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Why should voters support a candidate that he/she does not agree with

  1. dianetrotter profile image83
    dianetrotterposted 5 months ago

    What would be the rational for voting for someone because of party affiliation?  Are strategic party moves detrimental to the democratic process?  Do we need political parties.

    1. Jackie Lynnley profile image75
      Jackie Lynnleyposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Now Diane, don't get me going here! Our two parties seem to be fighting to be only one and to me the party I use to affiliate with is the worst and selling out our country bringing in just anyone and everyone and giving them all they can so they can have their vote and control the world! It is happening and we will have a one world government because it is too far into the process to stop it I think.
      Power is what it is all about and we should never have drank the Kool Aid...

      1. dianetrotter profile image83
        dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Ah!  That's heavy!  I was thinking of one party but one world government!  I see that you study!

    2. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Given todays widespread media presence ,  we should probably evolve the two party system to  eliminate labels ,    the brilliance however of our founding fathers was that they saw  the constructive brilliance in divisional  politics.     The problem    though , is that getting people to think for themselves and  "do the homework " required for intelligently  moving our system forward isn't growing as fast as our media  coverage is !     

      Sophomoric  university system driven ,  Ideological party persuasion  voting  , peer pressure in  lesser matured  voters , That is where lack of intelligence will never effect progress.

      1. dianetrotter profile image83
        dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        That's why I decided to become a "no party affiliation."  I am not a robot and make analyses to come up with my own positions.

        1. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          Diane , unfortunately I believe , sometimes cynically  ,  that we are too easily persuadable by media and political pundits  , that there is a vial  and indecent "go to " game they all play with us .   They consider  us sheep and  all of us  are to bow to their supposed  intellectual directing .

          I too vote as my conscious  tells me , I split the ticket all the time and I hope that we all learn to  do our own homework yet  I find that people really more intelligent than I , fall for the P.C.. I have a curse to admit  , I am a media junkie.

          1. dianetrotter profile image83
            dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            Media junkie?  You too?  I try to balance listening to CNN, Fox, OAN, local news, and I devour news sites on the Internet.

            It is our civic responsibility to know who/what we are voting for and the impact on the economy, world and community relationships, and all of the things that inspire the person or idea to be presented for consideration.   

            It concerns me to hear some young people talk about voting.  The Bernie Movement appeals to them because they don't realize that nothing is free and what we will have to give up for what we think we want.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image22
              Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

              If we ignore the evil Feberal Governments they will go away.

              Although not until enough abuse has been done to public first and then a revolution has been  Then we the people can reset each our harmless destiny.

            2. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

              I hear the young people too, it is always the conservatives that believe that everybody is looking for a free lunch. I criticize the old for endless clinging to ideas and concepts that consistently fail to work.

              I am not so young and I see what the young see, a corporate and political system corrupt to the core that produced a Donald Trump as a credible candidate and Ms. Clinton as part of party machine from the Democrats.

              A society that is too stingy to invest in its people but can spend billions on aircraft that does not fly.

              So, it is a matter perpective, what is it that you value that is going to promote a successful American ecomony and social cohesion among us?

              1. dianetrotter profile image83
                dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                My problem is with the impracticality and improbability of free education.  There is no way to provide free college education.  The student may not pay for it but it will have to be paid for.  Salaries for educators and administrative staff alone must be paid.  Care and maintenance of the facility.  If students don't pay, then there is a huge tax bill.

                I remember when California Proposition 13 was passed.  Prior to that people had been losing their homes because of ridiculously high property tax bills.  The Proposition capped property tax increases to 2%.  I don't know about post secondary but public school class sizes grew, arts programs were eliminated completely, educators got out of teaching for higher salaries, and many dominoes fell.

                I'd like to see Bernie's plan to pay for free college.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

                  Dianne, the idea of a totally free college education may be fantasy. But working to reduce the cost of college for eligible students could be going in the right direction. If I can subsidize the 'big shot', I can help those that whose success is going to determine the viability of our economy into the future.

                  I was living in California when Prop 13 was passed (1978)? It was an anti-tax revolution at the time. California is expensive and that is the reason that I no longer live there.

                  I would like to see the plan, but making the financial/Wall Street money changers pay more toward that goal is no problem for me.

                  1. dianetrotter profile image83
                    dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                    There definitely needs to be ongoing analysis to determine more economic and efficient ways of doing things.  I have done systems evaluations and been told I did a great job; however, nothing changed!

      2. GA Anderson profile image86
        GA Andersonposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        "...Sophomoric  university system driven ,  Ideological party persuasion  voting  "

        But, but....

        You just said "it is cowardly not to vote ones ideological party..."

        Which is it?

        GA

        1. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          ..........It IS cowardly to not vote the party .........but stupid to not know the reason and the difference . Mainly that liberty= IS having less central government , not more .

    3. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
      wrenchBiscuitposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13075585.jpg

      I like Bernie Sanders. But even if the obvious voter fraud perpetrated by the Clinton campaign disqualified Hillary and allowed Bernie to challenge and beat Donald Trump, (which I am certain he would) Bernie is only one man against an enormous machine. In order to fix this we not only need to do away with political parties, we need to abolish government. Law and Order are not synonymous with government. On the contrary, government is synonymous with war and oppression. I challenge anyone who disagrees to name one major war that has not been prosecuted by a world government.

      Of course, in order to abolish government it would require a real revolution, which is defined as a violent overthrow of a government or system. Philosophy, morality, and peaceful protests aren't going to make a significant difference in the status quo. The ruling elite aren't going to give up power and control without a very ugly, and very bloody fight.

      The American people will have to decide if they are willing to fight and die for their freedom, or to continue to submit to the tyranny of an oligarchy masquerading as a democratic republic. But even a democracy is defined as a dictatorship of the majority. And so, a republic tainted by a democracy, as in "democratic republic", is also unacceptable. Unless these parties, and this corrupt government are abolished, the American people, as well as the entire world will never be free.

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Bernie?  Freedom?  Those two are incompatible - the only "freedom" Bernie offered was to forcibly take whatever he could from the people.  He even says so!

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
          wrenchBiscuitposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          Of course you are a master of hyperbole, and always quick to take a word, a phrase, or a concept out of context to bolster an argument, and so this is no surprise. Will you be voting for George Wallace again?

      2. dianetrotter profile image83
        dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Which country has the best government?

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
          wrenchBiscuitposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13075718.jpg

          None of the above.  Of course, the best government is no government. At least not as we currently define government.  What I mean is, the best government is a people who truly govern themselves, minus a privileged class of politicians whose primary purpose is to create the illusion of a democratic republic, when in reality the popular vote is nothing more than a placebo for the proletariat. The best government is a united people with solidarity of purpose who  abide by the just laws they have agreed upon themselves. Unlike the laws levied by this government that are used to extort money from the citizen in the form of taxes and fines, under threat of imprisonment. In a free society imprisonment is only reserved for real criminals: thieves, murderers, etc..

          The laws concerning DUI are the most recent examples of how the government has perverted the law for profit. Anyone who does just a little research will understand that the majority of fatal Motor Vehicle Collisions involve drivers who are stone cold sober! It is simply a fact. But the government, and all those riding the gravy train (judges,lawyers,breathalyzer companies, etc.) have created an entire industry around DUI. Groups like MADD have demonized drunk drivers and created the grand illusion that the people who cause the least amount of traffic fatalities are the bogeyman! The government has gotten so greedy that people don't even have to be drunk anymore. Now a person can qualify as DUI by having a certain blood alcohol level without being a danger to anyone. It has been estimated that drunk drivers cause 10% of all traffic fatalities. https://www.motorists.org/issues/dui/myths/ 

          Just one example of government corruption and extortion in a materialistic capitalist system. And it won't get any better through legislation because the legislators are also on the gravy train! This only further illustrates the unfortunate predicament the American people are in today.

          1. dianetrotter profile image83
            dianetrotterposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            Personal responsibility?  It would really be interesting to watch that work.  When I loved one dies, regardless of whether the driver was right or wrong, wants just and sometimes metes out justice. The common sense solution starts to hit snags because not all will be happy with the resolutions.

  2. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 5 months ago

    The problem with FREE anything from government , without major tax increases or huge spending cuts , ie. military , defense , space exploration ,S.S   retirement packages ,   IS THAT it would require major abuses to our constitutional rights . Again , l    High   taxes - I will never understand how we blame the party of  economic -responsible -  conservativism  for wanting LESS government ?

  3. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 5 months ago

    To suggest no government for any people would be best for all is shallow , un-intelligible , and speaks to only  the shallow shock value of insanity  .   Imagine a populace with no stoplights, no  justice system no  economic system.        The dark ages would love you Wrenchbisket .   Clans of  half dressed , zombie cave dwellers .    What kind of sophomoric  intelligence takes all we have  evolved to today and reverses it to a fig leaf dress and a  hardwood  club ?   

    Even todays human intelligence  would reduce itself to the level of  cannibalism without government. We can't all run around like natives on the prairie again raping , raiding , pillaging ,taking  another tribes  children and wives to repopulate our own .  Sometimes I wonder just how long intellectual thought would even last with the directing of political correctness ,  popular cult  opinion and  someone  standing over you with a bull whip.


    http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13075935.jpg

    1. Castlepaloma profile image22
      Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Wow
      Didn't know you can pile political BS that high.

      I give US politician top PHD in PILING it HIGHER & DEEPER.

      HAYYYY!!!!

    2. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
      wrenchBiscuitposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13076350.jpg

      You speak of the dark ages when I am the future. Mind control as practiced here in the U.S. is a subtle and insidious form of oppression that inhibits, or even destroys an individuals capacity for critical thinking, while cultivating blind obedience to authority. We can understand that this is not unlike the results of an abusive marital relationship. It is not uncommon for a woman who has been abused in a relationship for many years to defend the abuse and suggest that it is her fault when she gets beaten by her husband; that she should have had dinner prepared on time, she should not have talked to that stranger, or she should not have worn that particular dress. We can understand that such women are experiencing a form of "Stockholm Syndrome", and we can also understand that a majority of Americans who subscribe to, and defend an oppressive government, are also suffering from the same condition, which is the result of over 2 centuries of abuse and control.

      Your rant about cannibalism and no stop lights is quite humorous. Have you ever though about becoming a writer of fiction? The irony here is that the world becomes more civilized without government, not less. You are suggesting that without overlords to draw imaginary borders and divide the land into real estate, wage imperialist wars throughout the world, and extort money from the citizen in the form of taxes, that the modern world would fall apart and revert back to the stone age. If you can ever find the time I suggest that you educate yourself. Suggested reading: Henry David Thoreau, Emma Goldman,Errico Malatesta, Peter Alexeyevich Kropotkin, Karl Marx, W.E.B Dubois. If you get through all of that then you might understand how the American people have been suckered, exploited, murdered, used as pawns to commit genocide, and generally abused by a ruling elite for nearly 250 years. Mankind will either evolve,remain enslaved by world governments, or perish. I am a proponent of evolution.

      In the meantime, I have refrained from insulting you because of your IQ and lack of education. I suggest you refrain from insulting me for being intelligent. Since you are such a champion of the "Pilgrims Progress" here in the New World, perhaps you wouldn't mind going to Flint Michigan and having a drink of water, or going to Cincinnati and swimming in the Ohio River, or encouraging your wife, daughter, sister, or mother to go walking alone after midnight in any city or rural area. After all, in such a progressive, modern,and civilized society that is being controlled and monitored by a benevolent government, the water is surely safe for drinking and for recreation. And why should any woman fear sexual assault in such a civilized country?

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Wrench , every problem that you describe above is caused  by nanny state  liberal legislation ! 
        The only thing you missed was how  the apathy of the same leftist mentality caused  the inner city meltdowns  !    Why don't you google that up . The top twenty or so most violent cities in America and see who runs them and has , some  of them for a century !    One day your  higher intelligence  will open your closed mind.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
          wrenchBiscuitposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          Regardless, we are still talking about the same thing, and that is the corruption of government. The people of the United States do not represent themselves. They are represented by so-called representatives: senators, governors, and representatives who are apart and disconnected from those they were elected to serve. Many Americans find it convenient to simply elect someone else to mind the store. But now we see how the people of Flint Michigan are paying a high price for such a grand convenience. I guarantee that if the governor and his family lived in Flint that this tragedy would have never occurred. Even a dog will not soil it's own bed.

          It doesn't matter if we are talking liberal,conservative, Democrat,Republican,or Whig. No matter how you dress it up, evil always looks and smells the same, and it always delivers the same results: innocent people being dispossessed, marginalized, hurt and killed, while the rich continue to prosper. Government is inherently evil. It is no wonder that a career in government attracts criminals like Rick Snyder. Here is an excerpt from a letter Michael Moore sent to Snyder:


          FROM: Michael Moore
          TO: Michigan Governor Rick Snyder
          Dear Governor Snyder:

          Thanks to you, sir, and the premeditated actions of your administrators, you have effectively poisoned, not just some, but apparently ALL of the children in my hometown of Flint, Michigan.And for that, you have to go to jail. To poison all the children in an historic American city is no small feat. Even international terrorist organizations haven’t figured out yet how to do something on a magnitude like this.
          But you did. Your staff and others knew that the water in the Flint River was poison — but you decided that taking over the city and “cutting costs” to “balance the budget” was more important than the people’s health (not to mention their democratic rights to elect their own leaders). So you cut off the clean, fresh glacial lake water of Lake Huron that the citizens of Flint (including myself) had been drinking for decades and, instead, made them drink water from the industrial cesspool we call the Flint River — a body of “water” where toxins from a dozen General Motors and DuPont factories have been dumped for over a hundred years. And then you decided to put a chemical in this water to “clean” it — which only ended up stripping the lead off of Flint’s aging water pipes, placing that lead in the water and sending it straight into people’s taps.

          Your callous — and reckless (btw, “reckless” doesn’t get you a pass; a reckless driver who kills a child, still goes to jail) — decision to do this has now, as revealed by the city’s top medical facility, caused “irreversible brain damage” in Flint’s children, not to mention other bodily damage to all of Flint’s adults. Here’s how bad it is: Even GM won’t let the auto parts they use in building cars touch the Flint water because that water “corrodes” them . This is a company that won’t even fix an ignition switch after they’ve discovered it’s already killed dozens of people. THAT’s how bad the situation is. Even GM thinks you’re the devil ...

          http://michaelmoore.com/ArrestGovSnyder/

          1. mike102771 profile image84
            mike102771posted 5 months ago in reply to this

            "Many Americans find it convenient to simply elect someone else to mind the store."

            smile This best describes the trouble here in Akron (OH). for 30 years the EPA and many city engineers have told the city government the sewage needed an overhaul. Instead the people of the city just kept electing the same Mayor year after year. Now the bill that the bill is due the long time mayor quit and the bill is being foisted on everyone in the county. Every city, town and village connected to the system is having their bill tripled because Akron couldn't take care of their own house.  A million dollar problem became a billion dollar problem because of voter apathy.

  4. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 5 months ago

    By the way Wrench biscuit,   My I.Q  as compared to  even some higher ones  , understands a stagnant culture of  Native American  people who once given their own sovereign countries even  WITHIN  American borders  seems to have done so little for themselves even with the nurturing of a federal government agency and their own agency  hierarchy to be self governed  !   

    For one thing with some of the most precious natural resources at the immediate control  of  the that same Native American hierarchies fingertips  , Why then are your people starving , dying of drug and alcohol  poisonings ,  ignoring the opportunities of  special affirmative actions  in higher education ,  and generally living in squalor  ?  Or ,  Is it the fault of very rich gaming casinos  under the corruption and   control of your tribal leaders ?

    Maybe with every self governing tribe of native Americans inside  America having  as much and more freedoms from  local ,state or federal taxes and controls than the Average American Tax Payer or that of any other nation ,  for that matter ,  one of lower I.Q. is to wonder  just what opportunities were missed out on by your people ?    Maybe, in our next life ,  Columbus  can explain the wasted opportunities  of Native Americans . After all he never set foot on mainland America !   I  admit ,am of a lower I.Q , but what I am not though is supporter of professional victim ology and a squanderer of much opportunity .

  5. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 5 months ago

    Jesus Wrench , you had me there for a minute........... but then you brought up Michael  Moore  ? You know , the guy going through a divorce that's got to figure out how to divide an uneven number of houses between him and his ex ..................9 houses !

    One day you will learn to argue with me against hypocrisy..........and not by using it !

 
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