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The end of Britains participation in the EU experiment?

  1. Silverspeeder profile image60
    Silverspeederposted 3 years ago

    It seem that the EU is adamant that it will appoint Jean-Claude Juncker as president. He is a federalist who is likely not to encourage any reform but to demand closer ties and centralisation of power.
    David Cameron is dependant on his pledge to give a referendum on Europe and his hope that he could negotiate changes that would see some of the powers come back to the government. Now it seems those are unlikely to take place although the conservatives are still likely to take a majority win in the election in 2015 with a referendum in 2017.
    Many voters in this country will start eyeing an exit.

    So here is the conundrum that Cameron is in
    Because of his refusal to accept, or his insistence that Junkers should not be president he has become isolated amongst the leaders in the EU, it is unlikely that he will be able to negotiate anything of substance so how will he play it with the British electorate.
    Will he withdraw his promise of a referendum
    A. Before the election
    B. After the election
    Or will he proclaim that it wasn't his fault and it would be silly to have a referendum at this time.

    1. John Holden profile image59
      John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Why should the Conservatives take a majority in 2015?
      They didn't in 2010 and their popularity has diminished considerably in the five years.

      1. Silverspeeder profile image60
        Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Well not that I am looking forward to it John but the Labour party is in disarray with its leader, the Liberals are in the same mess and UKIP will take votes from all of them. I have read a few political forecasts and they have said we are heading for another coalition or a slight majority in favour of the Conservatives, this maybe down to the fact that it is perceived Cameron is standing up to the EU. (?)

        I know there are many variants that could affect the next elections with the biggest being a yes vote on Scottish independence, if Labour did win in that scenario they would have to hold another election when Scotland di become independent because of the 49 MP's with Scottish seats. That would undoubtedly put the Labour party at a disadvantage and ensure a Conservative government for years to come.
        The other things that may affect the election is they may decide they need a new leader or continue to be against a referendum on Europe.

        1. John Holden profile image59
          John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          The point I was making that the Conservatives did not have a majority in 2010 and are even less likely to in 2015.
          The libdems are a spent force and will be in no position to prop up the Conservatives so who will be conned into propping them up?

          BTW, the labour party is not against a referendum, they just admit that it is unlikely to happen.

          1. Silverspeeder profile image60
            Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If the Labour party is not against a referendum why would they say it is unlikely to happen? Is it because they wont provide one because they are against it! Or is it because they wont provide one because they know the outcome?

            As for your point about 2010 of course you are right, but as Labour cant capitalise on that fact and will be unable to gain a majority themselves I doubt if the government will change in 2015.

            I bet labour are praying for a NO vote in the Scottish independence referendum.

            1. John Holden profile image59
              John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Well we're really up against a brick wall here. Whoever gains a majority by combining with whatever other party will produce exactly the same outcome, anther five years of neo liberal policies and another five years of preferential treatment for the haves and five more years of abuse for the rest.

              I think it will be quite interesting, as "may you live in interesting times". I'm not looking forward to it.

              1. Silverspeeder profile image60
                Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I think you are right John, whether Labour or the Conservatives take control again it will be pretty much the same old same old.
                As I said I was just wondering how the Europhile Cameron will get out of offering the said referendum he promised....

                1. John Holden profile image59
                  John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Hopefully he's banking on it not being his problem smile
                  None of them have a problem with saying what they think people want to hear and then totally ignoring it, (and that goes for Farage as well).

                  There is a lot to be said for voting Green if you want out of the EU

                  http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk … party.html

                  1. Silverspeeder profile image60
                    Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You see John what I take from reading the link is that the greens are running a little scared as well.
                    People are fed up with what left wing politics have done to this country, that is why they are considering voting for something completely different.

                    I have to concede UKIP have little chance of winning outright control of parliament and as such would not be able to bring about the Brexit just yet, but in the same instance the green party has little chance of it either.

                    As for the renationalisation issue I don't think it would be any better than it is now. Who will pay for that renationalisation? And when the workers of those industries once again return to their culture of strikes who will be the ones who will pay?
                    I personally wouldn't want the renationalisation of any industry, however I would like to see a government who's regulatory bodies seem to have some teeth, Ofgem are like an old women with no teeth trying to bite open a walnut.

  2. John Holden profile image59
    John Holdenposted 3 years ago

    BTW, you seem to think that a referendum would see us out of the EU. 
    What would you feel if the referendum kept us in, which actually seems very likely?

    1. Silverspeeder profile image60
      Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Of course a referendum is not an automatic withdrawal from the EU and that's why I support UKIP because they are not looking for a referendum.
      Its not as clear cut as you make it sound either.

      1. John Holden profile image59
        John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I don't suggest that it's clear cut, on the contrary it is entirely open either way.

        So you're a U Kipper because they would deny us the right to decide fairly whether we stay or go!! I wonder what else they would do without approval?

        1. Silverspeeder profile image60
          Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          No John they wouldn't deny anyone anything, like any political party they have a policy or policies and if they suit your political slant then you vote for them, that's sort of having your say.

          Its simple, if you don't want to mess about with a referendum but you want out of Europe then vote UKIP. If you want the promise of a referendum then vote Conservatives or Greens, if you want more of the same, the loss of more powers to Brussels and higher taxes vote labour.

          1. John Holden profile image59
            John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Sort of having your say! Right.

            Your comment about labour and higher taxes is what scares me about those as politically uninformed as your self deciding on the future of the country. The only taxes the Tories have reduced are those for the super rich, everybody else (including the unemployed) are paying more in taxes. And frankly if we are going to have the sort of thinking typical of the average U Kipper ruling the country I think we would be much better off with Brussels.

            1. Silverspeeder profile image60
              Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Its obvious that you have forgotten all the tax increases under the Labour government which held up their false economy that then came tumbling down through the bad credit crunch...All presided over by a labour government. I also believe it was Gormless Brown (labour) who signed the Lisbon treaty which effectively signed away Britain's control of its borders. I also believe it was Labour who gave the hard won rebate back to the EU fraudsters.......... And still Toy Blair hasn't got his promised job in the EU...

          2. John Holden profile image59
            John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            "Its simple, if you don't want to mess about with a referendum"

            The more I read this the more outraged I become.
            What you are saying is "if you don't want to mess around with democracy. . .".

            1. Silverspeeder profile image60
              Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              No9 what I am saying is if you don't want to vote for politicians that mess about with democracy.

              Voting for UKIP is after all a referendum to get out of Europe. (maybe Nigel should use that as his campaign message)

              Lets face it no other party would offer a referendum anyway!

              1. John Holden profile image59
                John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                So how is saying if you don't want to bother with politicians that mess around with democracy any better than saying if you don't want to mess around with a referendum?

                If UKIP were a one policy party I would agree that a vote for them is a vote to leave the EU. Unfortunately that is not their only policy.

                1. Silverspeeder profile image60
                  Silverspeederposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Ok maybe I didn't make it clear. If you don't want to mess around waiting for a referendum that will never materialise because of undemocratic politicians then go straight to a party that wants out of the EU. You have a choice.
                  We don't need a referendum, we have a democratic choice, vote for parties that want to stay in the EU or vote for one that wants out.

                  It is their main underlying policy, its a major one, other policies may have to change if there was a vote to leave the EU.

                  1. John Holden profile image59
                    John Holdenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    As I said "if that was their only policy".

  3. John Holden profile image59
    John Holdenposted 2 years ago

    Well Siverspeeder, given up trying to deny the truth have you? Well done.

 
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