Michael Moore tweeted recently that he thinks snipers are cowards. Here's a couple of links to some valid news sources that'll explain it far better than I could:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/1 … 00658.html
Assuming you watched the video and read the article, I have to ask...do you agree with Michael Moore's sentiments? Or do you think he's being an idiot? Please discuss.
Young Turks is a great show.
I somewhat agree with Michael Moore except I think guns are insane in the first
place.Can't imagine running
out of ideas to kill anyone
If the U.S killed 4% of
Canadain over our water
(Plus a 500'000 Children like
They did in Iraq) and they came to my home to kill my family.
They better bring a lot of garbage bags because these murderers will be missing alot of limbs.
If you could imagine how a martial artist/inventor could create medieval damage on them.
Am I the one insane for speaking out about the onesideness throughout these hubpages.
Not speaking tells me more about the deeper issues anyway.
Before anyone else commented, I was going to say jokingly that maybe the reason not too many people want to comment in this forum is probably because they don't want to risk talking to me; considering almost every forum I open nowadays usually only generates like maybe four or five replies at most. I guess word is spreading about me being something of a rebel badass of hubpages that nobody wants to talk to me openly in forums. j/k
All kidding aside though, I think what's interesting about Michael Moore's comments is the timing of it to be honest. I know according to the huffington article, he seemed a bit shocked to see how so many people were taking his tweets about snipers in general as something of a reflection on the film, "American Sniper", but let's be honest. He wasn't really shocked. We both know that he knew exactly what he was doing.
He can play dumb all he wants, but that's just the truth. Before I say what my take is on this subject, I do think it's important to note that regardless of how you might feel about Michael Moore personally, the reality is he's probably one of the smartest guys in Hollywood today. The reason why I say that is simple. Whether you agree with what he says or not, the fact of the matter is he knows exactly what to say to make people talk about the issues he brings up; which is exactly what he wants.
As Christian Bale once said in "Batman Begins", a man can be ignored or forgotten by lots of people, and let's be honest. Michael Moore is NOT the only person to say something controversial to piss people off. Hell, you have countless of internet trolls that say controversial crap everyday to piss others off, yet they get forgotten about all the time. But for Michael Moore? He says something controversial, then EVERYBODY talks about it.
Therefore, I doubt in all honesty that he was really that shocked to see people confusing that generalized tweet with his thoughts on "American Sniper." He can say that all he wants, but I doubt he's really that oblivious. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he knew by tweeting that comment around the exact same time "American Sniper" got released world wide, with an Oscar nomination being announced, that his thoughts would get a lot of headlines to fuel his own political agenda; whether you believe it's for good or bad.
Having said all that, I do think it's probably best that we differentiate a few things between Chris Kyle and assassins in general. It seems like Moore kind of views assassins and snipers as being one and the same, and I can definitely see why he feels that way. But for me personally, I always thought snipers were mainly people that worked in the military in general, while shooting people in the distance. While assassins are really nothing more than common hit men for a price that'll snipe anyone for cash, or for their personal agenda. Maybe it's just me, but that's how I always saw it. however, it seems Michael Moore sees assassins and snipers as being one and the same.
From an objective point of view, I can where Moore is coming from. Personally, I'm surprised more people didn't go out to see "Selma" on MLK weekend considering it was a biopic about Martin Luther King Jr. himself (great movie by the way. Go see "Selma"), so you'd figure more people would go out to see it on MLK day to honor him. Don't get me wrong, i still expected "American Sniper" to be number one, but I just felt "Selma" would at least hold on to be number 2 over the weekend.
I can't really comment on "American Sniper" because I haven't seen it yet. However, I will say this much. For whatever it's worth, I don't believe Chris Kyle was ever a coward, nor do I believe he was a bad person. If anything, I'm sure he was an honorable man throughout most of his life, but it's sad that his experiences of being forced to kill people in war changed him for the worse. It's saddening to see that happen to anyone.
However, I do agree with you that we had no business invading Iraq to begin with. Sadam Hussein was a giant a**hole to say the least, but he kept that country in line. The U.S.A. would've probably been smarter to work out an alliance with him, but now we're basically stuck there. If we pull out our troops from that area now, god knows what's going to happen to that country. I can only imagine the whole so called democratic republic we're forcing upon them will probably fall to pieces the instant we pull out.
GW Bush said, we will get the oil to pay for the War.
are there to
oil. It's the old
we got to
burn the village to
village, when are these big bad boys with toys coming to grow up.
U.S. are not labeled the
Now US has now dragged Canada into this Hell on Earth mess. In the name Greedy profits who think they are above GOD
and Gobal Public Opinion (the other super
power). Not religious yet the concept of Jesus was he cared for the poor and healed the sick. Not to kill for Jesus
KILL FOR JESUS!!! KILL FOR JESUS, Now keep repenting that for other decade, this should kill all those subhuman demons.
Michael is being sort of dumb on this one. Snipers have always been a part of modern warfare. Within the confines of the Geneva Convention, the job of the opposing military force is to subdue the enemy, no holds barred.
Michael more seems to not have carefully thought out his words. Words that can mean so much by someone that actually seems to know better,due to his follow up comment the next day when Moore said,
"But if you're on the roof of your home defending it from invaders who've come 7K miles, you are not a sniper, u are brave, u are a neighbor."
So unless I am missing something, it seems he doesn't really think snipers are cowards, or at least it depends.
My own particular answer is that it depends. It depends on the mission and the man. (Or woman I suppose!) There is a lot of evil in the world, acted out through human beings. In Moore's follow up comment, he addresses such a potential act of evil onto innocents. In which case that sniper is no coward, but brave and a neighbor. So he seems to just be saying stuff, as we so often see people do these days. Then watches and maybe benefits from the fall out, especially considering the timing.
One could ask, considering what movie was opening,and whose holiday was about to be celebrated, what kind of person tries to take a dig at one thing while claiming (hiding behind) the innocence of another thing? (Like MLK's death and that of his uncle in war, by two bad snipers.) Very clever, but then not at all if that is what he did, ultimately. He undoes his first comment, with his second one, the way I see it.
Since Obama has authorized air strikes in the American-led intervention in Iraq and in context of the opening of the movie American sniper, it appears that American snipers are being characterized as cowards, as well as, America military personnel are being characterized as invaders from 7k miles, and the combatant/snipers that the American military encounter, are brave. Even though it might be referencing past conflicts, the US is currently in conflict. I am sure ISIS appreciated Michael Moores "comforting" tweets.
Ahh,.. to your point about American personnel being characterized as invaders from 7k miles, of course it could be a further poke to them by Moore. Or, I can also read it from a different angle of being severe sarcasm, saying it not as coming from Moore, but from another American's point of view that disagrees with him.
Saying what he wants to say that can cause damage, but leave possible "outs" for himself depending on responses. All while using freedoms afforded by those that sacrificed time, hard work, blood, sweat and tears, if not sacrificing it all.
Clint made a good war movie leaving us viewers with things to think about and contemplate. I agree that we are left contemplating it all…words are hard to form, still.
The movie explains that Chris was raised to be a sheepdog and taught to protect the sheep from the wolves. This concept had been implanted into his psyche as a young child and as an adult he believed in what he was doing all four tours.
Finally, he got over the compulsion and went home to his wife and children;
A higher ideal took hold of him….
What happens when your leader is very mean wolf.
I'll settle to be a lone wolf who gets throwen a peace of
meat along the way.
Never want to trade my
freedom in exchange to be
chained up like a sheepdog (Sheepl ) or a mad bulldog.
be kept by mean master
Michael Moore is the biggest fantasizing ,sensationalizing idiot to ever come out of Hollywood ! His bitter hatred of all things American is bordering out so far on the edge of free speech that it wouldn't even be bothered if he were hung for his tirades of stupidity !
If they hung Presidents for lying, their would not be any.As the best false statements made, are the ones most likely to be elected.
What matters, if you have to
follow a leader (Not better
than yourself) make sure
you sense it's coming from the heart with good intentions.
I think you may be underestimating Moore. Not only is he an idiot, he is a hippo-critical gas bag surrounded by his own personal armed security.
Moore is not againist guns, just the control.
So call me an idiot for thinking guns are insane
only designed kill animal,
people, and hold people
freedoms and their
point at an end of a gun barrel.
I've had lots of fame and
money in my life,
worldwide. Never had to
have gun or hire anyone,
maybe if i had as many
people threating my life
like with MM or Jim
Carrey. Then just maybe I would hire someone with
There is nothing heroic about killing for an imperialist government.In fact, there is nothing glorious or heroic about killing ... period. The question of whether or not snipers are cowards pales in comparison to the greater question: Since the historical record reveals that war and violence only begets more war and violence, why would a so-called "civilized" society continue to sanction and glorify such ridiculous,barbaric, and destructive behavior? Of course, the answer is very clear: The average American, as well as the average human being living here at the dawn of the 21st century is nothing but a barbarian; pretending morality, pretending democracy, pretending superiority, pretending civilization, and pretending Jesus. It is no wonder that movies which glorify violence are popular with the majority of simians. People like Michael Moore are remarkable. People who criticize people like Michael Moore with meaningless vitriol are simply predictable! Osiyo!
And rants like these ? Come from within the cradle of freedom where the immaturity of like minded self coddling souls are accustomed to someone else living the nightmares in the reality that YOUR very freedom to express like this :...... Is paid for by the lives of someone else's very personal cost !
I am ashamed to actually think that there can be such abuse in the dis- appreciation of the sacrifices required for YOUR freedoms . And I know all your defenses " These wars are not fought for MY freedom !" .....right . Famous last words of a coward , what is that old saying by the downtrodden in
WWII , "No one spoke up..........
.I did not speak up .........
..............and when they came for me !" ?
Poor and working class young people are not dying for freedom. They are dying for the further enrichment of the ruling elite, and to help secure "Big Brother's" stranglehold upon the populace. America did not give me freedom. I was born free. No man has the right to give or take away what God has freely granted to us all. The goal of all governments is to bend the will of the masses to the will of the powerful and greedy few. The most cowardly act of all is to submit to the will of tyranny. The second most cowardly act is to denigrate those with the strength and integrity to speak an unpopular truth.
God cannot grant freedom. Freedom is bought, and paid for, with the blood and sweat of people.
What brutes have fancied themselves to be greater than that which hath created them: an intelligence that far exceeds even our own feeble imaginations? Could it be the American pawn who stands guard against an enemy from without , when in truth he has already been conquered by the pride, the greed, and the arrogance that have consumed him from within? It will be a fine day when Don Quixote is finally laid to rest, or at least being treated with the proper medication, which might help to mitigate is fantasies of duty, honor, self-righteousness,supremacy, and impending doom.
As "that which hath created them" is naught but imagination and dream, it isn't hard to be greater.
But what has that to do with freedom "granted" by those that have died for it?
Couldcall it bad imagination and nightmares.
You are taken with the fiction that Americans are "free". This is easily proven to be false. Since the poor and the working class in America have never been truly free, but merely slaves to a ruling elite, it is painfully obvious that anyone who has died for "freedom" since the turn of the 20th century has died in vain. It is a sobering truth that many who have gotten used to bending over have become accustomed to the feeling. It follows that patriotism is simply a form of masochism.
The government of the people, by the people, for the people are all still sovereign and free.
Here is the proof for all to see.
As long as there are at least two people on the earth at the same time, neither one is truly "free". In our universe, then, "freedom" is a relative term, not an absolute one.
While you wish to attribute a freely entered into contract as some kind of slavery, it is not. We are all "free" to work or starve whether that work is benefiting an employer, picking berries or killing animals. Compared to much of the world, the US citizen is indeed "free".
If you hunt or fish you will need a license and permits. That will require money and a McJob selling fish sandwich-like material. When you get a check and after living expenses and paying taxes, you can then get a license and permits to catch a fish. Not a very efficient way to fish, but it makes for an efficient consumer-like citizen.
In keeping with the thread, snipers are basically on their own, by themselves, with maybe a spotter in the middle of a war zone.
A good relationship in love makes freedom expand more than contract. Sure, you must anwer to them all the time, yet a good balance.
And so the battle cry of the pacifist elite , Here Here ! ..... yea right . The first thing that's wrong with these rants is that........ What about being attacked from without ? Is then war and so the warriors still all that of the evil boogy man image that you and those like you ,can muster ? Imagine if you even can , you , your children cowering in the basement shadows as the enemy ransacks in the main house above you , is the patriot who will come to the rescue, or who defends us in vigilance then , still evil ? I doubt it !
I think Michael Moore is wrong on this one. It is just one tactic used in warfare. One could question its morality, but one could question the morality of every aspect of war.
To any service member who might read this forum, with various points of view openly expressed with no fear of retribution, thank you. A forum like this one only exists because of your sacrifices.
It seems that many Americans believe that without all of the killing that has taken place since the beginning of the United States imperialist aggression into the Middle East through open warfare, and clandestinely through millions of dollars of military aid to the Zionist government of Israel, the United States would have long ago been overrun by crazed Muslim's! I understand that many Americans also believe in Dr Suess and the Easter Bunny.The conflict in the Middle East is not about preserving American freedom, but about creating a "New World Order", in order to completely subjugate and enslave the entire planet.
A brave man stands against tyranny, even if he must stand alone. Edward Snowden stood up to a giant,and his bravery and humanity have already elevated him to legendary status. He did not hide behind a tree and commit cowardly mercenary acts against men ,women, and children. In the light of day he told the truth. Ironically, as a consequence he must now hide from the "freedom loving Americans" in order to preserve his own freedom; much like the Indigenous were forced to fight for hundreds of years in an effort to maintain their freedom, and protect themselves from the so-called "Sons of Liberty". Osiyo
Wow! I can't believe the number of people that want to down play the accomplishments of Clint Eastwood. This movie has brought out passion on both sides of the isle. I for one am glad that a movie a real job, that exist in the military was brought out for all to see. This type of tactic was used in both major world wars and vietnam. Well done "Clint". I support you.
Nobody here was downplaying the accomplishments of Clint Eastwood himself. We are merely discussing a few random comments made by Michael Moore about snipers in general, and how it relates to "American Sniper" and snipers in general. Where you fall on that argument is completely up to you, but nobody here was downplaying anything that Clint has done.
After seeing the film last weekend, I can see why people love it so much, but it's a bit overrated if you ask me. Nothing against the military, or government, as my opinions on the film DO NOT reflect my opinions on the military or government in general, as that goes without saying. However, it's nowhere near as good as the hype surrounding it. Definitely better than his last film, "Jersey Boys", but I wouldn't say it's among his best. But hey, all films are subjective anyway, so what do I know?
It's as simple as this , If you sight down the rifle and chose to kill a man with a rocket propelled grenade under his cloak you have saved countless others lives and are also sure that he is the enemy ! Where is the fault there ?
If anyone who despises a sniper were staring into the eye's of the enemy , you're last !prayer would be for a sniper in the background ? Michael Moore would as well ! You who cannot justify the military or police sniper cannot in reality appreciate the peace time life that you adore for you and your children
In all truth Michael Moore is the coward !.
Hollywood HAS to up--play all of it's movies these days , and why ? Because the quality of entertainment coming out of the theaters these days is the equivalent of elephant dung ! There have been FEW good quality movies in several years to come from the brightest minds of entertainment ! I would by far rather watch older movies now days .
There are simply no iconic actors or actress' in todays market as well ! The exploitation of female sexuality is the best Hollywood has to offer these days ! I am no prude by any means , but if all there is that sells is sex or violence . I'll stay home and watch re-runs .
Well as i mentioned earlier, all movies are kind of subjective. However, that doesn't mean there aren't still some quality films out there. Granted, most of the big name blockbusters these days are becoming nothing more than incoherent knock offs and cheap cash grabs, but there's still a few that are good quality.
"the Hunger Games:" franchise was very good overall. Granted, the last one had too much exposition, as the film had excessive need to explain everything out for the audience, but the first two were good.
The marvel movies have been great if your into mainstream superhero films like the avengers and whatnot. However, I think the best movies coming out of hollywood are actually some of the smaller indie films like "Boyhood", "Birdman" and etc, as those actually show a lot of creativity. in fact, I'm actually rooting for Michael Keaton to win Best actor at the oscars this year because I grew up on a lot of his films. However, I doubt he's going to win it though, as I have a feeling Eddie Redmayne is going to get it for his performance in the steve hawking biopic.
Those are movies? Then how would you call "Capital" by Gavras, "Gray state" by Crowley...
Never seen any of the films you mentioned, so I can't comment on them. I did look them up on imdb though as soon as i got home today, and could only find capital. I'm assuming your talking about this movie right?
In Michaels next action packed adventure documentary , I understand that he will have someone portray himself as he endeavors to persevere while he's hiding , cowering in his own dark cornered basement while heavily armed , red uniformed storm troopers with cardboard hats march around his neighborhood rounding up extremely overweight movie producers , sending them away to razor wired concentration compounds with golden arches , where his kind will be force fed diet ground turkey burgers , that's before being force marched to boot camp style health clubs where snipers will shoot French fries out of potato cannons at him while he stands naked in the fast food playground !
Maybe then he will appreciate American snipers !
It seems to me that you are defining a patriot as somebody who approves of snipers and conversely one who doesn't approve of snipers as unpatriotic!
John , I actually am in this case ! I truly believe that MM is simply a hypocrite , As is most of Hollywood for that matter . I have watched for decades as Hollywood makes millions and millions of dollars from the exploitation of the very thing they profess to hate the most , war ! I don't even know a soldier or former soldier that doesn't believe this !
I think to confuse hypocrisy with lack of patriotism is not right. Remember patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel
I've had no indication that Hollywood actually hates war, as you say, they make a lot of money out of it. Some involved in Hollywood may hate war but the impression I get is that by and large, they love it.
However you define a sniper, he may be the bravest man in the troop and he faces almost certain death if caught by his enemy, he is performing acts of terrorism and acting in a cowardly way. You may argue that he is justified but that changes nothing.
Indeed snipers are cowards. They only are killing machines. How can someone that invades a country and kills the autochthones still be a human being? How could director Eastwood glorify animals? What kind of society are we? It is disgusting that his movie American sniper rates number one whereas director Crowley's Grey State will fall into oblivion because our government decided that he should die for opening his mouth...
From what I've read about Chris Kyle, he did go temporarily insane from his service in Iraq. In fact, he actually suffered from PTSD for awhile, when he finished his service in Iraq. It's not like he enjoyed killing those people to the point that he was still able to laugh it up with his buddies while drinking a cold beer, and that killing people had no effect on him psychologically. The truth is it did.
Without giving away too much because I really want to reserve my thoughts for my review of it, I will say this much. The film does talk about Chris Kyle suffering from PTSD around the end, but Eastwood chooses to skip over that because that wasn't "American Snipers" intention. It's sole intention was mainly to act as Clint Eastwood's way of honoring him and the people who serve in the military. Nothing wrong with that per say, but it does leave a lot to be desired because it almost feels like you never really understand what he went through after he got back from Iraq. I mean it briefly brings up how he had PTSD, but it never goes into full detail on how that affected his life outside of one brief two minute scene, and it seems to rush past him getting over it to where it feels sort of rushed around the end.
In fact, I agree with most film critics that the movie might've been better had Eastwood fleshed out how Kyle got over his PTSD rather than rushing through it like he did.
As far as him being a coward is concerned, I don't think he's a coward. I do think he was put into a situation he never should've been in to begin with. It's not his fault that he was deployed there, as it's really the politicians that sent our troops there that we should be questioning.
It's funny in a way , I haven't even seen this movie and yet I can say that snipers are a completely necessary part of war "Al's fair in love and war " , Yet what dumbfounds me the most and yet paints a perfect picture of un- appreciative culture like Moore's , AND THAT is how naïve those who will one day need a defensive military around their doorstep , truly are !
So I have determined that cowards are simply cowards , they will always be "anti- war " ! At least they will be UNTILL they are engulfed in the midst of a war . THAT , will be the 'Ah Hah" moment for them.. They will then cry out "Let lose the dogs of war " . MM , will then happily even pay out of his own pocket for his own personal sniper and a big mack , all his own .!
Well to be fair, a person that's anti violence or anti war isn't necessarily a coward though. It just means they have a different way of getting things done. Take Martin Luther King Jr. for example. He had a non violent approach to campaigning for civil rights. Would you call him a coward? Or would anyone? No. that would be absurd.
Hell, would you call Jesus a coward? I think he was anti violence too, so would you call him a coward? The point is I'm just saying being anti war doesn't make you a coward necessarily, but I wouldn't call any of our soldiers cowards either.
To be honest, I wish we did live in a world where the military wasn't necessary, but sadly it's a necessary evil in society. We need the military to protect ourselves from invaders and those that would threaten our independence; anyone that says we don't need it are just kidding themselves.
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you that MM is a bit of a hypocrite at times, and if you honestly research into some of the things he says in his own documentaries, you can find quite a few fallacies if you look hard enough.
However, he does make us start asking the right questions though that maybe we should be asking. Granted, I can see why you don't like him, and why you would want him to be deported, but that won't solve anything. If anything, you'll just make it worse. It'll set a bad precedent in the future that the next time someone says something that the government doesn't agree with, then they'll simply ship them off to somewhere else. And if that happens, then what's the point in the bill of rights? It'll just be a useless piece of paper by that point.
Besides, Michael Moore is really just another man like you and I, as he only has as much power and influence that you allow him to be, so why not just ignore him? You do realize that by merely talking about him your doing exactly what he wants right? That's the genius of MM. He doesn't give a damn if you agree with him or not. He just wants people to talk about the agendas that he wants us to talk about, so by giving him that power to where it upsets you every time he says something controversial, then your giving into what he wants.
If your againist or anti of something , your part of the problem. Or your just not for something.
When someone is calling
you out on something that is doing more harm than good. It dose not make that person a coward or a bully.
When a group of
people are doing most of the phyical harm, are they not more so bullies and
Everything has gotten so as_backward to the point of where very few people really care.
Your reasoning is probably the best definition of what's wrong with many of our societies today , Your response and synopsis is by definition apathetic ! You , are right where so many ant- anything- believers are . While so many of you are able to sit back and enjoy , reap and criticize the very protectors of your idyllic lifestyles as you please and then offer up an opinion that justifies your apathy ! Hell, why even bother with an opinion , one way or the other ?
Why not just disappear into the upper layers of your Camelot like lifestyle ? Why bother with an opinion at all about those who built your kingdom , who defend it , who continue to be ever vigilant ? As THAT is why there are even peacetime armies to begin with !
Everyone is entiled to their opinion, and collective worldwide is true
this other new
world order aims has been mainly
and freedom, I
people's aim in
life. If you want
and military in the bussiness of
death, good luck
My kingdom is
within first and
inventions, new industries and
new ways of
thinking given to
millions of people
Made millions of people happier
What's wrong with that ? , Nothing I guess ....... . Except that while you live and attempt to recreate your little Camelot commune , you do so in the cradle of a freedom fully earned and appreciated by someone else . The soldiers of the free world. Nothing personal to you but.......
It all so reminds me of the dope smoking teachers in my high school, the "Problems of Democracy" classes , Condemning our country and troops in Viet - Nam , all the while molding the minds of sixteen, seventeen year old kids .As if simply being ant- everything a nation doe's is the responsible thing to do !
To hate the soldier as if he is the reason for the war itself , is naïve .! To say the least .
On cell, this is in three parts.
I rather share with love ones and capitalism than being in bed with corporationalism.
Corperationism shares a social system with the
Government who intervenes
aggressively into economy,
smaller businesses and
most wildlife and trees, plus
tries to destorys or stop the
most important plant on
earth, the cannibis plant.
Governments give us the delustion of freedom. Both give us privileges we have very little rights.
Both are involed our privilege of licences, exclustive tax breaks, cartelization. All involved
the initation of physical
restrict trades. Disallow
competitors to gain or
retain market share.
More to come folks.
by Susie Lehto2 weeks ago
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He says "we've" allowed a few rich people to take all the money and keep it. And "we" need to get it back from them.http://www.theblaze.com/stories/really- … from-them/Anti-capitalism in...
by Stacie L5 days ago
Michael Moore made a secret movie about Donald Trump, and now he's premiering it http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnb7Kz
by emdi7 years ago
Michael Moore says, capitalism has proved its failed. According to him, Wall Street took our money and made bets with it.What is your view on this topic.- A little cat (Emdi)
by ahorseback3 years ago
Come to Boston Michael , see if you can't defend these acts of terror , or maybe even blame them on George Bush , perhaps its all just a government conspiracy ? I can't wait to read the conspiracy theories...
by ahorseback3 months ago
Well , That must just burn the a$$ of a few liberal dream-catchers ! I mean , really ? I'm sure a few more limousine liberals will be jumping ship on...
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