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Trump's Taxes Show He Is the Rich Version of a Welfare Queen

  1. My Esoteric profile image88
    My Esotericposted 2 months ago

    The N.Y. Times revealed Trump lost almost $1B and therefore allegedly legally avoided taxes for an astounding number of years.  (He has since avoided paying taxes after that as well.)

    The presumption is that Trump's accountant properly used all available tax laws to avoid taxes, in spite of the Alternative Minimum Tax that is supposed to guarantee the wealthy will pay SOME taxes. (The ATM was initially enacted to prevent EXACTLY this type of legal way of avoiding taxes.)  This means, of course, Trump did nothing wrong or even unethical; in fact, he is exactly like, even one of, the famous 47% who didn't pay taxes that the Right makes so much fun of and call terrible names.

    I assert that the special laws for the rich to allow them not to pay taxes is a form of welfare, since he didn't earn it, he was just given it.

    So, why doesn't that make him one of the biggest Welfare Queens of all time?

    Why are Trump's followers on the Right going to vote for someone who refuses to pay taxes?

    1. PrettyPanther profile image86
      PrettyPantherposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      I know. He's such an entitled leech. I thought conservatives despise entitled leeches.

      1. IslandBites profile image83
        IslandBitesposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        But, you know... He's gonna fix it now. lol

        1. PrettyPanther profile image86
          PrettyPantherposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Yes, because his whole life he has demonstrated compassion and selflessness, and deep concern for the poor and middle class. big_smile

    2. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

      After such losses, how does manage to keep that private jet?  I should be so misfortunate...

    3. ahorseback profile image47
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Let's face it you wrote this "before " you saw the Clintons taxes?     Before you understood the Clinton Foundation tax loops?   Before you ever filed a long form tax standard?   Before you ever invested in real estate ?   
      Look up how the Hilary Campaign  donated to the Clinton foundation !

      How would you explain that donation ?
      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13220962_f1024.jpg

    4. JayeWisdom profile image93
      JayeWisdomposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Trump also used multiple business bankruptcies as a routine "business strategy," not caring how he wreaked havoc on his suppliers (including small business owners) as long as he protected himself.  And there was at least one property in NY that he acquired to renovate by using government incentives or subsidies.

      When people refer to him as a great businessman, I laugh. Even his ghostwriter for "The Art of the Deal" calls him crazy and says his bragging is not truth.  Here's another good article about "The Donald" and his "deals"--https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-01-27/donald-trump-s-track-record-on-deals

      Considering that he started his career with a million-dollar handout from his father (back when a million was a lot more than it is today) and later inherited more, used numerous shady business practices (acting more like a con man than an astute business manager), was an arrogant jerk on that ridiculous "reality" TV show, and is currently being sued--only one of many lawsuits against Trump--for his obviously fraudulent Trump "University," I certainly don't see him as having the ability to do anything positive for the U.S. Quite the contrary. Listening to him talk in generalities and never espousing any type of feasible plan, it's obvious he is not presidential in ability or manner. If elected, he would be impeached within the first year because he can't keep his mouth shut or stop insulting people. That wouldn't go over well with leaders of other nations, would it?

      I think Trump's narcissistic ego has fed off the adulation of his followers (even as he insulted their intelligence), but I also believe he only wished to promote the Trump brand. He actually began making noises about running for president years ago. The campaign sort of snowballed above his expectations, and--again--his ego wouldn't let him back down. He would be a disaster in the White House. Knowing his background with the Clintons, it is tempting to believe the theory that he's merely doing a bait-and-switch gig for Clinton.  If so, he will self-destruct before the general election. If his massive ego won't let him go through with that, he will undoubtedly regret it if elected and being forced to show the world that "the emperor has no clothes." (And that's not even considering Hillary's wrath, with the Clinton Mafia behind her.)

      Unfortunately, Hillary Clinton is corrupt, untrustworthy, driven by greed, dangerous to anyone who defies her, and wants to start World War III by attacking Assad's government forces in Syria. Just what we need--Putin training warheads on the U.S. due to Hillary wanting more war "business opportunities."

      Well, I didn't mean to get carried away, but of course I did! As for me, I've turned my back on the corrupt "establishment" Democratic Party that is wholly corporate-owned. Now in my seventies, I will vote for Jill Stein-- the only ethical presidential candidate with a progressive platform. If she doesn't win, I'm going to beg Justin Trudeau to ple-a-s-e make it easier for non-wealthy retirees to immigrate to Canada!

    5. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      How many people do YOU know that have zero or negative earnings yet still pay income taxes?  When you don't earn anything, the taxes on those (nonexistent) taxes is zero.

      If you don't like the loopholes, tell your senators.  Who will make more loopholes, because your opinion doesn't matter next to their handlers.  Which in turn is why we need Trump in there instead of just another money happy politician.

      1. My Esoteric profile image88
        My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        And why has Trump have zero or negative earnings almost every year since 1995 and many be earlier.  His vaunted  casino operations lost money EVERY year, some say.  Some business genius he is.

        1. GA Anderson profile image87
          GA Andersonposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Do you know that "...Trump have zero or negative earnings almost every year since 1995 and many be earlier. ?" All that I have read paint those recent claims to be presumptions and possibilities - not proven fact.

          It appears that this all started with one year's, 1995, tax documents of a big loss. That was spun with tax accountant's presumptuous extrapolations into "he hasn't paid any Federal income tax for 18 years!"

          ... at least that's the way I heard it. What makes you so sure he hasn't paid?

          GA

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Eric Trump told CNN that his Dad pays enormous taxes every year, including federal tax, and that he sees his Dad's taxes.  Trump said he will release his taxes (against his attorney's advice), when Hillary Clinton releases the 33,000 emails she deleted (and bleached).  Its kind of a chess game those two are playing, definitely its a war game. 

            It is unfair that small businesses get hit the hardest in taxes, and many are forced out of business. The middle class is shrinking. Workers pay too much tax.  We need tax reform...that's the real issue...not Trump's legal taxes. I looked at each of the candidate's Tax Plans and thought about their impacts.

            I'm much more curious as to who Trump or Clinton would appoint as Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense...

            http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13223198.png

            1. My Esoteric profile image88
              My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

              Then Erick is probably lying like his Dad.  Did Trump pay SSN and Medicare, no doubt; but all indications is he pays no federal or state income taxes. 

              Because Trump lies SO MUCH, I can't believe a thing he says without the documents to back it up.

              You know as well as I do that saying " he will release his taxes when Hillary Clinton releases the 33,000 emails she deleted (and bleached)" is a very stupid thing to say implying the listeners are dumb.  IF the emails are DELETED, how can HRC release them; they don't exist.  So that was just another way of Trump saying he is too scared to release his tax returns for public scrutiny (to make sure we aren't electing a Putin operative, lol)

              Do we need tax reform?  Yes, badly.

              Small businesses don't pay anything more than their personal income tax rate, only corporations pay a separate rate, which averages, btw, about 15% effective rate, not the 34% top rate.

              Since the vast majority of non-corporate business owners net less than $250,000/yr, they (me) do not even pay the highest personal rate, although they clearly pay more than Trump.

              Taxes do not force businesses to close, nor do excessive regulations (I find the regulation of my business non-onerous) except for those who pollute a lot.

              Absotutely right about the Sec Def and Sec State.

              1. colorfulone profile image86
                colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                We are in the greatest speculation time in all of history in the USA.

                I believe Trump is being honest, I truly do.  All we have is speculation from the opposition and I'm not falling for it.

                Absolutely right about the Sec Def and Sec State.

                Yeppers! 

                Added:  Apple biggest tax avoider in US stashing $215bn offshore
                https://www.rt.com/business/361668-appl … ce-report/

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13223305.png
                Notice ($ millions) on the chart.

                Some are multinational corporations that donated to Hillary Clinton.

                1. My Esoteric profile image88
                  My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  How do you reconcile "I believe Trump is being honest, I truly do" with the established fact that at least 70% of statements made by Trump are Demonstrably Pants-on-Fire False, False, or Mostly False; and I am not even counting the True, but Misleading.  Hillary is the reverse of that.

                  e.g., a summary of what can be found on-line- http://hubpages.com/politics/American-P … agerations

                  As to your charts, which I agree is a real problem, here are some facts about attempts to fix this:

                  - During the 2012 election season, President Obama promised to end tax deductions for companies that ship jobs overseas.  Obama took the first step in addressing this promise with his budget proposal for fiscal year 2014.  Mirroring Obama's commitment, the Democratic-controlled Senate included a similar promise to close "international tax loopholes and other incentives that move American jobs overseas” in its 2014 budget. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives' budget had different particulars, but it also included provisions for international tax reform. To resolve the differences, a budget conference was needed.  RESULT:  Nothing happened due to gridlock (I would say from social programs the GOP want and Ds reject as well as conservative rejection of compromise as a matter of principle -- You would probably say the opposite.)

                  - There have been similar attempts earlier from Both Parties but fell to gridlock as well.

                  As to donations, of course they did; many companies like to donate to charitable foundations (but not directly to Hillary Clinton).

              2. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                " but all indications is he pays no federal or state income taxes.  "

                What indication is that?  That you haven't a clue but like the idea so will promote it?

        2. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Because you can carry business losses over the subsequent years if there isn't enough income to cover them.  If you don't like the law, get it changed but that he followed it seems insufficient reason to vilify him.

    6. Don W profile image83
      Don Wposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

      Why people believe Trump is on the side of ordinary people is a mystery to me. As a CEO he's sent manufacturing jobs abroad, avoided paying tax, and is currently involved in litigation for conning his customers. Yet his supporters act as if he is a hero of the people. I really don't get that.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

        "As a CEO he's sent manufacturing jobs abroad"

        As a casino operator and real estate mogul, I have to wonder just what manufacturing jobs you think he has sent abroad?  Where are these manufacturing plants belonging to Trump but located overseas?

        "avoided paying tax"

        How many large businesses can you point to that do NOT have many tax lawyers on board, all doing their best to pay only the taxes required by law and no more?  For that matter, how many individual citizens do you know that figure their tax bill to the best of their ability and then throw in another $1,000 or so just to help out?

        "and is currently involved in litigation for conning his customers."

        And finally, how many big corporations do you know that aren't involved in litigation at any given time?  We've become a nation of litigants, very often because we made bad choices and want someone else to pick up the cost.

        1. Don W profile image83
          Don Wposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

          Trump outsourced the manufacture of various products to at least 12 different countries, including China, the Netherlands, Mexico, India, Turkey, Slovenia, Honduras, Germany, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam and South Korea(1)(2)(3).

          The fact that Trump is not the only CEO who can get away with not paying tax, doesn't make it okay. And how does not paying any tax make Trump on the side of ordinary working people?

          Trump is not just involved in litigation, he is being sued for fraud. The case has not been decided, but an indictment for fraud from the NY Attorney General's Office, at the very least, raises doubt about whether Trump acted in the interests of his customers, most of whom were ordinary working people. And yes several other Corporations have been involved in litigation for fraud or similar. Bank of America, J.P. Morgan, Citigroup, Wells Fargo to name but a few. All those Corporations acted against the interests of their customers, but none of their CEOs are currently running for President. If they were, and people acted like they were for working people, that would be a mystery to me too.

          As it is, the fact people believe Trump is on the side of ordinary people, is something I don't understand.

          (1) http://abcnews.go.com/Business/donald-t … d=31826791
          (2) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac … lete-list/
          (3) http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/26/polit … eign-made/

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

            I see.  The claim, then, is that because you purchase the ties Donald Trump imports means that he, personally, "outsourced" those jobs to China.  I trust that you are able to recognize just how silly that claim is - if you don't want to buy imported goods, don't buy them but don't blame the importer for the loss of jobs. 

            If I thought you would read and think about it, I would copy and paste the post you are replying to, for blaming Trump for following tax laws is foolish indeed.

            No, it isn't "several" corporations that have been involved in litigation: it is every single large corporation in the country.  Whether it is for fraud, employee discrimination, poisoning the water or something else makes zero difference that I can see - the fact is that they have deep pockets and people will sue in the hopes of getting something whether they deserve it or not.

            But I asked another hubber what crimes Trump has been convicted of or pled guilty to and got zero answer.  Do you have a giant list of convictions you'd like to present, or do you also just automatically guilty of every claim made against him because you don't like the man?

            1. My Esoteric profile image88
              My Esotericposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

              I agree that Trump following tax laws, to the degree he did it legally, is perfectly fine.  What is NOT fine is the hypocrisy in doing it while at the same time castigating others (the Rs 47% who they claim pay no taxes) for doing the same thing on their taxes.  You also support, apparently, him getting a form of welfare (being given something not earned) that you were once eligible for,  but not since Reagan; its called income averaging which is what net operating loss effective is. 

              Because my income went up and down years ago, I used income averaging on a personal level to spread my taxes over time.  With Reagan I lost that ability but Trump didn't ... Why?

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                Welfare: receipt of unearned products or money - charity.

                Taking less than past years is not welfare.  It's always interesting to see a reduction in the taking by government considered to be receiving by the taxpayer.  Makes a great insinuation, but the lie is really easy to spot (if one cares too, anyway).

                Gotta like the little add on of "to the degree he did it legally" - nice insinuation that there was illegal activity there, and all without any factual basis at all.

                The Rs don't claim 47% pay no taxes, they claim that about 47% of the population pay no federal income taxes, which is quite true.

                But it's interesting that you use tax loopholes to benefit the rich (you didn't use averaging to spread your taxes - you used it to reduce your tax bill just as Trump did), but hate that Trump does the same.  How does that work, again?

                (Income averaging did not die completely - farmers, commercial fishermen and apparently real estate corporations can still use it.)

                1. My Esoteric profile image88
                  My Esotericposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  But THAT wasn't what Romney said is it?  He didn't qualify it by saying federal income taxes, he simply said taxes.  And given the Right-wing mindset, I don't know for sure he meant just federal (and state) income taxes. 

                  Please reread what I wrote.  I don't fault Trump for using income averaging, it is legal for him.  It is NOT, however, for you and me unless we own a business.  My POINT is, why the difference, it didn't USE TO BE that way.  Why are only business people getting the tax welfare instead of you.

            2. Don W profile image83
              Don Wposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

              Oh I'm not making any claims, just asking a simple question.

              Yes, Trump imports ties etc. from China instead of buying them from US manufactures, because it means more profit for his corporation. Does that suggest he is on the side of ordinary working Americans?

              Yes, many multi-national corporations have been found guilty, or sued, for defrauding customers. Trump is CEO of one of those corporations. Whether he is liable or not remains to be seen, but in what way does being indicted for defrauding people indicate that Trump is on the side of ordinary working people?

              Yes, corporate interests have managed to ensure tax laws favor the very wealthy, including Trump, while middle and low income earners struggle. In what way does that suggest Trump is on the same side as ordinary working people?

              In case you're still not sure, I'm asking why Trump supporters believe he is on the side of ordinary working people? Because it's a mystery to me. What has he actually done to suggest that? I'll take anything at all, from his business affairs, or personal life. Just name something (anything) Trump has done at any point in his life that suggests he is on the same side as ordinary working people.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                "Oh I'm not making any claims, just asking a simple question."

                LOL  Yet your statement is very clear that Trump himself "outsourced" his (nonexistent) manufacturing jobs:

                "Trump outsourced the manufacture of various products to at least 12 different countries, including China, the Netherlands, Mexico, India, Turkey, Slovenia, Honduras, Germany, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Vietnam and South Korea(1)(2)(3)."

                Not sure what makes you think I feel Trump is on the side of ordinary people, for I don't.  He is much closer, yes, and understands much better the man in the street than Clinton ever will, but that doesn't mean he is on any side but his own.  Clinton is of the aristocracy, the ruling elite that controls the world and has absolutely zero connection to the citizenry.  Trump, on the other hand, hires those people, talks to them and walks among them. He uses the laws Clinton's ilk creates work to his advantage, but does not make those laws.  Clinton ignores the laws as not applying to her exalted station in life and does whatever she pleases.  I see a huge difference whether you do or not.

                1. colorfulone profile image86
                  colorfuloneposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  I can see as plain as day. 

                  "Normalcy bias - dumbed unto death" ~ Steve Quayle

                2. My Esoteric profile image88
                  My Esotericposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  You said "He is much closer, yes, and understands much better the man in the street than Clinton ever will, but that doesn't mean he is on any side but his own.  "

                  How can that POSSIBLY be true.  Trump has spent his whole adult life screwing just about anybody he can to make a dollar while Clinton has spent her whole adult life trying to improve conditions for normal Americans (although I suspect you don't believe one historical, recorded word about her that doesn't denigrate her.)

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                    Except that Clinton hasn't spent even a minute trying to improve conditions for normal Americans.  She has spent her whole adult life trying to screw normal Americans and increase her political power base without regard to who she hurts or what the long term consequences of her actions will be.  That she ascribes to the liberal philosophy of wealth redistribution, locking the peasants into governmental slavery and letting future generations pay for our excesses doesn't help at all.

                3. Don W profile image83
                  Don Wposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  So for you, although Trump is not on anyone's side but his own, he is closer to ordinary people than Clinton because he is not part of the "aristocracy" or "ruling elite". And you believe he is not part of the ruling elite because he not only "hires [ordinary people]", but also "walks among them, talks to them". Like Jesus! - just kidding.

                  Trump does hire ordinary people . . . but he also fires them for wanting to be part of a union(1), and refuses to negotiate contracts with legally organized groups of workers(2). So is firing people who organize unions part of the "connection to the citizenry" you believe he has?

                  Outside of campaign photo ops, when does Trump walk and talk with ordinary people? Do you mean on the way to his private Boeing 757, or helicopter, or one of his cars, or his 24-karat gold motorcycle(3)? In what way does travelling in your own private jet give you a "connection to the citizenry"?

                  You are right, Trump doesn't make laws . . . . but in 1998 alone he spent $290,000 ($428,000 in today's money) lobbying (Democratic and Republican) politicians who do make the law(5). In what way does spending hundreds of thousands of dollars influencing politicians, give someone a "connection to the citizenry"? When was the last time you spent that amount getting politicians to do what you want?

                  Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with Trump (or anyone) spending their own money in whatever way they please, but when someone suggest Trump is not part of the ruling elite, on the grounds that he walks and talks with ordinary people, I do wonder what I'm missing. He very clearly doesn't do either of those things, and he has more influence on what becomes law than any ordinary person does. Yet still you have the perception he not part of the ruling elite. As far as I can see the only genuine difference between Trump and other politicians is that he is openly racist and sexist. Other politicians who harbor similar thoughts usually try to hide them a little. Is that the "connection to the citizenry" you are talking about?

                  (1) https://thinkprogress.org/labor-board-s … .u8701n9mp
                  (2) http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-tru … story.html
                  (3) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leo-w-ger … 15638.html
                  (4) https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/lobby. … D000030559
                  (5) http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/d … z4MiFp9BNs

  2. colorfulone profile image86
    colorfuloneposted 2 months ago

    The Comeback King was billions of dollars in debt and talked about it on The Apprentice.
    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/782822985300193280

    The US is TRILLIONS of dollars in debt.  I trust Trump to be able to reduce that debt and WE can make a comeback. 

    In 1995 the New York Times praised Trump with "Crowning the Comeback King"
    http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/25/nyreg … -king.html

    After the collapse of the real estate market of the 1980's, Mr. Trump's company was left holding some $8.8 billion in debt, causing his personal net worth to drop to a low of about $1 billion in the red by 1991.

    I think it was in 2014 the NYT didn't pay any taxes.  They learned!

    Who pays more taxes then they have to?  Do you?

    Federal law makes it illegal to publish an unauthorized tax return:
    It shall be unlawful for any person to whom any return or return information (as defined in section 6103(b)) is disclosed in a manner unauthorized by this title thereafter willfully to print or publish in any manner not provided by law any such return or return information. Any violation of this paragraph shall be a felony punishable by a fine in any amount not exceeding $5,000, or imprisonment of not more than 5 years, or both, together with the costs of prosecution."

    1. My Esoteric profile image88
      My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      You, and the NY politicians (not the NYT), were (are) premature.  He spent the next decade plus running his casino businesses into the ground; they never were profitable.  He filed is final bankruptcy in 2014.  A year later this so-called success announced he was going to run for President so that He can be great again, and probably bankrupt America in the process..

  3. colorfulone profile image86
    colorfuloneposted 2 months ago

    roll   You don't think?

    1. JayeWisdom profile image93
      JayeWisdomposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      I DO think! A narcissist (and Donald Trump fits the textbook description of that behavioral disorder so much that one reputable teaching psychiatrist uses him as an example of narcissism in one of his university classes) is not capable of putting other people or, indeed, the best interests of an entire country before his own wants. He would like the power and would probably think of himself as a king, but he wouldn't want to actually fulfill the responsibilities of the office, nor could he.

  4. 0
    JackalOLanternposted 2 months ago

    I believe that Trump is the embodiment of what America has come to disfavor through our political views. While he has been able to come back multiple times from bankruptcy, he represents one of the founding principles that the Founders of our country wished to avoid. Directly following the ideas of the elitist view, which states that it is comprised of a government where the elite class form a central power rather than the diverse opinions of the middle class, Trump shows through his lack of confirmed tax releases that he may in fact be aligned with the elitism idealism of government. As a result of this, I believe that Trump may very well be a threat to our system of government that the Founding Fathers worked so hard for to create, and electing him as a President would potentially be disastrous for the American government we thrive in today.

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

      And this guy is supposed to be a populist on the working man's behalf?  yeah right...

      1. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Yes!

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13220607.jpg

        1. Live to Learn profile image81
          Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          I read that as 'the Mormons'. I couldn't figure out why they would vote for Hillary.

          1. colorfulone profile image86
            colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Oh, tummy laughter is great!

            Do you think Democrats or anyone  would consider Steve Jobs a failed businessman for losing 1.05 billion dollars in '97?  I'm sure he did things according to the law to make a comeback too!

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13221739_f1024.jpg
            Clinton Foundation 'fraud began with exploiting earthquake' in Haiti
            Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/10/clinton-foun … 8DKj2Vf.99

            1. My Esoteric profile image88
              My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

              Did you notice that the TV says "Interim CEO for PART of the Year"?

              Did you notice that APPLE lost the $1B?

              Did you notice that Jobs DID NOT declare a billion dollar loss on HIS income tax?

              Did you notice where Jobs turned Apple around from near bankruptcy into one of the powerhouses today?

              Did you notice that Trump continued to drive his companies into bankruptcy through 2014?

              Probably not.

              So, what was your point again?

              1. colorfulone profile image86
                colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                You didn't get those points from a reputable business site. 

                Remember Whitewater and failed Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan?
                http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/h … fts-229093

                1. My Esoteric profile image88
                  My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  A reputable business site like Drudge, Limbaugh, Hannity?

                  In any case, give me a site that disputes each of those points?  In addition to common sense, I can give you many site like Forbes, Bloomberg, Washington Post, etc that does.

                  1. colorfulone profile image86
                    colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                    Forbes is pretty darn good...go for it.
                    http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconno … 2b59366f7a

                    Its just common sense, but the average person might not be able to understand it.  I think you'll get it.  Sorry, they didn't know you would want to prove your points when they published it. 

                    Drudge puts links on his site from everywhere, including articles that bash him because he thinks its funny, and that people 'get it'. 

                    Hannity is not a reporter/journalist, he is a talk show host and a very good one.  Honest man!

                    Limbaugh, I don't read his stuff much, but I do admire his humanitarian efforts greatly.

      2. rhamson profile image77
        rhamsonposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        He has finally crossed over to a direct line by joining the political power that drains this country. I say he has joined as his actions of the past have little to do with the transparent promises he makes if he becomes President. His economic policies beckon back to the VOO DOO echoes of Reaganomics and its' failures while he promotes a heavy handed foreign policy of military build up and threatening tones. This while claiming a isolationist stance with trade and diplomacy.

        Hillary is no better with her veiled Obama policy continuation as she has to pay back all the favors she has bankrolled her candidacy with. We are a pathetic bunch of cowards unwilling to bite the bullet of change that is painful and full of selfish blunders in trying to control others with our greedy exploits. We have to re-invent ourselves and reverse our path down the worm hole of irrelevance and poverty.

        1. My Esoteric profile image88
          My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          There is noting "veiled" about HRC's desire to continue PBO's successful policies, but with a more "take charge" attitude.

          1. rhamson profile image77
            rhamsonposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Success as defined by who? Many have not recovered from the devastating losses of the great recession. Wall Street continues to borrow money at 0% and sell our money back to us at a percentage all under PBO's watchful eye. The next step is to finally come after our homes as the economy crashes again while running up the debt our children will be left to pay for. Maybe another Obama will come along then and "save" us from more devastation.

        2. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Excuse my delay in response as I among others have been working around 'Matthew' the last couple of days.

          I understand reinventing ourselves, I was hoping to get in the right direction with Bernie. This did not turn out, so what is the alternative? I can't stand Trump, so for me I am left with Hillary and the status quo with all of her faults.

          Trump is just another plutocrat, hardly a breath of fresh air. He proposes GOP policy initiatives which for the most part, I oppose anyway. The directionObama takes us in was better than, say G.w.Bush, even though they are both standard politicians, in my opinion. He would done even better without GOP recalcitrance and obstruction throughout his term.

          While both parties are hopelessly snarled in status quo rigidity, one side has addresses at least some of my concerns while the other in committed to going in the opposite direction

          1. My Esoteric profile image88
            My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            All people have faults, including Hillary, but what "faults" does she have that would make her a bad President?  (I am drawing a distinction between personality faults and policy disagreements.)

            She lies no more or less than the run-of-the-mill pol.  None of her bad judgments are catastrophic in nature, even the email thing (now, if she hadn't used state-of-the-art security measures on her server, I would think differently, but every indication is, she did.)  As Sec State, there is no indication her, and her staffs, actual relationship with Clinton Foundation donors was any different than is the norm in Washington.

            She is very defensive and secretive, but then who wouldn't be given the despicable way she has been treated for the last 30 years and the modern media's penchant for twisting words and sensationalizing headlines in the name of profit and poor journalism.

            Frankly, I have run out of faults..

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

              M.E, ideology and platform is more important than personality issues, in my opinion. If HC was so problematic there would no way that she would be allowed at the top of the ticket for any major political party. This probably explains why otherwise perfectly normal conservatives and Republicans are getting in line behind Trump, despite his high negatives, even for them.

    2. colorfulone profile image86
      colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Comey / Lynch connect with Clintons and HSBC. (taxes, etc.)
      They are connected in more ways, but I'm tired.

  5. Live to Learn profile image81
    Live to Learnposted 2 months ago

    A guy's accountants use the tax code to have their client pay the least possible.

    Do we demand a fair and just tax code? Of course not. We demonize the person who is filing the taxes his accountants prepare. It's so much easier and lots more fun.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image86
      PrettyPantherposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      I've seen conservatives on these forums repeatedly demonize the poor and working class for not paying taxes. I've seen conservatives on these forums demonize the poor for receiving entitlements from the government, legally. It seems that many of these conservatives hold poor people to a higher standard than Donald Trump.

      1. IslandBites profile image83
        IslandBitesposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13221251.jpg

        1. My Esoteric profile image88
          My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          LOL.

      2. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        That's a fair assessment.

  6. LeslieAlex profile image78
    LeslieAlexposted 2 months ago

    You're crazy.  Trump Pence 2016 .

  7. Kathleen Cochran profile image85
    Kathleen Cochranposted 2 months ago

    My Esoteric:  This is the world we live in.  Nothing, nothing, nothing matters to Trump followers except being able to say, "Well, she is too." like a bunch of middle schoolers.  The only comfort is to know that if he wins, they will have gotten what they deserve.  Of course, we will all of us have to suffer, though.

    Five bucks says within 5 minutes of this post, someone will write:  If she wins, we will have gotten what we deserve too. 

    Yep, Experience and Qualifications.  (No, they won't write that.)

    1. JayeWisdom profile image93
      JayeWisdomposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      As for me, I'm voting for Jill Stein. I'm getting old and want to see someone with integrity in the White House, not a narcissist or corporate shill.  I think the Hillary and Trump supporters are forgetting the huge numbers of voters who are completely disgusted with the status quo and not willing to "settle" again. That includes a lot of disgusted Democrats and disgusted-with-Trump Republicans. There's a very large bloc of Independent voters, and here's what made me smile earlier today. Ron Paul said he will not support Johnson, who calls himself a Libertarian, but will vote for Jill Stein! Actually, that statement made my day! Bless your heart, Ron Paul (and I never thought I'd say that!)

      1. My Esoteric profile image88
        My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        If you want those qualities, Gary Johnson fits the bill, not Stein from what I have seen of her.  She is just as Narcissistic as Clinton, but no one compares to Trump.

        It is mathematically impossible, let alone politically, for Stein to win.  So voting for her is simply to close your eyes to how it will affect America and vote your conscience. 

        For me, it still would be Clinton, but when I vote, I vote for what I think is best for America in a practical sense, not necessarily who I think would do the better job.  If I did that, I would write in Colin Powell's name.

  8. colorfulone profile image86
    colorfuloneposted 2 months ago

    I think it was Donald Trump himself that leaked his private protected tax information, so that the vast corruption of government and multi-nation corporations and the Clinton Foundation could be exposed. 

    He needs to start talking about his historic numbers as the "Comeback King". 

    Its brilliant, Trump trolled the media!  lol 
    This is incredibly hilarious.

    1. My Esoteric profile image88
      My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      You do know that the "Comeback King" is no longer a complement, but a derision that highlights his inability to keep his businesses afloat.  He has zero long-term successes, except maybe his reality show; he has few ventures that remained solvent five year or more, and some (his casinos) never were solvent.

      Your definition of success is beyond me, color.

      1. colorfulone profile image86
        colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Show me the evidence.

        1. My Esoteric profile image88
          My Esotericposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … -bankrupt/

          How many times has Warren  Buffet declared bankruptcy?

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

            How many casinos has Warren Buffet owned and operated during the period that Casinos were in trouble and going under (you are aware that Caesars is in major trouble even now and may follow Trumps example with more than the handful they've closed?). 

            Hard to understand just why Trump is so demonized for his failed casinos when so many have shut their doors in Vegas alone.  It is a tough business, and bankruptcy is quite common.

            1. My Esoteric profile image88
              My Esotericposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

              Many casino's survived that period without BK; Trump failed as a business man SIX, count them, SIX times.

              He does do better when he partners with someone who knows what they are doing however; I will give you that.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                Many survived.  Many failed.  But the only failure we hear about is Trump - why is that?  Because it makes great fodder for the Democratic mud machine, that's why!

                Trump had some failures, but you don't get to be a billionaire by constantly failing - there were many more successes than failures.  Even a Trump hater has to recognize that simple fact.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image86
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  Because he's running fore president. Duh!

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                    You got it in one.  And that he is running means massive amounts of mud in today's political elections.

              2. PrettyPanther profile image86
                PrettyPantherposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                I have repeatedly asked Trump supporters why, if Trump is such an awesome businessman, he doesn't have even one of his peers singing his praises and supporting him for president. Crickets....

                1. wilderness profile image97
                  wildernessposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  Again, even a Trump hater has to understand that.  He doesn't get along with Big Business and their political ploys.  NO ONE in the power hierarchy likes him - he doesn't play ball with them.  Which is why he belongs in the White House.  To put a stop to the "business as usual" on the Hill.

  9. colorfulone profile image86
    colorfuloneposted 8 weeks ago

    UH OH: Clintons Accused Of Dodging Federal Taxes, Established 'Shell Companies'

    http://www.hannity.com/articles/electio … -15164836/

    Things just keep on getting more interesting. Well, maybe its not that interesting anymore, not to many anyway.

  10. Erez Harosh profile image61
    Erez Haroshposted 8 weeks ago

    Me too

 
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