jump to last post 1-50 of 94 discussions (1084 posts)

DEBATE: Islam is a Peaceful Religion.

  1. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
    Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago

    Look Islam is a peaceful religion. Our every act in our daily lives reflects one thing and that is to worship one God. This is the same God for everyone (as we believe), we don't have a separate God to everyone else. Now no God is going to promote "hatred this is something that humans have invented. What ISIS is doing is not Islamic, and they are not Muslims. Even though they claim to represent Islam, they are not. Our lives are based around the spiritual worshiping of God and promoting and doing good. What Isis is doing is pure evil, this is not Islam. I have heard people say that Muslims are waiting for some sort of call that will tell us to all form a union and go on a mass killing onslaught. How rubbish are these claims, we are not in waiting for any call of the sort. Only call we are waiting for is that of the final day when all will end by God not humans.
    People are also asking why aren't "moderates" (I don't like the terms moderates or extremists as it assumes definate certain qualities of a person or community, we are just Muslims, who worship one God, yes there are different denomination but our common link is one god), speaking up. Well people are speaking up however it never gets represented by the media, there is so much interfaith work going on too but it never gets talked about. Majority of Muslims and  the muslim world are against against Isis, this should be enough for people to understand our allegiance. For those who go to these countries, they are being swept under the propaganda that ISIS feeds people and in most cases these are good people and when they go to these countries they realise the mistake they have made and want to return. What has happened to trusting someone on their word that they are truly reformed. Do you think a terrorist will try gain entry via this means. They would often use violence and manipulation to get in like the what happened on 9/11.

    1. mk-globetrotter profile image60
      mk-globetrotterposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
        Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Thank you very much Mk-globetrotter am from Sydney Australia. I hope this blessed month brings much needed peace and prosperity to the world we need it so much

  2. Onusonus profile image86
    Onusonusposted 17 months ago

    Moderate Islam is a myth. Here are some actual facts about Islam and the so called non extremist majority.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

  3. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
    Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago

    I don't understand why people are getting so heated. Calm down people. Spreading hatred is what the militants want us to do we are buying into their rhetoric.

    Let me remind you guys that in the 17th century Islam ruled most of Europe, the education, the art and science that emancipated from there is amazing. Most mathematical strategies used today were discovered by Muslims.

    Today due to the militarization Islam has become a puppet to the very things in condems. Unfortunately corruption, dictatorship and hunger for power has tainted the religion. But let you say this clearly this does not represent the beautiful religion.

    Islam is not anti-modernisation in fact it is pro mondernisation. We don't oppress women, if this was the case why would I be writing and working. Like I said in my previous posts, for us our daily live revolves around worshiping one God. So if a Muslim women covers herself she is performing an act or worship, if a Muslim pray its an act of worship. This is not oppression or terrorism it is worship, to the one god who created us.

    In saying this, globally Islam has been oppressed and marginalised. Look at what is happening to the Rohinga people in Mynmar (formerly Burma). These people were the traditional owners of the land and have been forced of their own land by Budhist extremist, the oppression and suffering is scaring. Secondly lets not forget what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. When the same thing happened to the Jewish people by Hitler the world came to its aid, for the Muslims no one comes. They say that Israel has a right to protect its self. Let me ask you, who gave them the space for sanctuary? In all Western countries Muslims are living in fear of crimes of hate. In Australia there has been numerous racial attacks on trains and on the streets you can feel Islamaphobia. It is disgusting...

    This is the truth I urge people to go and truly understand the religion before you go out and blatantly attack it. Go to a local mosque and talk to an actual Muslim don't depend on anti-Islamic websites for your knowledge.

    The reason why Muslims will not tolerate any condemnation of the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is because he was the messenger of the word of God. We hold him with great admiration. He was not a paedophile, he gave women, children and people of colour rights in pagan Arabia times. He liberated the world. He was uneducated but when the angel gabrieal spoke to him he was able to write. This is a miracle act. His knowledge, wisdom and manners can never be duplicated, it is a known fact that God made the soul of Muhammed before he made the soul of Adam, that's how special he is to us.
    I'm sorry for ranting so much but the truth needs to be told..

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      "So if a Muslim women covers herself she is performing an act or worship,"

      From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1782188.stm in 2002:
      "Saudi officials have criticised a US decision to lift its requirement that female staff serving in Saudi Arabia must wear the traditional Muslim body garment, the abaya, when off base.

      There must be no exceptions in enforcing the Islamic dress code in Saudi streets. No one of any nationality is exempt in the eyes of religion

      Saudi cleric
      They said the decision flouted Islamic law. They said they would not allow US servicewomen to appear in public without the head-to-toe robe." (bolding added)

      From http://wwrn.org/articles/6361/?&place=saudi-arabia

      "RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudis voiced outrage on Wednesday at a U.S. decision to let American servicewomen doff the flowing black robes they previously had to wear outside U.S. military bases in the conservative Muslim kingdom.

      ``That means that they will be breaking our laws and that they are looking for trouble,'' said a Saudi businessman who asked not to be named.

      In deference to Muslim sensitivities, the U.S. military had required women to wear the ``abayah'' robe off base since American forces were sent to Saudi Arabia in the 1990-91 Gulf crisis."

      This seems to contraindicate that all covered Muslim women are praying: Islamic law (from the Saudi cleric) requires all women, Muslim or not, to be covered, praying or not.  This is also called "mistreatment of women", by the way.

      1. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
        Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Do you see my point that dictatoship has taken over religious requirements! !!

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          No.  They say they worship the same thing you do - can't see that you have any right to claim otherwise. 

          Plus, as  far as my limited knowledge of the area goes, religion has always ruled it, at least as long as it has been Islamic.  The religion IS the government.

          1. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
            Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Look religiously women cover up as a act of worship. This is coming into play with culture.  Saudi is a conservative country that insists on conservative traditions. I personally don't believe in forcing anyone to behave and ware anything but they are conservative nation like many middle eastern nations. Islam does not teach us to force anyone, but religious fulfilment comes from within not external. So I stand by words they forcing which is not right

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              No, they cover up because it is the law.  If they don't they are punished.

              Yes, Saudi is old fashioned, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a religious law for women and one that men do not need to obey.  It's called "control", and control by religious forces, which is what is under discussion.

              I understand that you stand by words, but they are YOUR words and not the words of Islam in general or in specific areas.  It is always interesting to me to find religious believers, of any faith, that declare that anyone not believing as they do are not of the faith even though millions of examples plainly show the opposite.  Ego?  Maybe, as it would certainly take a large ego to decide that a single person knows all there is to know about what god wants.

          2. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
            Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I've never denied the fact that they are a Islamic Country. But am saying the form they are practicing is extreme which originates culturally as well as Islamically. I have every right stand up for my religion. I'm not saying I know all
            But I know better than you regarding my religion

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              So you do (know better than I).  I entered this thread partially because of my ignorance, hoping to learn more about the religion as a whole.

              What I see, however, is exactly what I see in the Christianity I'm more familiar with.  People claiming that no one else is a true believer because they don't believe the same thing.  Unending claims that only the speaker knows the right way to worship; everyone else is mistaken and cannot be considered a true Christian/Muslim.  And finally a continual denial that their chosen religion is not the peaches and cream they would like to think it is.  Any dirt in the mix is cultural, it is from incorrect interpretation, it is from non-believers - it is anything but the religion itself even when history plainly shows differently.

              Zafirah, the Muslims of the middle east have been mistreating and killing each other since long before I was born.  It is plain that it is a religion of violence; that until that propensity and acceptance of killing is erased from the religion and exchanged for tolerance of others it will remain so.  That there are Muslims that think differently is encouraging - it is past time Islam evolved into something more civilized - but those people are not nearly numerous enough (yet) to control or stop the believers in the old ways.  Small inroads are being made but it is not yet enough.

        2. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          With all due respect, the religion has proven time and again that it is not peaceful except under extreme circumstances. You don't have to blow up the Twin Towers to be violent. And you don't have to live in a country under sharia law to be abused by the religion. 

          We see incidents all over the world, not excluding free countries, of women being considered property and punished severely (sometimes killed in 'honor killings') and those who practice the religion defend the acts. Women, by modern standards, have a pretty crappy life. They are considered so problematic that they have to be covered from head to toe. It appears to those on the outside that men have the problem and can't accept that they do and the women are making excuses for those male inadequacies. They are condoning the violence.

          I've heard Muslims point out that women in Christianity were once expected to cover their heads. 'Cover their glory' as it is put. But, Christianity has pretty much come to understand that those were the words of a man. The guy even admitted, when he wrote them, that this was his opinion and he had no divine revelation concerning the matter.

          We see people willing to spew violent words, if not violent acts, toward other human beings because they believe someone was disrespected. It doesn't matter to me what esteem Mohammed is held by another because I don't expect any one else to respect those I hold in esteem. But those within Islam don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of live and let live. We see people murdered, and an entire religion supporting those acts, when a cartoon is written which has a picture of Mohammed. Think about it. Christians worship God Incarnate, or the son of God depending on how they interpret their scriptures. Do you see anyone, in the free world, killing other people when there is a caricature of Jesus? Why is that? It's not a lack of respect. It's an ability to maintain perspective.

          Many Muslims will condemn violent terrorist acts, but many others will point out that these people were 'driven' to it by the disrespect of their religion. They claim they wouldn't resort to such violence yet they do understand on some levels how others did. You don't see much of that within Christianity in the free world. I won't say that there isn't the odd voice making that claim but the majority are calling those voices out with disgust and outrage. Why is that, in your opinion?

          I don't mean to disrespect your religion. I give whatever honor to the name of Allah that I give to any other name humanity has assigned to God. However, Islam makes it very clear they worship a man and that is very problematic. It is difficult to reason with those who insist on not reasoning but defending the manner humanity reasoned in the middle of the desert 1400 years ago. There is much in Mohammed's writings that disgust the modern mind. As we find in the writings of any individual who attempted to rule humanity back then.

          We've seen, time and again, the horror of groups beginning to follow people who claim to speak for God. Jonestown, Waco, etc. We know the dangers of violent and radical behavior patterns created when one human gives another human carte blanc control of their conscience. When they follow blindly. You can't be unable to understand how this is exactly what Islam expects of its adherents.

  4. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
    Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago

    I just had one more though;

    Many people are stating that in recent times Christianity hasn't been tainted and you never hear of Christian extremism.
    Well in Australia recently we heard that there was child sexual abuse occurring in many children's homes before the 1900s and 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s up until as recently as the 70s. This is in our life our time.
    Secondly I heard only this morning of an incident in the States of an white supremacist young person entering a predominantly coloured church with the aim of shooting as many people as he could. Thank God he was stopped. I think this incident shows that no religion is full proof of extremism. You feed the fire enough fuel and it will burn. The same goes for extremism in any religion, you feed enough propaganda and you will create a fire that you alone cannot extinguish. How was this young person radicalised? How did Christianity come into play in all of this? Well people use certain texts, scenarios, ego and a will to do evil and you have your fire. The same can be done in any religious circumstance.

    I hope this brings some clarity to the discussion.

    1. janesix profile image59
      janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      "Many people are stating that in recent times Christianity hasn't been tainted and you never hear of Christian extremism. "

      Really? Where?

      "Well in Australia recently we heard that there was child sexual abuse occurring in many children's homes before the 1900s and 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s up until as recently as the 70s. This is in our life our time."

      What does that have to do with Christianity?

      "Secondly I heard only this morning of an incident in the States of an white supremacist young person entering a predominantly coloured church with the aim of shooting as many people as he could. Thank God he was stopped. I think this incident shows that no religion is full proof of extremism. You feed the fire enough fuel and it will burn. The same goes for extremism in any religion, you feed enough propaganda and you will create a fire that you alone cannot extinguish. How was this young person radicalised? How did Christianity come into play in all of this? Well people use certain texts, scenarios, ego and a will to do evil and you have your fire. The same can be done in any religious circumstance."

      That was ANTI_Christian and probably racist sentiment, not Christian extremism.

      I'm sure there are Christian extremists, but you need to use better examples.

      1. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
        Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Sexual abuse done by Christian priests and  this person was a neo-narcisits who christians my dear

        1. janesix profile image59
          janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          "Sexual abuse done by Christian priests"

          Not an example of religious extremism. Disgusting criminal acts, yes.

          "and  this person was a neo-narcisits who christians my dear"

          If it was Christian extremism, he would have shot up anyone but Christians.

          Like I said, you need better examples.

          1. Zafirah Akbar profile image81
            Zafirah Akbarposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            He did kill colored Christians.

  5. mrpopo profile image87
    mrpopoposted 17 months ago

    Unless Islam is code word for Jainism, then no, it is not a religion of peace.

    This reminds me of a bit of hilarity from a fellow Hubber (can't remember who it was, but he was always funny) which I had stored on a doc file:

    "Qur'an:9:5     "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

    I have studied this verse intently and see no evidence of violence or conflict in it at all.

    The term 'fight and kill' is VERY vague can be taken out of context if not understood in its proper light.

    The term take them 'captive and harass them' is a common technique that I often deploy during foreplay with the wife.

    Similarly, "lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."  is a typical ploy used in the bar scene.  When I was single, the fellows and I would have a few shots of whiskey at the bar, and then 'lie in wait until last call and ambush the ladies for their numbers because all is fair in love and war""

  6. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    The UK is a Christian country. Its government is made up of largely Christians and the prime minister is avowedly Christian.

    Its many policies and practices are unchristian, even to the extent that people die needlessly because of them.

    Nobody has ever suggested that because people die under this government and we are a Christian country that Christianity is to blame for these deaths.

  7. Moshka profile image60
    Moshkaposted 17 months ago

    Islam is not simply a violent religion, it is the predominant source of violence in the world today. It begins with their false prophet Muhammad who used the gullibility of his followers to embark on a military conquest to take over the world. That was their goal from the beginning and that is the goal today. It is called a caliphate.

    One of the major controversies of Islamic's today was to build a giant mosque near the world trade center after it was destroyed by Islamic extremists. This would be like Americans asking to erect a statue of President Truman at ground zero in Hiroshima. It is devoid of common sense. And to add insult to injury they originally wanted to name the mosque after the one in Cordoba Spain. That is historically the pinnacle of an Islamic conquest that occurred in Europe in the 700's. And today they wish the same thing to be erected after a massive victory against Americans.

    Why? Because they hate freedom, and their ways are contrary to the precepts of America.
    They believe in laws being handed from the top down through false clerics who implement the barbarism of sharia. Whereas the laws of America are of the people, by the people, and for the people. 
    It is that reason that free elections are unacceptable in the most oppressive of Islamic countries. The ones who most strictly follow Islamic law. In 1492 Columbus risked sailing off the edge of the Earth to avoid traveling through those countries and we should avoid them at all costs as well.
    America needs to leave them to their own devices and let them kill each other, rather than spending the lives of our own sons to bring them into the modern world. They don't want it. They only want death to the infidel.

  8. Moshka profile image60
    Moshkaposted 17 months ago

    It will always be difficult to convince educated people that Islam is peaceful when the Koran dictates otherwise. And you cannot fault the people who follow through violence. They are the ones who are actually reading it and applying its precepts to the real world.

    1. janesix profile image59
      janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Yes you can fault them. No one has to do something just because a book tells them to.

      1. Moshka profile image60
        Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Try telling that to the terrorists.

  9. mrpopo profile image87
    mrpopoposted 17 months ago

    I agree, but unfortunately the reply button disappears for me after a certain length in the thread. Perhaps it'll work from here.

    I note that your link completely disregards the punishments prescribed for apostasy in the Sahih al-Bukhari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Hadith). I'll review it in full when I have the time, but already it's missing half of the equation.

    There are also two common quotes in the Qur'an used to justify punishment for blasphemy:

    The only punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. This shall he a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement. Except those who repent before you overpower them; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    —Qur'an, [Quran 5:33–34]

    Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment. Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).
    —Qur'an, [Quran 33:57–61]

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Neither justify the death penalty for blasphemy, in fact they don't even mention it at all.

      1. mrpopo profile image87
        mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        You'll have to take that up with the people who are using these passages as justification for the death penalty. That would include Ayatollahs. Good luck lecturing them about their own religion.

        Some possible explanations:

        The first passage: "mischief through the land" and "corruption" in the land (in the previous verse) could be interpreted as references to blasphemy.

        The second passage: "This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers.  It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do.  If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations." - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran … olence.htm

        Even if they're not referring to blasphemy, there's still the minor issue of the death penalty for apostasy. That and the fact that these passages are not peaceful no matter which way you slice it.

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          There are many passages in the bible which could not, under any circumstances, be described as peaceful and many more are often interpreted as invitations to violence.
          I believe the KKK believed themselves to be acting in a Christian manner.

          1. mrpopo profile image87
            mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Do you really think constantly bringing up Christianity's violence is going to somehow absolve Islam of theirs?

            Just a reminder, the topic is about whether Islam is peaceful or not. If we were having a discussion about vipers being venomous, a counterpoint would not be to point to a rattlesnake and say "yeah, well rattlesnakes are venomous too!"

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Not at all but it does show up many Christians as hypocrites.

              1. Moshka profile image60
                Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Today Christians are devising new ways to kill dissidents. Drowning, decapitation, tying bombs around peoples necks.
                https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CILn2AvUcAAUgr6.jpg

                Just kidding, they're Muslims. Of course.

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  So! show me where in the Quran it says that believers should blow up other Muslims?

                  1. John Holden profile image61
                    John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this
                  2. Moshka profile image60
                    Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " 

                    This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. 

                    Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." 

                    This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished.

                    Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

                    Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."

                    Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while.  Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."   

                    This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam.  It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do.

                    Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." 

                    The root word of "Jihad" is used here.  The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

                  3. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    "Shortly after the prophet of Islam had died, some Arab tribes found his death an opportunity to declare their apostasy from the Islamic faith, as they had been forcibly converted to Islam a few years earlier when Muhammad gave them the choice between converting, leaving the Arab peninsula, or being killed - based on the Quranic verses 1-5 from Surah Al Tawba. Abu Bakr the closest companion of Muhammad and the first to succeed him in ruling the peninsula, declared war on those tribes and applied the death sentence that Muhammad had set for punishing apostates:

                    "Sahih Bukhari Book 88 hadith 5: 'Whoever changed his religion [Islam], then kill him', a punishment mentioned several times in all six books of hadith without exception.

                    "What is more interesting, at that same time, some of these tribes did not leave Islam – however, they refused to pay the charity 'Zakat' to the new Caliph as they understood it as a tax only payable to Muhammad. Even though they identified themselves as Muslims, Abu Bakr considered that an act of apostasy and declared the war against them as well.

                    "The rationale behind his decision is explained in Sahih Bukhari Book 88 hadith 7:

                    "When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, `Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Messenger said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me, unless (he does something for which he receives legal punishment) justly, and his account will be with Allah?' 'Abu Bakr said, By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between prayers and Zakat as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's Orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid [young goat] they used to pay to Allah's Messenger, I would fight with them for withholding it.' `Umar said, 'By Allah: It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right.'     

                    "To better understand the context, here is the hadith that Umar was referring to in his short debate with Abu Bakr. Sahih Bukhari Book 8 hadith 44:

                    “Allah's Messenger said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'

                    "In addition to the complete denial of freedom of conscience that Muhammad had established by first forcing Arabs to convert, and then punishing the apostates, Abu Bakr and Umar had confirmed by this war the broad meaning of apostasy: It is not even enough for one to declare they are a Muslim to be granted safety within the Islamic state, the refusal to pay the charity or even the failure to pray is considered an act of apostasy deserving capital punishment.

                    "There are other hadiths that permit the killing of those who would identify themselves as Muslims but do not conform to the teachings. I chose specifically this one from Sahih Muslim Book 12 Hadith 199:

                    'I heard the Messenger of Allah as saying: There would arise at the end of the age a people who would be young in age and immature in thought, but they would talk (in such a manner) as if their words are the best among the creatures. They would recite the Qur'an, but it would not go beyond their throats, and they would pass through the religion as an arrow goes through the prey. So when you meet them, kill them, for in their killing you would get a reward with Allah on the Day of Judgement.'

                    "This hadith is so dangerously ambiguous to the point that I have heard from both sides (the so called 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Muslims) referring to it to describe the other group! "

                    There's a lot more here: http://www.shariawatch.org.uk/articles/ … Ymh4huqooI

  10. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    "Islam is the breeder of the world's terrorists and that is a fact which cannot be disproven."

    For most of my life I've lived in the shadow of Irish terrorism (supported by many in the USA incidentally).
    I have no direct experience of Islamic terrorism.

    1. Writer Fox profile image80
      Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      I know that the IRA is a problem where you live, but I don't know much about that organization and it seems to only be operating in the UK.  Is that right?

      Islamic terrorists, on the other hand, seem to operate everywhere, including in your country:

      2003 5 January: Wood Green ricin plot, where police arrested six Algerian men accused of manufacturing ricin to use for a poison attack on the London underground. No poison was found,and all men were acquitted of all terror charges, except for Kamel Bourgass who stabbed four police officers during his arrest in Manchester several days later. He was convicted of the murder of the officer he killed (the others he stabbed survived). He was also convicted of plotting to poison members of the public with ricin and other poisons. Two of the suspects in the plot were subsequently convicted of possessing false passports.

      2004 30 March: Seven men arrested in West Sussex in possession of 600 kg of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, as part of Operation Crevice. Operation Crevice was a raid launched by Metropolitan and local police in England on the morning of 30 March 2004. It was in response to a report indicating cells of terrorists of Pakistani origin, operating in the Thames Valley, Sussex, Surrey and Bedfordshire areas, the source of which was said to be an interception of an instruction sent from Al-Qaeda leaders in Pakistan to militants in Britain. The operation resulted in five men being found guilty in April 2007 of conspiring to cause explosions likely to endanger life.

      2004 3 August: Fourteen men arrested, but only eight charged in relation to the 2004 Financial buildings plot following the leak of the identity of an Al-Qaeda double-agent. The men possessed detailed plans for attacking financial buildings in the US, but no actual bomb-making equipment. Their leader, Dhiren Barot, pleaded guilty at his trial on 12 October 2006, and was imprisoned for life. Barot, Mohammed Naveed Bhatti, Abdul Aziz Jalil, Omar Abdul Rehman, Junade Feroze, Zia-ul-Haq, Qaisar Shaffi, and Nadeem Tarmohammed, were handed various charges of conspiracy to murder; conspiracy to commit a public nuisance by the use of radioactive materials, toxic gases, chemicals and or explosives; and possessing a document or record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism. Barot was seen as the leader of the group, identified as the individual called "Britani" who "Osama bin Laden had sent to the United States 'to case potential economic and Jewish targets in New York City' for possible attack."

      2005 7 July: The 7 July 2005 London bombings conducted by four separate Islamist extremist suicide bombers, killing 56 people and injuring 700.

      2005 21 July: The 21 July 2005 London bombings, also conducted by four would-be suicide bombers on the public transport, whose bombs failed to detonate. The perpetrators were Muktar Ibrahim, 29, Yassin Omar, 26, Ramzi Mohammed, 25, and Hussain Osman, 28, were found guilty of conspiracy to murder. The four attempted bombers were each sentenced to life imprisonment, with a minimum of 40 years' imprisonment.

      2005 22 December: Abu Bakr Mansha, described by his barrister as an "utter incompetent", was accused of planning to murder a British soldier who had served in the Iraq War, and convicted under the Terrorism Act.

      2006 10 August: The 2006 transatlantic aircraft plot to blow up 10 planes flying from Heathrow saw the arrest of 24 people from their homes in Britain, chaos at the airports as security measures were put in place and numerous high-level statements from US and UK officials. 8 people were put on trial, and 3 found guilty of conspiracy to murder. It was shown at their trial how bottles of liquid could be made into effective bombs. Since this incident, carriage of liquids in hand luggage on aircraft has been restricted to very small amounts. Rashid Rauf, suspected to have been the link between the UK plotters and Pakistan, escaped to Pakistan where he was arrested, but escaped again on his way to an extradition hearing. It was reported that he was killed in a US airstrike in North Waziristan in November 2008.

      2006 23 August: The 2006 Cheetham Hill terrorism arrests, where four men were arrested in the Manchester vicinity over the course of a month, and charged with financing terrorism.  Habib Ahmed, a taxi driver, was accused of collecting information about potential terrorist targets and traveling to Pakistan earlier this year for terrorism training, after the full 28 day period of arrest without charge allowed under the Terrorism Act 2006. In September 2007, an associate of Habib Haji, Raingzieb Ahmed, from Fallowfield, Manchester, who had been in custody in Pakistan, was deported to the UK and arrested on arrival. He was charged with directing a terrorist organization, possessing information which would be useful to a terrorist and possessing a rucksack which contained traces of explosives.

      His wife, Mehreen Haji, was arrested on 19 September and charged with supplying 4,000 pounds to Habib Ahmed "knowing or having reasonable suspicion that it would, or might be used for the purposes of terrorism."

      Police claimed the pair were members of Al-Muhajiroun, the Islamic militant group founded by radical Muslim cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed who was then serving a jail sentence for inciting terrorism.

      2007 1 February: The 2007 Plot to behead a British Muslim soldier: The 2007 plot to behead a British Muslim soldier was undertaken by a group of British Pakistanis in Birmingham, England, planning to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier in order to undermine the morale of the British Army and inhibit its recruitment of Muslims. The leader, Parviz Khan, admitted the plot and was sentenced to life imprisonment, to serve at least 14 years. One associate was found guilty of failing to report the plot and four associates were sentenced to up to seven years for supplying equipment to Pakistan-based militants.

      2007 29 June: 2007 London car bombs. The bombers were Bilal Abdullah, arrested following the 2007 Glasgow airport attack, and Kafeel Ahmed (who died as a result of injuries sustained in the Glasgow attack).

      2007 30 June: 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack perpetrated by Islamist extremists.

      2008 22 May: 2008 Exeter attempted bombing by an Islamist extremist, injuring only the perpetrator.

      On 15 November 2011 West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit arrested four people at their homes who were from Sparkhill Birmingham, on suspicion of conducting terrorist offences. The four men appeared in court in Westminster London on 19 November 2011 charged with terrorism offences. They were named as Khobaib Hussain, Ishaaq Hussain and Shahid Kasam Khan, all 19, and Naweed Mahmood Ali, 24. They were charged with fundraising for terrorist purposes and for travelling to Pakistan for terrorist training.

      2012 June: Five Muslims plotted to bomb an English Defence League rally in Dewsbury but arrived late and were arrested when returning to Birmingham. A sixth was also convicted.

      2013 April: As part of Operation Pitsford 11 Muslims are jailed for a plotting terror attack involving suicide Bombers.

      2013 22 May: A British soldier, Lee Rigby, was murdered in an attack in Woolwich by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, two Islamist extremists armed with a handgun and a number of bladed implements. Both men were sentenced to life imprisonment, with Adebolajo given a whole life order and Adebowale ordered to serve at least 45 years.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t … at_Britain

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Fine, but I don't know what you are trying to prove with this list of mainly "plotting" or "planning" acts of terrorism.
        They are Muslim, that is not in dispute. The are acting on instruction from the Quran, that is ridiculous!

        1. Writer Fox profile image80
          Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          All Muslims don't agree with the teachings of Islamic terrorists.  Of course not!  But the fact that so many do and that they believe this is 'authentic' Islam cannot be ignored. 

          The pity is that more Muslims don't speak out publicly against them.  They are afraid.  Here's a video by one Muslim who is not afraid and has risked his life to speak out:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XUub1no1qw

          The world doesn't hear many voices like that.  So, Islam becomes a religion of terrorism in the minds of most of the non-Muslim world.

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            No, the pity is that the media ignores the many good Muslims that speak out against those using their religion as a shield for acts of terror.

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              "You jump back and forth between what Muslims do with regards to terrorism and then inclusively to Islam as the source. That is like taking the mob as the corrupting influence on Italians and then saying they are mobsters because of being Italian. The two could not be farther from the truth. Terrorists who identify themselves as Muslims do so to validate their violence and horrific behavior. They use corrupt interpretations of Islam and the Koran to recruit and brainwash others to their way of thinking. When we tie the two together they in effect have accomplished their task on a higher level. That Muslims do not unite against the rotten few is how terrorism works. It silences as well as controls those who do not wish to be hurt."

              Couldn't agree more rhamson.

              ETA, I didn't actually reply to my own post!

          2. rhamson profile image75
            rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            You jump back and forth between what Muslims do with regards to terrorism and then inclusively to Islam as the source. That is like taking the mob as the corrupting influence on Italians and then saying they are mobsters because of being Italian. The two could not be farther from the truth. Terrorists who identify themselves as Muslims do so to validate their violence and horrific behavior. They use corrupt interpretations of Islam and the Koran to recruit and brainwash others to their way of thinking. When we tie the two together they in effect have accomplished their task on a higher level. That Muslims do not unite against the rotten few is how terrorism works. It silences as well as controls those who do not wish to be hurt.

  11. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    This just in:  Shocking new videos released showing Islamic terrorists murdering their captures:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … laces.html

    Just when you think you have seen the worst, they have found new and creative ways to torture and murder.

    Oh, and in honor the 'holy' Ramadan Muslim holiday, they are offering a Yazidi sex slave for memorizing verses of the Koran.

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      http://www.salon.com/2015/04/07/6_moder … s_partner/

      Hm, no time for more at the moment, have to go out.

  12. dpercept profile image60
    dperceptposted 17 months ago

    My honest opinion:

    Many conceive Islam to be a religion of violence and something to be immediately associated with terrorism.  The reality in my opinion, Islamic individuals that I have met have been some of the most kind and most respectful individuals I have ever met.  Regardless of prejudices or anything else of the kind, I think these things actually matter.  The extremists behind the terror that we hear about constantly are not to be seen as exemplary for the image of Islam as we do not do this Christian extremists in the United States, isn't that correct?

    Christian extremism isn't as covered in news coverage because to be quite honest, Christianity is far more main stream and causing the same kind of damage to the image of Christianity as has been done to Islam just isn't possible. 

    As anecdotal evidence, before 9/11, I had neighbors that were the kindest and least capable of engaging in violence as they were just an ordinary family and they even brought my family and I food just for being neighbors.  After 9/11, they received harassing calls, being accused of being terrorists despite not being from the same region as the terrorists were and they were forced to move homes, and I never saw them again.  I believe even some of the other neighbors committed harassment against them.

    Islamic individuals are just as capable of practicing the same morals as anyone else of any christian denomination.  The bias against Islam is just some naive justification for some peoples who need to make their own religions seem more relevant.

    Again this is purely subjective, i'd like to hear someone's opinion on mine!  I hope my non belief didn't make an appearance in my text as I'm trying to be the least bias as I can.

  13. Benjamin Whitin profile image43
    Benjamin Whitinposted 17 months ago

    i like how this debate has developed over time. Lol some of you have renewed my hope in humanity good job!

  14. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    Islamic terrorists just open-fired on tourists in a Tunisian resort on the Mediterranean coast.

    At least 27 people have been killed.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … itons.html

    I hate this!

    1. rhamson profile image75
      rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      You really let your hate obscure your reasoning. Terrorists claiming to be Islamic committed unspeakable crimes against innocent people is what happened.

      Islams view on it: " "Nor take life -- which Allaah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)." [Qur'an 17:33]

      If you continue in this vein let me ask you a question. If the bombing and killing that is going on with ISIS or any of the other terrorist organizations and is claiming to be following the Qur'an, why don't the rest of the Islamic countries in the region declare war on the US and it's allies?

      1. mrpopo profile image87
        mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        "Terrorists claiming to be Islamic committed unspeakable crimes against innocent people is what happened."

        Ah, the ol' "no true Muslim" fallacy. Or is it Scotsman?

        "Islams view on it: " "Nor take life -- which Allaah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)." [Qur'an 17:33]"

        I find it baffling that after you had agreed that ISIS' interpretation of the Qu'ran is plausible, you then go on to say that the actions perpetrated by ISIS are un-Islamic.

        "So, for instance, when it says in the Qur’an (8:12), “Smite the necks of the infidels,” some people may read that metaphorically, but it’s always tempting to read it literally. In fact, a line like that fairly cries out for a literal reading. Of course, some Muslims believe that such violent passages must be read in their historical context. But it seems even more natural to assume that the words of God apply for all time. So it’s no accident that the Islamic State has made a cottage industry of decapitation.
        In my view, one really can’t blame the religious dogmatist for resorting to literalism once he has accepted the claim that a given book is the perfect word of the Creator of the universe, because nowhere in these books does God counsel a metaphorical or otherwise loose interpretation of His words. In fact, many scriptures contain passages that explicitly forbid that kind of reading.
        But, like you, I don’t take a position on there being one true interpretation of scripture. It’s just that there are plausible readings and less so, and to my eye the Islamic State is giving a very plausible reading of the Qur’an and the hadīth. That’s a terrible problem, because one can’t stand up and say that this behavior is un-Islamic." - Sam Harris

        "If you continue in this vein let me ask you a question. If the bombing and killing that is going on with ISIS or any of the other terrorist organizations and is claiming to be following the Qur'an, why don't the rest of the Islamic countries in the region declare war on the US and it's allies?"

        There's a good idea - attack the most militarized nation in the world and its Western allies. I wonder why they wouldn't do it.

        1. rhamson profile image75
          rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          "I find it baffling that after you had agreed that ISIS' interpretation of the Qu'ran is plausible, you then go on to say that the actions perpetrated by ISIS are un-Islamic."

          I guess you would as it was not what I said. I said nothing of it's plausibility by ISIS. You keep making Islam and terrorism the same. A criminal mind can make that interpretation but why aren't the whole of Islam behind what you say. Because they are not the same.

          Literalism is ridiculous as it lessens the value of what is being said. In a court of law you might be right to make that argument but not with scripture. This is the salient problem with organized religion as some view things as they literally understand them to be and judge everything the learn from that as the "real" truth.


          "There's a good idea - attack the most militarized nation in the world and its Western allies. I wonder why they wouldn't do it."

          Precisely because they do not have the support or numbers of the huge majority of peaceful Muslims that will not participate in their criminal actions.

          1. mrpopo profile image87
            mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            "I guess you would as it was not what I said."

            When I quoted an excerpt by Sam Harris explaining that ISIS' interpretation of the Qu'ran is plausible, you said "I can agree with this." Forgive me for taking your words at face value. I suppose "smite the necks of the infidels" is just vivid imagery and is not meant to be taken literally - but seriously, can you blame the "extremists" for "misinterpreting" this passage? They're not privy to your mental gymnastics.

            "You keep making Islam and terrorism the same."

            My position is more nuanced than that. ISIS' interpretation of the Qu'ran is plausible. The fact that their interpretation calls for savagery, warfare and other behaviour that you classify as terrorism is only natural; that's their interpretation, after all. As I have already deferred to Harris' position, there are other interpretations of Islam that don't advocate terrorism and might even condemn it, but they are likely not as plausible as ISIS' interpretation. Who are the true Muslims? The ones following a less-than plausible interpretation, or the ones following it word for word?

            "Precisely because they do not have the support or numbers of the huge majority of peaceful Muslims that will not participate in their criminal actions."

            If you think the main reason for not engaging in a war with the West is due to a numbers disadvantage, as opposed to being flatly outmatched in every other aspect, then you must not understand a lot about warfare. ISIS has scored a number of decisive victories despite being vastly outnumbered.

            1. rhamson profile image75
              rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              You brought up the numbers not me. The reason why ISIS does not have a frontal assault with the West is because they are a terrorist organization and exploit whatever means they can to prosecute their cause. All out conventional or nuclear war is not an option of theirs with their resources. Maybe you don't understand a few things. Did you ever think of that. Islam is different from terrorism by its very nature. Islam forbids the killing of innocent people. You can pervert, rationalize or take out of context your way to whatever reasoning you wish but that is the truth

              1. mrpopo profile image87
                mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                "You brought up the numbers not me."

                Where did I even mention the numbers of anybody, let alone ISIS supporters? I can see why there's so much confusion when you're capable of making such wacky conclusions from straightforward text, which is why you're somehow concluding that "smite the necks of the infidels" is not barbaric, terrorist behaviour.

                "The reason why ISIS does not have a frontal assault with the West is because they are a terrorist organization and exploit whatever means they can to prosecute their cause. All out conventional or nuclear war is not an option of theirs with their resources."

                This would be true of most Islamic countries given how they are lacking in relevant military resources compared to the United States alone. The few that would be capable of engaging in such warfare would still lose handily. The answer to your question "why don't the rest of the Islamic countries in the region declare war on the U.S. and it's allies?" is because they'd be interested in self-preservation. And no, it wouldn't be just because of a numbers disadvantage.

                "Maybe you don't understand a few things. Did you ever think of that."

                There are a lot of things I don't understand, one of which being how you came up with "numbers of ISIS supporters" from a statement which contained neither "numbers" nor any reference to "ISIS supporters."

                "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people."

                And who is defined as "innocent" by Islam? You know Nazism also forbade the killing of innocent people. The problem was they considered anyone that wasn't "Aryan" to be guilty and needing of purging. It's a similar problem with Islam since much of the Qu'ran considers apostates, blasphemers and even non-Muslims in general to be guilty of crimes against Allah. Their definition of "innocence" is perverted.

                "You can pervert, rationalize or take out of context your way to whatever reasoning you wish but that is the truth"

                I'll take "Projection" for $200, Alex.

                1. rhamson profile image75
                  rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Well I knew you would eventually get around to a Nazi reference. That is where arguments wind up when you run out of BS to throw at it. If you cannot understand even your own meanings I cannot help you. Your insistence of profiling a religion for what a few (compared to the millions of peaceful adherents to Islam) have done is ludicrous at best and convenient for lack of thought. Your bias and attitude is a contributing reason why there will never be peace in the region.

                  1. mrpopo profile image87
                    mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    "Well I knew you would eventually get around to a Nazi reference."

                    And I knew you would irrationally latch onto the mere mention of "Nazi" as if that invalidates any and all arguments presented. Do you honestly think that an analogy illustrating the concept that certain ideologies can modify the definition of "innocence" is BS? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and actually dismantle my argument instead of handwaving "oh, he said Nazi, it must be bantha poo doo"?

                    "That is where arguments wind up when you run out of BS to throw at it."

                    This is rich. In my very second comment to you I made an analogy that interpreting Jainism as violence is like interpreting Hitler's saga against the Jews to be peaceful and forgiving. You had no issue with it then because we were talking about Jains, but when a similar analogy is made about ISIS all of a sudden it's BS.

                    Quite frankly there is a lot we can learn from ideological groups like the Nazis, but I don't expect someone like you to undertake such an intellectually rigorous journey. That takes thinking, and thinking is hard. But if it makes you feel better, feel free to replace "Nazi" with any ideological group that utilized similar mechanisms of control and punishment. Maybe "orcs" or "the Galactic Empire" or an Orwellian villain or something.

                    Or, you can continue with your poorly contrived cop-out, your choice. It already speaks volumes.

                    "If you cannot understand even your own meanings I cannot help you."

                    I understand my meanings just fine, Mr. Strawman. The reason you can't help me is because *you* don't understand my meanings and follow it up with irrelevant nonsense.

                    I'll reiterate. The simple answer to your original question is because even if every Islamic country made an alliance to wage war against the United States (like in your hypothetical question), they'd lose. Even if they were all aligned with ISIS they would still probably not wage war directly out of self-preservation, making your hypothetical question moot.

                    "Your insistence of profiling a religion for what a few (compared to the millions of peaceful adherents to Islam) have done is ludicrous at best and convenient for lack of thought."

                    I made no such profiling. All I did was come up with two conclusions:

                    1) ISIS' interpretation of the Qu'ran is plausible
                    2) Islam not a peaceful religion

                    There are a good number of reasons to suspect that these aren't the thoughts of a "few," based on respectable polling data, but since you're having trouble with 1 and 2 as it is I won't even begin to initiate that discussion.

                    "Your bias and attitude is a contributing reason why there will never be peace in the region."

                    Yeah, meany people on the internets are a contributing cause for violence in the Middle East. Okay buddy, save some Koolaid for the loonie bin.

  15. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    "A man has been decapitated and dozens more injured at a gas product factory in France by terrorists carrying Islamist banners."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … rance.html

    No country is safe.

  16. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    June 22: An American convert to Islam was arrested in North Carolina, U.S.A.  He was planning a terrorist attack to kill as many as 1,000 Americans.
    http://www.wyff4.com/news/nc-teen-plann … s/33712110

    "Number of Islamic Terror-Related Arrests in the U.S. in 2015 Surpasses Previous Two Years Combined"
    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/06/25/nu … -combined/

  17. Castlepaloma profile image22
    Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago

    When I was younger I hitch-hike through most of middle eastern countries and most of America. America was more dangerious to travel. Would not go back to some of the middle east places because of what the US has done to them.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Or because, simply by existing, American shows the middle eastern people a better way of life.  A way that they, too, want but their true rulers (Islamic VIP's) refuse them, making you a giant target when travelling.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Have you ever looked at the before and after photo of Iraq from 20 years ago. Then tell me they are better off.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Have you ever looked at the before and after of the fields of Kuwait?  Then tell me they would be better off without our "interference".

          Not that it has anything to do with what I said, unless you're telling me that the man (and woman) in the street over there likes living in squalor and does not envy our standard of living.  They see it (and the freedom), they want it, and the powers that be see their control slipping away every day.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image22
            Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Reasons America attacks Iraq.

            1. 9/11-FALSE
            2. Weapons of mass destruction-False
            3. Iraq attack on kuwait, there was alot there than what meets the American.news, it was low numbers kills, short war and alot more Iraqi's killed again.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              And yet we now know there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - our soldiers were injured by them.  How is it, then, that the same false story is still being circulated?

              Which has nothing to do with the mind set of the Iraqi people wanting a better lifestyle for themselves.  You're trying to confuse the reasons for the US presence there with how the people view their life under religious rule.  They are separate, unconnected, issues.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                I've been to Iraq, have you? They were happy, until the American invasion, the American warlords are happy in their own insane way.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  You visited Iraq, and found the Kurds to be happy?  What was left of them anyway?

                  That seems difficult to believe.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                    Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Saddam's the monster the US created has been long gone, Let browns kill each other, America always dose it bigger.

  18. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12496283.jpg

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Yes.  That's pretty much the crux of the problem.

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I thought it summed it up pretty well.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          It does.  Do we pretend that the religion does not contain a great many violent followers, or accept that many Muslims find their prophet and/or god promoting violence and control.  While we may abhor the violence, and wish it weren't there, is it smart to pretend that it is not being done in the name of Allah?

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Yes it is when the acts we condemn involve less than 10% of all Muslims.
            You are telling me that nine out of ten Muslims are wrong when they believe that their religion is peaceful!

            Perhaps you'd like to point me in the direction of the bit of the Quran where Allah tells his followers to go out and randomly kill other Muslims?

            1. mrpopo profile image87
              mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              "You are telling me that nine out of ten Muslims are wrong when they believe that their religion is peaceful!"

              I'd love to see that evidence. But yes, they would be wrong. You yourself agreed to this earlier in our discussion when we established that they are to punish blasphemers and apostates according to their text.

              "Perhaps you'd like to point me in the direction of the bit of the Quran where Allah tells his followers to go out and randomly kill other Muslims?"

              The part about blasphemers, remember? The mosque was Shiite, ISIS are Sunni. Not exactly random.

              1. John Holden profile image61
                John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Don't much like the source but here is one

                http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security … cts-please

                here's the one I found first
                https://encounteringislam.org/misconceptions#5

                I throw this one in because it is interesting, that's all

                http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … close.html

                1. mrpopo profile image87
                  mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  The first link is basically one person saying it's an extremist rate of 15-25% based on intelligence services around the world and another person saying it's less than 1%. It doesn't explain how they got to these figures.

                  The second is referring to a Gallup poll but the link to it is broken.

                  In any case the question is how many Muslims believe their religion is peaceful, not how many are extremists. If 9/10 believe it's peaceful, they're wrong. We've already established that.

                  1. John Holden profile image61
                    John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Oh sorry I didn't realise that all information had to be supplied by committee.

                    I must have slept through the part where we established that 9/10 are wrong to believe that their religion is peaceful.All I saw were a couple of quotes from the new testament coupled to a couple from the Quran.

  19. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago
    1. HollieT profile image89
      HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      I see WriterFox has refrained from posting alarmist scare mongering and opted instead for a nice, balanced piece.

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I agree that it was a completely balanced piece.  But it does leave out one thing that, judging from your previous postings on the forum about sexual preferences, you'll be interested to know:

        Sharia, which is the most orthodox form of Islamic law, can be evoked to issue a death penalty for practicing homosexuals in Muslim countries such as Iran, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia. And, in 2011, when the Human Rights Council of the United Nations passed its first-ever resolution recognizing LGBTQ rights, it gained full support from the Americas and Europe, but was almost unanimously voted against by countries with a Muslim majority.

        Here's something else you should read:
        http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/8473.htm

        1. HollieT profile image89
          HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Erm, sexual preferences? That's interesting. Can you provide a link? Not sure, correct me if I'm wrong, that I've been that candid.

          And, btw,  a balanced piece usually reflects the perspectives on both sides. But, whatever, your education is your responsibility.

  20. 61
    health2uposted 17 months ago

    Islam is the greatest religion

  21. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    "The one glaring fact concerning the persecution of approximately 100 million Christians around the world today is that the overwhelming majority of it is being committed by Muslims of all races, nationalities, languages, and socio-political circumstances.

    Islamic extremism is the main source of persecution in 40 of the top 50 countries -- that is, 80 percent of the nations where Christians are persecuted are Muslim.

    "As for the top ten worst countries persecuting Christians, nine of them are Muslim-majority -- that is, 90 percent of nations where Christians experience extreme persecution are Muslim."
    – from an article written by Egyptian born Raymond Ibrahim

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5 … _tradition

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12498446.jpg

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12498447.jpg

  22. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    Writer Fox
    you are part of the problem.
    Be part of the solution.

    http://thelogicalindian.com/story-feed/ … -together/

    1. HollieT profile image89
      HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      +1

    2. Writer Fox profile image80
      Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      What a lie.  No, I'm not part of the problem.  Muslims ARE the problem.  How can you possibly believe that acts of 'Islamic terrorism' are carried out by anyone other than Muslims? 

      "Jihadists should make Ramadan a time of 'calamity for the infidels ... Shi'ites and apostate Muslims,' Al-Adnani said in a recent audio message. 'Muslims everywhere, we congratulate you over the arrival of the holy month. Be keen to conquer in this holy month and to become exposed to martyrdom.'"
      http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/06/26 … media-say/

      You constantly try to deflect the problem away from the guilt of the perpetrators. That's camel-milk logic and it demonstrates a complete lack of concern for the innocent people getting slaughtered daily in the name of Islam. 

      http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12498478.jpg

      http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12498479.jpg

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Thank you for confirming my comment though it wasn't necessary.

        1. Writer Fox profile image80
          Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          I didn't confirm your comment; I said it was a lie.  Why is it that you cannot address the issue here that Islam is used to support the murderous acts of Muslims all over the world and why do you have no concern for the innocent victims of Islamic terrorism? Where is your outrage that a Muslim slaughtered 30 British tourists in Tunisia on Friday?
          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … sacre.html

          Why do you constantly defend the terrorists?

          http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12498505.jpg

          (A demonstrator stands in front of the White House during the White House counter-terror summit holding a sign criticizing President Obama for his refusal to call label violent extremists by their religion.)

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            And where is your acknowledgement of the bravery of the Muslims who protected the tourists as they escorted them back to their hotels, covering them with a human shield.
            Or what about the Muslim on the hotel roof who bombarded the gunman with roof tiles, because he was a Muslim?

            ETA that should of course read that the man on the roof bombarded the gunman because the man on the roof was a Muslim!

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              That Muslims protected tourists from Muslims doing violence in Allah's name means they weren't doing violence in Allah's name?  A strange conclusion...

              1. John Holden profile image61
                John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Er no! But it blows out of the water that all Muslims are terrorists or supporters of terrorism.
                So which Muslims were acting against their religion?

              2. HollieT profile image89
                HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                It means that Muslim or otherwise, they recognise murderers for what they are, murderers. Take a leaf out of the tile throwers book, Wilderness.

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  No no Hollie, you've got that wrong. They are Muslims and therefore must be murderers however many "infidels" they protect.

                  1. HollieT profile image89
                    HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    I stand corrected, John. wink

            2. HollieT profile image89
              HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Now now , John. You must surely know that even non radical Muslims who attempt to defend the defenseless must also be tarred with the same brush? 

              To be fair, Writerfox, if I slated every Jewish citizen or citizen of Israel as a child murderer who merciless slaughtered innocents on a beach or in school playground, the way that you do Muslims, you'd be screaming anti-Semite.

              1. John Holden profile image61
                John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                +1

              2. Writer Fox profile image80
                Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                No, I would not be screaming.  I would simply call you a liar.

                Why do you keep trying to derail this thread?

                "In denying the hard fact that mass terror can indeed be justified according to Islamic texts, they are making terrorism more likely, not less. Just capture the facts, and apply logic. Or is that too much to ask?"
                http://www.thecommentator.com/article/5 … terrorists

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Mass terror can also be justified by Christian texts.

                  1. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Christians don't read their texts the way you do and that is why Christians aren't perpetrating acts of terrorism in the name of Christianity. 

                    Your posts keep trying to deflect the problem of Islamic terrorism away from the undisputed fact that terrorists who commit their acts are doing so in the name of Islam. 

                    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12498547.jpg

                2. HollieT profile image89
                  HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Oh, ok. So Israeli forces did nor execute innocent children. Anywhere. Bloody UN have got it wrong again. Liars.

                  1. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Israeli forces do not execute innocent children.

                    If that is what you want to discuss, start another thread.  This thread is about the religion of Islam, not about the government of Israel.  Stop derailing this thread.

  23. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    "Britain could face a terror strike at anytime, a former Muslim extremist warned, as Prime Minister David Cameron told the public to beware that Britain faces a 'severe terrorist threat.'

    "News of increased police presence first hit the country this weekend at the Armed Forces Day and Pride London, major public events where tens of thousands of people gathered yesterday.

    "It came after an emergency meeting of the COBRA security committee.

    "Security will also be increased during the Wimbledon tennis championship which starts tomorrow, and the second week of which coincides with the 10-year anniversary of the 7/7 attacks in London.

    "July also marks a year since terror group Islamic State (ISIS) declared their caliphate and began their series of terror attacks and brutal murders."
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/587158 … ithin-days

    No other religion in the world is sending terrorists to attack the UK.  Only Islam.

    1. HollieT profile image89
      HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Writerfox, love, if you want to be taken seriously when talking about the Uk with UK citizens, don't cite the Express or the Daily Mail. You'll be laughed at hysterically.

    2. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Catholics!

  24. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    "If every day for the last nine years, one Scientologist, or one Lutheran had been arrested for either planning or carrying out acts of terrorism, the state, the intelligence services, the media and the police would have no doubt long since made a pointed comment or policy statement on the matter.

    "If, for example, 3,000 Scientologists had been arrested for terrorist-related offences in Britain, questions would have been raised at the very highest level of the 'dangers' of that belief and its influence in society.

    "Yet, over 3,000 Muslims have been arrested for terrorism-related offences in Britain since 9-11.

    "They claim it is always a 'tiny minority' of Muslims who are to blame who are never representative of their community.

    "A Home Office report from last year showed that 92 percent of all convicted terrorists currently in jail in Britain were Muslim."

    http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/ba-muslim-te … ave-happen

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Where do you get your figures from?

      Best I can find is 1471 over that period with 56% of those not charged.

      Stop scaremongering.

      And don't just don't ever post links to the fascist British national Party or you'll be left with even less credibility than the Mail and the Telegraph will get you.

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        What difference does it make where the facts are published.  Facts are facts. Every reputable news source in the world is reporting the scourge of Islamic terrorism. 

        "Earlier this week, the spokesman for the Islamic State, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, greeted the group’s followers for Ramadan, telling them that acts during the Muslim holy month earned greater rewards in heaven.

        “'Muslims, embark and hasten toward jihad,' Mr. Adnani said in an audio message.'O mujahedeen [Islamic jihadists who make 'holy war in the name of Islam] everywhere, rush and go to make Ramadan a month of disasters for the infidels.'”
        http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/world … .html?_r=0

        "Tony Abbott [Australia Prime Minister] says Islamic State 'coming after us' after spate of terror attacks overseas.

        "They have a crazy ideology which is designed at creating fear and hatred in our society."

        "[They are] just awful and a reminder that this is a risk posed anywhere on Earth," he said.

        "That's why we're working so hard to put all the resources in that we can to defeat these evil bastards at their source."
        http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-27/a … ks/6577786

        Why do you continue to deny and deflect that terrorism is carried out in the name of Islam when the leaders of countries (Western democracies and Islamic dictatorships) say that it is?

        http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12498938.jpg

        http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12498939.jpg

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Can't you read? The BNP do not deal in facts, they deal in fear.

    2. HollieT profile image89
      HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Writerfox, you've just cited a page from the British National Party. You really have no idea, do you?

      These people are also Neo-Nazis. Think about that.

  25. PrettyPanther profile image86
    PrettyPantherposted 17 months ago

    I am no scholarly expert on religions, so I can't say every religion has had its era of violence and repression to varying degrees, but certainly pretty much every major religion has done its share of killing, repressing, and brutalizing in the name of its God(s).  I don't even know why people bother to engage in a discussion about one religion being worse than another.  They're all pretty bad in one way or another.

    I wish I would live long enough to see the end of using an invisible being to justify one's abhorrent behaviors.  Religion gives people an excuse to be bullies and murderers.  They would find a way without religion, but at least we wouldn't have good but rudderless people following them.

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      +1

    2. HollieT profile image89
      HollieTposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      And another +1

    3. gmwilliams profile image86
      gmwilliamsposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000-religion has been used as a crutch for far too long.  Yes, all religions used violence and oppression.

      1. gmwilliams profile image86
        gmwilliamsposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I meant many, not all, religions at some time practiced violence and oppression.  The issue is not Islam but more extreme, fanatical, and fundamentalist Muslims who disregard the rights of others.  It is not only Muslims but more extreme, fanatical, and fundamentalist Christians who disregard the rights of others, particularly women and members of the LGBT community.  Such Christians are against women's reproductive rights in terms of contraception and abortion and are vehemently against advancements and equality in the LGBT community, particularly in terms of same sex marriage(thankfully the Supreme Court passed a law making same sex marriage legal in the United States).  However, there are retrogressive elements in Denton, Texas who REFUSE to accept same sex marriage.  So to say Islam is not a religion of peace is fallacious; it ISN'T Islam but the more EXTREME ELEMENTS of that religion as it is in many religions.

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Well said!

        2. Writer Fox profile image80
          Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          I haven't heard that fundamentalist Christians are actually killing and maiming people in America or anywhere else in the world. When did this happen?  Does it happen daily like Islamic terrorism?

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Muslim persecution by Christians has been happening since 1096.

  26. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad

    http://newsrescue.com/letter-to-all-chr … z3ePd5rYW1

    1. Writer Fox profile image80
      Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      "Since the 19th century, several aspects of the Ashtiname, notably the list of witnesses, have been questioned by scholars."

      Since Muhammad could not write, he obviously could not have written the letter.  The writ, allegedly ratified by Muhammad, was for the protection of St. Catherine's monastery in Egypt. The monks of the monastery claim that Muhammad frequently visited them and the letter was used to prevent the monastery's destruction by Islamic forces.  There is no collaborating evidence that Muhammad ever visited the monastery, let alone 'frequently.'

      The contents of the letter do not appear in the Quran, and most Muslims are unaware of its existence. In any event, it only pertained to the monks of the order of St. Catherine's monastery.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        And your point is. . . .?

        My point is that that though some Muslims use their religion as an excuse for violence they are not actually supported by their religion.
        That the actions of many can not be predicated on the actions of the few.

    2. fpherj48 profile image80
      fpherj48posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Absolutely AMAZING...a letter from Mohammed??   The Moron was totally illiterate!  Could not read nor write!!   He wrote a letter?  OK
      Or did one of his 12 year old wives take dictation from the disgusting pedophile??  LOL

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Nope.  Girls weren't allowed to be educated.  (That still is the case in much of the Muslim world, especially in Pakistan.)

        By the way, his wife Aisha was six-years-old. In America, that's called kidnapping, child sexual abuse and forcible rape. In Muslim countries, that's called 'Islam.'

      2. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I just found that out this morning from a video that Mohammed could not read or write.   He had to have someone read to him and write for him.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1966&v=Ekf-wJaD4z4

        Here is the webpage I found that video on.
        http://www.bibleprophecyandtruth.com/notes/islam

        http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12506037_f248.jpg

        1. Writer Fox profile image80
          Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          That's true.  Muhammad was illiterate and he could not even proofread the Koran to see if everything he dictated was recorded correctly.

      3. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Fifteen hundred or so years ago most of the worlds population was illiterate  and dependent on scholars to do their reading and writing for them.

  27. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    British Prime Minister David Cameron, interviewed on BBC radio today, said:

    "Islamic terrorists based in Iraq and Syria are planning specific attacks against Britain. In fact, the Islamic State poses an existential threat to the West ... This is going to be the struggle of our generation and we have to fight it with everything that we can ... We have to deal with this appalling, radical narrative that is taking over the minds of so many young people in our own country."

    The BBC interviewer said "It is literally a war for our existence against their existence. That's what it means – 'existential threat.'

    Here's the whole interview:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33307742

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06 … ef=uk-news

      Islamic State no more represents Islam than the British National Party represents Britain.

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        It's not just the Islamic State  which says Islam supports terrorism; many Muslims in the UK also support and conduct acts of Islamic terrorism.

        UK Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said today in a BBC interview: "The actual threat level has been set to severe and it's been at that level since last Autumn … We've been making an arrest a day over the last year."

        These are people who quote passages from the Quran while they carry out their murderous acts.

        http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33307740

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Not a mention of Muslims or any other group! No mention of an arrest every day either.
          Who are these many Muslims in the UK conducting terrorist attacks?

          1. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Are you just deliberately lying or do you have a hearing problem? Do you think people won't listen to the video for themselves? The quote is at 2:00 into the video on that link and Police Commissioner Mark Rowley said:
            "We've been making an arrest a day over the last year."

            And that is up from "nearly one arrest a day" which is what he said in a BBC interview on February 8, 2015, after video was released by the Islamist militants depicting the captured Jordanian pilot in a cage, being burned alive.

            "It’s very different. We’re making 35 per cent more arrests now than we used to in counter-terrorism. It’s nearly one arrest a day. That comes out of the fact that we’re not just dealing with a classic terrorist organization organizing plots across the world. We’re dealing with a group that’s trying to create what you might call a corrupt cult of people, of followers who will act in their name.

            "They’re trying to attract misfits, criminals and the vulnerable; and it’s those people, not part of a bigger organization, who may act of their own volition. That’s the challenge for us – is to have good sight of them and be able to intervene with them."

            Here is the transcript of the February interview:
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/p … rowley.pdf

            As one countermeasure, Prime Minister Essid of Tunisia plans, within a week, to close down 80 mosques inciting violence.

            "UK Prime Minister David Cameron believes that Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with religion. We know that because he’s always banging on about it. Perhaps he should talk to his counterpart in Tunisia. The first thing Habib Essid did after last Friday’s Sousse massacre of (mostly British) innocents was close the doors of 80 mosques.

            "He knows Islam is a convoluted religion with a host of competing interpretations but that doesn’t mean it should not be challenged. What a pity our own limp political class is less inclined to call out the evil of Islamic terrorism and close down its wellspring in radicalized mosques wherever they are found."
            http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur … -religion/

            Why are 80 mosques in Tunisia inciting violence?  Because their religious leaders believe that is what Islam requires.  That is why the doctrine is preached in places of Islamic worship rather than in political gatherings.

            Are the terrorists in the UK Muslims?  According to the “Statistics on Terrorism Arrests and Outcomes Great Britain”, Home Office, 26 November 2009, "Almost 92 per cent of terrorist-related prisoners describe themselves as Muslim."

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              "Almost 92%" is a totally meaningless statistic.

              92% of how many?

              1. Writer Fox profile image80
                Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Seriously?  OK.  That means 92 out of every 100. roll
                https://www.mathsisfun.com/percentage.html

                1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                  Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  If you were to compare Muslim countries per capita with the USA

                  USA  would win in being so badas_ USA  hands down in amount of Prisons, Wars, Police, Judges, Prosecutors, Assault, Rape, Robbery, Theft, Fraud, Drugs, Juvenile delinquency, divorces, natural environmental destruction, National debt and Private debt

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                    Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Consider this...
                    USA has 4% of the World's population 25% of the world's prison and half Of the World's War budget. Is it not time that America cleans up the own mess instead making messes world wide

                2. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  I can see why you are so easily taken in by the fear mongers.
                  92% of 10 is an entirely inconsequential number, 92% of one million is a staggeringly large number.

                  1. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    According to the Justice Ministry, the number of Muslim prisoners in England and Wales rose from 5,502 prisoners in 2002 to 12,225 December 2014.

                    Justice Minister Shailesh Vara also said 22,000 foreign offenders have been deported over the last four years.

                    "An astonishing 42% of ­convicts at the prison near March, Cambs, ­follow the Islamic faith."

                    Muslims comprise 4% of the total population of England and Wales.

  28. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    "Federal authorities have warned local law enforcement officials across the country about a heightened concern involving possible terror attacks targeting the July 4th holiday, a U.S. law enforcement official said.

    "While there was no specific or credible threat of attack, the official said the intelligence bulletin prepared by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI alerted local colleagues to the ongoing threats posed by the Islamic State and other homegrown extremists. The official was not authorized to comment publicly.

    "The bulletins are frequently issued in advance of major U.S. holidays out of an abundance of caution and concern that operatives may exploit the timing to generate greater attention.

    "The warning comes as federal investigators have worked to disrupt a number of Islamic State-inspired plots, including a planned assault earlier this month on police officers in Boston. In that case, authorities fatally shot Usaamah Rahim as he allegedly planned to attack police with military-style knives."
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli … d-n2018766

    The nine biggest terrorists groups threatening America are all acting in the name of Islam:
    AL-QAEDA IN THE ISLAMIC MAGHREB
    ISLAMIC STATE OF IRAQ AND SYRIA (ISIS, ISIL, IS)
    AL-QAEDA IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA
    BOKO HARAM
    AL SHABAAB
    KHORASAN GROUP
    AL NUSRA
    JEMAAH ISLAMIYAH
    TEHRIK-I-TALIBAN PAKISTAN

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12500430.jpg

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      "Possible" "No specific or credible threat of attack" And yet the big brave Americans run for the hills!

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        The UK is also under high alert for terrorist attacks:
        UK Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said today in a BBC interview: "The actual threat level has been set to severe and it's been at that level since last Autumn … We've been making an arrest a day over the last year."

        Is that 'fear mongering?'  Hardly. 

        The vigilance of security forces thwarted a major terrorist attack at the Armed Forces Day parade in south London on Saturday.

        "The plot to explode a pressure cooker bomb — killing soldiers and bystanders on the route — failed after an IS leader in Syria unwittingly recruited an undercover investigator from the newspaper to carry it out.

        "Junaid Hussain, originally from Birmingham, told the investigator: 'It will be big. We will hit the kuffar (unbelievers) hard InshAllah [Allah will be willing]. Hit their soldiers in their own land. InshAllah. Soldiers that served in Iraq and Afganistan will be present. Jump in the crowd and detonate the bomb.'

        "A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "The police, together with our security partners, remain alert to terrorist threats that may manifest here or where individuals overseas may seek to direct or inspire others to commit attacks in and against the UK.

        "We would also like to reiterate our long-standing advice to remain vigilant and alert."
        http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06 … 77204.html

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Well actually that's exactly what it is!
          How many of those arrests have lead to charges and how many of those charged have been convicted?
          Remember you said yourself that 56% of arrests were dismissed without charge.

          We have a very unpopular government hanging on to power by the skin of their teeth. What better way of suppressing opposition throwing everybody into fear of a terrorist attack!

          https://youtu.be/_4EoXH1ju_0

          Oops, that wasn't Islam!

          1. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I never said that.

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Sorry, one of the links you posted said that. My mistake.

  29. mrpopo profile image87
    mrpopoposted 17 months ago

    According to some in here I am incapable of interpreting religious text unless I believe in it with all of my heart, though the reasons for this cognitive failure are unclear. I am also apparently guilty of blaming all of Islam solely on the actions of ISIS, even though I have mainly utilized religious text as evidence (you know, the thing the religion is based on).

    To kill two birds with one stone, since I am being arbitrarily deemed as not qualified to speak (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_ … uthorities) I'm going to have to defer to an authority who is actually deeply involved in the religion and who is not a member of ISIS:

    https://youtu.be/pQzuFrMRA3M?t=395

    Dr. Mukadan, what is the penalty for apostasy?

    "If it's an Islamic country, then the Sharia is very clear. Apostasy is dealt with the death penalty." Dr. Mukadan.

    But who is Dr. Mukadan?

    "Dr Mohamed Mukadam is currently working as a Regional Advisor for a group of Jeddah schools involved in a government project promoting Giftedness and Creativity. Prior to this he was the principal of Madani High School, which he helped to establish in 2007. He also served as the principal of the Leicester Islamic Academy for 10 years. Dr Mukadam was also chair the Association of Muslim Schools UK for a number of years since 2000. He is also one of the founding directors of the Bridge Schools Inspectorate. He was a lecturer at Westhill College, University of Birmingham. His doctoral thesis at the University of Birmingham (1998) was on the spiritual and moral development of Muslim pupils in state schools. In 2008-09 he was a member of the Contextualising Islam steering committee based at the University of Cambridge. He has participated in many conferences and over the years he has been invited many times by mainstream British media to discuss matters of education and faith." - http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Mohamed-Mukadam/685953583

    He is not a member of ISIS. He is not a criminal, not a wacko. He is a normal, well educated U.K. civilian who is not currently engaging in any violent activity. He is an avid practitioner and scholar of Islam.

    Would anyone who believes Islam to be peaceful care to explain the following:

    1) how Islam is peaceful if their penalty for apostasy in Islamic countries, based on Sharia, is death
    2) how Dr. Mukadan's interpretation of a key principle in Sharia is flawed

    Looking forward to my edification.

  30. qabirew profile image60
    qabirewposted 17 months ago

    i am very intrigued whenever the muslim-terrorism question arises because we already know that most terrorists and almost all jihads are muslim but as they say "  not all muslims are terrorists." in literal terms that is but those who are not involved in mass slaughter are the ones who harbour, finance ,hide, and thus promote that business of terrorism.

  31. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    Let's get back to the subject of this thread, instead of derailing it to other religions and/or other groups of people, which in no way justifies Islamic terrorism:
    Is Islam is a Peaceful Religion?

    "Islam is at the heart of the Islamic State, and dozens of other Islamic terrorist groups. Take the statement the Islamic State issued on Twitter to justify this slaughter of 38 people at the Tunisian resort town of Sousse.

    "Why were the tourists – mostly British , Belgian and German – killed?
    Because they were in 'dens (of) fornication, vice and apostasy in the city of Sousse' and the 'subjects of states that make up the crusader alliance fighting the state of the caliphate.'

    "They were enemies of Islam, committing sins against Islam, says the Islamic State.
    And this has nothing to do with Islam?

    "For heaven’s sake, we can all read.  'Islam' is in the very title of this terrorist outfit.

    "In fact, the Islamic State regularly quotes the Koran and sacred Surah to justify its every barbarity.

    "Its infamous statement last year ordering Muslims around the world to kill unbelievers quoted holy scripture at least 25 times in support.

    "Those quotations included this, from the Koran: 'Kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.'

    "And this, also from the Koran, justifying the Islamic State’s liking for decapitation: 'He the Exalted said: So when you meet those who disbelieve (in battle), strike (their) necks.’

    "The Research and Fatwa Department of the Islamic State even produced a pamphlet last year quoting the Koran to let its soldiers enslave and rape hundreds of Yazidi women.

    "Scripture  [from the Quran] is similarly quoted by most of the world’s terrorist groups, which share the Koranic view that Mohammed divided the world into two parts — Dar al Islam, where Islamic law rules, and Dar al Harb, the land of war, where Muslims live at best only in a state of truce.

    "Such teachings seem so likely to license violence that it can’t be a coincidence that 19 of the 20 terrorist groups proscribed by the Australian Government are explicitly Muslim.

    "It can’t be a coincidence that all 20 men convicted of terrorism here [in Australia] are Muslim, too. Nor can it be a coincidence that Muslims are involved in most of the world’s terrorist conflicts, including in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Kuwait, Kenya, Somalia, Nigeria, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Britain, France, Denmark, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Israel, Indonesia, China and the United States.

    "Clive Kessler, emeritus professor of sociology and anthropology at the University of NSW, has studied Islam for 50 years and is gloomy. He says most mainstream Muslims don’t speak out because they actually 'share a common mindset and set of attitudes' — that Islam must triumph — even if they don’t accept the radicals’ means.

    "Anooshe Mushtaq, a Canberra-based Muslim adviser on Islamic radicalization says we must face the truth — groups like the Islamic State have a lot to do with Islam.  'The propaganda is laden with religious symbolism and hidden meanings, drawing on teachings from the Koran and cultural traditions dating back a thousand years,' she wrote in The Australian.

    "Yes, it’s a voice of Islam speaking. Deal with it, or we’re lost."
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio … 7419023946

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12501564.jpg

  32. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    ""For heaven’s sake, we can all read.  'Islam' is in the very title of this terrorist outfit."

    For heavens sake we can all read "Britain" in the title of the fascist outfit, British National Party.

    1. Castlepaloma profile image22
      Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      I can tell from this thread, americans will not accept they cause more crime, wars and mischeif worldwide than the muslims.

      Like the lone wolf that has to stay with the pack or he will die. Like the Rockman says, people will hear what they want to hear and people will do what they want to do.

      Why don,t you people want to get along, Oh yeh!!! forgot, religion.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image22
        Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        The greed and control, tools religion.
        Like it, or not.

  33. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago

    Moshka,
    you actually posted a link to a Christian beheading a Muslim!

    It's a shame you don't actually think about the links that you flood the thread with.
    20% isn't a majority.
    one in four isn't a majority.
    Neither is 31% or one third!
    And the same goes for most of the rest of the links that you posted!

    Many are also taken out of context, like the telegraph article which actually says
    "The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity"

    As for my contention that the hatred of Islam makes matters worse, not better, later in the same article
    "Overall, the findings depict a Muslim community becoming more radical and feeling more alienated from mainstream society, even though 91 per cent still say they feel loyal to Britain."

    If it makes you happy copying and pasting long lists, don't let me stop you but don't expect me to take the time to dismantle all of them/

    1. Moshka profile image60
      Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Cherry picking through the statistics does not prove your point John. Try to look over the entire list if you are able. You will unfortunately find something counter to your narrative of a peaceful Islam.
      and yes I found an article of a Christian beheading an Islamist, and you found an article of a guy named Christian who beheaded his grandmother. You are completely demoralized, you are flooded with facts and statistics, and even images, and videos of how these people view their own religion, and still you will not accept the truth.

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I'm completely demoralised says the person who is dependent on lists compiled by Islam haters and has absolutely no personal experience to base his paranoia on.

        1. Moshka profile image60
          Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          How could you possibly know who I know or where I've been? You are projecting John. Your argument must be falling apart at too rapid a pace for you to be able to confront the truth.

          Let me also add that I find it interesting that you think the pew research center is an anti Islamic organization. But as usual Truth seems to fall under that category when you choose to defend that which can not be defended.

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            But it you that is dependent on lists, confront the truth yourself.

            I also suggest that you read more of the links that you posted. None of them offer the sort of evidence you claim. When they appear to, read on and it's often qualified.

            1. Moshka profile image60
              Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              You just asked me for a list!
              When I give it to you you call it hate. Facts and statistics = hate when defending Islam.

  34. Moshka profile image60
    Moshkaposted 17 months ago

    Islamists beheading two women in Syria today. And some crucifixions on the side.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06 … irst-time/

    1. rhamson profile image75
      rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      The criminals really know how to get your attention don't they? Anymore criminal behavior you wish to report disguising itself as Islam?

      1. Moshka profile image60
        Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Feel free to report on any Christians decapitating people or blowing things up for Jesus.

        2015.06.29 (Sanaa, Yemen) - Eight women are among twenty-eight mourners blown up at a Shiite funeral by Religion of Peace rivals.
        2015.06.29 (Cairo, Egypt) - An Islamist bomb blast claims the life of the country's top prosecutor.

        1. rhamson profile image75
          rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          I am not the one making an out of context rant comparing the two. If you want to make a comparison that is even remotely connected how many Christians shoot or kill other Christians against the teachings of Christianity?

        2. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          You, yourself posted a link to a Christian beheading a Muslim!

          1. Moshka profile image60
            Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Yeah, that was like a week ago. Islamists have committed over 100 terror attacks, and nearly 30 suicide bombings since then.

      2. mrpopo profile image87
        mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        "I think ISIS' interpretation of Islam is plausible. But they're still criminals disguising themselves as Islam" - rhamson

        Honesty, thy name is rhamson

        1. rhamson profile image75
          rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          "I think ISIS' interpretation of Islam is plausible. But they're still criminals disguising themselves as Islam"

          You are fixated on this even though I have explained it. For some odd reason you have a memory loss or defect about it. ISIS or any other splinter group in Islam bent on terrorism can and in some cases act as a sanctioned Caliphate. This is a false Caliphate and therefore does not meet the obligations it assumes. So now that you have not "caught" me in a lie can you focus on the subject?

          Is this really your game or do you have an argument?

          1. mrpopo profile image87
            mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            If you have explained this earlier, please quote your relevant post, I must have missed it.

            If you consider ISIS' interpretation to be plausible, then their sanctioned Caliphate would be plausible. Now how are you distinguishing false Caliphates from true ones?

            "So now that you have not "caught" me in a lie can you focus on the subject?"

            You're right, I'll follow your shining example. Like when I asked if Jainism could be interpreted as violence, you didn't then randomly say "Jains have been suffering because of this," as if that has anything to do with my question.

            1. rhamson profile image75
              rhamsonposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              "If you have explained this earlier, please quote your relevant post, I must have missed it."

              I've got an idea, why don't you go back and find it and catch up on whatever else you have missed or misinterpreted.

              "If you consider ISIS' interpretation to be plausible, then their sanctioned Caliphate would be plausible. Now how are you distinguishing false Caliphates from true ones?"

              Plausible (Of a person) skilled at producing persuasive arguments, especially ones intended to deceive: a plausible liar. Do I need to teach you to use a dictionary as well?

              "So now that you have not "caught" me in a lie can you focus on the subject?"

              Their religion was the cause of their suffering. "When the Jaina community was in such a position that it could not augment the number of its members, it was faced with a calamity of severe persecution of its members by the other religionists. After gaining ascendancy the Brahmins reduced the Jainas to the lowest depths of subjection. They threw out the idols in Jaina temples and converted them into Brahmanic ones, destroyed the objects of the cult, deprived the Jainas of all freedom, both religious and civil, banished them from public employment and all positions of trust: in fact, they persecuted them to such an extent that they succeeded in removing nearly all traces of these Jainas in several provinces where formerly they had been most flourishing. Traces of this old hostility between Jainas and Hindus survive in the following Hindu saying, [1]

              Can you please catch up with the conversation now?

              [1] http://www.jainworld.com/book/jainasoci … s/ch9b.asp

              1. mrpopo profile image87
                mrpopoposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                "I've got an idea, why don't you go back and find it and catch up on whatever else you have missed or misinterpreted."

                If I've missed it, and as you say, have a memory defect about it, how do you expect me to find it? Doesn't sound like a wise plan, to entrust a mentally defective individual with the task that he is mentally deficient to do.

                "Plausible (Of a person) skilled at producing persuasive arguments, especially ones intended to deceive: a plausible liar. Do I need to teach you to use a dictionary as well?"

                Yes, I am aware of the definition, which doesn't answer my question. My question was how are you distinguishing between false (but plausible) Caliphates and true Caliphates. In other words, how are you distinguishing between a plausible liar and a truth-teller (hint: evidence). Before lambasting on others' inabilities at reading a dictionary perhaps you should learn how to read yourself.

                "Their religion was the cause of their suffering."

                And yet I wasn't talking about whether or not their religion causes their own suffering. I was talking about if you would consider it equally valid to interpret Jainism as a religion of violence in the same way you equated Islam as being capable of interpreted as peaceful or violent. You then jumped to its sufferings as if that has anything to do with the topic. Remember, you stated "Religion is and always shall be about interpretation." Some interpretations, as you yourself have pointed out, are flawed, so you must be aware that there are correct interpretations, which goes against your initial position.

                Thank you for providing a source though! First time for everything. Irrelevant as it may be, it's a step in the right direction.

  35. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago
    1. Moshka profile image60
      Moshkaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Yeah, I could probably find dozens of web sights that paint Hitler in a good light. Doesn't make it true. But you have your head planted firmly in the sand so keep pretending that there isn't a problem.

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        So you are saying that none of the links I posted are true!
        You really have a problem.

  36. John Holden profile image61
    John Holdenposted 17 months ago
  37. mrpopo profile image87
    mrpopoposted 17 months ago

    So apparently Dr. Muskadan is just "one voice" and doesn't speak for the millions of peaceful Muslims out there, even though he is a peaceful Muslim himself. Despite the fact that he is an influential figure in scholarly interpretation of the Qu'ran and it would be a reasonable assumption that he is not the only one who has that particular interpretation of the Qu'ran, he is still only "one voice."

    Well what do I know? I guess I'll ask more people from a peaceful country, like Norway:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1 … amNetVideo

    "So I would ask you - everyone in the room - how many of you are normal Muslims, you're not extremists, you're not radical, just normal, Sunni Muslims. Please raise your hand.

    *a crowd of 4000 Muslims raises their hands*

    Everybody!

    How many of you agree that men and women should sit separately. Please raise your hand.

    *the same crowd of 4000 Muslims raises their hands*

    Everyone agrees! Everyone, brother and sister. It's not just these radical sects then! Allah Akbar.

    How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Qu'ran and in the Sunnah - whether it is death, whether it is stoning for adultery - whatever it is, if it is from Allah and his messenger, that is the best punishment ever possible for humankind and that is what we should apply in the world. Who agrees with that?

    *unanimous agreement from 4000 some Muslims*

    Allahu Akbar! Are you all radical extremists?

    *a couple of hands remain from a few jokesters*

    So all of you are saying that you are common Muslims, you all go to the different mosques, or is it - are you a specific sect, are you like that? No? Please raise your hand if you like extreme Islam or a sect like that.

    *no hands are raised*

    No one? Allahu Akbar.

    How many of you just go to the normal Sunni mosques, please raise your hands.

    *all hands are raised*

    Allahu Akbar!

    So what's the politicians gonna say now? What is the media gonna say now? That we're all extremists? That we're all radicals? That you need to all of us from this country?

    I don't know what. Allahu Akbar."



    Can anyone explain to me how these 4000 Norwegian Muslims are extremists?

  38. Arfa khan profile image61
    Arfa khanposted 17 months ago

    Islam is a complete religion.... And it spreading day by day....

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Complete in what way?

      1. Arfa khan profile image61
        Arfa khanposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Complete !!! Islam discuss every act of life..... Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) show every act related to every event of life according to Quran..that how to react in any situation..... From birth to death.... Quran is the best guide not for muslim but also for every human being.

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          OK, thanks.

          1. Arfa khan profile image61
            Arfa khanposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Always welcome

  39. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    Islamic militants simultaneously attacked five Egyptian checkpoints in the Sinai Peninsula today, killing 38 Egyptians and wounding at least 50.

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07 … s&_r=0
    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07 … atest.html

    The Islamic State beheaded two women for 'witchcraft and sorcery' yesterday.

    The group "has also killed many women, reportedly burning some Yazidi women alive and stoning others to death. (American hostage Kayla Mueller was also killed while with the group.)" Publicly, the group says that Islam forbids the killing of women and lies about killing innocent women.  Lying to enemies (or perceived enemies) is permitted in Islam. 
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn … or-sorcery

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12503421.png

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12503422.png

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

    Is Islam a religion of peace?

    Tommy Waller, a marine veteran and the legislative outreach director of The Center for Security Policy, spoke about Islam at a black-tie affair at the stately Metropolitan Club of New York on Monday.  He said that Islam itself is the problem, not Islamic terrorism.  He said:

    "The enemy has existed for 1,400 years, at the expense of 270 million lives.  Doctors study medicine but we don’t study something that has brought devastation to nearly the same number of humans as the plague.”
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 … obia-cause

  40. alex35aclll profile image60
    alex35aclllposted 17 months ago

    Love your article, always nice to able to speak out

  41. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    This just in: "Islamic State terrorists have released a video threatening to conquer the independent Palestinian State in the Gaza Strip and overthrow the rule of the Palestinian terror group Hamas.

    In the video released from Syria: "An Isis militant berates the 'tyrants of Hamas for their lack of religious fervor.  Eight years they control the territory, and have yet to enforce one Islamic teaching,' he says.

    "'The rule of sharia [Islamic law] will be implemented in Gaza, in spite of you.'"

    http://europe.newsweek.com/isis-vows-ov … aza-329612

    Too bad about all of those innocent civilians about to be slaughtered in the cross-fire.

    1. fpherj48 profile image80
      fpherj48posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Writer Fox.....All that you print is real, accurate and what the VAST majority of the WORLD knows and understands.  You must not waste your valuable time here, arguing back & forth with blind, deaf, dumb, bloodthirsty savages. 
      They are so completely ignorant and violent, with no respect nor concern for human life, MUCH LESS human rights, you may as well present your facts to a rock.
      What is seen, heard, publicly demonstrated, video-taped, reported and PROVEN simply does not get through to the blatantly ignorant who focus upon their simple minds that have been brainwashed since childhood.
      They need to continue to slaughter one another.  The more the better. 

      They should Stay OUT of our country, which they claim they despise.....and live in their filth, poverty, & pure hatred.  It's their life....they know nothing better.  Only they can tolerate the stench of one another.....but they kill each other anyway. 
      Apparently JH is either one of them or longs to be tortured under Sharia Law... ..the most brutal, insane from of law ever created.  Totally brainless & without morals....all of them.  The extremists want to KILL all infidels.....the moderates (if there is such an animal) want the RADICALS to kill all infidels.  They're all savages at heart.
      It is lunacy to use the term peaceful with the word  Islam.  Mohammed was a violent, murdering, illiterate pedophile.  What can possibly be expected of his followers??  Camel dung!
      Leave this outrageous site as I will immediately. I've read more than can be tolerated. It's poisonous.  All about death, savagery & barbarians.

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Fine, I'll go out tomorrow and tell all the Muslims that I know that they are totally brainless and without morals!
        All that will happen is that I'll lose friends.

        1. fpherj48 profile image80
          fpherj48posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          I pity you if you must resort to ignorant, immoral killers who thrive on bloodshed, beheading, burning humans alive, wiping Jews off the face of the earth.....as "friends."   What kind of human being are any of you?  If you are Not a Muslim....you are an infidel.  If you are an infidel, don't be FOOLISH enough to think you are their friend!!   They'd sooner dice you into pieces as look at you!  They are killers.  They kill their own...women and babies.  You call them "FRIEND?"  Insanity!

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            One of my neighbours has three attractive daughters who go out to work. Their father forgot to kill them at birth!
            He was probably too busy working to remember.
            I had a Muslim landlady. When I was ill she didn't chop me up into little pieces. She neglected to collect rent for longer than I care to admit. I didn't go hungry either.

            Actually, you aren't really worth talking to, you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. I agree, this discussion is a waste of oxygen, you've read your newspapers and watched your TV and know everything there is to know about Islam.

            1. fpherj48 profile image80
              fpherj48posted 17 months ago in reply to this

              In fact I DO know all there is to know about Islam & the mentally unstable followers...and NOT from newspapers or TV!  I have been privy to first hand up close and personal knowledge of these savages.  YOU know nothing.  You only think you do, living in a delusional state.
              I am more informed than you could ever imagine, so cease your garbage!

              1. John Holden profile image61
                John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Yes of course you do dear.

                1. Writer Fox profile image80
                  Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  That's a condescending, chauvinistic remark and it is evidence that you have no logical argument to support Islam as a peaceful religion.

                  Do you live around anyone who can accurately translate Arabic, Urdu, or Farsi for you?  My guess is 'NO.'  And that is why you cannot accurately understand Islam and what Muslim Imams are preaching in their mosques.  You are part of the non-Muslim world duped into believing only what is presented about Islam in English.

                  Let me introduce you to Dr. Mordechai Kedar, a senior lecturer in the Department of Arabic at Bar-Ilan University. He served in the Israel Defense Force [the Israel Army] Military Intelligence for 25 years, specializing in Arab political discourse, Arab mass media, Islamic groups and the Syrian domestic arena. Thoroughly familiar with Arab media in real time, he is frequently interviewed on the various news programs in Israel.

                  Dr. Kedar just released this piece of Islamic news, especially delivered for the Islamic Ramadan holiday now underway:

                  "The Islamic State gave out a placard [it's like a billboard posting] in Jerusalem that warns all Christians to leave the city by the end of Ramadan, or risk being slaughtered like sheep. The placard asks Muslim sympathizers to hand over lists of Christians and their addresses to Islamic State members so as to make the task of finding and killing them easier."

                  What a way to 'celebrate' the Islamic religious holiday: killing Christians!

                  There are only 11,700 Christians in Jerusalem and almost all are Arabs or Armenians (survivors from the Armenian genocide in Turkey). They already live in fear of their Muslim neighbors, and that is just the way Muslims want them to live: in submission to Islam. The word 'Islam' does not mean 'peace.'  It means 'submission' and 'surrender.'

                  The authorities in Israel – who consider it their solemn duty to protect minorities living in Israel – removed the signs, but the message is still being circulated in Jerusalem's Arab neighborhoods and inside mosques.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image22
                    Castlepalomaposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Time to exit from this thread,no solutions will be found. The study of demons from both sides can earn you at max a PHD in BS, P-ile H-igher & D-eeper. The more more you stir it , the more it stinks.

                  2. John Holden profile image61
                    John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Of course it was condescending! Was it more or less condescending than the message that said I had no idea what I was talking about?

                    Your guess is totally wrong. I know people who could translate any of those languages and did at one time have a little Urdu though that's gone.

                    Islamic State is no more Islam that the KKK is Christianity.It is a travesty.

                2. fpherj48 profile image80
                  fpherj48posted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  YES!!!!    I DO, darling!!  Mind your damned manners.  I'm old enough to be your mother.  But if I had been your mother, you wouldn't be so complacent about the greatest threat to the world!.    Wake up!

                  It cannot be such a TRAVESTY to any of them or they would not be silent and shrink with fear.  We would HEAR them loud & clear shouting from the rooftops and DENOUNCING the radicals as the garbage they are.

                  I live only 20 minutes from an entire Muslim Community.....Taught them and counseled them for years.  One on one with their parents!   YOU do not tell me what I know and do not know, whipper snapper!    Ask them about the radicals and they CLAM UP!!   The whole while sending the radicals money.   Snap out of it JH!  The PEACEFUL (?) Muslims...are simply the cowards who wants us dead and gone ...but expect the radicals to do it.
                  THEY say so.......do you need it written in stone before you understand??

                  1. John Holden profile image61
                    John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    You must be ancient!

                  2. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Nope.  He's really old, had his first stroke, drinks Scotch, smokes cigarettes, and his wife left.

      2. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        It's not about convincing JH of anything.  It's about gullible minds who might believe the lies if no one else speak up.

        He lives in Manchester.  You probably don't know about any of this, but there is a group of Islamic terrorists in Manchester whose job it is (yes, they are paid terrorists) to hang out on the Internet on social media, Twitter, forums, etc., and convince people that Islam is peaceful while they are actually trying to recruit more Islamic terrorists.  They also use deception to lure women to leave their families and to join them.

        If you can stomach more dreadful accounts, here are two articles you should read:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/world … 8&_r=2

        http://rt.com/uk/237121-attractive-jihadists-lure-girls

        If you ever notice suspicious activities on the Internet from people in the UK, report the activity anonymously here:
        https://www.gov.uk/report-terrorism

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          And you are the gullible one who believes lies.
          Mind you, in fairness you share in spreading them! Terrorist groups in Manchester paid to troll!

          1. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            That was the evidence presented by the F.B.I. in the New York Times article. He wasn't just paid to troll; he was paid to groom and to recruit. That guy also ran a bomb making factory.
            http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/world … 8&_r=2

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Let#s have a UK source. Not a Russian one or an American one but a UK one.

              1. Writer Fox profile image80
                Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                You don't think the New York Times is a reputable source?

                Well, it is.

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  But it isn't a UK source.
                  Remember the reputable US source saying that Birmingham (UK) was a no go area for whites?

        2. fpherj48 profile image80
          fpherj48posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Writer Fox....I KNOW it is not about convincing JH nor any ONE individual.  I also know there is NO convincing.  They are born, bred, taught, live and breathe & worship DEATH to the infidel.....kill all Christians & Jews, off with their heads, women and children burned alive.  The most violent, savage animals in the Universe. In the name of their Allah?   They are an entire breed of mentally deranged, scum of the earth, less than animals.
          What the HELL makes a UK source superior to any other source??   Because HE lives there???  HILARIOUS!   This discussion is ludicrous!  a waste of oxygen.

  42. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    74 children have been executed by the Islamic terrorist group ISIS for 'crimes' that include refusal to fast for Ramadan.

    "Just this week, two children whose ages were not known were crucified in the Mayadin, Deir Ezzor province in eastern Syria after ISIS accused them of not properly fasting during Ramadan. The children’s bodies, put on public display on crossbars, each bore a sign explaining their violation during the holy month for Muslims that runs June 17 to July 17. With each execution justified by ISIS' medieval interpretation of the Koran, the group is attempting to portray itself as the true practitioners of Islam, say experts.

    "The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child released a report in February, documenting the many horrors ISIS has imposed on children who are Kurdish, Yazidi, Christian and even Muslim. Children – even those who are mentally challenged – are being tortured, crucified, buried alive, used as suicide bombers and sold as sex slaves, the report said."

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07/01 … luding-not

    More than 42 million Muslims support ISIS, according to research by the Clarion Project.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/587 … -terrorism

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      And do you really think that Islam forces children to fast? They don't, children are left to decide when they are ready to fast. Once again, IS does not represent mainstream Islam. Just like the KKK or Westbro Baptist Church does not represent main stream Christianity.

  43. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    A Survation poll commissioned by Sky News in April found that over half of non-Muslim Britons felt Islam was incompatible with British values.

    Under legislation that came into force this week, schools are obliged to have “due regard to the need to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism.”

    Is Islam associated with terrorism?  After a 14-year war on terrorism, more and more people in the UK now think that it is.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho … 68449.html

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre … calisation

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      So? The demonising of Islam is succeeding.

      1. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        "Muhammad’s Demon: He Originally Thought He Was Possessed"
        https://kjvbiblebeliever.wordpress.com/ … possessed/

        1. Muhammad did NOT know if he would go to heaven after death!
        2. Muhammad could not distinguish between a revelation supposedly from God and one from Satan.
        3. Muhammad denied that he could perform miracles.
        4. Muhammad made false prophecies.
        5. Muhammad thought he may have been demon possessed.
        from
        http://radicaltruth.net/index.php/learn … t-muhammad

        1. Writer Fox profile image80
          Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Muhammad never once claimed that his god Allah spoke to him, so he wasn't really a 'prophet' of Allah, which is what he claimed to be.

          Rather, Muhammad heard voices of Jibrīl, who was one of the Jinn Devils.

          The Jinn Devils are mentioned frequently in the Quran.

          "Inscriptions found in Northwestern Arabia seem to indicate the worship of jinn, or at least their tributary status, hundreds of years before Islam. For instance, an inscription from Beth Fasi'el near Palmyra pays tribute to the 'jinnaye', the 'good and rewarding gods.'"

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

          The English word 'Genie' comes from 'jinnaye,' Muhammad's Jinn Devil.
          http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12506126_f1024.jpg

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I thought a genie was just a fairy-tale, something made up. Never did I dream of even thinking that they are demons. "Muhammad's Jinn Devil" 

            Thank you for disillusioning me, Writer Fox.
            It is good to know the truth about things.

  44. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    The Center for Security Policy just released this survey of American Muslims.

    "I believe that violence against those that insult the prophet Muhammad, the Quran, or Islamic faith is sometimes acceptable." 
    29% (832,329) American Muslims agreed with that statement

    "Violence against Americans here in the United States can be justified as part of the global Jihad [holy war]."
    25% (717,525) American Muslims agreed with that statement

    "Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah." (Shariah is the Islamic legal system which includes beheading, flogging and stoning, and which is implemented by ISIS.)
    51% (1,463,751) American Muslims agreed with that statement

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/431704095500 … show-clips

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12506318.jpg

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Few, if any, of the Muslims that I know want Sharia law for criminal cases.
      Civil law is different, like Judaism with Beth Din, they want civil law that does not put them in conflict with their religion.

      1. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        What civil laws are there which would put a Muslim in conflict with their religion?

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Divorce, inheritance, debt to name a few.

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Well, I'm sorry to say they would garner no sympathy from me with that complaint. Two parties can easily agree to terms within the first two which would allow them to abide by their own religion, without going in opposition to law.  Debt, I don't know enough about debt laws to comment. But, I will say that debt is usually between parties of differing belief structures. One belief should not take precedent; to the detriment of another party. Best I can say is they should borrow against Muslims who agree to abide by the terms of their religion.

            Christians and other belief structures have no problem abiding by civil law. Muslims should not get special treatment.

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              So why is Judaism allowed Beth Din?

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Does Beth Din take precedent over the laws of the particular nation; if both parties don't want to abide by it? If so, you have me on that one. If not, it is two people agreeing to abide by the ruling of a particular religion. Maybe, women within Islam recognize the disparity in justice in a divorce situation and like the secular laws too much to abide by the religious ones.

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Neither Beth Din nor Sharia take precedent over the laws of the host nation.
                  With Sharia both parties have to agree for the Sharia laws to apply.
                  There is no less justice in a Muslim divorce than a Christian divorce.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    That would depend on the lawyers.

                    But, let's look at the terms of Islamic divorce and how it affects women. Most of this is taken from Wikipedia so if it is wrong please enlighten me.

                    "In most Islamic states it is generally unacceptable for a divorced woman to live alone (as is usually also the case with unmarried women). In most situations women who find themselves divorced will return to live with their parents or to the household of another close relative."  That's pretty severe by our standards; but,since Muslim women don't have many of the rights we take for granted I guess it would make sense.

                    "The Muslim husband may initiate the divorce process.....there is no waiting period before the husband can remarry. The wife must usually wait three months after the third talaq has been spoken before remarrying (this period is known as iddah)." Interesting that the man is free to move along but the woman is, somehow, punished. This, in the instance of the male initiating the divorce. Seems backwards to me.

                    "Women's right to initiate divorce is very limited compared with that of men. According to shari'a law, there are two reasons a wife may be granted divorce: when she can prove that the husband did not have intercourse with her for more than two months or if the husband does not provide her with what she needs for living such as food and shelter. While men can divorce their spouses easily, women face legal and financial obstacles.[28][29] For example, in many cases the woman must repay her dowry and marriage expenses. In general she also has to forfeit child custody, if the child is older than seven years. Even if she is granted child custody, she has to give it to the father when the child reaches the age of seven." That's quite different from secular laws.

                    "Islamic laws does not entitle the wife to a split of the husband's assets at divorce."  Not quite the same either.

                    I can easily see why women wouldn't be on the bandwagon for some type of Islamic law ruling over them in a failed marriage situation.

              2. Writer Fox profile image80
                Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Do you even know what a Beth Din is and what it does?

                A Beth Din (House of Judges) is a group of three Rabbinical judges which meets, when petitioned, to  give rulings for a particular Jewish community.

                A Beth Din certifies conversions to Judaism, determines personal status regarding who is Jewish and who isn't, assists parents in having adopted children recognized as full members of the Jewish community, and it will act (only when asked) as an arbitrator in civil business disputes where the participants prefer Jewish arbitration rather than appealing to a country's civil court system. There are many other groups in the U.S. which act as arbitrators in civil disputes; arbitration is a commonly used alternative.  Many contracts (most are not involving Jewish people) require the parties to handle disputes with a designated arbitrator instead of resorting to lawsuits.

                Unlike Islamic Sharia law, a Beth Din doesn't deal in criminal offenses or hand down proclamations regarding non-Jewish people. A Beth Din does nothing which contradicts the laws of the United States of America.

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Wow! Thanks, you throw doubt on whether i know what Beth Din is or not and then go on to a quote that proves I know exactly what Beth Din is.

                  At this point we were only discussing Sharia with respect to none Islamic countries. Sharia does nothing to contradict the laws of the US or the UK.

                  1. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    According to the Sharia law:

                    •  Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand.
                    •  Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
                    •  Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
                    •  Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam, is punishable by death.
                    •  A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
                    •  A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
                    •  A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
                    •  A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
                    •  Girls' clitoris should be cut (per Muhammad's words in Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
                    •  A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.
                    •  A man can unilaterally divorce his wife but a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce.
                    •  A man can beat his wife for insubordination.
                    •  Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman.
                    •  A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
                    •  A woman's testimony in court, allowed only in property cases, carries half the weight of a man's.
                    •  A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits.
                    •  A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
                    •  A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
                    •  Meat to be eaten must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be Halal.
                    •  Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.

                    http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html

                    "Britain is seeing a surge in Sharia marriages — many of them polygamous — as young Muslims shun legally binding unions.

                    "As many as 100,000 couples are living in such marriages, which are not valid under UK law, and bypassing register offices, experts said. Ministers have raised fears that women can be left without the right to a fair share of assets if the relationship ends, while others are forced to return to abusive 'husbands.'

                    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/a … 486748.ece

                  2. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    "Muslims Try to Pass SHARIA LAW in Alabama… But Citizens Say HELL NO!


                    "Amendment One, an amendment to the state constitution that prohibits foreign law being used to decide cases in Alabama courts, has passed easily and will be added to the Alabama Constitution.

                    "Johnston [the Birmingham attorney who drafted the amendment] said it does not undermine the religious rights of Muslims or anyone else, but does prevent lawyers from arguing from Sharia law in an Alabama custody case, for example.

                    “'Your constitutional rights are not affected by it,' Johnston said. 'We’ve got a religious freedom amendment in Alabama. All it says is pay attention to the religious freedom amendment. Women’s rights are compromised by Sharia rights if a lawyer in a custody case says, Islam requires you to do this. It’s a help to judges. It doesn’t create any new laws.'”

                    "Certain groups have called this amendment racist. But the problem is, so much of Islam’s teachings are incompatible with civilized society. This amendment draws a clear line in the sand that 14th century thinking cannot be protected by law."

                    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/musl … z3epsE9STe

  45. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    Middle Eastern Journalists Push Muslims to Acknowledge That Terrorism Is Connected to Islam.

    "The seemingly forgiving attitude toward Islam as a whole, even while lambasting radical Islam, is the sentiment a prominent Middle Eastern journalist questioned in an article this week urging Muslims to embark on a soul-searching about the parts of their religious heritage that are inspiring terrorists.

    "The three crimes are nothing but parts of a whole. They are examples of criminal actions committed in the name of the 'true Islam' for years all over the world, without being firmly encountered, although they are pushing all Muslims in a real war against the whole world.

    "The Lebanese writer argued that terrorists use Islamic texts to justify their killings.

    “'The original texts that form an inseparable part of true Islam and inspire the ongoing crimes committed in its name are also guilty,' he wrote on Lebanon’s NOW website.

    "He also suggested that state constitutions based on Shariah law and religious schools, which he called 'factories for crime,' are part of the problem.

    These killers are us. They are our religion at its most extreme. They are our true Islam taken to its furthest extent and they are not beyond the scripture. If the West says in one united voice ‘we are Charlie’ we should say ‘we are ISIS,’ Koteich wrote."

    And this is from one of the comments posted on that article:
    "1. Unbelievers do not have a right to know what Islam teaches.
    2. It is sinful for Muslims to take non Muslims as friends UNLESS it’s for the purpose of using them to accomplish the goals of Islam. It is NOT a sin to use deception to protect Islam.
    3. Muslims must lie if it is the only way to achieve a goal of Islam.
    4. The most important goal of Muslims is to spread the worship of Allah through Islam
    5. It is sinful for Muslims to allow non Muslims to look down on Islam in any way.
    6. The purpose of violence is to spread Islam & Sharia Law."
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/07 … -to-islam/

    1. colorfulone profile image86
      colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Islam is in complete opposition to the teachings of Christ.

      1. John Holden profile image61
        John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Don't make unqualified statements, prove it.

      2. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I think you are right about that.

  46. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    "FBI agents have made at least 30 arrests on US soil this year as they try to combat the murderous reach of ISIS and its warped followers."

    "Officials revealed this week that the Islamic terror group has a foothold in all 50 states as it continues to target disaffected Americans through its torrent of online propaganda and slick videos of barbaric beheadings and mutilations."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … alone.html

    This is a map of FBI command centers specifically set up to protect American citizens from Islamic terrorist attacks during the July 4th holiday:

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12507193.jpg

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      And how many common or garden domestic murderers have they arrested this year?

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        We are discussing murders committed in the name of religion.

        And, of course, we are still waiting for your 'evidence' that Christians are beheading non-Christians in the name of their religion today. hmm

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          But surely the number of murders in the USA committed by Muslims (and lets face it, you aren't interested in any other religion) is totally insignificant!

          I gave up on finding "evidence" of Christians beheading none Christians, it was getting too gory and distressing reading about Christians mass raping Muslim women. I posted that information.

          Still waiting for the title of the hub of mine that you read..

          1. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this
            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Interesting! According to my account those two hubs are still published!

              The only reference I make to my status in either of those hubs is a single comment "I'm single again"

          2. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            When I Google "Christians beheading none Christians" all I see in the news is ISIS (Islamic) are the ones doing the beheadings with plenty of videos (I will not watch).  https://goo.gl/Y2UIKl

            If Christians were beheading none Christians, surely that would make the headlines too. But, the fact is it is not because it is not happening as you say, John.

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              The clue is in "when you google".

              Normally when you google a question google returns answers to that question. If there were actually no returns for that question then google would say so. It would not give you returns for a question that you had not asked.

            2. Writer Fox profile image80
              Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              I completely agree with you.  Christians aren't beheading anyone, anywhere in the world, in the name of their religion.  I don't know why John posted that when it is clearly a lie.

              1. John Holden profile image61
                John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                So the link that Moshka posted to a Christian beheading Muslims was a lie!
                I hope you're not implying that Moshka made it up!

                1. Writer Fox profile image80
                  Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  What link?  You keep saying that but you never post a link.

                  Then you said you couldn't find any instances of Christians beheading anybody.

                  You change what you say every time you post about it.  If you have a link, post it.

                  1. John Holden profile image61
                    John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    OK, here it is. I'm sure that tit will upset Moshka as they told me it wasn't valid but whatever.

                    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m … nge-attack

              2. colorfulone profile image86
                colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                No, people who believe in Jesus as the Messiah do not do acts of terrorism, they are Christians and follow the teachings of the Messiah.

                People who do NOT believe Jesus is the Messiah and claim to be Christians are Christian is name only, (it is a deception) because they do not follow the teachings of the Messiah. They do not know Him.

                1. janesix profile image59
                  janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  They have in the past. And could easily again in the future.

                  1. colorfulone profile image86
                    colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Many will deny Christ (those of little faith) in these end times but for the true believes of Christ that isn't going to happen. Things are going to end gloriously for Born Again Christians in the rapture and it really looks like that is going to happen soon.  I am very sad for those who do not or will not believe, but I am not afraid because I trust in the Lord with all my heart and lean not on my own understanding.

                2. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  So why can't you apply the same principles to Muslims?

                  1. colorfulone profile image86
                    colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    You admitted in another thread that you are an atheist, John. So! That question  coming from an admitted atheist seems odd to me.  Does that mean you do not believe is Islam?  I am trying to understand.

        2. colorfulone profile image86
          colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          That won't happen because Christians are not beheading anyone, Muslims are. John cannot give us evidence of what he is saying because there is none to support it.  He can only manufacture deceptive statements.

          1. John Holden profile image61
            John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            This is boring! Look for the link that was posted about a Christian beheading a Muslim.
            It has been posted several times though each time it has been spun to not count.

          2. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Confirmed.

  47. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    200 have been killed by Islamists battling the Egyptian army in the Sinai Peninsula, and the death count is mounting.

    It's turning into a very bloody Islamic holiday of Ramadan.

    In addition, an hour ago, the Islamic terrorists launched a missile into Israel from the Sinai.

    Palestinian Authority police have arrested 100 Hamas operatives in Israel today.

    http://www.debka.com/article/24710/Some … orth-Sinai

    "On Tuesday, Islamic State militants released a video threatening to turn Gaza into another "fiefdom", as in parts of Iraq and Syria."

    A top Israel army officer, Major-General Yoav Mordechai, has revealed that Israeli intelligence information identifies that the Iranian-backed Hamas Islamic terrorist organization is secretly aiding ISIS.

    http://www.thestar.com.my/News/World/20 … -in-Egypt/
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d … m-1.664199

    This new revelation reveals that ISIS is actually controlled by Iran.  Although the leaders of ISIS are all ex-Iraqi military officers from the regime of Saddam Hussein, it is clear that they are now working directly for Iran. 

    This should be a game-changer in American foreign policy and negotiations with Iran.  Sadly, Obama is asleep at the switch and the Iranian nuclear bomb is ticking, with 'Death to America' written all over it.

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12507383.png

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Shame you murdered Hussein then isn't it!

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I didn't murder him. 

        I thought you did. tongue

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          "You" as a people, not a personal "you".

          1. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Aren't you a Muslim?  Isn't that 'your people?'

            I'm not a Muslim and 'my people' didn't kill him.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution … am_Hussein

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Oh of course it was Bin Laden wasn't it! My bad.

              1. Writer Fox profile image80
                Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                I didn't do that either, but former Navy SEAL Robert O'Neill was a hero and my kind of guy! 

                I salute him for his courage and his contribution to wipe out Islamic terrorists hiding in and supported by the government of Pakistan!

                http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12507470_f1024.jpg

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  You hero worship a killer! Sick.

                  1. Writer Fox profile image80
                    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    I applaud the soldiers of America who fight for freedom, liberty and the preservation of the American way of life against the enemies who seek America's destruction.  Osama bin Laden conducted the 9/11 attacks on American soil which killed over 3,000 innocent civilians.

                    Why do you and other Muslims applaud Osama bin Laden, the murderer of thousands?

                    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12507486.jpg

                2. colorfulone profile image86
                  colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Robert O'Neil is a true HERO! 
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRUCoO_WduU

                  He was 90% sure he wasn't coming back from the mission.
                  Thank God he lived!

                  The history of Bin Laden -- http://www.history.com/topics/osama-bin-laden
                  "On May 1, 2011, American soldiers killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden at his compound near Islamabad, Pakistan. Intelligence officials believe bin Laden was responsible for many deadly acts of terrorism, including the 1998 bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania and the September 11, 2001 attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. He had been on the FBI’s “most wanted” list for more than a decade."

      2. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        "Following his capture on 13 December 2003, the trial of Saddam took place under the Iraqi interim government. On 5 November 2006, Saddam was convicted of charges related to the 1982 killing of 148 Iraqi Shi'ites and was sentenced to death by hanging. His execution was carried out on 30 December 2006" -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          OK, I've admitted my mistake several posts back!

  48. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    The UK has succumbed to terrorists and admits that it cannot even protect its own military bases in England.

    "A British airbase used by American airmen has canceled its Fourth of July celebrations given rising security threats.

    "The Royal Air Force closed the events at its Feltwell base in Norfolk in southeastern England after a threat working group met this week and made the decision 'based on the current threat assessment', Capt. Emily Grabowski, chief public affairs officer of the 48th Fighter Wing, based at the nearby base RAF Lakenheath, told CNN."
    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/02/polit … lebration/
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ments.html

    If air force bases in England are not secured from terrorist attacks, the UK might as well turn in the keys.

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12509561.jpg

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12509563.jpg

    1. John Holden profile image61
      John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Balderdash!
      We have done no such thing. If we had why would our government still support your government?
      Why would our troops take on some of the most dangerous anti-terrorism missions?
      We don't celebrate the Fourth of July and neither are we responsible for American forces squatting in our country.
      Sure, RAF bases taken over by America still have a figure head British officer in control, but that control stops when the Americans want to do anything. Remember the Gulf war air strikes that were launched from British bases? Remember how we were only told about them when all planes had returned to their UK bases?
      Remember after 9/11 when Lakenheath tore up major roads around the base to protect themselves, and did so without even consulting British authorities or even the people who they cut off from their homes for days?

      Please think before you gratuitously insult the UK.

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Problems with reading comprehension again, I see.  Read this slowly:

        "UK Red Arrows grounded over Jihadi terror threat: Three U.S. air bases in Britain cancel July 4 celebrations after security chiefs warn of 'local threat assessments.'

        "The two-day festival was due to be hosted by U.S crew based in RAF Lakenheath and Mildenhall, home to the 48th Fighter Wing at the nearby RAF Feltwell in Norfolk.

        "Among the highlights of the show was to be a display by the RAF Red Arrows as well as the RAF Falcons parachute team.

        "However, due to the increased risk posed by ISIS, following last week's Tunisian terror attacks and the anniversary of the London 7/7 attacks, security chiefs decided to cancel the planned two-day festival.

        "According to the U.S. Air Force: 'The decision was made due to the most current local threat assessments. The base continually surveys the security environment alongside host nation counterparts and must take appropriate measures based on those assessments.'

        "Colonel David Eaglin, 48th Fighter Wing vice commander said: 'While we were certainly looking forward to this year's celebration and hosting the US and UK communities at RAF Feltwell, we have to put public safety first and foremost.

        "'We apologise for any inconvenience this cancellation has caused, and we will continue to work with our UK counterparts - both military and civilian - to make sure we keep our Airmen and the local communities safe.'

        "As well as the high-octane displays, the festival was due to feature live bands, acrobatic displays and carnival rides."

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ments.html

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho … 65727.html

        "The Royal Air Force Lakenheath said on its Facebook page that they 'sincerely apologize' for the cancellation of festivities and that the decision was made with 'heavy hearts,' NBC News reports.

        "The decision was made due to the most current, local threat assessments. We make every effort to ensure the safety of our Airmen, their families and our U.K. partners and must make difficult decisions like this when lives are on the line. Both the main event on Saturday, July 4th, as well as the preview party scheduled for Friday, July 3rd, are cancelled. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and, whether you’re celebrating the 4th of July holiday or simply enjoying the British summer, we wish you a safe and happy weekend."

        http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur … or-threat/

        1. John Holden profile image61
          John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          That is not what you said!

          Spot the difference-
          "The UK has succumbed to terrorists and admits that it cannot even protect its own military bases in England.

          "A British airbase used by American airmen has canceled its Fourth of July celebrations given rising security threats.

          "The Royal Air Force closed the events at its Feltwell base in Norfolk in southeastern England after a threat working group met this week and made the decision 'based on the current threat assessment', Capt. Emily Grabowski, chief public affairs officer of the 48th Fighter Wing, based at the nearby base RAF Lakenheath, told CNN."
          http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/02/polit … lebration/
          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ments.html

          If air force bases in England are not secured from terrorist attacks, the UK might as well turn in the keys."

          1. Writer Fox profile image80
            Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I'm so glad you reposted my comments.

            What a sad day in England it is when a picnic has to be cancelled at a large air force base in the UK because UK ground forces cannot adequately secure the event against terrorism.

            1. colorfulone profile image86
              colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Thank you for the news updates this morning, Writer Fox. This thread has become a go to place for me to read about WHAT IS happening around the world. Sad that 4th of July celebrations had to be canceled because of Islam terrorist threats. But, even sadder that the UK does not have adequate security.

            2. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Only one comment to make to that and that is - 9/11

  49. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    Islam's faithful have been busy the past few days observing the Islamic holiday of Ramadan.

    In the past 48 hours, Boko Haram terrorists killed 200 people in Nigeria and burnt many neighborhoods to the ground. They used an assortment of methods: raids, explosions, suicide attacks, etc. One suicide bomber was a 15-year-old girl, happy to sacrifice herself to Allah, who apparently loves human sacrifices, which is why there are so many of them.
    http://news.yahoo.com/nigerian-leader-c … am-attacks

    Not to be outdone, ISIS displayed its dismal colors of black and white in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, resulting in the deaths of 200 people (1/2 of them terrorists) and, of course, Allah was praised.

    The battle for control of the Sinai has now involved Israel, since ISIS launched two missiles into Israel from the Sinai.  Fortunately, the God of Israel protected His people and no one was injured, which probably made Allah very sad.
    http://www.debka.com/article/24710/Some … rth-Sinai-

    http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12509723.jpg

    But, never mind that, because ISIS promised to destroy the Sphinx and the Pyramids of Egypt for Allah.
     
    "UK radical Islamist Anjem Choudary echoed Baghdadi’s sentiments, telling The Telegraph: 'When Egypt comes under the auspices of the Khalifa [Caliphate under Islamic rule], there will be no more pyramids, no more Sphinx, no more idolatry,' saying that the ancient statues’ destruction 'will be just.'

    "Another Islamist preacher, Kuwati Ibrahim Al Kandari, agrees that the cultural monuments need to be destroyed to comply with the Shariah [Islamic law].

    “The fact that early Muslims who were among prophet Mohammed’s followers did not destroy the pharaohs’ monuments upon entering Egypt does not mean that we shouldn’t do it now.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur … gious-duty

    And just for your viewing pleasure this Ramadan holiday season, ISIS just released another video. Go get your popcorn!

    Filmed at the 2,000 year old ancient ruins of the city of Palmyra, Syria, ISIS marched captive prisoners into the Roman arena filled with onlookers, including many small children.

    The 25 prisoners of war were chained together and forced to kneel on the ground.

    Close ups of the prisoners faces show that they had been beaten. Their faces were bloody and bruised.

    Behind each prisoner stood a teenage girl with a pistol.

    On cue, each teenage girl pressed her pistol at the head of a prisoner and pulled the trigger.

    The video continues and the entire ancient ruins of Palmyra were bombed out of existence.

    At the end of the nine-minute video, it concludes with the terrorists prostrated on the ground, with their butts high in the air, giving praises to Allah.

    And a happy Ramadan was had by all.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -ruin.html

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12509726.jpg

    1. colorfulone profile image86
      colorfuloneposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      This kind of behavior is pure evil to anyone who is good.

      1. Writer Fox profile image80
        Writer Foxposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I watched that whole video and it is another horrific ISIS production.  Those teenage girls literally blew the brains out of the captive prisoners and, with blood splattered all over their clothes, they didn't even bat an eyelash.

        Some of those girls couldn't have been over 13 years old.

        These are girls no doubt recruited from Western countries.  Here's an online text of actual conversations in the UK that shows how vulnerable teenagers are recruited to join ISIS and marry terrorists.  Some are expected to be second wives, because the soldiers are already married to at least one other woman:

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … orter.html

  50. Writer Fox profile image80
    Writer Foxposted 17 months ago

    As the ten-year anniversary approaches of the horrific acts of Islamic terrorism on British soil on July 7, 2005, more than half of the British population regard Islam as a threat ─ with those figures showing a stark increase even in the days following the 7/7 attack.

    "A YouGov poll showed 56 per cent of people currently believe the religion is a danger to Western liberal democracy, rising 10 per cent from the day after the 2005 bombings in London which left 52 dead.

    "The latest survey was taken even before last week's terror atrocity in Tunisia which saw 30 people killed.

    "Also revealed in the poll, carried out on behalf of the Huffington Post, was that 79 per cent of people believe an attack on the same scale as 7/7 is likely in Britain in the near future."
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/588743 … cerns-grow

    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12510534_f1024.jpg

Closed to reply
 
working