In November the United Nations General Assembly voted by a landslide majority to proclaim 2014 as a 'International Year of Solidarity with the Palestinian People'.
Will this be a major 'tipping point' in helping to end Israel's illegal occupation of the Occupied Palestinian Territories or is it just symbolic? What do you think?
It is written: "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you," says God in the bible. God is for Israel, the people there are His chosen people, and all others will falter--maybe not now, but someday. The Palestinian people and their false god Allah (really Satan), need to get out!
Go to Religious section, do not pass go!! This is politics, no Voodoo here thank you.
What you forget is first it is a VERY small country and secondly it is full of nuclear heads. How long do you think it will take to pulverize the whole country? Your government was not smart enough, was it? It jeopardizes all the Zionists.
A toothless self serving organisations proclamation will do nothing to ease the suffering of the people of both sides who just want to live their lives.
I wouldn't say that solidarity does nothing but the UN is made toothless by the US veto. Otherwise International law would prevail.
The US is not the only one to use its veto.
To absolve Israeli crimes the USA has used the veto an incredibile amount of times in defiance of the rest of the world.
As I said its not only the US. I am not aware of how many times they have used it and what their reason for using it was.
What would you have the UN do? Take away all veto's? Or just the US ones!
I would have the USA respect the law and human rights and stop the Israelis from continuing their illegal acts.
Blaming one side or the other is part of the problem and whilst the political tennis continues the game will never be over.
International law is on one side, The Palestinians. The law doesn't blame , it judges the evidence. The state of Israel is guilty of a multitude of breaches of the law and human rights.
And the Palestinians are guilty of nothing I suppose.
This is the point I was trying to make, blaming one side for everything will not provide a solution for the future.
In recent years the Palestinians have shown incredible restraint despite their land being stolen and thousands slaughtered. The vast majority of their actions have been non-violent resistance against their occupiers and besiegers. Israel was guilty of ethnic cleansing and terror in the Nakba of 1948, they have illegally occupied the West Bank in a brutal military occupation for over 46 years and have besieged Gaza in a collective civilian punishment for 7 years. These are the roots of the problem, these are war crimes. The onus is on Israel and the USA to end these crimes and give the Palestinians their land back.
The land belongs to all of them, if the politics of extremism could be removed then the solution would be simple. The people of this region lived together in reasonable tolerance before all this separatist elitism came about.
As I said blaming one side or the other will not engage the people to live together in peace.
There will be no peace without justice Silverspeeder. But I agree that the land should belong to all. A secular single state would be the ideal but the Israelis impose Apartheid and steal land. The starting point is imposing International Law including the rules of the Geneva Convention and returning the West Bank to its legal owners. i.e. the Palestinians
The starting point would be to declare the land the ownership of the people, all the people, Palestinian or Israeli, Muslim, Jew, Christian or atheist. Then enforce the law that backs it up.
The UN will never be able to sort it out as they were the real instigators of the problem in the first place.
Shinkicker ,They will never do that.They are secretly loving it.
Israel never does anything illegal, you anti-American anti-Christian monster! ISRAEL WOULD NEVER COMMIT A CRIME BECAUSE ISRAEL IS GOD'S #2 COUNTRY BEHIND 'MURICA!!
SEE TEAM ISRAEL HAS NO RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE GOD HAS NO RESTRICTIONS
I don't know if you are being ironic or are genuinely gloating about Israel's high murder rate of Palestinians.
You forgot to mention the World civilians who were murdered I repeat MURDERED on the flatila taking medical aid to palestine.
Murdered is a legal term, not something you can choose to apply wherever you please. Nor does repeating the term make it true - it usually indicates that the speaker is spinning like a top.
Were they murdered under the laws of the flotilla blocking the seas? Or just some other country that wants to spin it into something it isn't?
Boat stormed in international waters, people shot dead, some at point blank range, maybe not murder but perhaps mass murder. Along with the thousands of dead Palestinians before and since.
Are you using the definition of murder from the country producing the flotilla or your own definition?
Sounds a bit like Munich 1972.
The Palestinian factions have been murdering each other for years too.
Yes the Israeli power mongers are bad boys but the Palestinian ones aren't no saints either.
Fascists pigs carrying guns and boarding a boat then killing old people is in most NORMAL peoples mind Murder
Gotcha. Calling them childish names makes it murder. Well thought out response.
The IDF and Israeli state forces have a history of mass murder, torture, child imprisonment and casual brutality. It's beyond argument now. Even their own soldiers have publicly admitted their crimes.
Link, please, to a soldier confessing guilt to a mass murder under Israeli law?
I'm sure it IS beyond argument - as long as you get to define the terms and choose which data to look at.
I didn't say they had admitted mass murder, but they have admitted crimes. International Law which overrides Israeli law must be respected. We must all abide by the Geneva Convention for example, we must all respect UN Resolutions because they represent all of us.
I see. You will forgive me for assuming a reference to mass murder followed by a statement that soldiers had admitted to crimes meant they had admitted to mass murders. Although I do think that was the intent of the statement, and a fine attempt at spin, I can fully understand why you cannot back it up.
As far as soldiers (in general) admitting crimes - few have led an exemplary life. Speeding, perhaps, or drunk in public. The US has seen many of their soldiers committing deplorable acts in time of war; there is no reason to think any other army is free from such actions. Rare, but they DO exist - soldiers are not angels and have faults like the rest of us.
Absolutely, all nations put international law over and above their own. Which planet did you say you are from?
Because there are actually very few UN resolutions that represent me or any other Americans at all and typical adherence to either UN resolutions or International Law happens only when convenient to the nation or peoples involved. Even the Geneva Convention is ignored at will - remember the Kurds of Iraq? And more recently, Syria?
Of course I cannot back up something that I never actually claimed in the first place.
The IDF actions are state organised all the way to government level. Witness the appalling slaughter in Gaza in 2008/09. State sanctioned terror against a civilian population.
Yes, the Geneva Convention was ignored at will by Iraq under Saddam and now by Syria under Assad. That's the kind of company the Israeli govt keeps. Civilised nations work otherwise.
Right. We all accept human rights violations inside our borders, defined by someone else, to be wrong and so immediately stop them. You can tell because no civilized nations are ever accused of such activities.
All nations always buckle to requests/demands of the UN. It's why a handful have veto power, after all - so they can willingly accept those demands.
You accused Jandee of childish comments, now your doing the same with pointless sarcasm.
The tide of opinion is slowly turning against Israel, the UN decision to proclaim 2014 as 'International Year of Solidarity' with the Palestinian people follows the UN recognition of Palestinian as an observer state in 2012.
You should support these positive initiatives as steps forward .
It was never in doubt that the UN would make them an observer state, after all the UN created the Palestinians..
The opinion amongst normal people is that the state (government) of Israel are a bunch of Zionist bastards. But nobody likes a terrorist either and the Palestinian governments have aligned themselves to any group of terrorists that hates Israel or just plain hates the Jews.
Whilst the UN is advocating all over the world a mixing of people and cultures its doing its best to separate the Jews and the Arabs in an area where they lived together for thousands of years.
Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين Filasṭīn, Falasṭīn, Filisṭīn; Greek: Παλαιστίνη, Palaistinē; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: פלשתינה Palestina) is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories. The name was used by Ancient Greek writers, and was later used for the Roman province Syria Palaestina, the Byzantine Palaestina Prima and the Umayyad and Abbasid province of Jund Filastin. The region is also known as the Land of Israel (Hebrew: ארץ־ישראל Eretz-Yisra'el), the Holy Land, the Southern Levant, Cisjordan, and historically has been known by other names including Canaan, Southern Syria and Jerusalem.
Situated at a strategic location between Egypt, Syria and Arabia, and the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity, the region has a long and tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics. The region has been controlled by numerous different peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians.
By the very definition above even the Jews are Palestinians.
Yes, the tide is turning (and turned in my mind some years ago).
But what has that got to do with the statement that started this entire "sub-thread" ("civilians who were murdered I repeat MURDERED")? The one with the false claim that civilians were murdered even when the legal definition does not and did not include murder? The statement with the gross exaggeration and spin? I do admit here that I have a hard time when people substitute emotional appeals, spin and claims for hard facts, and exaggerations of this type are a prime example.
Finally, if you want solidarity, check the mini thread from a year ago, http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/107472#post2289117 , and my responses there (you were there, too).
For you information the said flotila where the murders took place was sailing in international waters and that was when the Peace Activists were murdered by the Israelis,understand!
You mean the people running the legal blockade set up to protect the Israeli nation. Those "activists"? The ones carrying arms to the killers of Israeli people? The ones that resisted legal requirements to submit to search?
Well, I'm sure they were all convicted under Israeli law, the law they were legally operating under.
You don't get it do you? You are not the one to define the legal term "murder" for the whole world.
For your information Munich is in Germany and that's where the murders of a few athletes were murdered by the PLO understand.
Many atrocities have happened on both sides but dwelling on them and seeking revenge for them will never create a solution to the problem.
Agreed Silverspeeder. But the ongoing issues still exist. Israel occupies another people's land under a brutal military occupation. They are also conducting apartheid policies and are refusing to stop their illegal settlement building.
Hmm. As I recall, a "victors agreement", kind of like a UN resolution, placed the Israeli people there. The same kind of thing you are saying we need to all follow.
The Israelis were given that land and now you demand they give it back. Would you if you were Jewish?
Palestinians are so far down the pecking order they will never see any justice, I am afraid.
It seems so Will but John Pilger said 'Palestine is Still the Issue'. He was absolutely right.
The treatment of the Palestinians has been and still is the major issue in the Middle-East. It causes outrage in the Arab world and our govts in the West support the criminlnality of Israel, so we become the target of anger and hatred. It's the duty of ordinary people across the world to make the politicians listen. People power will change that pecking order.
Wilderness you say "The Israelis were given that land and now you demand they give it back."
The Israelis were not given the West Bank, East Jerusalem or the Golan. They stole them by conquest. This is the politics of the Medieval Age, modern democratic societies do not take land by force and rule by oppression.
That's right, they took it off the Jordanians and I do believe the "Palestinians" were Jordanian citizens at the time. How the hell did the Jordanians get it I wonder? I notice the Palestinians weren't moaning too much then.
This war the "Palestinians" have with Israel is more about removing the Jews from the region than it is about land, they couldn't live with the Jews because Allah has forbid it, just ask the Hamas masters..
The UN is a cesspit of self interest little governments looking for more power.
Let's not forget the UN was set up to bring about a new world order, one world government, led by the antichrist who wants to give everybody an RFID tag and cut people's heads off,,,,,,,argh LOL.
Palestinians have no war with Israel. They are resisting an illegal occupation and fighting for their rights which are enshrined in law but not enforced. The Arabs lived with the Jewish population before the Zionist invasion of their land in the 1st half of the 20th century. And currently over 1.5 million Arabs live peacefully in Israel despite the discrimination they suffer.
Excellent article by Prof Richard Falk of Princeton University.
http://mwcnews.net/focus/analysis/34929 … inian.html
"We can hope at the dawn of 2014 that the UN will be vigorous in giving the International Year of Solidarity with the Palestinian People a political meaning that goes beyond words of empathy and support. There is an opportunity to do more. The UN resolution calls for working with civil society. Recent moves in America to join boycotts of Israeli academic institutions and in Europe to hold corporations responsible under international law for dealing commercially with Israeli settlements are major successes of civil society activism, being led by the BDS Campaign that has the important legitimating virtue of Palestinian leadership and backing. The UN can help build a momentum in the global solidarity movement that encourages nonviolent militant forms of coercive action that alone will give ‘solidarity’ a good name.
Palestinians are starting to win the Legitimacy War that is being waged against unlawful Israeli policies and on behalf of the attainment of Palestinian rights. The turning point in world public opinion can probably be traced back to the way Israel waged the Lebanon War of 1982, especially the avowed reliance on disproportionate force directed at residential neighborhoods, especially in south Beirut, a tactic that became known as the Dahiya Doctrine. The tipping point in shifting the Israeli collective identity from that of victims and heroic underdogs to those lawless perpetrators of oppressive warfare against a totally vulnerable people came in Operation Cast Lead, the sustained assault with high technology weaponry on the people of Gaza for three weeks at the end of 2008. After these developments, the Palestinians were understood more widely to be a victimized people, engaged in a just struggle to gain their rights under international law, and needing and deserving an international movement of support to offset the Israeli hard power and geopolitical dominance. " (Prof Falk)
The Carpenter----on the other side-
"I can't go into Israel " he said,when asked why ,he replied "what if my house is no longer there?" He produced his wallet and took from it his key. "This is the key to my home ",he said, "I locked the door when I left in 1948."
An excerpt from John Pilgers book- Heroes
John Pilger is the antidote to easy ,comfortable thinking,to smugness,to ignorance. Daily Telegraph
As I said sectarianism instigated by the UN. The Arab carpenter didn't want to live with is Jewish neighbours.
There are no doubt lots of personal stories from the people, Pilger was a journalist, a very good one but he wrote what he saw and that's it.
My friend Ruth (Jew) lived in Isreal from birth until 10yrs ago when some of her family were killed by Palestinian terrorists, she still hasn't come to terms with it, she was married to a Palestinian man, a big no no as you can imagine. I asked her if she will ever return and she answered, "return to what?" "There will never be peace in Israel because the governments don't want it and the people have come to hate each other because of religion and politics."
Many stories............No solution.
The carpenter had no choice,he was ejected. Many times he asked the israeli authorities for permission to return-----He visited his old house and the new 'owner' said to him "There is no reason we cannot live together,I am sorry I don't know what else to do?" He had aquired the house through the custodian of properties,the Israeli department which expropriates Arab homes and Businesses. "There is no reason"replied the carpenter!
John Pilger -Heroes
South Africa managed to change without massive bloodshed or civil war. It's not a perfect country and has many tensions and problems but its transformation from apartheid and fascism to democracy has been remarkable. Its people co-exist.
Israel can do the same.
I am in agreement Shinkicker.
Maybe part of the solution would be for the UN to declare it one country one people.
Will they declare it one religion as well? To be Muslim is to believe the Jewish faith? Will they declare that all the people love their neighbor?
The UN can make any declarations they wish to, but that isn't going to change the hate inside those people.
Are you suggesting that it is impossible for different faiths to co-exist?
I'm not only suggesting but claiming with zero doubt that a UN resolution to that effect will NOT result in two faiths becoming one any more than such a resolution will result in peaceful coexistence.
Certainly people can co-exist, but a group of Christians telling a group of Muslims to happily live with a group of Jews just isn't going to cut it. Or the Muslims among the UN telling the Jews to play nice with the Muslims of Palestine.
Or are you suggesting that such a declaration from the UN WILL work?
Religion is a red herring. Muslims and Jews would have no problem getting along in a country where both groups had decent life opportunities.
I live in a city that is a quarter Muslim, quarter Chinese Traditional religion and half Buddhist. Since none of these groups is out to freeze any other group out of their land, or an education or a job there are no serious issues between them. Neighborliness reigns.
You need to look at the real issues if you want a just solution in Israel. Religion is just one of many group identifiers.
Muslims and orthodox Jews agree upon the fact that the Israelis shouldn't have a land. Only Zionists are preying over its neighborhood. Extremist Muslims like the Takfirists agreed with the Zionists when it came to attack and kill children in Syria, didn't they? Again, religion is not the preponderant factor in the problem. It is only a matter of common interests.
Its not the Zionists killing children in Syria at the moment is it Max?
Maybe the Israelis shouldn't have a land but there was no such thing as a Palestinian until the UN declared them as such, there were Jews and Arabs who lived in the area, an area that has been called many things since the dawn of man.
If I recall well Israel attacked Syria. If I recall well Israel is united with Saudi Arabia to send criminals to kill Syrian children. Israel NEVER do anything but is always involved, why? Orthodox Jews refuse Israel as their state. The bible itself said that Moses led the Jews to Palestine. And where were those Jews when it came to fight during the crusades? Only Christians and Muslims were on the battle field, bled, died. Where was the good and "chosen" Jew???? Wandering, RIGHT?
I thought you knew a lot about the region Max?
The Jews fought with the Muslims in the first crusades to repel the Christian invaders, the Jews single-handedly defended Haifa against the Christian crusaders in 1099. Haifa being one of 50 Jewish communities left after the fall of the Jewish state a thousand years before.
You are unmasked. A jew defending Israel that is to say what could be more biased than that? What about Jews buying passes to leave Palestine? Never heard about it or you consciously obliterated it? Or Israelis refuting Schlomo Sand's research asserting that the Jewish people don't exist. It was created. It is only a religion. At a certain point in history there were Christians too, according to your logic, it should belong to Italy.
Before Hitler, the Jews were scattered everywhere without land trying to fit with their environment. If few of them fought don't you think that it responded to the same logic? To fit like they did in Europe. But definitely not because it was their land.
Before Hitler which side would you sit on, we certainly know which side you sit on now.
There are many references to the Jews being in the region well before the name Palestinian was uttered. Even the name Israel was uttered on Merneptah stele in around 1200BC.
maybe its you who should go to your books Max and I don't mean the Koran either.
There were no Palestinians until the UN decided to call them that, they were just Arabs and Jews living in Palestine.
Ignorance is bliss. Awareness brings change.
Before I was ingurgitating what the media wanted me to swallow. Then I realized why is it only the Jewish history that we have to remember. I am not a Jew. Why is it a worldwide monopoly? Is it because of the existence of an international lobby? Why is it that most western countries count a large number of Jews in the highest sphere of power? Media?...
If we trace your gene where do you think they will locate your ancestry? English are from England (I won't count royalty bastardise). Russians, Russia.
And to justify your inexistence as a race as a people, in Eastern Europe you are ashkheNazi and in Northern Africa you are sepharadi? Can I sample your bloods and find a common land that will give you the appearance of legitimacy?
What was Philistine, then? Maybe the translation of our deaf ears?
Don't bring the Koran. But it is your Zionist brothers that financially and logistically support them! You see no ethics. You just want to fit.
You wish I were a Muslim, it would simplify your photography of me. Unfortunately for you, I am an Atheist but foremost EDUCATED. You can't inform me. The disinformation is OVER!
It was Philistine meaning Palestine. Go to your books. The Jews were there as they were/are anywhere else. Again where were those Jews that dare say that it is their country during the crusades?
The Jewish people and the Muslim Arabs coexisted for many many years until Zionism began to forcibly encroach into Palestine.
I believe the first Arab revolt was in the 1930's followed by Zionist terrorism in the 1940's. A problem created by the British for which their troops paid heavily up to 1948.
Will the people change the hate inside you ? That is the question!
Israelis are not cut out for power sharing.
A poll in Haaretz, one of Israel's most prestigious newspapers last year, found that around 40 per cent want to see the West Bank annexed and most felt Israel should practice some kind of apartheid.
'Two-thirds (of Israelis) say Palestinians should not be allowed to vote if West Bank was annexed, while three in four favour segregated roads'
'58% believe Israel already practices apartheid against Palestinians, the poll found.'
Brief report in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/o … d-policies
You will need to register to get the original story:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/ap … m-1.471650
"Israelis are not cut out for power sharing."
Neither where the whites in South Africa!
That's true Silverspeeder so I remain optimistic.
But Will's quoted figures just prove the siege mentality and radicalism of many of the Israeli people. Many of the illegal squatters in the West Bank are even more extreme. The country seems to be heading slowly towards Fascism rather than true Democracy.
The parallels with Apartheid South Africa are becoming even more compelling. Israelis are being openly racist to black minorities too.
Clearly it's because they're inferior to *:･ﾟ✧God's Chosen People✧*:･ﾟ.
Isn't that what the Muslims say about the Jews too?
I seem to remember watching a BBC documentary where a "Palestinian" man said all Jews should be annihilated because they were an abomination.
Racism comes from all sides, segregating people will never stop racism.
I noticed the comments on the Youtube post were disabled, I wonder why that was?
Absoulutely true Silverspeeder I totally agree with you. But where do you see this kind of racist Israeli footage on national TV?
Many members of the public are informed about extremism among Arabs but not this racist and ultra-nationalist aggression in Israel.
The Youtube comments would have been disabled because Zionist trolls would have posted too much abuse and state-employed Hasbara writers would have written lies and propaganda.
It is symbolic. Unless the UN changed its majority. Ruled by the US indeed. At the beginning of the week Israel attacked Lebanon, why did the UN say anything? Israel launched a raid over Palestine and people died, why didn't it take radical measures? No, they blah-blah and that's it.
Yes, the US veto neuters any UN action on helping the Palestinians.
But don't forget that UNRWA does a massive amount of work to sustain their communities, so it's not all talk. Of course the Palestinians wouldn't need international aid if they were free to run their own economy.
It may be symbolic but I think it is a great message to send to the world.
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