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Isis trying to wipe out Christianity in Mosul.

  1. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    An NPR report said that Isis gave Iraqui Christians a matter of days to make a choice.
    1) Convert to Muslim or
    2) Leave the city or
    3) Be killed

    The Christians left the city of Mosul, having most of what they owned taken from them first. They fled to the homes of other Christians who were kind enough to take them in, or to empty shelters, but the cities they fled to receive water and power from the city of Mosul b/c of the dam. The ppl of these cities already have little to nothing, and what little they do have may be stripped from them by the Isis group.

    If you are a person of faith, pls pray for these families. Few of us can imagine what they are suffering now. Their lives and children's lives are at risk. Pray that they can keep their faith and that they will be given help in their time of need.

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/2 … lee-mosul/

    1. Faith Reaper profile image86
      Faith Reaperposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, we must pray!

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you. One Christian man in Mosul was reported as saying, "It is the end of Christianity." I'm sure that's how he feels. It has been tried for thousands of years, but no one will ever succeed. God's will cannot be thwarted.

        1. Disappearinghead profile image90
          Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          All people,  whether Christian,  Muslim or atheist are suffering under the jack boot of ISIS, why do you choose to only pray for Christians?

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I am trying not to be offended by this line of questioning. lol

            I brought up the group of Isis a few weeks or months ago when I heard their story on NPR... I did not mention their focus on Christians, only their imposing threat as a group. No one was interested in talking about it. My comment fell thru the cracks.

            Let me send the question back to you. Why does it bother you if a current story of abuse is brought to the forefront, no matter who the focus?

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Okay, so these people were asked to convert or leave, some may have converted and some may have left. It was their choice. Are these girls given a choice to have their genitals mutilated? You asked only for the Christians to be prayed for, why is that?

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                First of all, I had not heard the mutilation story... I still don't know it other than the blurbs you keep throwing out. Maybe if you had started a thread about it, requesting prayer for these women... I could be praying for them now.

                And there were asked to convert, leave, or BE KILLED.
                You could at least pretend this is a travesty.

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                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Her statement in no way implied she didn't think people should pray for other groups. She was simply bringing one tragedy to our attention.

                You do realize if one named every group who could be prayed for we would chastise them for a lengthy opening of a thread?

            2. Disappearinghead profile image90
              Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It doesn't bother me that you bring this story to the forefold. However at least these Christians have a choice. Shiite Muslims are simply being executed.

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I understand and my heart goes out to them too. It is atrocious.
                Please understand, I do not wish well for some victims and not for others.

                If your country went to war, would it not affect you on a more intimate level than the unrest in Thailand now?

                When we hear these stories, those of us who pray, pray. It is our privilege to pray for those in need. But when someone in our own family is being threatened, we may feel a sense of urgency b/c we can identify with it, as you would if your actual neighbors went to war as opposed to ppl you didn't know.

                That doesn't mean you don't care about the ppl of Thailand, or that you wouldn't help in whatever way you could, you would simply identify with a domestic event more readily and have a more immediate sense of urgency.

                To us, the connection is faith. They are our family. And we as Christians, have heard that these days would be coming, all our lives.

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      Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thank goodness you posted that link. At first, I thought an ancient Egyptian goddess had instructed fundamentalist muslims to force conversion or death on Christians.

      Reading the link, it sounds like 'men of God, Allah' or whatever name they've tacked onto their lust for power and money had the usual ulterior motive, since they quickly made sure the possessions of those people were tagged 'property of ISIS'.

      I would think it would be best to pray for all in the Middle East, not just the Christians. Different groups have been victimized by petty tyrants consistently throughout the region.

      1. gmwilliams profile image84
        gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This world has indeed gone QUITE MAD. Each person is entitled to his/her own religious path as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.  It is horrendous what ISIS is doing to these poor people.

      2. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        For sure... all of the Middle East will be affected by this radical Islam group. But not just the Middle East, if the repts Ive heard are to be trusted. I have heard that they are expected to be in competition with the Taliban/al Qaeda over who can do more/greater destruction... which of course will affect us all.

        But I very much liked your sentiment, b/c what affects any of mankind, should affect us all.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          What about the radical Christians that are somehow affecting laws that hurt people in parts of Africa?

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This reminds me of the whole baby dying/baby in hell debacle. So if someone somewhere in the world does something wrong, what has that to do with *this* specific story Ive brought to your attention? If you don't care about these ppl fine. Some of us do. Try to stay on topic, as you are always saying.

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I am on topic, trying to understand why you chose these particular people to pray for as one would think that your God would care for them rather than praying for the others that you don't think will make it into heaven?

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                They are human beings who are currently suffering. They are ppl of my faith, they are in need of prayer.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Lots of people are currently suffering including those women who moved to radical Muslim occupied area who are facing female genitalia mutilation and then later hell from a Christian view point. Why the need to pray for the Christians who the lord will provide for and are facing heaven?

              2. bBerean profile image60
                bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Followed to its natural conclusion, which is probably your underlying point, by your logic nobody should pray for anyone ever because in so doing they are leaving someone else out and the number of things worthy of praying for are innumerable.  People will pray for things as they are laid upon their heart to do so, and don't require a moderator.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree, people will pray for those they see fit. However I think some deeper thought may be in order. Don't you think that if God is real he may wonder why people are not praying for those who are in line for hell rather than those destined for heaven?

                  1. bBerean profile image60
                    bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Or perhaps He will wonder why those who don't even believe in Him seek to audit the prayer practices of those who do.  wink

                  2. Sed-me profile image84
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Why did you come to the conclusion that we are not praying for all sorts? My prayers have been focused on Katie Davis as of late, the 23 year old American girl who has adopted 14 Ugandan girls and is changing villages, for the better, left and right. She and her girls spend their days bandaging wounds, feeding the destitute and delivering meds to the sick and dying. She miraculously made a way for a village of untouchables to be fed and educated and is now opening a large middle school for children. She gave up everything... friends, family, a young man, comfort, the American life style and is serving the very least of these. She is where my main prayers are now.

                    However, I have more time to pray, so my prayers are for the missionaries both foreign and domestic who are suffering for the sake of the gospel, b/c of their love for the Lord and the lost. But I have more time, so I pray for my family, for myself, for you, your nephew, for JM, for ATM/Ed, for bBerean and his family, for Chris and his family, for their hearts as they deal with their grief, for the ladies on these threads, for my co-workers, for my battle against the things I would be addicted to, for my marriage, to be able to pay the bills, for my mom...

                    There is no END to the list I can pray for. And I can do it deliberately, as well as constantly, while I'm going about my daily life.

                    When I heard this story on NPR, I knew I needed to share it here and I am sure there are believers here who would consider it an honor to pray for these who are currently suffering.

          2. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What about them? You're saying that the Christians in one country (Uganda) are literally the equivalent of a group dedicated to bringing all of the Middle East under a caliphate?

            For the record, I don't agree that being gay should bring on the death penalty, but the speed with which some people have tried to turn this betrays more bias than thought.

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I'd have to agree with you, however what I find difficult to swallow is her apparent lack of compassion for anyone other than Christians. Clearly most Christians were allowed to leave with their life and faith in tack. Many others were not as lucky.

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                SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Would you like to have Sed-me pray for you?  I am sure she would do so.

                1. Sed-me profile image84
                  Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I am happy to, and do.



                  Isis has continued the killing with the Muslims. They recently took about 50 Muslim youth down to a river and shot them all. This is frightening, they are purely evil. Please keep praying that God will put an end to their reign of terror and bring comfort to their victims.

                  Edit, they have cut off the water supply to those Christians they exiled from Mosul.
                  http://www.veooz.com/news/AHLhGsl.html

      3. bethperry profile image88
        bethperryposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I agree, Emily. This bunch of haters wants to destroy every human that doesn't bow down to their Precious, and yes I mean that in the most Tolkienesque sense of the word. I also wouldn't cry if the day arrives that the real Isis says enough is enough and just decides to just smote every mutilating, murderous religious fanatic off the face of the earth. You can only push a Lady so far.

    3. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      All HUMANS should be concerned with OTHER HUMANS, regardless of faith/religion/principle.

    4. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Horrific. But may I ask why you only asked other to pray for the Christians?

      Example.
      "The radical Al-Qaeda splinter group controlling a third of Iraq has ordered all girls and women in and around the northern city of Mosul to undergo female genital mutilation, the United Nations warned Thursday."

      So, it seems to me that the way you see it there should be no reason to have to pray for the Christians as you know they will get into heaven for holding onto there faith, however all these Muslims killing and mutilating each other will need some help to make the correct decisions. Right?

      However Prayer is not what is needed here as it's been proven to do nothing except make the person praying feel like they are helping. The really sad thing is a week or so back I read an article that talked about the multitudes of North American Muslim women who moved there as they wanted to live in a Muslim state. I wonder what went on in there heads when they heard that they are to undergo female genital mutilation?

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Kinda sad that anyone would turn this into a debate. I had heard these ppl's story so I asked for ppl of faith to pray for these ppl of faith. But if you and Wilderness want to be petty, have at it. I'm sure there are others here who can see past an opportunity to turn tragedy into yet another forum argument... 'cause we just don't have enough of that.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Simply trying to get you think a little deeper.

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Lucky for me, you were here.

        2. bethperry profile image88
          bethperryposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I understand where they are coming from -and I actually agree- but I also realize that the persecution of the Christians is turning into a genocide. And so I understand why anyone might phrase their question in the way you have. So, no hard feelings here. I'd just like to see an end to all the brutality fanatics dole out to others.

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The subject of this thread is of extreme importance and keeping it focused on Isis, Iraq, the Kurds, Mosul and the religious minorities Isis is trying to wipe off the face of the earth. We have plenty of threads to debate. It would be nice if we could unite against the enemy on this one and speak out for any and all minorities that Isis is currently abusing. I will pray, a non believer can take another tack, but being united seems the best choice here.

            1. Cat333 profile image82
              Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Amen! Where two or more gather... well, we're gathering in a way!

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I'm glad you came around Beth. You seemed at first only interested in the Christians.

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                A Christian interested in the fate of other Christians?

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I have no idea what that means?

    5. blessedp profile image62
      blessedpposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I read about it yesterday and I could only imagine what our brothers and sisters are facing.  But these are the testing times.  My prayers are with them.

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        The testing times indeed. I keep wondering how soon the temple will be rebuilt.

        1. Disappearinghead profile image90
          Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          It won't be rebuilt. Not unless Israel decides to bulldoze the Golden Dome Mosque. However considering how they bulldoze the homes of Palestinians in the West Bank with impunity to build their illegal settlements, I wouldn't put it past them.

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            It will be rebuilt. There is no doubt. None.

            1. Disappearinghead profile image90
              Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Really? Do you think Israel will actually send in the troops, order everyone out at gun point, bring in the bulldozers and dump trucks to clear the rubble? Then for the next 5 years kill anyone who comes near the site to protest whilst the new one is being built? Do you think Israel would be right to do this? Would you be cheering them on?

              Tell me are you one of those people praying for war in the middle east in the hope it will bring about the rapture and tribulation?

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That's such an interesting pov. I never think that way... that my will would come to pass. Pray for war? Never. See, what I believe is that whatever is going to happen is in motion and has been since the beginning of time. I am a spectator to the events of man and God's interventions. I don't know what will happen. In my mind, it could be literally anything. An earthquake? I don't know. But I hold that the Bible is true and without flaw. I hold that the events God said would take place, will. My will doesn't enter in. God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

                1. bBerean profile image60
                  bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  And it should be noted the events, horrible as they will be, are not because of God's will but rather the culmination of the reign of man's will.  God will intervene just prior to man's self destruction being fully realized.

                2. Disappearinghead profile image90
                  Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Thing is if Revelation is really the word of God why does John imagine a heaven inspired by Babylonian astrology?

                  1. Sed-me profile image84
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I have no idea if that is fact or not, but it is of little meaning to me. I would imagine with your knowledge you would know that when it comes to spiritual things, the darkness has the same intel as the light.

            2. bBerean profile image60
              bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I remember being confused that prophecy seemed to indicate a soon return, but that would require the US be rendered irrelevant, not having, or refusing to use the power, to protect Israel.  Unimaginable in the early '80s, but not so hard to imagine now.  The temple will be rebuilt.

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                May God be true and every man a liar. Rm 3:4

              2. Disappearinghead profile image90
                Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If you too insist that the temple will be rebuilt perhaps you can answer the questions I posed to Sed-me?

                I find it shocking that the US does not appear to consider that children and babies in Gaza need protecting when Israel targets hospitals and schools. My wife was telling me earlier about a heart rending news report where shrapnel was being removed from a six month old without anesthetic. But then I guess the life of Israeli is worth 20 unwashed Palestinians.

                1. Sed-me profile image84
                  Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Why would the temple being rebuilt mean that the ppl in the Gaza strip were to be attacked further?
                  Is that the only scenario you can imagine?

                  1. Disappearinghead profile image90
                    Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    They're not directly linked and I never suggested they were. Berean talked about the US supporting Israel,  and I'm suggesting this is support blinkered to the war crimes committed by Israel. Israel doesn't need to use the temple as an excuse.

                2. bBerean profile image60
                  bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  And so you eagerly consume the meal prepared for you as Hamas wraps and surrounds it's weapons in innocents, that it might exploit the inevitable footage to garner world sympathy. 

                  If interested in a well documented perspective rarely articulated on this conflict, I highly recommend at least considering this resource:

                  "Judgment Day! Islam, Israel and the Nations"
                  http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Day-Isla … 1928660320

                  1. Disappearinghead profile image90
                    Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    OK suppose the city where you lived was blockaded for 7 years by a foreign invader that was also dispossessing your countrymen in another city across the river. Your city has been turned into an effective prison camp. Would you be surprised if some of your countrymen decided to launch home made rockets against this people that bombs you with no regard for women and children? Have you turned on the news recently? Last I saw 34 Israelis killed (mostly soldiers on a ground offensive) 550 unarmed Palestinians.

    6. Quilligrapher profile image90
      Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      G’day, Beth. So nice to see you here under your new persona. You are a good and selfless person. I am in awe of your empathy for others.

      If you have God in your heart then there is no need to quote chapter and verse. Through your faith in each other, you can speak directly to Him and He to you. Nor do you and I need chapter and verse to tell each other what is in our hearts. With respect for your particular viewpoint, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of other viewpoints that are equally valid. Here is just one.

      God already knows about the plight of these suffering families. He does not, after all, rely on humans to bring Him up to speed on world events.

      He will help these people or He will not help these people in accordance with His own determination. He does not sit with clipboard and abacus to tally the number of prayers received on their behalf. Life does not mimic American Idol or vise versa. The number of votes He receives does not decide the outcome. No specific score needs to be reached before He decides if or how He will intervene. Hence, the number of prayer petitioners does not alter the fate of the suffering families. Their faith and the help they will be given in their time of need is in His hands and not in ours.   

      Unlike prayers of adoration, prayers of petition express a total lack of trust in God’s ability to deal with any and every earthly circumstance. Further, such prayers assume that the destiny of others is controllable by people or by some presumed level of faith.

      Prayers of petition are not altruistic. The supplicant always benefits far more spiritually than the subject. The needy gain no benefits since, as we all know, prayers are not packaged with a guarantee. The benefits to the needy are nil while the petitioner gains inner peace of mind, relief from a burden of helplessness and the false sense that they have contributed to another’s well being. God, however, knows the outcome long before the prayers are even offered.   

      I thank you so much, Beth, for listening. There are hundreds, even thousands, of other viewpoints in this world. I hope in time you get to hear and to consider them all.
      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

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        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I tend to agree with your viewpoint and, as do you, I understand that other viewpoints are equally valid. However, I always wonder what good can come of attempting to convince a person who believes in the power of prayer that there is none to be had. I think faith in God displayed in this manner is tied to the example of Abraham as he accompanied the angels on part of their journey to Sodom. He, the one said to be the first in faith, continued to question concerning the impending judgment. One would wonder if Lot and his family might have been spared without that intervention. I have no doubt that had Lot been lost in the fire Abraham would have found cause to believe the action was justified; but he stepped forth to ensure God understood that he did not see the fairness of the impending judgment.

        I don’t think the people who fervently pray that their understanding of mercy and justice to be achieved think cosmic actions are resolved through popular vote from participants on earth. I remember when my father found out he was going to die. He didn’t want to. He did everything he could to find a way to avert it. But, his most spoken saying during that difficult time was ‘God’s will be done.’ He was resolved to stoically accepting fate if fate didn’t go quite the way he’d planned and he wanted his family to find peace with it. I prayed during that time. I didn’t ask for him to live, per se. In many situations continued life is not the better option. I just asked that the best possible outcome for my father be achieved. Was it? Who knows. Only he could know and he is no longer with us, so cannot share his opinion of the outcome.

        The call for a prayer of petition is not necessarily indicative of a lack of trust in God’s abilities. It is, in many cases, simply a cry for understanding. An outlet for compassion, when the compassion felt for the person in need cannot find an appropriate action which will help that person. It’s a big world we live in. The news is chock full of information on people who are in need of safety and comfort. We are simply voyagers through life on boats separated by time and space. The news is, for all intents and purposes to many of us, a message in a bottle. One’s heart can go out to many, but hands of help cannot. I see the call for a prayer of petition not so much a cry to God, but to one’s fellow man. Sure, they may ask God to help; but the greater good is done in the public verbalization of that hope. In the bringing to the attention of others a perceived wrong done. If that belief in wrong is shared and others take up the cry it is entirely possible that the message will move from person to person until someone close enough, or powerful enough, to lend aid will hear it and help.

        I agree that prayers of petition benefit the supplicant most, at the moment of the prayer. But, I personally think there is no selfless act. So, it’s a moot point, in my mind. Life comes with no guarantees but if we do not voice our dreams of what would constitute fairness; if we don’t cry out in horror at perceived wrongs, if all of humanity simply hunkered down and ‘trusted in God’s plan’ where would we be? Worse off than we are, I think.

        1. Sed-me profile image84
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          As always, I am floored by your response.
          For someone "undecided" about God, you have so much insight.

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            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, the word God is too big to be encompassed by any philosophy or religion. I'm not really undecided as much as I am certain that the term is used too often in a possessive frame of mind. God, the Divine, Creator or simply the universal consciousness belongs to no one, and everyone, simultaneously. We shouldn't attempt to hog it for ourselves, or those of like mind. Not saying that is what you are doing here, but it is what I see religion as attempting to do.

            1. Sed-me profile image84
              Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Im sure you're right. It is the word of God to man. Jesus is the word of God made flesh. It becomes intensely personal to believers. However, I am of the mind that many of us (myself included) will get to Heaven and our jaws will drop over the things we thought we knew. God is too big to be understood fully by we mere mortals, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying.

        2. Quilligrapher profile image90
          Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Nice to read your comments, Emile.

          There is no justification for suggesting in your opening remarks that an attempt was made to convince a person to change their beliefs. One needs to be extremely insecure to interpret every contrasting opinion as a covert affront to one’s worldview. Two people can, and many times do, have quite different perspectives on an issue and both can be correct. Only in the religious forum do I find this NOT widely accepted as a given. How sad is that? To me, this entire mindset is intellectually bankrupt!

          Too often close-minded animosity undermines every honest attempt to exchange ideas. How curious it is to see you defend this posture and then go on to expound upon your own viewpoints. Unlike your reaction, however, I will not construe your remarks as an attempt to convince me to change my beliefs. Or should I? big_smile

          I am happy to read that you and I agree on so many points, Emile, particularly on those who benefit the most from prayers of petition. Meanwhile, we can agree to disagree on those who do not.

          Stay well and do continue to follow your bliss.
          http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

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            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I would disagree as to your intent.

            Had Beth posed a question as to personal opinion of the value of a prayer of petition, the intent of a prayer of petition and the mindset of the person making the request that people join them in prayer, your comments would reflect such an intent.

            As it stands, she simply made a request that people pray; so your post was more of an effort to point out the pointless nature of such a request, or such an act.

            Either way, I was simply voicing an opinion (as was clearly stated, if I remember correctly). I am somewhat curious as to why it would elicit such a response.

      2. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        How very interesting. As many readers in this forum, I have been so impressed with your responses to many posts. I am surprised to read this one and feel you have completely missed the point of mine.
        How could I disagree with you that God is in control and in need of no man? How could I disagree with the fact that there are many points of view? You have just expressed your own, have you not? It differs than the one I expressed. So which of us has missed the fact that we are allowed our own viewpoints?

        I'm not sure why you wish to stymy my reliance on scripture, but that would be a losing battle. Being fully in love with the Word of God, and fully reliant, I can not picture myself without it. It is a part of me. What would a student be without his books? At what point does he cast them aside? So I will show you, from my study of scripture why I pray. It is, after all, my viewpoint, if you are interested.

        I Tim 2:1-7
        "I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles. Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing."

        Phil 4:6
        "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God."

        I could go on, as the examples of God teaching us to pray are numerous. Even Christ himself asking the disciples to pray before he was to withstand the cross. But I agree with you that God does not *need our prayers, but the Bible teaches us, over and over, that He desires them.

        We pray to be in relationship with God.
        We pray to be a part of His work... b/c what matters to Him, should matter to us.
        We pray b/c God has established this as an act of worship.

        And most importantly, and one I thought I had highlighted in my earlier posting...

        We do not pray for our will, but that God's will be done.

        So if I understood your suggestions, that scripture was not of great importance, and that prayer for others and world events was unnecessary... I would have to respectfully say, I believe you are off the mark, fully and completely.

        There are a great many things I do not know, but of these things... I have no doubt.

        Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

        1. Quilligrapher profile image90
          Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Beth.

          For some reason, you have become unnecessarily defensive. It is hard for me to image this kind of a reaction from you if we were discussing how to grow roses.

          Not everyone that has a different opinion than you wishes to change your mind. I certainly do not. I did not challenge your being allowed your own viewpoint about prayer nor did I challenge the benefits of all prayers by merely discussing another perspective.

          I hope you have a pleasant evening. 
          http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I s'pose I would only feel defensive about my roses if you told me I had planted them wrong.
            Again, I am glad you contributed. smile

            (It appears you did not like my spelling of stymy? http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/stymy
            http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stymy)

            1. Quilligrapher profile image90
              Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Direct from the Miriam Webster online dictionary:
              stymy
              "The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above."

              Miriam Webster and I both stand corrected.
              http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                That is indeed odd. It was my spell check that first informed me of the correct spelling. Is nothing to be trusted these days? lol

          2. savvydating profile image87
            savvydatingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Quilligrapher...that was an unecessary statement. Sed-me was not being defensive. Why stoop to such a common and faulty attack?

            Really, it is a shame that so many people here are suspicious about a request for prayer to an entity for whom they have no regard. Furthermore, it is highly innappropriate for anyone to tell Sed-Me how to request prayer, especially from those who are prayerless and/or disbelieving. One prays as the Holy Spirit compels one to pray. That's how it works. Sed-me clearly has compassion for all those who are suffering; she simply chose to make a special prayer request. There is nothing unusual about that.

            1. Sed-me profile image84
              Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you. It is amazing what kind of reaction this simple request for prayer has elicited. Even ppl who are usually level headed and unbiased seem adversely affected. But in truth, there have been no selfish acts requested. Just a prayer for victims. Where is the actual bigotry found in this thread? In the prayer for a group under attack or those who say we have no right to pray for them?

              The opposition says "Isis is a religious group, therefore, you are the same as them." Then they say, "The Iraqi Christians are not your family, you don't even know them." Which is it? Are we affiliated with ppl b/c of their faith or are we not affiliated with ppl b/c of their faith? We do not share the beliefs of Isis. They live in absolute opposition to the teachings of the Bible. The Iraqi Christians have fled for their lives, unwilling to sacrifice their faith. These ppl who believe the Bible to be the holy word of God are the ppl we call our family. No one can put words in our mouth, no one can speak for us. This is the truth, we have no need to argue.

              We move on by shining a light on the victims of Isis, bringing attention to their plight and doing whatever we are capable of to help. If you pray, pray. If you have the ability to affect the decisions of the Administration, do so. With the air strikes and humanitarian aide, we are off to a good start. I see these as answers to prayers.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not going to argue any more as you now seem to be praying for all the victims. I am however just wondering something and am hoping you will find the time to respectively answer my question as follows.

                If you feel that the aid and bombing are answers to prayers, do you also feel that ISIS's prayers are being answered by their resent success? They pray several times a day and who's to say that the Sunni strong hold in the middle east isn't a result of that prayer?

                I'll leave you alone if you give me an honest answer.

                1. Sed-me profile image84
                  Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  God does not answer the prayers of the evil. Does that even make sense to you that He would?
                  Thank you for leaving me alone now (19 pages later)... would have been good had we started out that way.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Keeping in mind they don't think they are evil, they think they are following the commands of the Quran, they view the west as evil as we do the opposite of what the Quran asks. Can you see how they would see their success being the result of them praying several times a day?

                    Bye.

              2. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Amen!

      3. GA Anderson profile image87
        GA Andersonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I seldom dare dip my toes in religious forum discussions, but ISIS in the title got my attention.

        I completely agree with your response. But I wonder what made you feel it was necessary to criticize a person of faith as being selfish for offering a very common sentiment of the faithful?

        Even though I agree with your primary point about "petitioning" prayers, (except the insistence that they indicate a "lack of trust"), I saw sed-me's post as an offering of human compassion, not an effort to make herself feel good because she is showing she cares.

        Is her viewpoint not as valid to her faith as those other hundreds or thousands you speak of? Or is it that "prayers of petition" are a particular pet peeve of yours?

        I really am surprised that you felt your response was necessary. But then again, I am out-of-my-depth in religious discussions, so maybe I am the one that is out of line.

        GA

    7. LailaK profile image78
      LailaKposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So sad what goes on in this world. We definitely are praying that terrorism in all of its forms ends in all parts of the world. I asked a couple of Muslim friends of mine and they are absolutely outraged by what's going on. We are hoping that this ends soon!

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Im sure they are plagued by terrorism as well. It's hard to believe what we have all permitted. I never complain when countries with resources offer help to countries in need.

    8. Segun Tewogbola profile image82
      Segun Tewogbolaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Great hub, passionate words. Christians should leave the place if and where it is possible. But the Truth is that No power or nation can wipe away Christianity or Israel as a nation from where they stand. Just watch!

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        +1

      2. Disappearinghead profile image90
        Disappearingheadposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        And exactly the same thing can be said of Islam.

        This sort of statement implies that Christianity and Judaism have some special favour and the God will protect their adherents. I guess you also champion the Israeli cause against Gaza today.

        1. Sed-me profile image84
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I hope this doesn't sound argumentative, but it seems to me you are actually trying to infer things that aren't there. Who on earth does God *not* care for?

          2Pet 3:9
          "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

          God sent his son that *all* might be saved. His love is without limit. The bible says that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Hard times are in store for all. We have the opportunity to pray for all of mankind, and all of mankind has the opportunity to respond.

    9. 0
      SassySue1963posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So just wow.

      This is perhaps the most disgusting display of the anti-Christian movement I've seen here on Hubpages.


      @Wilderness The OP simply requested that those of faith pray for the safety of these people who are certainly being persecuted because of their faith. Is it really necessary to take that request and use it as an opportunity to bash some radical Christians in Africa? Usually I find you to be quite rational and accepting of everyone, even when we disagree on issues.

      @Rad Man So you don't believe in God or prayer. That's fine. Why do you find it so necessary to take a simple prayer request and try to dictate how, when and for whom someone else should pray?

      This wasn't formed in any fashion as a debate. There was no political bent to the OPs request. They simply stated a tragic circumstance and made a simple request.

      smh

      1. 0
        Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It is simply another example of religious intolerance. Atheists think, since they don't believe in God, it isn't fair to classify their actions as such; but actions of this sort do qualify. Sadly, this tactic appears to be a nonviolent way to attempt to run Christians out of town. This statement is not meant to belittle the suffering of those who had to seek refuge in the mountains. I simply wonder if atheists bent on seeking out and belittling those of faith understand that intolerance of that sort first starts with words and actions such as theirs.

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Let's see, we have one religious group upset because another branch of their own religion is running the country so they are attempting to cleans the entire nation of anything but their own sect. And you don't think Atheists should be criticizing religion at this point?

          1. Cat333 profile image82
            Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            They should be loving and criticize hate and violence based on hate, as should everyone.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Right, let's not bring up that it's religion that is motivating Isis.

              Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)
              Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL)
              Islamic State (IS)

              1. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Many demonic gods are now and have throughout history been served, but their leader is one and the same. He is the same "god" who reigns throughout this earth in the present age, even in the lives of those who claim no god. He is as bloodthirsty now as ever, but he works in various deceptive ways, all intended to destroy God's creation and keep people from the love and salvation of the Lord.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Fantasy. That's all made up stuff without any evidence. Chris says God is behind everything and you claim demonic Gods are responsible. All of which takes the blame away from it's source, humanity.

                  1. Cat333 profile image82
                    Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    God is sovereign over all. He gave humans what they demonstrated that they "wanted" - in their unfaithfulness, they chose (and still choose) to love and follow the enemy, Satan. So Satan has been given reign here on earth (the curse). But Satan has no power over God and all God's purposes and plans will come to pass. God made a way to escape the curse, come out victoriously, and live eternally WITH HIM. Satan cannot act to destroy God's ultimate purposes and promises. So, for example, Satan and his forces attempted to get rid of or destroy the work of Jesus Christ several times before the appointed time of his death and resurrection, but they were unable. The fullness of what Christ had come for was going to be carried out due to the ultimate sovereignty of God, and no plan or action of the devil was able to change that. We who put our faith and trust in God will in the end be victorious through the power and might of our Lord. And soon Jesus Christ is returning and he will rule here on earth.

                    All truly good things come from the Lord because he is the source of all goodness. And he sends what is needed to both the "righteous" and the unrighteous.

          2. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            All I see here, basically, is people belittling others for believing prayer works, belittling others for asking anyone to be prayed for and basically upset that they didn't make an all inclusive statement when they asked for prayer. I don't see a positive attempt, just negativity flowing freely, as if that were somehow righteous.

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              What need to know is the facts. The fact is this mess is all about faith. ISIS takes it on faith that they are part of Gods plan. There faith tells them that their particular version of Sunni should rule the middle east, so they are first attacking anyone other than themselves first and for most, which includes the Palestinian Sunni group Hamas as apostates who have no legitimate authority to lead jihad, it regards fighting Hamas as the first step toward confrontation with Israel.

              So praying for the Christians who are being displaced while ignoring Shia and other Sunni Muslims as well and the many other religious people who are being killed is rather hypercritical and is just the kind of thing that causes this problem in the first place.

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Because NPR did not mention any other group. NPR, a well known *secular radio news station, reported that it was the Christians that were under direct attack. I doubt  NPR the *secular station, from where I got the information, got any calls asking them to try to drum up names of other groups that were receiving treatment that equaled that which the Christians were receiving at the time of the report. When they reported other groups under fire, I did too.

                1. 0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Is that your only source of news. Early on some of us asked you repeatedly to include other groups, but you refused.

                  "When we hear these stories, those of us who pray, pray. It is our privilege to pray for those in need. But when someone in our own family is being threatened, we may feel a sense of urgency b/c we can identify with it, as you would if your actual neighbors went to war as opposed to ppl you didn't know."

                  We are all humans and all family. Dividing us up along religious lines is the cause of these problems.

                  1. Cat333 profile image82
                    Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Please see my previous post to you. We are all part of the human race created by God and should certainly care about all those who are part of the human race. But FAMILY is something altogether different, and no we're not all one big family (though we cannot know who MAY become a part of our spiritual family, so we cannot make any assumptions). Regardless, we're called to love all people, so our great love for our family members is not to lessen our love for the world.

                  2. Sed-me profile image84
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The way you spend your efforts creating drama where there is none is a shameful and empty effort.

              2. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You may hope the best for all those going into surgery on any given day, even though they're not in your family and not really known to you, but it is YOUR FAMILY who you make sure is in a good hospital with good care, has a competent doctor, has relief from pain, has the support of loved ones and so on. And you are not wrong for this.

                So also the Christian does in fact pray for and hope the best for ALL people (especially innocent victims), but it is their own family - their brothers and sisters in Christ- that they will be concerned for MOST of all.

                This does NOT mean they do not care about others. They may care equally to you or anyone else regarding the pain and suffering of all people throughout the world, and then may go UP from there in their concern for their own spiritual family members.

            2. Cat333 profile image82
              Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Well said.

          3. 0
            Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Certainly. A request for people to pray for the downtrodden definitely qualifies as being one and the same as these terrorists. Harassing Christians for the simple act of caring definitely needs to be done. What was I thinking?

            1. 0
              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Harassing Christians?

              1. 0
                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Yep.

                Where do you come up with the black woman, white woman example? Beth heard a report on NPR. She simply asked for people to pray for those people showcased on that report. She wasn't attempting to sideline any relief efforts for others. She wasn't implying she didn't care about others. It was a simple request that you have chosen to view in the worst possible light.

                You've made a mountain out of a mole hill. I think you know that. The smart thing, at this point, would be to drop it.

    10. oceansnsunsets profile image89
      oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I will pray for them, and no I can't imagine it.

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you Oceans. The prayers of a righteous man avails much. smile

    11. Cgenaea profile image61
      Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      3 weeks ago?!?!?!? Today is my first day seeing this forum.
      As I read, I noticed a familiar feeling. This was predicted, right?
      Not that it hasn't happened before.
      I wonder what the World religion will be.

      I am praying for the Christian in Mosul. This must be a hard road. Serious business...
      Wonder how long it will take them to get to America...

      1. oceansnsunsets profile image89
        oceansnsunsetsposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Praying is something we can actually do from so far away, that actually helps ( I truly believe), that I wonder why I don't do it more.  I get so busy with things and have my own concerns that pale to nothing in comparison to what they are going through.  I am glad for the reminder and glad you are praying too.

        1. Cgenaea profile image61
          Cgenaeaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes. I do feel somewhat helpless in this because these things must come. It is certain that through it all, the will of the Lord will be done.
          I hate that we cannot pray for the stopping of murder (well we can, but people have their own minds, and may do as they see fit). There is a special place in heaven for martyrs. I will pray for their peace of mind; and assurance that God will meet them in the air.

    12. Writer Fox profile image79
      Writer Foxposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The answer is Yes,  not just in Mosul, but all over the world.

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't see a question in my post so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

    13. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Prayer is good for the soul. Moving is good for the body.

  2. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 2 years ago

    For a moment I confused, thinking you referred to the gays in Africa being persecuted and killed by the Christians.

    By all means, we should pray to stop all people from following the edicts and wishes of their gods.

  3. 0
    Rad Manposted 2 years ago

    Please forgive me guys, but here is the problem I see.

    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?N … 9KUEVa_PW0

    “I am gravely concerned about the physical safety of several minority groups in Iraq, including Christians, Shia – a minority in the North, Shabaks, Turkmen, Yazidis and others, who are being persecuted on the grounds of their religion and ethnicity,”

    "Large numbers of Christians have already fled Mosul, including some 350 families who left on 19 July for northern Ninewa and Dohuk, which are under Kurdish control. According to sources, only a few Christians, who are extremely poor or unable to travel, remain in the city."


    Do you guys not think that if you are going to pray for people who are being mistreated by ISIS then you should pray for all of the people being persecuted rather than simple praying for the one group that has the money to be able to leave? That's all, I mean no offence. I'll leave you guys to it.

    1. Sed-me profile image84
      Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. There is no reason we can't or shouldn't be praying for all of them. I hope you will join us at some point.

  4. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    In addition:

    Please pray for “Amir," an Iranian Christian serving two years in prison outside Tehran after being caught with a truckload of Bibles. There are reports Amir has been scheduled for execution in August. A VOM partner ministry that is encouraging his family is asking for prayer. Please pray for Amir’s deliverance, for his loved ones and for the church in Iran.

    1. 0
      SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Praying for Amir now.  Jesus prayed for Peter, that his faith would not fail him.

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you SirDent. I just had this sense, while I was praying that we should pray for his escape, and that he could get to safety.

        1. 0
          SirDentposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You are welcome and I will agree with you that he escapes.  Thanks for sharing your feelings on it.

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Of course. smile

  5. 0
    SirDentposted 2 years ago

    Jesus told the disciple to tarry and he will pray that the Father send another comforter.  This is descriptive of a prayer of petition.

    The Bible also states, if you lack wisdom, pray for it and it will be given.  Another example of a petition.

  6. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Please continue to pray for the ppl of Mosul and all the ppl Isis is attacking. They have recently chased one religious group into the mountains. They have no food or water and at least 40 children have died. In addition, there is great fear that they will cut the power to surrounding areas b/c of the dam they have taken control of. They say Iraq will not allow them to have control long, but until authorities can make a move, the ppl are not safe. There was talk of them flooding the city, but as it is their capital, it is unlikely. America is taking action by dropping humanitarian packages into the mountains, but who knows how long these ppl will last. The situation is dire.

    1. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Amen.

  7. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago

    Here's what the Russian media is reporting as to the Iraq situation, https://plus.google.com/+RTAmerica/posts/dxgTnbhCP2S (it's a short post).

    Interesting to say the least.

    1. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting but not unexpected.


      I wish I could say there's no truth to that US funding charge, but the history is so convoluted and ISIS is so removed from that, you really have to torture the info to arrive at that conclusion.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        When ISIS said they're coming after the US and will raise the flag of Allah over the White House... Well, scr@w them. I hope we bomb the sh!t out of them (ISIS). Better there than here.

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Believe me, no one is less in favor of America as an Islamic state than I am. I have just seen too many unintended consequences...

          1. paradigmsearch profile image89
            paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I know. My rant was at the world in general. big_smile


            Story of my life. lol

  8. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 2 years ago

    Well, it's all over the news that ISIS is beheading women and children.

    And they're not only killing every Christian they can find, they're also killing any Muslim they find who doesn't immediately convert to the ISIS sect.

    And ISIS is quite proud of what they are doing. So much so, they are happily taking and showing pictures and videos of it all.

    Here's my question for the day...

    Why aren't all the neighboring Muslim countries sending in their own troops to put a stop to this? Why is the Middle East so adamantine in its refusal to clean up its own backyard?

    1. Sed-me profile image84
      Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, they've said on the radio that Isis would be a terror for months now. I don't know if we can comprehend the horror ppl are living in right now. Our problems are so incredibly small in comparison. These ppl need our prayer! Although those of different races and religions are in the most danger, really no one is safe, not even here. They pose a real threat. Please, everyone who prays, pray!

      1. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If it makes you feel good then go ahead, but prayer has no effect on anything other than your own actions and thoughts. Action however does work.

        1. Sed-me profile image84
          Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          What action will you be taking?

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Mr. Obama is taking action. These people need to understand that there is no God behind them.

            1. Sed-me profile image84
              Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So Mr. Obama has a plan, those of us who believe will be praying, and what will you be doing?

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Nothing I can do, nothing you can do. I am however wishing that the surrounding countries would do something to help. Why don't they do anything? What's wrong with Iran? It's interesting that so many Muslims say that Islam is a peaceful religion but they refuse to fight the extremists. There are people fighting from the north and from the south, but someone needs to step in and say enough.

                But go ahead and pray for all the effected people if it makes you feel you are helping.

                1. Sed-me profile image84
                  Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  There is more power in prayer than in any battleground maneuver. Your comment doesn't seem to have added anything to the thread, but I hope making it made you feel better.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Show me that prayer is more powerful than an army? All studies done on prayer have turned up negative. It does nothing. They are simply thoughts inside your head that have no impact on anything other than your thoughts and body.

                    However if you promise to pray today and the crisis's in the middle east are resolved overnight then I guess you have something.

                    If prayer worked we'd have no starving children and no ebola in Africa.

  9. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    I received this from a friend. I removed the leaders name in case it could bring him trouble. Please pray, this is urgent!



    ********************************************************************
    Subject: Urgent News & Prayer Request from CRI - Crisis Relief International

    The horrific magnitude of what is happening in northern Iraq is beyond our modern-day comprehension.  The reports are clearly of Biblical proportions and prophetic significance.

    John 16:2b “an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.”

    Revelation 20:4 “Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God,”

    JH

    BREAKING URGENT NEWS!

    Dear Friends,

    Just a few minutes ago I received the following text message on my phone from ______ _______ who leads Crisis Relief International (CRI). We then spoke briefly on the phone and I assured him that we would share this urgent prayer need with all of our contacts.

    "We lost the city of Queragosh (Qaraqosh). It fell to ISIS and they are beheading children systematically. This is the city we have been smuggling food to. ISIS has pushed back Peshmerga (Kurdish forces) and is within 10 minutes of where our CRI team is working. Thousands more fled into the city of Erbil last night. The UN evacuated its staff in Erbil. Our team is unmoved and will stay. Prayer cover needed!"

    For more information on Northern Iraq:

    1.) ISIS Fighters Overrun Iraq’s Largest Christian Town Qaraqosh, Residents Flee: http://www.inquisitr.com/1397185/isis-c … -qaraqosh/

    2.) Email Prayer Bulletin from International Prayer Council (John Robb): http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com … ae529a824a

    3.) Iraqi MP Breaks Down in Tears Pleading Parliament to Save Yazidis from Genocide: http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4406.htm

    Please pray sincerely for the deliverance of the people of Northern Iraq from the terrible advancement of ISIS and its extreme Islamic goals for mass conversion or death for Christians across this region.

    May I plead with you not to ignore this email. Do not forward it before you have prayed through it. Then send it to as many people as possible.

    Send it to friends and Christians you may know. Send it to your prayer group. Send it to your pastor and phone him/her to pray on Sunday during the service - making a special time of prayer for this. We need to stand in the gap for our fellow Christians.

    Blessings

    1. Cat333 profile image82
      Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you so much for sharing all this, Sed-me! It brings me to tears and I will be praying for all the victims!

      The time of the end is fast approaching and after a "little while" we'll see the end of suffering. Come, Lord Jesus, come!

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It's so hard to fathom. We are here in the safety of our own homes and half way across the world an entire city of Christians is being forced out and executed... innocent children. We must pray.

        1. Cat333 profile image82
          Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yes!!

  10. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Latest report:
    Isis has raised up an army of 1000 men from around the world. They will focus on the US before too long, but right now absolute atrocities are being committed in Iraq. They buried 500 ppl alive, they have taken hundreds of women as sex slaves, they are killing children and pursuing ppl of different religions into the hills. The Yazidi ppl are not even being treated as well as the Christians, which is saying something. Ppl have run into the mountains with no food and water, ppl are dying of starvation... children decapitated.

    John McCain has called for air strikes. The UN is beginning efforts (much too late.) The only safe place for these religious minority groups now is in the mountains of Kurdistan. It is the only place now that Isis and it's ilk do not have control over.

    PLEASE PRAY!

  11. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    John 9:2-3
    …And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So people die young or suffer so that we can see Gods word displayed?

      Does that make any sense?

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Not to you, no. To those of us who realize God is worthy of all power, praise and glory... yes... it makes sense.

        I went to the funeral of a 4 year old little girl who loved Jesus and exuded joy. She died in a car accident and later, her family reported that like 20 ppl gave their lives to Christ after her funeral b/c of her life's witness.

        She is in Heaven, awaiting the rest of her family. They are eternally proud of her and will never stop loving her.. they are also awaiting the reunion. This is sacred... it's holy. At this moment, it may be beyond your understanding... that's not your fault. But to those of us who knew her family... let's just say, it's not something I want to debate. I'd like to just share that story with you and then take a break for a while. smile

  12. JMcFarland profile image93
    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago

    I think that what's being said is if you pray for something and it happens,  how do you determine whether or not it is a result of the fact that you prayed for it,  or if it was just statistically going to happen or if it was just a random coincidence that it happened?  From there,  how do you determine where the source of that answered prayer (if it was answered prayer) was,  or do you just automatically assume that the deity you prayed to answered your prayer (which would fall under confirmation bias.)  If someone not of your belief system prayed to a different diety and claim that their prayers were answered,  I don't see many people Acknowledging that as proof of an alternative diety.   In fact,  I see many jumping through multiple hoops to claim that it's anything BUT.   Yet when believers claim answered prayer,  it as always used as proof that their God claim is true.   It just doesn't work both ways.
    People pray for everything from the mundane to the miraculous,  but statistics and prayer studies by Christian organizations show that,  strictly statistically speaking,  prayer is no more effective for the mundane or the miracles g than random occurrence or chance are.

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      It would appear that ISIS is currently getting it's prayers answered. Does that mean their God is the correct version of God? They have an army of about 20 thousand and are taking ground from the Iraqi army of 500 thousand to a million. It's the same logic that the Israelites used until things turned against them. At this point 54% of Jews consider themselves non-religious.

      1. Cat333 profile image82
        Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        YET it is our Lord who prophesied (through his messengers, as recorded in the Spirit-inspired Word) and said very specifically that these things MUST happen when the end is near!!! So their assumed "successes" do not point to the truth of their "gods", but to the One who has foretold the end from the beginning and whose words and promises will all come to pass!

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          LOL, you have confirmation that the end is coming, but you just don't know the date. How incredibly convenient.

    2. Cat333 profile image82
      Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Please see my post to Rad Man.

      What would be the motivation of "Christian" groups publishing studies that showed NO effectiveness of prayer? What would compel them to present what would supposedly be considered a "failure" (when they are under no obligation to do so)? That's somewhat like a lawyer presenting evidence for the other side, or a ball player trying to score a point for the opposing team. Sounds a little fishy. Like maybe something else in the spiritual realm is going on and Satan has his hand in it.

      1. JMcFarland profile image93
        JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        In the realm of research,  it's called honesty.   If you get money to conduct a study,  you owe your contributers the study,  regardless of whether or not the results are favorable.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/healt … l&_r=0

        Look up the prayer study from the Templeton Foundation for the actual paper gleaned from the research.   Just because something does not verify your beliefs does not mean it was due to Satan.   That's absolutely absurd,  and you have no evidence to back it up.

      2. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        No, they honestly presented what they found. They honestly thought the results would be different and presented the evidence honestly. Wouldn't that have been what you would have done?

        1. Cat333 profile image82
          Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If I were to study prayer, sure, but since I don't think God would be pleased by such and since answers are not always what we want, but what his will is, then I would never be studying the "effectiveness" of prayer. I don't know that these researchers were following the will of God, and I wouldn't expect the Spirit to act in such cases. I wouldn't think God's people would expect such, so I'm suspicious of the researchers already.

          The whole thing is even more suspicious to me because a well known fact of getting published is that generally only those studies that find SOMETHING get published. Here I'm not talking about religious studies specifically. If you find NO statistical difference, your study is not typically appealing to publishers. This is why all the graduate students performing research for publication were so intent on finding something of statistical significance (and why not all were honest). But it looks like here the publishers may have WANTED the study to find no differences and thus published it. Maybe it's the study that did find a statistical difference that they turned down for publication. It's all too much in the control of the world, in which Satan reigns.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Did you follow the links Julie provided that shows the religious group who funded the study? Why would any God who wanted us to believe in him purposely mislead us so that the studies turn up empty? It's nonsensical.

            1. Cat333 profile image82
              Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It really doesn't matter WHO the religious group was that funded the study. God is not some test subject amenable to our control and study. I wouldn't expect the Holy Spirit to show up at our command rather than our humble faith and reliance on him. That's not misleading us. I'm sure the devil had a field day with that study.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I suspect you would have sounded different if the result were different?

                1. Cat333 profile image82
                  Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I would be uncomfortable with any such dishonoring of God, regardless.

    3. Chris Neal profile image84
      Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I can't really speak for other people. One thing I've struggled with frequently is the nature of 'supernatural'. Many times, when I see something as answered prayer, it is in fact for something 'mundane' (usually money) and I don't always see it right away. Recently I was able to purchase a scratch'n'dent clothes dryer. A little scuffed but otherwise completely new. I've been needing one for a long time. I thought about it and realized that, although certainly someone less inclined to believe in prayer than myself could quite easily see it differently, it was still an answer to prayer, mine and other people's.

      Would it be nice if I, or perhaps someone who was seen as generally more faithful by large groups of people (Billy Graham, for instance) could pretty consistently point to examples of 'answered prayer' independently verified by multiple, unbiased witnesses? Of course it would. Or if I could point to two or three 'big' examples. The proverbial mustard seed faith thing. But God doesn't work that way. A lot of times I simply have to have faith that things that I prayed for that did, indeed, come to pass but not in "miraculous" ways are answered prayer. I've long believed that God uses people.

      (For those of you familiar with such things, I am not in any way advocating 'woman in the parking lot' sort of stories. That's certainly never happened to me or anyone else I know.)

      1. JMcFarland profile image93
        JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        But what I'm saying Chris is there's no logical progression from prayer,  wait,  get what I asked for = necessarily resulted from prayer.   What I mean is,  how do you rule out the possibility of it happening on its own,  regardless of whether you prayed for it or not?   How do you determine what is an actual answered prayer,  what is coincidence and what is simple odds,  and how do you back up that determination?

        1. Cat333 profile image82
          Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Even though I was reprimanded by you the last time I gave an answer (and it seems you prefer to be the one to initiate our interactions), I have something to say that someone might find of interest.

          You can start by taking an example that's pretty out there and consider how likely it is to occur by chance. While my husband was in treatment for a month, so that we would miss two paychecks (and I was home with my one-year-old, not working), and even the mortgage would not be covered, I simply trusted God. Since correctional officers don't make much, and I wasn't working at the time, we didn't have savings. My husband's typical bimonthly paycheck (after insurance, etc. was removed) was around 1,450 - 1,480 (depending on the exact hours worked). Well, the mortgage was about to be due and I had no way to pay it (I'd called the mortgage company, but they said they couldn't do anything). Then what should arrive in the mail? A check for 1,480 - the amount of the missing paycheck - from a settlement company. Nearly a year earlier I'd filled out something that came in the mail regarding a class action sort of thing that said I might get $300 dollars or so from it. Quite remarkable considering 1) It was JUST the amount of the missing paycheck and nowhere close to the projected $300 that would have been unhelpful in paying the mortgage, 2) God had given me a peace about it and I was trusting him to act, 3) I don't get unanticipated checks for large amounts of money other times, and 4) I've never been in as much need for a large check at any other time than when it came. That's quite remarkable. But it doesn't end there.

          The next paycheck was due and was needed for all the other bills. So what should "happen" to occur? My husband's work, which doesn't give bonuses, gave a random, unanticipated bonus to their 200 employees, which was in a similar amount to that other missing paycheck and which covered all the bills! At no other time, except right when it was needed, has such a bonus been given out of the blue.

          You call these REMARKABLE events coincidences, I humbly and thankfully acknowledge them as the intervening hand of my Lord.

          Remember this was merely the starting point. Now we have to explain why such things happen REGULARLY in the lives of those who trust in and rely on the Lord.

        2. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          In a purely objective, verifiable-in-the-laboratory sense, I usually can't. What I do is look at it and realize that yes, this is something that I've been asking for and it came through in a way that rules out my having achieved it by my lonesome. After that, sometimes I get a feeling (although this is exceedingly rare and I am loathe to start the "Chris claims to hear directly from God" crap again) of relief or an 'a-ha' moment when I realize quite explicitly that it's God's working. A lot of times I do it as an act of faith, but as you know, Jesus said that if we don't get something at first keep asking. Sometimes it takes a while.

          1. JMcFarland profile image93
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Correct me if I'm wrong here.   You needed an inexpensive dryer.   You prayed for a dryer.   Your friends and family prayed for you to have a dryer.   Ultimately,  you found a dryer that was inexpensive - and you bought the dryer.   This is an example of answered prayer?

            1. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Between that and the money being donated that I would not have been able to come up with myself, yes. In a nutshell, that pretty well sums it up.

          2. JMcFarland profile image93
            JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If you need a dryer,  and ultimately go out and purchase a dryer,  it isn't "like" doing it on your own,  it IS doing it on your own.   

            Additionally,  God is apparently a vacation planner,  a diet planner AND a utility provider.   Do these nor all seem like crazy things to ask a god for when people are dying?  The disciples supposedly cured leprosy and raised people from the dead,  and you get a dryer?   Moved any mountains lately?

            1. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Wow.

              Did you stub your toe or something? Bad day at work? Because seriously, that's a level of sarcasm that was  truly not warranted, especially not from someone who has actually read the Bible and gone to seminary. You may not agree with it, but that was still a crap thing to say.

              Especially in light of my own history.

              1. JMcFarland profile image93
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It's not sarcasm at all.  I was incredibly serious.  I'm simply incredulous at what believers are claiming.  One says that god planned her vacation for her.  Another says that she eats like crap, but god answers prayer and helps her stay skinny and young looking.  And you got a dryer.  I'm sure that the dryer was needed, but all of these are rather mundane things, aren't they?  And these are what prayers are being answered? Compare what we're hearing on this thread to what early Christians were supposedly able to do.  Heal the blind.  Cure the sick.  Heal the time period's incurable disease.  I don't recall reading where they asked for a new coat.  I do recall them asking the Lord, if it was his will, to spare them from torture and death.  Sometimes it worked.  Sometimes it didn't.

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  I did say I can't speak for others. And I did say that my answered prayers are generally for 'mundane' things.

                  Some people do claim healing. But the fact that my wife is not still up and walking around does not mean that God never grants prayer requests. And yes, sometimes people attribute things to prayer that are not the result of answered prayer the same way they attribute bad things to external agents that are not.

                  There is a particular brand of corn on the cob that I love. It's only available for a few months a year. I believe that God provides it ultimately, but I don't believe that it magically appears. The farmers worked on breeding a strain that tasted really good, and they work darn hard to plant and grow and tend and harvest that corn. And I don't think God did it just for me. But He used them for that.

                  Similarly, just because God used human agents to get something to me that I needed and couldn't get on my own does not mean that He isn't the One who ultimately answered the prayer. If I were born rich and wanted a new car and went out and bought one out of my vast wealth, that would be different.

                  And yes, the Apostles did do "Big" miracles. Still, it says in the Bible (Jesus Himself told us) to ask for "our daily bread" and everything we need. We may not get luxuries but we will get what we need.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image93
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    What I'm trying to get at is how do you tell the difference?  How do you know which things to attribute to prayer, and which ones to attribute to coincidence?  Which ones do you attribute to the hard work and dedication of others?  Which ones do you attribute to yourself as things that you fulfilled and saw through to completion - and how do you decide?  Furthermore, how do you turn around and assert that your attribution is absolutely correct?  What is the margin of error, and how do you decide that?

                    If you are the first person to admit that most of your examples of answered prayer are for mundane things, how do you decide that they're answered prayers at all?  Surprising and unexpected things happen to people ALL THE TIME.  They happen to me all the time.  They happen to my family all the time.  Sometimes they're good, sometimes not so much.  That doesn't mean that I just get to decide carte-blanche where they came from and claim it as absolute truth.

            2. Cat333 profile image82
              Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Here's the hypocrisy in your reasoning - If it is no good to pray for any desired or only moderately needed thing because there are always more important things that could be prayed for (as if one prayer replaces another, or as if we're limited in the number of answered prayers we'll receive), then it must also be no good to buy or otherwise obtain any desired or only moderately needed thing because there are always more important things we could spend our money on. To avoid being a hypocrite, it seems that rather than buying yourself any of the many unnecessary things you do, you should send the money to those who are hungry or in need. In judging us, you're judging yourself for all the waste and self-indulgence you engage in.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You should be sending your money and the money you make from selling your possessions to the poor. It's what Jesus is said to have told you to do.

                1. Cat333 profile image82
                  Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Then you agree that it was a hypocritical stand she was taking. Because if it is "wrong" to pray for something unessential, it is likewise "wrong" to buy or work for that which is unessential. Either way, there are always more pressing matters to attend to.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    It's not "wrong" to pray for anything. Go ahead, knock yourself out, but please don't insult the intelligence of others by claiming that God answers mundane prayers when a group like ISIS is commenting genocide.

                    Do we assume that the prayers of ISIS are currently being answered over the prayers of the Christians being displaced? They have created their own state and men and women from all over the world are flocking to it.

      2. 0
        Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        So you prayed for a inexpensive second hand almost new dryer, made no attempt to let anyone know you were looking for one and someone knocked on your door with a dryer to sell?

        1. Chris Neal profile image84
          Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I wish. No, many people knew about the dryer, although I made clear that I was not asking for anyone to buy me a dryer.

          1. 0
            Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Many people knew about you needing a dryer as you asked others if anyone had one for sale, someone came forward with one and you give thanks to God as if you or the people who sold you the dryer had nothing to do with it?

            1. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I've been trying to make clear that it's not quite that straightforward. I certainly didn't have the money for it on my own.

              And yes, the Bible teaches that ultimately God supplies everything. That doesn't mean that we don't work. But sometimes He supplies things that either we couldn't get on our own or that it would take us far, far longer to get.

              And sometimes He doesn't.

              1. JMcFarland profile image93
                JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Chris, I'm really not trying to be mean.  Genuinely, I'm not.  I'm simply taken a little bit aback by what I'm hearing.

                If my washing machine breaks, and I wish for a new washing machine, and I have other people wish for a new washing machine and I end up getting one, and somehow getting the money to purchase it, can I logically say that my wish has been granted?  Should I continue wishing for things?  Should I tell others that my wishes come true?  If I don't get what I wish for, should I just say that sometimes I get them, sometimes I don't - and that's just the way it goes?

                Can you please patiently explain to me what the difference is between the scenario I just posed to you and what it is that you're saying?  It really sounds like you throw these prayers up into the atmosphere and let them fall where they may.  If you get what you want, it's obviously a fulfilled prayer request.  If you don't get what you want - oh well, sometimes you don't get what you pray for, and that's the way god works.

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  As a Calvinist I say, actually that last part is not that totally far off.

                  If you just wish for something (and I do it all the time) and it comes true, well that depends on how strongly magical your thinking is.

                  Don't forget that I specified that someone less inclined to believe in answered prayer would not have trouble believing it was not an answer to prayer. It's not a magical thing. I let people know I needed a dryer. I made clear that I was not asking them for it, just keeping people updated as they requested (it was part of a longer letter.) Over time (over a year, to be slightly more exact) people started suggesting ways to fix it. I actually did take it apart, clean it, and put it back together. The end result was that no longer did it not heat but also the light stopped working. I'm not mechanical. But then some people suggested it might be the heating element. One man said it would probably cost x amount to get it looked at and fixed. Then he decided to help me out, and instead of only giving enough to get the heating element fixed he gave me enough to buy a new, or at least functioning, dryer. I went to a big box  store and found a scratch-n-dent that was one penny less than I was given. Is any of this magical? No. And put all together it's not necessarily magical either. But I did pray for it, and so did others, and it arrived. And although I certainly believe that Jesus is Love, I also subscribe to Jonathan Edwards thinking too. I'd be an idiot not to thank God. And I do, because He's looking out for me.

                  1. JMcFarland profile image93
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I understand.  Really I do.  But stuff like that happens to people all the time.  It doesn't matter if they're a christian, an atheist, a muslim, a hindu or a deist.  It still happens at about the same rate of success.  And everyone chooses where to attribute it and why.  Some don't attribute it to anyone at all.  Some thank whatever god they believe in.  Some say that it's karma.  The bottom line is that there is absolutely no way possible to tell the difference - is there?

                  2. JMcFarland profile image93
                    JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Chris, let me ask another question.  Someone else brought this up earlier, but it was brushed aside when you were not active in the conversation.

                    Some people may state that the simple success of ISIS thus far is as a result of THEIR answered prayer.  What's to say that they're not praying to Allah to gain success over people that they consider to be infidels?  Does their success indicate that Allah is real, and watching over them somehow?

              2. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Don't feel bad Chris, the "vacation planning god" is a jab at me. Two years ago, I shared the fact that I hadn't seen my family in 5 years and wouldn't be able to for 2 more b/c my work wouldn't allow me the only vacation days off I needed to meet my family during this time. It was a terrible place to work, I ended up going to a smaller store and lo and behold, they did have that one specific week off that I might be able to see them. I had told my family I couldn't come, I was heartbroken, my younger kids barely knew my family, then out of no where, I was going.They have mocked me for sharing that story of gratefulness for years now and then blink innocently when accused of making unkind barbs.

                1. JMcFarland profile image93
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  For the record - it was not a "jab".  It was a point.  I used three examples.  I did not call you out by name.  I was not mocking you.  that is all.

                2. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Honestly, I see the hand of God in that one.

                3. Cat333 profile image82
                  Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Doesn't sound mundane at all! Neither does getting a needed dryer, especially when you have a family to do laundry for.

                  1. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    As I was reminded tonight when my autistic daughter wet her bed.

            2. Chris Neal profile image84
              Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              No. I went over this with Julie but I'll do it with you too.

              It's not an either/or proposition. It doesn't have to be "either God magically supplied it or other people were nice and supplied it." It's totally Biblical that God has His hand on everything, that He is in control. And it's also totally Biblical that He uses human agents to accomplish His goals. And it's ALSO totally Biblical that we should ask God for everything we need (not necessarily want, but definitely need.) So if I ask God for a dryer, and someone gives me the money and I go get one, it's completely Biblical that God would still be the ultimate cause of that. Even though I acknowledge and thank the people who gave me the money, I still also thank God.

              1. 0
                Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Don't you feel like you are talking away from humanity by giving thanks to something else for the kindness and generosity of a person?

                If as you say God's hand is in everything then why is he helping ISIS cleans Iraq of other religions including Christianity?

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No, I don't feel that way at all nor do I see why I should.

                  I'm going to say this, and I'm pretty sure it will be misunderstood, but it helps to explain my thinking.

                  In the OT, the Assyrians overran and enslaved the Israelites. The Bible makes it pretty clear the Israelites understood this as God using human agents to punish them for their sin. The Assyrians did not pray to YHWH, and the Israelites did. But after a long, long time, God used the enemies of Israel for His own purposes.

                  Does that mean I think ISIS is God's vengeance upon the Christians? I don't know. We don't live in OT Israel, and many things are different. But God does work in His own ways and I don't always understand them. That God is not performing some miraculous intervention does not mean He's not at work. Nor does it mean that 'Allah' is stronger than God.

                  1. 0
                    Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Allah, stronger than God? No.

                    Perhaps Allah is a closer description of God?

  13. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Great news! The US has sent air strikes over Kurdistan leaving them in much better shape... Many countries, including France are making food drops over the mountains that, they say, tens of thousands of ppl are hiding in now. God is doing great things thru the nations... keep praying. smile

    1. JMcFarland profile image93
      JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Is god flying the bomber jets or making the orders to send them?   How do you claim to know that your prayers are responsible for these actions?   What control method do you use to gather the statistics to conclude the probability of these strikes happening whether you prayed or not?

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Try to focus.

        1. JMcFarland profile image93
          JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you for reminding me that is best to pursue honest,  intellectual conversation with Chris and others.   I must have temporarily forgotten who I was asking genuine questions to.

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You don't believe in God.
            You don't believe in the power of prayer.
            You hate me... oh wait you could only hate someone you gave a crap about...

            I get it. Everybody gets it.

            In the meantime, I started this thread requesting prayer from Christians for the ppl of Mosul.
            I don't see the need for one more debate thread where you can once again establish that you don't believe in God.

            1. JMcFarland profile image93
              JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I am speaking quite civilly with several other people who are participating on this thread.   I'm sorry you don't like it,  or think any conversation I'm in its automatically a debate, but I'm allowed to comment anywhere I like,  just like you.   In fact,  most of what I've been doing is asking questions.   If it bothers you that much,  ignore me.   I'm not just going to go away because you don't like or agree with my posts,  sorry.

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I didn't ask you to go away. I am expressing my feelings as you did yours. If we continue to express our feelings one of us will end up banned... me of course, 'cause I don't report you.
                But again... off topic and old news.

                1. JMcFarland profile image93
                  JMcFarlandposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Okay,  Beth.

                  1. Sed-me profile image84
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you.

    2. Cat333 profile image82
      Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Wonderful!!

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        It is truly amazing. May God continue to weaken the strength of these murderers.

  14. Sed-me profile image84
    Sed-meposted 2 years ago

    Thank you SassySue and Emile for your support. I was smh as well. I wondered why no one commented on the Robin Williams threads "Why do you only care about Williams when there are so many other stars that are hurting?" I simply heard a story that begged for attention and shared it. Isis is a threat to *everyone and has been growing in power for 2 years. Christians are not the only ones in danger... their story was simply the first story of its magnitude I had heard at the time so I shared it. As we all know now, their attacks have spread to other religious minorities as well... as a matter of fact, they are basically killing off anything that stands in their way. Even my 11 year old daughter is praying that God will stop them. I am proud of her for this as it shows me that she is thinking of others. It is important to shine a light where men are trying to snuff it out. Not only so that those who are being terrorized will have hope, but so that the acts of the evil will be brought to light.

  15. bBerean profile image60
    bBereanposted 2 years ago

    Rad, I have reviewed your comments throughout this thread and considered compiling an entertaining medley.  Perhaps instead I could summarize your contentions so far.

    Prayer is a pathetic gesture, void of any merit, sans self appeasement, yet you charge those who wield this delusional resource inequitably, (in your view), to be unethical and/or hypocritical. Is this correct?

    1. 0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      No, that is not correct. Pray if it makes you feel better, but understand that it only makes one feel better. This entire mess in the middle east is unethical and asking others to only pray/care for those who are of the same faith is missing the point entirely. We would all agree that what ISIS and other radical religious groups are doing when they kill people based on religion is unethical, but is it then ethical to only pray/care for others like yourself?

      Prayer in itself isn't hypercritical, however watching a particular group divide people up based on religion and complaining that your particular group is being persecuted and then only praying for the safety of your particular denomination is hypercritical.

      1. bBerean profile image60
        bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        How is it hypocritical, unethical, or for that matter even possible, to misuse an imaginary resource?  Would you police wishing wells? wink

        1. 0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          ISIS is misusing it's imaginary source and hurting others in the process in the name of it's imaginary source.

          1. bBerean profile image60
            bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            So to make that association you would have to be saying your issue is with their prayers?  Have they confided these to you?  If you could regulate their prayers, would their evil and hate be abated?  Perhaps if we sent in our elite military for a covert operation, and simply stole their rugs and compasses?

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              The issue is that ISIS using it's imagination to behave unethically. They think they are right just as the rest of you think you are right. I'm pointing out unethical behaviour. I see this all the time, people behaving unethically in the name of their religion.

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                SassySue1963posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                How is requesting prayer for people in need acting unethically?

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  How do you get to that from the post you replied to?

          2. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Really? How so? ISIS is using guns and mortars. Yes, they pray, but then they go out and kill. Sed-me has asked to pray and pray only, not go out and use guns. Where's the parallel? Are you saying, as you so often seem to, that praying is stupid or are you going further and saying it's pointless unless backed by the bayonet?

            And seriously, how much of your 'inclusiveness' is really a true desire to include all mankind and how much of it is a reaction to Christianity, which you don't seem to care for very much?

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              ISIS is motivated by religion, specifically the Quran. They feel they are at war and the Quran is very specific on how to behave while at war.

              Simply put, prayer serves only to make one feel like they are helping. If we all stood back and prayed, they would very quickly take over the entire world and we would (if still alive) be praying to Allah.

              Or do you think God would somehow stop them without any human intervention?

              Sorry, I lump all religions together.

              1. Sed-me profile image84
                Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You lump all religions together until I request prayer for one in need.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  They are all in need.

              2. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                We have bad water that kills and we have good, life-giving water. If, having seen that the bad water kills, you then refuse all water, you no longer have the life-giving water and you die.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  A completely irrelevant comment. If the entire world decided to simply pray, ISIS would take over then entire planet.

                  1. Cat333 profile image82
                    Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    We are called not only to pray, but to act in any and all ways within our means!!

              3. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You can do that I suppose but it's wrong. You're frankly either going too far or not far enough. If you're really going to lump all religion together then you may as well say that all religions, including Buddhism, are militaristic at heart and it's only a matter of time before all religion pick up the gun. That would still be crap but at least it would be committing fully to the ideology. As it is, you only lump them together just enough to stir trouble, otherwise you do make distinctions.

                I forget if this is in the Quran or if it's a haditha, but Mohammed himself is supposed to have said that no man is a Muslim unless he's a Muslim in his heart. In other words, although they could compel us to make the five prayers daily, no one who doesn't truly believe will. And Christians will continue to pray to Jesus, not Allah.

                And no, prayer is not just a psychological crutch. Bad things do happen. That's Biblical. And it's also Biblical that bad things happen to Christians, sometimes because of their Christianity. We pray anyway. It's a communication with our Lord.

      2. Cat333 profile image82
        Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Sed-me has prayed for people of various groups, as have we all. It's not hypocritical to be most hurt or affected by the suffering of your family, including spiritual family. Our love should be so strong that our love for every group is great and only continues up in intensity. What if, for all you know, the people you're judging love EVERY group more than those not being judged? As a human, you just can't make a right judgment, so please stop judging.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Sorry, humans are capable of knowing right from wrong. We are fully capable of understanding ethics, some however refuse to try.

      3. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Based on what you actually said, I would say that bBerean is closer to the way you generally present yourself in posts than your own statement here is. Perhaps this post is the way you meant to come across, but it's not. What you may intend as a call for inclusiveness comes across, even here, as a sneer at Christians.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          yes, I get that, but I'm dealing with Christians here and so I have to speak to them.

          I'm aware I don't always articulate my thoughts as well as I should be able to. That's one of the reason I started here as it helps me develop my weaknesses in engaging conversations.

          In the first few pages of this forum I asked Beth many times why she's only praying for her fellow Christians while many more were in much worse shape. If she was Jewish or one of the many types of Muslims that ISIS was killing and she made the same statement I would have reacted in the same way. But even still we have Christians here defending caring more for fellow Christians than other human beings.

          1. Cat333 profile image82
            Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If you believe it unethical to care more for your family members, even though you care for all people, then you have no business caring more or doing more for your own kids than other people's kids. You should treat them all the same. Otherwise it's hypocrisy.

            I love people, I care deeply about people, I pray for all people. INFPs are found capable of a deeper love than most of the other 16 types. But my love for my family is the strongest and second only to my love for God. Our spiritual brothers and sisters from every tribe and nation are our true and eternal family, so we are to love them as family. That in no way means we are not to love others, any more than your strong love for your children means you don't care about other children.

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Family members? What a joke. You don't even know any of those people. You don't even know what kind of Christians they are.

              1. Chris Neal profile image84
                Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No, you're response is the joke. As if we really needed proof, there it is. In truth, it doesn't matter what kind of Christians they are. If they truly follow Christ, then they are brothers and sisters, and that is Biblical to the bone.

                The Coptics in Egypt follow some traditions that I cannot get behind, but I still consider them true Christians and pray for them.

                Again, if you really want to show compassion for the whole area, this is not the way to do it. And trying to push Christians into a corner has only gotten you into one here.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Nonsense, you are no more family to all Christians than all white people are family. It's simply nonsense and an excuse to discriminate.

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                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Have you thought this argument through? It doesn't appear so.

                  2. Chris Neal profile image84
                    Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Do you even hear yourself?

  16. Chris Neal profile image84
    Chris Nealposted 2 years ago

    It may also be more than symbolic that Mosul is the capital of the Nineveh province of Iraq.

    Yes, I am praying for the Christians there.

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What about the other non-Christian humans?

      1. Sed-me profile image84
        Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I am trying to keep my composure b/c I find this infuriating.
        Let's turn the tables, shall we? Why *can't* I pray for Christians? They are the ones reported by a secular news force to be in the greatest need... with the exception of the Yazidi ppl... but as soon as I heard about them, I prayed for them... they represent a great number of the ppl who were chased into the mountains. But what about the Muslim teens that Isis gunned down? Oh yes, I requested prayer for their situation too. What about those buried alive and the children being decapitated? I don't even know what religion, if any, they were. Can it be possible I requested prayer for them too? Yes! Yes, I did!

        What has got me so upset is the fact that in the midst of these atrocities and the abominable way that lives are being taken... YOU are sitting in the safety of your home, once again, posing questions to Christians with the sole purpose of tearing down the faith of believers. PEOPLE ARE DYING, RADMAN!  Do you understand? I am asking those who pray, to pray! If you do not want to be involved... and I say this with all due respect... Get out of the way! Say or do something positive or take it to a different thread. Murder is taking place while you sit and think of sharp tongued barbs for ppl you disdain. Do you understand what I am saying?

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Please, don't talk as if you have more compassion than I. You were told repeatedly that there were many groups being treated much worse than the Christian and yet you still insisted on asking for prayers just for them. And now you pretend to have more compassion?

          People are dying and there is nothing you or I can do about it. Nothing. Why is it happening? Religion. At the very least I'm looking at the cause.

          1. Sed-me profile image84
            Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I was told repeatedly that what? I didn't have a right to pray for a group of ppl I had heard about on the radio? I will not respond to that or I'll say something I regret.

            Who? Who was being treated worse? Name them... it was breaking news that day. At that point, the Christians being forced out of Mosul was THE story. There were not even sub plots at this time that listeners were being informed about.

            How dare you tell me who I can and cannot request prayer for.

            Maybe you think I can do nothing, but I believe in the power in prayer. If you do not, the mature thing to do would be to excuse yourself lest your bigotry show.  And don't short change yourself... you found something to do... we're all held hostage by it and it's sapping every last ounce of communication out of this thread. I will let you debate with the others. I'm done.

          2. Chris Neal profile image84
            Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Here's where your lumping together of religions comes up crap. They are not dying for 'religion.' If you were to pose that to either ISIS or their victims and get them to understand that you are not talking about religion singular (Islam, Christianity, whatever) but religion as an idea, an archetypal concept, they would laugh you out of the room. You are not displaying compassion. You may indeed have a genuine concern for ALL the different peoples being affected in the area, and so you should. But what you are doing here is hammering on something you don't like. You are not showing compassion for other people groups. You are showing contempt for religion as you understand it. Coming in here and stirring up trouble is not compassionate, it is the certainty that you know better than those stupid Christians and you will not rest until you've shown them.

            Congratulations, you're now my grandmother.

            Seriously, if you want to show compassion for all the other groups, start a forum for that. Go to sites where you can contribute to the relief efforts. Blog about how horrible it is and how we should band together to help everyone. Research the war and give educated lectures about true cause and effect. Or do something really compassionate and go build a house for a homeless person, or contribute to Medecin sans Frontiers in their battle with the ebola outbreak. But half of what you do on this page is just repeat that you think prayer is a waste of time. So we got it, you think it, now get over it.

      2. Chris Neal profile image84
        Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I restate my question, how much of this is a genuine desire for true inclusiveness, and how much of this is simply reacting to the Christianity you disdain?

  17. bBerean profile image60
    bBereanposted 2 years ago

    Rad, I know you said that no, my summation did not represent your views, but I have reviewed your comments in the thread again, and really think I nailed it.  I believe I could support everything with your words. 

    Perhaps if I break it down, you can show me exactly where you think I go wrong.  Please tell me which sentiment you feel you have not expressed in these forums, (even if not in these exact words, but with the same meanings):

    a) Prayer is pathetic.

    b) Prayer is just a gesture.

    c) Prayer is without merit.

    d) Prayer is really about self appeasement, (making one feel better about themselves).

    e) Prayer is delusional.

    Is it not your view that:

    1) Those considering prayer a resource, utilize it inequitably.

    2) Praying for one group and not another is unethical.

    3) Not praying for everyone at the same time is hypocritical.
     
    Please, by number or letter, explain the points where you feel your view is being misrepresented in my original summation.

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      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I don't believe I used any of those words, but your close.


      1. No, I didn't say all people who pray are unethical.
      2. A white and a black lady are being held captive, do you pray for the white women's safe return if you are white and for the black women's return if you are black? If you said no to that then you should say no to only praying for Christians.
      3. If you are claiming the higher moral ground and then only praying for the white women's return I'd say it would be hypocritical.

      1. bBerean profile image60
        bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't say you said all who pray are unethical.  I said you expressed praying for one group and not another is unethical.


        Ever support a charity?  By your logic, you are hypocritical if you don't support them all the same.  How is that different?

        I certainly hope I wouldn't find you had purchased Girl Scout cookies while leaving the Boy Scouts wanting in their popcorn drive, or that you've given money to cancer research while leaving the MS foundation unfunded. 

        Anything less than exactly proportional benevolence would be unethical and hypocritical, correct?



        How can you on one hand say there is no value to prayer, and on the other complain praying for one group and not another is unethical and hypocritical? 

        Don't they all receive nothing for the prayer's efforts either way? 

        Please explain what the inequity you complain of is, if prayer does nothing anyway.

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          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So you think it perfectly okay/ethical to only ask for help for the white women if you are white or the black women if you are black? Just answer the question.

          1. Cat333 profile image82
            Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Please see my last post to you. The true question is whether it's okay to pray or act more fervently for your SISTER who is held captive than SOMEONE ELSE'S SISTER who is held captive. Ethnicity / "race" is nothing but a temporal aspect of our bodies, cultures, etc. We're all part of the human race; we're not in truth "family" with people of our same ethnicity.

            But God has designed that we who have accepted our rights to become the children of God (offered to ALL, but accepted only by some) now become spiritual brothers and sisters who will spend eternity together.

            1. Jomine Jose profile image79
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              It's the spiritual brotherhood of ISIS that kill the spiritual Christian brothers and sisters. Without such nonsense of the "spiritual brotherhood" there is no rationale to kill.
              So if you don't pray (a wastage of time, by the way) which the spiritual brothers of ISIS also might be doing but instead use the time to coerce your government to act, probably that might help.
              By the same token are you responsible for the atrocities done by your spiritual brothers?
              Temporal, spiritual what difference does it make? Aren't all human beings irrespective of the religion and creed?

              1. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Those who thirst for blood will find a "rationale" for it; they need no "religious cause", which is only an excuse. Remove religion and you'll continue to find that humans kill.

                We are in the day of favor and grace, and in Christ we are called to love and peace. No true follower of Christ will thirst for blood.

                1. Jomine Jose profile image79
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Of course they will find a reason but one reason less is one reason less. The present one is between Iraqies,, there is no other reason other than religion.


                  Is it the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy? Christianity since its inception has shown no grace. It was made of lies and violence (true humanitarian actions not withstanding,  but that is true of all religions). Before the advent of Islam Christianity was the most violent religion and in body count Christianity still tops, I think.

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                    Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    You think? Interesting that you would make such a statement. Backed up with no more evidence than you think. How far back in history are we going? What percentage of the world's cultures are you including in your 'thought' process? What religions are you including in your 'thought' process?

                    Seriously. if you do think, you must take into account what you flippantly label religious violence encompasses a wide variety of causes and religion is, at best, a contributing factor; not the only factor and not necessarily the primary factor.

                    Religion exacerbates existing problems. By the adherent believing that God, Allah, whatever approves of their conclusions and supports their actions. It is an effective rallying cry for the masses, but rarely is it what compels a government, or those in power, to war. The powers that be, the ones who organize and push the conflict, expect more out of the outcome than a high five from a deity.

                  2. Cat333 profile image82
                    Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Human nature and demonic influences are at the core of violence. Remove "religion" - thereby removing all the "bad water" that poisons the people AND the life-giving water - and you will still have violence at the hands of the bloodthirsty. What you won't have is that which gives eternal life. Of course, that will never happen because the faithful will stand firm to the end, no matter the efforts to destroy and eliminate faith and "religion". 

                    Those who follow Jesus Christ in Spirit and in truth will live in love and peace so far as it depends on them (though they may have to protect people). You may label it whatever fallacy you so desire, it changes nothing about the truth.

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Sister, I said nothing of sisters. Stop pretending these people are your family. It's as silly as saying all white women are your sisters.

              1. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It is God who has invited us all into his family, given us the rights to become his children, and made those of us in Jesus Christ to be brothers and sisters. Skin color and all other physical and cultural attributes are eternally insignificant. In Jesus Christ there are no differences; we are all one.

          2. bBerean profile image60
            bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Your the one evading, while at the same time trying to inject racism.  Nice.

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              Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Didn't answer the question. I'm not bringing in something that is different than what we are talking about, I'm showing you that it's unethical to only care for people of your own religion just as it's unethical to only care for people of your own skin colour.

              1. bBerean profile image60
                bBereanposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No, as evidenced by the other responses trying a myriad of ways to convey a simple concept that continues to elude you, or that you simply refuse to acknowledge for what ever reason, you either can't or won't get it.  In consideration of that, Sed-Me is right.  It is pointless to continue as though you are going to.  There is nothing to add regarding your protests that hasn't been made abundantly clear in previous posts, for any objective observer. 

                One unethical thing that has been exposed in this thread however, is that someone would actually try and put a racist spin on somebody else praying for the well being of Christians, (note we didn't specify what color Christians, mind you), that are suffering persecution.  The intent of the thread was to share concerns and request prayers.  You've not contributed one wit to the intent of the OP, only served as a distraction.  Let's get back to the purpose of the OP, with prayers going out for those suffering at the hands of ISIS.

                1. Chris Neal profile image84
                  Chris Nealposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Amen!

                  1. Cat333 profile image82
                    Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Like-minded on this, brother!

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So it's not okay to discriminate against race, but okay to discriminate against religion?

                3. Cat333 profile image82
                  Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Amen!

                4. savvydating profile image87
                  savvydatingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Well stated, bBerean.

              2. Cat333 profile image82
                Cat333posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                It's not a matter of "only caring" for any particular group; we care about ALL people! It's a matter of having a great spiritual intimacy and connection with those in the family of believers, just the way you have an intimacy and connection with those in your earthly family.

            2. Jomine Jose profile image79
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Why, religion'ism' is better than racism?

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                Emile Rposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Fighting over ideas and fighting based on skin tone are not the same.

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                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Is one worse than the other?

                2. Jomine Jose profile image79
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, killing in the name of religion is glorious while killing in the name of racism is not, understood.

                  1. Sed-me profile image84
                    Sed-meposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Don't play petty games. Ppl are suffering right now. If you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Pray or get out of the way... it's my new motto for this thread. lol