jump to last post 1-50 of 65 discussions (708 posts)

Ads Disabled because I wrote an article critical of the Gay Agenda

  1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago

    My article titled Gay Agenda Threatens Christian Business Owners and Employees had the ads disabled.

    I think Hubpages is discriminating against me because of my viewpoint.  I noticed several pro-Gay articles that had ads.  I am so mad I could spit!

    What do you think?

    1. psycheskinner profile image80
      psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The ads are disabled on any hub that uses words like "homosexual" on the assumption that it is about sex.

      That is kind of the opposite of a pro-gay agenda.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I found many articles that were pro-Gay/Homosexual that had ads...

        1. psycheskinner profile image80
          psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Then I guess they managed to slip through.  But it has been explicit policy for years to go no ads on any hub that mentions homosexuality in any specificity or depth.  There was a long forum thread about it.

        2. psycheskinner profile image80
          psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Okay I went and found it for you--note highlighted section.

          "In partnership with our advertising partners, we've identified below some areas that are not suitable for advertising but that, at our discretion, we may allow to remain published without ads:

          Reproductive medical content (including vaginal and penile issues and sexually transmitted diseases)
          Content about sexuality, including losing your virginity, fetish, ***or LGBT issues****
          Content about abortion, circumcision, rape, incest, pedophilia, and molestation
          Content describing violent crimes or gruesome accidents
          Lewd or profane humor, including provocative entendre
          Restrained journalistic or fine art nudity
          If the content of your hub falls into one of these areas, please set the Ad Level to 'None'. If you have specific questions, please contact us."

          1. janshares profile image88
            jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            psycheskinner, when you say "managed to slip through" do you mean HP doesn't check for that during QAP? Hmmm, strange. It's interesting that they ask in the statement that the hubber turn off the ads for those hubs that fall into those topic categories. Maybe that's why Brie saw so many. I guess if we don't follow this rule and turn off the ads we risk the hub becoming unfeatured. hmm

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The QAP does not check for following internal HP rules such as this one.

          2. janshares profile image88
            jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Actually just realized that QAP would not address it because you don't get ads until you have 100 views anyway.

            1. DrMark1961 profile image91
              DrMark1961posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Hi Jan this is off topic but I wonder where you got the information about ads only after 100 views. Back in April I wrote a hub about Berber names for the Azawakh, a rare African dog breed, and it has only had 30 page views to date. (Which I kind of expected.)
              Anyway, it already has ads.

              1. Jayne Lancer profile image90
                Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I read somewhere that the ad that appears within the main text of a hub is disabled until the hub has received more than 100 views.

                1. Matthew Meyer profile image77
                  Matthew Meyerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I think this may be what you are talking about.
                  From the FAQ
                  "Please note that the 250x250 unit (the blue and orange squares roughly in the middle of the Hub) will not display for the first 100 Hub views."

                  http://hubpages.com/faq/#hpads-appearance

                  1. Jayne Lancer profile image90
                    Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Well yes, if you need to reiterate. Actually, your link is better, because it leads directly to the relevant info.

                  2. DrMark1961 profile image91
                    DrMark1961posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Thanks for that info.

              2. Jayne Lancer profile image90
                Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I haven't read through it again, but I think it only applies to the HP ad program. It's explained here: http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/maki … y-HubPages

    2. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No Brie, you ads were NOT disabled because of your position or because of your imagined "gay agenda".

      In fact, ads are frequently disabled on any hubs dealing with any gay-related issues. I have written in SUPPORT of same-sex marriage and have written POSITIVE hubs about gay history and had my ads turned off.

      And yes, as noted above, any hubs that use words like gay or homosexual or anything remotely related to gay are assumed to be about sex or explicitly sexual and have ads turned off.

      IF you go through your hub---as I have, and work on getting rid of words that the automatic filters pick up, you may find that the automatic ads are restored. I have had success doing this.

    3. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I got ads disabled on a hub about Emily Dickinson's poems. It took me a long time to figure out WHY, but I did. I got rid of any and all words that could be read as an automatic filter as "sexual" and the ads came back on.

    4. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      "The Gay agenda". Stereotyping and categorizing millions, possibly hundreds of millions of people into an agenda, to me is completely unacceptable but you have the right to do so.

      Also, as a "christian" business owner, please don't speak for me (just a request), especially with such an aggressive tone. I'm not sure why you would feel the need to spit, because someone has different beliefs than you or is of a different orientation. Please also respect my right to state what I have.
      To be proud of ones orientation in any respect is fine, but to speak out against someone being themselves, that is a completely different thing. i.e Being proud to be from the US, great. People who spread hate about the US and go out of their way to prevent US citizens from living their lives. Not great. If someone likes to live life a way that you don't like, I would like to know why someone would feel the need to preach that they need to change and be someone they are not.

      There is no "pro gay agenda".

      You are not being discriminated against because you are the one who dislikes someone else for being themselves and if something is done to prevent you, this is not discrimination. This could never fit the definition of discrimination. i.e The racist groups can not claim discrimination for not being allowed to oppose someones civil rights. This is called justice and/or equity.

      I doubt very much your ads have been taken down for this reason. I once had a hub taken down because it was about video streaming. They must be discriminating against me too for believing in video streaming and the right to dispense that information wink Not sure really.

    5. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Dear Brie,

      You have requested that a company and/or business should be able to reject customers for whatever reason they choose? Is it at all possible that these companies are practicing that right by not accepting you as a customer with whom they wish to advertise? Thank you for petitioning for companies to reject customers as they see fit. You seem to have reached your goal.

      Best Regards,

      Cfin.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +1

    6. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Brie:

      Can I ask you a sincere question?

      Why are you so focused on this mythological and imagined gay agenda?

      What difference can it possibly matter to you if gay and lesbian people are not discriminated against in the public sphere? Christian activists claim that we are a minority of LESS THAN 2% of the population. So, why the alarm---really?

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Why does she feel that she is so important that hubpages would single her out for censorship?
        Why does she feel that the definition of discrimination includes prevention of discrimination?
        Why is she speaking for christian business owners?
        Why is there suddenly anti agenda to the  "gay agenda" when the gay people have been around since the dawn of time?
        Does Brie believe that their is a Gay congress?
        Can my dog no longer go to Pet Mart if he humps another male dog?

        1. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Great point!

          Fascinating how self-important some of us are and how sensitive we are to being possibly marginalized---particularly after we've written a hub dedicated to the marginalization of others.

    7. AEvans profile image71
      AEvansposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Brie,

      Why in the world would it threaten Christian Small businesses? Does God ask us to spew hate among the people? WWJD if he were here today? I realize many have different opinions; but we as people need to worry about ourselves because we are spreading love and gathering a flock; but many Christians are spewing hate and dividing people as a whole.

      When we walk like Christ that is one thing; but judging when we are not without our own sins is another. 2 years ago the word, " homosexual" could not be used, so nothing has changed since that time.

      You do realize that the majority of pedophilia is from white heterosexual males? Not homosexual males so please research correct information before passing judgement on others.

      " True Christians" do not pass judgement on others. We are love, not hate. We embrace and not divide and we devote our time to the word of God and do not live out of the old testament but the new.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        True Christians judge all the time..in fact YOU are judging me RIGHT NOW!  You need to start reading your bible and quit listening to the world!

    8. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well, for one, start by figuring out what a christian is seeing as you just said Catholics aren't christian.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Jesus said  you must be born again.  A Christian is anyone who is a born again follower of Jesus.

        1. cfin profile image77
          cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          NO Brie. Just NO. This is your opinion. Catholics wrote the bible. All the saints were Catholic. All the protestant sects were copies of Catholicism and just altered it a little bit and in some cases not at all. Don't TELL me what a Christian is. You don't have the power to rewrite words across the entire world as you see fit. To say otherwise is more than insane.

          Full Definition of CATHOLIC
          1
          a often capitalized :  of, relating to, or forming the church universal
          b often capitalized :  of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it.

          if I say a chicken is a chicken, then it is. You cannot call a chicken a duck and change the definition of chicken to a duck that was born twice. Insane! Shall I define insane for you?

    9. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Not at all, topics that are deemed to be of a sensitive and/or controversial nature e.g. a mature subject matter will have ads disabled.  Subjects pertaining to sexuality, contraception, rape, and abortion will have ads disabled because of sensitive subject matter.    What you wrote Brie was probably considered sensitive or controversial subject matter which is why the ads were disabled.  It had nothing to do with your particular subject matter.  HubPages does not discriminate against subject matter.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I have since found that out..see my previous postings about why the ads were disabled.

    10. no body profile image91
      no bodyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Similarly, I have an article whose ads are disabled because of the content. It was an article on humans being born sinners as David said, "In sin my mother conceived me." It was clear I meant "innocent babies." I guess the clear idea that an innocent baby being a sinner was more than could be tolerated. Anyway, I kept it up and did not delete it. The Scripture is worth more than people's feelings (even mine).

    11. Stevennix2001 profile image84
      Stevennix2001posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      To be honest, I only read like a few pages of this thread, so I apologize if i cover anything that someone else has already pointed out.  After reading what one of the hubpages staff had to say about the issue, I think you already have you're answer as to why your ads were disabled on that particular hub.

      As far as you feeling like you're being persecuted against, I think you're mistaken because your hub is still published am I not correct?  I mean unless you unpublished it yourself, it should be up on hubpages right?  Well there you go.  You're not being persecuted against because hubpages didn't automatically unpublish your hub that promoted hatred towards the lbgt community. 

      Granted, I may not agree with you about your feelings towards the lbgt community, but I will concede with you that it's your constitutional right to say whatever you want; even if that means saying something I don't agree with.  However, making money off what you say about the gay community is not a right.  It's a privilege. 

      It's like me when I review movies.  I have every right to say a film sucks, or it's great; regardless if the reader disagrees with me.  However, if Uncle Sam passed a law tomorrow saying that all online reviews were a form of piracy,. and hubpages took off all the ads from my hubs, then I'll admit. I would be very pissed off about it to say the least, but at the end of the day...i can't argue against it if that's what the government wants to do.  It's my right to say how i might feel about a particular film, but making money off that opinion that i have is a privilege.  Just like it's a privilege for you to make money off your controversial anti gay agenda.  It's not a right.  Your not entitled to make money off anything you write here. 

      So unless you can prove that hubpages unpublished your hub solely based on it's content, then chances are you're NOT being discriminated against.

    12. dBrian profile image81
      dBrianposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Wow I am shocked! HAHA I mean you think you were discriminated against? What a screwed up way of thinking! Junk like that should be published on your own website, or not published at all.

    13. 60
      retief2000posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Welcome to the New America.

  2. Sarah Brittney profile image60
    Sarah Brittneyposted 2 years ago

    I do think that is unfair, and that they should certainly give you a valid reason for it being disabled. While controversial, you certainly have the right to write about the topic. Perhaps adding to the article a piece explaining the opposing side so that it appears less bias may help? I don't know too much yet about how this all works, but I'm sure there has to be a way to get it published.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It's published I just can't make any money from it.  I did notice that there were a lot of pro-Gay articles and they had ads on them.

    2. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      As I said above (and just think about how gracious this old gay person is being to you---a Christian who wants to make money off of an anti-gay rant)---and this will work because I have done it:

      Go back to your hub and edit it. Look carefully for buzz words that will trigger filters and remove them or use synonyms less-likely to be picked up by the filters. Keep doing this until ads were restored.

      Trust me...it works.

    3. jlpark profile image89
      jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Some of my hubs are pro-LGBT - and if using the word "homosexual" - ads are disabled...it's not just Brie, nor is it discrimination.

  3. paradigmsearch profile image88
    paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago

    This might be an experiment worth trying...

    Keep the word, "gay".

    But get rid of the word, "homosexual". In both the hub and in comments.

    I put the odds at better than 50:50 it will work. smile

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well, I wrote to Hubpages and also included all the articles that were pro-Gay that had ads on them..so we'll see what they do first.

      1. Maffew James profile image97
        Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You can argue all you want but the reason your article doesn't have ads enabled, is because it is completely against the Adsense terms of service. Your article disseminates hatred. It states in no uncertain terms, that gay people will ruin the lives of Christians, and that they are a form of evil in an ever increasingly evil world. That is hate speech. If someone said Christianity is an evil in the world, that is also hate speech. The difference between a pro-gay article, and your article is that yours spreads hate towards a group; the former does not.

        Now if Hubpages didn't disable your ads, they are liable to have their Adsense privileges revoked if it was reported. Worse still is that if you were in fact reported to Adsense, your Adsense account would be revoked and you would be permanently banned. Google rarely ever responds to complaints from a banned user, so once you're banned, you're banned for life.

        Frankly, I cannot fathom why people need to persecute other human beings for such stupid reasons. I don't care if someone is black or if someone is a woman, and I'm not going to spread hatred, exclude them, or villify them because of reasons like that. The world we live in is a nasty enough place as it is without adding to it.

        1. Jayne Lancer profile image90
          Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          +1

  4. Sarah Brittney profile image60
    Sarah Brittneyposted 2 years ago

    That's interesting... I definitely would love to see the rational behind that.

  5. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 2 years ago

    It must be really rough to be discriminated against. I think you should protest in front of the HubPages HQ. Be aware of the sacrifice you are making though: cops have a long history of beating, assaulting, and prejudicially arresting straight white women for speaking out against homosexuality.

    Be sure to alert the news. The most important part will be getting news cameras there to record your brave stand against injustice. Maybe the average Joe on the street is too busy to think about the plight of the modern heterosexual, but when institutionalized bigotry of the local police and business owners rears its ugly head, they will be shocked into action.

    While you might come out black and blue, remember: you shall overcome.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It must be really tough to be a hypocrite!

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Like telling people not to use television in a hub that was written on the internet? Or preaching about equality and asking if your rights have been infringed because you believe someone is stopping you from promoting the infringement of another persons rights. Like asking(more like demanding)  people to respect your beliefs that are different to theirs with one hand, while categorizing, demonizing and asking people to avoid a whole group of people because they have different beliefs to yours, with the other hand.

        Like following a religion that preaches equality, love, unity and morality, and then preaching, hate, immorality, conspiracies, fear and segregation.

        Like stating everyone else has an agenda and it's bad when you clearly have one.

    2. Cardisa profile image89
      Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Len Cannon, you are hilarious! LOL

  6. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Well we see the yea's and the nay's on both sides, and both have a right to speak . But in the end of the matter ,the truth shall stand for all to know and see with out a doubt. The one who created the human body will address his decision . Not just on this subject but many things. We may use our power of acting as we please. But who gave us the power, still he has the power to take it away.

  7. ChristinS profile image94
    ChristinSposted 2 years ago

    It's a giant HP conspiracy vs a word or phrase you used tripped a filter.  I'm going to have to go with you tripped a filter and are not a victim of discrimination - although apparently you may just be a fan of it for other people.

    1. relache profile image88
      relacheposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      +1

      1. LCDWriter profile image95
        LCDWriterposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +2

    2. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly!

      Funny how when a self-described "Christian" feels the sting of discrimination they want immediate redress!

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        But the Caucasians (pillagers) whose ancestors came from Europe (the richest continent on earth at the time) and now live in North America (the richest continent on earth), who have privilege, have preached segregation for thousands of years and looked down on anything different to their exact set of beliefs,  it IS discrimination to take their RIGHT to discriminate away. Right? I mean really, right?

        I mean, in all seriousness, shouldn't their wishes be fulfilled immediately? Isn't that what they are used to? Let's just all give in and not let the people who the author of this forum doesn't like anymore do anything. As a matter of fact, let's just go back to a monarchy and she can sit on a throne and tell us all how we should live and CURE us all of anything she doesn't like. It could be like the glorious fundamentalist regime of North Korea.

    3. Cardisa profile image89
      Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I have to agree with Christin S. If HP was to discriminate based on your viewpoint then half of the hubs about homosexuality would be either unpublished or have no ads. I have to wonder why people always think the worst of Hubpages team?

  8. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    Very interesting a filter. hum! When some one used a similar word toward me ,it did not filter,is this also done when people reply to your statment?

    1. Kiss andTales profile image22
      Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well said and understood missirupp I agree about the physical and emotional harm to others. People can verbally do harm. But we must admit the damage can already be present. Like a bomb that is present and ticking. And some ones statement can set the bomb off.  It may not take much to say. But people have a lot to air out .and they use opportunities to say it here on HP.
      What I do notice is people will do as they please rather you agree with it or not. But they will not accept your mental decision on their choices. And So now people are labeled names. Many times people say they have rights but they deny yours by saying you are a bigot, or other names. Because you disagree . You can not expect people to understand yours when you deny them their right at the same time.

  9. 0
    missiruppposted 2 years ago

    It is about the advertisers. My very first Hub does not qualify for ads and I am okay with that. I am happy to have found a site where I can regularly write and have an audience.  I understand why also. Hubpages must be careful, otherwise the advertisers will disappear. It isn't that you wrote about homosexuality, it is your tone. There is a line that is crossed when you might contribute to the physical or emotional harm of a fellow human being and I wouldn't want to see that here or be a part of a site that did either.

    1. Sarah Brittney profile image60
      Sarah Brittneyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      +1

    2. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Imagine the irony here!! Brie is telling companies that they have to accept her hub, while preaching that companies shouldn't have to accept customers they don't like? WAHAHAHAHAHA

  10. Sychophantastic profile image83
    Sychophantasticposted 2 years ago

    There's no pro-gay and anti-gay, just pro-human and anti-human.

    There's also pro-idiot.

    1. Sarah Brittney profile image60
      Sarah Brittneyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I love this. smile

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        smile

  11. paradigmsearch profile image88
    paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago

    And just to complicate the issue further, I've noticed that ads are still busily showing up at the bottom of this thread. big_smile

    1. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Ha!

      Great observation...wink

  12. Maffew James profile image97
    Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago

    Google's Adsense terms of service directly state:

    "We don't allow the promotion of hatred toward groups of people based on their race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity."

    If someone wrote an article about 'the Christian agenda', stating that Christians were damaging the fabric of America, advertisements from Google and other companies would be disabled on that article too. Articles that are 'pro-gay', 'pro-Christian', etc, aren't discriminatory against the group involved, so ads will be served by advertising companies.

    1. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I guess it's the inherent hatred then of any work that rests upon the mythological and imagined "gay agenda"...wink

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Here's the agenda's I have to deal with. What about you guys?
        That "Irish" agenda,
        or how about the "immigrant (often times referred to as smelly)" agenda,
        That "government worker (often times referred to as smelly)" agenda,
        The "christian" agenda,
        That "Catholic" agenda,
        That "took er jobs" agenda,
        That "took er women" agenda,
        That "doesn't go to church" agenda,
        That "Business owner" agenda,
        I could go on but now on a lighter note,
        That "short guy" agenda,
        That "cheesecake" agenda
        That "facebook" agenda
        That "video gamer" agenda
        That "son in law" agenda
        That

    2. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this
    3. Matthew Meyer profile image77
      Matthew Meyerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I just want to confirm that @Maffew James's statement about Google AdSense policy is accurate.

      You can see it above.
      http://hubpages.com/forum/post/2595244

  13. Mark Ewbie profile image83
    Mark Ewbieposted 2 years ago

    Still.  It bumps up the old traffic.  Might get a Hub of the Day.

    I probably have a gay pic somewhere...


    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9026314_f248.jpg

  14. Zelkiiro profile image85
    Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago

    Hard to say why, but I'm feeling very little sympathy towards the OP...

  15. limejuice profile image81
    limejuiceposted 2 years ago

    You can't have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand, you want a platform where you can express your discriminating views against gay people, which Hubpages generously gives you. Since "freedom of speech" is very important on hubpages, you're hub isn't banned into oblivion (which is definitely what I would do, if I owned hubpages). AND now you want to monetize your hateful anti-gay hub TOO!! I can't believe it, why, the nerve of some people..!!! You can't have it both ways. If you choose to express your discriminating and hateful opinions against gay people then that's your decision - but don't expect advertisers to pay you for it!! If I were an Adsense advertiser I would under no circumstance want my business ads to be associated with anti-gay viewpoints, since neither me nor my business share those same viewpoints, and I definitely don't want any readers/viewers/customers to associate me or my business with these hateful and hurtful opinions that go against people's basic human rights. By the way, I don't know why you're complaining, since you obviously violated Adsense's TOS "We don't allow the promotion of hatred toward groups of people based on their race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity." So don't go pointing your finger at Hubpages, claiming that they're "discriminating against your hub", when you're the one who failed to comply with Google Adsense's terms of service.

  16. limejuice profile image81
    limejuiceposted 2 years ago

    By the way, I don't know why you're complaining, since you obviously violated Adsense's TOS "We don't allow the promotion of hatred toward groups of people based on their race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity." So don't go pointing your finger at Hubpages, claiming that they're "discriminating against your hub", when you're the one who failed to comply with Google Adsense's terms of service.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It's not hatred to believe the Bible and it's not hatred because you want to slander me by saying so.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I agree with Brie Hoffman people are so easy to use the word hatred when some one does not agree with a choice.  Example like people may not like peanut butter because of an bad experience,it could be a elergic problem , it could be it just taste bad to the buds, yet if some one says they do not like peanut butter, some one will go to the ex stream  and say they are a bigot. They hate peanut butter. Because they can not see why . Because that is their choice in food, And the fact is they do not really know this person at all what they know is their opinion and only a part of the story. The word hatred should not be used when you do not really know the person. You can not hate some one you do not know. But you can disagree on their choice

        1. ChristinS profile image94
          ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Are you seriously comparing disliking peanut butter with discrimination against a group of people? For real? I'd say apples and oranges, but even that wouldn't cut it.

          1. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I used that example because it quick to the point. Some like and some don't like peanut butter,the example was to show how it sounded which you just proved ,with the word serious!  People can not instantly change anyone. The change starts from the inner person. In turn the one judging and ranting and raging is throwing blows to the wind . The bible is for our instruction personally ,it was not written to put ourself over others in judgement,because we are all guilty of sin. It should not be used as a weapon. People tend to use it to their own benefits of power. Totally wrong.

            1. Maffew James profile image97
              Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Brie states that gay people are out to ruin the lives of Christians and end their religion. She claims that gay people are an evil, in an increasingly evil world. That is hatred. It's clear-cut and dry.

              I'm also concerned that you call being gay a choice, which it is not. The fact of the matter is that even if it was a choice, that's not a valid reason to condemn it. You don't have any valid reasons actually, nor does anyone else. There's no valid reason to condemn black people from living a life free of slavery, no valid reason to prevent women from having jobs or authority, and no valid reason to prevent gay people from getting married.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I appreciate how you expressed your opinion in a peaceful way. And I disagree with Brie in her message. And using the bible as a loaded gun  as example. But again first I want to ask you a question ? Where do you think people make that decision from. Where do you make your decision from?  I just would like to know for reference.

                1. Maffew James profile image97
                  Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It's wrong to hurt other human beings or spread hatred. It doesn't matter where the decision to spread hatred comes from, what matters is that you're hurting other people. Brie can hurt people all she wants, because she has the freedom to choose to do so (and face the consequences), but she can't back up that choice by saying her bible lets her do it, it's not a valid reason. There is no valid reason to hurt or subjugate someone.

                  Personally, I am against any form of discrimination aimed at gender, sexuality, age, religion, race, skin colour, etc. I believe that Brie can sit in her church every Sunday, and that church can exist. I believe that a gay couple can walk down the street holding hands if they please. I believe that women can be the CEO of a business, or the President/Prime Minister of their country, and I believe that black people can dine in a restaurant side by side with white people. A lofty dream, but one in which nobody is made to feel less than someone else.

            2. ChristinS profile image94
              ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              In my mind, comparing discrimination with peanut butter trivializes the seriousness of the issue.  While I understand the point - distaste, it really has nothing to do with discrimination.  You aren't going to soften the hatred of unreasonable people by coddling them.  If they break rules that apply to the rest of us - then they can face those consequences like the rest of us. Hate speech, no matter how spun, violates those rules.

              I get your point and I agree with some of it, but I have no sympathy for the OP.  She is playing the victim card while simultaneously promoting a mindset that victimizes and vilifies other people, and then trying to justify it by wrapping it up with a pretty little religious bow.  She doesn't get her way and she cries and stomps her feet and reports everything to HubPages and asks if it's a conspiracy.  Someone points out her hypocrisy she cries it's slander - yet she wants to profit off her writing that slanders an entire group of people. My 3 year old has more maturity during temper tantrums.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Discrimination can be a deep seated problem. Again like a surgeon we can not operate on the human heart we do not have the credentials God  has. We can express our reason why we believe this is a problem . And many will see what the problem is. It does not give us a right to do the surgery. And people are outright saying I do not want your input, I do not like your way or your solution to my situation. Which is their right. Nobody is responsible for each every life But the one who grants it each day. We ourself are not sure of tomorrow . But in all we can get to know the one who loves us all.

                1. ChristinS profile image94
                  ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, but the reason people gain rights is because they fight for them, not because they wait for "God" to soften the hearts of the unreasonable.  Reasonable people stand up against injustices because it's the right thing to do - no direct interference from God required. We are now seriously getting off the original topic though - which was Adsense, their rules and that you cannot use religion or anything else to justify hate speech and expect to get paid for that writing - period. Insert hate speech against whatever group you want - it isn't going to fly.  I happen to be fine with that and it's as it should be.  Say whatever you want.  Free speech is great, but it also carries consequences and the OP should know and understand that instead of pretending she is being victimized or discriminated against.

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I disagree with you ,we can not control many things, and there are things that have existed before our being born which we have no control at all. When people can control the sun from heat, the moon from light, the oceans from  rising high, and stop death , then you can say we have control  at this point we do not. That is just why the earth is in the condition it is in , full of hatred, disease, crime, you name it is there ,all because people have so called rule the earth for a short time soon to end.

      2. limejuice profile image81
        limejuiceposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        @Brie_Hoffman:

        I am a Christian too, and I'm rather certain that the Bible and Jesus and the word of God is about love and compassion towards your fellow man.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Mat_23:33  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
          Mar_9:43  And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
          Mar_9:45  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
          Mar_9:47  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

          I guess you just skipped over these parts?

          1. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What's any of that got to do with your hub having no ads? Maybe you should recategorize this thread under religion now.

          2. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I think we must be  as Jesus did he did not judge people before others as to make them feel bad ,or any kind of way belittle anyone, what he talked to people about was how to love ,and change from there , I would disagree in how you use scripture , because that is not our position , ours is to preach of A government that will resolve all our problems ,sickness , death, resurrection a new earth. A new Government, our work should bring peace, for Jesus said happy are the peaceful for they shall see God. This is the message of truth. Also if you look up hell in Hebrew it is not a fire , it is a grave ,no one really knows what a person is from the heart. We may think we know but we don't only God knows and Jesus. We all are imperfect in some way ,we all do imperfect t things ,So we can not use God's word to place anybody anywhere. But we can show love to God's creation. And wish them the best, it is their life.

            1. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
              Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I disagree completely with what you say here. Perhaps you should actually study your Bible. Jesus personally threw the money changers out of the temple, driving them with a whip. He also personally called the religious leaders "vipers" and "whited sepulchres." I would say He absolutely did get down to the nitty gritty and condemn certain groups of people...He also said that a city that received not His teachings would not find Hell to be as easy for them as it was for Sodom and Gomorrah. No need to go into how Sodom and Gomorrah fit into this topic...we should all be well enough versed in what happened to them. 

              All I am saying is that to state that God is love, you must also state that he is justice, he is vengeance, and he is unchanging in his determination of right and wrong.

              1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I agree.

              2. cfin profile image77
                cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Joshua, If Brie is a money changer, seeking profit from her anti gay hub, does that mean she should be thrown form the temple? She is only angered that she cannot make money.

                Should I also state what the bible thinks of hypocrits? Brie doesn't think a shop should have to serve everyone, but she is angered that adsense have chosen not to serve her.

                And if we are speaking of the bible, the as a male, shouldn't Brie "be quiet" according to her own rules? I do not agree with this rules, but if we are following the bible, we can't really pick and choose. Right?

                2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

                1. Susana S profile image92
                  Susana Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Nicely pointed out. Hypocritical indeed.

          3. Len Cannon profile image88
            Len Cannonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Shhhh

            1 Tim 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

            1. SmartAndFun profile image92
              SmartAndFunposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              This is not right! Women should not be treated like second-class citizens!

              (Unless, of course, they are gay.)

              1. 0
                mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well...everyone should be treated equal and as "god's children" except "the gay" because of their "welcome the demons from the gates of hell" agenda...wink

            2. LCDWriter profile image95
              LCDWriterposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You continue to crack me up, Len Cannon.

            3. 0
              mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Exactly...wink

        2. Kiss andTales profile image22
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          “The women proclaiming the good news are a large army.”—PSALM 68:11.
          Women are allowed to preach. They may not give counsel to men ,but they are allowed to speak the truth. And remember In the upper room women received Holy Spirit of fire along with the men of a 120 . Jesus told them they would receive the gift. To continue the work he started. We must remember Adam was created first, Eve came from his rib second, Their is a seniority that is respected. Like a Job  of who came first. In respect Man  Adam had this with God ,he actually talked in person To him. But lost that right. Women are a beautiful creation that complimented the man. The point is her value stands alone. Not to be looked down on. She was given a job to carry the son Of God. That is a high honor.

          1. Maffew James profile image97
            Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So you don't deny that women aren't allowed to be considered equal to men, nor allowed to work? I don't see any of you out in the streets telling working women that they are sinners. In your eyes, any woman in a higher position than even a single male at her place of employment, is a sinner, according to your book. You all pick and choose, using the bible as a scapegoat to persecute the people you don't like, ignoring the parts of the bible that go against your own beliefs. You can't believe one part of the bible, ignore the rest, then claim it gives you authority to do or say something.

            1. ChristinS profile image94
              ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yep, THIS totally.

            2. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              First this is a small peace of space. We started out with one subject and now you want me to explain both and I can . But please only in peace. I am a women too. And you have judge my words wrong already. First I would like to know the questions I asked so I can understand what you are saying . Let this not be about attacking. Let's talk.

              1. Maffew James profile image97
                Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I may be wrong here, but I feel English isn't your primary language? I feel there's a language barrier here that's making it hard for either party to get their point across.

                1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  It could be, I write as I think. Maybe a few words missed. But we can talk with understanding. That is the point.

                2. cfin profile image77
                  cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Hahahahahahaha! oh my gosh. This thread is priceless and truly shows how far hypocrites will go, digging a hole deeper and deeper until nothing they say makes sense anymore and contradicts everything else they have said.

            3. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
              Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I agree with your statement regarding the usage of the Bible in part to put forward your own beliefs. Either you believe the Bible - or you don't. There is no middle ground or compromise with God. You have to accept all of what He says, or reject it completely.

              1. cfin profile image77
                cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So if the bible says to lets say "destroy" gay people, and on the other hand says to treat everyone equally do you follow that? If the bible tells us that woman are not allowed to teach men, is this what you follow?

      3. relache profile image88
        relacheposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Limejuice, a lawyer would immediately point out that nothing you have written here can legally be construed as slander.

        1. cfin profile image77
          cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I agree. Defamation by publication in transient form. Nothing that has been said here is a lie, so therefore, it cannot be slander. Accusing someone of clear hypocrisy is not slander when one can prove the contradictions.

          Further, I would like to add to the long list of contradictions. the fact that she deleted my comments from her hub while pleading her right to freedom of expression and that of everyone else.

          Also, if she is a woman and follows the bible, why is she trying to teach men? This is not my view, but it is a serious moral value within the bible.

          1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
            Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            For your information the verse about teaching men is "in church".  You should at least get your criticisms correct.  Also, I deleted your comments because you posted them twice..you need to get a life!

            1. cfin profile image77
              cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I need to get a life? You just told me I am not a Christian because I am a Catholic. You spew hate and harm the definition of christian with nonsense and your uneducated and ignorant interpretation of a book written by Catholics who you don't even count as Christians. What a joke!

              Now you try to teach me your own moral beliefs and force them on me as you have interpreted that very book. Pfff.

  17. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
    Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago

    While I personally do not support same sex marriage, I am not homophobic, in that I have friends who are gay. I tell them I don't agree with their lifestyle, but I don't bash them over the head constantly. One thing I have learned is that you rarely win someone over by telling them every single mistake in their lives. As a Christian you're more likely to win them over by showing them compassion.

    That said, I do believe that anyone has the right to express their view freely. Without an explicit statement of hatred of the group of people you can not consider such an article to be hate material. It is simply one person's opinion of what she sees happening in our world. Would it be just to exclude her work simply because you disagree with her viewpoint? I think not.

    I have many friends who do not attend church and I work daily with 125 young men who for the most part avidly reject any type of religious teaching. I encourage them to read the Bible because even if they choose not to believe it they will make a more educated choice regarding their beliefs. It never hurts to fully understand what you do not believe in order to defend your beliefs.

    While I am sure discrimination can be shown from the other end of this article as well, the cases mentioned here are true. Some of the issues that pro-family organizations and businesses stand up for truly do cause them to be persecuted publicly. However, were the same level of persecution doled out, all Christians would be lumped in with Westboro Baptist Church and their warped viewpoint that open harassment of the general public is the best way to spread the message.

    I am a Christian, and I am the farthest thing from being judgemental of any other person's life choices. They will answer to God for that. As to the ads being disabled, many articles referencing homosexuality are flagged by Adsense- on both sides of the issues. Some do slip through, but they are relatively few and far more likely to be flagged at a later date. Don't be discouraged, and don't stop sharing your opinion. That's what HP is for, to voice your opinion on issues, events, and products.

    1. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The probably reject religion because of this kind of "discussion" and the hypocrisy that is evident across the said "bible" which, through the centuries has been altered so much it isn't really what it was. Brie can voice her opinions and that is fine, but hypocrisy is not fine, neither is hate speech, comparing gay people to pedophile's, throwing a tantrum because a business chooses not to serve her (adsense) but she feels like businesses can refuse gay people, and the list goes on and on and on.
      Let's be honest though. When someone uses religion to make money, they are the reason that people don't go to church, as people like her will be up on the alter preaching hate and destroying whatever is left of a sensible moral church.

  18. Susana S profile image92
    Susana Sposted 2 years ago

    https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/1533730_10152077822361863_2676641753064052479_n.jpg

  19. sparkleyfinger profile image91
    sparkleyfingerposted 2 years ago

    For a Christian I guess you are missing the whole bit about not judging people, I thought that was God's job.....

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Then why are you judging me?

      1. sparkleyfinger profile image91
        sparkleyfingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I do not believe in God, so any teachings are irrelevant to me... But if your saying that you are the same way, and are in fact not a Christian, then feel free to continue judging, all mighty one.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You were accusing me of judging you so if you don't believe that it is wrong then why accuse me?  As far as Christian scripture when it comes to judging..you are misreading the text.  It says in the very next line:

          Mat_7:2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

          There are many other scriptures that tell us to judge, therefore the meaning to this passage is that you will be judged by the measure that you judge others which I accept.  I use the measure of the scriptures.

          1. sparkleyfinger profile image91
            sparkleyfingerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, it's all about the way you read it... And by your literacy skills, I can see that you don't read very well..... Where did I accuse you of judging ME? Go read your little book again...

          2. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Brie the scriptures say Reference Bible Lu 6:37 “Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released.  King James Version Lu 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: You believe in the bible then this speaks for itself.

      2. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        We're not judging you. We are trying to educate you.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          LOL, me too!

    2. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
      Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Just for a point of reference, the Bible NEVER commands us not to judge someone else. You have to take that verse in the context it was written in, and you must understand the entirety of the verse. It says "Judge not lest you be judged." In other words, feel free to cast your opinion, but when people examine that area of your life, you had best be able to live up to God's expectation or they will tear you down completely.

  20. SmartAndFun profile image92
    SmartAndFunposted 2 years ago

    Peanut butter! Yum!

    1. SmartAndFun profile image92
      SmartAndFunposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I love peanut butter, but not the gay kind.

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
        Mark Ewbieposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Lol.  That's Nutella.  I won't have it in the house.

  21. Justin Earick profile image80
    Justin Earickposted 2 years ago

    I think you are a homophobic bigot. And I think the vast majority of homophobic bigots have serious self-hate issues, often rooted in religious extremism.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I think you hate Christians and I think that people who are Christophobic have serious self-hate issues, often rooted in religious extremism.

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        AH yes, because if someone disagrees with you, they have to hate all Christians. How about you stop hiding behind your church? There is no such things as chistophibic. How foolish. Christians are the largest group in THE WORLD and not since the time of the crusades when the world was covered in uneducated "people" have we seen such idiocy.

        1. Justin Earick profile image80
          Justin Earickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There are more Muslims than Christians, just not in the US.
          And you are not far from wrong Brie - believers are a scourge to our country. Not bc they are bad people, but bc in order for there to be good xtians, we also have to deal with the fundamentalist extremist self-righteous nut-jobs. Most seriously believe this to be a xtian nation (in spite of what the Constitution says), and all believe that in order for our nation to succeed we have to stay in their god's good graces as a people - we must follow their god's law or we will fall. Thus, they insist upon pushing their personal beliefs onto the rest of us about about gays, abortion, contraception, slut-shaming and victim blaming (in spite of what Jesus actually taught), about being virulently anti-science in public education and public policy. Xtians are dangerous because many don't believe that humans can effect the planet ie climate bc god promised Noah - and are perfectly willing to destroy the planet because they are so accustomed to denying science. They think they have a better place to go when they die and thus have little incentive to make sure this planet can support human life in perpetuity. They yearn to be martyred, and especially love to play victim (war on xmas!). Xtians believe that Jesus will come back and torch the entire planet so they can have it all to themselves (New Jerusalem, Revelations). And I'm supposed to be worried about Muslims and gay people?
          BTW I'm familiar with xtians because I grew up with them and lived with them and was one myself for over a decade. I chose to get baptised for a second time when I was a teenager bc it was my personal choice at that point. I've had church homes of megachurches and mobilehome churches, I've been to Jehovas Witness and Catholic and baptist and four-square churches. And I still read my NKJV more than most believers do...

          1. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
            Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So Justin, if you chose to be baptised as a teen, what makes you hate Christians so much you can not even say their name properly? I will be the first person to admit we have many hypocrites and nut-jobs who claim the name of Christian...However, we also have many more faithful people who do treat others with respect. Not liking what someone believes has nothing to do with respecting them as a person. You have posted here that Christians are "dangerous"....that is very hateful language to use towards an entire group of people for the actions of a few. That is somewhat akin to the people who called U.S. soldiers "baby killers" when they returned home from Viet Nam...all because of the publicized actions of a small percentage of the U.S. armed forces. I am a Christian, and I take caring for our planet very seriously...as do MANY of my Christian friends. Incidentally, you also talk about Christians believing that for America to succeed it must follow "Our God's laws"... You should probably study your history. America is a Christian nation that was founded by Christian people who led very separated lives and were dedicated to their faith in God.  It is these strong Christian values that have made America the dominating force in world politics over the last 230 years. It is these same Christians who have developed a society where you have the freedom to express your opinions and views, and believe or live any lifestyle you so choose, even if we do not agree with it. Don't believe me? Move to a 3rd world muslim country and be openly homosexual...see how long your freedom or life lasts... All I am saying is you should be careful biting the hands that have worked to provide you a safe haven to live in. I have serious issues with the morality of the homosexual lifestyle, but I have no issues whatsoever with individuals who live that way. We are all people who have feelings and souls. We all must live on this planet. I do not have to like or accept what you do, nor do you have to accept my beliefs as your own. I will thank you however to reserve your nasty hate speech for a more private venue and not publicly bash the group of people who have given you EVERYTHING in terms of freedom.     Thank You smile

            1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well said Joshua

            2. 0
              mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Where do you people get this crap about the Founding Fathers? The Declaration of Independence and Constitution?

              The Founders had the opportunity to create any kind of damn country they wanted in Philadelphia at the Constitutional Convention. Some among them, including Patrick Henry, demanded that the new America be a Christian nation; that Christianity (his particular brand---Baptist) be instituted as the state religion.

              The response of the majority of the men at the convention: The First Amendment which granted not only freedom OF religion (and precludes a state religion) AND freedom FROM religion.

              America is no "safe haven" for gays and lesbians as long as evangelical Christians seeking to deny us basic human rights have the right to vote.

            3. Justin Earick profile image80
              Justin Earickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I owe "EVERYTHING" to christians?
              You pompous, self-righteous, ignoramus. Where do you get this stuff from? Did they really teaching you in public school that this is a xtian nation? Sorry to bust your ignorant bubble, but this is most certainly a secular nation (inhabited by many religious people) not a theocracy. The very First Amendment of our Constitution begins -
              'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...'
              Progressives have been fighting against believers who burned young girls at the stake at drowned them bc the church decided they were witches, fighting xtian slave-owners who used the very same bible to justify slavery, fighting xtian segregationists who used the bible to justify laws against interracial marriage. Fighting believers who think the bible justifies homophobia and bigotry toward our gay brothers and sisters.
              And to answer your substantive question before you went all xtians-are-the-masters-of-the-universe-and-the-rest-of-you-should-be-glad-to-exist-along-side - church is good for fellowship, being accountable to a large group of people on a consistent basis is healthy. And we tell small children to be good all year or else they'll end up on the naughty list and santa will leave coal in their stocking. 
              But as I said before, in order for there to be good xtians, we also must deal with the fundamentalist nut-jobs who think their (church's interpretation of their) book is literal so science is inherently false and god will protect the planet (and if not, oh well, bc xtians think they have another world to go to either way). And the whole thing is literal so women should be subservient, sex is only for procreation among married hetero-normative couples, and if we allow gays to exist as equals then god will forsake our (xtian) nation and punish us all for it.
              And more specifically, most xtians believe everyone else will burn in hell (salvation only attainable via Jesus), and my conscience could abide that for only so long. Then I realized that all religions are basically the same - be nice, love god, and be rewarded. Then I learned some about quantum physics and string theory and some of the amazing things our minds are capable of (placebos, for instance) and some spirituality. Then I learned about the procession of the exinoxes and how the bible is simply telling the story of the sun and the solstices, just like most other religions that came about around that time period...
              Eventually I realized that while any religion can bring content, no amount of faith can fabricate an afterlife. Our minds are the means by which we perceive the world around us, and our minds are finite clumps of carbon-based cells that we cannot take with us once we die.
              The afterlife is the carrot and the stick, and I'm not afraid of the stick bc neither exists.
              Non-belief is a luxury, we gave xtianity to the slaves (while refusing them education) so they would have something to look forward to. If I had a life-sentence, maybe I would need to conjure something to look forward to too.

        2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Christians are the most persecuted group in the world and in history and people like you are doing the hating and persecuting.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I doubt Muslims will agree with you, and I'm positive witches and satanists will very highly disagree.  Christians in the US are under no persecution at all, while actively persecuting many other groups.  There is some persecution in other countries, but on the whole it is quite minor; nowhere near what Christians do to anyone they decide is evil or acting against their god's plan.  Such as homosexuals.

            1. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
              Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Again you are judging me by the actions of others. You CAN NOT judge Christians by the actions of a few. And what you call "minor persecution" is much more serious. In Mexico, less than 100 miles from the U.S. border, Mexican Christians were beheaded for their faith...less than 5 years ago. In China, Christians are ejected from their society. In Russia they meet in secret in churches held in basements or barns. You sir have no clue what you are talking about. .... I have firsthand accounts of persecution of Christians that would make your stomach turn inside out at the disgusting way they are treated RIGHT NOW in 2014.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'm sorry; when Christians turn out by the thousands and millions to vote down rights for a select group of people (rights they enjoy themselves) I don't quite see it is "a few".

                Nor do I think a Mexican drug cartel is beheading people because of their religion.  Not unless it is non-Christian, anyway.

                Have you heard of "Russian Orthodox"?  The Christian sect prominent in Russia?

                I stand behind the statement that, on the whole, Christian persecution is minor in the first world.  Third world conditions can be quite different, of course; the legal murder of gays in Nigeria and other African nations is a case in point.  American Christians just deny them the rights everyone else has; Africans kill them.

                1. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  And yes, wilderness, the fact is that any institutional and organized government or non-government persecution of Christians is isolated and minimal.

                  Of course Brie will not (never) acknowledge the persecution of gays and lesbians globally because (I suspect) that she sees no problem with it as gays and lesbians are (remember) "an abomination" before her imagined god and her imagined fictional narrative of everything called the Bible.

            2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              As well as all the Muslim countries that execute Christians and North Korea and the Sudan..all these countries kill Christians.  Christians are the most persecuted group in the world.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                When was the last time a Christian was executed in a Muslim country for their religion?  On the other hand, Muslims are killed daily because they don't agree with radical Islamic beliefs.

                1. 0
                  Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  To be fair, it's not as uncommon as you think.  This woman is pregnant and in prison.  She's been sentenced to death for her refusal to renounce Christianity.  They will give her to luxury of being able to deliver her child in prison and care for the child until his/her second birthday, and will then carry out her sentence. 

                  Sadly, it does happen. sad

                  http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/30/world … y-husband/

                2. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I think that too many people are killed all too often in the name of some imagined divinity and some imagined superiority of one god over another; one set of beliefs and practices over another.

                  It does NOT matter who is killing whom. If just one person dies because and that death can be tied to religion---ANY damn religion, it is one intolerable death too many.

            3. gmwilliams profile image85
              gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you Wilderness, Christians AREN'T the most persecuted people in the world.  Atheists ARE the most persecuted people in the world.  In many third world countries, Atheists are persecuted simply for being atheists.  Even in America, Atheists are marginalized, even demonized.   In America, Christians still have religious hegemony over those of other and non-traditional religious and spiritual paths.  In the South, people who are Atheists and other non-traditional religions are viewed as anomalies, specifically in the Bible Belt, the bed of Christianity.

              1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                They may well be but in the countries I mentioned previously Christians are murdered, there is no greater amount of people who are persecuted than Christians in the world today..look it up.  But, I'm sure you wont because anything that doesn't go along with your preconceived ideas you automatically throw out.

                1. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Brie:

                  Why are you concerned with persecution? Doesn't your Bible endorse persecution as a mechanism of visible sainthood?

                  Shouldn't Christians everywhere accept persecution as a marker of their fidelity to this imagined god of yours? And, as such shouldn't they be glad to die for their religion and, in fact, reconstitute death as a result of persecution as the ultimate demonstration of faith?

  22. paradigmsearch profile image88
    paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago

    I worked up the energy to come up with the following...

    If, in the OP's hub, everywhere the word "gay" was used, it was replaced with the word "Jew", how would Google AdSense and people in general react?

    If, in the OP's hub, everywhere the word "gay" was used, it was replaced with the word "Black", how would Google AdSense and people in general react?

    The answers to the above is also the answer to how Google AdSense and people in general will react to the hub as currently written.

    Now if the OP were to replace the word "gay" with the word "Republican" or "Democrat", then she'd be home free.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Not only that...I wouldn't be experiencing all the hate from the hate mongers on this site. 

      Well put

  23. Baby-Boomer-58 profile image84
    Baby-Boomer-58posted 2 years ago

    I'm still stuck with the mental image of being 'so mad I could spit'. Is spitting what one does when swearing is not acceptable in one's social circles?

    What exactly does a spit 'say' in a situation like this? Are there various degrees of spitting (like a big glob as opposed to a thin stream of spit?)

    Is spitting a challenge ... or a statement? How mad exactly does one need to be to spit?  And do you have to walk outside every time you get mad - or just head for the bathroom?

    Is being so mad you could spit a Christian thing? An American thing? A specific region of America thing?

    Am I the only one struggling to understand just how mad Brie actually is??? ....

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not mad at all.  In fact, I fully expected the vitriol because that is the way people who support the Gay Agenda act.  In the article it mentions that one Christian family received death threats against their children and that doesn't surprise me either.

      1. Maffew James profile image97
        Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Compared to the way you act? You are no better, and you fail to recognise the fact that gay people receive far more death threats, hurtful acts, and physical assault than Christians. You say something that is hateful, and people react because they are willing to stand up for another human's rights. Death threats are never justified, but don't claim your religion is so hard done by when far far more abuse is hurled at gay people on a daily basis. You're not the victim, you're the bully.

        Now how would you feel if it was your son, brother, father, or best friend...being bashed, verbally abused, excluded, bullied to the point of suicide or bashed to death because they're gay. They have families too. Families and friends who love them and have to watch them suffer and never be allowed to experience real happiness because people like you are too bigoted to let them live in peace. Whatever way you want to try and skew it, people who bully and denigrate other humans are the real evil in this world and you should be ashamed.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I'm a bully for writing an article about how the Gay Agenda is closing down Christian businesses!?  Boy, you have a lot of nerve!  You are the BULLY not me.

          1. Maffew James profile image97
            Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            YOU, are a bully because you propagate the idea that humans can be treated like absolute garbage because of their sexual orientation, for being a part of the force that bashes, kills, and drives innocent humans, including teenagers to suicide, and the worst part...you don't even understand what you do! Have you not seen any of the hundreds of news stories where gay teenagers have committed suicide or been bashed to death because of people like you? How can you think this is okay? They're only kids and they had their whole life snapped away because of people like you and the hatred you spread!

            Your article has nothing to do with what I think about you anymore. I read it, I thought it was misguided but your own opinion nonetheless, but the responses you've written in this forum...completely and utterly heartless towards other people. You act like you're a victim when you and people like you have lead to the death of so many innocent human beings, and the ongoing abuse. When you say the things you do, you inspire other people to do it too, and it will never be right.

            1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I have never propagated that, my article has nothing in it which encouraged hatred and I, personally do not think that.  But you and others like you profit from accusing anyone who disagrees with you as a hate monger.  I do not hate anyone and I think all people should be treated with respect BUT that does NOT mean that I will call good evil or evil good and homosexuality is an evil act.

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                There are many things in this world that are good, and many things that are wrong as well,  but we can not argue the point if the heart says different. This is like putting a band aide on a bullet wound. The person can say all day long you been shot,you are bleeding, you are going to have trouble from your wound. But it is up to the person to react from his own understanding what he needs to do. Neither can we force them to understand. It is internal. Besides who do we change for? Who do we owe the honor to?  We must do it out of our own hearts not for another human who criticizes . That would not be a good reason.

                1. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course you can argue it - wrong does not always come from the heart.  It was the heart that produced the crusades, the inquisition and witch hunts, after all.

                  You can change for yourself, for your own honor.  You do it because it is the right thing to do, not because your priest says so (or even the priests of 2,000 years ago).  And treating gays as second class, satan loving, evil people with an agenda to harm good Christians is  just....plain....wrong.

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    True in some of your words , but it  still is a basic of right and wrong who created the law of that? Not man ! Man had only copied everything God has already said and done. They are the ones behind in time.  Example. DNA Has was researched since the 1800's progress continued in the 1950's  where are we now what do we know  is that the cell is like our fingerprint , and the most tiniest part are machines that give instructions by code of letters. Man did not know this way before 1800's  and slowly advanced to where we are today. This has always been ,man has always had cells with DNA. The point is  there is a designer. There is a programmer . Who knows more then we will ever know . He is the one who I will put my trust in . Not man.

                  2. cfin profile image77
                    cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    We are arguing with a person who.....hahahaha.....just told me......hahahah...... that Catholics aren't Christians hahahahah!!

        2. Kiss andTales profile image22
          Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If we were to take away sex what would we have people. People with feelings personalities, families that love, families that are closes to the heart. If we take away sex, we will still eat, sleep, cry, laugh, enjoy the good things left in life. When we meet another human . I do not think of sex. I look a smile. I hear a laugh, I see emotion when some one dies, I do not see sex, nor will sex control me to judge any man or women. It is not my Job. Because the body I did not create. The one who gave it to us is the one who has the right.
          Hatred is not a fruit of God's spirit. If you do you are not a child of God.

          1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
            Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I do not hate anyone.  Liberals define hatred as anyone who disagrees with them!  They use the term as a political strategy.

            1. Kiss andTales profile image22
              Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I notice that this word is used a lot. We can not hate people we do not know. Maybe the issue of what the topic is about is not shared by everyone, as I tried to explain with peanut butter. People want to live as they please . I heard a saying one time ,we may say it ,but it may not be right to say it.  In this case
              There are things that only God can do. But we should never push ahead to condemn no one. But we can work on ourself, we can explain why we believe what we believe. For His gift of life is given to all, what people do with their gift is up to them.

              1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I am not condemning anyone, I pointed out what is happening to Christian businesses and employees because of the Gay Agenda.  I am however, saying that homosexuality is a sin and that is biblical.  John the Baptist also pointed out that Herod was sinning and he paid with his head.  Jesus called him the greatest prophet.  I don't think you understand the Bible or Christianity at all.

                1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh I do understand . I know the subject very well and have learned from others that have the strong believe in the lifestyle , but what  I have also learned is that they have aright to decide for them-self.  We can show scripture, we can explain what we have learned. It does not mean nothing if they can not respond from the heart.  We are all equal as humans. It does not sit right to say I am on the level of God to judge you ,to say you will go here if you live this  life. Will you help by irritating some one,or will you show them why you believe what you know. Another thing  I assumed all people knew what I know. Wrong. Many people do not know. It is a language of spirituality.
                  Like Latin, we do not know it to be common ,but Doctors learn it and use it.
                  Would it be right to tell a doctor you are evil or bad because you use a language I do not understand ? Well it would be pointless. I learned people come from different backgrounds,,cultures,there are some who never worship God at all. There are people who only believe what they can see,  So many different reasons and beliefs. Also Some believes go way back from the flood of Noah, Nimrod who went against the teachings Of the true God .the time of Pharaoh in Egypt when there were many gods. When you speak you just might be talking to someone like this . That would be pretty mixed up on your hub.

                2. Kiss andTales profile image22
                  Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I understand Brie what we know and read from the bible we know this as truth. The problem is you have people that do not read or recognize the bible as truth. They believe in something else .and their life would reflect it also. They are saying that have just as much a right to live as we do . We did not make the law from the bible. We did not put this book togather under our own power. If so there would not be a book calked the bible . Because it would be destoyed base on the many opinions and life styles of humans. But our life is not based on our fellow human to do as I do  and do as I say. We are all equal.
                  Besides the Author of the bible invites . And it is up to him to allow them to understand. As he see fit.

                  1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The Bible testifies that they DO know the truth but that they suppress it.   Read the book of Romans.

                    I never said that they don't have a right to do as they please, they have the freedom to choose..what I say is that the Bible says if they do so they will be judged.  All people must come to know Jesus Christ, repent of all sins and be saved.

                3. relache profile image88
                  relacheposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm going to go ask my lesbian friend who graduated from seminary school a month ago if she can explain why a Christain such as herself embraces radical acceptance versus your viewpoint.  I anticipate her answer will be interesting.

                  1. Aime F profile image83
                    Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I've been thinking about this as well. My aunt is a proud Christian and also proud supporter of the 'Gay Agenda'. It seems to me there must be different ways to interpret the Bible/Christianity, so suggesting that someone not understand their own religion because their views are not exactly consistent with theirs seems to imply a lack of understanding separate from religion.

                4. cfin profile image77
                  cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Not condemning anyone? You just wrote how in certain countries they kill gay people.

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    To kill anyone is a crime against God. It does not state if he is gay ,if he is anything. The point is it wrong. I do not go around trying to smash and bash people's decisions . They live for them self. I for my self, I may die tomorrow but God's law still will stand . It did when I came into the world.

                  2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    In certain countries they kill Christians too.

                  3. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    CATHOLICS DID NOT WRITE THE BIBle, Jews did.

        3. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
          Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You should study history man. People have been slaughtered by the millions since the coming of Jesus Christ...all because they would not renounce their faith in Him. Gay people have indeed been threatened and mistreated for their choice....but to say more Gays have been hurt or threatened for their beliefs than Christians is an error.

          1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
            Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you Joshua-C-Rarrick for your well informed comments!

          2. cfin profile image77
            cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            No, it's not because gay people didn't march around the world getting in peoples faces and having wars over their religion and they do NOT force their religion on people. In fact, Christians have killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of religion since the time of Jesus, have they not? Cruisades, holy wars etc etc. It's much different to count the Christians killed in battle while trying to force their views on people, when compared to the gay people who are killed with nail bombs while having a drink in their local bar.

            Do you agree with persecution of gay people Josh and Brie?

            1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Those were not Christians, those people were Catholics.

              1. cfin profile image77
                cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Catholics are christian. Oh my gosh, that has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard any one saying who claims to be some kind of christian expert. Catholicism is the largest christian denomination AND the original christian denomination.

                OH MY..............HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! That comment was so ignorant that it is offensive. Read a book. Who wrote the bible? Oh my GOSH, I can't believe how uneducated you are. Do us all a favor, including me, a catholic, and google the word catholic.

                1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                  Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The Bible tells us to obey the Word of God--to not go beyond the written Word (1 Cor. 4:6). Unfortunately, the problem with an elevated status of Roman Catholic church tradition is that it results in various justifications of its non-biblical teachings such as prayer to Mary, purgatory, indulgences, penance, works of righteousness, etc.  Because it has deviated from trusting God's Word alone, it has ventured into unscriptural areas.  Nevertheless, did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible?  No, it did not.

                  First of all, the Roman Catholic Church was not really around as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church.  The Christian church was under persecution, and official church gatherings were very risky in the Roman Empire due to the persecution.  Catholicism, as an organization with a central figure located in Rome, did not occur for quite some time in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.

                  Second, the Christian Church recognized what was Scripture. It did not establish it. This is a very important point.  The Christian Church recognizes what God has inspired and pronounces that recognition.  In other words, it discovers what is already authentic.  Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me . . . " (John 10:27). The church hears the voice of Christ; that is, it recognizes what is inspired, and it follows the word.  It does not add to it as the Roman Catholic Church has done.  Therefore, it is not following the voice of Christ.

                  Third, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament which is the Scripture to which Christ and the apostles appealed.  If the Roman Catholic Church wants to state that it gave us the Bible, then how can they rightfully claim to have given us the Old Testament which is part of the Bible?  It didn't, so it cannot make that claim.  The fact is that the followers of God, the true followers of God, recognize what is and is not inspired.

                  Fourth, when the apostles wrote the New Testament documents, they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit.  There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic.   Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church.  To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself that worked through the Apostles.

                  Fifth, the Scripture says, "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." (2 Pet. 1:20-21). The Bible tells us that the Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the very nature of the inspired documents is that they carry power and authenticity in themselves. They are not given the power or the authenticity of ecclesiastical declaration.

                  Conclusion

                  The Christian church, as an earthly organization, recognized the Word of God (John 10:27).  It didn't give us the Word of God.  Also, it was the Jews who gave us the Old Testament. The authenticity of the New Testament documents rests in the inspiration of God through the apostles--not the Catholic Church. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church did not give us the Old Testament. The Jews did. How can the RCC claim it gave us the Bible when it did not give us the Old Testament? Finally, when the Catholic Church claims that it is the source of the sacred Scriptures, it is, in effect, placing itself above the word of God by claiming that through its authority we received the word of God.

                  1. 0
                    Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Good thing that the Roman Catholic Church has never actually made that assertion then, huh? Maybe cfin was pointing out that they were in fact responsible for the canon of scripture that you recognize today as inspired by God.  Oddly enough, it was later Protestant churches who chose to remove (clearly against the words of your scripture) the apocrypha.

                2. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  EXACTLY...HA!!!

          3. Kiss andTales profile image22
            Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I must agree with JCR many Jews have died, Many Christians for the pure truth or apostles of Jesus ,many others to mention In the name of religion. I see no where in the bible where people walked with Jesus and died for Gay rights. The problem here is you have people who believe in the law of the bible. They follow Jesus Steps closely even to deny them self pleasure of their liking ,the scripture that is out right and speaks for it self .  Reference Bible Le 18:22 “‘And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.  Also in King James Version as said  Le 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
            People have lived and done as they please ,but people who are more spiritual conscious are very sensitive about their God and creator. They would not want to do anything that would cause a judgement of disapproval  to God .it is written . No Christian made the law. It is Gods word for us.

            1. cfin profile image77
              cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Hahaha hahahaha! And you lot are the enlightened ones, chosen to spread your interpretation of the bible. And you wonder why people avoid going to church.
              And the bible told us that women cannot speak out or teach men? Is that also law then?

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Why do you use that line to cover the truth you could say that is true in the bible. What is your excuse not to accept the word of God who is over us all. Pictures are deceiving , it is possible my males in the family wrote this ,now what is your excuse.

                1. cfin profile image77
                  cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I would ask a man the same question. You're quite strange to think I wouldn't.  I'm a man and have an interest in equality for women. We aren't all selfish and we don' all just look out for our own interests.

              2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                From an email:  I have a question to add to the many I am sure you get daily.  My Husband would hold to the views that you hold on women in ministry . . . I do also.  The question I have for you is this.  We are conducting a Bible study . . . My husband would like for me to co-teach with him.  He feels this is OK because He would be the leader and I would be assisting him.  Since there would be men attending this study I am not sure if this would be OK.  I think that teaching the subject of history regarding these doctrines would be OK for me (the class is the Doctrines of Grace)  My husband feels that I have much insight to add to this subject ( I have been studying the Doctrines of Grace, for many years) and wants me to have input.  I love to teach . . . it is my passion in life.  However, I do not want to be out of line, or set a bad example for the women who will be attending this study.  Would you give me your thoughts on this.

                Response: Women are not to be elders and pastors as the Scriptures teach since those positions automatically have authority in the church, and elders are to be male, the husbands of one wife.  I do not see how assisting your husband in a Bible study is exercising any authority over people who might be present.  So, I would think that you would be free to expound on Scripture the same as anyone else would be in a Bible study.

                When I have taught Bible studies and my wife has been present, she has often added excellent insight into the Scriptures--as have other women.  Her female perspective is often helpful, and I enjoy hearing what she has to say.  But she is not exercising authority and/or teaching men (authoritatively) when explaining what she thinks a scripture means.  She is not acting as an elder or pastor.

                Now, I believe that in 1 Tim. 2:12 when Paul says, "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet," Paul is referring to the church context in the church office of elder.  After all, 1 Tim. 3:15 says to Timothy, " . . . I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." Paul is teaching us how the church is to be run, and the teaching issue deals with the authority structure in the church.  Therefore, I see them related as does Paul:  teach or exercise authority.

                Of course, if we were to take the phrase "not allow a woman to teach or excise authority over a man" and remove it from the context of elder and pastor, we would then need to require that all women never even express an opinion about Scripture whenever men are present.  This would be, of course, ridiculous.

            2. Susana S profile image92
              Susana Sposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You might want to keep an open mind about your interpretation of that passage. The evidence points to a wholly different meaning. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/levi … osexuality

              1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                The scripture used is based from the Hebrew and Greek ,Any other meaning is adjusted by opposers of truth. Check the date of the one who wrote a different meaning to the truth.King James Version Le 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. That is clear as it gets.

                1. jlpark profile image89
                  jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  And if you take it out of context - scriptural (by removing it from it's surrounding scripture), historical (by ignoring the time it was written and what was going on for the population of the time), and cultural - you are merely cherry picking. The surrounding verses of that verse are giving instruction to all on sexual habits mostly heterosexual. The time of the verse is a time of trying to forge an existence in the desert - non-reproductive sex would not be useful in this situation.

                  Do you follow all of Leviticus' laws? If you are Jewish, and do so, then I completely understand your view.  If you are not, and do not follow all the laws in Lev yet expect everyone else to...that is hypocritical.

                  The books were translated from Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek (depending on which books), translation bias happens....it's why "yada" in Genesis has been translated for some reason as "to know sexually" and the REST of the Bible has "yada" translated as "to know" (not sexually) - If you aren't reading the bible in it's original languages, you can't be sure there is no bias.

                  1. Kiss andTales profile image22
                    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Cherry picking over the brightest red cherry it is Levitcus  18:22 ,also this verse is also in many other  translation, meaning and saying the same. It is a cherry! Next you want to know if I am Jewish! God knows ,You want to know if I am a hypocrite !  God knows  ,and he is the only one that will know the truth to that answer, because it is all about him in the end. I answer to no man for my life. I accept scripture I do not make excuses for God's word. And I do realize people also have the same right as I do. So if you are questioning me because of God's written word then you really are questioning him. I just read and follow.

  24. Brie Hoffman profile image82
    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago

    FYI:

    This is hubpages response:

    Ads were disabled on your Hub because it advocates against a group. This type of content is against AdSense policy. Please visit the AdSense content policy site for more information. You can click on the example tab on the AdSense policy site for more detail.

    Your Hub is considered too sensitive for advertisers. We want Hubs that are well-written and important to remain published, even if they cover topics that are too sensitive to be advertiser-friendly. Your Hub will remain published and your HubScore will not be impacted.

    Apparently, it was not Hubpages that removed my ads it was Adsense/Google

    Here is the Adsense Criteria:


    Content that advocates against an individual, group, or organization

    What's the policy?

    Google believes strongly in the freedom of expression, but also recognizes the need to protect the quality of the AdSense network for users, advertisers, and publishers.

    Google ads aren't permitted on sites that contain harassing or bullying content, or on content that incites hatred or promotes violence against individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity. Additionally, Google ads may not appear on content that incites or advocates for harm against an individual or group.

    However, websites containing educational, documentary, historical, scientific, or artistic content related to such subjects are permitted to participate in AdSense.

    Examples
    Examples*


    Acceptable    Not acceptable
    Political advertising sites (and other political content) as long as they are not hate-related or advocating for harm against another party
    Satire sites that do not advocate violence or target hateful content against an individual or group
    Religious organization sites as long as they are not hate-related or advocating against another religious organization
    Consumer awareness sites (e.g., review sites, both positive and negative)
    Academic material or case studies about harassment in the workplace
    Sites with content that advocates/condones violence or makes threats of harm against an individual or group
    Sites with harassing or bullying content
    Sites with content that incites or promotes hatred against a group or individuals
    Content that encourages others to believe that a group or individual is inhuman or inferior
    Content that attacks a person or group on the basis sexual orientation or gender identity

    In some small way I am glad that it wasn't Hubpages that removed the ads and that they do, at least, adhere to freedom of speech, at least for the present time, by allowing my article to be published.

    1. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting.  That's what everyone's been telling you since page one.  roll

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Ummm, no.

    2. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So, you were rejected by a company for being yourself? How does it feel hypocrite?

  25. Cardisa profile image89
    Cardisaposted 2 years ago

    I wish staff would close this thread!

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You are free to walk away.

      1. Cardisa profile image89
        Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        All I meant was that this thread has gotten out of hand. Though I don't agree with some of  arguments in your hub, I don't see why some of the comments here should be rude. I fear that someone may get banned if this debate continues.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It seems to me that the best way for that to happen is to stop posting on it.

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
      MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      But then a hub than no one would have likely read would stop getting views from people who want to argue. That would be a shame.

  26. Mark Ewbie profile image83
    Mark Ewbieposted 2 years ago

    Our Christian Business sells crosses and candles.  And rip-off Holy Water which my mate Dave says comes out of a tap.

    The Moslem Stone shop does a good trade at weekends but they do cut the hands off shoplifters

    The Gay shop is struggling since they started selling pink peanut butter.

    The Lesbian shop is much better but it is only open to women who munch.

    The Jewish shop have lost trade after surrounding the Palestinian shop next door with barbed wire.

    On balance I prefer to shop at Tesco.  It is the UK equivalent of Walmart I think.  They serve anybody and keep their views to themselves.

  27. Kiss andTales profile image22
    Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago

    We all are in the same boat, and guess what we do not own the boat . We might know the truth , but the truth has to become their  own by choice, They have to say it in their heart. This is about a relationship between the creator and that individual not a threesome. ,we can not force the union of God and another human.and especially by beating them down with the bible . No different then trying to make a person love you ,when they really do not from the heart.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      My article isn't beating anyone down.

      1. Kiss andTales profile image22
        Kiss andTalesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe  you did not mean it ,but your hub have caused quite a stir the truth no problem .but you can not force people to accept it . By saying and quoting judgment. If you feel they know what the bible says,then why irritate them about what is written. If you want to gain some one, pointing out their error is not what Christ did. He gave them the reason to change on their own. He set a loving example . He got to know people on a personal level,  that is why we can not say what people will and will not do.

      2. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Brie, do you believe in persecuting gays as the bible advises?

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If you are talking about the laws that ruled Israel during a Theocracy, no we are not under those laws but that doesn't mean that God has changed His mind, homosexuality is still an abomination to Him.

          1. cfin profile image77
            cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You do know that Catholics are Christian right?

  28. Volleyballswaggie profile image61
    Volleyballswaggieposted 2 years ago

    I think you are very correct when it comes to your opinion on both topics. Many websites (such as Facebook) discriminate against those who are against liberalism. I'm very sorry that that has happened to you; our first amendment is slowly being taken away from us.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks "Volleyballswaggie", it's nice to hear from a kindred hubber.

    2. ChristinS profile image94
      ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Freedom of speech is alive and well.  What most people don't like is that free speech also has consequences.  You want to spread hate speech, advertisers choose not to associate with you.  Look how many sponsors Rush Limbaugh has lost of late.  On the other side of the coin Bill Maher exercised his freedom of speech and got booted off politically incorrect.  Two completely different ends of the political spectrum, so let's stop demonizing liberals and conservatives and being victims.  It's absurd. It's not a loss of freedom of speech - it's facing the consequences of ones actions.  period.  You violate the Adsense TOS, you get ads yanked from your hubs - happens to people here all the time.  You want to experience a real lack of freedom? There's a lot of places in the world that you could visit and perhaps regain some much needed perspective on your supposed persecution.

    3. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Discrimination is a "negative". It cannot be a double negative. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You cannot be discriminated against for someone telling you to cease discrimination. I.E the KKK cannot claim we are discriminating against the when they are told to stop their discrimination.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Everyone discriminates..I mean would you allow your children to be babysat by a pedophile?  No, you discriminate and say no.  Therefore not all discrimination is bad.

        1. Cardisa profile image89
          Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I wouldn't call that discriminating, I'd call it common sense. Pedophilia is a crime. No one wants to associate themselves with criminals. Discrimination based on race, creed or sexual orientation is quite different.

          1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
            Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Homosexuality was and still is a crime in many places.  There is no difference.  I guess  you are just a hater.

            1. peeples profile image88
              peeplesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You are comparing pedophiles, which hurt and scar children forever to two law abiding gay people wanting to have the same rights as straight people. As someone who is bisexual and a victim of long term pedophilia, you are as close to hate as you can get!

              http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9028380_f248.jpg

            2. cfin profile image77
              cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Done!! Please everyone stop posting here. I am convinced that no one can be seriously this.....

          2. cfin profile image77
            cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            in·sane
            inˈsān
            adjective
            in a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.
            "certifying patients as clinically insane"
            synonyms:    mentally ill, mentally disordered, of unsound mind, certifiable; More
            antonyms:    sane
            (of an action or quality) characterized or caused by madness.
            "charging headlong in an insane frenzy"
            synonyms:    maniacal, psychotic, crazed, hysterical More
            antonyms:    normal
            in a state of extreme annoyance or distraction.
            "a fly whose buzzing had been driving me insane"
            synonyms:    mad, crazy;
            antonyms:    calm, contented
            (of an action or policy) extremely foolish; irrational or illogical.
            "she had an insane desire to giggle"
            synonyms:    foolish, idiotic, stupid, silly, senseless, nonsensical, absurd, ridiculous, ludicrous, lunatic, preposterous, fatuous, inane, asinine, harebrained, half-baked;
            antonyms:    sensible
            mid 16th century: from Latin insanus, from in- ‘not’ + sanus ‘healthy.’

            1. Cardisa profile image89
              Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              lol lol hahaha. You made my day big_smile

            2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Spewing hate:  name calling!

              1. cfin profile image77
                cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not name calling. I am explaining the definition of insanity. i.e to state that I am not a christian because I am Catholic (original Christianity).

                1. bBerean profile image60
                  bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  313 years of Christianity took place before Constantine, and Christianity survived in spite of Catholicism's attempts to absorb, distort and destroy it.  Protestantism represents some of the Catholic church returning to a degree, to the original Christianity, but believers following Christ's teachings existed all the while, in spite of either.

                  1. 0
                    mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Do you understand the origins of Evangelical Christianity? Do you understand that it is an 18th and 19th century invention?

                    Do you understand that not all Protestants are Evangelical or Biblical literalists?

                  2. cfin profile image77
                    cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    bBerean. Christians are people who believe in Christ. All Christians have origins in Catholicism. The Catholic church poor past is irrelevant to it's modern day 1.2 billion followers. To say they are not Christian is more than offensive and hateful. Protestants and Catholics have very similar belief systems and all believe in Christ together. You seem to be here to segregate bBerean while I couldn't give to flips if you are protestant or Catholic.

                    Catholicism originates in the time of St.Peter, not 313 years before Constantine. We are not arguing about protestantism and Catholicism and their minor differences. We are saying that Catholics are Christian. I am not a fanatic and enjoy unity not segregation and ranting about how we are all different. That is all.

  29. peeples profile image88
    peeplesposted 2 years ago

    If my ads get pulled for child abuse awareness hubs then I am glad that your hub which clearly is hate speech, to anyone who isn't anti gay people, got it's ads pulled also.  The rules are in place for a reason. If you don't like it find a different writing platform. Don't violate the rules of the people you expect to pay you.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I've got news for you ..disagreeing with someone is NOT hate speech!

      1. peeples profile image88
        peeplesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No, but I read that hub, and anyone who isn't already of the "lets talk down on an entire group of people" mentality can see that it is clearly a hate hub!

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I think it's hateful to call something hateful when it's clearly NOT.

          1. peeples profile image88
            peeplesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You basicly said that because of gay people we were living in the end of times! You clearly stated that business owners should have the right to discriminate an entire group of people (wait that didn't go over so well when it was black people). Back your hate up all day with the "christians are being attacked" theory, but reality is you called wanting equal rights an "agenda" (like it was a bad thing)  and that people should discriminate against them. If not hate what would you call that?

            1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              If pedophiles said that they wanted equal rights to be able to marry minors would being against that be considered discrimination or hate?

              1. Cardisa profile image89
                Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                What? Are you comparing pedophilia with homosexuality? Pedophilia is a crime, homosexuality is not!

                1. peeples profile image88
                  peeplesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You said it before I had a chance to Cardisa.

                2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                  Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Don't try to get out of it..you are a hater and you discriminate.  Mark my words pedophilia will be accepted just like homosexuality in the near future.

                  1. ChristinS profile image94
                    ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                     

                    Wow, I was angry, but now I am just sad for you.  How stifling it must be to live with that much anger and ignorance about the world around you and the people in it.  The sad thing is, it's people with your mindset that drove a young person I know to attempt suicide.  Kids bullied him relentlessly for being who he was - and he was born that way.  Those same kids sat in pews every Sunday. They and you clearly have no understanding of the real world and how it actually works.  I couldn't stand living with that kind of fear and anger in my heart every day. I hope that you will open your mind and heart and broaden your horizons before it's too late Brie - seriously.

                  2. Cardisa profile image89
                    Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    OMG! I'm baffled....

                  3. Aime F profile image83
                    Aime Fposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    What a disgusting thing to say. I don't understand how you can sit here and pretend nothing you're saying is hateful while at the same time suggesting that accepting homosexuality is somehow similar to accepting pedophilia.

                    You accused someone of not understanding the Bible and Christianity... Well, I'm not sure you seem to understand much outside of those things.

                  4. jlpark profile image89
                    jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I was going to firstly answer this question calmly, and then I got to this one.
                    Brie - do you not understand CONSENT??????

                    Two CONSENTING adults doing what they wish, marrying who they wish gender wise - as long as both are adults and BOTH consent - hurts NO ONE. It is not a crime in most places due to consenting adults consenting to it.

                    Paedophilia is a crime - children CANNOT consent (to consent one needs to understand all the information, and be free from coercion) to sexual intercourse - therefore paedophilia is RAPE.
                    To force someone (coerce etc) to have sex is RAPE - child, woman, man.

                    Oh, and just to make it clear - most paedo's are actually straight - regardless of the gender of child they molest.

                3. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                  MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  On a completely unrelated topic, did you know that a huge percentage of Fox news watchers are liberal? It seems funny when you think about it.  The people who disagree with them most are helping to keep the network afloat.

                  It seems there are two ways to get loyal watchers, have them very much agree with you or have them very much disagree with you. The reason Fox is so successful is they give very polar arguments. That way, they capture both the love and the hate. It's actually a brilliant business plan and the reason yellow journalism has beaten unbiased news into the ground.

                  Private interviews with Nancy Grace's friends, for example, has turned up that she is neither as stupid nor as conservative as she portrays herself. She is playing to an audience and enjoys the irony that those who hate her the most have paid for her home and car.

                  Just an interesting side topic to distract you. I know these kind of things upset you smile

                  1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I don't watch Fox news or any network news..so I guess you'll have to come up with something else that upsets me or..maybe get a life!

                  2. Cardisa profile image89
                    Cardisaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Melissa, were you addressing me? Sorry I got distracted...lol. I see your message here. Thanks for the insight smile

  30. janshares profile image88
    jansharesposted 2 years ago

    Please. In the name of world peace and community harmony, I'd like to make a motion to close this thread. Let's all just leave. C'mon, let's go. Just turn around, keep walking to the exits. Come, let's go, yes that's it, keep going. Shut the door. Okay, now - back away. Good. The end.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Funny, because by posting ..you just keep it going..some things just boggle the mind!

  31. Sychophantastic profile image83
    Sychophantasticposted 2 years ago

    Brie, perhaps you can also illuminate us on all the interesting things the Bible has to say about women, menstruation, and punishments for rape and whether or not you adhere to those?

    And btw, "gay" is not a lifestyle choice. Most gay people have no choice about it. They are born that way. In other words, created by God as gay.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      All those things you mentioned were for the Jews to live under a Theocracy.  And regards to your last sentence..I disagree BUT it doesn't matter even  if you are correct because God said that sex is only permitted between a man and a woman in marriage.  So, even people who are heterosexual are not permitted to have sex outside marriage.

      1. jlpark profile image89
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        All those things he mentioned are mentioned in the same Chapter as "one should not lie with a man as one does with a woman" - Leviticus

        If "All those things" were for the Jews, and therefore not for you - why then is it used for the homosexual?? Surely, if you as a Christian do not need to follow the rules, then neither should the homosexual? Can you not see the error in your statement?  OR are you saying that those laws are only for the Jewish Homosexual?

      2. 0
        mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        OMG!!!

        We are all freakin' damned to hell!

  32. csmiravite-blogs profile image88
    csmiravite-blogsposted 2 years ago

    Thanks for closing the doors on this thread, janshares. The debate is not getting anywhere.

    Oh, goodness gracious!  Have a good day everyone!  smile

    writer_csm

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for opening it up again "csmiravite-blogs.

      1. csmiravite-blogs profile image88
        csmiravite-blogsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Nope, I agreed to the closing.

        writer_csm

  33. jlpark profile image89
    jlparkposted 2 years ago

    Brie - I write health articles, and articles about homosexuality and the bible, homosexuality in general, and same-sex marriage.

    I have a hub with disabled ads that is in regards to sexual health for lesbians - am I complaining that the religious agenda is discriminating against me or lesbians because my hub has disabled ads? No. It is within the terms of positing that topics of a sexual nature will not have ads - due to adsenses rules. 

    I have read your hub, and can see why the ads were disabled.  If you wish to earn money off of it - adjust it to suit the rules of Hubpages, and it will earn you money.  OR if you aren't doing it for that, if you believe that your message is important enough to not be removed even if it's not making you any money - then leave it - like I did with the Lesbian Sexual Health one.

    Also....can you tell me where I get a copy of this Gay Agenda??? They seem to hand it out somewhere, and I didn't get one!. Is it only given at church, cause the only people I know who have a copy are Christian, but none of my gay friends have a copy.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Not all agendas have vision statements written down.

      1. jlpark profile image89
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        You completely missed the point. I don't need a copy of something that doesn't actually exist. And ignored the rest of the statment....avoiding the topic at hand

  34. word55 profile image84
    word55posted 2 years ago

    Gay people are not going to change because of your opinion or viewpoint so just let them be. That's the best thing to do. Now your ads are disabled. You've defeated your purpose for writing. Vengeance is God's alone.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The only ads that are disabled are for that one article.  I would have written it regardless.  Gays should leave Christians alone which was the topic of my article in case you didn't read it.

      1. jlpark profile image89
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And Christians should leave gays alone, and everyone would be happy.  We should bake cakes for anyone if that is our business, because baking a cake doesn't mean you agree with the cause it is for....it means you bake cakes for a job.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, that is never going to happen.  True Christians will obey God over man every time.

  35. word55 profile image84
    word55posted 2 years ago

    Who or what do you agree with my sister?

  36. jlpark profile image89
    jlparkposted 2 years ago

    Just took a look at my own hubs - the Lesbian Sexual health has all money making things on it disabled - as evidenced by the wee $ with a slash through it on my account page - for obvious reasons.

    The Biblically Homosexual and Bibilcal Homosexuality 2: Leviticus also has ads disabled...why? Because the word homosexual is in the hub, and title.

    A couple of others do not mention homosexuality, and speak of same-sex issues without breaking the TOS for adsense and have their ads on them.

    Brie - it's not an agenda or discrimination against you personally, or your views. It's just how hubpages and adsense find a way to work together. You and I are on opposite sides of the LGBT debate, yet we both have hubs on gay issues that have disabled ads. If your message is important to you to get out there, the ads don't matter.

    AAAANNNNDD...I'm out.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I addressed this earlier in this posting..as it turns out it wasn't Hubpages at all, it was Adsense..look at the earlier postings.

      1. jlpark profile image89
        jlparkposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And I'm aware of that - I know and have always known it was Adsense - I was merely telling you it's not discriminatory against yr hub and views as mine are the polar opposite and are also disabled.

  37. 60
    StillStandingNowposted 2 years ago

    Why bother spitting?  What's the "agenda"? They leave you alone, you leave them alone. How hard is it?  The same book that you think makes the rules against them living their lives as they see fit while bothering no one, tells you that you are inferior to all men.  Now THAT is an agenda of I have ever seen one. Just sayin'.

  38. limpet profile image60
    limpetposted 2 years ago

    When television was first introduced we enjoyed the commercial breaks as much as the programme content because in those days the ads were cute, witty and non repetitious. In this day and age the only thing humorous in advertising is the mentality of the cretins that devise them!

  39. SmartAndFun profile image92
    SmartAndFunposted 2 years ago

    This thread is now at 16 pages of arguing. It is a shame, considering that about a year ago Brie was given the same advice she got in this thread.

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/110039

    Brie, why did you start this thread when you already knew the drill about AdSense and sensitive words and topics?

    Was it to draw attention and drive traffic to your article? I ask because of your last comment in the old thread: "I'd rather have the money."

  40. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
    Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago

    I love these posts claiming that Catholicism is the original Christianity. However, much of their doctrine DIRECTLY contradicts what the Bible says. Case in point:Matthew 23:9

    9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven......
    Ummm hmmm...nuff said on that one....

    Here's another one:


    Page Options
    Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on email

        <<
        <
        =
        =
        >
        >>

    Show resources
    Add parallel
    1 Timothy 3

    King James Version (KJV)

    3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

    Hmmm A husband...not a celibate man...hmmm not given to wine....nuff said


    I could go on, but why?

    Catholics claim Peter as the first pope, yet there is no proof of that. Peter was a leader in the early church, and Catholicism did spring from early Christianity. However, to teach that the virgin mother is more important than Christ himself, well that's preposterous. Also, what do Catholics do with the 10 Commandments...ie Thou shalt have NO other Gods before me...Thou shalt not make unto thee ANY graven image.... Yet we see statues of Mary worshipped on a regular basis...


    To say that Christianity came from Catholicism is backwards and completely inaccurate. It was the other way around completely.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Amen Brother

      Don't forget the unbiblical doctrine of Purgatory
      <link snipped>

    2. 0
      Motown2Chitownposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What do your kids call you? The man who fertilized my mother's egg?

      A bishop shall be the man of "only one wife," as opposed to multiple wives - a common biblical practice. Celibacy is not a deal breaker. The Church has had married priests and bishops in the past and may well move in that direction in the future. Clerical celibacy came about as a means to avoid the abuses of nepotism and other corruptions that come from wanting special treatment for one's own family. Not unique to Catholic Christians.

      No graven images? Have pictures of your family? Get rid of those. Any pictures of Jesus is your home?  Those have to go. 

      It is a common misconception that Catholics worship Mary.  We pay her high honor as the mother of God, because, oh, wait, that's what she's called in the bible-check the gospel of Luke when she visits Elizabeth during her pregnancy. She is never, ever, ever, ever, ever said to be more important than Jesus or God the Father. EVER.

      Now.  If you want to know the real teachings of the Church, look into them before you start picking them apart. 

      http://usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ … /index.cfm

      Grab a bible for cross reference purposes.

      Are their Catholics who have done bad things?  Yep.  Catholics who overemphasize facets of Church doctrines? Yep. Protestants and fundamentalists as well.  You know, like Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Fred Phelos, Warren Jeffs.  People do things wrong.

      As to Catholics being the first Christians...well, Jews were actually the first Christians, so no argument there.  Catholicism as an institution, however, is the only currently existing denomination that can trace it's history back to biblical times.  Has it, in many ways, turned away from early Christian practices?  Yep.  Find me a modern Christian denomination that hasn't.

      If you don't like being judged by the actions of a few Christians who have perverted their faith or broken commandments or acted like jerks, don't do it to others - who, whether you like it or not, are your brothers and sisters in Christ.

  41. MelissaBarrett profile image61
    MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago

    Is everyone really arguing for the title of "Most Persecuted?" Is there a trophy?

    Here's my vote... Think I'm going to go with the Jews.

    1. Stevennix2001 profile image84
      Stevennix2001posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      what about native americans? tongue

      1. MelissaBarrett profile image61
        MelissaBarrettposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Nah, the numbers are too small... although a huge shout out to the Christians for completely eradicating the Native American tribalism.

        If it's a numbers game, the Hindus have it.

        If it's a length of persecution thing, the Jews have it hands down. Everyone has taken a shot at them.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I dunno - didn't their chief prosecutor get after the Egyptians pretty bad, and for doing exactly what the Jews were instructed to do?  Take slaves, that is?

    2. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So AM I.   The Jews were the MOST persecuted religious group throughout history from ancient times until now.  There was no other religious/spiritual group similarly persecuted throughout history.

      1. Zelkiiro profile image85
        Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And if you're looking for a 2nd Place silver medalist, you gotta go with the Native Americans. And for the bronze, you can't go wrong with the Kurds.

        1. psycheskinner profile image80
          psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I imagine some religious groups that were totally exterminated might disagree?  Animism, for example, used to be pretty common and is now almost non-existent due to colonizations and cultural imperialism.

  42. Sychophantastic profile image83
    Sychophantasticposted 2 years ago

    Just want to make sure Brie and everyone else is up on the various things the Bible prohibits in addition to homosexuality:

    Tattoos (any Christians with tattoos out there?)
    Rounded haircuts
    Men with injured private parts entering the House of God
    Consulting psychics
    Gossiping
    Wives helping out there husbands in a fight
    Eating a ham sandwich
    Children cursing at their parents
    Getting remarried after getting divorced
    Working on the sabbath
    Women speaking in church
    Eating shrimp, lobster, and other assorted seafood
    Losing your virginity before getting married

    1. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly!

    2. Jayne Lancer profile image90
      Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      +1

    3. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I addressed all of this previously in this post..it's very long and detailed which might explain why you chose to overlook  or ignore it.

      1. 0
        mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Right---because you or your church or your pastor has decided not only to cherry-pick your Bible but to reconstitute its applicability as not universal but targeted, and as such, has determined that these rules---basically ALL of the rules related to everything except homosexuality, apply to Jews only and/or are somehow not related to some larger "moral" code which rests entirely on prohibition of homosexuality.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The Bible itself says which laws are for the Jews and which are universal.  You ARE the one cherry picking what to obey and what not to obey.  You know it's wrong and yet you hold the truth in unrighteousness and twist the scriptures to your own destruction.

          1. Jayne Lancer profile image90
            Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Hilarious.

            1. cfin profile image77
              cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Brie, If my dog humps another male dog, should he be refused service of dog food at walmart?

            2. 0
              mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Past hilarious!

              And what the heck does "hold the truth in unrighteousness" mean?

              1. Jayne Lancer profile image90
                Jayne Lancerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If I don't laugh, I'll cry.

                1. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So true...so very true.

                  1. gmwilliams profile image85
                    gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Mindboggling isn't it?

              2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It means that you all know that homosexuality is wrong and yet you continue to assert that it is right.

                1. JMcFarland profile image91
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  But that's a lie,  and there's no proof.   Next?

                  1. Sychophantastic profile image83
                    Sychophantasticposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That's like saying that breathing is wrong, at least for people who are born gay.

    4. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Definitely!  According to the Bible, women should always be submissive to their husbands, obeying the latter in everything.  It also stated that women should be as unobtrusive as possible in everyday affairs.  The Bible is an allegorical book and VERY FEW people take it serious or literally..  It still amazes me that there ARE people out there who still go by the Bible, c'mon now!

      1. 0
        mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly!

        Sometimes I just cannot believe that ANYONE takes the Bible seriously as anything other than a collection of myths and allegories and fables.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There ARE folks out there who DO take the Bible seriously and look at you quite glaringly if you indicate that the Bible is a book of fables.  Such people will actually try to "save'  you and state that you are "in error."  See such people around.   Have some in my maternal family.  It's sad how they elect to let an outdated morality guide them in a postmodern society.   This is quite puzzling!  One of my sociology professors stated that people let themselves be ruled by the dead.

          1. 0
            mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Interesting concept: "Ruled by the dead".

            I know, sadly, how very real this "rule by the dead" and rule by book of fictions and fables can be.

            My wife's father was "born again Christian" after marrying a woman (within weeks of the death of the mother of his children) who was steeped in Evangelical Christianity.

            He was a relentless bigot and abuser and justified everything he did through scriptures and in terms of his being, as he would say, "right with Jesus."

            He disowned my wife when he deemed her "lifestyle" sinful and in conflict with his Bible.

            1. cfin profile image77
              cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Like "Lord of the Rings?". Man, that Gandalf is cool! "You shall not pass". That means when a man with a beard stands in A Doorway, we should all wait until he moves. THIS, is the word of Gandalf.

              It's a book too!!....so.....

              1. 0
                mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                smile

            2. gmwilliams profile image85
              gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, there ARE those who are ruled by the dead.  Instead of fully living in the postmodern era, they adhere to outmoded religions and philosophies which have no place in postmodern society.   It is sad that your wife was disowned by her father.  However, many religious people disown their children because the latter refuse to accept the latter's religious precepts.  It isn't unusual that many religious people feel that their children SHOULD believe the same as they do.  The former become quite manic if their children elect to no longer adhere to the former's religions.   There are many people out there who nominally believe and do lip service to a religion because if they do not, they will face family disapproval, ostracism, or worse.

        2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          2 Timothy 3:16

          All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

  43. FatFreddysCat profile image92
    FatFreddysCatposted 2 years ago

    Awww, crap. Guess what I had for lunch?

    See you in Hell everybody. (*kicks rock*)

  44. PrettyPanther profile image86
    PrettyPantherposted 2 years ago

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it with religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, religion is an abomination to the Lord..only a personal relationship with Jesus means anything.  Man's religion does not please God.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Most Americans will disagree - over half will attend a church service this year and  over half the remainder have no religious feelings or are atheist, pagan, wiccan or other non-christian belief.  In other words, over 75% will disagree that only a personal relationship with Jesus means anything; it either means nothing at all or is a part of church services.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

      2. 0
        mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Okay...and now religions and churches are abominations. Where does it end?

        Is anyone, Brie, NOT an abomination except you and those who believe exactly what you believe?

    2. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly!

  45. JMcFarland profile image91
    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago

    "I'm going to tell you you're horrible and sinful and that my god is going to burn you for eternity unless you follow him with no proof or logic whatsoever"  It's amazing this thread isn't full of people renouncing their homosexuality and converting on the spot.   It's not convincing,  and said something is true is not proving it is true.

    Ate you afraid of the Islamic hell?   One you understand and explain why you're not afraid of that he'll or believe in that God,  you will understand why I am not afraid of or believe in yours. Yet you're here complaining that you can't make money on a hub encouraging discrimination,  and claiming that you're being discriminated against.   The irony is strong with this one.

    1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
      Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No, because I KNOW God, so I am not afraid of death or punishment.  Jesus took my punishment upon himself and in return He gave me His righteousness with which I will stand before God.  I am hoping that maybe some of you...maybe even upon your death that you will remember these things and it will save you.  I am hoping for your ultimate good.

      1. JMcFarland profile image91
        JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No,  you believe and have faith in the Bible.   You can prove nothing.   Saying it over and over again does not make it true.   Sorry. There is no reason whatsoever for me to believe you,  accept your interpretations of Scripture of conform to your way of thinking.   You're approach is divisive,  and detracts from whatever message you're trying to portray.   You're not going to win anyone over that way,  and believing in something out of fear is not faith.   Try again.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I KNOW IT to be true even if I can't prove it to YOU!  You can know someone while another person does not know them..it's the same thing.

          Besides that, it's not my job to "win" someone over, that's the Holy Spirit's job, it's my job to testify to the truth.  I've done my job and will continue to do it.

          1. JMcFarland profile image91
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Shouting it emphatically does not make it any more true.   Sorry.   If you know something,  it can be demonstrated.   You believe it.   Belief does not mystically turn into knowledge.

            It's not your job to convince people?   Weren't you just saying that you hope to convince homosexuals to repent so they don't burn in hell?   Additionally,  there's this:
            1 Peter 3:15 (AMP)
            15 But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.

            1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
              Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, I have given a logical defense but you have the freedom to choose to believe or not.  God will not force himself on anyone.  You will be held responsible for your choice, however.

              1. JMcFarland profile image91
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No,  I have seen no logical defense.   I have seen you repeat your assertions a lot and post Bible verses confirming your belief to yourself,  but that is not a logical defense.   That is repeated assertions.   You cannot use the Bible to prove that the Bible is true.   It's circular,  and it's a logical fallacy,  not a logical defense.

                You can believe all you want that I will be held accountable according to your beliefs,  but that doesn't make them true either and there is absolutely no reason for me to take your opinion at face value over any other.  You know nothing about me,  but you're free to make up anything you like.

                1. SmartAndFun profile image92
                  SmartAndFunposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  +1

                2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                  Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  The Bible is a compilation of 66 books so using the Bible to prove the Bible is NOT circular reasoning.  In any case, you are not my judge, God is as He is yours as well.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image91
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Another assertion.   It means nothing.   It's the same as me telling you that you're going to be judged and punished by Zeus.  In other words,  no impact whatsoever.

                    I know the Bible.   I would almost guarantee that I know it better than you do,  and I have studied it in college in Hebrew,  Greek and Latin.   I was a theology major and a missionary and now I'm an atheist.   Yes,  it is 66 books,  but it is compiled into a collection and it cannot be used to prove itself true,  any more that you accept that the Koran says it's true therefore it proves itself to be true.   You don't buy that.   It's the same concept.   Circular logic is circular logic.   It's still a logical fallacy,  and fallacious arguments are not a logical defense.   There's no reason for me to believe you,  and you seem incapable of providing one except for repeat assertions,  fallacies and threats.   What else have you got?

                  2. Zelkiiro profile image85
                    Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    So if I cite Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban as a source to prove that hippogriffs are real creatures that actually exist--pointing out their continued appearances in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows--that also wouldn't count as circular reasoning? It is a compilation of seven different books, after all...

                    Or what if I use A Storm of Swords to prove dragons exist and further cite passages from A Feast for Crows to bolster that claim? That's not circular reasoning, either, by your logic.

                    And so on, and so forth.

              2. 0
                mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Brie:

                Nothing you say is logical. It is religious dogma at best and the canned talking points of some pastor at worst.

      2. 0
        mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am not afraid of god's punishment either.

        Know why?

        It is entirely a human psychological construct with absolutely no grounding in or bearing on reality.

  46. FatFreddysCat profile image92
    FatFreddysCatposted 2 years ago

    This thread stopped being funny awhile ago. Now it's just creepy...

    1. peeples profile image88
      peeplesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not sure creepy begins to describe it!

      1. 0
        mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Most definitely!

    2. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed!
      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/9035300_f248.jpg

  47. Brie Hoffman profile image82
    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago

    Afraid to answer..I see.

    1. JMcFarland profile image91
      JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Not the least bit afraid.  You cannot prove god (which requires evidence) with presuppositions.  Presuppositions do not rely on evidence, and try to prove god by claiming that everyone inherently knows that god exists.  They despise evidential apologists for that reason.  You cannot prove something without evidence.  We established that already when we first started.  So where is your evidence?

      Again, claiming someone else is afraid because you're failing to do something you claimed you could do demonstrates weakness on YOUR part, not on mine.  You have no idea what I think or feel, have made no effort to find out, so claiming I'm "afraid" by laughing at presuppositional apologetics that don't rely on proof at ALL is nothing but a distraction from the fact that you can't do what you claimed to be able to do.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I cannot prove to you that God exists because in order to prove that,  you would have to agree that you can know something for certain and in your world view ..you cannot know anything for certain.

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          That's only true in the presuppositionalist worldview, where you claim that the only way you can know anything with certainty is if you presupposes that a god either does or doesn't exist.  I don't do either.  Asking someone to believe in (or presuppose) a god in order to have that god proved to them after the fact is backwards.  In order to believe in something, it has to be proven true to me.  Thank you for at least admitting that you are incapable of doing that, like you initially claimed you were.  Lets save each other some time and skip the crap in the middle, shall we?

               Old-School Apologist: Ears up, sinners! Here's an argument that God exists.
              Recalcitrant Sinner: That argument's a pile of bunk! Here's why.
              Old-School Apologist: Oh. Drat.
              Presuppositional Apologist: Fear not, lions of Christ; here comes the new broom! Ears up, sinners! You say all the old-school arguments for God's existence are bunk?
              Recalcitrant Sinner: Yep!
              Presuppositional Apologist: Well, your refutations don't hold water, because they're grounded in the false presupposition that God doesn't exist.
              Recalcitrant Sinner: Uh, no, they're not.
              Presuppositional Apologist: They're grounded in a false presupposition, I say! Now if you'd just presuppose that God exists, it's obvious that God exists!
              Recalcitrant Sinner: And you say we use circular logic...

          [edit] Extension: transcendental argument for the existence of God

              Presuppositional Apologist: Did you mention logic? Here is something new for you: every time you mention Laws of Logic, morality and science you already presuppose God's existence, because knowledge, logic, morality and science cannot exist without presupposing God.
              Recalcitrant Sinner: That argument's also a pile of bunk! Defining the reference frame for Logic/morality/knowledge/science, even if it presupposes god, does not necessarily imply its existence[2].
              Presuppositional Apologist: See, you just gave me more proof that God exists because you are using God-created logic, God-created science and God-created morality!
              Recalcitrant Sinner: But if that's true, the exact opposite of what you argue can be constructed using the exact same arguments, which means your argument's a pile of bunk, like I said!
              Presuppositional Apologist: Blasphemer! If God said 2+2=5, then we've got five eyes between us!
              Recalcitrant Sinner: Hello, fellows in white coats? We need you over here pronto.

          1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
            Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You, according to your world view cannot know anything for certain, therefore "proof" is absurd.  According to your world view we are nothing more than chemical soup that have no reason or morality, because reason and morality come from God.  Animals do not need proof nor can anything be proven to them.  Until you acknowledge God, there is no proof that you can understand.

            1. JMcFarland profile image91
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              okay
              1. You're in no position to know or speak to my worldview.
              2. I could say the same thing back to you.  Until you acknowledge Zeus, you can know nothing for certain, which means all of your presuppositions about god are false.
              3. Can you think of anything other than your version of god that you believed in FIRST before any proof that it was true?
              4. Prove that reason and morality come from god.  Saying it is true does not make it true.
              5. Which god?
              6. Prove THAT god is the god that exists

              Do you have anything else other than circular logic, blatant assertions, absurdities and assumptions?  No?  Pity.  Again.

              For the sake of argument, fine.  I will presuppose that Zeus exists.  Now show me the proof.

              1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                1.  Am I wrong?
                2.  No, you couldn't because Zeus did not give us morality and a world view as written in the scriptures.
                3. No
                4. Without God there is no morality because God sets the rules and without Him there is no definition of good and evil.  What is good is what conforms to God who is perfect and what is evil is what does not conform to God.
                5. There is only 1 God, all others are idols otherwise known as fake gods.
                6.  You are proof that God exists, just as a building proves that there is a builder, you are proof that there is a Creator.

                1. JMcFarland profile image91
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  1. Yep.  I'm not surprised.  You didn't even know what an atheist was.  you assumed.  Incorrectly.  And indirectly called me a fool in the process.
                  2. Prove it.
                  3. Then why would you believe in a god without proof before belief?  It's special pleading - another logical fallacy, by the way.
                  4. Prove this too.
                  5. Prove it.
                  6. Prove it.  We don't know of any buildings that appeared.  We know buildings are man-made.  Saying that the world is a creation implies a creator, but you can't make that implication without proving it to be true.  You're attempting (poorly) the watchmaker argument, and you're failing miserably.  http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php? … watchmaker

                  You don't seem to understand what proof is.  Blanket assumptions about things and asserting things are true do not make them true.  You need evidence to prove something true.  You don't appear to have any of any kind for anything.  You just want to say a bunch of things, have people believe you for no reason (kind of like your god) and feel better about yourself  because of it.  What a shame.

                  1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Like I said in the beginning "A fool has said in his heart there is no God"  And the Bible says to answer not a fool according to his folly.  I should have kept to that because you are not sincere..all you want to do is argue. 

                    You will stand in judgement and be judged according to what you have been given.

                    Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
                    Rom 1:19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
                    Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
                    Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
                    Rom 1:22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

                2. Maffew James profile image97
                  Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  "Without God there is no morality because God sets the rules and without Him there is no definition of good and evil.  What is good is what conforms to God who is perfect and what is evil is what does not conform to God."

                  Childish. A child looks to their parents for morality because they lack the cognitive ability or experience to know right and wrong by themselves at that stage. The parent's assertion of right and wrong isn't necessarily correct, and they may have a very poor moral compass, but the child does not understand this and believes they know best. Within time, as the child grows up and can begin to question the world around him, he is able to form his own morality. He learns the basis of morality from a number of different influences including his place in the world, his relationship to other human beings and the effect of his actions on them, and his parent's original morality that he built this off. Thus he becomes an adult and can not only think for himself, but treat the world and other people with respect on an individual basis.

                  When Christians look to God for morality all their life, they act like children who never grow up, constantly asking their parents what the right choice is. Because the parent in this case is a fictional epic from centuries ago when morality was less evolved and revolved around power and subjugation of the weak, a Christian can never understand good and evil as long as they rely on that book and the character of god.

        2. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Wow...this is really funny Brie!

          You have a prepared answer for everything!

      2. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
        Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I suppose eyewitness testimony of both God and His Son, Jesus Christ are not enough to convince you...too bad...because there are HUNDREDS of them.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So the story goes.

        2. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          hundreds of eyewitness accounts?  Really?  Where?

        3. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Eye witnesses???

          Don't you mean characters written into the narrative who, as a literary device, function as "eye witnesses"?

  48. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
    Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago

    I will take you up on this one:

    4. Prove that reason and morality come from god.  Saying it is true does not make it true.




    Exodus 20

    King James Version (KJV)

    20 And God spake all these words, saying,

    2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

    10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

    11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

    13 Thou shalt not kill.

    14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

    15 Thou shalt not steal.

    16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

    17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

    18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

    19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

    20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

    21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

    22 And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

    23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.

    24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

    25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

    26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.




    Dated between 1440 and 1400 B.C. (Which by the way means before Christ...your calendar is based on God's existence), Exodus 20 clearly outlines the laws guiding the Jews. These laws are the basis for our own legal system in America. You must have absolutes for right and wrong. For instance, it is ABSOLUTELY wrong to murder someone in cold blood. But, I ask you, why is it wrong? Who says? It must be a higher power than mankind, because if it's mankind's call, then we have no need of a justice system. We can all live any way we want to, without regard for others, because after all, WE determine what is right and what is wrong.

    Show me an older PROVEN document with these codes of morality in it. You can not, because no such document exists. So, there is your proof...eyewitness accounts of God delivering the laws that have governed the morality of the world for nearly 3,000 years.

    1. JMcFarland profile image91
      JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The code of Hammurabi dates back to 1772 BC (which is older) and contains many of the same codes you speak of, first of all.  By the way, the "calendar" that we have today was created by a Monk who (unsurprisingly) accepted God's existence, and was not exactly unbiased which is why many historical scholars are using CE now as Common Era rather than BC and AD.  This point is moot.

      Secondly, you cannot quote the Bible to prove that something in the Bible is true, that is circular logic and it's a fallacy.

      Thirdly, no, the United States was not founded on Christian morality, it is a secular nation, and many of the founding fathers you're so fond of abhorred Christianity and were deists.

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +1,000,000,000,000,000,000 in agreement with you JM .  There is no point in presenting provable evidence to the argument, such is an exercise in utter futility.

        http://s2.hubimg.com/u/9036391_f248.jpg

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          but it's still fun.  as soon as it stops being entertaining, I'll stop :-)

        2. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Most definitely!

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Code of Ur-Nammu
      It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BC.
      1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
      2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
      3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.

    3. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Oh please!

      Does being a "Christian" require abandoning not only reason, logic, and critical thinking, but also the capacity to read and remember historical facts?

      Everyone knows that LONG BEFORE your Bible was laws related to conduct had been codified.

      1. cfin profile image77
        cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Brehon Law, destroyed by Christianity even though it was much more advanced at the time. Brehon law had judges whereas common law and Canon Law were slaughtering people for stealing an apple under the writ system. Having studied the philosophy and history of law, Brie will still contradict me.

        1. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          wink

          And so, then, I should probably not bother to mention to Brie or her allies, the fact that US law is not rooted in Biblical law, but in British common law and multiple sources of The Enlightenment.

          1. cfin profile image77
            cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            In fairness, common law was influenced heavily by canon law, but Canon law is Catholic law and....well Brie doesn't believe that Catholic Christians are Christians. This really leaves us in a pickle.

            Brie shares many views with people from the most uneducated systems on earth and I feel, in my opinion, that it is fair to presume that she is extremely uneducated on all of the topics we have discussed here. She seems to live in a time where all Christians were Catholics, but no Catholics are Christians.

            Lets ask her how she feels about albinos.

            1. 0
              mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I hear you...wink

              I wonder sometimes how people allow themselves to be led to reject everything that is logical, and reasoned, and factual; to reject science.

              I wonder what happens to a mind that allows it to reject reality (particularly of experience) and humanity and come to believe that the only things that are real or veritable are a fictional narrative and its fictional chain of events and cast of characters.

              1. cfin profile image77
                cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                One word: Ignorance.

                Yet ignorance is ok. The problem here is that some people try to FORCE their ignorance on others like it's the ONLY way to be and you have no choice. Fascist attitude.

                Also, it's not even a desirable cast of characters.

                1. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly.

                  1. cfin profile image77
                    cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I now believe though. I truly believe......In sociopaths and brain washing.

  49. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
    Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago

    Using the very code of justice used to determine innocence and guilt in the U.S., I challenge any one of you to prove to me the Bible is false. Here, you are considered innocent until enough proof has been shown to prove guilt.

    The BIBLE IS TRUE and I proclaim its innocence from all the claims that is a book of lies. Prove I am wrong... Im serious...give me enough evidence to convince  a jury to have the book destroyed.

    1. Zelkiiro profile image85
      Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, okay.

      Ezekiel 28: The destruction of Tyre in Lebanon, stating that the king and his nation shall be destroyed and never be found or even exist afterwards.

      vs.

      The fact that you can type the city into Google and find it instantly, complete with large swaths of the ancient city unearthed and happily existent.

      1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
        Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This is a prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled yet, ergo "shall be"..future-tense, there are many such prophecies in the Bible.

        Keep trying

        1. Zelkiiro profile image85
          Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Except, you know, for the whole "all prophecies except Revelation have been fulfilled" thing Christians are always going on about. But hey, if you want more damning evidence...

          http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies
          http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions
          http://freethought.mbdojo.com/familycensus.html

          1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
            Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This proves nothing.  The prophecies that haven't happened will happen.

            1. Zelkiiro profile image85
              Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You're so hilariously wrong that it's almost sad, but I'll bite. Have some more:

              http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Problems_w … _inerrancy
              http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_a … t_creation

              1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Science has not proven that the earth is older than 6,000 years..all of these things on this page are easily refuted and proves nothing at all.

                1. gmwilliams profile image85
                  gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, science has proven that the earth is more than 6,000 years old.  In fact, the earth is BILLIONS of years old.  I was taugjt this in elementary school!  There is such a thing as evolution and the progression of the earth.

                  The Bible saying that the world was made in seven days was a figurative explanation of evolution and the stages of earth progression.  Zeke, I am DONE with this thread, you're on your own. Unbelievable!  Totally ........I'm AGHAST!  Did not know that such thinking STILL exists in the 21st century!   Really, Freddy is correct, the progression of this thread is mindboggling to say the least!
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/9035307_f248.jpg

                  1. 0
                    mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I love the picture---it's perfect!

                  2. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
                    Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    LOL I love how you claim Science has PROVEN....science has 3 different THEORIES of evolution...each completely contradicts the other two theories....no solid proof has been offered....Carbon dating has been proven to be a flawed age detection method...

                    I have studied evolution, and I have studied other religions besides Christianity. I am sorry, but it is easier for me to believe that God designed and created the Universe, than it is to believe that a tiny speck of matter exploded and everything in our universe came to be. That would be like taking a spitwad with letters of the alphabet written on it, taping it to a firecracker and lighting the fuse.....when the firecracker goes off, the spitwad explodes into a Webster's dictionary.... hehe just don't make any sense at all. Incidentally, when an explosion occurs, the matter immediately surrounding the blast site is thrown outward in a spinning motion..which could be a way to prove the Big Bang Theory, as our solar system is evidence of that circular motion. The problem is that all of the matter around the blast is spun in the same direction..........why then are three of our planets spinning in the opposite direction? I am sorry ladies and gentlemen but there is no "proof" of evolution...try breeding a dog and a cat...see if you get baby "dats" or "cags".............nah no way to prove animals evolve beyond their species.... advancement within a species can not prove evolution either, as you would have me believe my ancestors were monkeys and starfish... Anyway, Im off the soapbox. I have more important matters to attend to at the moment. Ya'll have fun arguing smile

                    Brie, I am going to give you one piece of advice: Never argue with a fool.. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience. smile

                2. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh dear, you say that while science allows you to type something on a keyboard that others can instantly read.

                3. cfin profile image77
                  cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So Newgrange Brie, it was build last week?

                  1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                    Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    She's a big proponent of Last Thursdayism, apparently.

              2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Prove to me that earth is old.

                1. Zelkiiro profile image85
                  Zelkiiroposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  We can see objects further than 6000 light years away. We can even see things from over 10 billion light years away. And I don't have to tell you how light years work, now, do I?

                  Bonus: Plate tectonics + fossil records = ta-daaaaa!

                  Aaaaand...done. That was easy.

                  1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    God, who can do anything, can create something that seems old but is new.

                  2. Brie Hoffman profile image82
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c005.html

                    This is a very interesting article and would explain why stars are so far away.

                2. 0
                  mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Brie:

                  Enroll in Geology 101. Just because you are unaware or unable to accept facts do not mean they do not exist.

                  No one possessing even the rudiments of reason and the fundamentals of critical thought believes that your Bible is in any way accurate in terms of its dating of the age of the earth.

                  No one. End of story.

                3. cfin profile image77
                  cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  WOAW, WOAW WOAW, HANG ON! Brie, you don't think it's ok for us to ask for proof of anything you say, but you want us to prove that the Earth is old. Science is PROOF defined by logic. Now, your turn!

        2. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So you're saying this prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet?  That king Nebuchadnezzar is going to rise from the dead and complete the destruction that he attempted for 13 years but failed to complete?  Interesting.  Where does the Bible say that King Nebuchadnezzar is going to be raised from the dead?

          Ezekiel 26.  "Son of man, because Tyre said concerning Jerusalem, 'Aha the gate of the peoples is broken, it has swung open to me; I shall be replenished now that she is laid waste', therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you O Tyre, and will bring up many nations against you as the sea brings up its waves.  They shall destroy the walls of Tyre, and break down her towers; and I will scrape her soil from her and make her a bare rock.  She shall be in the midst of the sea a place for the spreading of nets; for I have spoken, says the Lord God; and she shall become a spoil to the nations; and her daughters on the mainland shall be slain by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.  For thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and with horsemen and a host of many soldiers. He will slay with the sword your daughters on the mainland; he will set up a siege wall against you, and throw up a mound against you, and raise a roof of shields against you.  He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers.  His horses will be so many that their dust will cover you; your walls will shake at the noise of the horsemen and wagons and chariots, when he enters your gates as one enters a city that has been breached.  With the hoofs of his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword; and your mighty pillars will fall to the ground.  They will make a spoil of your riches and a prey of your merchandise; they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses; your stones ad your timber and soil they will cast into the midst of the waters.  And I will stop the music of your songs, and the sound of your lyres shall be heard no more.  I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for the spreading of nets; you shall never be rebuilt; for I the Lord have spoken, says the Lord God." Revised Standard Version.

        3. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Wow...as I mentioned earlier, you pastor has done a great job with his talking points!!!

          1. cfin profile image77
            cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            But Earth is 4 weeks old, gays are fake, the sky is hair and we all live inside the eye of a giant names Jim....because I said so. *coughs* Cult *coughs*

    2. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Is slavery moral? How about killing disobedient children? Should a raped person be forced to marry the rapist?

      You should have simple yes or no answers to these questions. And your answers should give you an understanding of who wrote the bible.

      1. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
        Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Slavery is wrong. Killing a child is wrong.. rapists should be killed.... theres your simple answers

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          They don't want answers, they don't want to know the truth..it's as Jesus said pearls before swine.

          1. JMcFarland profile image91
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            so anyone who disagrees with you is a fool and swine now?  That's funny, actually, coming from someone who is simply incapable of proving her case and behaves completely hypocritically to the faith she claims to embrace.

          2. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Pearls before swine?

        2. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks, now if those things are wrong why does the bible tell you that they are right? Would a perfect God tell you they are right or would flawed people tell you they are right?

    3. JMcFarland profile image91
      JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You're shifting the burden of proof.

      You're making the positive claim that the Bible is true, the burden of proof is on YOU.  Prove that it's true.

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        JM, the Bible is myth and fable which is borrowed from other and older cultures.  The Bible is not the word of God but was composed by men who interpreted events from their limited perspective.  The Bible furthermore has been altered greatly throughout history.

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I know - but he's claiming with absolute certainty that it's true, so he has to prove that it is.  He can't.  I predict that he'll waffle a bit, continue to quote the bible to try to prove the bible and eventually say something like "don't cast your pearls before swine", call me a fool, and take off.  Watch, maybe I'm a prophet.  *smirks*  It's what happens when fundamentalists are beaten with intellect and superior knowledge.

          1. 0
            mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I suspect that we are dealing here with people who are probably either (a) completely uneducated---totally illiterate, as to basic scientific and historical  knowledge, and therefore, susceptible to extreme indoctrination of very skilled con-men they perceive as pastors OR (b) are completely incapable of being educated about such basic knowledge OR (c) have decided---for reasons that I cannot possibly understand, to reject what they once knew and understood and to embrace an utterly fictional and nonsensical worldview disassociated with the Scientific Revolution/Enlightenment now centuries old.

            I suspect that doing the latter is a really good mechanism for justifying one's deeply internalized homophobia or racism or sexism.

        2. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you "gmwilliams".

          On this we are in total agreement.

        3. cfin profile image77
          cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          gmwilliams, hypocrites only want proof of things that they disagree with, similar to mentally ill individuals who require help. Unfortunately, we cannot help here. Science as proof that the earth is older than 6,000 years is not enough for them. Dinosaurs must have decomposed at an alarming rate also? Gay people choose to be gay? I could go on and on. I am fairly sure the crazy man who shot up a temple in Milwaukee had these kinds of beliefs too.

      2. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
        Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Youre completely wrong as to whom the responsibility of proof falls to. You are accusing the Bible of being false...a book that has proven to be historically accurate. Therefore, as you claim it is false, although millions of people over thousands of years have claimed it is true....the burden of proof falls to you...

        1. JMcFarland profile image91
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Where did I claim the bible is false?  If you're claiming it's true, you have the burden of proof.  This is debate 101.  Do you not know anything about debate or defending your own beliefs?  Seems not.

        2. Maffew James profile image97
          Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You're using two logical fallacies to falsely justify the bible. First, you make an ad populum argument claiming that because millions of people have claimed the bible is true, it is true.

          If millions of people claimed the sun was made out of cheese, by your false logic, it must indeed by true because so many people are claiming it is. It isn't made of cheese though, and we have actual proof to the extent that it is not. Just because you claim that millions of people believe something, doesn't make it true. Millions of people believed Earth was flat and the sun revolved around Earth. They were incorrect, because neither is true.

          Secondly, you use argumentum ad antiquitatem to falsely justify your point. Just because something has been done or believed for many years and is considered tradition, does not mean it is logical or fact. If the millions of people from the former example, believed that the sun was made of cheese and claimed that for 5 centuries, it would be no truer after 500 years than it was the day they first claimed it.

        3. 0
          mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Since when has the Bible been "proven" to be historically accurate?

          By whom? When?

    4. 0
      mbuggiehposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Well...

      The New Testament claims that your Jesus told his followers that he represented and the "new and everlasting covenant with the Lord."

      Doesn't that negate the old covenant---that of the Old Testament (the Bible---or at least parts of it)?

    5. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I can prove it Joshua. You two were in agreement that Catholics were not Christians.
      Catholics wrote the bible. So, within your own logic, the book is not a christian text. Done!
      But let me guess, like a child you will change the rules now and say something ridiculous and continue to contradict yourself.

      1. Joshua-C-Rarrick profile image60
        Joshua-C-Rarrickposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Catholics di not write the Bible wink Was Moses a Catholic? Was Samuel? Or David? Im not contradicting myself, and I most definitely am not showing my ignorance here...study a little more, then come talk to me.

        1. Brie Hoffman profile image82
          Brie Hoffmanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Joshua, they are willfully ignorant, there is no use trying to reason with them.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Swine, willfully ignorant, fools… got anymore?

          2. Maffew James profile image97
            Maffew Jamesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            "Trying to 'reason' with them"?

            'Reason', as a verb, is defined as: "thinking or arguing in a logical manner". Given your penchant for logical fallacies, ie, a complete lack of logic, I doubt you have the capacity to reason with anyone.

  50. etechexplorer profile image61
    etechexplorerposted 2 years ago

    Yes. because content was not as per Policy

 
working