jump to last post 1-6 of 6 discussions (74 posts)

Trump Now Blaming Sanders for the Violence

  1. Live to Learn profile image82
    Live to Learnposted 8 months ago

    In a typical example of Trump's refusal to take responsibility for the hatred he is spreading he is now implying Bernie Sanders is responsible for the violence.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … smsnnews11

    What is America's fascination with this buffoon?

  2. colorfulone profile image86
    colorfuloneposted 8 months ago

    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/12922212.jpg

    H.R. 347 Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act

    ‘‘(a) Whoever—
    ‘‘(1) knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building
    or grounds without lawful authority to do so;
    ‘‘(2) knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the
    orderly conduct of Government business or official functions,
    engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such
    proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so
    that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly
    conduct of Government business or official functions;
    ‘‘(3) knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt
    the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions,
    obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted
    building or grounds; or
    ‘‘(4) knowingly engages in any act of physical violence
    against any person or property in any restricted building or
    grounds;
    or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided
    in subsection (b).
    ‘‘(b) The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) is—
    ‘‘(1) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more
    than 10 years, or both, if— .....

    http://hubpages.com/forum/post/2802928

    The violent protesters will be indicted and prosecuted. 
    Same for a Trump supporter who was violent. 
    There has been enough blood shed and Trump supporter's lives lost. 

    Some people get so emotionally involved they can't see straight. 

    The use of terror and violence is not peaceful protest by Bernie Sanders supporters (or Hillary's). They need to be told to stop?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB3Vq276dJQ

    1. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

      That's it? Not surprised you'd have no reasonable response to this question. As much as one may dislike one party; putting a complete jack a** in office is not the solution.

      Edit. Oh, for goodness sake. I see you added something other than the picture. I guess I'll have to read it and respond.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        Gotta go with colorfulone on this one - even if Trump was "inciting to riot" (which he isn't) it is neither reason nor excuse to riot.  Saying that Trump was talking mean about the protesters doesn't excuse that they entered his rally for the express purpose of disrupting it, and it certainly doesn't mean that Trump is responsible for their actions.

        But it's funny to see: politician A accuses politician B of wrong doing.  Whereupon politician B accuses politician A of doing it himself.  Pretty predictable - as predictable as followers of "A" putting the blame on "B".  That the real blame lies squarely and solely on a third party (the protesters) doesn't matter to any of them!  (At least until "B" produces a recording of "A" giving instructions to the protesters to do it, but that certainly isn't going to happen!)

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          So, a protester shows up and that is reason enough for the supporters to attack them?  Can't agree with you on that one.

          And, I'm afraid we do have video footage of Trump condoning the violence.

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            Bernie's violent supporters:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB3Vq276dJQ

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              OK. We have one video where Trump tells his supporters it is OK to punch someone and he will pay the legal fees. You have another video where Sanders is advocating peaceful protest.

              I'm surprised you can't see the difference.

            2. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 8 months ago in reply to this

              You know, Colorfulone, I, too am surprized that you cannot see the difference. Sanders is not directing the protesters at Trump rallies. Sanders has not advocated violence neither overtly or otherwise. Trump is out is of line by suggesting that Bernie needs to get his supporters in line. Getting people 'in line' is what authoritarians do, that is Trump, not Sanders. There is plenty of protesters at Trump rallies that have nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. Trump is just lying with lame excuses for not operating at a higher level than the brutality that he encourages at his rallies. Is he going to pay all legal fees for his followers that are involved in thuggery?

              I do not condone the heckling and harrassment of Trump and his supporters at their rallies. But all this has a general aura that does not reflect favorably upon Trump and his claim to be 'presidential', simply by the way he is handling things.

          2. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            What does that have to do with Trump?  Whoever throws the first punch is at fault...except that people going to a private event for the express purpose of disrupting the peaceful enjoyment by others HAS to share some blame.

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              Yes of course they share some blame. But showing up to protest something is not justification for violence against them. Is that in any way shape or form part of the American spirit? Beat the crap out of those who disagree with you?

    2. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

      LOL. Now that I've read it I could have done without wasting my time. My response is still the same.

  3. Live to Learn profile image82
    Live to Learnposted 8 months ago

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=vi … ;FORM=VIRE

    Trump telling supporters it is ok to punch someone and that he will pay the legal fees. 

    Sorry Trump supporters. I have nothing against disagreeing but he is crossing the line and complaining because his behavior and that of his supporters is escalating the violence they have started.

    1. colorfulone profile image86
      colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

      Bernie's supporters were hitting Trump supporter in the head.  Are people not suppose to protect themselves when they are being assaulted?  You are kidding right?   lol

      Tell us you don't believe in self-defense.  It is Scriptural to defend yourself, loved ones, and neighbors....

      1. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        Seriously? What has been happening at Trump rallies which has led us to this point? Are we to ignore all of that in order to defend what they are doing now?  I can't.

        Also, please stop bringing up scripture. You've a proven track record of not knowing what you are talking about and I'm not going to beat a dead horse by attempting to enlighten you as to how off track you are.

        1. colorfulone profile image86
          colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          LOL ... c'mom!
          Trump is not the one acting like a fascist.  His critics are! 

          You said you are a follower Jesus Christ ... ok. 
          I'd love to hear how you could enlighten me.  smile   God bless!

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            You can accuse all the people you want of whatever you want. Trump is inciting the violence, condoning the violence and doing absolutely nothing to diffuse the situation.

            He thrives on this. And you guys are feeding the frenzy by defending it.

            I realize we are all frustrated with our government but this is not good for the American people. Turning on each other and then acting surprised that others respond in kind is ludicrous.

          2. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            Well, for one thing saying any of these people are defending themselves and their neighbors ignores the fact that they could just as easily walk away. Then, there would be no need to defend themselves and their neighbors. I don't remember any point where Jesus suggested his followers go to political rallies, argue with opposing political views or violently or peacefully protest.

            God has nothing to do with this. Don't drag him into politics. If he wanted to be there, we'd know it.

            1. colorfulone profile image86
              colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              Violent protest:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GepGO6H … e=youtu.be

              Luke 22:36  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." 

              Those are the words of Jesus saying to arm yourself.  Prepare!

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                LOL times about a million. That is not news. That is speculation. Yes there was an altercation. Labeling them all in the way that reporter did is not truthful reporting. I'd label it yellow journalism.

                Can you not see that all of the coverage of the Trump rallies has led up to this? That shoving protesters, calling them racist names, punching them when they are already being escorted out and those surrounding the people who did this cheering them on.....all of these actions helped to set the stage for that moment. And, it will get worse if Trump doesn't take a leadership role in making it go away.

                And if he can't take a leadership role in turning this election into matters of substance, not violence, he isn't fit to be president. If any other candidate played into this then they are not fit to be president.

                Since we are quoting scripture, I remember something about turning the other cheek and if someone demands your shirt, give them your cloak as well. I suppose you think what he meant was, just punch them in the face.

    2. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

      Hmm.  What I heard was Trump telling his supporters to stop anyone intending violence by "knocking the crap" out of them.  And he's right - it is legal to do so and it's even the right thing to do.  You kind of left out the part where it is only to happen to those already starting violence, didn't you?

      1. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        No, I didn't leave anything out. I don't remember hearing anything about protesters throwing tomatoes. So, what we have is a guy saying 'If someone looks like they are going to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them' and then the supporters are doing 'knock the crap out of them' without caring whether there was a tomato involved, or not. And Trump saying 'oh gee, well they threw up a finger so it was OK to hit them'

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          "And Trump saying 'oh gee, well they threw up a finger so it was OK to hit them':

          I seem to have missed that part, too.  Have to hone up my listening skills, I guess.  I do have to wonder, though, just how sanguine you would be when protester violence erupts in your private events, time after time and from people intending for that violence to happen.  How long would it take until you told your guests to do whatever is necessary to keep them out?  How long till you looked the other way while your guest whaled on a trouble maker that came expressly to make trouble and cause violence? 

          'Cause I don't think it would take me long at all.  Just a few instances and security would get an order to thrown them out so hard they bounce, and if it takes a few broken bones to convince them to leave me and my friends alone, so be it.

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            So, we now know you would tell supporters to beat up those who disagree with your views. I wouldn't. That's just me.

      2. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        The time and situation is everything under the law.  I wouldn't allow someone to attack my Mom, who I take care of, or myself in our own home.

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          No, it is not. The law expects us to respond in a reasonable fashion.

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            I said,  "The time and situation is everything under the law.  I wouldn't allow someone to attack my Mom, who I take care of, or myself in our own home."

            You said, "No, it is not. The law expects us to respond in a reasonable fashion."

            Its not okey to protect my 89 year old mother?  or myself?   
            I would have to be totally stupid to listen to that advice.
            The law says I can protect my Mom and myself.   
            The law would expect me to respond effectively at the time in a given situation.

            Are you alright?

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              I don't know colorful. Was your mother a part of this conversation? Is she beating up on protesters at rallies and calling them racist names?

  4. RJ Schwartz profile image91
    RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago

    How can Mr. Trump be blamed for the violence - he didn't fund the protestors (someone else did in fact admit to doing so and stressed it would continue,) nor did he make any statements (aside from one) that had any connection to violence.  We see the crowd of protestors made up of people who support breaking the law (illegal immigration,) people who are demanding free stuff (education,) and waving the flags of other nations.  I'm sorry, but as much as people might not like Donald Trump or how he comes across, he isn't the problem - its the demonstrators. 

    The very idea that they try to label him as racist, violence inciter, etc. shows you that the establishment will stop at nothing to keep him from being elected and putting an end to the abuses America has been forced to suffer under during the Obama years.

    1. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

      I am not the establishment. I am very anti Washington. I would love it if Trump was a viable alternative. I just can't see how reasonable people can condone the violence at his rallies. These aren't illegal immigrants I've seen them rough up. These aren't people demanding free stuff. I doubt you even know what any of those people were there for.

      Yes, remove them from the rally. No, do not attempt to justify punching them when they are already being removed. No, don't defend them when they have bruised a reporter.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image79
        Ken Burgessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        The TRUTH is Trump said things he would have been much better of NOT saying IE - 'punch the guy and I will pay your legal fees' if such is accurate
        AND
        Organized group efforts IE - Black Lives Matter, MoveOn, etc. made deliberate efforts to cause violence and anarchy at more than one rally for the very purpose that the media has used it for... against Trump.
        BUT
        Trump has a right to be at his own rally, and say what he wants to say to those who came to see him.  Groups that oppose him don't have the right to interfere with those there to hear him speak, or to try and keep Trump from speaking, or to bring violence to those gathered, or  to attack Trump.

        In my mind it is pretty clear cut... you can protest outside the place where Trump is speaking, but you don't belong inside it trying to shout him down, or trying to attack him, or attack those who support him.
        And its a damned shame that anyone even thinks otherwise, or would try to defend such actions... those people are far more dangerous than Trump could dream of being.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          +1  That's it in a nutshell.  You want to protest, do it outside instead of bringing violence into a private gathering put on by someone else.  You want to holler to a crowd about how terrible Trump is, get your own hall and crowd to do it with.

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            You guys are actually scaring me. If this is what America has come to, or has been all along....condoning violence for those we agree with and abhorring it in all others...

            What a bunch of hypocrites we are.

            1. RJ Schwartz profile image91
              RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              Don't blame us for telling you the facts - I'm sorry you didn't get a bunch of Me too answers supporting your beliefs on this thread.  America has always been a violent nation, its just that too many people choose to ignore it if it doesn't suit their cause.  Just look at the city of Chicago and the number of shootings and murders that happen daily - why aren't you raising a loud voice against them - actual deaths occur, but you and the rest of the liberal crowd are stone silent.......

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                I'm not a liberal. I am a reasonable, responsible and civilized American. The fact that no one has chirped in doesn't change that fact. One doesn't need validation when attempting to be compassionate.  The only fact I've seen shared by you is that you think might makes right. I disagree.

        2. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          Expecting Trump and his supporters to be civilized is very dangerous. Sure. That makes sense.

          1. RJ Schwartz profile image91
            RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            Trump supporters ARE being civilized - what part are you not understanding about the events?  Its the paid Soros protestors bringing the fight to them.

            1. colorfulone profile image86
              colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              +!   
              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/12922398.jpg

              Great work?

            2. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              I suppose everything that led up to that moment. Every piece of footage we've seen of Trump supporters abusing anyone and everyone who places themselves in the general vicinity of a Trump Nazi rally being bullied prior to that moment doesn't count.

              He's a bully and it appears the fact that his bullying ways are going unchecked is emboldening people to stoop to his level. I realize America plays to the lowest common denominator in politics but I am appalled they they attempt to justify this behavior by pretending that it somehow makes sense. It is exactly what it appears to be.

              Shameful.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image79
                Ken Burgessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                The only thing I see shameful is your attempt to twist our posts to suit some idea in your head that Trump is evil, and we support that evil, and those that oppose his views go to his rallies to commit violence and disrupt the rally are within their rights.

                1. colorfulone profile image86
                  colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                  That's what she does, twist our posts, and even the truth when presented with facts, or law.   (cognitive dissonance)   She'll shame you, call names,  lol you...   Some people just cannot admit they were wrong, made a mistake....but, look out if you make a mistake!  There's hell to pay.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                    Funny, that's what I think about you sometimes. And then I think if I listen long enough you might make sense. Then I realize that was a really dumb idea.

                2. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                  I don't think anyone is evil. I think Trump is doing whatever he thinks it takes to win the election. I am simply saddened by the one sided nature of the support. I think America has become so polarized and so unwilling to fairly assess situations that it is impossible for us to see past it. I truly would like to support Trump but the violence sickens me and I do believe he is reveling in it.

              2. RJ Schwartz profile image91
                RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                Show us some footage - better yet I'll provide some info

                Moveon.Org is conducting fundraising activities from the Chicago protests against Donald Trump that prompted the Republican presidential front-runner to cancel a rally there Friday, and promises that more disruptions are on the way.

                Ilya Sheyman, a failed Illinois contender for Congress and the executive director of MoveOn.org Political Action, has taken credit for the violence at a cancelled Trump event last night in Chicago. He promised similar violence and disruption will occur at future Trump political events leading up to the election

                Funny but you don't see Trump supporters out at the Democrat events

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                  I don't doubt that the Democrats are doing whatever they can to turn this to their advantage.

                  But, there would be nothing to use if we hadn't seen months of footage of Trump rallies.

                  I don't mean to demonize Trump. I want him to rise above this disgusting phenomena he has started. He can do it. I think he won't do it because he thinks it is what America wants. It lowers my opinion of him every time he attempts to justify it.

  5. Live to Learn profile image82
    Live to Learnposted 8 months ago

    The violence simply feeds Trumps ego. I am surprised decent people will condone this.

  6. colorfulone profile image86
    colorfuloneposted 8 months ago

    See!   smile

    1. Live to Learn profile image82
      Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

      I'm sorry. I simply lost the ability to respect your opinion when you refused to back off from a lie. About 20 lies ago.

      1. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        One thing I am not is a liar.    See how you are?

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          I'm fine. I accept that you don't believe you are a liar. I, unfortunately, have read many posts by you where you were consistently proven wrong and refused to stop posting falsehoods. I'm not sure how to categorize that. If you can share the term you would like me to use I will ensure that is the term I use when referencing it.

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            Excuse me?    That is totally false.  You just don't agree, so I am lying?  That's not how it works...people do have different perspectives....and they aren't lying.  Finding an alternative source of real news instead of the liberal mainstream media would be very helpful.

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              I'm not sure there is anything to excuse you for. Nor would it be my place to believe I was in a position to be asked to excuse you. I apologize if you took anything I said to mean I did think I was.

              Edit. You are killing me with this adding stuff to your post after the fact. If you doubt, go back and read through the thread you started about Ben Carson not wanting a Muslim for president. That should enlighten you, if you decide to be honest about whether your posts are honest or not.

              1. colorfulone profile image86
                colorfuloneposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                Just because we don't agree with someone else's perspective doesn't mean a coin doesn't have a flip side to it.  Cred helps me see another perspective at times and I appreciated it when we have a discussion.  We learn from each other.

                “We’re looking at rioting and we’re calling that protesting. The cops are the bad guys, the crooks are the victims now."

                Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr told Sean Hannity that everything in this country seems to be backwards.

                https://www.facebook.com/FoxNews/videos … 6/?fref=nf

                I like listening to Clarke, he knows how things are.   You might not like him, but I hope you can at least respect what he has to say as an officer of the law.   It'll give you a different perspective, maybe, other then MSM.  Just a suggestion,...no problem. 

                ADDED:   I love Dr. Carson...I cannot stand Obama, but I am not lying.   You don't have to take it personal, its not personal toward you.  He is a political figure and is open for criticism like public figures.    If you don't agree, fine, I have no problem with that, but insults are getting real old.  Posting about Obama is an outlet for me.  Some times truth is uncomfortable.  I do not have any respect for the guy. Liberals do though, and that's fine and dandy.  I get that!  But, I have a right to free speech without being harassed by another hubber and repeatedly called a liar.  ---  I have been turning the other cheek, but I'm tired of that.  So, I am asking you to stop it, because I'm fed up with it.  Now, I said that as nice as I can.  The rules of the forum are not hard to follow. If you cannot, I would suggest we do not interact with each other.  I'm drawing a line in the sand.  A truce!  ---  Its like you have been an enemy.  Which is weird, because I normally have fellowship with other Christians. And, you even attack me on my Christianity.  I don't know what your problem is, but it isn't me.  -  The Lord bless you!

      2. RJ Schwartz profile image91
        RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

        Has a Micro Aggression been committed against you?
        Do you need to call in a "Safe Space" development team?
        Are you suffering from emotional discourse from an overdose of FACTS?
        Using the Liberal - Shutting off anything I don't agree with tactic not getting you the respect you think you're entitled to?
        Repeating the same line over and over not making it fact today?

        Well, then you're suffering from a severe case of Liberalitis - if left unchecked this could destroy your entire life and make you extremely ugly and possible turn you into a lesbian feminist - Hillary, Nancy Pelosi, and Debbie Whatshername have been suffering for decades.  I suggest you visit Breitbart.com and force yourself to read the real news of the day until your head is cleared up and you can resume thinking with your own brain - beware, the liberal brainwashers wont give up cranial control that easily, so you'll be tested with offers of free education, free food stamps, and even teased with free daycare and feminine hygiene products.

        Please get help soon, before its too late!!!!

        1. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

          Oh gosh. An ugly lesbian feminist. Way to dumb down your retorts. I suppose now I'm supposed to say you are in jeopardy of becoming a closet gay guy who cross dresses?

          1. RJ Schwartz profile image91
            RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            When you deem the opinions of others who oppose you as hate speech and lies, they call that Fascism.  Burn the books, silence the opposition, only the Democratic doctrine is right.....You haven't posted a single thing that anyone in the thread agreed with.  I'm tired of hearing you whine, please close the thread before you have an aneurysm or worse.

            1. RJ Schwartz profile image91
              RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              Unfollowed - don't bother responding

            2. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 8 months ago in reply to this

              I don't have a lot of problems with L & L's positions in this forum discussion. In my opinion they are more correct than otherwise.

            3. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 8 months ago in reply to this

              The funny thing is I'm not a democrat.

              I used to call myself a compassionate conservative. These days, I suppose open minded and reasonable is all you need to call yourself if you swing Republican but don't have a taste for Trump.

              What many of you don't realize is if Trump is what he appears to be to those who are scared of him he will do lasting damage to the Republican party that may not be recovered from. That would be OK if we weren't a 2 party system and it would be OK if we weren't in a position where we need some conservative leadership which can reach across the aisle to correct some serious missteps.

              I don't need to shout, punch, bully those I disagree with because I do think reasonable people can disagree and still be reasonable. And reasonable people can find solutions we can all live with and sleep well at night knowing we did the best for everyone. Not just our selfish interests. I also believe I'd rather lose than become such as that which we are seeing at Trump rallies.

        2. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 8 months ago in reply to this

          RJ, I am liberal, and I resemble that remark. Your attacks on progressives are unfounded. From my perspective, it is the conservatives that are the most irrational and through their moral priggishness and hypocrisy, sucking up to the plutocrat at the risk of their own well being, they prove it every day.

          Yes, I want the clear choice between Sanders and Trump. But if Trump gets trashed will you live with the will of the people and their selection of Sanders without some sort of rightwing resurrection taking us all back to the past, when everybody knew their place?

          I am honest when I say that whatever conservatism has morphed into over the last 30 years, I dislike a great deal.

          The references to lesbian feminists are really below the belt and reflects on the anxieties of the Right and why you can never win the presidency in an open, general election. Do you realize that you are sounding just like Trump?

          1. RJ Schwartz profile image91
            RJ Schwartzposted 8 months ago in reply to this

            I respect you Cred, so I'm going to top toe with this answer.  Since I live in America, I have the right of free speech and if I choose to say something that is disagreeable, then its my prerogative.  If Bernie Sanders gets elected, America will deal with it the same way we dealt with Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the other Presidents who failed to live up to their promises.  I am a member of the Republican party, not the conservative movement which has hijacked the party.  I'm for America first and I do not believe in all of the social programs we have in America - the so-called progressive movement has left people in poverty for decades with no way to climb out.  I'm for a robust economy which provides plenty of jobs for citizens.  I'm for halting immigration until we get our problems internally fixed.  Did I hit below the belt with my overly sarcastic montage?  Yes, I did, but it was only after post after post with a closed minded person.  Why do you think Trump wants to take us all to the past because he wants to protect America and her citizens?  What are you worried about, because I'd genuinely like to know.  Are you implying his plans are racist in some way?

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 8 months ago in reply to this

              RJ, this is the sort of dialogue I been wanting to have and I cannot think of anyone else better to have it with than you.

              I can disagree with you while not engaging in personal insults.

              So, you are a member of the Republican party? But today, the GOP and the conservative movement is one in the same. But, you have said as much.

              Well, I believe some of the social programs are necessary, are you against SS, Medicare, Medicaid etc?  If you are, then you are that blast to the past to the 1920's. Do you really think that it was better then? I am for America first too, but obviously that has different meanings for the both of us, yes? Do we return to 19th century tenement houses and piece work factories?

              What is the Right's solution to poverty, resist minimum wage, beggars on the street reminiscent of Dickens novels?  As, I mentioned before, every major world power provide a minimum wage for its workers. The GOP is against this in principle, why? What is that the rightwinger knows that the rest of the planet does not understand?

              We are all for a robust economy with more good paying jobs, I just don't believe that we should leave stimulating the economy to Thurston Howell III and his buddies. 

              Ok, on the immigration as long as the hold applies to EVERYONE and not just some specific group based on irrational and unsubstantiated fears from the Right.

              You conservative types seem pretty closed minded to me, but it is just a matter of perspective.

              Why do people, identical in most of the ways that matter see the world from totally different perspectives. It is much like the whether the 'dress' is gold or blue. (Red and Blue?)

              I am worried about a man that is an authoritarian strongman figure rather than a traditional leader by consensus.

              I am worried about a man that talks about dumb negotiators and bad deals while he has had no diplomatic experience.

              I worry about a man that foment the fans of racism with his birther and transcript demands from the President, who does he think that he is?

              I worry about a man who is long on rhetoric and short on feasible solutions, besides the sheer force of his personality, how does he back up all of his demands in the foreign policy arena?

              There is more, I will have to research and focus but I am willing to do just that, let's get it all out there.

              The only idea that I liked was making our allies in the middle east pay for use of American defense forces.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                If I might interject.

                "Why do people, identical in most of the ways that matter see the world from totally different perspectives."

                I see your stance in an ever increasing minimum wage and increasing social programs (Not SS and medicare - they are bought and paid for by the recipient) as one answer to the quoted one.  The liberal and conservative (not meaning the radical religious right) both want everybody to lead a fine life, but the price for the country is simply too high.  Providing that utopian dream will destroy the country.

                So the fiscal conservative looks down the road 10, 20 or 50 years and sees stagnation and decay, as the end result and denies that it is a good idea regardless of the short term results.

                The fiscal liberal jumps with joy at those short term gains and refuses to consider the long term results.  Today's pleasure is what counts, and the future will take care of itself.  When we have to borrow such massive sums each year to pay for those short term gains, shifting the cost to future generations, it says something.

                So we have radically different perspectives from people wanting the same thing.  We even see it in the new term for "liberal".  "Progressive".  But "progression" to eventual decay in just a generation or three is not something to be applauded and the conservative recognizes the polispeak for what it is - rhetoric, words, but little else - while the "progressive" is gleeful that we are progressing (for the day) towards eventual utopia.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 8 months ago in reply to this

                  Wilderness, always open to your participation.

                  Your point is well taken, and you are right about the costs being over the top, that danger is ever present. I don't know where that line needs to be drawn, but looking at the pie charts, there are a lot of sacred cows that are difficult to touch.

                  But the fiscal conservative has always preached gloom and doom when ever the minimum wage has been raised or when another 'socialistic' program has been introduced. These arguments and controversies go back to the thirties, I am glad that the nation did not listen to them then. When the conservatives were howling in the thirties and forties about the long term results, what were they?

                  Being fiscally responsible is not something to ignore, you and other conservatives probably consider the ACA as 'over the top', the straw that broke the camels back.  It is also a matter of priorities, I can find a great deal of waste in DOD, subsidies to industries etc.

                  It is not so much that I disagree with your premise, I am not sure where that 'over the top line' would be crossed and my tolerances and limits and consequent adjustments may well be different from yours.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 8 months ago in reply to this

                    Where is the doom and gloom of prophesies in the 30's?  Are they that half the nation is now getting charity from the other half?  While it's popular to write that off as "inequality of wealth" being the cause, isn't it just as possible that people won't work to improve themselves if they don't have to?  If the improvement just means that they now have to subsidize instead of being subsidized?  When that improvement in earnings means that there is but a very small improvement in living standards for a big cost in effort (as the subsidies are taken away with increasing earnings), could that be playing a major part in why so many "need" charity just to "survive"?

                    I'm sure that our tolerances are different.  But I saw a meme the other day that compared government deficits to a homeowners by simply lopping off a few zero's, bringing those numbers down to something reasonable for a private household.  If we as individuals spent as our government does, with ever increasing debt for no return, we would be bankrupt in very short order, and it's really hard to see that as merely a difference in tolerances to debt.

 
working