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NRA is destroying America! Hillary Clinton vows death to Republicans!

  1. promisem profile image94
    promisemposted 17 months ago

    I wish I lived in a country where people would debate issues with clear, informed and objective minds, without bias, anger and hatred.

    I wish I lived in a country where multi-billionaires didn't control who gets elected to Congress and everything that Congress does and doesn't do.

    I wish I lived in a country where people didn't post extremist views and pass around wildly inaccurate "information" about politics and national issues.

    How about you?

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

      Human condition is in such a state, you might as well ask a bear to use the toilet.

      In this day and age, peace between right and left will always be elusive . The current issues and by extension the very principles of Government and its supposed purpose is up for debate. Never have we been so polarized......

      What you wish for is a nirvana, a Mayberry that never really existed anywhere outside of fiction.

      So, no peace in our time, wreak havoc and let loose the dogs of war....

      Sorry, to start the new year on so dismal a note.

      1. Live to Learn profile image80
        Live to Learnposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        How can there be peace when we now know Hillary Clinton wants to exterminate Republicans. I'm still reeling from the revelation. I wonder if that includes right leaning independents. I'm still too young to die. smile

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          Much of my post was facetious. We are all being 'worked up' to a certain extent. We have to apply the sieve of common sense to sort out the sensational from the truth, which is always somewhere in the middle.

          It is just that opposing issues resonates deeply among the alternate sides, and compromise is becoming all the more difficult to accomplish.

          Yes, we are all too young to die! I am a just left of center Democrat, and I am nervous as well.

        2. promisem profile image94
          promisemposted 17 months ago in reply to this

          LOL. Great response!

          As a right-leaning independent, I share your concern...

      2. promisem profile image94
        promisemposted 17 months ago in reply to this

        I agree. My overall concern is that the far right and the far left are dominating the debates by shouting down more reasonable people.

        We may never reach the country I describe, but we might be able to move the needle a bit in that direction.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

          I am looking to hear more from the 'reasonable people' Is there a middle ground, lets see if we can discover one that would appeal to everyone? Which side is being intractable, resisting any idea of compromise? Can a 'moderate' proposal or compromise stand in the public square without being savaged because one side or the other does not get 100 percent of its wish? Once the reasonable alternative bandwagon starts rolling, I would be more than happy to jump aboard.

          Take a position, if you would,  and see how it plays among the hubpages forum audience?

          1. promisem profile image94
            promisemposted 17 months ago in reply to this

            I know better than to expect everyone to agree on something. We live in a democracy (in theory), and therefore the majority rules.

            But I also don't want to drift away from my original point. Extremism and propaganda dominate American politics.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

              We are more contentious today than ever before. I challenge you to provide a 'reasonable' solution to a contentious issue, as a conservative leaning independent, and see if we can find a common ground. If so, we can multiply that by a million fold and perhaps make progress....

              1. promisem profile image94
                promisemposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                I am more moderate than conservative. Regardless, let's try abortion.

                My view is that abortion can be legal in the first trimester, legal under only some circumstances in the second trimester (rape, incest, etc.) and illegal in the third. That's a moderate position based on the following reasons.

                Having witnessed the birth of three children, it is completely incomprehensible to think that an abortion in the third trimester, especially late in the eighth or ninth month, is OK. The fact that healthy babies are born prematurely in the third semester supports the point.

                On the other hand, there is no logical evidence to support the idea that a fetus is a viable human being in the first trimester. It cannot survive outside the womb.

                The shrieking extremists on either side of the debate insist there is no middle ground. They have no tolerance for people like me. The conservatives call me a liberal and the liberals call me a conservative.

                I have met many people who share a more reasonable view on abortion, but they don't know how to articulate it because they are drowned out by extremist propaganda.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  "On the other hand, there is no logical evidence to support the idea that a fetus is a viable human being in the first trimester. It cannot survive outside the womb."

                  But right here lies the problem, for "human being" is a defined term, and your definition of being viable is the wrong one.  Wrong because we know it to be human by some other test (often unspecified) just as valid as yours. 

                  And with that being the case, there is zero possibility of the two sides coming together - the best that could be hoped for is a compromise that while satisfying no one is at least palatable to both.  Unfortunately, the topic is murder of infants, and there isn't much that can be palatable except to prevent any such thing.  And so the two sides will never either agree or compromise - neither is smart enough to understand that they don't know everything or have the final answer.

                  1. promisem profile image94
                    promisemposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    And yet the majority of laws and majority of the population support my definition, which is why abortion is legal in the first trimester and beyond. Otherwise, it would be illegal, wouldn't it?

                    The two "sides" will never come together because they are obsessed with their own ideologies.

                    In the meantime, the rest of us will keep trying to help our country. Some of us would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem.

                2. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 17 months ago in reply to this

                  Ok, Promisem

                  Does you view conform primarily with the provisions set under Roe vs Wade?
                  It appears that they do.

                  We agree that the issue of viability outside the womb is a strong determining factor surrounding the topic of abortion.

                  The Left and Planned Parenthood has put forth little challenge to this idea and the compromised worked out under Roe Vs Wade.

                  But, you let the Right weigh in, and it will tell you that conception is the point where Abortion is to be prohibited.

                  You let the Right weigh in and it closes all abortion clinics without regard for the law as established by the courts.

                  You have the middle ground and the progressives are there and the conservatives are not.

                  I am a progressive/liberal and we compromise knowing that abortion on demand is not in the spirit of Roe vs Wade, but prohibiting the practice in total certainly is not and who in this circumstance is the more unreasonable?

                  For the Right, in this topic, as you will find with many other, there is no middle ground. The extreme position is promoted by the GOP party and those at the top of conservative intellectual thought.

                  Thank you, Sir, may I have another?

                  1. promisem profile image94
                    promisemposted 17 months ago in reply to this

                    If you are a liberal / progressive, then I applaud your willingness to at least consider a middle ground. With due respect, I have to say I have met many liberals who weren't willing to consider any compromise.

 
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