jump to last post 1-5 of 5 discussions (23 posts)

The hunt for Edward Snowden!

  1. maxoxam41 profile image79
    maxoxam41posted 3 years ago

    It could be the new Tom Clancy's novel but it is not. Snowden protected by China is still travelling to the land of the free. Who ever thought that it would be everywhere else but home? Home sweet home is now the country of domestic and international spying professionalism as well as domestic and international terrorism. We were pointing fingers at China for its cybersurveillance but now we are "discovering" that we are the criminals! We were against the presence on our market of Huawei not because of its so-called spying potential but because we don't like REAL competition. But it is for us to invade their market.
    Facing this logic, good luck to you Snowden! I read that you are aiming at Venezuela? Good choice!
    Your opinion?

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      As far as I am concerned he is a hero. The government went to great extents to hide the details of their NSA activities with regards to listening in on our phone calls and reading our emails. They are plain p#@@ed that they got caught. There used to be a time when whistle blowers were protected for exposing government waste and corruption. But when the government itself is called for its actions they are all about "get the snitch".

      1. maxoxam41 profile image79
        maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It depended on which whistleblower it was. Ellsberg in the 70's was seen as atraitor by the government not by the people. However today, people like Quilligrapher on our platform sees him as a traitor, go figure. Isn't he opening our eyes, Quilligrapher's eyes on the wrongdoings of our government, what's their logic? Aren't they part of the people?

        1. Quilligrapher profile image90
          Quilligrapherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Touché. I see that you have now decided to target me personally over your dissatifaction with the US government. When accusing me, the very least you could do is to include a link to my statements.

          As for your question: “What’s their logic?” I can only answer for myself. My logic, like many of my opinions, are based upon facts and facts, you have shown us, are not very important when you accuse the government of wrongdoing. Rather than defending the government, I find myself just correcting posts containing errors, distortions, and falsehoods.   

          When discussing whistleblowers, two factual distinctions need to be established. The law protects one type of whistleblower, who exposes important conditions and/or situations in both industry and government, from discrimination and retaliation. On the other hand, the law requires another type of whistleblower, one who breaks the law in the process, to face criminal charges regardless of the motive.

          Ellsberg surrendered to the US Attorney’s office in Boston in 1971 and issued a statement acknowledging his guilt and his willingness to take full legal responsibility for his actions. He said at the time “I did this clearly at my own jeopardy and I am prepared to answer to all the consequences of this decision” {1} He was tried in 1973. No verdict was reached because all charges were dismissed on technical grounds that included misconduct by the government. The judge ruled “The totality of the circumstances of this case which I have only briefly sketched offend a sense of justice. The bizarre events have incurably infected the prosecution of this case.” {2}

          Like Ellsberg in 1971, Edward Snowden is a whistleblower that has been charged with crimes. His guilt or innocence, along with the validity of his motives, should be determined by due process of the law. While he also admits to his guilt, instead of defending his actions in court, in the same way that Ellsberg did 40 years ago, he fled to Hong Kong. This is a distinctive difference between the two cases.

          I have never posted a comment about Mr. Snowden before today nor have I ever said I considered Mr. Ellsberg or Mr. Snowden to be a traitor. However, I am forced to deal with two posts that falsely claim that I have.

          Maxa44oxam wrote:
          “Plenty of people on this platform are considering him as a traitor (quilligrapher for instance).” {3}

          Maxa44oxam wrote:
          “People like Quilligrapher on our platform sees him as a traitor.” {4}

          Fact: Before today, I have never made any statement, not one, not here, not anywhere else, about Mr. Snowden or his case.

          Fact: I have never said that I consider Mr. Ellsberg to be a traitor. However, you once said “If Manning is a traitor, so is Ellsberg!” {5}

          I appreciate your participation in this forum, Max. I hope you do not mind my pointing out your frequent errors, false statements, and distortions.
          http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
          {1} http://www.upi.com/Audio/Year_in_Review … 09436546-7
          {2} http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01165.html
          {3} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113944#post2425242
          {4} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113944#post2425886
          {5} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113325#post2411652

          1. maxoxam41 profile image79
            maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Yes you did. Snowden, Manning are traitors to your eyes. You wrote in a forum and I opposed you that Manning was guilty. You accepted blindly the fact that he was charged based only upon what the army said and logically Snowden will be charged upon what the NSA will say. May I remind you that the NSA is spying on us and they DARE charging him on "spying" ground. It is a joke.
            NSA work for us, officially. Therefore he is accountable to us, the people.
            As for Ellsberg, the trial was with the New York Times. They won on the ground that the documents were public records.
            Which whistleblower was not charged as if we were a democracy?

            1. Quilligrapher profile image90
              Quilligrapherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Hello, Max.

              Correcting your errors could turn out to be a full time career. You are making another false statement when you say, “You accepted blindly the fact that he  [Manning] was charged based only upon what the army said.”

              Please look back and verify that this is what I actually said…
              “Pfc. Manning entered a plea of guilty to 10 of the charges thereby accepting punishment without objection and with no prior agreement to limit the ultimate sentences determined by the court martial.” {1} This is not blindly accepting what the Army said. This is saying Pfc. Manning admitted he was guilty of 10 of the 21 charges against him.

              Maxo44oxam wrote:
              “and logically Snowden will be charged upon what the NSA will say. May I remind you that the NSA is spying on us and they DARE charging him on ‘spying’ ground. It is a joke.”

              Mr. Snowden has been charged with violating espionage laws and I do not believe that he thinks it is a joke. The NSA is not listening to my telephone calls nor are they reading my emails. I suspect this is true for you too unless you are suspected of being a threat to this country.

              Maxo44oxam wrote:
              “As for Ellsberg, the trial was with the New York Times. They won on the ground that the documents were public records.
              Which whistleblower was not charged as if we were a democracy?”

              In three sentences there are three false claims. First, the USA is not a democracy! The USA is a republic.

              Second, there never was a trial for the New York Times. A federal judge ordered the Times to temporarily halt the publication of the Pentagon Papers. The matter ended when the Supreme Court ruled six to three that the first amendment guarantee of a free press outweighed the government's claim to potential harm to national security. {2}

              Three, Ellsberg admitted his guilt and along with co-defendant, Anthony J. Russo Jr., he was tried on 12 federal criminal counts, including conspiracy, theft of government property and espionage. No verdict was ever reached because all charges were dismissed when the presiding judge declared a mistrial because of government misconduct. {3}
              http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
              {1} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113325#post2411938
              {2} http://www.upi.com/Audio/Year_in_Review … 09436546-7
              {3} http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01165.html

              1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Which idiot facing the pressure of the army won't plead guilty? Don't lawyers advise their clients to plead guilty in favor of a lesser charge? Does it mean they are guilty? Obviously not. Don't play with me, you will loose, because you are WRONG to the eyes of the real American not the eyes of the complicit "patriot" American!
                Sure, you are the exception to the rule, aren't you? People like you are dangerous to the thinkers, because they assume that they are not a threat to their government, they are out of reach. We are pro-western, we are pro-government. Like the soldiers. You know where they are either fighting, either in the ground. Is this our governmental loyalty? But when poverty will reach our land, when it will personally strike, we will on which side they will put you, in the FEMA camp or in their offices? You know the answer.
                Iran is a republic too, what did you mean then?
                Do you have knowledge of your own, meaning you need the internet to counterargument?

                1. Quilligrapher profile image90
                  Quilligrapherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I shall repeat once more for those having trouble with English.

                  Facing 21 charges before a court martial, “Pfc. Manning entered a plea of guilty to 10 of the charges thereby accepting punishment without objection and with no prior agreement to limit the ultimate sentences determined by the court martial.” {1}
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
                  {1} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113325#post2411938

                  1. maxoxam41 profile image79
                    maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Whatever you will repeat it doesn't make him guilty to the eyes of society. To the eye of the private company that the army thinks it is, it is betrayal therefore punishable with the highest sentence. However the army seems to forget that it is accountable to us, the US citizen, therefore we should be the one to act in that matter. Where are we? That is the real question. The people versus the army should be in the records not Manning versus the army.

  2. Zelkiiro profile image85
    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/999255_10151667919072726_833280539_n.jpg

    1. maxoxam41 profile image79
      maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It definitely doesn't make sense, he is charged for being a spy. What are we waiting for charging our government to spy on us as well? A real circus! This country has become a real circus! The real American is hunted down and the real criminals are out of reach!

      1. psycheskinner profile image82
        psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        He is being charged with treason.

        1. maxoxam41 profile image79
          maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Treason? By doing what? We should charged them.

          1. psycheskinner profile image82
            psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I'm not the one laying charges, but the deal with civil disobedience is that you break laws.  Then you tend to get charged with stuff.

  3. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    The fascist world state is being constructed, has been for decades.  Actually, since before WWII these plans were being devised.  Just because some fascists were defeated for attempting to monopolize control, does not stop the implementation.  The global elite are working together very well on sharing the control among themselves.  It is those that refuse to submit.  Who insist on retaining freedom.  It is those that are going to be demonized.  AS THEY ARE!

    It is a f'kd up situation when I completely agree with the president and his policy opinions.  But I do.  Putin is one of the only men in the world that is making sense right now.  WTF!!!!

    Doublespeak in full effect.  Up is down.  Evil is good.  Murder is security.  War is peace.

    Really, if you cannot see it, wake the fudge up!!!!!

    1. maxoxam41 profile image79
      maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Good point here reality bites. The awakening will be harsh. Plenty of people on this platform are considering him as a traitor (quilligrapher for instance). Why Ellsberg was a hero and why is Snowden a traitor? Did we change that much in few decades? I regret the seventies (I was a kid) where people were more critical than today.
      We are sheep.

  4. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    Wake Up Call 2013 Obama DHS Prepares For Civil War!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmpyJb_Atq4

    1. Silverspeeder profile image61
      Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      No wonder the US government wants gun controls, wont be long before they want citizens to have no weapons at all.
      And we thought we had it bad here in the EU.

    2. maxoxam41 profile image79
      maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      This documentary makes sense. Scary.

  5. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    Snowden documents could be 'worst nightmare' for U.S

    Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist who first published the documents Snowden leaked, said in a newspaper interview published on Saturday that the U.S. government should be careful in its pursuit of the former computer analyst.

    "Snowden has enough information to cause harm to the U.S. government in a single minute than any other person has ever had," Greenwald said in an interview in Rio de Janeiro with the Argentinean daily La Nacion.

    "The U.S. government should be on its knees every day begging that nothing happen to Snowden, because if something does happen to him, all the information will be revealed and it could be its worst nightmare."
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/ … 8Q20130713

    Hmmm?  What cards could he be holding?

    1. maxoxam41 profile image79
      maxoxam41posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly. What does he know that we don't (obviously) and that could explode on their faces? Manning was sentenced guilty, Snowden was more intelligent since he disposes a weapon (to divulge secrets) against those criminals.

 
working