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What is this obsession Americans have with the rich ?

  1. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Is it just liberals here in forums or does everyone just love to hate a rich person , the wealthy , the famous , celebrities ,.........I mean most rich or famous people earned their way to where they are right ?  And yet , there is a lot of talk about  taking more from the wealthy , almost as if somehow  we all deserve what they have ?   Seems strange to me that there is definitely a  hatred of the rich . When in truth  , these wealthy probably contribute more to  others already simply by consumerism ,  travel , spending , hiring .   Don't you think we really need the wealthy , rather than bashing them ?

    1. 0
      Karilyn R Kingposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Yes. I agree. The wealthy do give more than the rest of us to charity because they have more to give.

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        There definitely seems to be an envy which is  good , but also a dislike ! They do contribute much to others , simply by  being wealthy  .

        1. 0
          Karilyn R Kingposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          True.

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 16 months ago in reply to this

            Ahorseback, what you have stated is so true.  There is an immense hatred of the rich.  There are even blogs by some liberals who decry the rich, indicating that they are somehow corrupt because if they were not corrupt, they would not be wealthy.  Wealthy people worked smart to get where they are.  They do not need to apologize to others regarding their wealth.  In many American eyes liberal and otherwise, wealth is seen as evil, even satanic.  This hatred of the affluent, successful, and wealthy has reached insane proportions.   This hatred is analogous to hatred of the A student in school because h/she studied while the other students partied and looked at television more than they applied themselves.

    2. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      "When in truth  , these wealthy probably contribute more to  others already simply by consumerism ,  travel , spending , hiring."

      What a load. The "truth". The wealthy don't even touch what the rest of the country spends in consumerism. The top 1% spends more than the rest of the 99%? Consumerism is what drives the marketplace in this country and that is what creates jobs. This is the biggest lie the country has ever been sold. Why are we in a slow economy while the stock market soars to levels never seen before? Because the jobs that are not sent overseas have flattened wages and credit is at a standstill. The housing market has never recovered. Why, because no one other than the rich can get credit. If that is the case and the rich can get credit why aren't they buying homes left and right? Because they don't need them and the middle class can't afford them.

      No my friend the rich don't drive the consumerism in this country. Personally I have nothing against the rich. Many are my customers and some are friends while I eek out a sub middle class existence.

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        You can't truly believe that proportionately , rich people do not spend more than  you or I  in  day to day living  . ?   They have no obligation to share there's with anyone else !

        1. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 15 months ago in reply to this

          Absolutely they can't even come close to spending what the rest of the country spends. How can 1% of the population spend more than the rest of the 99% of us? The economy is based on consumerism. That is what makes the rich, rich. The wealthiest of the population income decreases when we stop spending. According to some studies the wealthiest 1% hold 40% of the wealth in the US. The other 60% of us spend more than they can hold onto even if they spent it all every year.

    3. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      I don't perceive a hatred of the rich in America. I see many of being jealous of what they have and many dream of achieving the same financial wealth. I have a problem with the obsession America has with money. We have ample evidence that wealth has nothing to do with happiness, nothing to do with self esteem, nothing to do with being a 'better' person. It is simply money.

      If we want to support such endeavors as enriching people like the Kardashians whose only claim to anything is a more audacious desire to be in the public eye; they should be allowed to rack up the bucks without others wanting to redistribute their not hard earned gains. But, I think it is rather naive to look at those who have gained in the corporate world with the same blinders. I don't really relish bailing out companies who have enriched some with hundreds of millions as compensation for running a company so far into the ground that it needed a bailout. I don't appreciate seeing golden parachutes for CEO's who would have been fired for similar performance running a company not traded on the stock exchange. I am appalled by the idea of banks using toxic funds to line the pockets of some; while the rest of us are expected to foot the bill.

      I don't hate the wealthy. I would simply like to hold them to the same standards we are held to.

    4. GNelson profile image85
      GNelsonposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      I think that you need to look at the facts.  Hate has nothing to do with it.  The very wealthy can hide their money overseas and avoid paying taxes on it while most working people pay the taxes before they get a check.  That is not fair and it is true.  Just one of many examples that many people seem to ignore because it doesn't fit their fantasy.

    5. Don W profile image83
      Don Wposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Perhaps it's not so much a "hatred of the rich" but a concern about the extent of economic materialism. We are in a situation where a printed piece of paper with no intrinsic value, is the difference between someone eating or being hungry, someone having shelter or being homeless, someone living or someone dying. You don't even need the paper any more. $100 is created by a bank literally changing a 0 to a 100 in someone's account. So lives are fundamentally transformed (for good or for bad) by this virtual money. Personally I'm not entirely comfortable with that, but that doesn't mean I hate the rich. I think it just means I have a mind.

    6. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 15 months ago in reply to this

      It is a negative consciousness, mentality, mindset, philosophy, and psychology.  There are people who glorify, even deify being poor and impoverished.  Such people contend that being poor and impoverished is somewhat "richer" than being wealthy.  These people staunchly avow that wealthy people have askewed values and priorities.  They would rather struggle and live abysmally "as long as they have 'family'", " they will be so alright".  This thinking is totally inverse logic.  If one is struggling, poor, and in poverty, they are not happy.  No mentally healthy person is happy being poor and/or impoverished, living a paycheck from  homelessness.  Such thinking is illogical in its premises.  They down the wealthy, the pursuit of wealth, and the accumulation of wealth as somewhat evil, even materialistic.  However, the wealthy are always better off, if there is an economic swoop, it is not the wealthy who will be homeless and wanting but the poor and impoverished.  Ahorseback, as my late father indicated that some people are HARD to learn.  It is pointless and an exercise in futility to convince such people that wealth is good and that being poor and impoverished is a negative condition to live in.  There seem to be people who espouse being poor and impoverished.  I never heard of such a presentation of lack of logic and reason in my sixty years of existence. People with such a mindset, I AVOID like the plaque.

  2. Stacie L profile image89
    Stacie Lposted 16 months ago

    The majority of society may feel cheated somehow because the god of fortune has not smiled on them. But liberals as you state, as well as others, may despise those with disposable income due to the fact that money buys influence and power. If you don't have money in the American society, you don't have a voice. Many feel disenfranchised and unheard, especially by the elected officials who wooed our vote and then turned their backs on us when in government.
    The rich have always had a stronger voice and that does lead to envy and hatred by many.JMHO

    1. 0
      Karilyn R Kingposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      That's also true, what you said: "If you don't have money in American society, then you don't have a voice." It reminds me of something that my great grandfather once said, back when he was living and I was a child, "Money talks. Bull s**t walks."

      1. Stacie L profile image89
        Stacie Lposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        "Money talks. Bull s**t walks."
        My dad said the same thing...;-)

        1. 0
          Karilyn R Kingposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          It's a popular saying so I'm not surprised. The language is a bit colorful but it's true.

  3. 0
    sandrawelchposted 16 months ago

    Coming from less than humble beginnings, I am a member of a family, that was too poor to be 'Piss Poor'.  Meaning, we didn't have a pot to pee in, or a window to throw it out.  I have a public school education, but realized early, that it was a matter of grooming us to work for someone else.  I have always at least dabbled in self employment, just to make sure my children had not only what they needed, but most of what they wanted.  I have never hated anyone for their good fortune.  Some get by luck, some get it handed to them, some work hard for it.  I have watched a lot of people try to make it rich, and miss the important things in life.  We seem to fixated on the idea that enough is never enough.  We got to make that extra buck, we have to have what the family down the street has, and drive the newest cars.  Somewhere, there has to be a middle ground.  Some time we have to settle, accept our role in our own destiny.  When is enough, enough?  When there are no hungry bellies at bed time.  When every one has adequate clothing.  When everyone has the opportunity to attend school.  I found my enough level.  And I am happy.  No, I am not rich.  I don't have a lot to share.  But, I can take pride in having worked for everything I own.  By knowing there are more of us in the working class, than in the poor or the rich, I realize, enough is enough for me.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 16 months ago

    The rich are hated because they don't pay their "fair share" and "the trickle down theory didn't/doesn't work."
    Liberal type People HATE our past President, Ronald Reagan. They hate the rich and they hate Reagan because they don't understand where Reagan was coming from. They don't understand where Reagan was coming from because … ??????

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Because it didn't work.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        … could you please explain that? I always forget how.. ( and its always so entertaining to hear it again.)

  5. colorfulone profile image87
    colorfuloneposted 16 months ago

    Hate is a very strong word in my vocabulary, its a word I use sparingly. 

    I do not like being in my own skin when I feel hate toward others.

  6. 60
    C.J. Wrightposted 16 months ago

    It's a popular theme today.  Popular culture is obsessed with two things, fame and being a victim.  It's very liberating to convince yourself that your failures are caused by others. The fact that those supposedly responsible have lots of resources is just good business.  That way if the offenders ever feel guilty they have the means to provide tangible tokens of their contrition.

    ....tongue firmly planted in cheek;)

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 16 months ago

    <"I don't really relish bailing out companies who have enriched some with hundreds of millions as compensation for running a company so far into the ground that it needed a bailout. I don't appreciate seeing golden parachutes for CEO's who would have been fired for similar performance running a company not traded on the stock exchange. I am appalled by the idea of banks using toxic funds to line the pockets of some; while the rest of us are expected to foot the bill.">  Live to Learn
    THIS!
    <"The very wealthy can hide their money overseas and avoid paying taxes on it while most working people pay the taxes before they get a check."> GNelson
    AND THIS!

    1. GNelson profile image85
      GNelsonposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      You made some good points and there many others that some people tend to ignore.  Back in the 60's when working people made an decent wage America was better off.  Today many workers do not make a living wage and qualify for food stamps.  America is not doing well compared to other industrial countries.  Many of our children die because they don't have access to medical care.  Many of our children don't have enough to eat.  Many of our children don't get a good education.  As the middle class shrinks America falls down.  Just look at our infrastructure.  We would fight a useless war than take care of our children because war creates a profit for corporations and taking care of children does not.

  8. PrettyPanther profile image85
    PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago

    Us liberals get tired of the black-and-white viewpoint of some conservatives.  Criticism does not equal hate.  I do not hate the wealthy, I don't think they are evil, and I don't wish to take all their money and give it to lazy do-nothings. I do, however, believe they wealthy should pay more taxes, especially on unearned income.  I also believe they should not be able to buy politicians with their money.  Oh my, how hateful is that?  roll

    1. 60
      C.J. Wrightposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Different viewpoints I guess. You say:
      "I do, however, believe they wealthy should pay more taxes, especially on unearned income.  I also believe they should not be able to buy politicians with their money."

      Others would say.  The poor work for money. The rich make money work for them.  We should elect politicians that can't be bought. 

      The latter is something we all should be paying more attention to.  Its astonishing how many politicians increase their net worth by 10 fold during their careers.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image85
        PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        There is this little thing called reality.  Sure, one can say "only elect those who can't be bought," but if a wealthy person is legally allowed to fund super PACs and funnel massive sums of money to politicians, then they will always find a politician willing to be bought.




      2. rhamson profile image77
        rhamsonposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        "We should elect politicians that can't be bought."

        The system is far to broken to allow politicians who can't be bought. To be elected you need a lot of money. Whoever donates it to you wants something in return. The something is not fair government.

        The other problem is who works for them to get elected. One of Bush's campaign workers was Michael Brown and as a reward for his hard work he was appointed head of FEMA during the Katrina disaster. Unfortunately he was not able to execute the office very well as his background in executive management was running horse shows. The cronyism of the elective process is broken as well.

  9. 0
    sandrawelchposted 16 months ago

    When was the last time any of us, spent more to get a job, than the job would pay?  Does this make sense? No, of course not.  But that is exactly what politicians do.  They spend millions of dollars on ads, tv, the media, and special interests.  Even the highest office in the land, pays less than $ 1,000,000 for four year term.  It is a matter of pushing their own agenda.  Be it religion, war, social issues, climbing the ladder, special interests, insurance, health care, education...what ever is going to line their pockets in the future.  I have always been suspicious of anyone spending more money to get in,then they will make in that office.

  10. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Perhaps Americans are simply not good at  separating the  popular negative  image of wealthy  from the actual spending habits of , and the earning accomplishments of the wealthy .     It's obvious  to those who are real that the rich do spend more , or are in  the position to  create a  larger spending environment  in this economy  by the employment or other supportive habits of the richer part of the  population .   
    Think about it , if you had a few million  what would you do with it ?
    Hide it in your mattress ? Doubt it .
    Vacation ?
    Buy a second third or forth home ?
    Create college funds for your great , great grand kids ?
    Either way ,  you would spend  or be directly responsible for the spending of more -BY Others , and how is that  not helping our economy ?   Do they pay more or less taxes than you ,  probably more  ,  If one has  twenty eight employees or  four thousand employees , one is paying more taxes , believe me .  For example ,  Each of you that are employed  by a company pay a  certain amount to social security  funds -  the employer pays the other half !   I know that because I am self employed  and have to pay  both halves !   So double the amount that shows on your pay stub - that's what the employer pays.. Yet we all love to  despise the guy driving through town in a  Mercedes wearing  nice clothes .

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Sigh …  I wish I was wealthy.

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

        ++++ you'd be great at spreading wealth !

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 16 months ago in reply to this

          why, Yes!~  big_smile  I believe I would. Thank You, ahorseback!
          I would start my school called New Direction Education!
          The direction is inward where interest is.  Reading, Writing and Research would be the focus. I would create the environment to … well, all that ...

      2. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        Most thinking, aware people do..............However, there are those who seemingly have an inverse consciousness, mentality, mindset, philosophy, and psychology who glorify being poor, even poverty.  How STRANGE is THAT?!

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 15 months ago in reply to this

          Looking at that comment of mine made back then, I see how utterly pathetic it sounds.
          There is wish, hope and will, One can say "I wish I was wealthy," One can say "I hope to be wealthy someday."  Or one can say, I WILL be wealthy. Which attitude will get you there?
          If you have the will, you will figure out which steps to take, as Susie Orman, for one, did. Now, not everyone who tries to become wealthy is going to become wealthy, but to at least take steps toward this goal on some level will bring you more wealth than if you just sat around sighing about it.
          I am not sighing any more.
          I am taking steps. I am taking up painting again.
          I will find a gallery. I will market my Art.

    2. 0
      sandrawelchposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      I worked as a waitress, a job with long hours, that required patience, honesty, and the willingness to be 100% committed to my job.  There were rules, a lot of rules.  But, when I started there at 16 with siblings to keep a roof over their heads, even at $ 1.87 an hour,  I did well.  The business grew from 1 store to 13 in 15 years.  All with in 20 minutes of each other.   I never had a pretense, and had no plans of climbing the ladder there.  I did however, bring home 25,000 my lowest year, and 51,000 my best year.  How many waitresses make $ 51,000 a year?  Not many.   But the fact that we were allowed to work over time, had percentage sharing after 5 years, Christmas accounts, saving accounts were required, and stock options pushed that slave wage to higher than some professionals I knew.  It wasn't unusual to be given the chance to pick up extra hours, around any holiday.  The boss and his family always enjoyed the holidays off.  I put myself through college, helped my siblings work their way through too!  I financed two homes and two new cars on my way.  My boss knew my name. And later knew my children at sight.  Employed my siblings, and would hire someone on the spot if they used me for a reference.  My career would take me out of the food industry.  But I am always grateful for the start of my working years, for being taught work ethics.  Just their knowing that at 16 I had siblings dependent on me, was enough for them to send home leftovers to feed the brood.  Many suppers weren't served until after I arrived home, often past 10 at night.  I am grateful, they meant the world to my being able to grow up, work, attend college and own a home.  They not only wanted to do well for themselves, but wanted their employees to do well too.  Today's world sure is different.  I don't know it was Dan Quayle's speech that turned waitresses and tipped employees into 'Welfare Queens' that created the idea that every person who works a tipped job is on the take, or maybe they are padding their pockets.  But things sure have changed, and not for the better.

  11. colorfulone profile image87
    colorfuloneposted 16 months ago

    It could be totally rewarding and fun being wealthy by putting smiles on many faces.

    I would enjoy it.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      +++++

  12. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    I agree , and I believe that as more and more Americans do become  wealthy ....so do we all !
    I know I would simply spend more  , consume and  travel more  . there-by supporting the growing economy much  as supported by the  all wealthy  .   I do a lot of work for a wealthy , self -made man , the greatest  part of  his wealth - IS that he spends  more and more  as he makes it .   

    He also employs about three hundred directly , countless more in-directly  and continues to do so .  Traveling America and the world  as well ,   all kidding aside  I'm sure he has spent  hundreds of thousands  simply traveling America .  That contributes !

    1. colorfulone profile image87
      colorfuloneposted 16 months ago in reply to this

      Yes, that does contribute to spreading wealth by traveling in America.  There are plenty of wealthy people who don't get all they can and can all they get.

    2. Credence2 profile image84
      Credence2posted 16 months ago in reply to this

      I would not want to compare the unprecedented transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy, the outright theft by Wall Street and the finance markets nor the corporate subsidies provided by tax payer dollars and say that they are all compensated for by plutocrats that take road trips?

  13. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Some things to ponder, ;

    #1  Not any where near most of  the  wealthy get rich from  transferring from the poor or middle class .

    #2  Nor did that steal it from wall street or your retirement funds

    #3  They do spend  proportionately more than you or I into our economy

    #4  How in the world can anyone justify re-distributing  the wealth's money ,  for others , no matter how they attained  said wealth , unless illegally .

    5#  It is probably the wealthy that  will  maneuver an upturn in our economy  in the end .

  14. peeples profile image89
    peeplesposted 15 months ago

    http://fortune.com/2015/01/19/the-1-wil … port-says/

    I have no issue with rich people. I have no issue with people who have in one way or another worked their a$$es off to gain wealth, nor their children who do little to nothing to get it.
    What I do have an issue with is the idea that "spreading wealth" or as you said it "re-distributing  the wealth" is all that bad. Do I think the government should do it? No, but what do we do when without money you can not have a voice, without money you can not control your government, without money you have no say in the food that shows up in the grocery store, you really have no way to contribute outside of your own community, and even then it's minimal. My question is, if 1% has more than 99% combined, why are they not willingly making a REAL difference in this world. And I don't mean their $hitty tax right off non profit organizations trying to get money from the poor to help the poor. I mean why aren't they willingly going in and changing cities?
    If I were the 1% and had more than I could ever functionally use (which they all have) I couldn't imagine keeping the majority of it. They have enough to pass down to multiple generations and still change the world, but instead many put that money towards buying the government! Why don't they just fix the freaking world!?
    I guess people have an issue with the rich because we don't understand how that much wealth is in 1% when the majority of the other 99% works their butts off to never be able to make a difference. And for the record, lucking up and working to get an acting gig that turns out to make you millions isn't exactly the kind of "work" the other 99% are doing. It's frustration, simple frustration without being able to grasp the things we don't understand and we won't ever understand it because we won't ever be part of it.

  15. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 15 months ago

    Peeples  , I believe that you might find  that  the 1 %  of those who have the most , in one way or another  , give the most !.   Philanthropy is  a huge and  un spoken  part of  all such wealth .    I truly don't  know the numbers statistics ] , but I do know that America is  known , worldwide ,  for giving !   It's simply not a popularly known facet  of acceptance in  our understanding of America's wealthy.  Maybe I'm wrong  about this but I don't think so .  Now   Is there enough wealth to go into our  inner cities and "give away" enough ?

    No !I believe there is a crucial part of our culture that could never receive enough  to change all that they know or could ever know about raising themselves up from poverty .  Give most people  instant wealth  and most  probably  would  falter with the  cultural changes.

    1. peeples profile image89
      peeplesposted 15 months ago in reply to this

      I certainly don't think they should go around passing out their money to people for nothing. There are so many other things they can do. I just don't understand how we have so many people worth billions, yet we still have starving kids, homeless families, children sitting in foster care getting no gifts at Christmas, or people being paid $7.25 an hour to sweat their butts off doing hard manual labor all day. I know fixing everything isn't possible, but with the amount of wealth in such a few people, even with what they do, it simply isn't enough in my opinion. I've done the math. I know how much it costs to provide every foster child $100 in Christmas presents, and my friend, I promise you, if they wanted to they could and it would barely put a dent in their wealth. They could pay it with just a small portion of their yearly bonuses. I don't expect them to fix lazy people who refuse to work for a living, I just expect them to have more empathy than most of them do.

      1. Alternative Prime profile image85
        Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        Amen peeples ~ I can't argue with that ~

        I'll give you one example why individuals like Bernie Sanders, Democratic Presidential Candidate who is a proud Socialist, is using his time to educate Americans on the Income & Wealth Injustice which has been ocurring for decades ~

        Right now as we speak, there are "Hedge Fund Managers on Wall Street who are raking in BILLIONs without paying a dime in taxes, or paying a miniscule amount ~ It's unethical, Immoral, and in some cases Criminal and it must end ~

        Even Donald Trump recognizes this abuse and said he'd address this critically important issue ~

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 15 months ago in reply to this

          "Hedge Fund Managers on Wall Street who are raking in BILLIONs without paying a dime in taxes, or paying a miniscule amount ~ It's unethical, Immoral, and in some cases Criminal and it must end"

          Can you name names and provide proof or is this just another wild liberal attack without basis in reality?

          1. Alternative Prime profile image85
            Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

            Eveyone understands the fact that Hedge Funds pay very little or ZERO Taxes ~

            Educate yourself wilderness, I'm a teacher but I really don't have the discretionary time to give you lessons every 5 minutes ~

            You should insert as much fervor, venom and allegiance in a defense for our Working Class, Senior Citizens, Minorities, and Income Challenged as you do for  sleazy Billionaires and Wall Street Swindlers ~ Then your cause would be Admirable  ~

            1. GA Anderson profile image85
              GA Andersonposted 15 months ago in reply to this

              "...Income Challenged..."

              Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.


              http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12613031.jpg

              Yes, I know this is a shallow response, but sometimes temptation gets the better of me. And it does seem to fit in with your flow of comments. Com'on, `income challenged'? I bet you even have a PC badge.

              GA

            2. Quilligrapher profile image90
              Quilligrapherposted 15 months ago in reply to this

              Wilderness asked a valid question: “Can you name names and provide proof or is this just another wild liberal attack without basis in reality?"

              To which you replied. "Eveyone [sic] understands the fact that Hedge Funds pay very little or ZERO Taxes ~

              Educate yourself wilderness, I'm a teacher but I really don't have the discretionary time to give you lessons every 5 minutes ~

              You should insert as much fervor, venom and allegiance in a defense for our Working Class, Senior Citizens, Minorities, and Income Challenged as you do for sleazy Billionaires and Wall Street Swindlers ~ Then your cause would be Admirable"


              Hi Alternate,

              If you do not think your claims and opinions are important enough to merit citations or some other supporting authority, then why should anyone reading them take you seriously? Why would anyone research your assertions because you are unable or unwilling to back up your own claims with verifiable facts? On the other hand, using the excuse that the effort is too much to bear, is the same as saying you just do not have any facts.

              Every good teacher knows the originator of a positive assertion carries the burden of proving the claim is valid. {1}

              http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
              {1} http://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ … -Proof.htm
              {See “Shifting the Burden of Proof.")

            3. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 15 months ago in reply to this

              From which I conclude that you do NOT have any facts or figures - that you are once more making wild claims you cannot support with factual data.  As Quill points out, why should anyone believe anything you say when you refuse to provide support for it?

      2. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        Those who have free will are rich with free will.  In this respect, we are all rich, equally rich ... unless free will is DIMINISHED in some by others who demand, whine, connive, scam, steal, rob, and expect
                        their ASSISTANCE!

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 15 months ago in reply to this

          Kathryn, it is very ironic that those who love being poor and impoverished, complain about their condition.  They profess that although they "love" being poor and struggling from day to day to day ad infinitum, they want that good life.  When one logically present the fact that in order to achieve a better lifestyle, one has to make wise, informed lifestyle choices.  Well, they are aghast at such a suggestion. 

          They do not want to make the sacrifices required to achieve a more socioeconomic affluent lifestyle.  They do not want to go to school at night to further themselves or obtain that promotion.  Oh no, that's TOO HARD.  They would rather party, watch television, and yet complain about their "struggle".  Better yet, they ask the more affluent relatives to support them in the way they believe they should be supported.  I have seen this with my own extended large families-aunts, uncles, and ......cousins.  They don't want but WANT through affluent relatives.  Yes, there is another side to the poor and impoverished-they want better but NEVER through their OWN EFFORTS.  Spot on analysis, Kathryn as usual! Good night!

          In order to live a socioeconomically good life, one has to make intelligent choices. One cannot make negative, stupid, and thoughtless choices and expect to be socioeconomically solvent and affluent.  One has to make smart educational and economic choices not only for themselves but for their future descendants.  One cannot approach life helter skelter and expect to be socioeconomically successful!

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 15 months ago in reply to this

            Yes, gmwilliams. smile Good night 2 U 2!

          2. ahorseback profile image46
            ahorsebackposted 15 months ago in reply to this

            +++++

          3. Alternative Prime profile image85
            Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

            gmwilliams ~ Always Remember

            Most Billionaires and even Millionaires other than great inventors, acquire this grotesquely massive wealth by Shady or Illegal Means, Inheritance or Shear Luck, not by "Wise Choices" or "Hard Work" or any other ridiculous scenario ~

            Mutt Romney & Jeb Bush both inherited small fortunes, just to name a few ~

            So don't think Billionaires are Smarter, Wiser, or even Work Harder to Amass  & Stockpile our Wealth because their not ~

            P.S. ~ Nobody that I know of has an "Obsession" with the Wealthy or Rich, however, an Extremely Bright Light must be shined on these individuals at all times ~ An inducement to extracting a Fair Tax from  Hedge Funds etc ~

            1. rhamson profile image77
              rhamsonposted 15 months ago in reply to this

              "Most Billionaires and even Millionaires other than great inventors, acquire this grotesquely massive wealth by Shady or Illegal Means, Inheritance or Shear Luck, not by "Wise Choices" or "Hard Work" or any other ridiculous scenario ~"

              Do you have a link or study or any proof that "MOST" billionaires and millionaires acquire their wealth this way?

              1. Alternative Prime profile image85
                Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                No rhamson, I'll just believe you and take your word that all billionaires  & miliionaires simply work "REALLY REALLY HARD" to make their fortunes smile ~

                Actually, I have more experience in this subject than any "Link" you could possibly post here ~ Furthermore, just because you post a link dosen't mean it's accurate ~

                I gave you two and here's three perfect examples of High Profile millionaires and billionares who are not self made ~ Mutt Romney inherited and started with at least a million in equities, Jed Bush inherited and started with a dirty oil fortune, and even Donald Trump inherited and started with significant real estate holdings ~

                Many "Admirable Fortunes" were made in this modernization era of technology ~ Two of the most notable would be Bill Gates & Steve Jobs who invented essential components to information delivery therefore, legitimatelly earned their wealth ~ Although BILLIONs just sitting in dungeons even though legitimate could be considered immoral ~

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                  Well said, although it would mean quite a bit more were there some hard proof of these inheritances.

                  But what about the "shady" or "illegal" means?  Can you provide nothing there?  Were they just spin to distract the reader or do you have proof of such criminal activities?

                2. Quilligrapher profile image90
                  Quilligrapherposted 15 months ago in reply to this



                  An example of an Appeal to Authority Fallacy:
                  1. Person A claims to be an authority a subject S.
                  2. Person A makes claim C about subject S.
                  3. Therefore, C is true.

                  Also Known as Fallacious Appeal to Authority, Misuse of Authority, Irrelevant Authority, Questionable Authority, Inappropriate Authority, Ad Verecundiam {1}

                  But, Alternative, have you any facts???????????
                  http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg
                  {1} http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie … ority.html

                3. rhamson profile image77
                  rhamsonposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                  Your answer is typical of one that makes all or nothing references to their assertion. Your offer of three examples based on how many makes it even plausible? Am I to accept your assurances of vastly more experience based on your three examples?

                  Your straw man tactics are well noted and do invalidate your answer to my inquiry.

                  Once again do you have any proof that millionaires and billionaires do not work hard to attain their wealth? A study, thesis or maybe an article could help. Yet you provide nothing but your authority and experience to justify your claim? May I ask what are your references based on your answer?

                  1. Alternative Prime profile image85
                    Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                    Trust me rhamson, you nor anyone else will ever become a billionaire or even a millionaire by working REALLY REALLY HARD at mowing lawns, or as a construction worker building houses, or cleaning hotel rooms as many un-documented immigrants do, or data entry, or fighting fires, or nursing at the local hospital ~

                    Although these are just some of the occupations or “Jobs” which truly define the “American Spirit“, as admirable as they may be, “Slaving” at any of the above activities for a lifetime might guarantee you possible “Survival” here on Planet Earth, albeit with a Severe Chronic Arthritic Medical Condition to Manage, but will never ever result in vast fortunes or great riches, and that’s a fact ~

                    Do you honestly think Bill Gates WORKED REALLY REALLY HARD to attain a massive idle fortune of approximately 50 BILLION in ASSETS? Or Steve Jobs? Or numbskull Jeb Bush? Or Mutt Romney? ~

                    How about Bill O'Reilly who sits around making a horses rear out of himself nightly? Yeah, I mean it's really really hard work smile ~

                4. peeples profile image89
                  peeplesposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                  http://www.cnbc.com/2014/10/03/two-thir … elves.html

                  Interesting article Alternative. States "A 2012 analysis by the left-leaning United for a Fair Economy said that 40 percent of today's American billionaires inherited a "sizeable asset from a spouse or family member."" It also brakes down the 1-10 scale showing that some are considered self made even though they came from upper class families. It also mentions how out of the top 400 Forbes Billionaires, 34 came from poor families and only 64 from working class families . I'd say it kind of points out how the majority of people who become the 1% get a head start through there family, while only a small amount coming from the poor or working class have the chance to excel to that degree.
                  I just thought it was an interesting read though I am sure some will manage to interpret the numbers differently.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                    Yes, some will interpret the numbers differently.  You're looking at 400 of the 3,188,600 people that make up the 1% (.01% of the group), all taken from the very tip of the wealth curve, and drawing conclusions about the whole group.  It doesn't work very well.  You also rush past the fact that well over half of that esoteric group did NOT begin with a "sizeable asset from a spouse or family member". 

                    The insinuation that it is nearly impossible to join the 1% without a huge inheritance and/or being from an upper class family is not supported by the figures.  Especially as a quarter of that very specific tip of the curve did just that!

                  2. rhamson profile image77
                    rhamsonposted 15 months ago in reply to this

                    I don't know if you read all of it but I found this statement rather interesting compared to the conclusions. "The Forbes 400 were self-made; today, 69 percent of the 400 created their own fortunes."
                    If we are to believe the statistics 69% being self made are more than those who inherited their wealth.

                    I don't know if the question should be how these people got their money but perhaps how the lower income groups can move up. Is it the contention that those at the top repress or make it harder for the lower income earners move up? Can it be earned through hard work that has always been the story for those wishing to improve themselves? Is the increase in the population making it harder than in the past? I don't know and these things need greater study if they are to be proven.

            2. Quilligrapher profile image90
              Quilligrapherposted 15 months ago in reply to this

              Hi Alternative,

              Please provide data that proves this statement is fact and not just your personal opinion.

              Thanks. 
              http://s2.hubimg.com/u/6919429.jpg

        2. Alternative Prime profile image85
          Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

          Oh Really Kathryn??

          Go see how many sandiches FREE WILL can buy at the local Deli ~

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 15 months ago in reply to this

            Free Will does not steal. Free Will goes to Subway and asks if they need help. If the staff says no, Free Will goes across the street to see if the shoe repair shop needs help. Of course, they say to apply on-line. So Free Will goes to the library to do so, (since his friends won't let him use their computers for such nonsense.) Lo and Behold, Free Will finds many companies/jobs to apply for! Free Will decides to stock at the Ralph's down the street, (since Free Will doesn't have a car yet.) Free Will decides to work at night, (since he is not in the habit of waking up early … and after all, has a real life during the day: computer gaming at various friend's houses! yikes)
            Ralph's needs stockers badly, so they hire him even though he has tattoos, ear piercings and an orange mohawk. At first Free Will loves stocking shelves. Its easy and he is good at it! No one puts him down for his appearance because he is just so fast and helpful. In fact, they call him Orange Lightening.
            Eventually, Orange Lightening gets tired of the color orange and grows out his hair and decides he would like people call him by his real name, Will.
            Now his hair is brown again and a nice length. He sees that he is a handsome bloke after all and decides to take out the earrings too. But, he is notices he is looking a little pale and haggard from no sun and too little sleep.
            So, Will applies to work in the Deli department at Ralph's. Now why didn't he think of that in the first place?!  He in heaven making deli sandwiches for Ralph's customers. Being entitled to one deli sandwich a day, he begins eating lunches with Raven, the Deli Clerk. They discovered they have something in common: They both love deli sandwiches!
            FF Today they make them for their two kids.

            And thats a lot of deli sandwiches that Orange Lightening, uh, I mean ... Free Will bought! big_smile

      3. rhamson profile image77
        rhamsonposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        If you really want to see some ignorance of blight look at the Vatican. Recently there has been a change but it nowhere near makes up for the absolute affluence that these people live in while children who suffer starvation who don't even have enough strength to wipe the flies from their eyes.. There is all kinds of unequal giving in the world but greed is a disease and is only cured with dealing with poverty, whether giving to help quell it or experiencing it first hand for yourself.

      4. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        I'd be interested in seeing how much you think it would cost to give $100 worth of Christmas gifts to all the 400,000 foster children.  Did you include the costs of delivering some 1.6 million gifts (4 per child)?  UPS has operating costs of about $233 million to deliver 1 million packages. The labor costs of purchasing and wrapping them (at 2 minutes to wrap one gift it will take 25 man years of 40 hour weeks and purchasing 4 personalized gifts for each child will be considerably more)?  The costs of managing the program (70% of all charities give less than $.25 of each dollar to recipients)?

        The total is going to be well into the billions of dollars - seemingly far beyond any "bonuses" the wealthy might receive.

  16. 60
    Ketannaposted 15 months ago

    Well not all people "hate" wealthy people, and not all rich people earned their riches, they were somewhat born in it or given it. It's Not really a matter of people hating them or taking from them, its just simply an imbalance going on because some of the wealthy are handed a silver platter without earning it. And the wealthy is not as needed as you make it seem, even middle class earning people travel, spend & hire, so either way it goes money will always travel into different hands weather wealthy, middle class, or poor.

  17. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 15 months ago

    The hyper-envious of the wealthy just simply cannot make ANY sense of  defending themselves in this debate ,    For those of you who simple despise the wealthy , get up , get going and earn your own , inherit  your own  or learn how to live envious !  What Thiers's is Thiers's , what's your's is all you get !

    1. Alternative Prime profile image85
      Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

      YEAH, and if there are any young adults reading this, if you're interested in a HIGHER EDUCATION at a reputable college or university, do what Mutt Romney, Jed Bush, and ALL other conservatives recommend you should do ~ JUST SHUT UP & GO BORROW THE MONEY FROM YOUR PARENTS IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN A HIGHFALUTIN, FANCY, SNOBBISH EDUCATION ~

  18. peeples profile image89
    peeplesposted 15 months ago

    "Allen Stanford - Former billionaire financier was convicted of running an estimated $7 billion Ponzi scheme and sentenced in June to 110 years in prison. He’s been in jail since 2009."

    "Raj Rajaratnam - Former hedge fund billionaire, Rajaratnam, who once ran the Galleon Group, was found guilty of 14 counts of fraud in what’s been called the biggest insider trading ring of all time."

    Mikhail Khodorkovsky and Platon Lebedev  - convicted on fraud charges, tax evasion, and embezzling more than 200 million tons of oil and laundering the proceeds.

    Mahafarid Amir Khosravi, Jimoh Ibrahim, Robert and Vincent Tchenguiz, Jordan Belfort, Kim Dotcom, Sean Quinn, Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson, Ephren Taylor, and Bernie Madoff.

    That is just couple of the billionaires/millionaires who have been arrested because of their fraudulent ways of getting money, using money, or losing money.

    It happens, a LOT!! This isn't some rare thing, and anyone who thinks it is, well they are choosing to ignore the facts. I don't think anyone thinks all rich people get rich by doing something wrong, but no one can say it doesn't happen enough for us to be suspect. On top of that, the number of countries we have pushed ourselves into to gain power and financial control over. How can so many not be a little annoyed by these people? So much power and look how they choose to use it.  They certainly don't live by "what's your's is all you get !" when it comes to their money.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 15 months ago in reply to this

      Peeples ., who isn't annoyed by rich people who take from others , Yet what about poor people with the same mentality ?   Does it mean that the only the rich should be punished ?  Are you suggesting re-distributed wealth ? What's the difference between a rich crook and a poor crook ?

      1. peeples profile image89
        peeplesposted 15 months ago in reply to this

        I certainly think ALL criminals should be held accountable, however poor people are not responsible for causing the bank crisis, the majority control over government, the number of bombs we have dropped in the name of lobbyists. To compare the crime of the rich to the crime of the poor is like comparing the crime of murder to dealing marijuana. Can we really keep blaming people who have no control over the system/government for all the worlds problems while screaming "you should have worked harder" or are we at some point going to admit that not all people are given an equal chance in this country to succeed and the few who are given a head start refuse to help fix those inequalities?
        Call it what you like, I think that any time a billionaire finds themselves in a position of being arrested for gaining their money in fraudulent ways we should take the money they started with/inherited/worked hard for and hand it over to our schools, universities, and so on. I think we should exchange taxes for doing charitable works and giving. Since these people only look out for themselves, I think we should all get creative and find ways for the rich to be motivated into donating their money without it having to be taken.
        I have an opinion on the poor, but this thread was about the rich so I will spare you another article length forum post, but to answer your question, "What's the difference between a rich crook and a poor crook ?" One can only control themselves while the other can influence the masses. Equally as wrong, but different impacts.

    2. Alternative Prime profile image85
      Alternative Primeposted 15 months ago in reply to this

      peeples ~

      THX for illustrating the common sense fact that there are more than a few "SWINDLERS"  & "Fraudsters" who lurk in the shaddows and even within the bright lights of Wall Street & of course Main Street ~ They LURK & Steal all day long and into the night ~ Constantly scheming their next big SCORE, until they get caught, but of course then it's way too late when millions in our taxpayer funds must be drawn upon to finance prosecution of these corrupt individuals ~

      I'm really not trying to be antagonistic to anyone here, but there always seems to be a group of "Sight Challenged" republicans or conservative leaning individuals who apparently are either in denial that their  "Billionaire Saviors"  are not the sweet little patriotic angels they think they are ~ ASTONISHINGly Naive ~

      Or, it's quite possible they might be "Information Deficient" due to  non-access or ownership of modern technology ~ Or perhaps they live in a very remote location like Montana or Idaho or wherever and it might be impossible for them to  piece together a reliable connection to reach the outside world ~

      In any event, when you are asked, or should I say "Proded" by conservatives to prove something as painfully obvious as the existence of "Swindlers on Wall Street", it just re-affirms my assertion and belief that the obstructionist republican party is really extinct, gone as it should be ~

  19. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 15 months ago

    Perhaps we need to think about this , Most crime in America , is probably perpetrated by the poor !. Just a prediction  of mine .  But when you consider  the percentages of poor to rich , common sense  "should " take ahold.     Who seriously benefits  more from the legal system ,  my guess  the poor !........Now I'm not saying that the rich go unpunished . But please people , keep a check on reality ..........Prove me wrong !

 
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