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UK decides to leave the EU

  1. rhamson profile image76
    rhamsonposted 5 months ago

    With a huge turnout and in the wake of a controversial killing of a MP the UK people voted to leave the EU. Many cited the control of its' borders as the main reason. A handful of other members are also considering a similar direction. Can the US learn anything from this or are we just terminally ruled by our leaders?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/25/world … .html?_r=0

    1. Credence2 profile image86
      Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

      I wish the British people all success in their choice as it is theirs to make.

      The BREXIT voters won a majority, lets see if Trump and rightwing proposals from same can win a majority here next fall?

      1. colorfulone profile image87
        colorfuloneposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        I really have to congratulate the people in the UK.  A populous uprising is not something that has historically happened there from what I have read.  We cannot have global corporations acting as governments, playing god and deciding our fates.  This victory is a reflection of what is happening in the US, and makes a Trump presidency more likely.  We are a sovereign nation!

        1. Judi Bee profile image86
          Judi Beeposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          We have had a popular uprising - our Civil War (mid seventeenth century).  King Charles I was executed and parliament put in control.  The monarchy was restored after people found that the alternative suited them even less.

          1. colorfulone profile image87
            colorfuloneposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            King Charles I, was executed! I don't remember having read that, so thank you for informing me.  I read a little about that and was surprised that he was beheaded.

          2. 61
            retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

            From Magna Carta to today, Britons enjoy a political history that is very different from that of the European continent. I suspect that the majority of natural born Britons don't really think of themselves as European. That is a good thing, as they are their own people and limited monarchy is very old in the British Isles. The idea of "divine right of kings" may have appealed to a few English kings, but I bet it hasn't appealed to any other Briton since the days of Alfred, the Great. The same cannot be said of France or Germany/Prussia/Holy Roman Empire.

            Where do you think all this American pigheadedness comes from? The English, Scots and Irish birthed us - intellectually, metaphorically, biologically and economically. Our Revolution was the culmination of 500 years of British political history - a history of independence and stubbornness.

            Thanks Great Britain!

    2. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
      Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      rhamson, I think you may have helped me as a Brit to understand something of American politics. When you equate our referendum vote with the question 'are we just terminally ruled by our leaders', I think inadvertently you have highlighted a difference between our two countries that I have never fully understood.

      It is fear about our National Government which I have never understood. You see, we have no fears whatsoever about rule by our Goverment. We've never regarded it as tyrannical and we don't have a problem with it. Indeed, the whole point of the Leave vote in this referendum was to give control back to our British Government (leaders)! Not to take it away. We feel that there was too much control in the hands of the European Union.

      So I wonder if maybe the reason why so many Americans fear their government is that you view your national federal government in much the same way as we view the European Parliament? And I wonder if maybe you regard your State Legislature in much the way we regard our national government?

      1. GA Anderson profile image86
        GA Andersonposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Your comparison of our (U.S.), government to the British perspective of the EU government may be a very apt one.

        As I tried to understand the basic mechanics of the Brexit arguments, it seemed to me to boil down to a sense of national sovereignty and border control for it, vs. economic arguments against it.

        I also think this may be analogous to many American's perspective of our national government having too much control, with our citizen's having too little.

        GA

      2. Credence2 profile image86
        Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Let me interject, if I may? In this country conservatives say that they loath the idea of Government. Yet, I do not know of any other  mechnism as to how we are to conduct the peoples' business.

        With conservatives, the national government is an adversary. The say they want it smaller and non-obstrusive, but we cannot go back to the days of knee britches and powdered wigs. This country has over 300 millions in population and to think that we can have a 'Daniel Boone' type of government today is insane.

        There are always issues about taxes and collectivism that they say have got out of hand, while letting the wealthy and powerful rape the worker and empty the treasury as the byproduct.

        If there is any problem with Government, it is the influence of corporation and private sector sources buying representatives and rigging the system to their advantage, at the expense of everyone else. But conservatives are slow to acknowledge the influence of these sources who they say are the 'job creators and the engine of the American economy. In other words, a sacred cow.

        Believe me, your concept of 'conservative' in Britain makes your counterparts here in the states look like mad dogs.

        That is just my opinion. I am sure that there will be plenty 'true believers' around that will rebut my statements. Interesting though, your right of center is equivalent to my left of center.

        Your questions and imput are most valuable coming from someone on the outside of the fray. I would like to get your take on some of these things more often.
        In regard to your recent choice and your future, all my hopes.....

      3. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        I think there is a difference in how the two countries carry on governing themselves. The UK has been around for a very long time as the rest of Europe. You have developed a rapport between your government serving you in a more socialist way and are inextricably tied to it for their support rather than it being tied to you for its' support. Here in the US our government through political wrangling has become a headdress for the lobbying and corporate ownership that ties our hands for the welfare of our people. Nothing gets done without the right people either getting influence or being paid. A capitalist heaven if you will. We the people only get what they deem necessary to continue down this same path.

        As a side note the US press is so concerned with carrying the news about the Brexit vote with a emphasis on the monetary impact it will have on the US and the rest of the world including the UK. As I understand it the vote was primarily to address the immigration policies now employed by the EU and how it directly relates to the UK. Here in the US we seem to be focused more on the economic impact and not so much on the so called xenophobic issues. Typical for the US.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          I get the impression that British leadership is more concerned about the country than about their personal power and money, relative to the "leadership" in the US.  I cannot imagine, for example, any sitting president taking the step that Cameron did.

          At the same time, though, I expected that the news in the US would center around the effect we might see here.  That seems normal and natural - what will the action do to us is of more concern than "Why did they do it?".  Not so sure that immigration isn't going to be big this election - I see Trump jumping all over the recent SCOTUS decision and Clintons statement that she not only supported Obama's illegal actions but would expand them.

          1. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            I agree that the news here in the US would be more directed at the impact on us but I am a bit tired about the US "What about me" syndrome that always follows some event. And this one was immediate.

        2. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
          Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          Hi. I'm sure there are significant differences in the relationship which exists (though I disagree with the inference of some of what you say and shy away from the term 'socialist' - accepting that Americans have a very different interpretation of that term than we do). I cannot comment on the aspects of American politics that you mention.

          As far as the referendum was concerned, I think it's fair to say that Remain were more concerned with the economy and international stability, whilst Brexit was more concerned with immigration and Sovereignty. Re-immigration, there are obviously extreme right-wingers who are xenophobic, but they are a tiny minority in the UK. And a larger number are concerned about Islamic immigration for the obvious cultural reasons or terrorist fears, though not to the extent of wanting to see it stopped entirely a la Donald Trump. But as they are non-EU countries, immigration from the Middle East is not really affected too much by membership of the EU anyway at this time.

          For the majority who supported Brexit immigration mattered more in respect of how it is controlled, rather than precise numbers. Under EU rules there is freedom of movement between member nations. A large number of EU members from East Europe - notably Poles, Rumanians and Bulgarians - have migrated in the hope of better living conditions and better paid jobs. At present, the British Government cannot refuse them entry (though they do have some control over benefits paid) and many worry about loss of jobs to migrants. So more than immigration, the Brexit result was associated with greater sovereignty and the right to determine such matters in our own country.

          1. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            I totally get what you are saying and there is a frame of mind among some Trump supporters with a xenophobic slant yet we are faced with a slightly different problem. While your membership in the EU predicates the acceptance of anybody within the EU we have no such agreement with other countries especially to our north and south. These other countries citizens cannot just legally move here yet there is a large group here that want to pay it no attention. I have to compete for jobs that people who are not US citizens hold. I am a tradesman and self employed. My competition hires illegal immigrants at slave wages and cheats their costs in unfair ways. I can't seem to do a damn thing about it as more legislation is in the works to make permanent the problem. The UK at least has a legal acceptance of the situation I seem to have no recourse with. Our corporations cry foul when we try to raise the wages to keep up with the standards while they reap the rewards of ever increasing profits. I can understand the economic empathy that Trump has raised yet the xenophobes are exasperating the issues.

    3. 61
      retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

      I think this is a tide that is sweeping most of the western industrial world. It isn't the first time, nor will it be the last. There is a rise in nationalist parties in Europe, the UK and the US. There are increasing numbers of people discontented with the direction the current "powers that be" are taking the West.

      The economic crisis persists despite promises that it would abate. The "PTB" have thrown the gates open to a flood of non-western humanity across much of Europe, to the consternation of its citizens - especially its women - and the frustration of countries like Hungary, Romania, Bulgari and Poland that want nothing to do with a flood of aliens - religious,language, culture, mores, education, etc...aliens.

      The surge of political "rebels" in the ranks of American candidates - typified but not isolated to Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul - suggests that there is an undercurrent of discontent, disenchantment - perhaps even rebellion - among the American electorate.

      I expect the same result as we saw with BREXIT. Hillary has strong allies among the ossified power structure and they are working hard to elect her and oppose Trump. I expect that will continue and they will claim success until the numbers come in on election night.

      To quote the great Yogi, "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."

      Just like BREXIT, the powers and their capital have all lined up with Hillary and that is no assurance of victory.


      PS, the killing of the MP was wrapped in lies aimed at discrediting Pro-BREXIT by the big money, big government, big media - or as we call their American counterpart - The Democrats.

      1. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        +1

      2. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
        Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Some of this I can agree with. Most of it I cannot. I look at things objectively from the UK - not with a conservative or liberal agenda or with a conspiracy agenda.

        It is true that increasing numbers of people are discontented with the current direction that the EU is taking towards ever closer integration and union. And as you say, there has been increased immigration from 'non-Western humanity' as you put it. However, that is NOT the primary reason for the Brexit vote, because the UK has always had the freedom to determine how many migrants from other parts of the world we accept. Brexit does not significantly alter that. Ironically as far as immigration is concerned, the primary reason for the Brexit vote is the large number of immigrants coming from the very countries you describe as being anti-immigration - Rumania, Bulgaria and Poland! It is unrestricted immigration from these countries - members of the EU - which was the primary reason for the Brexit vote.

        Far from being anti-'powers-that-be', Brexit voters are quite happy to see power in the hands of the Government - but they want it to be in the hands of our national Government - not the European Government.

        As far as the murder of Jo Cox MP is concerned, let me say this. I voted for Brexit. But I do not recognise all the stuff about big money, big government or big media trying to discredit Brexit with lies about her death. That is complete nonsense. All the national media coverage and political comment on the murder was very fair and impartial in its reporting of what happened.

        You should try not to see everything -  even reporting of a murder in the UK - from the point of view of pro Republican conservative - anti Democrat liberal bias.

        1. Credence2 profile image86
          Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

          What Retief does not get is that the ideological poles in Britain are different than what they are here. What passes for center right in Britain might well be the equivalent of center left here.

          It is most reasonable to want to be led by your own elected Government and not the EU. Our conservatives here loath the principal of 'government' at its very foundation. Quite a stark difference I think.

          1. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
            Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            Credence, thanks. I do wonder how much support a 'British Donald Trump' would get if he expressed similar sentiments and attitudes as your home-grown version does. Certainly not the 51.9% that Brexit got! smile I think he is variously regarded by the large majority in the UK as dangerous, outrageous or comically ridiculous. (But I suspect if he does win the Presidency, nobody will regard him as comical).

            1. 61
              retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

              Trump is a symptom and not the representative of conservatism. He is no more dangerous than the current occupant. It will be interesting to see how well UKIP does in the next election.

            2. Credence2 profile image86
              Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

              Yes, Trump is dangerous and I am sure that he would be ejected from political discourse among those with finer sensibilities. Yes, there is a substantial number here that find Trump dangerous, outrageous or comically ridiculous.

              Even though the American electorate is notoriously fickle, I doubt that he can win here.

          2. 61
            retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

            Another misconception by a liberal about what conservatism means. Read the Federalists if you want to know what conservatives think of government.

          3. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            "It is most reasonable to want to be led by your own elected Government and not the EU."

            Herein may be the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives in the US.  For conservatives don't want to be "led" by government lackeys or self serving politicians; they want to lead government into doing what the people require in order to live together and very little more.  Liberals, on the other hand, DO want to be led by government; led, cared for and supported.  They don't want the responsibility of making decisions (or to face the results of their bad decisions); they want government to make decisions FOR them.  IMO

            1. 61
              retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

              Happy Independence Day - +1

            2. Credence2 profile image86
              Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

              Misintepretation; I elect my representatives to lead. From the President on down. I was not implying that people are led around like cattle. Led in the sense of what that means in a representative democracy,

              Conservatives have the same concept of government that Patrick Henry had, this is the 21st century. But again, there is that difference in what you think people require and what I do.

              1. 61
                retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

                So the mere passage of time is sufficient to invalidate ideas rooted in clear notions about human nature. The idea that the state is automatically vested with superior moral judgement to the individual is, on the face it, absurd. The state is not populated with angels. Oops, sorry that sounds like one of those old dead guys.

                It is the conceit of the modern to believe that the present is automatically morally superior to all other times. The modern once was the starvation of the Kulaks and permitting independent farms was an antiquated notion.

                Right is timeless.

                A state that is empowered to take from the person who worked for property and award it to another who did absolutely nothing to earn it except hold the favor of the state, is not right and not new.

                However, it is the model state of the modern liberal l.

                1. Credence2 profile image86
                  Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

                  Nobody says anything about the State having some moral superiority. I elect them to govern, nothing more.

                  I remind conservatives that their perogatives end where my nose begins. We all have to learn to accomodate one another as anything else is disaster.

                  So, Retief, what is superior about the past? Let's go back a century or so, would you want to live there? The past is just that, unretrievable, while the future has yet to be attained to.

                  What do you think taxes do? You have to surrender some of 'your property' so that the trains run on time, that is appropriate while it is not new. That is an unrealistic scenario, 'this state is empowered' stuff.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                    Do liberals understand the difference between taxation for the good of the community and taxation to be given to specific individuals, for their good alone?  The old saw about housing for everyone, food for everyone, health care for everyone, phones for everyone etc. is good for the community is tired and threadworn as we "progress" ever further towards cradle to grave total care.

                  2. 61
                    retief2000posted 5 months ago in reply to this

                    What does a railroad schedule have to do with taxes, except in a  liberal paradise where government has taken control of the railroad. Railroad punctuality is often used to illustrate the success of Mussolini's Italy. Yet another paragon of the liberal state.

                    The purpose of taxation is to fulfill those powers specifically delineated in the Constitution, an inconvenient old document.

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                "But again, there is that difference in what you think people require and what I do."

                Therein lies the basic difference; liberals think everyone requires a nanny to guide them through life; conservatives find that they can, and should, do it themselves.  Responsibility, as I said.

                1. Credence2 profile image86
                  Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

                  You're operating on extremes on either pole and that is not accurate, the truth is generally not as drastic. The degree of so called independence conservatives say that they claim for themselves is not necessarily so much greater as to suggest liberals want a nanny state.

                  i.e. Just because I believe in the concept of a minimum wage does not imply that I support a nanny state,as most of the world's economies have the same provision. Unless, of course, you think the whole world is nanny and only conservatives have got the true nature of life figured out. Well, I doubt it.
                  The world is bigger than Idaho, enjoy your splendid isolation for as long as you can.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                    You're right of course, that extremist viewpoints are usually used, to make a point if nothing else.

                    But in this case it seems that the nanny state takes ever more control over providing for everyone.  It started with food stamps, then housing, then health care for kids and feeding them beyond food stamps.  Then comes free utilities and health care for everyone.

                    I saw a report the other day that the projected savings over original estimates for Obamacare are now enough to eliminate the deficit.  That's just the savings - the remaining cost is still enormous.  The nanny state at work, with the largest spending bill in our history being pure charity for those not responsible for their own care.  (Of course, those "savings" will be spent elsewhere - there will be no reduction in deficits.)

                    What's left?  Pure, expensive luxuries?  We already give everything needed to live a comfortable life - where will the socialists go next?

                    Here - this is extreme, but is also what we have become as a nation:

                    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid … mp;theater

  2. colorfulone profile image87
    colorfuloneposted 5 months ago

    This is great news. They were able to take their country back!

  3. IslandBites profile image85
    IslandBitesposted 5 months ago

    The British pound crashed to its lowest levels in 31 years as the country

    EU leaders call for UK to leave as soon as possible

    Divided Britain

    Scotland voted overwhelmingly in favor of staying in the EU, leading to calls for a second referendum on Scottish independence to allow Scots to "remain" even if the rest of the nation leaves.
    "Scotland is voting overwhelming to stay; if Scotland cannot be coerced into leaving the EU against its will, you cannot in all decency deny them a second referendum," Schama said.
    "If all the leavers are about self-government, and taking back control, why shouldn't Scotland take back control?"

    In Northern Ireland, which also voted to "remain" in the EU, the Brexit vote may also have a lasting impact, with some suggesting it may lead to Irish unification.

    yikes

    May be to soon to celebrate...

    1. colorfulone profile image87
      colorfuloneposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Hmm, I am glad that Cameron allowed a vote. I read that Italy, France and the Netherlands are demanding a vote on the EU and the euro now.  I think it would be totally unfair to deny the UK  a free trade deal after the people voted on Brexit.

    2. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
      Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      There may well be another referendum in Scotland, and they may choose independence this time, but we should be clear - it is not really about 'taking back control' unless you are talking about the level of control which existed 300 years in the past!

      Scotland voluntarily joined with England (albeit under economic pressure) in the Act of Union of 1707. Control was not lost to England, but shared, albeit with England always the dominant partner by virtue of its much greater population size. As a result of devolution to a local Scottish parliament, Scotland has actually had far more 'control' of its own affairs in the past couple of decades than it ever had in the previous couple of centuries. Indeed, in terms of political influence, Scotland would have far more 'control' as part of a United Kingdom outside of the EU, than it would as an independent nation within the EU!

      As for Northern Ireland, there is no prospect of Irish unification. The majority of people in Northern Ireland have always wanted to remain part of the United Kingdom, and that is more important to them than European Community membership.

    3. IzzyM profile image85
      IzzyMposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      What is there to celebrate? Little England proving how xenophobic it is? How 'frightened' the little woman is of "those foreigners" coming here, speaking our language, doing our jobs better than us"?
      I am mortified today to having been forced to remain in Britain. Thankfully my country voted against this madness.
      Scotland has already been cheated out of independence through a rigged referendum.
      History will repeat itself, regardless of who is in charge. Ignore MI5 at your peril. Their primary directive is to uphold the British State.
      Long live Britannia.

      1. Jean Bakula profile image97
        Jean Bakulaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        The way I understand it, it is a little bit about xenophobia. When Turkey was allowed into the European Union, Turkish people were coming to Britain in droves, and not assimilating. They were overtaking neighborhoods and living under the Turkish laws, even though they were in Britain. They shouldn't have been allowed to overtake areas, not allow police there, and insist the women wear the clothing they wore in Turkey.

        And Turkey isn't even in Europe anyway.

        I'd be happy if the far right Southern States of the U.S. succeeded, they want the U.S. to go backwards in time before the Civil War. And we have a large contingent of people who want to feel like they are living in the 1950's. You can't go backwards, and that's what Donald Trump's followers want to do, when they say, "Take back our country." It's not that simple.

        As the times change, people and their attitudes change. Most of these people are in their 70's and want to see the America they grew up in. It's gone, and people have to adapt to the changes or get out of the way of progress in human rights.

        1. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
          Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          Sorry Jean, there's seems to be some confusion here. Turkey is not a member of the European Union, and there has never been mass immigration into the UK by people from Turkey, introducing Turkish laws etc. That just has no basis in truth whatsoever I'm afraid. Some of course have concerns about Muslims from other Middle Eastern countries who have come to the UK, but that is nothing to do with Turkey joining the EU. They are not in the EU.

          The only issue over immigration from EU countries has really been associated with the movement of people coming from East European nations like Poland, Rumania and Bulgaria who wish to settle here due to higher living standards. There's no major cultural resentments associated with that, but some people worry about the fact that immigration levels from those countries cannot be restricted by our government.

          Turkey was raised in debate, because in the present climate of 'Islamophobia', there is a concern among some that Turkey may sooner rather than later become a member of the European Union. However, that is unlikely to happen in the very near future for a variety of reasons, including that country's recent relatively poor record on democracy.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image97
            Jean Bakulaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            Hi Greensleeves,
            I must have understood it wrong. I know Turkey, Albania, and other Muslim countries ARE trying to be part of the EU, going through what the process is, and that's one of the reasons that Britain wanted out. They want the benefits, but don't want to  be part of the culture, they want to bring their customs and everything else with them, just to another country.

            As you say, I'm sure this process will be very slow because of the human rights actions of some of these countries.

            1. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
              Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago in reply to this

              Hi Jean. Thanks for your reply. I had to make that reply because the point about Turkey was clearly in error.

              But in another comment of yours I notice you say: 'I am going to stop coming on these forums, everyone gets so rude. At least I don't hide behind a screen name'.

              I know you wern't talking about me, but leaving aside the bit about usernames smile I do agree about the rudeness of some Internet comments. Internet forums on controversial issues generally are pretty horrible. Too many people fail to understand that someone can genuinely and for the best of reasons hold different viewpoints. HubPages is tame by comparison with some Internet forums, but nonetheless it can be pretty nasty when people won't accept others' right to a sincerely held opinion. Hope you don't feel too discouraged. Alun

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                Since she was speaking to me on this one, I felt I should respond. I have no problem with 'sincerely held opinions' but when they are not based in fact and they disparage large segments of the population I think they should be addressed. Especially, when sharing an opinion which is not based in fact with someone in another nation.

        2. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          I believe the person you are conversing with is not an American. Do us all a favor and share facts not biased opinions about the rest of us.

          Thanks.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image97
            Jean Bakulaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            I wasn't trying to be biased. I have a friend who is a history and political buff, and he told me that countries not really considered to be in Europe were trying to get into the EU. I wrote based on my understanding of that.

            I knew the person I was conversing with was not American, but saw a correlation between countries wanting to leave the EU, and states which behave like they want to leave the U.S.

            I am going to stop coming on these forums, everyone gets so rude. At least I don't hide behind a screen name.

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 5 months ago in reply to this

              If asking you to share factual information and not biased opinions is rude, it is news to me. Living in the South, seeing no evidence of your comment; I'd say you are making things up.

              And I do chuckle when someone gets upset and then makes the 'hide behind a screen name' comment. How do I know you are the name you are posting under? It's no less a screen name than any other name. These comments usually come up when someone is clearly in the wrong and not big enough to admit it. Thus, they choose to attempt to change the subject.

              1. Jean Bakula profile image97
                Jean Bakulaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                What gives you the impression I am from the South? I live in New Jersey.
                I saw a generational correlation in the Brexit, where older people want things to stay the same, and younger ones are more comfortable with changes. That's normal in any country.

                There are many other countries besides Britain who are getting deluged with people from other countries, but they don't want to assimilate with the countries when they come to them, they expect to follow the rules and customs of their native countries. I saw on many news stations in the U.S. that Britain was getting fed up with that sort of thing.

                In the U.S. now, we have a large difference of opinion about immigration as well, and the Deep South is particularly against it, that's what I was getting at.

                I don't have to prove my identity to you. Many people come to forums to learn, I never professed to be an expert of European Politics as you apparently are.

                I write on several sites, have my own blog, and am paid to contribute to two sites. My area of expertise is not Europe, that's why I came on here, and just drew a comparison to the fact that the people who wanted the Brexit were older, like the ones in the U.S. who want their countries to be the same as they were when they were young.

                There's no need to be so condescending.

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                  I was not under the impression you lived in the South. I was under the impression you lived in the north and I assumed it was somewhere like Jersey.  And, I wasn't addressing anything you said about older or younger people. I simply commented on your statement about the south. Which was erroneous.



                  Again, my only comment to you was to ask you to present factual information about the southern portion of the United States. Not spread biased gossipy opinions not based in fact



                  Interesting. Because Arkansas, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas,  Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Wisconsin al have governors attempting to block it. Notice the inclusion of New Jersey in that list. Your state. Which is not in the Deep South.

                  But that wasn't the point of my comment and you are perfectly aware of that; thus you are attempting to divert the conversation. You said 'I'd be happy if the far right Southern States of the U.S. succeeded, they want the U.S. to go backwards in time before the Civil War. '

                  You being happy to see the south succeed is your own business. Saying the south wants to go backward is a falsehood, made up by you. I simply asked you not to spread false information based on your personal bias.  I don''t think that was too much to ask.



                  LOL. Again an attempt to divert from the truth. No one asked you to prove your identity. Nor did I claim to be an expert on European Politics. I simply asked you to not share false information about sections of America. Unless you are not aware that America is not a part of Europe your statement makes little sense.



                  I don't really care about that. Just don't make up false and negative information about other parts of this country, attempt to pass it off as truth, and I'll be happy to not reply to your posts.



                  I can truthfully say the same to you.

                  1. Jean Bakula profile image97
                    Jean Bakulaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

                    Saying the Eastern Deeper Southern states don't want time to go backwards is not a falsehood. Presidents Lincoln and Johnson both passed Civil Rights legislation, Lincoln when what was the Democratic Party now was Republican, around 1865, and Johnson, during his presidency, passed a Civil Rights Act in 1965.. It made no difference for years, black people just got terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan and other people.  Many of those rights are still being squashed, people of color still have problems voting, for instance. I'm not saying things like this don't happen in the North, but it's more veiled. They are all states with Republican Governors. More of them are in the South of the U.S.


                    It is still my understanding that Turkey, Albania, and several other countries are trying to become  members of the European Union. I have heard on the news and read that Britain is concerned that going through these countries may become a route many terrorists may take to get to European countries in the first place. That's why I brought up Turkey.

                    Can we please end this now? I made no attempt to divert anything, you keep attacking me for so many things I can't keep up.

        3. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          How shallow !  Why don't you just say racism ,bigotry of old age ,ignorance and a clinging to bibles and guns is why people want control of their future and country  .     Why a people want there borders back .  Why globalism in politics IS the only good answer .

          Remember the old saying , "Good fences make good neighbors"?    THAT is what everyone else seems to understand[ the majority ] .   Not many of you have mentioned what it costs financially  for the U.K.  to belong ,   and how little they get back .

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

            New world order aim is to put power into the hands of the few,. Then divide and conquer us into slavery. Since slavery is greater than any other time in history, they doing a good of it.

  4. Castlepaloma profile image23
    Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago

    Good for UK the euro is in danger with the US dollar in this New World Order Scam.

  5. jacharless profile image82
    jacharlessposted 5 months ago

    It is awesome and inspiring!

    Although living across the Pond, am thrilled my fellow Britons won a massive victory against the establishment. Sure, the market dropped. Certainly the GBP dropped as well. This was expected. The FTSE { Footsie } has nearly recovered completely in a single days trading, while the GBP/EUR is climbing and will probably level off at about 1.40. The real results will be seen, economically, on how its fairs against the USD. If it climbs back to 1.48 -or higher- all should be well and the BOE will not need to inject the already prepared stimulus of 350B.

    What intrigues most is the civility and preparedness on both sides of this vote.

    And yes, another 6 member states have filed formal Referendums in the wake of #Brexit. This is only the beginning. The EU is an old post-war idea. A "United States of Europe" if you will. It worked for a while, because it was necessary, but has since run its course. Same goes for NATO. Now Britain can once more be great. The "California" of Europe, which it essentially is already. This opens the door wide for new relations with the BRICS, EEU, etc. A new frontier has been born.

    Today's events prove beyond a doubt what people can achieve if they truly want it. Here in the States it is more apathetic -if not pathetic- than proactive. A lot of noise but when it comes down to it less than 20% of the current 350M people voted for their ruler(s). What we're stuck with is a media tycoon/fanatic and a neocon war hawk. If the American people really want change now's the time to prove it and follow in the footsteps Britain, Iceland, etc.

    James

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Good that you notice.

    2. Don W profile image84
      Don Wposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      "Although living across the Pond, am thrilled my fellow Britons won a massive victory against the establishment."

      In my opinion, they haven't won a victory against the establishment. They have won a victory for one part of the establishment over another. That's all. The establishment is still firmly in control.

      I think the concerns of the people over immigration and other issues were used by opportunists who would likely never have gotten close to the reins of power otherwise. If that sounds familiar it's because it's exactly the play Trump is trying to make. Sad to say, ordinary British people (the English and Welsh apparently, not the canny Scots and Northern Irish) have been hoodwinked. They're the ones who will likely suffer the economic fallout, however long it lasts.

      Are any of the Brexit leaders from working class backgrounds? Is anyone who is likely to replace Cameron from a working class background? I'm guessing they mostly come from upper-class backgrounds. Taking control from one group of Eton and Harrow chums, and giving it to another group of Eton and Harrow chums, is not taking back control. It's just a changing of the guard. It's as bad as wanting the head of an international conglomerate to be president because you think he'll remove corporatism from politics. I take it back. It's not that bad at all.

      "What intrigues most is the civility and preparedness on both sides of this vote. "

      An MP was murdered. The person charged with her murder stated his name in court as "death to traitors, freedom for Britain". Doesn't sound very civil to me. Sounds like it was poisonous and divisive. A cautionary tale if ever there was one.

      1. jacharless profile image82
        jacharlessposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        To be clear, the establishment I spoke of is the European Union - namely Germany and her henchman-influencer: America. Second, I understand an MP was assassinated, yet in spite of it Britons remained typically rational and calm, in both the Remain and Leave camps- given the sheer volume of citizens participating. Compare it to the meager US primary election turnout and events to see the amazing differences. Third, currently this event has nothing to do with the overall leadership, although that will be happening very soon, as the transition unfolds. At this very moment England has more to gain and in a stronger place, regardless of which party emerges to lead the country -and perhaps the world- into the next century. Lastly, the British economy is actually very strong as seen by its effect against the so-called US-led global economy -in all sectors- and further witnessed by her rapid and near complete rebound, in practically the same day without the 300B stand-by injection from the BOE. They knew this was coming and, unlike the American government in '08, took every precaution to avert disaster.

        As for the Scotland and Ireland, only time will tell. Right now they are flustered and feathers are flying everywhere. I think once calm settles in and the Exit Deal solidifies their positions will be much different, especially in light of yet another half-dozen countries preparing their exit strategies.

        The only two resistant this event are Germany and America. Interestingly, it was because of these two countries the EU formed to begin with and why the world has been in chaos since.

        Pax Britannica was not so long ago...

      2. theraggededge profile image93
        theraggededgeposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        The man is mentally ill.

        1. Don W profile image84
          Don Wposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          All the more reason to avoid the paranoid, xenophobic, nationalist tone the debate took, which was not helpful to anyone, least of all people experiencing certain types of mental health issue.

  6. colorfulone profile image87
    colorfuloneposted 5 months ago

    David Cameron is going to step down after the vote to leave Brexit won. 
    Interesting!

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      That is good news too.

      1. colorfulone profile image87
        colorfuloneposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Globalist David Cameron has shown that he prefers low level politics in my honest opinion.

  7. colorfulone profile image87
    colorfuloneposted 5 months ago

    http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13074497.jpg

    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Maybe if he is Superman.

      1. colorfulone profile image87
        colorfuloneposted 5 months ago in reply to this

        Unity is the best foundation we can have on fair trade deals with the UK. 
        ADDED:
        Obama thinks they can go to the end of the line, but he is pushing TPP.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 months ago in reply to this

          Hi folks

          This BREXIT is  the greater news since Obama declared gay marrage legal. Obama will be best known for this and being half black.

          This the best thing for the power of the people and the planet vs Global Tyranny. Or course Central banking will attack them with a great depression . It going to happen with or without these Global corporatism. It's better to reset our future now. There is still world hope yet.

  8. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
    Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago

    Thank you Credence for the vote of confidence! I have just written a hub on the subject. I'll just write a more detailed post about that. smile

    1. Credence2 profile image86
      Credence2posted 5 months ago in reply to this

      Let me know when that is available, please.. Thanks

  9. Greensleeves Hubs profile image96
    Greensleeves Hubsposted 5 months ago

    Hi everyone. In the light of all the correspondence on this subject, I felt I should write a hub all about the Brexit vote, why it was taken, and its implications for the future.

    I have included my personal opinion. However, I have made the bulk of the article as objective and neutral as possible, in order to provide a summary of the arguments on both sides and why it ended in a referendum and a Brexit vote. I wrote the article firstly so that those in other countries, who are not aware of all the issues, can understand them better, and secondly because since the vote there has been an atmosphere of divisiveness and panic in the UK.

    Many corresponding here of course are American. I do not cover any analogies between Brexit and American politics in my article, and I'm not sure any should be drawn, but you can judge for yourself smile

    The hub of course can be accessed from my profile page - it's called:

    'The Exit of the United Kingdom from the European Union'

 
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