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Liberal thinkers cause another death.

  1. Silverspeeder profile image60
    Silverspeederposted 4 years ago via iphone

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olice.html

    Should we really be letting killers out on day release, innocent people die because liberal thinkers believe scum like this can be rehabilitated.

    1. profile image57
      Lie Detectorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I would say that letting a killer out on a day pass is not a good idea but then I use a good deal of common sense.

      1. Silverspeeder profile image60
        Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … olice.html

        Apparently it wasn't the first time he had done it.

        People who say killers like this can be rehabilitated need their heads looking at or locking up.

    2. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      1st degree murderers, particularly multiple time murderers should not be released, obviously.

      Equally obviously that is not a pro capital punishment argument, it's not hard to keep people in jail, it's cheaper than executing them and if evidence does appear that we got it wrong then we can release them.

      1. Silverspeeder profile image60
        Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        But they didn't get it wrong Josak, they got it very wrong and it resulted in the death of two more people.
        How anyone can say its cheaper to keep a prisoner in jail for 30 or more years at £40k a year than removing them from society forever is beyond me. Maybe that's it liberals just don't think straight.

        1. Josak profile image60
          Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          As I said should not have been released.

          No that is a simple fact, I know conservatives struggle with those. The extra legal requirements, appeals, security etc. that is required for a death sentence equals a much higher cost than imprisonment. Here in the US it costs an average of 45% more to sentence someone to death and execute them than to simply jail them for their whole life. In some states up to 300% more.

          Sorry about the facts and stuff, and sorry you can't be bothered to learn them. I guess since you apparently have no interest in doing so you will just continue to be completely wrong on this very consistent basis.

          http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

          The other terrifying thing of course is that more than 10% of the people sentenced to death in the US since 1976 have had their sentences commuted or been released on the basis of new evidence, particularly DNA evidence.
          Making it a statistical near certainty that we have executed innocent people.

          1. Silverspeeder profile image60
            Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The American justice system. Based on how much money you have rather than if you did it or not.
            Not exactly a shining example of justice is it Josak?
            And I have searched the internet, public libraries and even spoke to my MP about the facts about wrongful convictions and none can tell me how many there are or have been here in the UK, there are of course the obvious ones but when you count them against the actual crimes its less than you anti death penalty exponents keep harping on about.
            Maybe its about time the justice system changed, maybe it about time it now started protecting society rather than the criminals and maybe we should be getting rid of people like Huntley and West where the evidence was overwhelming. Some say people like Huntley will never be released but with the way the justice system and politicians and their liberal ideas are heading you never quite know.

            1. Josak profile image60
              Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              If you can prove your system is better than the American one that would be interesting to read. Our system is far from perfect, it is also the best funded in the world and has the same rules (largely) as yours, it is still far too unreliable.

              I seriously doubt the UK system is so much more accurate. Even a 1% mistake rate where execution is concerned is way too much

              Also the cost which you never addressed. So double fail.

              1. psycheskinner profile image81
                psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That is probably why the UK does not have the death penalty.  So one can safely say they are not erroneously executing anyone there.

              2. Silverspeeder profile image60
                Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                But Josak I said £40k a year and you forgot the numerous appeals that those in prison for thirty years or more mount anyway, here in the UK we have a situation where not only our own courts can be appealed to but the EU courts can be appealed to anyway. so you forgot that either those on death row and those not can mount an appeal against their sentence.
                Plus cost should be immaterial when it comes to the safety of society.

                1. John Holden profile image59
                  John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  But I thought your argument was that execution would be cheaper than keeping somebody locked up for life with all the attendant appeals!!

                  I do however agree that cost should never be a consideration in justice.

                  And have you not considered that the early release of dangerous criminals isn't down to the "soft" left but rather the hard right who believe in locking more and more people up for more and more petty crimes resulting in  some prisoners having to be released early to make room for those who haven't paid their fines for not having a TV license.

                  1. Silverspeeder profile image60
                    Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    My argument John is some prisoners can never be rehabilitated and but they still release them because the liberal thinkers believe its best,
                    I wasn't the one to mention cost anyway, I couldn't care less about the cost I am more concerned about killers roaming our streets.
                    Labour are not lefties, pull the other one John, they may not be your ideal socialists but they are still controlled by the left and the unions even if Milliband is trying to blag us into believing they are not.

                2. Josak profile image60
                  Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  No it's all accounted for, people who have a death sentence need to be given more appeals, they also have more grounds to appeal on (cruelty of execution method etc.) anyway it's all included in the calculation it's much more expensive to execute.

                  The protection of society is firmly a cost issue, if it wasn't we would have police every three meters and nothing bad would ever happen without a policeman present. Having someone locked keeps society just as safe as killing them without the risk of killing an innocent man and a t a chepercost thus it is mathematically superior.

                  1. Silverspeeder profile image60
                    Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    surely the risk of killing an innocent man has diminished quite a lot in the 21st century with all the evidence from DNA and CCTV amongst other things or is it still down to how good the lawyers are?

    3. Don W profile image81
      Don Wposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If you can show a comparison between the number of people who are released early from prison who don't re-offend compared to those that do, broken down by type of crime they were convicted for, then you may have a case. Otherwise this is just a red herring.

      1. Silverspeeder profile image60
        Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        This man has taken 3 lives already so how many more would he have to take before your point was invalid? Or do we just keep telling the victims families that their loved one doesn't count, only the killer counts because he is still alive.

        1. John Holden profile image59
          John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Answer the question.

          1. Silverspeeder profile image60
            Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … d-analysis

            There you go, take a look for yourselves.

            1. John Holden profile image59
              John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well I read the whole thing and didn't notice any figures for re-offending murderers.

  2. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 4 years ago

    Makes a good case for capital punishment, doesn't it?

    1. Silverspeeder profile image60
      Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      To many do gooders worrying about the rights of the criminal.
      Have you ever realised how the liberal prison reformers never talk about the victims and always refer to the criminals as victims.
      Criminals love a liberal society.

      1. John Holden profile image59
        John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        [sarcasm]
        Of course our judicial system is full of liberals!

        [/sarcasm]

        1. Silverspeeder profile image60
          Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          (sarcasm)
          Still don't know the difference between  liberal and a liberal then John?

          1. John Holden profile image59
            John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Well, actually I do, it's you who seems somewhat confused.

            Liberal, as used in the UK, refers to right wingers. A liberal is generally one with liberal views.

            Really I suppose I should be happy that you do in fact realise that right wingers are cocking it up (again)

            1. Silverspeeder profile image60
              Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Cocking what up John? How could they cock up a system that is already cocked up by the left leaning liberals?

              Liberals are right wing, sure right John. that like saying the socialist workers party are leftist terrorists then.

              1. John Holden profile image59
                John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You disagree that liberals are right wing despite them sitting comfortably with the conservatives in government!

                1. Silverspeeder profile image60
                  Silverspeederposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You obviously haven't read their policy document John. Again its a matter of opinion isn't it.
                  So if the liberals had done a deal with Brown and sat with the Labour party they would have been considered lefties then John?

                  1. John Holden profile image59
                    John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Considering that the Labour party is no longer left wing, no they wouldn't be considered lefties.

      2. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That must be why "liberal" societies have fewer of them. Wait... that doesn't make any sense. Nope just the usual bashing your head against the actual facts with dumb emotional arguments.

  3. Wayne Brown profile image88
    Wayne Brownposted 4 years ago

    The irony here is that the same people who feel this way have led the charge to assume that George Zimmerman is guilty before he ever had his due process in the court system.  Now that he has and the ruling is not in their favor, they are still beating the drum for his punishment in the public forum.  The liberal mind cooks up a lot of perspectives which when dissected are total hogwash.  Sure, let's put George Zimmerman into prison for a crime that we cannot prove and then beat the drum for his rehab back into humanity.

    1. John Holden profile image59
      John Holdenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      II didn't realise that Zimmerman was a Brit!

    2. profile image57
      Lie Detectorposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What is interesting on this site is all of the "lawyers" who have come up with alternate theories as to what happened in the Zimmerman case after the case was heard and decided. The constant "he aint inncent just cuz he wuz found not guilty".

      Yes, he is innocent because he was found not guilty!

      You didn't get the verdict you wanted so you will whine and complain until you get your way.

      You're not getting your way!

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        So someone doesn't understand what happened at all. No a jury does not decide is someone is guilty they decide whether enough evidence was provided by the prosecution at trial to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty. That is undeniably a different thing.

  4. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 4 years ago

    Let's hope Zimmerman never kills again

 
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