You gotta move.
The latest outrage?
There is a bill in the Texas state legislature that would make it illegal for private citizens to record police within 25 feet. Only representatives of TV, radio or print media would be allowed to approach more closely and of course they would have to possess credentials proving the same.
So what is the explanation for this draconian law? They, the REPUBLICANS, are saying that private citizens should not be in the way of officers on the job. Oh really? They make the exception for the mass media, but of course they are not going to be around to record on the spot activity of the officer during a confrontation.
Funny how this all comes up in the midst of these shootings and recordings by private citizens that may well have been the only evidence that proved wrongdoing by the cops. So, I guess if I am stopped on the road for some infraction, I am not allowed to record the encounter? We live in world with cameras everywhere, and Texas is a state where guns are more common than hamburgers and they all fight for the right to carry everywhere. But now they have a problem with my using my camera?
As a black male, driving while black (DWI) is a concern of mine. Being a victim of investigative stops having nothing to do with violating traffic laws, blacks experience these more often. I insist that law enforcement have probable cause for the stop and that I be allowed to record the encounter for my own protection.
While the deplorable, disgusting and hypocritcal political right blames the "Marxist Obams" for tyranny and the coming apocalypse, it seem that the source of tyranny is coming from another direction. Texas being the worse of the loathsome right is taking the lead, is it not any surprise.
Who is protecting the law enforcement agencies right to be allowed to operate without their being held accountable for their behavior and actions. I don't give anyone a carte blanche, because I certainly dont get one.
I want a courageous one from the right to tell me why I should go along with this?
On the one hand, keeping the mob at least 25' away is quite reasonable. On the other, not being able to record your own arrest most certainly is NOT.
Is the solution to begin recording when the cop approaches, then back away while explaining you are not able to be any closer? After all, YOU are not approaching the cop, the cop is bringing himself to YOU. Not your fault.
I suspect this law is going to see some changes fairly soon.
Wilderness, thanks for your imput. The problem is that I would understand the need to keep civilians a reasonable distance from the arresting officer in a confronation. 25ft, ok. BUT, the law states that that 25 ft prohibition applies to those private citizens that are recording. Nothing is said about being 10ft away as long as you do not have recording apparatus. So, Wilderness, this law is not about crowd control, but about information control. Violation of the First amendment is the result. This is one heck of a misdemenor with penalties levied of a $2,000 fine or 180 days in jail. So what about all the civilians that gather without cameras at less than 25 feet, would that not be an obstacle to the officer doing his or her job?
What they propose is ridiculous, why can't i record my own encounter with law enforcement?
The intent and objective of this law is quite obvious to most of us, it needs to rendered null and void by the courts and I am sure that it will be.
I am not at all surprised. I think I heard talk like that for here in Chicago.
I do feel that as with anything, some people go too far. But videos dont kill people. The police do too much bs prowling.
CG, thanks for the comment. The enemy (the right) wants to blur the differences between actions taken for public safety and those used simply to prevent the kinds of videos that got them into trouble. Much like their complaints about "voter fraud". When your folks in Chicago makes these kinds of moves, just say no as it is just a pretext to figuring out a way to permit the cops to beat those wooly heads without anyone looking over their shoulder.
The system in Chicago is definitely set up to ensure the "differences" for woolies...
I also saw a class-action suit for all the many people beaten/interrogated/terrorized by CPD. Bandaid then (this won't happen again) law changes... it probably will become legal to use excessive force (if "warranted"); and you better not tape them either.
Only God can save me...
Credence, what's happenin', bro?
Anyway, I am not really back yet. I've just been trolling around the site for the past several days, trying to get in shape to make a comeback.
Moving on, the following is my response to your hub:
Actually, all of the white cops who are out there brutalizing and killing male blacks are doing what a large and growing number of white civilians wish they could do. And racism is NOT the reason why a great many whites want to come down hard on a number of male blacks. The reason why they want to do that is they have little or no respect for black society as a whole.
Also, and so far as that goes, a considerable number of blacks, themselves, do not have any respect for their society in general -- and many of them would like to go out and stomp and shoot some male blacks.
Now, the big question is why do a sizable number of people, including whites and blacks alike, have little or no respect for black society as a whole?
That question can be answered by asking other questions, and here they are: How can black society be respected when hundreds of their communities are nasty, filthy places in which the residents are not even making small efforts to clean them up? How can black society be respected when blacks, themselves, are not carrying out any major initiatives to do such things as lower their astronomical rates of out-of-wedlock births and violent black-on-black crime? How can black society be respected when wealthy black entertainers and pro-athletes are living in luxurious mansions and being chauffeured around in big fancy vehicles while millions of their racial counterparts are living in abject poverty and squalor? How can black society be respected when thousands of male blacks are impregnating black women and girls and walking away, for good, right after they do that? How can black society be respected when only a handful of older black men are taking actions to straighten out the thousands of young male blacks who are walking around in the streets looking dangerous and suspicious and often behaving like savages? And I could go on.
In summation and similar to what I stated before, none of the white cop-on-black killings -- and none of the slights by whites that blacks are experiencing today -- are rooted in racism. Those realities are outgrowths from the fact that many in the US have little or no respect for black society as a whole. And unless blacks straighten up and fly right, things are only going to get worse.
Thus, it is time for blacks to stop sitting around, waiting for a "savior" appear on the scene. The time is ripe for "Black America" to kick off a bold new movement based entirely on unlimited black enterprise, capitalism, self-reliance and self-determination.
Now, back to the Fox News Channel.
No respect for the black society.
"Step right up, ladies and gentlemen! Fine buck here! Looks he'll be strong and sire strong offspring. Going once, going twice..."
"Next up, vGood lookn wench for breedn. She's worth much more than we're askin'"
That is the first impression that blacks have upon this country. I think it was a lasting impression.
Then they HAD to set 'em loose (after a bloody war). But now, America sneers at the mention of them.
Then they set some laws to ensure that they didn't benefit from all a America's hard work.
Keep them over there. And they better not come to our towns... we'll strang them low-lives up on a...
Then, damn it's been a few years and they still cannot get it together amidst the burnings and the lynchings and the shufflin around for a place to eat at THEIR restaurant or in the back of ours.
Then, the people's hollerin... we gotta give'em some aid, but we'll make it available for all... no sense in them being the only ones eligible. They've had it cushy already.
Let's put em up some buildings over there... let em eat themselves up...
Uh-oh... looks like they coming up... Jim send yo boys over with some fire for them uppity niggras. And don't forget yo mask.
They tryna move where!!! Charlie, call the gov'nah...
Say theys tryna march over the what for what??? get the gov'nah and the explosives.
Ova mi dead bawdeh...
Then, they're in our schools, on our blocks, in our movie theaters... we need to draw a line...
Seems nobody has ever had any respect for Blacks. They are not any worse off than white people given the same poverty. The poverty is a result of carefully strategized intent.
No matter how much money you had in the 40's just one lifetime ago... you could not vote if you were black. Now that's government, against the people.
Nothing but bars here and there...
Rich black people feel better than the poor ones... why would they pull them up??? Then who would they outshine??? They were taught to compete against one another. And they taught their children. Some black poor people feel "higher-class" as well. They were taught that. Just one lifetime ago...
Black people do as well as any other socially. They don't really kill their spouses for a check. When they have money, they do much better than when not. Everyone does.
The targeting, and hauling off to jail of men, has formed a thick barrier to the workplace.
I guess I could go on and on too...
Pump some money from wherever (legally) into the black community and things will turn around.
Cgenaea, I am nearly 70 years old so such things as Jim Crow laws, lynchings of black people, segregated facilities, and the struggles of the Civil Rights Movement are not things that I learned about in school or read about in books. I wuz there.
Furthermore, back in the day, I received "Rodney King-style" beatings at the hands of LAPD cops on four occasions, as well as a number of "lesser beatings" by them -- and I have the scars to show for it. Additionally, I have been discriminated against by whites so many times I lost count a very long time ago.
So, please do not attempt to insult me by implying that I am out of touch when it comes to blacks' adverse experience in America.
In closing I must say that I am doing quite well today and the reason why that is the case is, my attitude has always been "No Matter How Hard They Try They Can't Get Me Down."
And before I sign off I must ask you, If things are so tough for blacks today, why are you so well off, well educated and well fed?
I have an awesome God. Because I said, they'll never get me too!!! Education, food, and shelter are gifts to me. I with all my education, have been unemployed for years. Was it my bogus charge that I tried my best to explain away to people without such experience??? I wonder.
You n me... we're of a different breed (upbringing). We were taught survival. Against all odds. Your wounds and my false accusation are not figments of imagination though.
Some black people who make it are fooled into a false sense of "better than" and began thumbing their noses at people who, given the same tools, would do better...
Incarceration rates are ridiculous. Given your experience, are all those black faces guilty beyond their freedom??? I know you know that many of them don't belong there. And they come out, in droves, with no education, no money, and an X on every job application.
What do they do??? Those without education and good upbringing. They are people too. And there are many. Nobody cares. Nose-thumbing and bowling over. That's not right.
Wow!!! You were there... I cannot imagine my life in that world. Was it really as bad as I've heard? Were people scared? Did you Malcolm or Martin??? How did you feel then? Did you feel inferior?
All this happened before me. And my people on both sides, acted like it skipped all around them. We never discussed the race thing.
Cgenaea, the following is a little taste of all of the constructive messages that I am out there preaching:
Yeah you gangsta
You gonna go to prison
‘cause you makin’ bad decisions
You out there bangin’ ‘n stealin’
robbin’ ‘n dealin’
doin’ them drive bys
‘n you got all them knives
‘n a whole lotta guns
yooz a real bad dude
public enemy numba one
so bad boy
whatchoo gonna do
when they come for you
In addition, I have posted well over 100 commentaries and other works on HubPages. And if you ever decide to read some of my hubs, you will become aware that I have been out there fighting what I consider to be the good fight for more than four decades.
Are you preaching to any white boys??? I think they do their thing as often. And since there are many more of them, I would think that an eequal-opportunity tongue lashing is only right. Your people are not dumb, preferably criminal, or lazy... they're targeted. Just as they were during your era.
Yes, some ants dodge the magnifying glass just fine, congratulations. But other ants are incinerated or lame for the rest of their lives. And I bet there are more ants in the latter category.
I will NEVER concede to the idea that black people are hopeless or self-incinerating. I wear that skin, so I know better...
My "G's" are all extremely intelligent only one or two with absolutely no potential...
We gotta stop making laws to shove them behind bars. The country is suffering from all the people out of work. I wonder what their plan is... I'm sure they have one.
Preach available job listings to the G's... that may help the idleness and the poverty. Lofty finger-pointing only makes people angry. And helps others to feel more valuable and elevated. Gather the homies and tell them that they are valuable kings worthy of all that they put their hearts to. Things may turn around.
Way back in the day when I was an inexperienced little dude who still had a whole lot to learn, I was often contrary just for the sake of being contrary.
You are not alone... most young people (of every race) make mistakes in judgment. We do not hold it against them for life very often. But there is one crew that gets it... even when they're just standing there.
I know you know that to be true.
How can I wag my finger at Mookie when he's beneath his circumstance??? Poor Tyrone cannot get ID. He spent so much time in jail on drug charges (since 9 yrs old) he hasn't established a home address, cannot produce a birth certificate because he hasn't any ID... do you know it's illegal to not have ID in Illinois? But what does he do? He hasn't much money for transportation to the various offices to be turned away... and he doesn't have the paperwork to present when he gets there. But one of the most intellectual "thugs" I know...
What's the story of the people you minister to???????? Do you even know???
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000-Blacks can and do succeed immeasurably. There is no excuse not to do so. The reason why so many Blacks do not succeed is because of a victimology, excuse-making, and rescue me pathology. BTW, I am a Black woman. Have a lovely and blessed night.
I'm assuming you have some tips for the uneducated, about the ways of making it big in this society. Especially when gainful employment is withheld, money is low, no parents or other life/financial sponsors, money is low. Usual scholastic funding is withheld, etc.
Everyone loves a good success story with maps.
Help the brothers out... I'm sure at least one has a pen.
I know that this post is not worth a zero bonanza, but I'd still like your attention. Please.
Now, if this is asking too much, please disregard. I really don't want to argue. The contempt is quite scary.
I found it odd that you announced again that you are a black woman. Does that give the victimology tounge-lashing/finger-wagging more weight?
"Pump some money from wherever (legally) into the black community and things will turn around"
No it won't.
Oh you gotta give me more than that to chew on...
Ok. If you give out too many benefits, it just becomes entitlement. Do you want to the United States to look like G. Britain, where everyone's on the dole for years and years? That's what will happen. I guarantee it.
Things like the Earned Income Credit make sense, since it's an incentive to work.
Thanks! I gotta go way back. Come with me now...
When this country began... one of the first orders of business was to advertise. They shipped flyers everywhere...
They wanted people to come to build the starting country.
Free land and help to get started... just for making the trip.
Became a force to be reckoned with... to build a country, you need strong citizens.
They didn't say come and try your luck... they knew that people would need something to start with... low to no interest loans.
When they set the two-legged property free, their message was... different.
How do these "freshly arrived" Citizens start??? Hey, try your luck...
I'll keep a spot warm if u needs more plantationing...
Many efforts were purposely thwarted. But they made it... no one can tell me that black people are not "able"
Now we have today... a nation of people who are average and "freshly arrived" due to various set-backs and set-ups. They need assistance. The settlers made good on the MUCH that was handed to them when they came, knowing nothing about how to navigate the new territory. People gave them all kinds of assistance. Red-carpet style.
Too many blacks are pushed to the back-burner. America taught them how to stay there.I oftoften imagine if I would've even wanted a "good education" if I had to endure taunts and sneers and spit...
In the 70's and early 80's it was pretty cool, remember? Industry was booming and most could find work. My people owned homes and businesses and lived ok... then something happened. Oh yeah... war on thugs... I mean drugs...
Hasn't really been the same since.
No, that's just victim mentality. Poor people have MORE THAN ENOUGH assistance. It's time for people to start doing things on their own.
Just like SSI for alcoholics and addicts. All you do is create "I can't help myself" victims who will take as much as they can possibly get.
Seen plenty of welfare moms in the 80's having more kids, just to keep the benefits coming. Pathetic.
Please help the homies janesix. The other lady who pops in and out to wag her finger has lost her rolodex or something, I think. But she keeps that FINGER close. (black people know THAT finger well)
Where is this blessed assistance you keep speaking of???
SSI for drunks and disabled. They're neither and have you EVER tried applying for SSI??? WHEW!!!
Something that they are eligible for that will assist them in building the life that you and I have.
We've been through this before. Free heath care. Free higher education. Job corps. AmeriCorps. Unemployment benefits for six months or more. Section 8 housing and rental assistance.. Community action heating. ssi for those who really can't work.
Do you want "forever" dole and free housing like they have in England? So people can sit on their butts and refuse to work? How is that working for them?
Exactly, bootstraps! For those who are able, the only helping hand is at the end of their arms. No one else is, can, or should do for them. They have to pull themselves out of their dire socioeconomic doldrums.
Yes, we've been here before. Bootstraps? You have bootstraps??? Most us only get BOOTS (i wont say to where )
No, I don't want free housing. Jobs!!!!!
Section 8 and SSI are both very hard to get. Job corps, you're not eligible after 24 and there's a long line now so they may be very selective and boot many. Will they take you if you have a record?
How does free housing work for them in England? That sounds pretty good! in my hood there are 1 vacant dilapidation for every occupied house. Vacancies are hazardous. Yet they sit for many years while homeless people dodge police all day.
That is so true. There is generational welfare out there which is an aberrant pathology. There are those who find it psychologically easier to be the victim and to blame outside forces rather to assess their dire situation and take responsibility to improve their lives. It is not easy but it can be done.
Feenix! Where have you been? Nice to have you back.
Yeah that disrepect is certainly part of it. You live in the Big Apple, that is ground zero for much of this controversy. Regardless of what these people think of me, you or us, I insist that they behave professionally and know that they can and will be held accountable for their actions. The ubiquitous cell phone culture encourages them to be on the best behavior and could serve as a protection for both them and us. In your last paragraph, I cannot agree more that we need a rennaissance in our communities. I don't require that they like or even respect me, but I insist that they keep their opinions to themselves and do their jobs as is it prescribed. The cameras are just another assurance that they do just that.
As always I have been stirring up the pot. Good to see you again, don't become a stranger.
Bravo, Credence. Cool reply to my comment -- very cool.
And you are right on about the "camera thing" as it applies to situations in which the cops "stop 'n frisk" someone.
And at some point in the future, I am going post a hub in which I will let everyone know what I have been up to.
Feenix? I just tried an interesting thing … I went through your comment and deleted the references to black and white, replacing those references with something that seems more general.
When modified, the misquote reads as:
Then I re-read the comment. When done, I find I agree with this modified version of what was expressed.
I would offfer this "The apparent breakdown of current society has little to do with race. Racism is just a convenient and well popularized scapegoat."
Chilling. I agree with your version too!
The black/white thing IS played out...
Equal responsibility for our country and its citizens. No one "race" is better/worse in personhood. Everyone has those few...
A country, divided among itself, must fall.
Jim, I really do like what you did with my comment. Quite frankly, however, I have always found it impossible to be "color blind."
I don't think it makes sense sense to say no such incidents are rooted in racism. In the same way that it wouldn't make sense to say that all are.
It also doesn't makes sense, in my opinion, to suggest that none of the slights black people experience are rooted in racism. White supremacist ideology is pervasive. If you watch a television, listen to a radio, browse the web, read a magazine or newspaper, listen to music, go to a school, go to a court, go to a hospital, go to a bank, go to a place of employment, you will see white supremacist ideology at work. I can't imagine why you would think that's not the case.
As for communities being "nasty, filthy places". Imagine you get punched in the face. You try to fight back, but someone holds your arms behind you, so you get punched in the face again. You try to kick yourself free, but your legs get tied behind you, so you get punched in the face again. You try to shout in protest, but you get punched in the face again. Then someone walks by and sees you dishevelled, with spit and blood all over you, and says: "what a nasty, filthy person. Look at the state he's in". Objectively they are right. You are a mess. But how did you get in that mess, and how can you get out of it when the person holding your hands and feet has loosened their grip slightly, but still has your hands and feet in their grasp?
As an alternative, how about making it a felony for a police officer to intimidate or otherwise interfere with anyone who is peacefully, and non intrusively, recording police actions during interactions with members of the public. Why don't you ask your representative to introduce such a Bill?
I believe that in Colorado such a law has been contemplated, I don't know about the felony part. But, it is to be illegal for a law officer to interfere with cell phone recorders as long as they otherwise do not interfere with the law enforcement officer.
I don't think that I need to pursue this much more, according to the comments on a Dallas Morning News article, even the conservative commenters were upset with the Representative that was introducing the law. They said that it was 'overreach' and accused him of being a closet liberal even though he is Republican. But this attitude and approach is right wing, 100 percent pure. Both ideological poles dislike the proposal, only the police departments have been slow to giving it discredit. I say that it is DOA before it gets out of the Texas legislature, and if not then it will be eliminated by the courts.
Yes this is interesting considering Jade Helm which labels Texas as a Red / threatening state. As well we all know that the media creates the illusion so what is this? Just people coming along to ruin their illusion. The hoaxes and false flags are at an all time high. It will not be long before law abiding citizens and Christians are targeted by the illusion. Ever see the movie it actually mentions Jade Helm. So people remember when you hear of the next disaster remember that it was set up on purpose to control us all. Divide and conquer I no longer play the game and I suggest you do as well.
Of course this is the all despicable republican's fault , Or it's the big bad wolf , the police's fault . Why else would they want any sort of order in an otherwise disorderly world . You started off on a fairly respectable point [ free speech ]but disintegrated from there . , There has to be some order to any police action , whether it be a traffic stop , a public display of rioting , a street march, or an arrest , anything for that matter . Dash cams, body cams are a good thing , but to use a camera by a civilian , with a politically motivated agenda , in a possibly compromising safety situation is the real issue .
Public safety , by definition , demands some type of order , a conformity to ALL laws by ALL of us . Every idiot with a smart phone now claims to be a reporter . The problem really lies with the rarity of using common sense-- by everyone !
AH, conformity to the law does not accomodate cover ups. I dont see the difference with having a person within 10 feet with no camera and one at 10 feet with a cell phone camera, it is not like the recording device is cumbersome and would make the individual anymore an impediment to the PD doing their job than the bystander without recording device. So what is the difference. If you do your job the way you are supposed to, why is there anything to censor or fear?
Laws are already in place to prevent citizens from interfering with police while they are doing their job. Specifically legislating against video recording is a blatant attempt to stop citizens from exposing corruption. Who would be in favor of that?
Police should be happy to have cameras recording their actions. Video can confirm they are doing their jobs within the law and back up their statements. That is, if their statements are truthful.
You're such a PRETTY KITTY!!!
And awful darn smart. You and that satellite camera know wrong when you see it. ♡
A camera is protection for the good cop. I bet many more of them are dreading the idea... you can kinda tell what kinda cop some of us would make, or made...
The cameras would catch all those "criminals" standing around smoking dope, and being a huge disturbance, and fitting the description, and switching up the evidence......
Exactly. The cameras should confirm the "I feared for my life" defense. Cops should welcome them, because you know, their job is so dangerous.
Yes, we the people, have turned against them in large numbers, I think. Yet, no cops shot in the back lately... but I know we're doing something to keep them so darned fearful. Yet, I haven't heard of one cop to run away from a citizen...
However, the camera will tell the story and it should definitely help them feel more safer. And catch all those broken taillights... lol (I really crack myself up...)
By the way, yes, it is the "fault" of a Republican. Look it up:
House Bill 2918, introduced by state Rep. Jason Villalba (R-Dallas)
Is there a chance you can provide a source for the text of the proposed law?
Most certainly, FJ it is HB No 2918, I am using an I pad and have difficulty cutting and pasting. But it is only 3 pages.
Another point, those that want this law know that the fines and jail time would intimidate many from filming even when they are outside the legal perimeter. That is the desired effect in practice rather than theory. Get far enough away so that there is no question, you are too far away to record the activity,
Looks like murderers are eligible for financial aid at a glance... but not drug dealers. Thats the one that most who are set up are charged with. Misdemeanor or felon... I really want to understand that...
If I kill your mother, I can go to college on the government. If I sell you a sack of weed, the government closes its doors? Maybe I read something wrong.
What you do not have the right to do However , Is to interfere with a crime or a processing of a crime OR a civil disturbance, riot or committing of a crime - in action ! . A cop does have the right to be physically safe from ANYONE whom they feel threatened by ! It is the most intrusive and offensive thing to watch when there is a camera stuck in the face of someone just dong their job! There is a HUGE difference between a controlled media camera setting and the idiotic interfering of any fool with a smart phone !
What is it about civil order and conformity to existing laws that you don't understand ? Have we become a society that's so up on --" I have MY rights you know "!-- That we can't see the reason for ANY laws ?
What you do not have the right to do However , Is to interfere with a crime or a processing of a crime OR a civil disturbance, riot or committing of a crime - in action !
Agreed. Laws already exist to prevent this.
A cop does have the right to be physically safe from ANYONE whom they feel threatened by !
Yeah, those smartphones are scary! But, seriously, police officers have chosen a job where they often do not feel physically safe; it is part of the job. Police officers are trained (supposedly) how to handle these situations with the appropriate force (supposedly). Videotaping in and of itself is not dangerous to anyone. And, we both know laws already exist to prevent interference.
It is the most intrusive and offensive thing to watch when there is a camera stuck in the face of someone just dong their job! There is a HUGE difference between a controlled media camera setting and the idiotic interfering of any fool with a smart phone !
Anything "stuck in the face" would be interference as already described under the law.
What is it about civil order and conformity to existing laws that you don't understand ? Have we become a society that's so up on --" I have MY rights you know "!-- That we can't see the reason for ANY laws ?
Ah, this is where you exaggerate and mischaracterize others' positions in order to make it easier for you to argue against. Got it.
Oh! And the welfare baby popper outers have ALL been done away with. those pathetic women are now underemployed with many children who sit themselves.
Bootstraps are given. Some get so many bootstraps that they don't even have to bend to reach them.
They are the lecturers, atop a hill. Stooping only to spit.
The stuff that nourishes the heart of racism and gives it strength.
My people were generous with all. I guess it's just the way I was raised.
I will help you poor people. ♡
There are jobs and opportunities out there. People just have to be conscientious looking for a job. Go to job fairs, tell others that you are looking for a job, even network on social media. If one wants a job, he/she can find it.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart!!!
Something is much better than absolutely nothing. Help is needed.
You have not helped the almost 50% of the population with a scar on their police files. But those who are able and willing, and there are many, know this information already. The jobs are looking for a certain type.
I'm entrepreneurial. I think it is that population's only hope. Corporate America has locked most of them out.
People don't have entrepreneurial knowledge. They need capital building strategies. Thanks again!!!
Good. Help me then, because I'm freaking poor, through all fault of my own. Oh wait. I'm only AMERICAN poor. Which means I actually live in luxury, compared to most of the rest of the worlds' population.
I have indoor plumbing, sanitary water supply, food in my cupboard, a phone, a computer, and a car. My boyfriend barely makes minimum wage, but we can afford to live on it, because we chose not to have kids. Not only because we probably wouldn't make good parents, but because we know we can't afford them.
We now consider generational welfare recipients , generational SSI recipients and minimum wage earners poor Americans . We even go so far as to say having five kids before you own your own home or have a real job is perfectly okay . The accepted image of poverty in America is no where near REAL poverty .
Here's a few examples of what poverty isn't ;
It isn't running out of ice cream a day before pay day .
It isn't about not paying your credit card bills on time .
It isn't about intentional college loan default - if you went then you're not even close to being poor .
It isn't about which car loan you pay first .
It isn't about having four kids before your husband has a job .
Good morning, ahorseback. Poverty isn't nor of the above. Poverty is agonizing hunger, it is wondering if one is able to pay an essential bill. It is living in substandard housing. It is wondering if there is a downturn will one descend further through the socioeconomic cracks. It is when homelessness is almost a companion.
It is hopelessness and utter powerlessness, knowing that you are not living at the acceptable decent level. It is having the bare essentials, if that. Most of time, one is lucky if h/she has the essential. It is a "lifestyle" of scarcity, want, and doing without. It is having inferior medical/health care, inferior quality foods i.e. spam, canned foods, government cheese, fatty products, and not having good quality nutritious food because such foods are costly to the average impoverished person. It is wearing second-hand clothing and cast offs. If one has a job, it is a dead end, hellish, minimum wage job with no prospect of advancement. One also has to worry if the job will be phased out, outsourced, or computerized then one is in really a serious socioeconomic pickle.
When one is impoverished, h/she does not possess the necessary skills or education to obtain a decent paying job. So the impoverished is more likely to remain in his/her dire socioeconomic circle. When one is impoverished, h/she is considered to be society's outgroup or D group, totally undesirable. Poor, impoverished people are what the middle class are deathly phobic of becoming...... Being impoverished/poor is hell physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically, even psychically. Being poor/impoverished= scant, scarcity, want, never enough even for the basics.
I am addressing real American poverty. There are American poor/impoverished who lead hellish lives. However, third world poverty is 100X worse than American poverty. Such people exist in the 9th, even 10th circle of hell. They don't even have the basics, they are drowning socioeconomically.
It is also many people strapping up their NEW boots and kicking them right in the you know where.
Now we know the plight of Americans in substandard socioeconomic conditions. So what do we do??? Certainly not stomp our bootstraps all across their faces on our way to our shiny new car...
We find the root of their lowly issues. And assist if we can...
Humility (a necessary Jesus ingredient) allows us to know that there is NOTHING in this world that ensures our perpetuated socioeconomic class... just ask all the Wallstreet fail suicides...
When i was hungry... you lifted up your finger and said, "That's what'chu get!!! You ol lazy, good fa nuthn, nonproducer!!!"
The root of the issue is abandonment of mothers with children by fathers.
Or jail... or death... or the sexy lady down at the office.
What do we do??? Finger strengtheners for the influx???
Maybe we should get a section of town to put them in. We'll call it Bastard Alley... let them eat themselves and get out of our productive faces. Oh!!! I think we kinda do that already. Well, we can drive by with our "birdie" hanging out the window. Relish in our prideful good-decision-making talents. Hopefully bump them as we pass...
Or get their churches involved. The preachers could try to instill some responsibility in young men.
I am trying to think of solutions, you just get angry. Why?
Well, this is the first "solution focused" response that I remember from you. I am not angry. Sarcastic. It seems to work when all else fails...
Preachers in black communities know the plight up-close. Many men are not personally responsible for their down-troddenness.
We have people wagging their fingers all the time... so people haven't forgotten that they are worthless in their state. But I really don't think that making one to feel worthless will empower him in any way. Especially if he absorbs his worthlessness...
Mandatory parenting classes for those who get caught not paying child support.
Nah... I really don't think that will happen. If it does, I bet there will be well-thought-out rubrics that will ensure the right people have to take time out of their busy day to attend.
They usually think of everything.
Woe is me... is not my song. My country, tis of THEE...I sing.
I wish, I had a solution as to why Black men are beligerant so often, as a black man, I remember the hostility to the traditional academic routes to success as a booby trap set by the 'man'. When I asked young students about the desire to rap or play sports, the affinity for it was due to the fact it produced wealth outside prescribed system and its regimen which there always seem to be a distrust. The heck with reading, writing and arithmetic. The cost of getting ahead according to the system was equivalent to 'selling out' your manhood and personhood. I observe it and never understood it. For instance, why do we riot and destroy property within our own community, no one else does?
You and Jane6 ask questions that we been struggling to explain for 2 or 3 generations. Why cling to a formula or cultural values that consistanly leads to failure?
The attitude you describe is also prevalent among poor white males, and females as well. I've seen it in rural communities in the south as well as my home town, a small, blue-collar logging community in the northwest.
The rioting seems to be pent-up anger, something we all should be able to understand (not condone).
Thanks, Pretty Panther (pretty kitty) Maybe that is the source of resentment that explain why so many vote against their apparents interests. Anger and frustration on a system that has left them out. They say that many of the unionized factory jobs and such were the inheritance from their parents offering a middle class life. Now that that has all gone away, they find themselves where black people have been all along and it is not a comfortable place.
Riots have been a part of history of the world, so I guess that it happens. But for blacks and marginalized whites in this culture, it is counterproductive, not any real route toward change, but a venting of anger to the powers that be who can and do respond in a negative way
Black men were taught belligerence. They were taught by EVERYONE else...
Whatsername called it conditioning. "If you want respect and power, ya gotta do it like dis..." but all the rope ran out. So they shipped them guns... as poor as they were...
"Thus they can eat themselves up... or we can institutionalize the rest!!! Even their OWN people turn against'em if they get a lil pow'r!!!"
Them "uppity" ones... we'll get to later...
Culture is what distinguishes one people from another. But hoodrats aint all black no more.
There are various inter/intracultural colors. We're all people. No one better than the next, given the same circumstances.
Who commits suicide or shoots up the job when they go broke/get fired??? We ALL got statistics. And the right ones are slanted the right way...
People need bandages, not lofty puffed out sermons.
The 'man' teaches them belligerence, to what end? Death, jail or a marginalized economic existence. So maybe we need to turn off and dismiss this kind of teaching as more manipulation?
If you want respect and power, you gotta go to school and avoid the land mines that the 'system' sets for you. The rest of this macho stuff is just an illusion.
Yes, we are all people, no one is better, so the vast differences in outcome in our lives are simply due to circumstances? No one says that the circumstances in which we find ourselves have to remain the same, we do have the ability to change things.
Yeah, people need bandages, but if you continue to run into the same buzz saw, when you were warned not to, those than can help will run out of bandages and will have a less sympathetic ear.
Yeah... we know the problem. And we kinda have an idea for a solution.
So what's the problem?
To me, it is the many people who view poverty as a solo "effort" when many people really are underneath their circumstances. You do not walk up to a man with a boulder on his chest and ask, "Why would you lay down and let that boulder roll over on your chest!?!?" You PUSH! and you call for others to push with you...
Now if you see that man lay down and call the next boulder then you know (It's time for bankruptcy and a clean slate )... but there are thousands of boulders across the land... SOMEBODY wants to be free...
If you want respect and power, you gotta go to school and avoid the land mines that the 'system' sets for you. The rest of this macho stuff is just an illusion.
Check Credence2! And STILL them emmer-effers caught me w/o knowledge of the law and threw me a curveball.
I didn't fall... but I'm special I got family, good upbringing, empowered mindset.
But that ish really threw me off... I know that if I didn't have my tools, I'd be laying on the couch in defeated tears with a lasting depression that crumbles my soul... I wanna help her/him see better. They already know their worthlessness. They need worth.
Whatever. Let them continue acting like selfish children then. Nothing will change.
Credence2, surely you don't think that no one else messes up their own stuff... it just does not affect others so bad.
When Brad gets drunk and throws a chair through a plate glass window because his next beer was warm... the glass compny is out the very next day... edit*** and so is BRAD!!!
We got boards for blacks... that does look a bit tacky...
Solution not sermons
Do we need to go over their looooong line of predecessors again? They got messed up. And half of it was NOT their fault. We the people, have ways of covering up for the HUMAN ness of some, (bankruptcy, billion dollar bail-outs) actually everyone else are afforded the big forgiveness.
CG, I don't want to be the one offering sermons. I have been in riots (King Assassination), I did not participate. I learned early that I don't have much use for people who do not have self-control, emotions and anger get out of hand the very contrary of success which requires a plan. The solutions have been made manifest from any number of sources for over a generation, but who is listening and taking action? Of course, the problems we are discussing is not just the fault of the black/poor community. But are you taking the effort to make adjustment to the element that you do control?
We live in a capitalist society and although we both recognize the hypocrisy and double standards applied to the wealthy and affluent, that is not going to change anytime in the near future. I do not want to come off as 'holier than thou", but as my bud, Feenix, mentioned earlier, our communities have serious problems. We are in a political climate now where endless resources are not likely to be forthcoming.
When my spouse thrown a dish on the floor in anger, she messes up her own stuff, for which she must pay to replace later. It would have been better to think before you act under all circumstances
Unfortunately, many people are human. When some mess up... no problem, we've made adjustment for them.
The black community has never had a chance to flourish. When they gain footage, certain envies arise, and laws start changing.
There needs to be a system of stability.
Black people (for lots of reasons) don't have that... they were taught," when you get something, hold it up to your brothers and stick out your tongue. Youre a credit, stick out your chest...You've made it to our side, but watch your step..."
Low to no interest loans for business start-up seems to be the bare minimum for people who don't know how to navigate the path to all those secret allowances offered to only a select few.
Why can't the government do that??? They sure stopped the presses and spent a pretty penny chasing them off a bridge just a few decades ago; as well as break the bank (* edit*housing them) for coming up with their own "businesses" their own way today...
The Black Panthers and Muslims were promptly attacked by the system as a threat. Outside of the violence we have heard about these organizations they promoted self-defense, self-reliance, respect for ourselves and our families, consequently J Edgar Hoover had to make it a priority to destroy them which he did. As a kid, I read the Mohammed Speaks newspapers which promoted many of the characteristics found within successful groups. With those attitudes we build our own side, which is the right side. Black Muslims did not want to intergrate into a dying culture, we could do better.
Unfortunately, who you know is almost as important as what you know, there are programs, federal grants and such that could be a start. We, as a group, are so lacking in capital for start ups. If we would trust one another enough to combine resources to do things that the more affluent are able to do more easily? I can't say that the Government does not have such programs available to be discovered under careful investigation. Yes, it would help.
Abraham Lincoln charged with freeing the slaves--- assassinated
Black Panther Party charged with trying to empower blacks--- disintegrated by any means necessary (sound familiar? )
Martin Luther King charged with trying to empower blacks--- assassinated
Malcolm X charged with trying to empower black--- assassinated
John F Kennedy charged with nigger lovin'--- assassinated
Greenwood, Tulsa, Oklahoma niggras charged with looking uppity and smelling nice--- whole town destroyed by racist war within 24hrs with citizens running for their lives... not one white arrest???
Water hoses and laws about where you sit...
Police officers searching you and your car just because it's rolling down the street. HOPING you say or do SOMETHING anything...
Doors slammed in your face because of how you look.
People sneering when you enter their restaurant
People telling you how unnecessary you are on a regular basis...
I do not wonder why it looks more rewarding to stand around smokin' and rapping...
Especially if I think that's all there is for me...
There is more for you. we gotta get past the same kind of brainwashing that have toddlers of color choosing the white dolls over dolls that look like them. We have to be big and determined to rise above all of this. The negative messages are powerful but not insurmountable. Their influence often acts at the subconscious level. We always have to be thinking and aware of its presence and consider how it could affect your attitude and actions.
All these great men died so that we may move forward, not stay in the same place. When we reorient ourselves, we can cease being victims.
The first six points of your comment occurred over 50 or more years ago, minimum.People who do not have a keen interest in education are going to find it difficult to move above and beyond current circumstances. I lived in Southern California for a while during the late 1970s and watched Mexicans that come here move into apartment with 11 folks, three families occupying. They were careful that they were not evicted, but they would save enough for one family to go and put downpayments on a house. The Vietnamese refugees operated like this as well, people working together for the betterment of their group over the long term, putting off short term gratification. We are not good at that and that holds us back.
While we are far from a post racial society, we have seen black presidents, powerful heads of cabinet departments and many role models, for those that care to learn to imitate successful people. If this is possible, what is to stop any one of us who is determined enough from achieving his or her goals in life?
Take the message that the black dolls send to their toddlers...
Where in the world TODAY, could a TODDLER learn about self-hate???????
And where, her teachers...?
This early stuff is not coming from outside...
It is taught by people who have learned that lesson well, at home...
The people died because people hated their existence... not a catalyst. Had the people lived, things would have continued to get better. People were scared into dormancy. Jesse's still around... but HE aint takn no bullets... he know his line. Learned early...
We used cold-blooded murder as we wished. You and me, power. Mookie and Ray Ray, damn, I just CAN'T if HE couldn't...
They learned that. Their brothers and fathers are locked up... dead. why??? Drugs??? Killing??? What is their other crime??? Drugs and killings are often interrelated. What... you think the homies is making Columbia trips???
Everyone does drugs and killing! It's human; under pressure. But our nation sought them out.. black people... why??? Expectation studies and hungry rats in close quarters studies, intelligence studies. Institutionalization studies...They put some Science to ensuring top dog spot...
They know how this happened. I do too.
They're hoping that the "credits" will continue to forget.
Leave them lazy so n sos in their squalor. Heh-heh-heh...
Picked them from amongst ALL THE OTHERS.
Their own people wag a disgusted finger...
Do you know what they learned in their expectations studies??? Then they got out the statistics chart markers to write out some numbers...
Yes, I have to realize that the self loathing of ones so young have to be reflected from the eyes of their parents.
They have the hopelessness gene and pass it on. Takes strong medicine to break the pattern, and courage to self administer the cure of which we all are familiar.
We don't need civil rights leaders as we need strong families with heads of household that will work within the communities to remove negative infliuences from the inside out. We should be supporting law enforcement or anyone that will work with us toward that end.
As Grace says, we are a strong people, so strong that the only real contender to our being and doing what we want is ourselves. Lets harness the strength and use it to our advantage within our communities and with our interchanges with the outside.
Like any addiction, you have to quit cold turkey and deliberately plan to move down another path. We do all the things necessary to make that move real and permanent. Everybody may do drugs and killing, but we are taking more casulties as a group; dead, in jail, or otherwise MIA. The numbers are so frightening that we as a group face a danger of being undone.
Before anyone can save you, you have to decide that you want to live. Then you will do the things that promote life, and turn away from death dealing patterns of behavior.
I still recuse myself as not having all the answers. But it is my opinion, that until we do a better job of arranging our own house, we cannot seriously talk about problems caused by the neighbors, outsiders.
Are you telling EVERYONE? I mention that the world has problems to convey that NOBODY has room to discuss the behaviors of others. I know some people bash their own mothers in the face with bats...
How can my whatever be highlighted???
Because I'm poor??? Obviously rich people have horrifying issues as well. But because they have resources from their father who arrived on the Mayflower, their degradation is muted...
I will never help them to box my entire race of people because of some numbers they wrote on charts. Nobody amplifies the fact that of ALL of our nation's crime, black people are predominantly responsible for poor man stuff. Robbing, slangn, murder (but not mom).
Now lets look at all the other stuff and add up the numbers... I bet we find some similarly criminal tendencies. We already know that white people get caught with more drugs. Why the hell are there not more of them in jail on drug offenses? There are more of them. But we're not looking for them...
We all must clean up our houses. I won't yell my children and fathers into a false sense of belief that they are pathetic and pathological. It makes our babies feel that way when they play with their dolls.
Black people are WONDERFUL. and so are Hispanic. And Caucasian, and Arab...
We need to FIRST get OUR "mouthpieces" to speak life into their listener. We need black people who made it (with HELP of course) to stop looking back with a sour face similar to the man's... "y'all is f'd-up" is what they've said since the beginning. Our people HAVE HEARD THAT ENOUGH ALREADY... is working yet???
read what they learned in their "expectations" studies ...
No wonder black dolls are "ugly". Our own leaders tell us so.... now where did our leaders learn???
Keep in mind... if you walk around a poor (*edit*... or rich) white neighborhood after dark, you may come up missing... it's happened many times before...
But white dolls are pretty... what's the diff???
Thank you, Credence. It is imperative that we Black people go beyond the victimology and rescue me mindset. We Blacks are a strong, creative, and inventive people. We knew how to make lemonade out of lemons, even in the most horrific times. My parents are examples of poor Blacks who became middle class. Black people have to go beyond their psychological slave status. They must adopt the philosophy of positivity and ownership in their lives. They also have stop the anti-intellectual and anti-achievement mindset. They have to realize that it is cool to be smart and successful. They must know that being intelligent/smart is not uncool, bogus, lame, nor acting like the dominant culture.
They also should be cognizant of the fact that being successful is not selling out. It is a normative, even desired lifestyle. Black people have to stop glorifying, even deifying socioeconomic struggle and poverty and embrace the affluent lifestyle. Poverty is not chic. Black people have to be proactive and OWN their lives. They have to stop waiting for others to rescue them. Being the victim has been played out. Actual slavery was over in 1865 but psychological slavery yet continues. It is time to cease the madness.
Poor things have no idea how hard it is...
For every successfull person in America, there is at least one helper and a certain amount of skill...
We need lectures from people who started with nothing and rose to success on that flimsy ladder with all the splinters and the coloreds only sign. Not Drake who actually "started from the middle"...
The lectures should include "how to" instruction.
The finger-wagging should cease.
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