Lawsuit Planned Over North Carolina's Ban on Transgender Bathrooms
I'm posting about this because I legitamately don't understand the controversy in several ways. Problems:
1.) Do we want transgender bathrooms?
1a.) Shouldn't the goal be for people to use whichever bathrooms are assigned to the genders with which they identify?
1b.) Doesn't the creation of new segregated bathrooms fall squarely within the realm of "discrimination"?
2.) Unisex bathrooms. You can have unisex bathrooms, as evidenced by the unisex bathrooms that are basically everywhere.
3.) How many times have I used the men's restroom, as a woman? Countless. Countless times. Because women take too long.
I believe the Obama Administration has to be insane to be pushing the transgender bathroom laws on states. His DOJ trying to strong arm North Carolina with threats of lawsuits is loonicy. What a jackass for not caring about opening the bathrooms and lockrooms up to potential perverts and putting women and girls at risk.
Nope, he would rather make laws to protect transgender men (any male who identifies as a female) and give them rights to invade the privacy of all the females in America. Transgender men to females still have the DNA of males, and eventually they all have sex-change regret...be it three years or thirty years later.
The war on women continues...
This isn't equality, its perversion.
So much in this post to chuckle at, but I'm genuinely curious how you feel about your man Trump saying who cares what bathroom people use (or something to that effect)? Yeah, I know he walked that back, just like a politician would, to please his perpetually fearful base, but you know he doesn't give a whit about the issue. How do you justify your love for Trump, a "jackass" who "doesn't care about opening the bathrooms and lockrooms (sic) up to potential perverts and putting women and girls at risk"? Just wondering.
I don't understand the point of transgender bathrooms at all!!! It creates lots of questions in my head.
Why can't the person just use whatever bathroom they identify with?
Are people really stupid enough to believe that men will all of a sudden start dressing up like women to come in the female bathroom and rape them? If they wanted to do that they already would be. They are criminals, so they aren't going to wait for a law to pass in order to commit a crime.
Do people really think that they have never been in the bathroom with a transgender person before? Or a person of the opposite sex openly using the wrong bathroom because it's the closest or the one with a toilet open?
I don't get why we need a separate bathroom.
The comments I see on social media really show me how stupid people are!
Yes, there are creeps that will use such a law to facilitate sexual assault. I am male and want to 'identify' as female? I doubt it. If there is such an issue, go for a restroom for each gender and a unisex bathroom for general access with either a locked outer door of private locked stalls inside the general room. I am offended with a woman in the men's restroom while I am taking a leak, and there are more than a few women that would feel the same way were the situation reversed.
Does this all seem Victorian to you? Well, this is pretty bohemian stuff you are putting out here, where do you get it?
If someone is offended because the person URINATING near them is a different gender, they need to work out their issues! I'm still not understanding why anyone would care what private part a person has that is using the bathroom.
There are dressing rooms segregated by gender, in gym and elsewhere. Are you talking about dismissing the necessity of all of these? If toilets can't be private between gender, than you would have to be saying that nothing is.
Because of obvious anatomical differences, urinals are used by men and are out in the open.
While artificial barriers between the sexes have been falling of which I am completely comfortable, this one is not so much.
You are talking about turning around the tradition of modesty and civility between the sexes in this most critical area that has existed for centuries. We are not ready for the 'Starship Troopers' world that you seem to be advocating. We are a long way from expecting people to be anywhere near comfortable with this. There is a lot more involved than 'working out issues'.
What you are talking about is a total reassessment of this issue, something that has been considered common sense and a foundation without question?
By that logic, gay and bi-sexual men shouldn't be using the Men's restroom either because they'll see your penis. Same goes for those crafty lesbian and bi-sexual women in the Women's room!!!
Why, though? What's offensive about taking a piss while someone with different genitalia is in the room (not watching you while you do it)? Seems like a very strange thing to get offended over.
Honestly though, how many ladies do you know that would welcome men, those with a female identity or otherwise into their restroom? I mean have you just taken a sample to get their reaction?
I think you will find it not strange at all. This segregation between genders I have found everywhere, Europe included. What kind of brave new world are you advocating?
I've never taken a sample, no. I don't really care who's using the same bathroom as I am, I'll be doing my business in a stall where no one's going to see me pull my pants down, so I don't feel it makes much of a difference.
I've used a few shared bathrooms that all just have stalls for both men and women in Vancouver. I guess we're just wacky progressive Canadians who don't mind washing our hands next to a person of the opposite gender... Eeek!
I'm also all for shared washrooms because as a woman I've had to wait in line to use the stupid women's washroom while the men's room has been empty. So frustrating.
Gee, do we have to turn the world upside down just for your convenience?
Being so courageous, have you ever went into a men's restroom with men in them?
Hey man, it was just a little addition to why I like shared bathrooms, I'm not out there protesting over the injustice to my bladder.
And no, I haven't (not on purpose, anyway), because I am clearly a woman and identify as one, so the stickdude on the door tells me it's not socially acceptable. But if I identified as a man and looked like a man then I'm sure I could walk in and no one would notice or care.
I understand your trepidation, but her logic is sound. As it stands now, a man could walk into most women's restrooms anyway, so shared restrooms would not be any less safe than current restrooms. It's just one of those "Ew" things that really don't make any logical sense.
Thanks, Panther. While the man can walk into a women's restroom, I could be charged with lewd behavior or whatever it is one is charged with for being totally nude in public for example... (unlawful carnal knowledge or lewd behavior) A legal penalty, which may well exist, would be deterrent and it is better than nothing at all.
I'm a transman. I look like a man. If I went into the Women's bathroom, there would be screams echoing from it. Though my SS and Driver's License "proves" I am male, my Birth Certificate does not, which - correct me if I am wrong - I believe is a requirement needed to use bathrooms there. And I've seen videos of masculine dressed lesbians being physically thrown out of bathrooms in that state because they didn't want to show proof they are female. This goes beyond being a trans issue.
This is why we need a third set of facilities -- for people who don't mind being in mixed company when they are naked. For the rest of us, we should not be forced to be in mixed company when naked.
ZRB, it doesn't matter what you look like. You can be a drag queen and use the men's restroom, while I would not recommend it. Anatomically male verses anatomically female is the issue.
Agree with all of this. There is no one standing at the door to a public bathroom checking everyone's genitals to make sure they're going in the right one. It would be easy enough for a dude to dress up as a woman to get into the women's bathroom undetected if that's what they wanted to do. There seems to be a weird assumption that saying "sure, it's fine for a transgendered person to use the bathroom they identify with" translates to "sure, guys can walk into the women's room and get away with sexually assaulting them", when in fact those two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
That is right, nobody is checking but if there is an issue, just don't get caught as there may be criminal penalties. I knew a guy many, many years ago at the Denver airport who as janitor was arrested by police for looking in on women in the bathroom stall from the mosaic tiles above. There are still a lot of sickos, and the deterrent of the law may well be the only remedy available
This culture still freaks at public breast feeding, unisex open toilets? Now, comparatively, this open toilet idea is Buck Rogers' stuff.
If someone is making no effort to physically look like the gender they are identifying with, then they wouldn't use that gender's restroom due to fear of being found out. Pretty much, if she doesn't look something like Lavern Cox or he doesn't look something like Aydian Dowling in their early transition period, it's safe to say they're a fake.
See my answer above. The law does not go by what people look like, only by what they say they "identify" as.
Anyway, as a woman, I don't care if a man "really" looks like a woman, I don't want him in the shower with me, or sharing a hotel room with my daughter on a school-sponsored trip.
Plus, Lavern Cox does not look like a woman when he is naked.
I suppose that you can look like a woman going into a mans restroom, but again, I would not recommend it. It is too much trouble dealing with peoples thoughts as to which gender they belong. If you have male genitalia, you go to the men's restroom, female gentalia, you go to the women's restroom. Why do we have to make it more complicated than this?
Was visiting San Francisco last year and entered a restroom out on the pier, to find a man dressed as a woman. A double take, a second look and it was obvious he was male.
OK - if "she" wants to be here it won't bother me...but the pre-teen than followed me in was disturbed and frightened. Looked at the "woman", looked at the young boy, gave him a wink and proceeded about my business. The kid took heart at my disregard of the situation and did his own thing. As we left he smiled at me and winked back, then watched as the "woman" walked on down the pier.
We both managed to survive the shock, but it really was apparent that the boy was upset and to some degree frightened - I'm sure he would have run right back out were I not there to lend some encouragement.
So not sure what the solution is - I generally agree with you that genitalia is what counts, but this kid was scared of something so far out of his experience. Maybe a "family" bathroom, unisex but with only one toilet and intended for only a parent and young child that transgender people (or cross dressers) can use?
Your solution is an excellent one, why can't we do this and end all of the drama, embarrassment and controversy? What is to be gained by stirring up the pot in this way, who would want to?
What is to be gained? Tolerance, acceptance and a reduction in hurt feelings.
Fine and noble goals, but our society is not ready for that. We are too firmly tied to the concept that differences are wrong, that differences require grouping of people according to those differences and of course to Christianity or some other religion.
Until we can learn as a people that grouping ourselves or others according to those differences is both silly and harmful, until we can learn that our religion is no better than anyone else's, we will continue to be intolerant, unaccepting and will hurt others as a result.
Who knows, within a generation or two, my point of view on this topic could well be considered quite quaint and Victorian. I have seen stranger things happen....
LOL Much like the views of 500 years ago on slavery. Now considered quaint (or worse) and victorian.
The human race grows morally, but oh so slowly! I would wish for truly unisex bathrooms (even though the time requirements for women is deplorable and makes for long lines), but we simply are not ready for that.
I agree that we're making it much more complicated than it is. Because you want this guy to go to the women's bathroom (he has a vagina).
If he walked into the men's room and used a stall would you really be all that troubled by his thoughts on gender? Or would you not think twice about it and be totally unaffected overall? I'm guessing the latter.
If you have a vagina rather than penis, how could he be a man? It is not what I think about the person and his or her sexual thought. If you have penis go to the men's, a vagina go to the women's. I need not dwell on the mindset of others under that simple concept. We spoke once before, as a progressive Canadian, how has the open all sex bathroom concept been working out?
Has it been all the rage?
The earth has yet to crumble and I have yet to hear of anyone physically or emotionally harmed by peeing in a closed stall next to someone with different genitalia. So I guess it's going fine!
Lots of people like to bring up "scaring children" as a reason to keep people with certain genitals out of bathrooms but I'd like to see how people reacted if the guy in the picture walked into a bathroom with their young daughters. It's what you want, after all.
Seriously, Aime, why is this matter of such importance to you that we have to make this change? Why can't you be satisfied using the restroom for your anatomical gender? There are urinals as well, not all private stalls, what then?
I like to be well informed, I have not heard on any initiative in Canda that will permit men to enter women's bathroom or vice versa? There still seems to be a lot of resistance to the concept. But, there are the bohemian types that thrive pushing the vast majority of people into the discomfort zone for no good reason.
But you're not answering my question. The picture I posted looks absolutely nothing like a woman so how do you figure it's simpler to send him into the women's room? I really think there's a whole lot of arguing and talking for no good reason to be honest as transgendered people have been using the bathrooms they identify with forever and a vast majority I'm sure have gone completely unnoticed. It has unfortunately become necessary to make changes to the actual laws because the transgendered people who DO get noticed are often treated very poorly.
Why is it of such importance to me? Because one of my closest friends is transgendered. It sucks to know and love a person and to see them judged on EVERYTHING, even something as small as where to use the bathroom. He hasn't undergone gender reassignment surgery so by your criteria he'd have to use the women's washroom and that would cause him a world of embarrassment and hurt. He's been using the men's room for as long as he's been living his life as a man and no one has ever blinked an eye. Heck, I knew him for a long time before he told me he was transgendered and I NEVER would guessed had he not told me. That's what I don't really understand - why people are SO focused on genitals that you don't even see when it comes to using the washroom, when in literally every other way they can be seen as the opposite sex.
Sorry, I should have looked at the photo, and you are trying to say that that is a woman, yeah right?
Here are my solutions 1. have a third restroom for people confused between their desires and actual anatomy, when his or her anatomy is inconsistent with the gender assigned restroom they wish to use. All such people can use such restrooms since obviously they don't have a problem with the quaint idea of privacy.
2. If you can not be identified as being of the wrong gender going into bathroom for use of the opposite sex, more power to you. I wouldn't know nor would I care. Just don't get caught.
I sympathise with your friend and have offered 2 good alternatives for he/she.
My question to you is from the a poster that spoke about gyms, public dressing rooms, showers etc. You have no problems with nudity before the opposite sex? Is this sensational or would you really accept this in your own case?
We cannot accomodate the aberrant behavior and circumstance of anybody, to the discomfort of everbody else.
So, what is next, do we allow our children run about naked in school?
What about gym locker rooms where women must shower and undress in front of men? What about school locker rooms where girls must shower and undress with boys? What about school-sponsored overnight trips where girls and boys would share a hotel room? What about shared hospital rooms and women's shelters?
These types of facilities are segregated by sex, not by "gender identity."
Yeah, Aime, what about that. Is modesty and privacy a thing of the past?
Women and girls have a right to bodily privacy in private facilities set aside for their sex. It is not ignorance, hatred or bigotry when a woman or a girl does not want to get naked in front of a man or a boy.
You are preaching to the choir Smart and Fun. Sexuality, unlike race, ethnicity, etc. Is primal and wired into our brains. It is not subject to social and cultural considerations. I would not want my son or daughter put in a position to go naked before members on the opposite sex.
"Sexuality, unlike race, ethnicity, etc. Is primal and wired into our brains."
You're right, and that seems to be the problem. That it is NOT "wired" into our gonads, but rather into our brains. Sex, on the other hand and being sometimes different than sexuality, IS a function of gonads.
Having been a teenage kid once, I will confess that IT is a 'difference' that is virtually impossible to ignore. It has never been about culture or ideology, it just is....
I agree and feel the same way. But it IS about culture and ideology - there have always been cultures without nudity taboos. Witness ancient Romans and Greeks with their public bathhouses, or even Japan. There are also primitive tribes without it. It is almost as those taboos originated and grew with the bible and associated texts such as the Koran. Plus, of course, those cultures where clothing was necessary as protection much of the year.
I personally got a kick out of someone who wants abortion to be illegal pointing fingers at others for declaring a "war on women."
I do love good common sense. If, it were just the transgenders who have had a complete sex-change operation that would be using the ladies rooms, I would have no problem with that, perhaps that's what Trump was thinking, too. I do have a problem with drag queens, pedophiles, rapists, peepers, and perverts preying on women and girls in the ladies rooms though...and I believe that is why Trump back-tracked..to stop backlashes and misinterpretations of what he meant. He was being asked if he would let Bruce Jenner used the ladies room at Trump Towers, I believe.
I have a heavy heart for transgenders because they all have very serious psychological problems, and eventually they all have sex-change regret, many commit suicide or are murdered. Its really very sad. I personally know some transsexuals...and, some bi-sexuals, lesbians, and gays, but they do not have the same kind of psychological problems as do transsexuals.
I would be all for the LGB'T' lobbyists if they were about making sure that people who identify with a different sex get the psychological and spiritual help and support they desperately need, before deciding to have a sex change. But, they are telling these people once you get the sex-change everything will be just fine, and its real not. They are not getting the psychological and spiritual help they need afterward either.
I am emotionally involved over the whole lack of help for people who identify with a different sex. They are people too. BUT, women and girls who use public bathrooms are people who need to be respected and protected from predators taking advantaged of them. I love people in general, and respect their rights. Predators, pervs and disrespectful people I do not respect because they don't respect others'.
I really do care about the transsexuals rights,...just as much as I care about the unborn babies right to life. If that makes you or whoever chuckle, then that is a reflection on yourselves.
I actually understand your point of view, even if I don't agree with it. The only thing I will say is that it is already illegal for anyone to prey on women or children in restrooms, so I'm not understanding how a transgender person using the restroom is any more threatening than anyone else. Adult male pedophiles, for example, prey on boys and we are not banning men from using restrooms with boys. Your logic is not sound.
Adult male pedophiles, for example, prey on boys and we are not banning men from using restrooms with boys. Your logic is not sound.
There are men dressing as women and violating women's and girls' privacy and even abusing them in ladies rooms, but we don't read / hear about that on MSM.
Since when do laws stop criminals? Or, make them honest?
"Pedophiles: a person who is sexually attracted to children"
I'm not going to banter or debt with you about your logic, PP.
This has been a baffling one for me from the very start, and I'm honestly still not sure how to feel about it. My initial reaction is
No way. I would be extremely uncomfortable with having a transgender woman in the bathroom with me.
And then I ask myself why, which inevitably leads me to the question of why we have different bathrooms for different genders to begin with. It's really about safety and privacy. Stores aren't obligated to provide bathrooms and they do so as a courtesy to their customers. We are not obligated to use them, either.
That being said, as far as safety goes, I question if anyone would be in any increased danger from a law allowing transgenders to use restrooms of their choice. If someone wanted to dress up as a woman and creep on women, they'd do it with or without a law facilitating it, based on gender identity. Of course this is the part where heated discussions come in. Fathers worrying about their daughters, etc. I can understand that, and perhaps it seems like a reasonable concern, but we have to look at this from a realistic point of view. Still, would I feel safe in this situation, being a woman? No. Because imagine a scenario where a man walks into a woman's restroom and is obviously there for perverse reasons. If questioned, he could respond with "My identity is female," and no one could argue any differently. He could get away with that type of invasion of privacy. Why? There's no way to prove it. Gender identity isn't something you can prove and not always something you can easily determine, and isn't always expressed in someone's attire. So would I feel safe? No way. Would I be? Not sure Allowing transgenders to use the bathroom of their choice really would make the difference pointless, from a literal point of view. And it's not like there's a genital check at the bathroom doors, so you can't logically make the distinction between people who've had full transgender surgery and people who simply identify with the other gender.
What it all seems to boil down to is: whose comfort are we going to sacrifice? The comfort of the people who do not wish to have a transgender in their bathroom, for their own comfort and privacy? Or the comfort and privacy of the transgender person? I can only imagine the discomfort a transgender female would feel, being forced to use the men's bathroom, and vice versa. Public bathrooms which are separate for each gender are there for individuals' safety, privacy, and comfort; in either scenario, someone's is going to be violated.
So, If a transgender person who is anatomically male is allowed in a public women's restroom, would I use it? No. Because I would not be comfortable using ANY public restroom from that point on, due to my own concerns for safety and comfort. But should I restrict someone else's comfort due to my discomfort? It seems a bit selfish of me to say yes; but at the same time, I don't feel like my concerns for my own safety at possible abuse of such a law should be minimized either.
I'm in a bit of an intellectual debate with myself about this, so I have come up with my version of the best solution: Let's ban public restrooms and make everyone use unisex port-a-potties
Here is a thought...
If you can pee standing up - find a tree. If you pee sitting down - find a bush.
See how how simple that is... Let's deal with our pee-pee ourselves and let our government deal with the important stuff like jobs and nuclear destruction.
Do you really want your president to make the where we pee decision for us?
ps. If a pervert wants to take advantage of the national confusion - just cut off his wanker or sew-up her gift box and let the rest of us worry about what is really important in our life - like electing a self-serving politician like Clinton or a Neanderthal like Trump.
Indeed, this is an easy solution, if you're not in the middle of the city such as Orlando where there is not a tree, bush, or private area to be found. As I mentioned at the end of my post, port-a-potties are quite useful.
Also, for a pregnant lady such as myself, a tree or bush may not be available every twenty five seconds as it's typically needed, but that is a good point.
As your other forum post mentioned, yes this is quite trivial. I do find it interesting to think about and discuss, as it involves deeper fears, thoughts, and workings of the human mind that I find interesting.
It is trivial to me but I have friends who are trembling with rage and fear that a man might legally occupy the same room with them while they are peeing.
As I expressed in my post above, I too would be concerned about it, being a woman, therefore I share in this fear. However, I also know I can choose to not use a public restroom. No place is required to have them. Because of that reason (i.e. the lack of necessity of using or having a public restroom) I say it is trivial in relation to other subjects which involve necessity.
I am also a woman. Not sure if you knew that. ;-)
Yes, using a public restroom is optional but they sure come in handy. Squatting isn't as easy as it was when I was younger. Lol
Yes I thought you probably were, from your username And the kitty profile picture.
And I'm sure my thoughts on the priority will probably change once I hit nine months prego and can barely stand up much less run to a grove of trees.
If the person is making no effort to "pass" as a cisgender woman, then that's the proof they are not one. Those are the people who cannot use the Ladies' restroom. I didn't start using the Mens' restroom wearing a dress, I used it trying to look like a dude so I wouldn't get beat up or raped myself. It's a very scary situation to be in.
Students in school are required to take PE courses, and often are also required to dress and shower in sex-segregated locker rooms.
Here's a link to the lawsuit which was filed in Illinois by girls who are fighting back against the district which allowed a boy to have full access to the girls' facilities. http://www.adfmedia.org/files/SPPcomplaint.pdf
This goes beyond just the issue of public restrooms, so of course the approach would need to be different. This presents a situation of necessity (people being required to use certain facilities) and therefore a more specific concern (not to mention the addition of showering.)
I believe that 'good, solid ' psychological and spiritual help would go a long ways to solve most of the problems individuals have identifying with who they are naturally!
I am getting worried. My 2 year old nephew wants me to pee with him, (well into potty training), so we can pee two at a time. What do I do when I take him to the mall? Is there an Uncle/Nephew bathroom? Or should I be glancing around for a skirt at the urinal? How would I explain that to him? Should I get a skirt to wear at home so he doesn't get confused? Should I take him to the Ladies room and teach him to sit down to pee?
Lol, just teach him to pee. All that other stuff is nonsense. It's not that complicated. Just my opinion, of course.
Not understanding. If a transgender man is using the Mens' restroom, they are going to be looking like a man (or at least trying to "pass" as one).
"...as it involves deeper fears, thoughts, and workings of the human mind that I find interesting. "
Hi there, again.
As mentioned, thanks for participating, but if you really see this as a "deeper fears," or workings of the human mind issue, then I think you have drank the Kool-Ade!
This is a "let's change reality" issue. Let's define a new "normal." Forget about getting a job, or braces for the kids, or North Korean nukes crossing the Pacific - let me check Twitter to see what my president thinks is important. OMG! Sherry is kicking Ozzie out of the house.
I'm gotta call out of work because I just have to see what Entertainment Tonight has to say about Sherry's tragedy and who she's voting for.
But the Kool-aid was good!
Honestly, though, I do see your point. I just hesitate to determine what's important from a large perspective. To me, it may not seem important, but to others, it is. Does it concern me? Yep. Should it? I don't really know. Is it really as important as people make it out to be? Eh....in the end, it ends up being about people being afraid or concerned, so yeah I guess it's important. On a national scale? Eh...maybe not, because like I mentioned, using public restrooms isn't really necessary. There are (almost) always options. And if there aren't, I know personally I probably wouldn't be all that picky if I were desperate. On the other hand, from a practical point of view, it pales in comparison to the other issues which are absolutely necessary to fix, like you mentioned prior.
So I think it's important, but not on a "let's make this into a national civil war issue" kind of way. It would be good to address, because people have concerns about it, but I don't think it's up there with making sure I don't go bankrupt and homeless and without proper health insurance for my baby kind of thing.
I agree with you mostly GA. Except about the "Neanderthal" judgement of Trump, because I do believe that is rhetoric that is working for him...as tiring as that must be for those who tune in to it. Strategy!
While Killary tries to portray 'a lady'...heehee!
I could live with that! But, people with phobias might be troubled.
Then, there are other problems...
This guy is a woman because he says he is. Self identification is all that is required to be a woman. Transition is not required. There are no medical qualifications required.
Sweet Miss Danielle and men like him are part of the problem; another part of the problem is self identification being the only requirement.
Another part of the problem is that the issue goes well beyond people who "just need to pee." These "choose your own gender" laws typically also allow "women" like Danielle Muscato into gym locker rooms and showers, retail dressing rooms, shared hospital rooms, summer camp cabins, and even women's shelters.
I don't want to shower with this guy at the gym or share a hospital room with him.
Nope. No joke. Google him. He says he is a woman, therefore he is one, supposedly.
If the person is making no effort to "pass" as a cisgender woman, then that's the proof they are not one. Those are the people who cannot use the Ladies' restroom. I didn't start using the Mens' restroom looking like Alice from Alice in Wonderland, I used it trying to look like a dude so I wouldn't get beat up or raped myself.
Unfortunately, that is not what the law says. Bathroom laws state that the person only has to "identify" as the opposite sex, meaning, any person can make the claim. It doesn't matter who they are or what they look like. Transactivists consider it "transphobic" to require that people pass or even attempt to pass as the opposite sex. Passing or attempting to pass is not required by law in order to have unrestricted access to women's private facilities. Supposedly, Danielle Muscato is as much a woman as I am, or as any actual adult human female on the planet, and has every right to shower with me at the gym simply because he claims to feel like a woman on the inside. IMHO, that is taking rights away from women and girls. I have the right to bodily privacy at the gym. My daughter has the right to bodily privacy in the school locker room.
People are falling all over themselves to extend extra rights to these men, who already have full facilities available to them (men's facilities), while neglecting to protect the rights of women and girls.
I suspect the reason using the men's bathroom works out well for you is that you are a female in the men's room. Men are not intimidated or bothered by women in their bathrooms in the same way that women are intimidated or bothered by men in theirs.
+1 That is how sick the brainwashing has become.
I'm a 10 foot tall alien...and you better believe it and accept it or you are racist and I will sue you if you do not comply. You are smart!
Just wait, its going to get worse.
Item #4 @ http://maps.stanford.edu/ada/building-a … _ID=01-080
Stanford's present is the nation's future. And that's the way it is.
Probably take another generation though.
The govt. should not have a say in the matter. Common sense should.
Let common sense reign, please.
PS Its not a war on women, CO, its a war against the people of the united states.
Here's what Franklin Graham had to say yesterday, and I agree. I respect what he has to say.
I’m thankful to North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory & other state legislators for standing up to the bullying and intimidation of the Obama Administration over HB2, NC’s bathroom bill. Our president and his appointees aren’t supposed to be making laws and bypassing Congress. That’s dangerous. I agree with NC Lt. Governor Dan Forest who said yesterday that the Obama Administration is “obviously more concerned with its radical, leftist agenda than with the safety and security of our women and children.” This is far reaching—it impacts every state and every family in our nation, not just North Carolina. Let’s pray for Gov. McCrory and all those fighting this battle for what is right.
I get the feeling this is a big distraction and such a waste of time and money. The DOJ has big criminals getting away with murder while they look the other way. Obama is a lame duck president.
This entire issue is all about activist's "normalization " of the lesbian , gay , bi-sexual ,trans. culture into main stream America ! An agenda . Face it , if your children are forced to except this and all issues of the above into our culture , then so will all . By educational indoctrination , they will win .
The federal government has NO rights to dictate to the states rights , There is no constitutional amendments or rights towards transgenderisms, thus North Carolina has all legal right to ignore the supreme courts rulings and I hope they do ! Perversions like these are no reason to change the influence of natural laws to man's laws .
I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but consider the following excerpts:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"
All are citizens of the US, not just those that are not transgender.
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States"
No state may abridge the privileges of citizens. Not just citizens that are not transgender.
"<No state shall> deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Again, it applies to transgender people.
While government may attempt to circumvent natural laws (it never works), there are no natural laws to be considered here, unless one wishes to argue that genetics makes up the gender of a person. What you really mean is that there is no reason to change the influence of God's laws to man's laws: an obvious fallacy that has been challenged (always with God's law losing) many times.
Romans 1:24-32New International Version (NIV)
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
There aren't many parents of young children here apparently , If you have an eight year old child and are training them to be self sufficient in today's adult world , would YOU let them get into line with some hairy armed cross dressing unknown to use the rest room ?
I think not !
Sure I would. Every single person she goes into the bathroom with is an unknown. You're operating under the assumption that a transgendered person is just a mentally ill man in a skirt preying on women when in reality they just want to pee like the rest of us.
I'd be more worried about her spending time with someone involved in the Catholic Church but hey that's just me.
This biggest issue is FEAR. Fear of sexual predators, and robbers using this to their advantage. Everyman you see in a dress may not be transgender. I think they should create a third bathroom for alternates. If you choose to be seen different than the way god made you, in my eyes that makes you an alternate.
The photo is of a transgendered man. He has a vagina. You want to send him into the women's room. I say tbat causes WAY more problems than him using the men's room would.
As for showers/change rooms, I actually hate the idea of public showers and change rooms in general, regardless of if they're separated by sex. Especially when it comes to children/youth who are so vulnerable with their body image. The school I went to had all private changing/shower stalls so I'm honestly not terribly familiar with the concept but in my mind it's flawed if you're requiring kids/teens at school to be naked in front of their peers at all.
Aime, I feel for your friend, but I really do believe it is a different matter when a female identifies as a man as opposed to a male identifying as a woman. Males are not threatened by females. It is your friend's choice to put herself in the company of males while naked -- males who could easily overpower and harm your friend if they wanted to. Males do not fear your friend because females typically do not commit violent or sexual crimes against men.
Of course the opposite is true about males. They commit roughly 98-99% of sexual assaults against women. Keep in mind that a sexual assault can be voyeurism -- some sort of violent attack does not need to occur for a woman or girl to be victimized. This is why girls and women do not want to undress and shower with males in the room.
I believe a third set of facilities really is necessary. Transgender people typically reject them and say they're not good enough, that they want to be in with the sex they identify as. But unfortunately, trans people are not the same as the sex they wish to be. They need to accept that they are different and stop with the "transwomen are women" mantra because that statement is untrue. If they do not want to use the facilities for their actual sex, they need to accept a compromise rather than insist upon using facilities reserved for people of the opposite sex.
Schools providing private showers and changing rooms for everyone is not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. Large schools can have as many as 200-400 students who need to shower and dress in the locker room, and get to their next class within a 10-15 minute time period.
Then there are overnight school trips. One superintendent was in the news recently when he instructed teachers they were not to tell parents if a transgender student would be rooming overnight with students of the opposite sex -- so a teen boy could be bunking in a hotel room with teen girls, no adult chaperone, and the teen girls' parents are not to be told of this arrangement. I think just about anyone will agree this is a bad idea, on many levels.
But this is what bathroom laws say must happen. People go on and on about "just need to pee" but conveniently leave out all of the situations bathroom laws also force into play. Here's what happened in a girls' high school locker room when a boy was allowed in with the girls:
"The transgender student, only identified as “Student X” in the complaint, would allegedly dance to lewd music while in the locker room, including by “twerking, grinding, and lifting up his skirt to reveal his underwear” in front of high school girls.
"He is also accused of following two female students seeking privacy in a secondary locker room and disrobing in front of them.
"Student X also allegedly questioned one female student about her bra size and then asked her to “trade body parts” with him."
Obviously, the male student wanted to do much more than pee. This is yet another school district facing yet another lawsuit brought about by girls who do not want to undress or shower with males. They are becoming more and more common.
It is not specifically transgender males (transwomen) I have a problem with in women's facilities; it is ANY male, trans or not. "Student X" is a perfect illustration why.
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Mine :No different than when meeting males/females.
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