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Charleston in the News Again- 9 People Murdered in Place of Worship

  1. Credence2 profile image85
    Credence2posted 18 months ago

    It has been reported that a 20 year old anglo male entered a predominantly black church and opened fire killing 9. This is to be considered a "hate crime". I have always said that there are too many incidents that involve race to chalk them all up as random occurrences. It is disturbing that so much hatred is found in one so young. When I read this article I was taken back to a church bombing in Birmingham AL in September. 1963 that killed 4 little girls. Maybe we are all being a little premature about improving race relations...  I don't have to pull the 'race card', it is all on the table in plain sight.

    1. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      What's an "anglo" male?

      1. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Would you feel more comfortable if I said caucasian, white?

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          I don't care. I am just curious about the use of "anglo" and "anglo-saxon" lately. Is it the new PC term,or is it some kind of subtle insult? I'm just wondering.

          1. Credence2 profile image85
            Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

            No, it is just another way of saying describing the same thing, no insult is intended. But what has happened here is an insult, who are the adults that are behind the kid and inspired his actions?

    2. Don W profile image83
      Don Wposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Why this is not being described as an act of terrorism?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Because they (?) want it to be seen as racism. I see it another kid on pharmaceuticals.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          Have you seen the latest reports, this fellow has taken up the mantle of white supremacy and racial resentment, combine that with his probably being disturbed in some way and you have a disaster in the making.

        2. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          The kid even said he did it because he wanted to start a race war.

          What pharmaceuticals was he on,and how do you know they had anything to do with his behavior? Or is it just another one of your conspiracy theories?

      2. PrettyPanther profile image85
        PrettyPantherposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        I just watched CNN announce they are now calling it an act of terrorism.  They also had a panel discussion about why the "default" for white killers, even right-wing terrorists, is to label them  mentally ill, while the default for certain other demographics is to label them terrorists or thugs.

      3. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Yes, I would go so far as considering this an act of domestic terrorism, the radical Islam has got  nothing on this kid in the sheer ferocity of the crime and its setting.

        1. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          This is a hate crime. It comes right from his own mouth and backed up by his behavior. They strongly believe he acted on his own.

          1. Credence2 profile image85
            Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

            He may well have acted on his own, it just seems so uncharacteristic based on the fact that he did not have these problems in high school. It is strange what can happen to an individual's mindset in a handful of years.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    And was the kid given Ritillin or Adderal all the years of his life? and we need to analyze whatever else has been going DRASTICALLY wrong in his young life. Yeah, lets bring up racism… cause we whites are such prejudiced types of people, aren't we?
    All people have empathy, compassion and goodness in the make-ups of their very beings. It is only when we mess with what we naturally are that the nature of a human goes bad. Racism is learned. It is not natural.
    Why don't we try to find what went wrong in this kid's life?
    I would say the same thing if a black twenty year old walked into a white church and shot nine people.
    A blurp of story. Thanks for nuthin'.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Kathryn, I knew that this was coming, the apologists

      You know they say that among those that commit crimes: Black are thugs

      Muslims are terrorists and Whites are mentally ill.

      Regarding our race relations there is this colorless oderless gas in the air that like oxygen is the component for starting fires, but no one wants to really hone in on it.

      The gun people are saying that the pastor and that part of the congregation should have been armed. I am expecting any number of excuses throughout the day!

    2. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Racism is natural. It is natural to fear/be intolerant of someone different from you.

      Tolerance is a learned trait.

      1. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Well, if we expect to survive as an ever greater multicultural civilization and society, we had better learn tolerance quickly. It is natural to pick your nose, but a little civility teaches us not to do this in public.  Thats what we need 'civility"

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          I completely agree.

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        I disagree. watch kids in a room. All these kids of different nationalities accept each other.
        Why wouldn't they?
        They're just kids and thats all they see: Kids, kids and more kids.
        No one is born racist.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          No one is born racist but their parents and the culture is and teaches the young this if not overtly, subconsciously.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            So, which culture is doing this?

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

              The same culture (American culture-white dominating) that statistically prove differing life outcomes based on race, we are far from colorblind yet. It is why I get Bull Connor and you get Andy Taylor. We can go for the stats and discuss this in depth, if you like, I explained a few of these things to Janesix in an earlier thread.

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    " I don't have to pull the 'race card',
                                it is all on the table in plain sight."
    No it isn't!
    To say so, is racist against whites.
    Thanks, Credence2.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      You're welcome.  We have our own homegrown terrorists right here which as part of American history is as American as apple pie. Maybe we need to put more focus on the rightwing hate group who is probably responsible for filling this kid's empty head with all this nonsense. It is interesting to note, how I complained about the radical Islamic groups who send their young as suicide bombers while the old ones who direct them sit and scratch their beards..... This situation may be a redux.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        "probably" isn't good enough.
        You are surmising.

        Are you guessing?
        Yes.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          Yes, you're right, we do not know that he was affiliated with anyone, which would be more terrible than his having done this on his own volition. But it is a hypothesis, not a guess.The clothing and his statement at the time of the shooting indicated a racial resentment characteristic of white supremacist hate groups.

          Get this: now Fox says that this attack may be an attack against Christianity itself, the spinmeister never stops. If that were true, there were plenty of churches in his neighborhood that could have been the focus of his violence.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Oh my gosh!   No! this is a crazy mixed up kid.   All the political distortions really NEED to be done away with. Scientifically speaking… This issue needs to be dealt with as a case study.
            The Kid's whole entire history needs to KNOWN.
            Thats the problem with the news.
            They give us bits when we need all.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

              I wish everybody could have shown the same understanding and patience about the motivation of the participants during the Baltimore riots.

              People that engage in the mass shootings are not all necessarily mentally ill to the point that their judgment is so askew that they cannot be held responsible for their crimes.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                YES THEY ARE

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  I respectfully disagree, the shooters in the Columbine High School and the movie theatre in Aurora, Colorado. How about the incident at the Connecticut school or at the mall in Tucson, are you saying that all of these people were mentally ill? Would you say that the mass murders committed by the Islamic radicals today or by the Nazi's in the past are the product of 'mentally ill' people?

                  I doubt it, this fellow was caught well over 200 miles from the scene of the crime, he was of sound mind enough to flee, for what purpose?

              2. ahorseback profile image47
                ahorsebackposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                The difference in this and Baltimore is  extensive and yet you wish to simplify and compare the two  somehow   ? Right .  ........ya , makes sense to me , Not !

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  So, you want to give this kid he benefit of the doubt too?, The only real difference is that one group are black and the other is a white fellow. Are you making an excuse for him too?

                  1. ahorseback profile image47
                    ahorsebackposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    I make no excuses for anyone , I believe in the death penalty !

              3. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                Mentally ill, yes.  So ill they cannot be held accountable, no.  Or at least must be removed from society for protection of the rest of us if that means "accountable".

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  I concur.... Depending upon a trial his crimes reach the level of deserving capital punishment or if criminally insane spend the rest of his life in an institution. That what the 'law and order' guys would say.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    It would be extremely difficult to convince me that he didn't know that killing is wrong, both morally and legally.  He knew both; he just doesn't care (and for our system the only one that matters is the legality of murder).

                    So does he get the chair or a plush private bedroom with the excuse we're trying to "cure" him while knowing we cannot?

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    But at least this post gives those who want to discuss/argue something
    something.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      I agree, this is an open forum, bring it on!

  5. Chriswillman90 profile image91
    Chriswillman90posted 18 months ago

    This is just disturbing on so many levels. I'm not going to play any race card or even bring up religion because it happened at a church. The only thing I can say is that there was a lot of misdirection on the part of the shooter and mental illness could have played a role. Side note: the amount of homicides by gunfire continues to be absurd and I've haven't seen much progress lately.

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Nor will you (see much progress) until we accept as a nation that the murder tool isn't the problem.

      1. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Wilderness, always good to have you weigh in. There is that 2nd amendment reflex from the conservative. A lot like the reflex action you get when the doctor hits a knee with a mallet? I am not advocating anything in this regard but I will say that it is a pretty efficient tool that can kill 9 people in a matter of seconds, so what ever the perps problem be it mental illness or premeditation, it instanly translates into death for so many. Powerful tool, I would say....

  6. PrettyPanther profile image85
    PrettyPantherposted 18 months ago

    Poor little white boy has been misguided by mommy, daddy, psychiatrists, teachers, and the list goes on.

    Poor black protestors are stupid thugs who could better themselves if they just stopped feeling sorry for themselves and worked harder and longer.

    Case closed.  No more discussion needed.  We've been schooled.
    roll

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Thanks, Pretty Panther, I going to bring the teacher a polished apple!

      1. PrettyPanther profile image85
        PrettyPantherposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        As long as it doesn't clash with her halo.  Oops, I'll probably get reported and banned for implying angels grace the Hubpages forums.

  7. Aime F profile image82
    Aime Fposted 18 months ago

    I think it's entirely possible that this kid is both mentally ill and a racist.

    I'm sure there are plenty of racists out there who wouldn't think to actually grab a gun and kill 9 people. There's something not right with anyone who can walk into a building and kill a bunch of random strangers. I'm sure he's mentally ill, as is anyone who commits similar crimes. But there's also a difference between being mentally ill and being not criminally responsible on account of mental illness. The latter is actually quite rare and most people know exactly what they're doing when they commit these crimes. Does that mean that they're not ill? Nope. Does it mean that they can still function well enough to know the difference between right and wrong? Absolutely.

    I'm not sure what the answer is. I think a lot of it comes back to the parents. People need to know how to spot and treat tendencies towards dangerous thoughts/behaviours and not pass down hate and prejudice. Teach your kids kindness and empathy from the beginning and get help if you notice they're severely lacking it. Oh, and don't give your troubled child a freakin' gun for their birthday.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      I am not in a position to speak of the soundness of mind of this young man, It is the attempt to excuse his behavior so easily, when if the situation were different people would not have been so charitable.

      1. Aime F profile image82
        Aime Fposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        No, I don't think this kind of thing should ever be excused. I think people correctly assume that someone capable of something like this is mentally ill but then incorrectly assume that it means the person didn't understand what they were doing. In most cases like this I think that mental illness is necessary but not sufficient.

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          Speaking as a "mentally ill" person who has had several psychotic episodes and spend much time in psych wards with other mentally ill people, I can attest that even very floridly psychotic people certainly know right from wrong,and are even capable of strategic planning.

          Mental illness is no excuse for criminal acts, accept in very rare cases.

          1. Credence2 profile image85
            Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Understood, I concur...

          2. ahorseback profile image47
            ahorsebackposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            +++++

          3. promisem profile image94
            promisemposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Absurd. And I speak as someone who has extensively cared for mentally ill people and work with an agency that does so. Yes, it's true that some can tell right from wrong. Others aren't even capable of using a bathroom.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

              This kid has shown that he is more than capable of using a bathroom as well as automatic weapons...

              1. promisem profile image94
                promisemposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                That's not my point. I was addressing the statement that "very floridly psychotic people certainly know right from wrong."

            2. janesix profile image61
              janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

              I can tell you from experience, I certainly knew right from wrong.

              SOME people can't. I would say more can than can't, a lot more.

              1. promisem profile image94
                promisemposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                OK, thanks. I think we're on the same page.

  8. ahorseback profile image47
    ahorsebackposted 18 months ago

    Sad fact , Unless he actually is completely stupid , he deserves the death penalty .  Period .  Almost always  , these acts of  human indecency are an evil  choice .    As already stated one has to be" out there crazy" to be mentally excused .

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    <"This is to be considered a "hate crime". I have always said that there are too many incidents that involve race to chalk them all up as random occurrences. It is disturbing that so much hatred is found in one so young.">
                                      I am saying it is NOT innate hatred.
    It is a messed up psyche.
    That's all I am saying.
    I'm NOT saying people with messed up psyches should not be held accountable.
    I am saying we need to look at the messed up psyche and determine what caused the psyche to get so messed up..
    ...before we call it racism.
    I'm asking why call it racism???
    until we know for sure. and the kid says Yeah, I hate blacks and I hate God so I thought would kill some off… two birds with one stone.
      It is a horrible story. It goes way beyond racism
    To even mention racism is inappropriate.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      There is some form of racial resentment operating, he made racial antogonistic comments prior to the shooting. Why a black church? Look at his car and his clothing all having white supremist labels and placards. No, this guy just did not snap.... I am not dismissing your idea, but some kind of racism is evident in his behavior.  And, you can bet that your take on this is going to be an uphill climb from the standpoint of most all of us. Believe me, the African American community of Charleston are going to need more substantive explanations and proof before your suggestion can be taken seriously. Of course, he is not going to openly admit he is a racist and bring the heavy hand of the law on him further. His actions will do the talking for him, his associations, etc. No more than Tim McVeigh admitted his resentment.

      I know, that little cherubic face of his has grab your heartstrings?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        I know nothing of the incident. I have not seen his face. Coming from someone who loves children and knows how sweet they are, I deduct that something went drastically wrong with this kid's upbringing.
        Racism is learned, but I don't think anyone in today's world is teaching racism.
        I could be totally wrong. If so, it is something "we ?" need to work on. It is sad and it is not fun.
        Why racism?
        Is it fear? Is it enjoyment of hating?
        It starts out as psychological issue, I think.

        As far as this incident, it is wrong to call it pure racism and pinpoint that which it is not.


        Who would implant racism into a child?
        That's where the blame should be.
        ...whoever is teaching racism.

        There is no reason for it. It is illogical, as Spock would say.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          The number of white supremist organizations have grown exponentially since Obama's inauguration in 2009. I would hazard a guess that they are preaching and teaching racism, otherwise what is their purpose for existence?

          This 'child' is an adult and consequently can and must be held responsible for his actions, do not forget 9 people were murdered. No one can afford to take that lightly.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Oh! Well, why didn't you say so.
            Is there some logical reason for such racism?
            What is their reasoning?

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

              You did not ask me.... As for their reasoning it is as old as the pyramids, one race says and wants to promulgate that it is better than another. What reasoning, it is part of the human condition and has been around since we have been able to identify differences from one group and another. Ask the KKK, Aryan Nations, or Christian Identity to explain themselves. They will do better than I.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                The KKK felt that newly released slaves should not be allowed to vote, as they would vote a certain way... not sure which way.

                "The first (KKK's) sought to overthrow the Republican state governments in the South during the Reconstruction Era, especially by violence against African American leaders. It ended about 1871. The second was a very large, controversial, nationwide organization in the 1920s that especially opposed Catholics. The current manifestation consists of numerous small unconnected groups that use the KKK name." W

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  But they are still here, or their offshoots and as I said there are more prominent now then 10 years ago, so so much for our becoming more enlightened with the passage of  time.

                  We have our Black panthers and Black muslim nationalist groups , but besides rhetoric, they have not bombed government buildings nor murdered members of congregations in white own churches as a form of protest.

                  . So there is a matter of level and degree. I know this nation's sordid historical moments,and there is no one clever enough to have me waltzed around them.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    ...pretend I am an "atheist."
                    Prove your theory.
                    ...what is it again?

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    <"This 'child' is an adult and consequently can and must be held responsible for his actions, do not forget 9 people were murdered. No one can afford to take that lightly.">

    This is a second issue. No one will argue what you have said here.

    Repeating:
    I'm NOT saying people with messed up psyches should not be held accountable.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      <…we are all being a little premature about improving race relations…">
      This is your point.

      It is just when people talk about a postracial society and that white folks don't see racism, it is events like these and what has happened over the last few months with police issues and such that remind us that we still have a considerable way to go.

  11. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Issue One: The incident was one of pure racism. No.
    Issue Two: He needs to be held accountable for his actions. Yes. (Messed up psyche or not, he is accountable.)

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Issue one: Why not, I have seen racists take bold actions such as this in the past. That is not what the Black community of Charleston believes. Why is this the exception?

      A 'hate crime' is defined as assault on another solely because of their race,gender or sexual orientation, etc. If he is accused of a hate crime then  an element of racism has to be involved by the very definition.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        The hate is caused by a messed up psyche. Humans are not born to hate.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          For a species that are not born to hate, we have been doing it since The Flintstones. The evidence is clear to anyone who has studied the human condition over the ages of time.

  12. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Racism is caused by Ignorance.
    The kid is ignorant of a better way to think and be.
    WHY?

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      He could be an evil racist, like Mengele or McVeigh, there are plenty of examples, why is he (this kid) the exception?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        so these guys were born evil?
        You tend to put words in people's mouths.
        I did not say he was an exception.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          Even Adolf Hitler was not born evil, but he became so, all the same. Racism is more than ignorance, many that practice it know what they are  doing for their own self serving ends.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Ignorance of what is their greater joy.

    2. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      No, racism is the result of people seeing differences in another group or person,and becoming defensive. Or just not liking them because of perceived differences. It's a natural, territorial response.Older than the hills.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        +1.   Right on all counts, particularly that it is a natural response.  Of course, when that scary other race becomes a part of our own "group" (particularly when it happens before our own birth) racism has a strong tendency to disappear. 

        Generally to be replaced with something else - religious differences, homophobia, etc. - anything that is not common on our personal mini-society. sad

  13. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    What would the people of Souith Central, Compton, or East LA and the famously GOP Orange County tell me?

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      They would tell you that you were 'nuts' to say that racism is no longer present just because you don't see it!

  14. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    You cannot prove it was a racist act.
    Nor have you proved one thing here.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Using the laws of probability I can say that similar acts performed under similar circumstances in the past were more likely than not a racist attack. I have to act on precedent and the preponderance of evidence, not the unlikely probability that you speak of.

  15. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    What is the way to go to eradicate the remaining embers of racism?
    Without isolating the difficulty, one cannot solve the problem.
    What do you think the difficulty is?

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      First, I have got to get you people to admit it exists before we can begin to look at remedies and solutions. The first and formost difficullty is getting so many of you to acknowledge its existence. We can't solve a problem, if you deny that there is an object that we need to focus upon.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        We already figured that out. Lack of love.
        Love is a given, however, so it is a matter of people not having love as a priority. Not valuing love over material stuff… the mini society as opposed to a universal society…
          Its just a lack of awareness.
        Raising consciousness of the people is the solution. Consciousness IS increasing. We can have faith in that.
        Execute patience, and give love for hate.

        And enforce the laws of justice.

        AND the shooter needs to be in Jail For The Rest of His life.
        I am interested to know who would not agree with that?

        We really need to know this person's history. That would be a good start to raise consciousness.
        Will we ever Know it?
        Probably not. "They ?" would rather we surmise, guess and suspect that it is hatred on the part of whites (increasingly) toward blacks.
        It ain't.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          All of that is easy to say on a full belly, a roof over your head and having your material needs met, those that are in want in any of the essentials that most of us take for granted are not going to be as gracious.

          Yes, the minimum sentence for the shooter must be life imprisonment with no possibility of parole.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            What does any of that mean?
            Ask any homeless person if he is racist and he will say hell no.

            1. janesix profile image61
              janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

              "Ask any homeless person if he is racist and he will say hell no"

              Once again, you presume knowlege you have no way of knowing about any particular individual.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                GO ASK ONE!

                1. janesix profile image61
                  janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  Sure, I believe you go up to homeless people and interview them on their racial predudices and beliefs.

                  Right.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    I know and have talked to plenty. they are great people. Those who are already suffering would never put suffering onto anyone.
                    Is that the topic of this forum?
                    no.
                    Credence2: The solution is civility. I agree.

            2. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

              You did not complete your last post before I replied. I was of the distinct impression that you wanted some sort of lenient consideration. What it mean in a nutshell is that kumvbaya is not going to work in the world as it is currently structured. I could ask most of you, "are you racist' and you will say no. But the disparities in our society, racial profiling, disparate treatment/ more harsh by law enforcement and the judicial system, the higher rates of unemployment, and the documented disparity in opportunities and virtually all aspects of American life tells me someone is racist, despite what they may say when I ask them. This stuff is all over the internet, you can find it without having me have to go dredge it up...

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                <"Well, if we expect to survive as an ever greater multicultural civilization and society, we had better learn tolerance quickly. It is natural to pick your nose, but a little civility teaches us not to do this in public.  Thats what we need 'civility'">
                Can't we leave it at this?

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  Too many of you are not getting the message. Change is necessary, rather than just accomodation.  So we can't leave it there, because there is more.. The way you like to dissect things, we need to understand what it is that prevents more of you from becoming more tolerant faster in preparation for the America of the future

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    so what prevents us (in this case, whites) form being civil?

  16. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Let's say the problem can be solved with love.
    Where would love be applied.
    To avoid the agony of waiting for an answer, here is my answer:
    By allowing kids to grow up with the perfect love of their hearts they were born with.
    To preserve and protect that love.
    By learning love ourselves.
    and By reading/understanding the words of the great saints and avatars.
    and going to where love is:
    Inside.

    1. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Fantasy land.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Love is within us, coming from our hearts.

        Jesus said God's kingdom comes as His will (love) is done on earth the same as it is done in heaven.
        It wouldn't be called heaven if it wasn't for love.
        Is love fantasy, JS?

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          Sure, how many people do you really think are going to sit under a tree and contemplate the meaning of God and love?

          Let's be practical here.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            No, it has to be found under the tree and then executed beyond the tree.  Sitting still below the boughs of the tree comes first.

            1. janesix profile image61
              janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

              Again, I say you aren't being practical or realistic. People don't behave that way. (Mostly).

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                If you still your mind, you find love and joy from the peace of your own being.
                This is what the world needs. Self mastery:
                The ability to pause.

                1. janesix profile image61
                  janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  Willful ignorance of how human beings actually behave.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    Willful denial of our (human) ability to pause, reflect and sense reality.
                    Doubt away. That is YOUR hell.

    2. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Great prose, Kathryn, but it hardly gets to the root of our problem which is based on fear, greed, traits much more reliably found in the human experience

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        universal love is the answer.
        love eradicates all that BS.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          I acknowldege that, but I also have to acknowledge that the roads are not made of chocolate ice cream and is not likely to in the near future.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            So, the question is, how do we get people to love?
            By adults loving their children enough not to instill/infuse them with hatred and false doctrines.
            And that has to be of their(adults) own free choice.
            Hint:
              Loving is more enjoyable than hating.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

              When we topple the table give everybody the same good life that everybody has, People only have to luxury to survive and kumbaya does not work. People are under extrordinary financial and economic pressure that is just a small dissonance in their life. What you say always sound good but it is impractical in reality.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                What I say is possible and any human can practice it.
                When you come across a racist, you can think to yourself, that person was never trained to meditate.
                Never read the Bible, never read the Gita, never given the love of protective parents.  It is a sad sad person who ends up with racial prejudice… or any sort of prejudice for that matter.

                When we pre judge, we do not reflect on the actual reality: Prejudice people do not say to themselves:
                There is another human a person… just like me.
                They do not see the soul.
                Because they don't realize they are a soul, I guess… with feelings, hurts and fears.
                Empathy is destroyed somehow...
                 
                I know kids have it. (empathy)

                1. janesix profile image61
                  janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  "When you come across a racist, you can think to yourself, that person was never trained to meditate.
                  Never read the Bible, never read the Gita, never given the love of protective parents,  It is a sad sad person who ends up with racial prejudice… or any sort of prejudice for that matter."

                  BS. You have no idea of any individual's particular upbringing.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    It is most likely.
                    What is absolutely true is these people know nothing of true happiness.
                    They don't know how to attain/maintain it.
                    Kids have it. (Happiness)
                    Repeating: Kids are not racist.

                2. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  Where do you get all of this stuff from?

                  1. janesix profile image61
                    janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    Her personal fantasy land.

                  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                    You can ask me that question with incredulity or you can say to yourself, let me think about all those ideas...

  17. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    ...so a universal society would be better. That is a great solution based on isolating the difficulty.
    Brilliant, wilderness!
    and thank you.

  18. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Racism will not exist if we allow children to love… which they naturally do. As they get older they must learn the principles of karma yoga which Jesus, Krishna and Buddha teach. These principles provide appropriate boundaries and guide behavior toward universal harmony.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      ON what planet do we find universal harmony, it certainly is not this one

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        ...we can work toward it! most of us do everyday!

  19. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Repeating:
      "They ?" would rather we surmise, guess and suspect that it is hatred on the part of whites (increasingly) toward blacks.

                                                            It ain't.

  20. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    You may carry on with your unproven theory.
    I am one you have not convinced.
    Better luck next time.

  21. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    1. racial profiling,
    2. disparate treatment
    3. more harsh treatment by law enforcement and the judicial system,
    4. the higher rates of unemployment,
    5. the documented disparity in opportunities
    6. virtually all aspects of American life (please list)

    We need PROVEN instances to accept what you say as truth.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Cmon Kathryn, we are not children, you have a computer,  look it up. All of this is common knowledge, you can come down from Mount Karma to the earth that the rest of us live upon. A lot of what you say is pie in the sky, where Google cant help, all the things I am telling you about have been documented for some time, just turn on your browser and see for yourself...

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        I have never been convinced they were cases of pure racism.
        Pure racism against our dark skinned people is diminishing because slavery has been gone for more than a whole century. Racism does not make sense expect to stupid ignorant people.
        If you say the United States is populated by many many stupid ignorant people, I would agree. More than you are even considering.

  22. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    How about this:
    You whites who are racist,
                                                 STOP IT!
    wherever it exists…

  23. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Stupid ignorant people:
    1. profile racially
    2. issue disparate treatment
    3. give more harsh treatment (those who are stupid and/or ignorant in the law enforcement and judicial system)
    4. do not employ minorities for the inane reason they are of some other skin color.
    5. refuse to issue employment and...
    6. other opportunities based on skin color/nationality/culture.

  24. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    In other words, the problem can only be tackled one person at a time.
    We cannot enforce civility.
    I forgot to add:
    TWISI

  25. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    Update:
    <"what it is that prevents more of you from becoming more TOLERANT faster in preparation for the America of the future,">

    What is "America in the future?"

    What would "more tolerant" look like?

    Who is...   
                                   "YOU"
                                                         referring to?

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      America in the future: far more culturally and ethnically diverse than it is today. We accept people at their face value instead of wondering why they are not more like us, shake off the provincial nature. Its Capt. Kirk, rather than Capt. Bligh. When the disparity in racial experiences and statistics as applies to this society are gone, that is a big start. Tolerant? we can continue to improve without ever really reaching some optimum ideal. How many decimals can you add to the value of pi, approaching an optimum value but never reaching it. But are we on the way toward reaching it? These events over the last few months tell me no.  YOU refers to you and others like you that may want to see a different society but has yet to appreciate the depth and width of the problem  and really have no reliable transport to get to  a solution even if you would be honest enough and forthcoming enough to look harder to SEE what you say is not seen.

  26. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    If creating tolerance includes giving kids less pharmaceuticals, more good nutrition, more exercise/freedom and less stupid ignorant racist indoctrination, I agree.
    If "you" is the pharmaceutical industry, the media, the politicians, I agree.
    If America is still the land of the free under the Constitution of the United States of America in the future, I agree:
    "You" need to get with the program.

  27. CMerritt profile image77
    CMerrittposted 18 months ago

    I think Ben Carson says it all very well...very presidential, unlike our own POTUS, who made it a political issue.


    http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/12482106.jpg

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Nice to see you again CM. While I disagree with your assessment of President Obama's role in this, I certainly cannot take issue with Dr. Carson's comments on this occasion.

  28. promisem profile image94
    promisemposted 18 months ago

    I don't know what makes me more sick -- the extremists with their love of guns or an American society that for the most part doesn't care about these mass murders.

    My daugher took all of her clases in that building where the shootings of 32 students took place at Virginia Tech, and three of her friends were among the dead.

    The idea that more guns will stop gun violence is just plain stupid.

    This isn't a race problem as much as it is a gun problem and a violent, uncaring society problem.

    1. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

      If no one cares, why is everyone talking about it?

      1. promisem profile image94
        promisemposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        Really? Who is everyone? The ones who are talking will move on in a day or two. And nothing will be done about it. Like usual.

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

          What should be "done" about it?

          The guy is obviously going to get a trial and then go to prison. What more can be "done"?

          1. promisem profile image94
            promisemposted 18 months ago in reply to this

            Good question. We need more information about this guy's background, but in the case of the Virginia Tech killer, Tech professors had graded papers describing horrific acts of violence and said nothing. His high school had plenty of information about his severe mental illness and said nothing. The courts had him treated for mental illness and convicted him of stalking women, but did nothing more because Virginia hates gun laws.

            Despite it all, he could buy guns anyway. To your question, close more loopholes to start, identify mentally ill people who show an inclination to violence and do more to stop them if possible from buying guns.

            1. janesix profile image61
              janesixposted 18 months ago in reply to this

              That would take a lot of money,and they won't do it. The mentally ill can't even get into a psych ward unless they specifically say they are going to harm themselves or others.

              The mentally ill are basically let loose on the population. Meds are thrown there way, but many won't take them.

              1. promisem profile image94
                promisemposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                Agreed. Can more be done? Yes, definitely. Is our society willing to do it? So far, only in small steps.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

                  our
                  "society?"
                  You mean the majority of average IQ citizens?
                  We need some higher IQs already.
                  But NOOOO!~
                  Actually, I believe they are coming. They also have big hearts.
                  All is well.

  29. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago

    <"YOU refers to you and others like you that may want to see a different society but has yet to appreciate the depth and width of the problem  and really have no reliable transport to get to  a solution even if you would be honest enough and forthcoming enough to look harder to SEE what you say is not seen.">


    Okay good to know.
    I will never respond to you again.
    ... why would I?

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

      Cmon, don't go away mad. It is not an insult but reality that many white folks have a problem with...

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 18 months ago in reply to this

        I am not going away mad. I do not take it as an insult. As I said there are many stupid ignorant people and to you, I am one of them. Not an insult, just a fact of the matter in your mind.
        So, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.
        - why would I bother?
        You have a mind set and you are comfortable with it.
        Have a good time in YOUR hell.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 18 months ago in reply to this

          You are not stupid, and I did not say that, but you could be naive. Have you ever sat down with a black adult and ask them about their take on your view as to the race question in America? I have been around here for over a half century, and as one of the people who go through this, I am eminently qualified to speak to many of these issues. Trying to share and reveal to you things that can only been seen and appreciate from my side, with the exception of very few.  I am trying to educate you to a world with which you are unfamiliar. It is not your fault that you don't know, from what I have seen most of you don't know.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I am one white person who is not in the slightest bit racist.
              I take all people on the basis of their character. I recognize those who are of bad character and those who are of good character and everything in between.
            My question to you is: Do I seem racist?

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

              If we had more people like you, I mean really like you, not those kind that say nice things but in reality practice or accomodate racism around them even unknowingly, we would not need to have this conversation now.

  30. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    Q. 2  how have you accomplished this in this forum?
    "I am trying to educate you to a world with which you are unfamiliar."

    Case studies/examples of those who " ...in reality practice or accomodate racism around them even unknowingly," would help.
    ...such as "I have a cousin who could not find a job because he was black. The interviewer told him to his face, 'Sorry, you do not have the proper  uh… appearance…'" My cousin understood just fine.
    "My sister was stopped on the street for no reason and the officer said to her, 'You look like a hooker because you are … uh, black.'"


    Really???

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      You can't take offense, when I am trying to share. Some of the things that I have to share are not always pleasant. I don't know if I have accomplished this but it is my mission to get some things across. We need to understand one another better, as communication and REALLY listening is the key...

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        We need to have it spelled out for us, then:
        1. In what SPECIFIC ways do people "practice or accomodate racism around them?"
        2. In what ways do people unknowingly practice racism?
        3. In what ways do people unknowingly accommodate racism?

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Good questions. I'd like to know too.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            It is good to bring it to a conscious level.
            - consciously becoming aware of what we are doing in our day to day thoughts and lives would help. Is the problem obvious? Not to us who don't deal with/recieve this level of discrimination.

            (Actually, I have been profiled and discriminated against in the work world because of my long hair… and I am a female! It is better now… long hair in the work place for females has become much more acceptable.
            Once, I applied to be a maid when I lived on the coast, up north in Mendocino. I was told I was overly qualified!!
            Another time I was profiled to be hippie, called every name in the book, hair yanked back as I sat on the floor with a boot on my back by the arresting officer and thrown in the holding tank for five hours… for nothing! I've told this story before, and Cgenaea said it can happen daily to blacks.)

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

              See, you know something about it, but multiply it 10 fold and you find yourself in the world of Black folks.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                NOT ALL!

        2. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          It will take a little time to gather my evidence to support my point, its coming

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            So you don't have incidents to tell us this very second?
            I did.
            Are you saying you are black but, you yourself have never been dealt a racist hand?

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

              That does not mean that my explanations will be any less convincing upon its presentation.

            2. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Yes, I have been dealt a racist hand: Embarking on my new federal job 28 years ago, my immediatre supervisor resented my presence and would not properly mentor me into my new position. She was a white female, her boss was the reason I got the job. Regardless of the fact that I had a college degree, had prior federal procurement experience, passed the aptitude test with a 96 was a former military officer with leadership experience,   I was black and that reduced me to an affirmative action hire in her mind and in that of many co-workers, never mind that I was qualified far beyond the levels of the disgruntled. This woman was eventually forced to leave because of me and conflicts with her boss as to whether I was being treated fairly.

              Some homework...

              http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/21/news/ec … nequality/

              http://www.crf-usa.org/brown-v-board-50 … stice.html

              I provided some data to janesix when I told her that studies showed that white felons had a better chance of getting a job at interview than those blacks without records, that is astounding and I will dredge the evidence if you insist.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Was your boss white?
                and did it all end in your favor, or did it not?

                These links prove nothing:
                From link 1:

                " Blacks ... typically have lower incomes than whites, which also makes it harder for them to save and build wealth. The median income for black households is less than 60% that of white ones."


                From link 2:

                "The question remains whether these statistics come from racism in the criminal justice system or from other causes. Social scientists and politicians have argued about this question for decades."

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  yes, the boss was white and it ended in my favor, but with the workplace hostility based on race, it could have easily have gone the other way. How do you succeed without a mentor.  They won't prove anything if you are not looking did you cherry pick one sentence or did you look at the evidence provided in the rest of the article. I wonder if you would admit you were in error even if all the evidence was put before you. These kinds of people are not open to considering an alternative to what they believe about people and a situation that they no little if anything about. Hopefully, you are not one of those. My brother and I argued one time about the birth year of Calvin Coolidge, i knew the correct year from memory, he disputed it. When I proved my case with the World Book, he said that encloypedias could be wrong...

                  You are always dissecting things so why the great disparity in wealth, it is not that you white folks are so much smarter than the rest of us. You put forth much that you cannot prove beyond your intuition. How about the hard core of statistics, will you discount that as well?

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    I am a white person at the $30,000 level of income. Is this somehow important at all in some grand scheme?
                    Is it because I have been labeled a hippie who refuses to cut her hair?

                  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    <They won't prove anything if you are not looking did you cherry pick one sentence or did you look at the evidence provided in the rest of the article.>

                    - did you read more than the first couple of paragraphs?

                2. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  here is something just for you, you can dispute these studies but you must counter with factual based data to support your intuitive statements and observations

                  http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/fergus … cial-bias/

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    From link 3
                    '"Many whites -- including many millennials -- believe discrimination against whites is more prevalent than discrimination against blacks.'
                    Racism has evolved, but our language for describing it hasn't, he says."

                    "Colorblind racism is the new racial music most people dance to," he says. "The 'new racism' is subtle, institutionalized and seemingly nonracial."

              2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                him… Janesix is not transexual as far as I know.
                Right, Janesix?

              3. gmwilliams profile image86
                gmwilliamsposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Yes, there is the working while Black syndrome.  Many Blacks in professional and managerial positions are quite aware of this phenomena.  Thankfully, the offender left.  Many times the offender doesn't leave and create a less than pleasant atmosphere for Black professionals and managers.  Blacks have to be 4X to 6X as good as Caucasians in similar positions to get noticed.   Caucasians in many workplaces can get away with things that Blacks would be disciplined for a fraction of.  That is a fact in the corporate world.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Thank you Grace for helping me explain the unexplainable to the incredulous

                  1. gmwilliams profile image86
                    gmwilliamsposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Working while Black is an undeniable fact in the corporate world.  Everyone regardless of race knows this whether he/she acknowledges it or not, IT DEFINITELY EXISTS.  This reminds me of an article when Viola Davis, Academy Award Winner, pointed out that there is racism in Hollywood and the dearth of roles for Black actresses particularly.  Well, Charlize Theron admonished her to be more positive in her attitude and not to say such a statement.  Ms. Davis as a Black woman, a dark-skinned Black woman knows that racism in Hollywood is VISIBLE while Ms. Theron, a blonde Caucasian, hasn't not experienced Hollywood racism.

  31. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    WHY would a twenty year old hate blacks in today's world to the extent that he would KILL them in CHURCH?????
    It makes no sense.

    I hope we can learn why. Its not racism.
    Its a way bigger problem.

    1. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Why do you think so? People have commited much worse atrocities in the name of racism. Look at the Holocaust.

      1. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

        That is a good point!

    2. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      I don't know why either, but obviously he does, explaining the true nature of bigotry is partt of your education.

  32. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    And Hitler was a sane white man not on speed. roll

    1. janesix profile image61
      janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      If you think the Holocaust was the result of the ideas of one insane man, you are kidding yourself.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        They had a leader who was nuts. Germans are still embarrassed about what took place in the name of national pride.

        1. janesix profile image61
          janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Hitler was a puppet, not a leader.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          ...maybe it was a matter of ethnic cleansing for the sake of national pride for this twenty year old.
          Yeah, he was on pharmaceuticals.

          1. janesix profile image61
            janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            WHAT pharmaceuticals? Link, please.

          2. Credence2 profile image85
            Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Cmon, Kathryn, he is a racist, from how many sources do you need to have that confirmed for you? Ethnic cleasing, my foot. He is a cold blooded killer that needs to be dealt the appropriate penalty.

          3. janesix profile image61
            janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            You are close.

            "That's what Roof told investigators, according to one of the officials.

            CNN's Evan Perez and Wesley Bruer were the first to report Roof's confession. Others earlier gave a glimpse into his twisted motivation -- including at the time and site of the shooting, Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. There, a survivor told Sylvia Johnson that Roof answered one man's pleas to stop by saying, "No, you've raped our women, and you are taking over the country ... I have to do what I have to do."

            A friend recalled a drunken Roof ranting one night about his unspecified six-month plan "to do something crazy" in order "to start a race war." And the Berkeley County, South Carolina, government tweeted a picture of him in a jacket with flags from apartheid-era South Africa and nearby Rhodesia, a former British colony that was ruled by a white minority until it became independent in 1980."

            http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charle … ting-main/

        3. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Hitler clearly laid out his plans for world conquest and his racial resentment in his book "Mein Kamph'. While he was mad, there was a method to his madness.

  33. janesix profile image61
    janesixposted 17 months ago

    I honestly don't think the kid was crazy. Just a racist <snipped>.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Right.  Right.  Right.
      I mean, I whole heartedly disagree.
      He was deranged and mentally impaired due to some substance. I could bet a million virtual dollars.
      Blood test results please.
      Is that too much to ask?

      Is it too much to ask to know his background?
      Mom/ Dad?
      Was he raised in daycare since he was six months old?

      1. janesix profile image61
        janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        You insist he was on "pharmaceuticals" yet you have provided no information on this. Yet again.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Its pretty obvious.
          It is exceedingly likely.
          It is an impossibility he was NOT influenced by the habitual use of some type of mind altering substance.
          An utter Impossibility!


          If not substance abuse, abandonment by parents on some level since he was born.
          If this turns out to be the case, put 'em all in jail.

          Hold 'em ALL responsible!

          1. janesix profile image61
            janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            No it isn't. You know nothing and have no proof.

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
              Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              ...something is wrong with his psyche. What caused it, is the question.
              His actions PROVE there is something wrong with his psyche.
              Maybe all racists have impaired psyches.

              I am not using this to excuse racism,(of course,) but maybe this where we can fix the situation.
              As I have mentioned many times before:

                                   **** In Childhood ****

              1. janesix profile image61
                janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Not necessarily. Some people are just jerks.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Jerks are created, they are not natural.
                  Why do I believe this? Because we are in reality souls of God. Some loose their way due to outer circumstances. All racists are jerks. All have been created by bitterness, hatred, arrogance, etc... all negative crap - not natural to the soul.
                  THE WAY I SEE IT


                  FINIS.

                  1. janesix profile image61
                    janesixposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    Nope. You don't seem to understand much about human nature.

  34. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    Furthermore from link 2:
    "... sociologist William Wilbanks rejected the discrimination argument. In his book, The Myth of a Racist Criminal Justice System, Wilbanks reviewed scores of studies that showed statistical inequalities between whites and blacks in arrest rates, imprisonment, and other areas of criminal justice. He found that the inequalities came from factors other than racial discrimination, such as poverty and the defendant’s prior record."

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      RAcial discrimination while not the only factor IS still a factor, do white folks have this obstacle in their way, leaving out poverty and the defendants prior record? I have this one guy that resists, what about the rest of the article. I did present the information in an unbiased way. There are the one or two science guys that deny climate change too...........

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I don't know what you are talking about.
        As far as I know, whites AND blacks are discriminated against if their characters are bad.
        Discrimination:
        "2 recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another." D

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          There is a lot of unprovable conjecture in the article from link 2 such as:
          "Unintended discrimination can occur at many points in the legal process. Probation officers often prepare pre-sentencing reports for a judge. The judge uses the reports to help make sentencing decisions. Reports include information on the criminal’s prior record, family background, education, marital status, and employment history. Many African-Americans convicted of crimes come from deprived backgrounds. They may have things in their record — unemployment, trouble in school, family problems — that judges, who largely come from middle-class backgrounds, cannot relate to. This *may* sway some judges to treat them more harshly in sentencing."
          Maybe its because appropriate justice was served.

          1. Credence2 profile image85
            Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

            "maybe its because appropriate justice was served" oh, eally? The point that is being made is that when black and whites have similar criminal records, blacks are treated more harshly under the criminal justice system.  That is explained by the "bias" (you do remember that term in the CNN article) works against blacks when otherwise all things are equal.

            1. gmwilliams profile image86
              gmwilliamsposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              Credence2 is right on this synopsis.  There is a very differential, even disparate standard of justice in American society and culture. Caucasians receive more preferential treatment in terms of sentencing that Blacks do for the same or similar crimes e.g. the case of George Zimmerman.  If he was Black and killed a Caucasian teenager, he would be sentenced big time.  His race/ethnicity was a huge factor in his being let go.   He was judged by his peers of Caucasian jurors who declared his innocence.  Many Caucasians who murder Blacks were either given light sentences in comparison to their crimes or had their cases dismissed.....

              1. Credence2 profile image85
                Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

                Thanks Grace, I am most grateful for someone of your background and credibility who "has got my back".

  35. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    Could I please remind you that the majority of Americans elected a black man over a white?
    Could I also please remind you we did not have a revolution over his instituting Socialized Health Insurance? We have all cooperated just fine.
    Could I also remind you that President Obama MOST OFTEN gets his way in the White house?

    And as you say yourself:
    "By the policies of the GOP, it is hard to believe that there is not racial animosity coming from that party."

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Not so fast!

      In 2012, 59 percent of whites voted for Romney, in 2008 about 55 percent voted for McCain. The only reason Obama won was the overwhelming support he received from people of color. So, dont pull your arm out of its socket patting yourself on the back.

      The ACA intiative was duly legislated and acted upon by the executive and still, today, having aspects of the program subject to judicial review. We did not have a revolution in regards to the 'New Deal" or Medicaid/Medicare, why should I expect that here?

      Where have you been the last 6 years? Obama and his initiatives has been obstructed by the GOP from the day he took office. So MOST OFTEN is not a term that I would use.
      There is a reason why 1 percent of the black vote in S.Carolina goes to GOP candidates. Voter supression is first that comes to mind, I and and most of us resent the attempt to restrict and discourage our access to the ballot. Blacks, as a poorer subset of the larger society,  are simply not going to receive support from a party that caters to the wealthy.

  36. aware profile image72
    awareposted 17 months ago

    Promptly  put this red handed killer  to death. He in no way  represents  the vast magority  of  anglos.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Thats it, aware!

  37. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    Well, you want to reveal your view of of politics and I want to defend whites by reminding you that all people are of God and have souls. But, this fact is buried and hidden to varying degrees throughout society. You cannot hate people just because they are fallible humans. Also, you seem to take a victim role. Why? You are a child of God.

    You seem to hate whites. YOU seem racist against whites, quite frankly.
    So, I guess I am done.
    I find whites irritating as well, but I cannot hate.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      I am not attacking youand whites in general, just trying to reveal operating factors of our culture, I don't even think that most of you are aware of its implications, and I don't blame you for it. It is a very clever and insidious system put in place before most of us were aware and conscious. But, if you really want to improve things you have to be open to its existence. Grace has corroborated this for you, she is not attacking whites. She is saying the same thing I am.

      Besides, some of my best friends are white!

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        But you do seem very negative for some reason.
        why the anger?
        what specifically are you angry about?
        maybe it is not even a black/ white issue. Maybe it is one of the injustice of the world… The outer world.
        I can't stand it, myself.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Not negative, realistic, based on a tapestry, a pattern that has been evident over many generation here in America. Kumbaya is not going to solve the problem of acknowleging the need for respect between us, today under our current reality on Planet Earth, now.

          This is about education, not anger. And like I said before, sometimes the truth hurts....

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            Respect. yes. I, for one, agree.

            Thank you for educating me.

        2. Don W profile image83
          Don Wposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Kathryn, let's cut to the chase. Do you believe that all black people who recount personal experiences of racism, are just pretending, or are somehow mistaken? And do you believe that every academic study, article, social experiment, and statistic that indicates that racism exists in various forms, is wrong? Is that what you believe?

          I ask, because it seems as though you are in complete denial that racism exists, and I don't want to accuse you of being unreasonable if that's not really what you are saying.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I am saying that we can get over it faster if we just let nature take its course. It was on the way out. I still think its just being made up to get us to hate each other. There is an attack on our country from without/ from within. Dividing us up is one way to seize control. United we stand. Why can't we stand together? Because we keep focusing and pinpointing something which will go away of its own accord and has gone away to a huge extent. Only individuals wishing to see the best in each other, accepting each other and respecting each other can get past the hatreds, injustices and hurts of the past. If y'all are trying to find a solution that is one thing… If you just want to complain and pinpoint and say there is no solution, that is another.
            I am all about a solution… and not one that comes from the gov't. or political policies/agendas.

            My mother taught PE at the Jr. College level and enjoyed her experience at a black-majority community college. I was brought up knowing we are all God's children.
            http://www.lasc.edu

            1. Don W profile image83
              Don Wposted 17 months ago in reply to this

              I don't understand. Do nothing and racism will disappear by itself? Is that what you're saying?

              You also say "[racism] was on the way out". But surely any progress made in racial equality is mostly because of the blood, sweat and tears of all the people over the years who have contributed to the civil rights movement. And that was ultimately started with a bloody civil war. Is that what you consider to be "nature taking its course"? I don't follow your argument.

  38. aware profile image72
    awareposted 17 months ago

    Black and white are not skin tones ,silly  racists.

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

      ...so true!  piano keys, yes.

      1. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

        Most unfortunate that you had that experience in Altadena.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Well, I never went back.  I chalk it up to mis-trust. But, I was not there it hurt anyone.

  39. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 17 months ago

    A prayer by Rabbi Harold Kushner:

    A Prayer for the World

    "Let the rain come and wash away ancient grudges and bitter hatreds held and nurtured over generations.

    Let the rain wash away the memory of the hurt, the neglect.

    Then, let the warmth of the sun heal us wherever we are broken.

    Let it burn away the fog so we can see each other clearly...

    So we can see beyond the labels, beyond accents, gender or skin color.

    Let the warmth and brightness of the sun melt our selfishness so we can share the joys and feel the sorrows of our neighbors.

    Let the earth, nourished by the rain, bring forth flowers to surround us with beauty.

    Let the mountains teach our hearts to reach upward to heaven."

    Amen

 
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