I support a sustainable two state solution that both can live with. I hope such a thing exists.
Injustice has marched back and forth over that land many times. That is way the grievances and the conflict are so intractable.
I support humanity. Israel is abusing the human rights of ordinary Palestinians to try to kick an already beaten people. The U.S. should never support a country that does to human beings what Israel does.
Wish there was a like button for this comment.
I think that if it accepts it so fiercely it is because it applies it profusely anywhere its economical, political and geo strategic interests lie.
I agree... But the US has done the same and still does.
I have no strong feelings either way, but slightly come down on the side of Israel.
They are surrounded by countries who have over the years gone to war with them with the intent of wiping out the country, but Israel have survived, and now have nominally civil relationships with these countries.
Israel has to endure hundreds of randomly fired missiles at population centres, which for the most are ignored by those outside of the country, and then every few years Israel react and retaliate, and so innocent civilians die on both sides, and Israel is then portrayed as the "baddie". But during this time Hamas or whoever takes the opportunity to execute their own people that they presume have been working for Israel, although most of whom probably haven't.
I have one thing to say against Israel though, as I don't really see the need to provocate by building in the disputed zone.
But I' don't live there, and my take on things mainly comes from reading BBC news
Knew I shouldn't have posted on this topic - there is no such thing as Palestinian Land. You might get away with saying built on Arabic land, but that then unleashes a whole long historical debate.
And how, in your opinion, does this historical debate somehow justify the mass murder of the Palestinian people, including so many children? I think you'll find when it comes to 'Israel has to endure hundreds of randomly fired missiles at population centres' that this could never be a serious comparison to the ethnic cleansing that is clearly taking place in that part of the world.
You don't even know what you are talking about...
1. No Jewish towns were ever built on land owned by Arabs.
2. No new Jewish towns (or 'settlements') have been built since 1993, the date of the Oslo Accords, in Areas A, B, or C, the areas of dispute/further negotiations under Oslo.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/rachel … -arab-land
I've written a Hub about the conflict which explains the history and is full of historic and current maps: Israel/Palestine Conflict Questions from Pakistan
In 1946, the British Mandate for Palestine was divided between Arabs and the Jewish Homeland.
The population of the Jewish Homeland was:
All Jews were driven out of Transjordan. Jews allowed Arabs to remain in the Jewish Homeland and they were offered citizenship with full voting rights. All citizens and residents were given freedom of religion and worship, free education and health care. Mandatory military service was not required for Arabs.
In addition to the Palestinian state created east of the Jordan River, the Gaza Strip is another independent Palestinian state which was created in 2005. No Jews live there and no Israeli troops are stationed there. It is ruled by Hamas, which is identified as a terrorist organization by ten countries, including Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Canada and the European Union.
Here are some statistics from my Hub, 'Israel/Palestine Conflict Questions from Pakistan':
"Between July 7 – August 26, 2014, Hamas fired 4,881 rockets and 1,753 mortars from Gaza into Israel, some of them aimed at Tel Aviv and the holy city of Jerusalem."
Another rocket was fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip yesterday. "The attack was the latest in a string of rockets targeting Israel over the last month, mostly attributed to a small salafi group locked in a battle with Gaza’s Hamas rulers."
http://www.timesofisrael.com/rocket-lau … from-gaza/
Israel retaliated six hours ago with a strike against the rocket launcher.
There's a lot more information on my Hub, as well as answers to questions posted on forums.
"OUTRAGEOUS: Guess who just came to dinner at the White House?"
http://allenbwest.com/2015/06/outrageou … ite-house/
That's a great article: "Let’s not forget it was ten years ago, in 2005, that Israel withdrew from Gaza, and what’s been the reward for a desire to 'coexist' and live in peace? The constant threat of rockets and missiles raining down upon them, indiscriminately. And one of the nations funding these attacks is Iran. Why is the Obama administration sitting at a negotiating table with the madness we know as Iran? "
Obama has already stated that the June 30th deadline for the nuclear agreement with Iran will not be met. Time is running out and he is entertaining dinner guests for Ramadan!
On Friday, Islamic terrorists murdered more than 80 people on three continents, in Tunisia, France and Kuwait. These attacks were by Muslims and in the name of Islam.
This month, the U.S.-based Institute for the Study of War forecast Ramadan was “likely to be violent” as it is a jihadist tradition to increase attacks during the 'holy' month.
Seems that July 9th is now the next deadline set for a nuclear agreement with Iran. I hope Secretary Kerry does not cave.
"On Friday, Islamic terrorists murdered more than 80 people on three continents, in Tunisia, France and Kuwait. These attacks were by Muslims and in the name of Islam." -- I checked that out and that is true.
We are approaching the 4th of July in the states. I am one who would feel uncomfortable gathering with a crowd of spectators to watch fireworks. Who knows what a hate group will do next?
I do not know much about Jihad. "The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic defines the term as "fight, battle; jihad, holy war (against the infidels, as a religious duty)"" - Wikipedia
It's reaching a critical point.
Egypt just declared a state of war against Islamic terrorists:
http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/07/01/d … te-of-war/
The death toll in Egypt now is over 70:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-jets … s-kill-50/
Two days ago: "Egypt prosecutor Hisham Barakat killed in Cairo attack"
I'm getting the picture.
"someone can't just go to some country and claim it to be theirs." Sure they can. It's called winning a war. Countries have done it for centuries. Israel is the only democracy in the region, so it is logical the US would support a form of government like its own. I'd like to see a two state solution, which could happen tomorrow if Israel's neighbors would accept its right to exist. Done.
I'm just waiting for the economy to collapse and to see how Israhell is going to manage surrounding with Arabs without the help of the US. Indeed it has its nuclear weapons but since it is a very small country what will be the impact of an atomic explosion striking Syria for instance? Let me guess... I'm pretty sure that the fallout will reach "its" land. Furthermore, if it launches such what do you think will be the response of its closest neighbors... A thought to ruminate...
On the flip side a Hebrew state existed around Jerusalem before Islam came into existence, but war and might forced them out.
So if an Israeli state was never meant to exist because they were beaten in conflict, then the circular argument is that an Arab or Muslim state in the same area is not meant to exist because they were beaten in conflict.
"no group can gather in others lands and declare their state."
that's a pretty good definition of how most countries come into existence.
Is the Ottoman Empire modern times as it did disintegrate 100 years ago?
Let's talk about this picture gathering presidents. A photographic analysis revealed that the different representatives of governments were in an adjacent street simulating their participation when they took the picture. Typical from those cowards.
After analysis of the event it was found that it was orchestrated by experts, meaning with a military background, the thesis was either it was perpetrated by the French government, either the US that didn't appreciate the fact that Merckel and Hollande decided to diminish the sanctions against Russia because it impacted their elites' wallets.
As for the bloody Palestinian girl, her picture used to represent me on this platform until hubpages decided that it was inappropriate because it could hurt sensitive souls. Poor them, the same ones who vote Bush, Obama or maybe Clinton to bomb Iraqis, Libyans, Afghans, Somalians, Palestinians, Ukrainians, Yemenis... They don't want to see the suffering they are causing then don't support it. It is said that American boots are in Spain and are aiming at Algeria now...
My apologies. I mistook this for a discussion. Once the name-calling begins, I have other things to do.
Again, I am no expert on the history of Israel, but haven't the borders of Israel expanded because the surrounding countries like Egypt, Jordan and Syria all invaded Israel in an attempt to wipe out the country and lost?
If they had won what do you think would have happened to the innocent people within Israel?
in regards to to the image, wouldn't a map of Pakistan be more appropriate?
Fab democracy- go to another country and claim it as yours. Might I suggest you research the term 'democracy' and fully understand it.
@HollieT meaning of democracy is based on people power, don't quite see how that has anything to do with going to another country and claiming it.
Athens the birthplace of democracy went out and conquered
@mk I know even less about the history of the Indian continent than I do Israel, but I would guess the death toll from the creation of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh is greater.
as to countries created when one religion gathers in someones homeland and proclaims it there's - most countries in South and Central America (Spain & Portugal), USA, Canada, (France and England) Australia (England and Netherlands), England (Angles, Jutes, Saxons) and so on
15% Muslim population in India, 96% in Pakistan
How many millions of people were forced to move due to the religious borders imposed during the partition of the Indian subcontinent? a Muslim state placed on land owned in part by non-Muslims, and Hindu state formed on land owned in part by Muslims previously
But in 1948 a two state solution was offered, and broadly accepted by Jews and rejected by Arabs. The two state solution would have required migration just as the Partition did, but instead several wars followed, and so death followed and Israeli territory grew.
If it had been accepted then maybe no one would now lament it, just as you say they don't lament the Partition.
(PS you were the one who wasn't interested in the history but only in the modern)
(PPS you say no one regrets the Partition, but there was a documentary a few years ago about families on both sides of the border devastated by the loss of their historical family lands)
I'm just debating with you, I wouldn't like it at all, but Israel exists, and has existed for 100 years.
If we are talking about humanity, what would you do with the millions of people who live in Israel, and I would now assume virtually none alive when the country was created. Do you evict all of them from their home?
Throwing people out of their homes, claiming their land and then kettling the victims in an open air prison is hardly democratic. And persecuting a people because of their choice of govt. is hardly democratic either. It's the reverse.
Yeah, that's certainly what Jordan did in 1948 when it invaded Israel and occupied land west of the Jordan River in the Jewish Homeland. But, Israel took it back in 1967. In 1994, Jordan signed a peace treaty with Israel, relinquished all claims to any land west of the Jordan River, and revoked Jordanian citizenship from Arabs living in Israel. However, property owned by Jews who were forced to flea from their homes east of the Jordan River was never returned and compensation was never given. Even so, Jordan has honored its Peace Treaty.
The map is from my Hub 'Israel/Palestine Conflict Questions from Pakistan.'
Israel regained the Gaza Strip from Egyptian occupation in 1967 and tried to give it back to Egypt in the 1979 Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty. Egypt wouldn't take it. Egypt doesn't want it and Israel doesn't want it. It's been a cesspool for thousands of years and even the people living there don't want to live there. (Gaza did much better under Israeli control than it ever did under British control.)
Too bad for the people of Gaza. When Israel withdrew, they voted Hamas into power and have suffered the consequences ever since. So much for their form of 'democracy.'
As a nature lover it is sad to me that the beautiful beaches are becoming a disaster zone at the hands of the Hamas.
"Baha al-Agha of the Gaza Environment Quality Authority said about 100,000 cubic metres of untreated waste water are being pumped into the Gaza shore daily." -- israelandstuff . com
You've got your facts wrong. It is Pakistan who deliberately murdered millions of innocent children, not Israel.
I wanted to see it myself so I went to YouTube and found a news video that says the same thing, plus footage.
That's exactly how it is. They are poisoning the ocean and destroying the fish population, while at the same time many Gazans are dependent upon fishing for their incomes and food source.
But it gets worse. These are actual photos of raw sewage running down the streets where children walk to school in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip:
You'll find the same thing in the streets of Karachi, Pakistan:
http://www.demotix.com/news/3777437/kar … ia-3777370
That must be unbearable coupled with the heat wave in Karachi.
Heat related deaths since June 20th hit 1,232.
According to the Sinhd health director general's report it hit 1,219.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-4 … ng-victims
This is very sad news.
They are ruining the land and causing serious health problems to the population.
“The Palestinians refuse to build sewage treatment plants, despite there being a $500 million international Donor Fund available for the building of sewage treatment plants.”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Artic … ZMNlRuqooJ
"Pollution caused by raw sewage and rising seawater infiltration makes 90 percent of Gaza’s water unfit for human consumption.
"And 25 percent of illnesses in Gaza are either directly or indirectly caused by unclean water." (from my Hub).
The Independent State of the Gaza Strip spends its money on weapons and attacking Israel rather than taking care of its own people.
It's the same story in Pakistan where "Estimates indicate that each year, more than three million Pakistanis become infected with waterborne diseases."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_sup … n_Pakistan
Gaza has always been a disgusting place, except when it was ruled by Israel. It was a cesspool under Ottoman, British and Egyptian rule. Israel cleaned up the mess once, but Gaza is on its own now and see what filth they live in! Not even animals soil their own nests!
I don't know why you come on this forum and lie about what Israel does. Israel has been attacked by over 12,000 missiles launched from Gaza and responds militarily. What Gaza does is terrorism; what Israel does is self defense. What Pakistan does is state-sponsored terrorism, as well, and it has slaughtered millions of innocent people. Israel defends, protects and cares for its citizens (including Muslims and Christians). Pakistan allows the slaughter of people of minority religions in its country.
You don't know what goes on in Israel. Your government won't even allow you to visit Israel, your Internet is censored and so is your press. Have you ever wondered why so many Pakistanis leave Pakistan and go to live in countries with a predominantly Christian population? That should tell you something.
The question should of been: Who do you support? and why..? It is very hard and unfair for people to support something that they have little knowledge of, I bet that if someone will ask you which sport team you support you will have the explanation of why.. It is very unfortunate but in order to get to the right answer you should spend some time living there to understand the harsh reality that people live in every single day!
Generalizing people who have a view and opinion of something does not negate their ability to understand the finer points and reality of the situation. I don't have to experience cancer to learn all the intricacies of it's devastation. Studying history and actions by the participants on both sides of the issues can go a long way in understanding the reality of what the ones affected are experiencing.
It is a shame that some take the position of authority over others because they are experiencing something others neither care to partake of or wish to support. If Israel is to survive it should do so on its own. Using the US and other countries for their bidding only drags them into their unshaking and aggressive plans for the region.
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