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The President of the United States Asks God to Bless an Abortion Facto

  1. American View profile image60
    American Viewposted 3 years ago

    The President of the United States Asks God to Bless an Abortion Factory

    OBAMA:  Planned Parenthood is not going anywhere.  It's not going anywhere today. It's not going anywhere tomorrow.  (applause)  As long as we've got a fight to make sure women have access to quality affordable health care, and as long as we've got to fight to protect a woman's right to make her own choices about her own health, I want you to know that you've also got a president who's gonna be right there with you fighting every step of the way.  (cheers and applause)  Thank you, Planned Parenthood.  God bless you.  God bless America.  Thank you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … pm_giEdj0E

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/ … on_factory

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah,  Obama previously claimed that the abortion issue was "above his pay grade".
      Yet he's been paid in votes and political backing for his statements approving abortion.
      As far as Planned Parenthood,  they should get out of the abortion business.    They've always provided, yes, some affordable health care for women,  like contraceptives and etc.   
      But that 3% (if it IS only 3%)  of abortions is still too much.   Any percentage is too much.

      I think Obama's asking God to bless abortion, and asking Him to bless America, even, is waaaay above Obama's pay grade.   I cringe every time I've heard him ask God to bless America,  because he doesn't mean it  and is only doing it for political reasons.    If Obama really knew God,  he'd know that God isn't gonna keep blessing a Nation that kills its unborn for selfish reasons.

      1. teamrn profile image79
        teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Brenda, I caught that, too. In discussion on national TV AT THAT, as a candidate for US president, that lame excuse was given. WHY? Because taking a real stand and putting his real views out there would have alienated quite a few and the host/asker of that question was one of the most decidedly AGAINST abortion in the country and Obama didn't have to cajunes,and still lacks them, to stick up for his own beliefs, better yet to HAVE a belief of his own, not the polls. The preacher at Sadleback asked a simple question to which he received a FLIPPANT answer, clarified like this:

        "I will be a pro-life president and this presidency will have pro-life policies,” he said. “I have a 25-year pro-life record. That’s my commitment to you.” This was his response a few days later, when he had had the opportunity to think of the error of his ways and that it just might not win him the Christian conservative note.

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah,  his morals sway with the wind.
          Can't trust a word he says.

    2. Onusonus profile image87
      Onusonusposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      How very astonishing. Not surprising though. He said God Bless You to an organization that in 2011 performed 145 TIMES more abortions than adoption referrals and for decades knew about but deliberately ignored the butchery of Kermit Gosnell.
      I'm not sure what God the prez prays to, but the God most of us worship won’t be blessing the butchers at unplanned parenthood any time soon.

  2. Abecedarian profile image81
    Abecedarianposted 3 years ago

    Planned parenthood is not an abortion factory. It's a place for women with financial restraints and no not just those on welfare to get medical care. If it's a federal program that funds it, it's an abortion factory, but when it's a wealthy person who can afford to pay for private care for the exact same treatment, you never hear about their doctors being called abortion factories.

    1. American View profile image60
      American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I believe they said that about Dr. Kermit

      Medical care? Can one get a flu shot there?

      1. PrettyPanther profile image85
        PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/StandingArt/plannedparenthood.jpg?uuid=QJyyvGIBEeCV6ZMHpLzxXw

        1. American View profile image60
          American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          So the answer was no. According to your chart, they do screening like for cancer, but they do no actual cancer treatments.. Calling them a medical clinic is like calling the CHicken Ranch (Best Little Whorehouse in Texas) a church.

          Why is it when PP name is brought up being associated with abortions, they try to change the subject that the are a medical clinic providing medical care? Are you afraid to admit they do abortions? If so, why is that?.

          1. tsadjatko profile image78
            tsadjatkoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Why wouldn't Obama praise Planned Parenthood? As a state senator he voted three times to oppose a bill that would make infantacide illegal - if he is for infantacide (leaving a viable living baby from a botched abortion to die) why wouldn't he just love abortion? And for you people who think it is the mother's right to murder their baby in the womb for any frivolous reason, just think for  one minute...your mother could have prevented you from ever being born simply because if she were to birth you she might not be able to afford her flat screen TV. Yeah, maybe you wish you were never born? If you do , it's not your fault, it's your mother's.
            And a pie chart to demonstrate how little of PP's business is abortions is decieving as can be when you consider they perform over 300,000 abortions per year! That's well over 3 million in 10 years. Obama praised the Planned Parenthood Federation of America for saving lives and helping women and families in a 12-minute, 3-second speech on Friday, which was enough time for 7.6 abortions to take place at Planned Parenthood clinics, based upon the abortion data in their latest annual report.

          2. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            PP just correctly pointed out that Planned Parenthood does much more than abortions and in fact only a tiny percent of what they do comes down to that issue which there is significant division on but which most Americans support the right to.

            http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7934564_f248.jpg

            1. tsadjatko profile image78
              tsadjatkoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              So what you are saying  is that all the rest they do justifies murdering 300,000 babies in the womb per year...nice reasoning. That's what I call "hellthcare".

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Actually I think abortion is often immoral but an unremovable right which women have excersized from the earliest of times so I have no problem with an agency that aids that process being safer. Makes it neutral to me, then the rest makes it a big positive, you know the other 97% of what they do.

                Btw this is a zygote, the form at which most abortions are performed:

                http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7934587_f248.jpg

                This is a baby:


                http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7934589_f248.jpg

                Spot the difference

                1. tsadjatko profile image78
                  tsadjatkoposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah the difference is, you can't have this
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7934633_f248.jpg

                  without this.

                  http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7934587_f248.jpg,

                  moron!

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes and you can't have this :

                    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7934641_f248.jpg

                    without this:

                    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/7934642_f248.jpg

                    Does that mean when I burn wood I am burning a house?

                2. teamrn profile image79
                  teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Josak,

                  "Actually I think abortion is often immoral "so I have no problem with an agency that aids that process being safer" . If you feel that abortion is often immoral, that there are times when it IS acceptable? Who decides who is given that and who does NOT?

                  Don't you feel just a LITTLE miffed that your tax dollars go to someone/thing that you morally disagree with, but is the law?

                  1. Josak profile image60
                    Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    As I have expressed my personal view (which is that excepting rape and medical complication abortion is usually immoral) is irrelevant because I believe in the basic right to self determination, rights can only be removed when someone commits a crime and sex is not a crime. Making it unaffordable would be effectively be removing that freedom to self determination just as much as banning it.

                    However I think we should do everything we can to reduce abortions without restricting people's freedoms.

          3. PrettyPanther profile image85
            PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            No, I'm not afraid to admit they provide abortions to women who otherwise could not afford one.  I'm glad they do.  You asked about medical care, which is what I responded to.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Come on PP, you know that pesky little things like mammograms and pap smears are just something us girls do for fun.

              1. Josak profile image60
                Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Well put big_smile

              2. PrettyPanther profile image85
                PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                big_smile

              3. American View profile image60
                American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Mamagrams by Planned Parenthood, really? From PP website

                Where Can I Get a Mammogram?
                Ask your health care provider, health department, or staff at your local Planned Parenthood health center about where you can get a mammogram in your area.


                Seems all PP does is tell you where you can go get a mammogram, not perform on themselves. In October, 2012 PP released a statement admitting so.

                “In short, Planned Parenthood helps women nationwide get access to mammograms, as part of the range of health care Planned Parenthood health centers provide to nearly three million people a year. Planned Parenthood doctors and nurses do this like any other primary care provider or ob-gyn does,” it admits.

                “Women rely on Planned Parenthood for referrals,” the abortion business admits. “Planned Parenthood doctors and nurses refer patients to other facilities for mammograms.”

                Meanwhile, Factcheck.org confirms Planned Parenthood does not actually do mammograms


                http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/19/plan … or-women/.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  You realize that referrals for mammograms are important right? Also that Planned Parenthood does provide pap smears to find cancer.

                  1. teamrn profile image79
                    teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    More evidence that they REFER everything out. Our tax dollars pay for referrals? When ACA becomes fully in effect,  all will be covered, right? In that case, there will be no need for a referral place. See your PCP, after all, no charge to get that referral. People will be able to go to a PCP for free according to the ACA and get that referral. So, where's the plan to stop funding PP because referral services will no longer be necessary? THERE IS NO PLAN!

                  2. American View profile image60
                    American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Obviously referrals are important, but the statement was they PERFORMED mammograms which they do not. BTW when they admitted they do not do mammograms they also admitted they did not have personnel that were qualified to check for breast cancer. .

            2. American View profile image60
              American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              PP,

              I know why you responded, do you believe they give medical care, can you get a flu shot? the answer even provided in your chart, is no they do not. What they do is a misdirection as to their true reason to be in business, abortions. They and everyone who tries to defend them by claiming they are  medical clinic should just be honest about what they do and what their main focus is on. Look itis true they get grief for what they do, it is a hot and personal issue for people on both sides of the fence, but they would get less grief if they did not try to hide behind a false front of what they do. IMO

              1. PrettyPanther profile image85
                PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                So, their true reason to be in business is abortions, yet abortions comprise about 3% of their services.  Huh?

                Hiding behind a false front?  Being a nonprofit, they must provide a detailed accounting of what they do.  How are they hiding?  I see "abortion services" right there on that pie chart.

                1. teamrn profile image79
                  teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  How r they hiding? Do women's health, but no mammograms is one. Women's health, but no chemo for that breast tumor. AHA, you can get a REFERRAL for that mammogram.  In 2014, people will be able to get that referral for free under the ACA. Where  is the plan to defund PP? IMHO,the Federal government was established to GOVERN, not fund healthcare. It was created to GOVERN, not fund the arts. Both can be funded by private monies. Susan Sarandon and Barbra Streisand talk the talk; but when the rubber hits the road, have they stepped forward to fund PP, NEA? Or is it easier to let you and me who have NO money, continue to foot the bill? Of course, if I'm 'wrong, I'll admit it.  But please give all of us REFERENCED facts, not pie charts,

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image85
                    PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm confused.  If you have no money, how are you footing the bill?

                    As for the rest, I'm not sure what you're asking, but if you have questions about how Planned Parenthood operates you can look it up.

                2. American View profile image60
                  American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  According to their report, they performed 329,455 abortions which the chart you showed was 3% of their business. That would mean that they did over 100 million other services. That would equate to Planned Parenthood sees about 1/3 of the US population every year as patients. . Not bad for a group that does not practice medicine.

                  BTW, several years ago PP funding came under the spotlight. There was major talk about cutting off funding. That came as a result of an audit by the US GAO showing that PP used funds for abortions.. I just tried to find it on google but could not.

        2. teamrn profile image79
          teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          It seems to me, that in the absence of a 'yes' they do flu shots, they might well not. Although only 3% of their work is abortion, that is 3%. We know they don't do mammograms, it seems that they SCREEN 4 everything, but SPECIFICALLY, what do they do? I'm curious, CONVINCE me.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image85
            PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you're so curious, do the research.  I'm not a Planned Parenthood expert.

            1. American View profile image60
              American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Who submitted the chart. People are all gun-ho tossing stats and things they read trying to defend a position they take. When they get challenged to provide it out comes the "do your own research" card. .I think RN deserves an answer.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image85
                PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I provided the chart of my own free will in response to your comment about medical services.  If she wants to know more, she can find it herself.  I don't owe her anything.  She didn't "challenge" the data on the chart anyway; she asked a question about services.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  You owe me $5 for that thing I gave you that time.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image85
                    PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    smile

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Have no desire to convince you.  Have no need.

            Believe whatever you like. It isn't going to affect planned parenthood and it isn't going to affect me.

  3. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    This is cake batter.

    http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7934619_f248.jpg

    This is cake.

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7934628.jpg


    You can't get the latter without the former. Throw out one, you throw out the other.
    You may think curb appeal has to do with value, but it doesn't.

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I actually prefer cake batter tongue

  4. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago

    Good.

    If you want abortion to be illegal, go for it.

    Until it should be available to everyone, not just wealthy people.

  5. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 3 years ago

    ...PP and other similar groups also provide women information and referral on their options around pregnancy as well...planning around the pregnancy e.g.  raise the child, let someone else raise it, abortion...the woman considering the context of her life and the pregnancy, is then better able to make a choice for herself in most cases....in some cases women choose abortion....her choice...no one else should make that decision....the abortion piece is the service area is that is most disturbing to some people...however PP does not just deal with abortion options...these types of groups have a breadth of services...the word abortion alone makes some people focus only on that word and everything else appears to be 'white noise' to them....they can't see anything else unfortunately.

    1. American View profile image60
      American Viewposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yes they do offer choices, 329,455 abortions, 814 adoption referrals. We can see where they put their emphasis. ..

      1. SomewayOuttaHere profile image60
        SomewayOuttaHereposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        you've missed my point.....the women made the choice...not PP.  With your stats above, I wonder how many women
        a) opted to raise their own child and
        b) how many women opted to raise their own child only to find 'authorities' took the babe away as soon as it was born because 'authorities' made that decision for them

        It would be interesting to see those numbers as well.

        thanks.

  6. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    Yes, Obama is right. Planned Parenthood (Planned Extermination) is not going anywhere. As long as Black babies are heavily aborted in the inner cities, it has to stay.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Im so glad you brought that up. I held my tongue, but youre right.

      http://www.amazon.com/Killer-Angel-Biog … 1581821506

    2. teamrn profile image79
      teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Years ago, it was put to me RATHER crudely, that, 'until girls are taught to keep their legs together and boys are taught to keep their pants up, there will always be some unwanted pregnancies." How crude is that.  But, aptly put.

      Instead of dancing around the problem, this approach cuts to the chase. You were a teen, I was a teen, we've been there. What kept us out of harm's way (or at least me) was parental or authority figure guidance that certain things were NOT acceptable.

      By making it easy (except in cases of rape/incest/health of the mother), to have an abortion, it also makes the ANY progress we make getting to the root cause and need for an abortion , THAT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT, because there's always an out.

      So, go to PP to get your BC (WHICH YOUR PARENTS TOLD YOU ABOUT) but not the abortions they're handing out like candy.

      There are not always 'do-overs' as an adult; we grow out of that. If you want a do-over story, see "City Slickers" with Billy Crystal. Abortions should not be a
      'do-over" thing where you practice until you get it right. If we always get do-overs and passes, we begin to think the world GIVES them out and always OWES us something; and then, when it stops giving, and we have to work for what we want, we see things a bit more clearly.

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yet the very opposite is true, states that teach "until girls are taught to keep their legs together and boys are taught to keep their pants up, there will always be some unwanted pregnancies." (as in abstinence) have much higher unwanted pregnancy rates, the children of parents who recommend it have higher unwanted pregnancy rates and the children of Christian families (which more commonly teach that) have higher teenage pregnancy rates than non Christian families.

        1. teamrn profile image79
          teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Josak, it has NOTHING to do with Christian or non-Christian. It is impossible (except in cases of rape and incest) for their to be a pregnancy if there is abstinence. Teach children that actions (sex) have consequences( (a child) that there will be the need to care for the child for the rest of their lives, and the moral responsibility that it involves; and all of a sudden, sex becomes more than that wild, passionate irresponsible love-making. It is returned to the beautiful thing it should be.

  7. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Check this out... seriously. It's quite amazing.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … rgery.html

    The babies heart beats outside her chest. Inside or out, it's still a living, beating heart. It needs it's host to live. I don't know why the baby seems so unreal to ppl b/c it's on the inside. The mentality reminds me of 1400 where ppl thought the earth was flat.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image85
      PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I thought we were talking about zygotes?

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It's a comparison b/c Im not sure you understand the worth of a baby as it's being formed.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Do you understand the worth a woman who is already a fully formed adult?

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I am a woman. I have a mother, two grand mothers and two daughters. I have female friends and I have seen many Lifetime movies... Im pretty sure I get it. Do you get that many unborn babies are female? The male ones are pretty special too.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image85
              PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, babies.  But, again, a zygote is not a baby.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Well cause you say it, it must be true.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image85
                  PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you.  lol

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I tried the whole... "cake batter isn't a cake, but if you throw out the batter, you have no cake" argument, but you dismissed that so... we'll just go with denial.

  8. OliviaNB profile image61
    OliviaNBposted 3 years ago

    Planned Parenthood does so much more than just provided a safe abortion clinic.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Have you ever read up on the history of that sick organization?

      People (Eugenicists) started that. They were trying to wipe out the the criminally insane, the insane, Black people, poor people in general and Asians. Just because the name has changed and time has moved on does not mean that their agenda has changed.

      Planned Parenthood should be shut down immediately. Why don't I ever see the NAACP and LA RAZA boycotting Planned Parenthood?

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        A digression, but I've seen you argue many times that we can't judge Christianity by the Inquisition...  Either we can judge a group by their past or we can't...

        Which one?

        1. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Me?

  9. maxoxam41 profile image78
    maxoxam41posted 3 years ago

    It is a woman's right to dispose of her body. Who are we to judge her? If she decides to kill her unborn, it is her right.

    1. 60
      Lie Detectorposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      So you are ok with taking human life?

    2. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Sick.

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You can find it sick all you like but it doesn't make it any less true, if you respect basic freedoms to self determination you cannot FORCE people to give birth against their will, both ethically and practically.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You don't have to force ANYONE to give birth... as long as she keeps eating, that baby's going to grow and come out. Life is in motion. The only way to stop it is to kill the life inside her.

          Legally, she cannot take her own life, but yes, she can do that without me stopping her too, but I would still try to dissuade her b/c every life has value!

        2. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Unless someone FORCED them to have sex, they have a responsibility to the child growing inside them.
          Yes, it's a child.    It's amazing how many people claim to not know the facts of life.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Ah, the old "Sex is for procreation only" answer.

            I tried using it on my husband, he disagrees.

            Something about it being my biblical duty and some such... He's a religious nut case like that.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              lol... Im 44 and I could be pregnant right now. Ack! I swear I wasn't trying to pro create.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                My daughter was a result of an ear infection.  With all my wisdom, I didn't know that birth control pills had issues with antibiotics.  Go figure.

                My 8 month old was conceived while I was implanted with an IUD. 

                Um... congrats on the possibility of impregnation... er.. I hope.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I really would love another baby although I can't imagine being pregnant again. I thought maybe Id adopt. I don't think I am... just a possibility. Life's crazy. smile

            2. Marquis profile image60
              Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I like religious nut cases better than atheist nut cases.

    3. teamrn profile image79
      teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Maxomam, is taking the life of her unborn (the woman) really her right? Then you wouldn't disagree with those who feel that taking the life of convicted 3rd degree murderer is a state's right, then? That may seem way out of place in a discussion about PP, but I'm just responding to your comment.

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I object to capital punishment but not because I believe that the state does not have the right to take the life of a murderer but because it provides no deterrent at all, is costly and has the possibility of irretrievably executing innocent's (we already know of several people who have been put on death row and later found innocent).

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          So what is the baby guilty of? What is more innocent or vulnerable than a baby in it's mother's womb?

        2. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          It is more costly to keep people in prisons. Capital punishment saves tax payer's money.

          1. Josak profile image60
            Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Ah so wrong as usual

            In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
            (2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)
            In Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case.
            (Urban Institute, The Cost of the Death Penalty in Maryland, March 2008)
            In California the current system costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty.
            (California Commission for the Fair Administration of Justice, July 2008)

            In north Carolina an execution costs 2.16 million more than lifetime imprisonment.

            Executions are incredibly expensive due to the massive number of appeals and legal hurdles to them which seek to prevent innocent people from being executed.

  10. jenb0128 profile image94
    jenb0128posted 3 years ago

    I normally stay out of this issue (it gets way too emotional for me, from people on both sides), but I have to comment on those pictures. A fetus at 12 weeks is only about 2 inches long, so that pic can't be right. WebMD has a cool slideshow that shows the stages of development.
    http://www.webmd.com/baby/ss/slideshow- … evelopment

    1. 0
      SassySue1963posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Um I'm confused. Are you referring to the pictures I posted?

      If so, you'll notice the baby is being held between someone's index finger and thumb. It IS about 2 inches long, give or take.  But it is not a shapeless zygote.

  11. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    We must execute murderers as long as it is merely possible that their execution protects citizens from future murder. Remember that if you know someone who is murdered.

    1. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Just as lifetime incarceration does exactly the same.

      1. Marquis profile image60
        Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Josak, we should have a city to jail the worst criminals. Ever see Escape from New York. That type of incarceration would be grand.

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Seems pretty inefficient tongue

          1. Marquis profile image60
            Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Did you ever see Escape From New York?

    2. Zelkiiro profile image85
      Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds like you need to watch some Penn & Teller:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAUv2OTVm9M

      1. Marquis profile image60
        Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Why?

        1. Zelkiiro profile image85
          Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          It'll clear up some of your delusions about the death penalty actually being a deterrent of any kind, and entertain at the same time!

          1. Marquis profile image60
            Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Delusions? Yours?

          2. 60
            Lie Detectorposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            A deterrent can't be gauged especially by Penn and Teller.

            1. Marquis profile image60
              Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              That is right. Like I am going to listen to two atheist magicians.

          3. 0
            SassySue1963posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It's a deterrent for that particular killer though isn't it? No more killing innocent people for them.  Perhaps if our prisons were more like prisons and less like a cheap vacation hotel, complete with free cable tv, elective medical care (you know, taxpayers recently paid for a prisoner's sex change operation at a price tag of over $1 mil), free room and board, recreational activities etc. it might be a more effective deterrent in and of itself. That isn't the case though.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Except the data shows the exact opposite, the worse prisons are the worse people come out of them and the higher the crime rate, now for people who are serving consecutive life sentences and are never getting out I agree (those are a tiny proportion of inmates) but for people who will be released one day prisons need to be much better, nations that have instituted such programs have seen massive decreases in people being re-convicted after serving time.

              So the right answer is better prisons which don't harden criminals and further turn them to the criminal lifestyle but rather which give them opportunities for education and learning a profession.

              1. Marquis profile image60
                Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I have a solution for less prisons; More death sentences.
                For harden criminals, it will not be very hard to receive a swift death. They deserve it.

                I also have 1001 ways those criminals losers can die too.

              2. 0
                SassySue1963posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Actually, that is not factual in the least.
                The only country to have such resort prisons as you claim is Norway and it's only been in effect for around 2 years. Hardly enough time to say "oh look! This works! " Plus, the re-entry numbers are skewed because their laws do not punish repeat offenders with prison time as our laws do here. You cannot take such a small sample size anyway and deem it will be the same globally.

                1. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  First off the Norwegian prison experiment began with the opening of Bastoy as an open prison in 2000 so it has been thirteen years not two, as the program has been successful it has slowly been expanded and is expected to encompass almost half of the Norwegian prisons by the end of next year. It is completely usable as experimental data we are talking about a whole country not a small sample.

                  Even ignoring that however it's a trend repeated around the world, the tougher the prisons are the higher the recidivism rate, other Scandinavian nations have instituted similar if less extensive programs even earlier and had similarly positive results.

                  It really is a no brainer, put prisoners in a violent environment full of sexual abuse force them to stay there for several years and then unleash them on society and you can hardly help getting worse people than went in, on the other hand treat them with dignity protect them from violence and rape (one of the major things that Norwegian prisons have done is institute private showers) and educate them in a trade or profession and the people who come out are a lot less likely to end up right back in.

                  On the other hand the evidence for tougher prisons is "well it sounds better" or more accurately "the states with tougher prisons and harsher punishments in the US have higher crime rates".

                  Oh and longer prison terms equals more recidivism too:
                  http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/gendreau.pdf

                  1. 0
                    SassySue1963posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I was speaking on a large scale about how long it has been in practice. Again, the recidivism rates are skewed as well as the length of initial prison terms. The longest sentence in Norway is 21 years, even for murder. Plus, as I stated, where we send repeat offenders back to jail for lesser crimes, Norway does not. That sort of skews your recidivism rate greatly.

  12. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    Here's the question.

    How many abortions does Planned Parenthood prevent?

    Ask yourselves that.

    Every time a woman who cannot afford to raise a child uses proper contraception, you are preventing an abortion.

    PP's most used services are STD/cancer screenings and...contraception. The only women I've ever known go to PP went there to get a prescription for the pill.

    On the death penalty: I'm against the death penalty. And I DO know somebody who was murdered. I know somebody who was shot down in the home of her first husband's mother, along with that murder, in front of her children. I know the woman who is struggling to raise those children - who have PTSD and other problems as a result.

    I am STILL against the death penalty.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The death penalty should be in every state. Second, it should be telecasted. I want to see criminal punks get what they have coming. Ask yourself why crime is not really that bad in where Muslims dwell.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That's really messed up.

        1. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          lol

          It is not messed up. It is called "justice previals." You steal, you lose your hands, you rape, you lose a penis. I am like Hammurabi.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If the law states that a man should lose a life for taking a life, I will support that. And I have always thought a man should lose his weapon for rape, but you wanting to watch it is a bit perverted. It should not give anyone any sense of satisfaction to see another human being suffer. I don't care what they did. Even if you were the person he hurt, I would hope you would not allow their actions to fill you with that kind of darkness or they've had another victory.

            1. Marquis profile image60
              Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I want the filthy criminal to remember my face as the last one he sees before he goes to Hell. Nothing perverted about that.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I can barely see the line that separates you.

                1. Marquis profile image60
                  Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  So you want me to be nice?

                  I grew up around scum.

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I want you to increase in understanding.

                    There is compassion, forgiveness and simply not sinking to the deepest darkest level that will change your life, if not just your perspective. Wishing death on ppl is a dark road to go down. Im not trying to dissuade you from your right to support the death penalty, but allow the law to deal with their crimes, free yourself from dwelling on it. And for sure, don't revel in it.

      2. Zelkiiro profile image85
        Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Computers are illegal, so many criminals can just fake their identities and get away with it?

        1. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          What are you talking about now?

          1. Zelkiiro profile image85
            Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Crime becomes easier to detect and easier to quantify as technology increases, and Muslim-centric countries are infamous for being low-tech.

            You seriously need me to explain this?

            1. Marquis profile image60
              Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Muslim nations, to be low tech, have low crime. I am proud of the way they handle criminality. Maybe the U.S.A can learn from Islam on how to deal with evil people.

      3. teamrn profile image79
        teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Marquis, I'm in agreement with you there. There is talk that the death penalty is not that much of a deterrent. I think that is for several reasons. Condemned men/women know that it will be broadcast in some places, so those who get their 'jollies' on posters and lights and infamy will play to the crowd.

        Another reason that it doesn't serve to deter is that the wheels of our justice system turn so slowly and give more rights to criminals (I'M NOT SAYING THAT ALL MEANS POSSIBLE SHOULDN'T BE USED TO see if the accused is innocent).

        I agree that convicted felons should have to watch them. If I knew WHAT awaited me, I mean precisely what ("Green Mile" fashion), you'd best believe I'd think twice before I allowed someone else to glamorize a life of crime for me and push me to join a gang.

    2. teamrn profile image79
      teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      jennnifer, that question,"how many abortion s does PP prevent?" is silly and like trying to prove a negative. It's so much (and I tried to keep politics out of this) like President Obama justifying his anemic unemployment numbers by pointing out the number of JOBS SAVED.

      I didn't get farther in your post than that first line. Now. I'm off to read more. Will keep you posted.

      "Every time a woman who cannot afford to raise a child uses proper contraception, you are preventing an abortion." And how often does PP sit down in a room filled with cookies and doughnuts and coffee and conduct 1:1 sessions or even group sessions with truly, truly disadvantaged women to ;splain the B and B? How often to they reach out to the community to find women and girls and boys at risk and make it entirelly possible for them to benefit from that kind of service? I'd venture a whopping ZERO.

      instead they take the easy way out, 'say' they explain the options to a woman, and talk her in to signing on the dotted line before she can think about what she;s doing. Heck, they don't need to notify her parents so a life ends and noone's the wiser. if I'm incorrect in my thinking, all there needs to be is a rep from PP to say, that not the way it comes down, but we haven't heard them come to their own defense. The absence of ANY kind of defense speaks volumes.

      PP has really gone off course from the time of Margaret Sanger who was about BIRTH CONTROL Her methods were, eh, a bit strange and I question seriously, her state of mind. I mean saying that her only purpose in lfe is to control births.

  13. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    I do what I must to end the reign of criminals. What I would do is for the best for the community as a whole. The only way to eliminate crime and criminals is to be edgy and deal with it in the extreme. No more babying criminals. Make them pay with their screams and lives!

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Im done.

      1. Marquis profile image60
        Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Why?

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          cause you're either playing games, a total sicko, or completely obtuse and I don't know how to deal with any of those things... except maybe the gamer, but this isn't really the thread for that I spose.

          1. Marquis profile image60
            Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Why would I play games? I am being casual here. So that means I am young all of a sudden or a total socko or even obtuse? Nope, what is sick are doctors who perform abortions and terrorists who get special treatment after they have taken lives.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Ok, Im with you on that... dont like abortion, dont like terrorism... but its a bit of a stretch and taking joy from watching criminals die or participating in their death.

              1. Marquis profile image60
                Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Beth, it would help if you just got a feel for it. It is like pulling the trigger of a gun for the first time at target practice.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  stop talking

                  1. Marquis profile image60
                    Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    lol

          2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Memes are good.  Condescending can be fun.  Poking until you get a good facial froth and batman-like statements is always good for a laugh.

            Just some ideas.  Ignoring works too, but I lack entertainment today.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Its so hard to be a snarky Christian... you have to allow so many good comments to go by. lol

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I have no problem at all with it.

                God promised me he'd ignore my snarkiness and sarcasm if I promised not to run anyone over with my car.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  hahahaha

              2. Marquis profile image60
                Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I know. I once lost a girlfriend talking like this. She was a Jehovah's Witness. She could not deal with it either. But some people agree with me. if I ever ran for office, all criminals would be in trouble.

      2. teamrn profile image79
        teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Marquis make sense (which is why 'you're done!?'

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          The movies over. Everyone's dead. Good movie still.
          Have a good night. smile

          1. teamrn profile image79
            teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you haven't seen the play, rent it from Amazon, $3.99, to your 'puter' and crank on the sound. A treat, a real treat, the one with Alfie Boe, Nick Jonas (weak link), Ramin Karimloo, Norm Lewis, Lea Salonga; vocal heavyweights except for Nick Jonas.

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      http://s4.hubimg.com/u/7943179_f248.jpg

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        lol... I was literally just thinking captain america... yours was better cause it had the voice attached in my head.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
          MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          There seem to be lots of voices echoing in heads on the forums today.

          Did a pharmaceutical company go out of business somewhere?

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            lol... no I meant the low husky christian bale voice saying "Im Batman"

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
              MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I always hear Keaton.  I guess that pretty much gives away my age.

              I suppose it could be worse. It could be Adam West.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                hahahahaha... no, my first thought was keaton too, but you have to admit bale had it down. don't think I didn't watch the adam west reruns. I was 5. bam!

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Wow, I didn't watch the West Batmans until I was in my 30's.  But if you were watching them when you were 5, that means my parent's hadn't even met each other yet.

                  *ducks and runs*

                  1. 0
                    Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I think what I saw where the reruns... in the 70s? In your 30s huh? lol

                  2. Marquis profile image60
                    Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Bat Man was in syndication when I was little. So was other shows such as Leave It to Beaver, Green Acres, The Green Hornet and Star Trek.

                    Today, twenty years olds only rarely know of Bat Man with Adam West.

                2. teamrn profile image79
                  teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Wasn't Christian Bale great and quite a hunk. But Michael Keaton wasn't bad in that part. Like you, I might be 'dating' myself with that one!

          2. Marquis profile image60
            Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, I always thought that Adam West would make a good Comissioner Gordon.

        2. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Lol

          I was laughing too when I came up with the steamroller.
          I sort of knew bat man would be up next.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            dude, who are you? you have to be awfully young eh?

            1. Marquis profile image60
              Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Nope, just someone tired of criminals and related filth getting away with stuff.

  14. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    I know this girl who is 20 and she is VERY liberal. She is beautiful. She has heard a fraction of my views and is still trying to get her breath back.

    I guess I am nice at first until...

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      How did we slip into your dating life batman?

      1. Marquis profile image60
        Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I made the comment of my former Jehovah Witness girlfriend leaving me. She was shocked that I am not as forgiving as she was taught.

        I am known as The Ram. I never fall off the side of the mountain.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You'd be surprised how one little butt can make a ram tumble... yours has yet to come. God isn't finished with you yet.

          1. Marquis profile image60
            Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe -

            I am no ordinary ram. I am the Iron Ram.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              uh huh

              1. Marquis profile image60
                Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I am going to turn that into a movie.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Your ram thing or my "uh huh"?

                  1. Marquis profile image60
                    Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You know rams like to charge into things. I was once attacked by a ram.

  15. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    You don't think they deserve it.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I think that's in the hands of a judge a jury and our judicial system... I think forgiveness is an amazing thing and if you can't find it within you, you're in a dangerous place.

      1. Marquis profile image60
        Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It is hard. I forgive with a .45 in hand.

  16. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Did you see the movie Dead Man Walking. Forget about how well acted it was etc. The movie was kind of great. Its about (if I can remember the story correctly) a real life story of a man who (I think he was with others) raped and killed a woman brutally. He's on death row and a nun takes an interest in him. Grows to care for him as a human being. Finds there is good in him. They take this amazing journey thru the movie whilst he's still incarcerated, of course. The amazing thing is, as they show you he still has value, they never let you forget he's committed a heinous crime. And though they could have shown the crime scene at the beginning, letting you forget the horror of what he had done, they save it till the end when he's being executed so you can remember what he is dying for. It was a very good movie. You should check it out if you haven't already.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yes I did. I knew he was lying about not doing what he did. Violent rapists who all of a sudden become philosophers on life make me laugh. They are fools.
      I was very happy that he got the death penalty. He deserved it. I only wish that EVERY state had the death penalty.

      1. 0
        Brenda Durhamposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        As much as I hate the thought of anyone dying, even criminals who've committed such heinous crimes,  I agree with you that the death penalty is necessary.

        I did think that that movie was a good movie for the most part.   I was really into it until the very last scene where the camera pulled back and showed the crime victims' bodies in the shape of a cross (martyrs)  but also showed the killer's body the same way,  revealing that the movie's intent was to speak against the death penalty. 

           And while the young people who were killed were sinning (fornicating),  they were innocent as far as the story's focus was------in other words, the killer in the movie was the specific one who (by man's laws) deserved to die because he murdered people,  and they did not,  so he wasn't on an equal scale with them.    Our human justice system has a job to do.  And in rare cases,  the death penalty is part of that job.

        But the saving grace of the movie was that the nun was concerned about every soul, even the killer's soul.   So it has some merit amidst the political activism it portrays.....
        I didn't "get" the ending the first time I watched the movie years ago.   But a couple of months ago I watched it again and realized the political activism message it portrayed.   The Casey Anthony trial reminded me of the movie, kinda.   As she was being freed, her lawyer made a statement opposing the death penalty.   Seems he wasn't really trying to see justice done at all.  Of course, as her lawyer  he had to defend her.   But I think his focus was to be an activist for his cause.   And in the meantime, I believe he may have did a total injustice-----Casey wasn't convicted of killing her daughter, even accidentally!---she was freed with no justice forthcoming for the death of an innocent child.......
        That is the ultimate horror of situations where liberal activism takes over an individual case----it tries to do good, or claims to, but downplays the actual issue at hand so that justice cannot be served to protect the innocent.

        Same with the abortion issue.  Quite glaringly, actually.

  17. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    teamrn, you're missing Josak's point, which is not that abstinence is the best way to avoid pregnancy (it is), but that teenagers taught that abstinence is the ONLY way to avoid pregnancy are more likely to get pregnant.

    Abstinence-only sex education does not work because it goes against how teenagers are. If all you say is "don't have sex don't have sex don't have sex" teenagers will go try it, because teenagers ALWAYS do what adults say to not do. I sure as heck did quite a few things adults told me not to do when I was a teenager. Irresponsible sex was not one of them, but I did some pretty dumb things.

    Now, there ARE forms of abstinence-first sex education that do work, but the US is not using them. What worked on me was being introduced to women who had gotten pregnant whilst still in school and "oh man, look how far behind they are. I don't want that to be me." But I'm not sure that would work on other girls - or would it? Would it be helpful to have pregnant high school students talk to middle school students about how much of a struggle it is? Would any of those girls volunteer to do it?

    All I know is that just telling teenagers "Sex is immoral" simply does not work. Just telling them "It's stupid" won't work either. Their brains aren't finished yet and they don't have the same grasp of danger and consequences as full-grown adults.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It will work. Especially if you explain why waiting is important along with marriage, career, etc.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I see you're speaking with all your wits again.

        1. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          These people like to make up excuses.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Don't bunny trail. You're doing so well. lol

            1. Marquis profile image60
              Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              They are going to feel my wrath in a minute.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I thought that said *warmth at first... that would have been really awkward.

    2. teamrn profile image79
      teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      No, Jenniferpovey, I think you and Josak are missing my point. I'm not so naive as to think that if we just hammer 'SEX IS IMMORAL, SEX IS IMMORAL' into teens heads 1000 times, they'll buckle up.

      I believe, as do many: a goal of our society should be a minimum # of unwanted pregnancies. And parental responsibility BEGINS with that wild night of love-making that creates that child. THE RESPONSIBILITY STARTS THEN.

      It is the parent's responsibility to make sure the child go to school and lern right from wrong, It is the parent's responsibility to make sure they learn their ABCs and all the rest.  Even if the parents are dead tired and working 2 jobs, they are parents FIRST AND FOREMOST.

      There responsibility does not stop with the ABCs and ferrying the children to baseball and soccer practice. Even if they have to work 2 jobs to make family financial ends meet, they have a responsibility to teach their children. Why not teach them work ethic from that?

      There may not be time for much in today's busy world and kids give into peer pressure (heck, we were all teens and NEVER listened to our Ps). Too many times I see Moms and Dads dying to be their kids best friend and to be idolized by their kids. That can happen in the form of mutual respect and when the children RESPECT their parents and REALLY respect them, they listen to them.

      They need to be taught that from day #1 that there are reasons to respect Mom and Dad. Once children really in their souls make the mental shift to respect an authority figure, so much is different and they will understand (or die trying) what the authority figure has to say.

      The need to be taught from day one that when Mom says "IT'S WRONG." that it is wrong. If they don't understand her reasoning, IT IS WRONG BECAUSE SHE SAID IT IS WRONG. CAPICHE? Questions come as kids age, but at the end of the day, when Mom and Dad, teacher and coach, say IT'S WRONG,, the reason isn't to be questioned. That's a right children earn when they reach an age of majority. If it sounds like 'tough love, it is and needs to be for a few years.'

      I used the word parent a bit loose, because sometimes there is NO PARENT. There may be a school teacher, a coach, a minister, a neighbor. But one who will hold  a child accountable for his actions.

      Sure, there are bound to be kids who fall through the cracks,, there are kids born at a disadvantage, but have you not heard of rags to riches stories and people working themselves out of squalor? If we accept mediocrity  (aka abortion) as the easy answer, the end -game; than we get what we ask for.

      And if  we accept as 'ok' that EVERYONE will fall through the cracks and accept the lowest common denominator as the norm, and don't expect anything of each other, we'll continue to get what we don't want: abortion on demand. We asked for it; we got it..

      We've all heard the saying, "IF YOU AIM AT NOTHING, YOU'LL HIT IT EVERYTIME." Is that what we want for out society. I happen to think Americans are better than that.

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Wow.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Independent, nuanced thinking not allowed.  That explains a lot.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I've always been curious whether the "Do as I say, even if you don't know why, because I said so." approach works on ANY child.

            The next question is always "Would I really want a child that follows obscure, meaningless orders blindly?"

            I know the answer to the second question is no, so I've never tried the approach.

            1. 0
              SassySue1963posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I don't think it comes down to teaching right or wrong. It comes down to teaching responsibility and consequences.

              You tell your child not to stick things in electrical sockets. You tell them (simplified naturally for age) because it will electrocute them.  Consequences.

              Your child picks up a piece of candy at the dollar store which you discover when you arrive at the car. You take them back in and make them apologize and return it (or pay for it if they receive an allowance). Responsibility.

              Any choice has consequences and there comes a responsibility with any choice. These are the things that need to be taught.

              Instead we teach them quick fixes and make them take no responsibility for their actions.

              Sure it isn't true of all cases, but I see it more and more.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I agree with all of that smile

                I am also not above scaring the crap out of my (older) kids by explaining in great detail and sometimes with pictures the natural consequences of their behaviors.

                My 16 year old (now 19) got a very in-depth and illustrated lesson on sexually transmitted diseases.  I don't think he walks into a public restroom without a condom on now. 

                My opinions on the matter were irrelevant.  What I'm going to do to them is very rarely a motivation to my kids.  What the world is going to do to them?  Yep, that matters.

                "Because I said so."  has always been an indication to me that parents are randomly choosing rules.

            2. PrettyPanther profile image85
              PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I know it wouldn't have worked for me as a child and I'm thankful I had parents who treated me like a person with my own mind and my own will.  I've tried to do the same with my kids.

  18. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    No, Marquis, it *doesn't* work. That's the thing. People would very much like it to work, but it doesn't.

    Abstinence only does not work.
    Virginity pledges do not work.
    The statistics, not me, say it does not work.

    Comprehensive sex education works much, much better. I'm all for telling teenagers it's better to wait and all for discouraging them from having sex, but most abstinence-only programs boil down to
    "It's Wrong To Have Sex Before Marriage."
    "Why?"
    "It's Wrong."

    We also tell teenagers it's wrong to drink before you're 21 (or whatever the age is where you are). In 2010, 71% of high school teenagers had tried alcohol. (It's actually down quite a bit, but it's still pretty dang high).

    1. teamrn profile image79
      teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Of course they don't work. We place too little in the expectation department that they ARE going to work and we expect so little of our teens who are able to give us so much. Americans should be ashamed of allowing teens to  settle  for the lowest common denominator when they're young. Then, in there 20's they've been there, done that and nothing is special anymore, nothing is sacred anymore. We're shooting ourselves in the foot by having these short term fixes.

  19. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    It worked for my mother.
    It worked for my father.
    It worked for me.

    And countless others I know. I know a woman who just got married. Before she did, she finish college, got a career and married a man with a similar career. They can afford children now because each make 55k annually.

    It works. You just have to know HOW TO TALK TO THEM AND EXPLAIN WHY WAITING IS IMPORTANT.

  20. Marquis profile image60
    Marquisposted 3 years ago

    Enough of the silly excuses.
    Only Liberal nonsense does not work.

  21. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    Then you got a proper explanation. Or were different from most kids.

    And try again on liberal nonsense. Please peruse this:

    http://www.livescience.com/27417-teen-p … state.html

    Highest rates of teenaged pregnancy: Conservative states.
    Lowest rates: Liberal states.

    Okay, that's a generalization - Utah also has a low rate, as do both Dakotas (But the Dakotas are kinda weird with their very low population anyway) - but it's a very real generalization. Liberal states that offer comprehensive sex education have lower teen pregnancy rates than conservative ones with abstinence only. Now, agreed, those states could just be Doing It Wrong.

    On the other hand both teen pregnancy and abortion rates ARE in steady decline. Why? Contraceptives. Face facts. Some teenagers are going to have sex, and you'll do a better job of preventing pregnancies by handing out condoms than shaking your head disapprovingly.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I am not opening up any links.

      NOPE!

      How do I know it does not lead to some malicious bug or something?

    2. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Liberal states have run-away abortions, high out-of-wedlock rates too. Wow, and they call themselves progressives.

    3. teamrn profile image79
      teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      " Utah also has a low rate" Yes, Utah does. Utah is largely Mormon and Mormons may BELIEVE in polygamy, but few practice it. My hairdresser, almost 30 had never slept with her fiancé, never slept with anyone and now it's beautiful to watch as she is pregnant and the desire for her child and to have a family with her husband grows gy the days, IInn't that what it should be?

  22. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    Why would I send anyone to a malware site?

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db46_tables.pdf

    That's slightly older, but it's .gov. If you won't check that then I'll know the real reason is that you're too lazy and/or don't want to face reality.

    I also pre-armed myself with this, assuming somebody would try to say I was using a liberal source:

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/02/2 … y-rate-is/

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      lol
      You make me laugh Jennifer.  If things were practiced right, none of that would be so high. People learn self-control, things would be better. There would be no excuses.

      There ARE no excuses. You sound like one of my friends that I warned NOT to have sex with some chick he met on My Space. The idiot is complaining after 2 years. I warned him.

  23. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    Oh, agreed.

    The problem with abstinence-only sex education as currently practiced is two-fold. First of all, they often give no argument other than "it's wrong." Second of all, they claim contraceptives don't work, which means that when those kids DO have sex - they don't use condoms, greatly increasing their risk of pregnancy and STDs.

    Now, to be fair, contraceptives are not 100%. However, they are 99% better than prayer as a contraceptive method (and don't even go to the rhythm method, which is incredibly hard to do right).

    The statistics I linked were nothing more or less than evidence that this kind of "sex education" doesn't work and may even be worse than no sex education at all.

    Things that do work?

    Telling kids they'll end up falling behind in school and poor might work - for some kids. Assessing which kids? Schools can't do that. They have too many kids. These kinds of messages need to come from parents.

    Making sure young people have better things to do with their time. I just talked to a friend who grew up in one of those dormitory suburbs with nothing to do. The teen pregnancy rate was extremely high - until they reopened the bowling alley. At which point it dropped 80%. Okay, this is anecdotal evidence (but so is you saying that being told to keep your legs closed worked for you, so I figure we're even on that). A lot of the high rates are rural states (although not the Dakotas) and I do wonder if they're highest in small towns where most of the businesses have closed and there really isn't much for teenagers to DO. Could a proper youth community center or similar help?

    Contraceptives DO work to lower teenaged pregnancies (and thus teenaged abortions). I personally think the approach should be "Look, at your age, you shouldn't be having sex, but if you absolutely have to, then use a condom - or I'll have no sympathy if something bad happens." tongue

    I know a lot of conservatives don't like contraceptive use because they think it encourages kids to have sex, but I don't think there's any real evidence of that. Teenagers have high hormones and a low sense of responsibility. You aren't going to stop all of them.

    Good parenting, of course, always goes a long way.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Well when YMCAs and YWCAs were open, things were different. I can't even fine one that exist in the city anywhere. I guess getting rid of Christian messages is one reason behind eliminating the Christian organizations.

      Listen, all you have to do ie explain WHY and what will happen. Show them the hardships, the venereal diseases etc. It works when people put will power into it. If you do not, it won't work.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        There is one in every town where I live... more like country clubs then the old gyms they used to be. You couldn't find any YMCA's? Or did I misunderstand?

        1. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          In Ann Arbor, there isn't a single YMCA or YWCA. I see two Salvation Army organizations housed where 2 YMCAs used to be.

          That is all.

    2. 60
      Lie Detectorposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree that telling kids today that premarital sex is wrong wont work. after all they have been told all of their lives that their wants and needs trump any moral or decent behavior.

      1. Marquis profile image60
        Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yes and that animalistic approach to life is so sad.

      2. teamrn profile image79
        teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        ". after all they have been told all of their lives that their wants and needs trump any moral or decent behavior." Who the heck told them that? Their liberal, love child, Dharma's Mom's kind of parents?

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Oh my, you do know that teen pregnancy rates are higher in red states, right?

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It's a republican plot to increase their constituency.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image85
              PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              As with most Republican plots, it is inherently flawed and doesn't work.  lol

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Eh, politics are evil across the board. wink

              2. teamrn profile image79
                teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Republican 'PLOTS?' Complete with burial grounds, I'm sure. Please elaborate...

        2. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I am a liberal and here is what I've told my kids (the abbreviated version).

          Sex, even casual sex, cannot completely be separated from emotion.

          It is best to wait until one is emotionally "ready" to have sex.  I believe teenagers are not mature enough to handle a sexual relationship; you undoubtedly have friends who will tell you otherwise.  You will experience a lot of pressure to have sex before you are ready.  You are the person in control of your own body and mind and only you can make the right decision about your life.  Do not let others pressure you into doing something you don't want to do.  If your boyfriend/girlfriend is pressuring you, it is for their own selfish reasons.  You might consider whether that is a person you want to be with.

          If or when you decide to become sexually active, use birth control.  I will help you get it.  While I might not agree that you are ready, I am a realist and would rather you not add unwanted pregnancy to your list of life mistakes.  We all make mistakes, but we can minimize the risks associated with them.

          If you ever have a question, problem, or are in a scary situation, talk to me.  I will do my best not to judge you and I will help you through it.

          This is how I handled it with my kids and I have quite a few friends (yes, liberal friends) who did the same.  And, guess what, no teen pregnancies among any of us. 

          I didn't even bring morality into the discussion.  Instead, the discussion is about making good decisions for your own well being and the well being of others, with an acknowledgment that even the best of us make stupid decisions sometimes.  And, we must live with the consequences of our decisions, good and bad.

          1. teamrn profile image79
            teamrnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            That first sentence is flawed, "Sex, even casual sex, cannot completely be separated from emotion."

            What is casual sex if it is not sex devoid of emotion, but just  going through the 'motions for animalistic pleasure? I'm not saying that in judgement of others, as I went around the block a few times when I was young. Was that wrong" Yes. I'll now grant you that.

            As far as waiting until one is emotionally ready to have sex, that's a tough call; I wouldn't deny the 35 year old woman the right to have sex until she meets Mr. Knight in Shining Armor, but having made that choice, his armor won't be so shiny if she does give in. However, if she chooses to have sex, who am I to say that her mature choice is WRONG?"

            1. PrettyPanther profile image85
              PrettyPantherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't have casual sex with someone I dislike or am not attracted to, so to me, that involves emotion on some level.  Also, I wouldn't "give in"; I would choose of my own free will.  Lastly, a woman viewing a man as "Mr. Knight in Shining Armor" is rather, ahem, old-fashioned and will undoubtedly result in disappointment, but even so, simply having sex with Mr. Knight won't necessarily dull his armor unless of course he is lousy in bed in which case it's probably good that she found out sooner rather than later.

              It is unrealistic and simplistic to think that just because you tell your teenager that sex outside of marriage is wrong that they will not do it.  Look at you; you did it, even though you said you think it is wrong.

  24. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    I wasn't aware that there was a decline in YMCAs.

    I'm not Christian, but I'm in favor of anything which gives teenagers something to do. Only way to keep them out of trouble, to be honest. Community centers, bowling alleys, laser tag arenas...

    And maybe it does, Marquis. Maybe the schools are just doing it wrong. Maybe it's another symptom of how dis-engaged many parents seem to be these days?

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I remember when we use to go to the YMCA on Saturdays. It kept a lot of teens out of trouble.

      I stop seeing YMCAs around the late 1980s.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        where are you from originally?

        1. Marquis profile image60
          Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Detroit

  25. Wayne Brown profile image85
    Wayne Brownposted 3 years ago

    Planned Parenthood should be a function of the name that it sports...instead, it is just the opposite.  If the government is to use taxpayer funds to support anything relative to birth, it should be related to counseling potential new parents on parenthood duties and responsibilities or focused on the adoption process to find these unwanted children new homes with loving parents.  The president has remarked regarding gun control that "if he can save just one child's life, then it is worth it".  Here, we have the lives of potentially thousands of children being destroyed each year with the assistance of the American taxpayer.  If we want abortion legal....fine, if a woman wants an abortion...fine, if Planned Parenthood wants to keep supplying abortions...fine, but stop doing it with American taxpayer money...it's disgusting, and to use the president words, "if by stopping federal subsidies we can save just one child's life, it will be worth it".  ~WB

    1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, I'm an American tax payer and I have absolutely no problem with my taxes going to fund abortions.  I do have a problem with them going to fund tax exempt churches. 

      The point being that as a tax payer you will always have something to disagree with about how your dollars are spent because no one will ever agree 100 percent with the government budget.

      My solution...  There is a very nice bridge built recently on a road that I use often.  It had one of those signs saying how much it cost.  I will never pay that amount of taxes in my life.  So for the rest of my life I consider my taxes as paying for that bridge.

      It gets the tree out of my ass about having to pay for idiots to build a new church, tax free, that could easily house 10 homeless families.

    2. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Wayne, it is ironic. They had to fool people. They could not call themselves American Eugenics Society anymore. When the Civil Rights Era was taking full swing, American Eugenics Society had to change its feathers. The New Left were not really racists or into eugenics.

      It was very clever for those elite members in the American Eugenics Society to use the New Left's agenda to push their extermination of the poor and minorities. Even leftist environmentalists agreed with the extermination of people.

      The clever tag lines here was "too many people" and "reproduction rights."

  26. SmartAndFun profile image91
    SmartAndFunposted 3 years ago

    If it weren't for Planned Parenthood, I probably would have had an abortion when I was a teen.

    1. Marquis profile image60
      Marquisposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      That is too bad.

  27. jenniferrpovey profile image95
    jenniferrpoveyposted 3 years ago

    From teamrn:

    The need to be taught from day one that when Mom says "IT'S WRONG." that it is wrong. If they don't understand her reasoning, IT IS WRONG BECAUSE SHE SAID IT IS WRONG. CAPICHE? Questions come as kids age, but at the end of the day, when Mom and Dad, teacher and coach, say IT'S WRONG,, the reason isn't to be questioned. That's a right children earn when they reach an age of majority. If it sounds like 'tough love, it is and needs to be for a few years.'

    So.

    You want to train your children that they are to do whatever they are told by any authority figure.

    Way to make your children into victims of the next coach, teacher, or boss who is a bully.

    What if the coach is telling them to beat an animal? What if the coach is getting them to haze the newest member of the team? What if the teacher is encouraging them to laugh at the disabled kid in the class? But oh, COACH said it, so it's fine! TEACHER said it, so it's moral.

    Furthermore, a child raised to follow orders from authority figures...when do they learn to think through the consequences of their actions? (A study in England indicated that teenage pregnancies could be reduced by making teenagers list reasons to and not to have sex - it works because it makes them THINK about the issue).

    I feel sorry for your kids.

  28. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago

    http://s3.hubimg.com/u/7963342_f248.jpg

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      lol So true.

 
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