Hate Crime: Church shooting in South Carolina

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Motherbynatureposted 8 years ago
A white man walked into a church and shot down 9 people, including a pastor. Rightfully it is being considered a hate crime. The coward is still at large.

Are you shocked that this happened in 2015?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  A "man?" A Millennial with a very bad start in life.
  What we see are symtoms of issues unknown. Let his mother sit in on the trial. Let her know every second of pain her son has had to endure throughout his life and now has to go through… all of which I absolutely believe she contributed to.
  He could have been left sleeping peacefully in the arms of the angels.
  What was she thinking back in the middle of the nineties having sex with such an incredible controlling jerk as that man…(the sperm-donor who would eventually give him a gun on his twenty-first birthday.)
  
  I guess she wasn't.
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psycheskinnerposted 8 years ago
In a town with two KKK chapters, horrified but not surprised. Spree shootings happen every year for some twisted reason or another.
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ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
Truly a hate crime is right , the justice system no longer functions when the costs are exorbitant , the results are pitiful , and the punishment of ALL such crime is no longer popular to Americans ,
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ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
Again , why you're looking for simplified answers that please a political cause is beyond belief . A drug and alcohol addict with a gun from a broken family seeking an identity in an idiots fashion , nothing more ! This isn't about slavery , Lincoln , republicans or world racism . It's about one more idiot with an identity crisis complex .
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  In this case, the man was a white supremacist who admitted to the cops that he wanted to kill black people. What more would you need to consider this a racist act?
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Here we are again with an over simplification of complex issues , let's make it about race -only ! Not drug and alcohol use , mental health , family health , cultural wars , Is it all because we need simplified answers ? that way you get to simply file this away as a belief that "they all -hate us all "
  Sad part is , it will happen over and over while no one attacks the real issues.
  
  And of the real issues , we turn our collective our heads away and ignore .
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I don't recall anyone looking for mental health or self-esteem issues in the DC snipers or the 911 terrorists. Hatred is not a mental illness.
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No it isn't about" self esteem " -nor is it about race ! We can't fix real problems of our society if we don't accept the real reasons . ..... Our problem though , is when we blame a whole race of people because of the acts of a single one and Isn't that what we're doing ?
  
  Isn't that just simplification of complex issues ?
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  @ahorseback, I am tending to go along with the points you are raising here.
  
  Many families are grieving here. For some people, death has not even taken care of the pain and anguish they are going through.... Suffering must continue for some time yet. They will need courage and patience for their wounds to get healed.
  For the family of the murderer, their lives have been changed for ever. They will continue to hurt until the day they die.
  For the murderer himself, he faces a long-drawn-out trial period and then, if and when he is found guilty, if and when he is condemned to death, that itself will be a time of hell in some way or another.
  So much horror, so much unhappiness has been brought about by this senseless act of multiple killing.
  But can't you just step back, let the facts sink in, share your sadness, your grief, your condolences, your compassion in whatever way you find possible? Instead of throwing your own prejudice into the ring and blaming, judging, condemning, showing so much hatred?
  If any one of you has some kind of faith, conviction, that attitude of forgiveness as expressed by those people of the Congregation, then let it have a genuine expression. This is probably one of the most genuine expressions coming out of the whole business.... and I am not a Christian, but I can really respect their actions in trying to emulate the Person they worship.
  The murderer himself is most probably suffering from a form of psychosis, but I am in no way qualified to say if he is or not. Suffice to say he needs a compassionate understanding too.
  We don't have a perfect world to live in. It's the working out of day-to-day circumstances the best we can manage....that's our reason for living, in my understanding of it.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The killer himself said it is about race? Why do you get to try to shame people for reacting to actual facts? Maybe he's crazy. Maybe he's not. What's not a mystery is his motivation for killing. Why do you feel the need to rebuke people of the race that he targeted? What he did isn't a reflection on all white people, so why then do you feel the need to answer for him by dismissing his own admission and confession by trying to advocate for his social/mental issues? You say not all white people yet here you are nominating yourself as his advocate and defense minister? Is that your burden?
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Race" is, in my understanding, a misnomer. It does not exist except in the minds of ignorant, prejudiced people.
  Black, brown, pink, we are all human. The notion of "race" is an idea fueled by an animal instinct that rejects anything which appears different.
  I warmly shake the hand of any person, with any colour of skin, provided there is mutual human connection of good will and desire to explore a relationship with each other.
  That young man got a fixation in his mind about some kind of inherent badness in another person's skin colour. That is irrational, nonsensical, blind ignorance. Yes, someone, somewhere has fed and nourished such thoughts in his mind. But ultimately it's his responsibility to act out the way he did, IF he is sound in his mind. IF he has a mental illness that prevents him keeping a rational and level-headed view of life, then he needs to have that considered. That's all I am trying to say.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tell that to the Affirmative Action advocates.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I do understand what you're saying. Get to the root of the problems and not just keep putting a band aid on a bullet wound. Still, the symptoms must be addressed because they are literally killing people. While I wait for white supremacist parents to stop giving their children guns as gifts, I would like to be able to go to church and live as a black person without fear.
  
  Also, the point i was trying to make is that when gun crimes happen in the ghetto nobody EVER closely examines anything. There are so many mentally ill teens that have been raped, beaten, abandoned...no one cares. They shoot or rob someone and it's never examined because "that's just what blacks do".
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "While I wait for white supremacist parents to stop giving their children guns as gifts, I would like to be able to go to church and live as a black person without fear."
  
  Yes, because white people obviously do those things every day.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't see the word "supremacist" in there? I do. i'm looking right at it.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, most white people aren't "supremecists". Please stop fear mongering.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You can't silence me. Anybody with the most basic reading comprehension skills can see that I am talking about a distinct group of white people. Not all white people. Know why I didn't say not all white people? Because I qualified it by using the word supremacist to narrow it down. I can't break it down any further for you. I can speak on white supremacists if I want to. If you're not one of them why are you so upset? I was talking about how Dylann Roof got a gun as a birthday gift FROM HIS PARENTS. Get off my ass. You know exactly what I meant.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Get off my ass."
  Thats a little rude. !
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't realize I was "so upset" I'm not the one being a drama queen around here.
  
  I am, however, tired of seeing white people getting dissed on and labled as racists constantly.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Calling me a drama queen is sexist and lazy of you. And quite typical. I can't express a view, especially passionately, without being labeled as dramatic?
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  wba108@yahoo.composted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This is just another politicization of a tragedy. The bodies of the victims weren't even cold before politicians and the media made this about a political agenda. A careful review of the facts regarding race and violence refute this agenda but they choose to push it anyway, as a political opportunity among the leaders and an unthinking and emotional response by the uninformed.
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  Ms LaLa2014posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I was shocked that the young White man came into the church and shot all the people in it, until I recently watched the movie "Woman Thou Art Loosed" by Rev. T.D. Jakes. I was shocked to see in the movie that it started out with the actress coming in the church and pulling out a gun in the church.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This is the best message possible, in my opinion. People seem to satisfied with the simple and most shallow of views. Why, ahorseback? His course was set in childhood and he had help. He had help in his down-ward spiral. To know the force of that down-ward spiral would help expand awareness and help parents be able to prevent this result in the future… and we know it keeps happening.
  Why? Something in childhood went wrong... ritalin/adderal, usually…
  
  (But OF COURSE, due process of the law IS required.)
  
  Sadly… we could just let him be a reflection of all whites.
  Or we could take the "color" off the issue. We are all fallible and un-knowing humans.
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  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, not you again!!
  
  This is not a reflection of all whites, just those that refuse to see what is in front of them. Healing comes by everybody first just admitting the truth, instead of the spin being placed on events by Fox News and GOP presidential candidates. Even your revered Dr. Carson faces and asks the nation to face reality as to the source and cause of the Roof massacre. Do you still want him for President? You have an apple pie, it is hard to say that the apples did not have a starring role. You have heard that this fellow, Roof, has been following a white supremacist group where much of his "manifesto' was inspired. Oddly enough this same group contributed to the campaigns of Paul, Santorum and Cruz for the 2016 run. While not as shocking as the shootings, I have to wonder what the supremacist group hoped to gain by giving their money and support to these candidates?
  
  P.S.- Ahorseback is wrong as well......
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting ..... I just listened to our President Obama say the n............word in public , I personally even find HIM saying it offensive . I could never dream of even using that word without actually throwing up ! That's how prejudiced I am , and yet our President thinks nothing of fueling a race debate ! What a perfect example of double standards . Keep up the good work President Obama .
  
  Until this country AND especially it's representative government officials , including president Obama , begin to acknowledge the other issues here , alcoholism , drug abuse , mental health issues, school drop outs, in an instance like this - no one else will !
  
  But hey , lets just push the big race button , those of you who simply love the P.C of it .
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Dylan Roof: "I killed them because they were Black."
  
  South Carolina Police: "This was a hate crime."
  
  ahorseback: "Why are Black people trying to make this about race?!"
  
  True story. I can't make this crap up..lol
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Some people refuse to see the obvious.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Alleged Charleston church shooter Dylann Roof had a history of arrests and drug use prior to going on a deadly killing spree, says law enforcement.
  
  Before going into Emanuel AME Church, a historic African-American church and killing nine of its members, Roof had been arrested for a series of crimes ranging from trespassing to possession of a controlled substance.
  
  As reported in the Daily Beast, a high school classmate of Roof, John Mullins, said Roof was no stranger to drug use. “He used drugs heavily a lot,” said Mullins. In addition to marijuana, Roof took a variety of pills. " He was like a pill popper, from what I understood. Like Xanax, and stuff like that" Mullins added.
  
  According to a CBS News report, Roof was searched by law enforcement in February, 2015 after employees of a South Carolina Bath and Body Works store called to complain that a person fitting Roof's description was in their store behaving strangely. When searched, police found “orange strips” that Roof told officers was Suboxone, a narcotic that is used to treat opiate addiction. Suboxone is classified as a habit-forming drug often connected with sudden outbursts of aggression.
  
  In addition to a history of arrests and drug use, Roof is said to have exhibited racist views. “He made a lot of racist jokes, but you don’t really take them seriously like that. You don’t really think of it like that” said Mullins, who added "but now the things he said were kind of not joking.”
  
  According to police, an un-named survivor of Wednesday night's attack says Roof announced during the shooting “I have to do it. You’re (African-Americans) raping our women and taking over the country. You have to go.”
  
  Roof, who was arrested in North Carolina less than 24 hours after the killing spree, was given a .45-caliber pistol for his birthday in April by his father according to his uncle, Charles Cowles. Law enforcement has not disclosed whether or not that weapon was used in the killings."
  http://www.ibtimes.com/what-drugs-was-d … er-1973919
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You don't give a kid like this a gun. You just don't:
  
  " Roof was a student at White Knoll High School in Lexington. His classmates said he was a drug user. “He used drugs heavily, a lot,” John Mullins, who attended the same high school as Roof, told the Daily Beast. “It was obviously harder than marijuana. He was like a pill popper, from what I understood. Like Xanax and stuff like that.”
  
  What was the dad thinking?
  What kind a person is this dad.
  Why not reveal?
  Why not?
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for this background Kathryn. So it would seem the young man is not the only guilty one in that community.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Johnny.
  United we Stand.
  I hate to sound corny but...
  I love America.
  America stands for hope for the world,
  as long as we do not fall to the soft despotism of a social democracy...
  or WORSE!
  (which could easily happen!!!!)
  We have to read and understand the basis for the Constitution and make sure to elect honest politicians.
  And trust in God.
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psycheskinnerposted 8 years ago
Indeed, the killer explicitly killed them for being black. I cannot understand why anyone would object to people agreeing that is why he did it. That is why he did it. End of.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. We can't change facts just because they make us uncomfortable. Life doesn't work that way.
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psycheskinnerposted 8 years ago
We are all, on some level, a member of some group with a tarnished history and a troubled present. I see no point in trying to evade or deny that. Culturally speaking I am living in the US as part of the group labelled as "white". This makes me, whether I like it or not, part of a group that benefits from, and suffers from, and is part of, racism. I am not myself deliberately biased in any way but this tragedy reminds me to be alert to my unconscious biases and proactive in opposing racism when I see it around me.

I am both more complex in my heritage and more simple in my core human identity than the label of "white" which I never used until moving to the US in 1999. But no act of will will cause me to not be part of the race issue in this country any more than I can choose to not be part of the immigrant issue--I can just choose whether to be a loving, actively anti-bigotry and anti-hate part, or a person in deep denial.
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fpherj48posted 8 years ago
I don't believe one can be more boldly explicit than to intentionally search online for BLACK churches, drive to that specific church & wiggle his way into their study, giving him time and opportunity to have a change of heart....Even as nice and as kind as they were to him, he was unfazed.......all he saw was that they were BLACK.
He looked them in the face and TOLD them he was killing them BECAUSE they were BLACK. It simply gets no more clearly RACIST than that.
The high possibility that he is also mentally damaged is a secondary issue here. That's really all there is to it. Period, the end.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes Paula, I understand what you say and cannot disagree with you. Such discrimination is evil and we all need to fight it.
  But in the context of my previous post, I still believe the most positve approach to illiminating such prejudice is education leading to more understanding of the reasons behind all of this hatred.
  Without understanding we all fall into the endless pit - there can be not future for a civilised society.
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  fpherj48posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely Johnny...couldn't agree with you more. "What the World Needs Now...." Now, if only one of us here can remember where we left our magic wand. The entire concept is more disheartening than we can bear.
  Will we EVER reach that place we all know we should be?
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ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
This problem in America will never be cured and WHY?
This is only a hate crime !
Because O.P.,
This isn't about godless , broken and dysfunctional families
This isn't about the free range recreational drug use culture in many Americans.
This isn't about alcohol use to extremes .
This isn't about a culture of dissociative and broken families and child rearing .
This isn't about missing Fathers in all races .
This isn't about young men and women slipping through the cracks of our schools and societies care.
This isn't about guns going unaccounted for in homes or in the hands of mental cases.
This isn't about the venomous divisiveness our media perpetrates constantly .
This isn't about an entire Administration in the white house that see's rioting as all of our societal solutions .

No , lets give this one simple easy to understand label , Hate crime !
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. So- what do you do about it? Shoot him and hope that puts an end to hate crimes?
  Pray for him? Hope he gets taken up in the arms of your God?
  Lock him up for life? Out of sight, out of mind, let some one else shoulder the problem?
  What if you find there are 5000 more individuals with the same poisoned minds like his?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  " What if you find there are 5000 more individuals with the same poisoned minds like his?"
  Why would you?
  You wouldn't.
  
  Why would you ask such a thing?
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I ask such a thing because it's important within any community to "look within," both for the individual and for society at large. It is entirely possible to be so horrified at the actions of one individual, that we fail to look in the mirror.
  From what I have seen of President Obama speaking, he also is calling his people to take a good look at themselves.
  Many succeed in doing that. The more the better.
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  fpherj48posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Ed. It should be clear that "Hate" is the culprit and the motivator......and your entire list above plays a part in some way to feed and stoke the monster named "Hate." Wouldn't you agree?
  
  Johnny.......5000 more is just a drop in the Ocean of Hate. This thread is depressing me. You too?
  
  What is "hate" if racism isn't a big part of it?
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This thread is absolutely depressing. What's depressing to me is that there are people who think racism is so 1957. They don't understand that the same men who burned Emmett Till in 1955 are about the same age as my grandfather. I wasn't even born then but my mother was born the next year in 1956. She's now 59 years old. My mother was born in Louisiana and in her young lifetime Black people have been hanged and burned and dragged behind vehicles. The men who killed Emmett were found not guilty. What happened to them? They burned a child alive and went back to work. They raised children. Do they think their children grew up free of hatred for black people? Do they think that all the children who were brought up in that racist culture just disappeared and took all the racism with them? Or do they think that racism just went our of style like a Members Only jacket?
  
  The racist people you see in historical Time photos screaming at black children who were walking into segregated schools have children who are roughly the same age as my mother. Some of those people were young teens and children who are now in their 70's and 80's. Do you think their hatred for blacks simply disappeared with the passage of civil rights laws? No. The laws gave us opportunity and more protection and rights, but it certainly didn't erase the hate that allowed a grown white woman to hurl a large rock upside a little girl's head as she walked to school. So the hate had to manifest in other ways like the old man who vowed not to hire blacks even if they were qualified. Or the teacher who decided that all her "smart" black students were cheaters. Nowadays it's the social media fucktard who hides behind a screen and an avatar and trolls people's accounts just to spread hate. It's the college professor that told me I didn't belong in her advanced English Lit class because I didn't share her love for Virginia Woolf. Racism is not dead. It's just dressed differently.
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  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I know that both of the men responsible for Emmett Till's murder have died since 1955 of natural causes. Yes, it just dressed differently
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colorfuloneposted 8 years ago
I was hoping to wake up this morning with something positive on my heart and mind, but it is this aftermath that was right there in the forefront once again. My heart aches.
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peeplesposted 8 years ago
This shooting happened in my hometown, the day before my birthday, while we were on vacation in our hotel just 5 minutes away. It fits the definition of "hate crime" in every way. Once found guilty he should be executed immediately instead of wasting tax dollars dragging it out for years and years. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest. My facebook feed was filled today with people supporting the confederate flag during all of this while claiming it isn't racism but "history". A lot of history is hate. When a part of history hurts an entire part of the population we should reconsider celebrating it. Don't get me wrong, people are entitled to their own beliefs and if they want to fly the confederate flag on their own property they should be allowed to. However flying it on the statehouse is pointless. If it is hurtful to such a large part of the population why keep doing it? It doesn't erase history by taking it down. It just shows some empathy.
There are times when I am truly ashamed to be from and live in the state of South Carolina.
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  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your reasonable assessment of this matter. Don't be too hard or single out South Carolina, similar problems exist in sister states throughout the region, it is just that like the start of the Civil War, South Carolina was first.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Why would she speak on other states she doesn't live in? I respect that she speaks only on what she has first-hand experience in. A lot of times people speak on cities and communities they have never even visited, let alone lived in. Of course these problems exist EVERYWHERE but let those people speak to what they see because they are the ones living in it.
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  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I am simply asking her not to be too hard on herself. She is to be commended for her insight as it is obvious that there are plenty of people there that do not have it. They should be more ashamed than she. As I respect her 'first hand' experience.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for visiting the forum, peeples. I have a few close friends in South Carolina that I chat with just about everyday online. The good people of SC vastly out numbers the bad seed. I hope you have a safe and happy summer.
  God's speed!
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Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago
While we wait for all parents to get a clue.
The first six years of life sets a child's course for life. The environment is absorbed by the child. The environment must be good, descent and physically/intellectually enriching if we want our children to be good, descent, strong and smart. Dylann Roof's childhood should be revealed to us. It would be VERY interesting to know his biography.

It should be mandatory----> Once in jail, prisoners must write (or be helped to write) their own autobiography. (Those who don't like to write would think twice before robbing or killing… at least!! Hhaa hah ha! )
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Here is an article that profiles Dylann Roof's father Franklin Roof as abusive.
  
  http://www.bostonnewstime.com/regional/ … other.html
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  peeplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I totally understand empathizing with horrible childhoods, however I see far too many things (off HP) where people are defending him based on that childhood. Over 70% of serial killers are abused as children, still doesn't excuse what they choose to do as adults. I am sorry he went through what he did, but I really hope that this doesn't turn into people feeling sorry for this POS for a human! Plenty of people have horrible childhoods and turn out fine. (again not saying childhood doesn't play a factor, just ultimately we are responsible for our own actions)
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This couldn't be better said , Why does it seem like the worst childhoods can ,....CAN , produce the best people ! I often think that childhoods of "older " days had a certain amount of ,what we today would call abuse , yet , Todays incidents of violence seem far worse .
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ahorseback: It has to do with the beginnings of their lives. And today's children, especially those born into shaky, psychologically unfit homes, have access, as children and teens, (their formative years,) to horrible violent video games, philosophies, ETCETERA, on the internet, and sick movies.
  Many aspects of modern American life are truly PATHETIC.
  Racism is the least of our worries, if you ask me.
  Our utter lack of spiritual values as promoted by movies, video games and the media comes in the name of Freedom. Yet, we want to give up the very thing which gives us boundaries required for true freedom: Spiritual values / religion.
  
  And religion needs to step up to the table and discover ways to be more relevant.
  Churches need to discover and reveal the science behind what they preach, if you ask me, which no one did.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that children need to be protected form the disgusting parts of society.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, janesix: PROTECTED!
  Because they (the disgusting parts of society) destroy a child's connection to his true self which is of God/Spirit. We need to protect children so that they can be in touch with their own true selves
  and their own true inner-lives,
  where joy, peace and love reside
  and operate.
  -stronger the connection the better...
  for the sake of their own happiness,
  which they are BORN with.
  This (the responsibility to protect) is where the parents have a big challenge today.
  But, they must rise to the occasion, or results like this will increase.
  
  You Know Its True
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  peeplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Quite honestly I don't think lack of spirituality or violent movies and video games have anything to do with it. It's easy to blame the video games or blame the movies and music. When it comes down to it what a child does when they grow up has to do usually with the mental stability of the person which is both environmental and how they were born. If a child is mentally healthy and has the right parental guidance movies and video games will have zero impact on how a child turns out. Even with mental illness it can have zero impact.
  Alot of the problems these days has to do with a lack of parents at home or the lack of discipline at home. I don't spank my kids, BUT they know I discipline them. They know what is acceptable behavior and they know if they over step those boundaries they will regret it. Sadly the big difference in many kids these days is the lack of parents doing their jobs. Also racism is taught, that comes from the parents usually, not strangers or movies. For the record I would be willing to bet that the majority of racist identify as being religious (read Christian here in the USA) Kathryn. It's great if religion works for some parents, but lets not pretend that being religious has anything to do with parental abilities considering the majority of the US identifies as being Christian and we have half a million foster kids each year.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Children do absorb values from movies. How could they not?
  They absorb from the music and the games. How could they not? And they abosrb the values around them whether home or internet.
  
  Dylann actually had a moment of connection to his soul when he noted from within himself that the people felt he had to shoot were actually nice!
  He had a twinge of conscience, but the false doctrines he had absorbed
  obliterated his connection to his soul's (true self's) more accurate perceptions.
  what won?
  -the outer crap he had absorbed, not the inner sense of true reality.
  His connection was too weak.
  
  That connection had not been protected as one can easily determine from the reports of his home life.
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  peeplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My point was if a child is absorbing values from movies, games, or music then their parents obviously were not doing their jobs.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Many movies influenced me as a child and I wish I hadn't seen them. My parents didn't know that such seemingly tame movies would affect me. Parents have to be pretty careful what they allow their kids to watch.
  In my opinion, too many movies expose a child to sex way too early. And these are watched in one's own home! ~ really… who knows what kids are exposed to these days! Parents wrongly assume the kids are not watching or don't care, but I've seen (while in other people's homes) four year olds watching the "bad" parts quite intently… They do absorb it. I for one am quite convinced. Recently, I worked with a four year old in a daycare situation in the public school. This little girl kept wanting to reenact (?) inappropriate situations in the doll house. She would try get little boys to participate, if they were unwilling, girls would do. The aides kept having to stop her. But, everyday the same impulse... every day!
  
  Back in the day, the movie Jaws really scared a lot of people away from swimming!
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  peeplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Again this goes back to parenting. My children are taught that 100% of what they watch on tv is fake. I don't want my daughter thinking she is suppose to act like a princess or a diva, and I don't want my boys thinking their lives are made up of guns and working. (or other similar thinking) It's a matter of teaching the children that the things they are watching are not things to absorb or take seriously. My parents were pretty crappy, but I watched movies that were clearly not for kids. My parents taught me the difference between tv and reality. I never "absorbed" any of it into my life because I was taught that it was all 100% crap.
  The girl you described sounds like she is just blindly being put in front of a tv without the parent/s doing their job. People have got to stop blaming movies, music, and video games and place that blame on the parents who fail to teach their children basic right from wrong, discipline, and manners.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I go along with much of what you are both (Kathryn and Peeples) are saying, but one question remains: whatever parents are trying to teach their children, are the parents getting much support from the community around them?
  When business interests, church interests, political interests weigh in on those home lives, the parents' positions can be overwhelmed, I suggest.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Dylann actually had a moment of connection to his soul when he noted from within himself that the people felt he had to shoot were actually nice!
  He had a twinge of conscience, but the false doctrines he had absorbed
  obliterated his connection to his soul's (true self's) more accurate perceptions."
  
  That to me sounds like someone who was brain washed.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It happens... to the unprotected.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My thinking is more that there was a covert agenda.
  Which includes a pigeon that could easily be manipulated.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes… like the guy who shot John Lennon…
  
  one really wonders what is going on…
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_David_Chapman
  
  but Chapman's background reveals true problems.
  So, maybe not. It's so easy to think conspiracy.
  
  Here was HIS early start:
  "Chapman stated that as a boy, he lived in fear of his father, who he said was physically abusive towards his mother and unloving towards him. Chapman began to fantasize about having king-like power over a group of imaginary "little people" who lived in the walls of his bedroom. Chapman attended Columbia High School in Decatur, Georgia. By the time he was fourteen, Chapman was using drugs, skipping classes, and he once ran away from home to live on the streets of Atlanta for two weeks …"
  "In 1977, Chapman attempted suicide by carbon monoxide asphyxiation. He connected a hose to his car's exhaust pipe, but the hose melted and the attempt failed. A psychiatrist admitted him to Castle Memorial Hospital for clinical depression."
  The article reveals more, regarding his disagreement with John Lennon's hypocrisy in general…
  But even as he was planning to kill John Lennon, he would see "Thou shall not kill… reflected from his subconscious…
  
  He too, had *somehow* lost connection to his deeper self.
  In my view, it was in early childhood.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Here is the official photo of Dylann entering the church.
  Download it and enlarge it and tell me if you think it has been photoshoped.
  
  Its easy to see.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  What do you see? the gun?
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly how did that help the friendly church that welcomed him with open arms? I see your point but part of freedom of religion includes freedom FROM religion, which a lot of people choose. The church has no influence of their lives.
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  fpherj48posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  peeples...you are absolutely being realistic and making a lot of sense. This sort of "thing" is never caused by any one influence or a shaky childhood or lack of "religion." Not at all. It's a process and a combination of so much. You're in the correct lane of thought.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, each person is responsible for his own actions, but when mental illness and drugs is part of the scenario, the parents' influence should be understood. We can learn and understand what contributes to this type behavior, rather than immediately label it as evidence of increased racism in the US.
  
  TWISI
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  We are all on the right path to trying to understand how this can happen.
  There is more to it while laws are being passed and this is on the news.
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  
  One day we may once again hold the individual perpetrator responsible for his [her] individual act against humanity Instead of somehow blaming everyone else ! For that to happen though we will have to stop all the idealizing , Idolizing and Idiot-izing by our media !
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Say that!
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  His mother abandoned him, (on some level for whatever reason,)
  what more needs to be said.
  The tragedy goes to his very beginnings.
  
  Please note:
  1. If the parents cannot commit to the physical and psychological well-being and care of the child for the first six years, it is a problem since this is the period of the development of the child's psyche.
  
  2. If a child does not bond with at least one parent, that child is in a terrible rage.
  
  Lets bring forth the mother.
  What is her name? What is her story.
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fpherj48posted 8 years ago
colorfulone....Thanks for the link (I think) I read it. Good grief, I can't find words. From 15 yrs old on, it appears Dylan raised himself the majority of the time and the rest of the time, he lived with an abusive, hard-hearted father. What a shame. I know it's a familiar story, but it is a sad and most unfortunate history.

"NOW" is the reality we see and with which we must cope. Once again racism rears it's ugly head and stares us all in the face. Ignoring or denying are NOT options. Not now not ever.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It was premeditated murder by a racist. Paula, it is just too much for me to comprehend that kind of hatred.
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colorfuloneposted 8 years ago
Kathryn L Hill, I couldn't respond to your post "What do you see? the gun?" here: http://hubpages.com/forum/post/2745573

I see white lines where they should NOT be around Roof and very dark lines where they should not be. His right hand and nose have been touched up and a boot, and how does a t-shirt stick out like that from under a sweat shirt?

Added: Even on the edge of a white building, where the heck did that black line come from? Its a bad job if this is suppose to be evidence.

What about that car license plate? That is laughable.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Most or all of the pictures have been enhanced by the FBI because they were captured from a surveillance camera. If you look at the original video clips you'll see how blurry it looks.
  
  Why do you think someone would photoshop this?
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peeplesposted 8 years ago
I wanted to add one last thing to the conversation. Today I realized a comparison. People who cry racism over EVERY single thing are like women who falsely cry rape. They aren't helping the cause, they are hurting it. It would be nice if we could actually only call out REAL racism.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, which is a discussion about an actual murderously racist tragedy.
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  peeplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Actually it was directly related to the Dylan Roof case and hate crimes which was the whole point of this thread. It's sad that so many see something like this happen and then take away from the lessons that can be learned by suddenly calling things racism that aren't (or ignoring things that are). How are we suppose to stop all of it if we can't even be honest about it? I'm sorry, I assumed that when you asked "Are you shocked that this happened in 2015?" I could include thoughts of contributing factors. Didn't know you had a list of things that could and could not be contributed to the public thread that IS about racism, not just this one guy. Plenty of the posts in this thread are talking about general racism not just Dylan Roof.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't trying to shut you down or dismiss your opinion. I'm trying to keep it on topic actually. If you noticed, this thread has deviated more than once just because someone makes a generalized comment "Oh yeah? Well what about...." and then everyone piles onto that. We ended up arguing about mental illness and drugs all the way down to how Roof's photos have been photoshopped. I have commented on those also.
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  peeplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I thought my comment was very on topic. I find it sad that we are in 2015 and still fighting over what is and what isn't racism. People screaming things are racism that aren't takes away from helping stop it (stopping it, to me is the big picture in stopping people like Roof). That was my only point in that post.
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  Motherbynatureposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My apologies on that. After re-reading my first comment I see how it came across. I do see your point on fighting over racism. I was trying to say that arguing and trying to cast a wide net in many discussions is dismissive of what really happened. Instead of talking about the victim or victims and regarding their loss of life, many times we end up vomiting statistics all over each other. I don't know how we can have a real discussion about racism in this country but we surely need several moderators from different walks of life to help us out. I think it can be done.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I suggest it's to do with a young man with a seriously unbalanced view of the world. How do you cope with that reality? The beloved people who were killed in such horrible circumstances are way out of it now. WE are left with how to slot those circumstances and the experience into our lives, and continue to live with the facts.
  
  Arguing over racism and horror will not help us, any of us, to get on with life....in my humble opinion.
  
  Other opinions will want to hang onto the Dark Side, exploit it no end, throw accusations, blame, keep remembering....
  
  Instead, do something; say something; be something/someone who gives those surviving loved ones hope and support in their bereavement. Help them to rise above it all. THEY started started the process of healing by offering forgiveness, right from the word go. If that is being Christian, then maybe we all need to honour their example, belief systems or not.
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  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No, Johnny, This is not some random lightning strike from the sky. For the Black Community we can forgive but it is not wise to forget. Is the imputus and influence that drove Roof to the act of terror understood and addressed to the greatest extent practical so that we can avoid a reoccurrence.
  
  Otherwise what you are suggesting is most appropriate.
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  jonnycomelatelyposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Credence, I just don't have further answers... I don't know the facts with that young man. I must leave it to those who are closest to him. Just to say that my heart and mind is in the healing mode, but certainly not to forget it....agreeing with you on that one.
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  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Understood, thanks!
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