jump to last post 1-2 of 2 discussions (5 posts)

Rick Perry is responsible for the deaths of ten innocent people.

  1. Josak profile image60
    Josakposted 2 years ago

    Rick Perry has overseen almost 250 executions during his term, according to non partisan study a conservative estimate put's an average 4.1% of death row inmates would be exonerated if not executed (this actually means that more are innocent but that number would be exonerated). Thus statistically Rick Perry is responsible for the death of ten innocent people.

    Food for thought.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a … s-innocent

    1. Quilligrapher profile image90
      Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Hello, Jasak. I have not seen you around much lately. I hope everything is going well in your life.

      The libelous title of this thread captured my attention because it is so terribly wrong. The conclusions from this study DO NOT support your attack on the Governor of Texas: “Rick Perry is responsible for the deaths of ten innocent people.”

      If you are bent on being this illogical, you should include several hundred judges and juries plus an equal number of arresting officers etc. etc., none of whom write the criminal statues.

      The only solid claim made in this study is that our criminal system sometimes convicts an innocent person and, furthermore, it sometimes executes them too! However, this is really something we already knew from other studies.

      For starters, no trial histories were studied, no jury verdicts analyzed, and no case facts considered. This study begins with statistical assumptions and reaches statistical, but not factual, conclusions. There is nothing in this study that can be applied to any one governor or any one state in the country.

      The abstract clearly establishes at the very beginning that this study is a departure from the real world, a mathematical journey starting with known exonerations of convicts on death row and ending with mostly statistical assumptions.

      “ The rate of erroneous conviction of innocent criminal defendants is often described as not merely unknown but unknowable.” The abstract goes on to emphasize:There is no systematic method to determine the accuracy of a criminal conviction; As a result, very few false convictions are ever discovered, and those that are discovered are not representative of the group as a whole.

      The authors of the study, Samual R. Gross, et al, use only exonerations in an effort to estimate the overall rate of false convictions among those on death row. These exonerations, they admit, are known to be highly concentrated in a “tiny minority of cases” involving the death sentence. From this rather unreliable starting point, they then employ a statistical device called “survival analysis” to reach a statistical conclusion. They estimate 4.1% of all prisoners sentenced to death might ultimately be exonerated if they were left on death row forever. {1}

      It is intellectually dishonest to take this hypothetical conclusion and to apply it to any one governor in any one state with capital punishment. As The Guardian points out, “The study…does not solve…how many innocent people have actually been put to death in modern times. That remains a haunting unknown.”

      “The single largest group of innocent death row inmates are neither exonerated and released nor executed, the study suggests. Rather, they are left in limbo, somewhere in between those two extremes of fortune,” The Guardian observes. {2}

      The largest numbers of innocent death row inmates are NOT executed, NOR are they exonerated and released. They are likely serving life sentences and they will probably die in prison. Now, we can chew for a while on that valid reality.
      {1} http://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230
      {2} http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a … s-innocent

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Indeed it's impossible to have a completely accurate scaling for this question thus we use an abstract formula.

        One can certainly argue that many people share the responsibility for the execution of innocents (indeed the entire population of states that voted to keep capital punishment for example) but I firmly believe there should be a "buck stops here" attitude to the highest official in an execution which would be the governor who has the power to pardon and thus the RESPONSIBILITY of oversight therefore I don't think it's at all unreasonable to hold that person responsible.

        He fact that most people on death row die rather than are executed does not in the slightest change the validity of my statement, it is indeed an interesting point to consider, but an irrelevant one in this case.

        As such I don't feel your comment actually detracts from the point at all, which is surprising since your comments are usually insightful.

        1. Quilligrapher profile image90
          Quilligrapherposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Hi again, Josak. I hope you are well this evening.

          Actually, my comments may be more insightful than you realize. The inability to see their merits may simply be the fault of your perspective. I am talking about articulating the truth and accuracy of expression.

          Regardless of you intentions, it is dishonest to claim “Rick Perry is responsible for the deaths of ten innocent people” unless you have hard evidence, something more substantial than a statistical possibility. “Survival analysis” is NOT proof that your claim is factually correct. Your statement is blatantly and literally false. You have sacrificed your ultimate purpose by using sensationalized rhetoric.

          The 4.1% conclusion you lifted from your referenced study makes an interesting discussion point but it is intellectually useless in an attack on a single governor. All of the statistically “innocent” convicts may, in reality, be on death row in other states. It is impossible to determine the number of innocent people actually executed in Texas. It is also impossible to know how many to assign as Gov. Perry’s responsibility. As stated in the study’s abstract, “The rate of erroneous conviction of innocent criminal defendants is often described as not merely unknown but unknowable.”

          Good to see you around, Josak. Do take good care of yourself.

  2. maxoxam41 profile image80
    maxoxam41posted 2 years ago

    One might say what are ten in comparison with millions of Iraqis? Since when life counts?