Do you support US intervention in Ukraine?

1. 61

   sannyasinmanposted 10 years ago

   There has been a coup d'etat in Ukraine with the democratically elected president deposed. This illegitimate goverment has now been invited to Washington . . . US military jets have flown to Poland in a show of "solidarity".
   Despite what you see on CNN, Russia has not invaded Ukraine.
   
   http://rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air/
   
   RT America broadcasts from its studio in Washington, DC. Tune in to watch news reports, features and talk shows with a totally different perspective from mainstream American television. We report on the other side of the story, not making any conclusions, but raising the unanswered questions.

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   1. 88

      GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That's right, don't believe your lying eyes. Don't believe those faked "live" images of Russian soldiers guarding access points, turning away International observers. Believe Russia Today, (RT.com) because they only speak the truth.
      
      And don't believe their Washington D.C. anchorwoman that resigned on-air because of the propaganda that Russia Today was broadcasting concerning the Russian invasion of Crimea!.
      
      Yep, we can trust Russia Today for the truth.
      
      GA

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      1. 61

         CHRIS57posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         If you compare skills from people having lived on the east side of the iron curtain in cold war times to those people living in the west, something very interesting comes to daylight.
         While the eastern people knew they were living in an information world that was completely deformed by propaganda, the western people were illuded to believe they received free and unbiased information. Of course western media is also full of deformation. But western people have no sense to  detect and sort out the junk mail.
         So, don´t believe all what western and US media is publishing. They are not necessarily all crooks in the Kremlin. And they are not necessarily all saints in Kiew, especially if you look at the pravye sector ultra nationalists who teamed up with the current people in power.
         But anyway this is all happening 8 timezones away from the US east coast. What leads the US administration to intervene and add to destabilization?  It is irresponsible.

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         1. 88

            GA Andersonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            You make a good point about Western media also being biased - at times almost a tool. And that too many Westerners believe what they see and hear from the media. Hopefully I am not wrong believing I am not one of that group.
            
            But touting Russia Today with regards to Russia's actions in the Crimea... Really? Was that Washington anchorwoman's resignation and explanation just more Western propaganda too?
            
            GA

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            1. 71

               rhamsonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               The Cold War is alive and well in Ukraine. The propaganda emanating from this area is hard to believe on both sides. Is America destabilizing a country to have it enter the European Union and shame Russia or vice versa? It is hard to say as America has been involved in so many other coup-de-tats over the years the story has some legs. But without proof (remember WMD's) what is the US to do? Let them figure it out for themselves. If we are wrong "they" figure it out. If we are right "they" figure it out. Bottom line is that it is none of our business. If it comes to light that the US was involved then shame on us and we shall strike up another wondrous tale of failed US Foreign Policy gone awry.

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            2. 61

               CHRIS57posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Read, listen, watch Russian, Ukrainian media - and of course western media and use your own common sense. Sometimes it helps if you just compare between media of what is not said, not what is recapitulated from third sources.
               
               For a long time, Russia, all of the former Soviet Union were not in the limelight of history. Kind of dull, nothing really happening worth reading in the morning paper somewhere in the Midwest. Who cared that some oligarch was in prison, that Kazakhstan has a new capital and that Lukashenko suppresses his people in Belarus.
               This has impact on the quality of western journalism reporting from those countries.  Not much first hand investigative journalism and in todays crisis this takes its toll.
               Too bad most Americans don´t speak any Slavic language. They never get a chance to get an unbiased picture. For example there are plenty of smartphone videos on youtube from various incidents of the Ukrainian crisis. Some are biased, some are propaganda, some are unintentially unravelling very disturbing facts.
               For that Russia Today lady, who cares. I can draw my conclusions without reference to dramatic live shows. For the RT News channel, it is remakebly unbiased when it comes to  international stories, it is very biased when it is about Russian issues.

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      2. 0

         mbuggiehposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly!
         
         I know that human memory is short---particularly for things that are not immediate in our own lives, but I must say that I am very surprised at just how short the collective memory seems to be about the thing that was the Soviet Union; the thing that was this empire that consumed much of once independent and sovereign eastern Europe in the wake of World War II.
         
         I am appalled at the level of support for Putin and the willful refusal of his supporters to open their eyes and see what he is doing.

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         1. 61

            sannyasinmanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            One mainstream newspapers headline read: ”Russia stations 16’000 troops in Ukraine”. Absolutely true, but what they omitted to mention is that there is along-standing arrangement between Russia and Ukraine for military and naval bases, and these troops have been there for years and have nothing to do with the current Ukraine situation. Source www.RT.com
            
            CNN also showed pictures of Russian tanks on the streets with the caption “Sebastopol, Ukraine”. www.RT.com later showed exactly the same photograph. It had been taken many months ago in mainland Russia and had absolutely nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. Just more lies and propaganda from the mainstream media, presented as truth so as to shape public opinion.

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2. 64

   maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

   No, I don't believe that we are supporting them since we triggered the whole operation. Ukraine is key to our destabilization of Russia. Since the former democratically president refused to enter the EU (where would be the point if not to be controlled by the US), we judge necessary to intervene military by authorizing our THUGS (neo-Nazis at the head of the new "government" since most of them were mercenaries) to overthrow our type of democracy (ramping corruption, which democracy isn't corrupt?).
   The Russians busy with Sotchi didn't realize that we would attack Ukraine, however their last move, the secession of Crimea from Ukraine was a mastermind and a sweet finger to our so-called democracy and intelligence service.
   Now, given our history in escalading to war, I am afraid that we will AGAIN be involved in killings.
   We send djihadists in Syria and neo-Nazis in Europe, do we have limits? What will be next? Before we targeted defenseless countries, now our hunger is growing and Europe is becoming our theater of action. Switzerland is opposing us. Will it be our next target?

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   1. 93

      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Max, is there a single vile action anywhere in the world that the US didn't originate?  That the US hasn't been behind from the initial idea through planning to completion?  Is there another country anywhere that is even 1% as evil as the US?
      
      How you can still live here, taking advantage of all the US offers, while maintaining the bias you consistently show is absolutely beyond me.

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      1. 64

         maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Aren't we the master of the world yes or no? If yes, how do you think we gained this reputation?
         We are losing the diplomatic battle to the benefit of Russia (whose fault is it?) therefore we HAVE to aggress militarily.
         My government uses me, doesn't it? And all considered, it is sucking me more than I do.
         Enough of your fantasy world. You are blind, I am not. I can differentiate our government and my country (the land). I LOVE the land and its people as much as I EXECRATE the government (the corrupt W---E).

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         1. 93

            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            No, far from it.
            
            We do not HAVE to aggress militarily or any other way.
            
            I'm sorry your government uses you - my own relationship is more of a willing trade partner.
            
            But your own world is fantasy, a very ugly fantasy where the whole world and specifically the people around you on a daily basis are out to get you.  A world where you are forever surrounded by evil.  Not a world I would choose to live in.

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            1. 64

               maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               We do HAVE since we are privileging exploitation in our commercial transactions over friendship. Why is it that Africa and Southern America prefer to trade with China versus us? When Chavez built successfully the ALBA, did he preconize exploitation or friendship? Didn't he even propose to help us when we faced oil crisis?
               We are telling everybody that we are here to help and at the first occasion allowed we cease their assets (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine...) like scavengers. The killing is made by the djihadists, the neo-Nazis in Ukraine and when it's over corporations share the loot while the people's benefits will shrink thanks to another IMF strangling austerity policy.
               Are you part of the people that evade their money? Are you part of the people who benefit of fiscal loopholes? Are you Lockheed or Halliburton... If yes, what I doubt, in what way are you a trade partner?
               You DID choose to live in. You just close your eyes. I reckon it is easier.

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      2. 0

         mbuggiehposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Wilderness: I agree with you 100%.
         
         How it is possible to live in the US, take full advantage of everything it offers---including freedom of speech, and then relentlessly blame it for every damn wrong the world past and present and future?
         
         It is beyond me as well.

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   2. 0

      mbuggiehposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Are you claiming the following:
      
      1. The Russian focus is so limited that it was "distracted" by the Olympics from its national security?
      
      2.  That the US attacked Crimea?

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3. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   A lot of Russian people with Russian guns are running a vote where staying in the Ukraine is not offered as an option.
   
   But nothing to do with Russia, no, of course not.

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   1. 0

      mbuggiehposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      What is increasingly beyond my understanding is not just support for Putin and his efforts to rebuild the Soviet Union (fine, there will always be people---even Americans, who support communism and the Soviet Union, and totalitarian states, etc.), but the popular belief that what happened in Crimea was some an authentic democratic election that Russia had no part in and that represents the will of the majority of people is beyond anything that I can even begin to process.
      
      This makes no sense whatsoever to me.

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      1. 61

         CHRIS57posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You are quite right. Has not much to do with legal democratic processes, this Crimean election.
         But was anything democratic about the coup d'etat in Kiew, that coughed up a bunch of racist nationalists from Svoboda and Pravy Sector?
         The whole support of western politics to Maidan was irresponsible in the first place.
         Russia appears to be agressive, but no more than the US or EU.  background all the action of Russia appears swift and tidy.

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         1. 64

            maxoxam41posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            In what way Russia was aggressive? Aggressive or protective given what happened in Kiev? May I remind you that Crimea voted to the majority to its attachment to Russia.

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4. 64

   maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

   I sometimes wonder what an 86 rating versus a 72 implies as for our rational thinking. It doesn't mean that the content is rational it only means that the demand, the majority of the reader is not rational. If I follow the logic, what does it reveal about the medium?

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5. 60

   paradigmsearchposted 10 years ago

   Now that the Crimeans have overwhelmingly voted to join Russia, I consider this a local/internal matter and our US politicians should just butt out.

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