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OH NO You Say

  1. gmwilliams profile image85
    gmwilliamsposted 16 months ago

    Despite the United States Supreme Court ruling stating that same sex marriage is to be allowed, Denton County, Texas made the decision to DENY marriage to same sex couples.  Allowing same sex marriage is now the law of the land.  Well, there are some who insist on not acknowledging progress......Discuss

    1. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Any believer with scriptural knowledge and understanding knows that we are to obey the authorities, EXCEPT where the law or ruling concerned is opposed to Gods stated position, i.e. where acceptance would bring believers into conflict with Gods rulings.

      At that point, we must NOT obey the erroneous ruling or law, whilst standing patiently by to suffer whatever penalty the secular world chooses to enforce.

      That may not make sense to the secular world, but God is the believers SUPREME COURT before which we will ALL be required to answer for our words, deeds, thoughts and actions.

      If I have to choose between disobedience to God or disobedience to the secular world, it's no contest.

      God wins.

      Hebrews 13:4
      Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

      Nowhere is scripture does marriage refer to other than a man and a woman.

      1. peeples profile image88
        peeplesposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        So I suppose if a father chooses to stone his child you will be ok with it even though he would be breaking the law, since after all the bible says disobedient children should be stoned?

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          You reverse the discussion, I refer to what the state rules upon being in conflict with what God decrees.

          SSM affects me not one iota, and I have absolutely no problem with people doing as they wish, that after all, is why we were given the right to choose between Gods will and our own.

          But God defined the institution called marriage, not any human court, so what the justices have done is by default an offence towards God, as they have taken the institution outside of 'between a man and a woman'.

          Do as you will (which is the enemies chant and ambition) your (collective) argument is not with me, but God, and as in all other issues, we all will stand alone when we face Him, and answer for our choices.

          My main concern is that these sort of rebellious acts stand as harbingers of destruction, and America just stepped way away from being under Gods protection and blessing, especially if the decision is actually approved by a majority of Americans.

          That (stepping away) may well be music to secular ears, but then again doomed empires have always fiddled whilst Rome burns.

          Enjoy the summer, for I feel September will bring less welcome changes.

      2. John Holden profile image62
        John Holdenposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        Except in the verse you quote!

      3. PrettyPanther profile image85
        PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        What other laws that run counter to the bible are you defying?  Divorce?  Working on Sunday?

      4. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        "Nowhere is scripture does marriage refer to other than a man and a woman."

        Really?  How many women (plural) did Solomon marry?  700 wasn't it?

        But in any case, I don't see anything in that decision requiring anyone, believer or not, to marry their own sex.  That you wish to force others to accept the rules YOU think god ordered is in direct violation of the words of Jesus.  Unless the "do unto you" part includes forcing you into a gay marriage?

    2. Au fait profile image94
      Au faitposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Denton County Texas, where I live, has made no such decision as you state.  Denton County will be issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples beginning tomorrow morning at 8 AM.  There are without question some people in Texas, and probably in every state, who do not like the new SCOTUS ruling, however they will comply with the law at some point.

      Dallas, our second largest city was issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples last week Friday, as were most county clerk's offices around the state of Texas.  Even if one county clerk in the state did refuse to issue licenses to same sex couples that would not equal the entire state challenging SCOTUS or U.S. law.  Juli Luke, Denton Country clerk did not say she would NEVER issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.  She said her office was not prepared to do so on such short notice and has since announced that licenses will be issued from her office beginning tomorrow.

      Agree that her office should have been prepared to begin issuing such licenses on Friday because she had to know a ruling was imminent and that compliance would be required in order to keep her job. 

      Being a Yankee living in Texas for more than 30 years, I've noticed that employers and others tolerate tardiness way more here in the South than it was ever tolerated up North, so perhaps Ms. Luke was hoping to challenge SCOTUS, or perhaps she was just indulging her office in what seems to be a common, almost traditional affliction (not being on time) here in Texas.

      Anyone working in government on any level who wants to keep their job will comply with the law.  Most county clerks are elected in this country and so they have spent money (often their own) campaigning for that office.  Not a lot of money compared to running for other offices, but I suppose that is relative to how much the person running has to spend in the first place compared to their resources.

      Once removed from office for refusing to comply with the law -- which all elected officials and many hired wage earning state employees must swear to uphold when accepting or taking an office, it is unlikely they would hold such an office again.

      With technology being what it is, making it possible to know what's going on pretty much anywhere in the civilized world, it is possible to check your facts before making a humongous issue over something that doesn't exist. 

      The fact is that no public official and no one with any authority or administrative responsibility in Denton County Texas is challenging U.S. law or SCOTUS.   Nor has any such person challenged SCOTUS from the beginning.

      If you merely wanted to discuss how people feel generally about the SCOTUS ruling on same sex marriage why not just say so?  Why invent lies?  Juli Luke has never said she would not issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.  She said her office was unprepared at that time.  She has since announced that licenses to same sex couples will be issued beginning tomorrow, which is the very next business day after denying 3 couples a license because her office was not prepared to process them.  I hardly call that a challenge to the SCOTUS ruling.  Poor planning, bad judgment, and many things, but not a challenge to United States law.

      Texas is no longer a country, but a state and that has been so for a long time.  Texas has benefitted from being a state of the United States in many ways and no thinking person will seriously consider succession.  With no U.S. military to protect it, Texas would become a terrorist haven.  Likely the U.S. would have to occupy Texas and enforce martial law.  Wouldn't that be more fun than a barrel of monkeys for the citizens of Texas because a few people who want to force their own religious beliefs down everyone's throat decided to cause trouble?

      Marriage is a areligious term.  Civil Union would be the best way for government to refer to partners in a permanent relationship.  How most people define marriage is based at least 99% on their religious views.  If you call yourself an atheist and still insist on a religious definition of marriage, perhaps you should rethink your beliefs on religion.  Maybe you aren't so different from other religious people who want to force their own religious definitions (beliefs) of various things onto other people.  Maybe you have more confidence and belief in God and a hereafter than you thought.  Ask yourself why you accept the religious definition of marriage if you don't believe in God?  Most laws originate from Biblical laws.

      As a Christian, I believe everyone will answer for themselves regarding every thought, every word out of their mouths or written, and every deed, good or bad.  I can't answer for you nor can you answer for me even if we wanted to.  In this regard, feminists who believe God is sexist are wrong.  What could be more equal or speak more loudly to equality than requiring women to stand alone before God and answer for themselves and their own thoughts, words, and actions?  No man, husband, or father of a daughter past the age of 7, will be expected or allowed to answer for any female human.

      It is never our calling as Christians to judge other people.  God alone is qualified to judge any and all humans.  Given that most humans can't manage their own affairs very well, I doubt very much that God would engage any one of us to assist Him in His responsibility to judge should He fall behind in His responsibility.  Oddly, it is those humans least qualified who seem to expect His call at any moment  requesting their assistance in judging.  While they wait they are busy keeping their judging skills up to par and imagine themselves so perfect they can render opinions even though no one, especially God, is interested in their judgment. 

      In fact, judging other people is a sin.  Yes, read your Bibles dear fellow Christians.  No one except God is qualified to judge another person, so however much a person may be chomping at the bit to become God's right hand assistant in this endeavor, God has in fact given them other work to do which they are often ignoring in their anticipation of being summoned to the Great Court in Heaven to assist in the judgment.

      So long as a person is not hurting another person, I say live and let live.  How is persecuting someone for any reason a Christian behavior?  True homosexuals are born.  They do not choose to be the way they are.  Do a few people choose that lifestyle just for the shock value?  No doubt a few do, but when did it become correct, reasonable, fair, or just to punish everyone for the sins of one or two people?

      Instead of taking issue with how other people live because it's different from your own lifestyle and choosing, why not be grateful, thrilled, and happy, that you are able to live your own life as you wish?  Why not rejoice in your ability to worship as you see fit?  Why not be so happy that you can choose where you will live, who you will marry or if you will marry, and what work you will do during your life?  People haven't always had those choices or even any influence on them.  Circumstances, traditions, parents, and other things have made those decisions for many people throughout history.  So if you have so much freedom, who are you to deny that same freedom to other people just because they are not perfect like yourself?

      Some of us are aware that perfect people exist in this world.  Yes, we know because those people are very noisy about their perfection, demanding that everyone do this or think that because they have decided in their perfection, that we should all conform to their ways. 

      Oh, it's God's ways you say, not your own?  Well, everyone has their own interpretation of what God's ways are and some people even have their own God.  That is allowed by law in this country.  You don't have to agree with them, or join their club, but neither are they required to agree with you or join your club. 

      In the end, for those people capable of thought, we are all so far short of perfection that we really don't have time to worry about someone else's perfection even if we could somehow force perfection onto others. 

      A wise person will spend their time and energy bringing glory to God by making sure they are themselves the best Christian they can be.  By making sure they are tending to the work God has given them -- and I promise you, persecuting other people and judging other people is not work God gives to anybody, not even your perfect self.

      While a few people with very loud mouths no doubt object to the recent SCOTUS rulings, they will have to learn to live with them or spend a lot of time being fruitlessly unhappy.  Let others live as they wish so long as they are not forcing their ideas onto others or harming others and thank God, or just be grateful, that you too, can live your life your way.  It's a two way street.

      1. colorfulone profile image88
        colorfuloneposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        I love this post, Au fait.

        1. Au fait profile image94
          Au faitposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          Thank you Colorfulone.  As much as I would love for everyone to be a Christian, they have a free will and the law behind them to be what they will.  I honestly think the sermon one lives has more influence and success than the sermon one preaches.  I think God wants people to come to Him out of love and truth and appreciation, not by force.

  2. ahorseback profile image52
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Truly , I hope their are some holdouts , counties , states , cities , who say's that changing the entire institution  of marriage is progress  anyway .   Ten to fifteen percent of a population  ? just gay people ?

    1. PrettyPanther profile image85
      PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      "A record-high 6 in 10 Americans support same-sex marriage and a similar share say individual states should not be allowed to define marriage as only between a man and a woman, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll. "

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ … story.html

      1. ahorseback profile image52
        ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        Polls are made , fabricated , adjusted , adorned according to the users and creators needs , if we can't accept that , we can't except anything !

        1. PrettyPanther profile image85
          PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          That is true, but when multiple polls consistently show the same results, one can be confident they are accurate.  You should open your mind to statistics more often.  I've noticed that you dismiss facts that run counter to your world view.  That is why you are so often caught off guard by reality.


          1. ahorseback profile image52
            ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

            Well some of us are caught off guard by reality and some of us create our own reality  I suppose.

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Ignoring the nonsense of "changing the entire institution  of marriage", well over half the population of the country supports the freedom that is restored to a relative handful.

      (If you don't like polls, take a hard look at history, where nearly every possible form of marriage has occurred and where polygamy is more common than any other form.

  3. Writer Fox profile image81
    Writer Foxposted 16 months ago

    The Republic of Texas was an independent sovereign country in North America that existed from March 2, 1836, to February 19, 1846, with its own elected president and secretary of state.  It was formed as a separate nation after gaining independence from Mexico in 1836. It was recognized as an independent republic by U.S. President Andrew Jackson on March 3, 1837. It was further recognized by several other nations.

    It was annexed by the United States on December 29, 1845. The President and Congress of the Republic of Texas – in order to avoid war and in return for $10,000,000 in Federal bonds – conceded to annexation.

    But, it kept the 'Lone Star' of the Republic of Texas in its flag and often continues to reject the Federal Government's intervention into its affairs. It has sued the U.S. government 18 times over issues of states rights vs. national rights.
    https://www.texastribune.org/library/ab … -challenge

    Texas doesn't like to accept any federal mandate until the people of Texas vote and agree to do so. This is just another incident in the continuing saga of Texas exerting its independence. Unlike the Confederate flag, Texas will never agree to the removal of its flag.  That would be cause for war.


  4. Au fait profile image94
    Au faitposted 16 months ago

    That's one thing I addressed.  The U.S. Government isn't, nor should it be, in the business of enforcing anyone's religious beliefs or interpretations.   I'm sure the Muslims in this country are convinced the U.S. is going to Hell in a handbag (do they believe in hell?), because the U.S. isn't enforcing their religious beliefs either.

    Worry about living your own life to glorify God's name and let others do the same in their own way.  You can't control what other people think, say, or do, only what YOU think, say, and do.

    Mainly, I as addressing the misinformation about Denton County challenging SCOTUS, but I really think people are forgetting that our government does not, cannot, and should not promote any particular religion, or its beliefs.  If it did, it might well make it illegal for you to do many of the things you believe are important regarding your Christianity.  It's a two way street like I said.  If you want your religious freedom you will have to concede to letting others have theirs, as well as their own interpretation as to what that means to them.

    1. ahorseback profile image52
      ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Yes , but within the laws of Our culture please !

      1. Au fait profile image94
        Au faitposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        I guess your remark is to what I wrote.  Our culture is very inclusive.  We have all races, religions, and ethnicities here just for starters.  This is truly a melding pot for people to come from everywhere for freedom to live their lives their way so long as it doesn't break any laws or harm any person.  We all get to enjoy that freedom, not just people of a particular religion or a particular belief. 

        It is for God to deal with people who offend Him.  It is for the rest of us to set a good example in our own personal lives and bring glory to His name by doing the work He has assigned to us.  Teaching love and mercy and forgiveness is far superior than hate because someone is different.  Makes as much sense to kill all squirrels that aren't gray.  Lots of them aren't gray and not one (that I know of) chose its color.  I think God is a better judge when all is said and done.  He says if you want mercy and forgiveness then you must practice it.  Everyone does their best work when they work on improving themselves instead of ignoring their own perfections to assist others in dealing with theirs.

        I am such an imperfect Christian that if I were to take time out to instruct and persecute people who were born in a way not of their choice, I would be even less perfect if that's possible.

        Culture is always changing.  The one guarantee in all life is change.  Giving to others what we want and need for ourselves would be a great change instead of everyone shouting and pointing their fingers at the sinners in our midst.  As though all the sinners are somebody else.  Live and let live and perhaps you will enjoy that freedom also.  Be merciful and forgiving and perhaps you will receive the same from our Lord Jesus Christ.  There's enough to go around . . .

    2. colorfulone profile image88
      colorfuloneposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      You are a woman of great understanding, Au fait.

      "Give honor to honor is due."

  5. ahorseback profile image52
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Au fait , yes of course . What I mean is  , for instance , sharia law is fine with me as long as they obey our law system . No dishonoring children ,  no spousal abuse  etc.  as long as everyone lives according to our laws .

    1. Au fait profile image94
      Au faitposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      There is no sharia law in this country.  There is plenty of spousal abuse and child abuse even without it, and has been from before anyone ever heard of sharia law.   Abuses need to stop, no question about it, but don't imagine it is related only to sharia law.