I want everyone to remember that when Obama took office with a far left agenda there were no riots. No state talked secession. It was a disappointment to the right but they didn't act like this.
I find the behavior of the left anti democratic, and anti freedom. They should be ashamed of themselves.
+1,000,000,000,000,000- it is the MORE EXTREME Liberals, even Leftists. I am a Liberal & I am totally appalled by the immature, destructive behavior of the rioters. It shows how far American society has disintegrated. If one doesn't get one's way, one can riot instead of realizing that sometimes things don't go his/her way.
This is the 1960s multiplied. Let me add that IT IS not only the MORE EXTREME Liberals, even Leftists but RADICALIZED Liberals. Liberals have "evolved" into a more extreme, revolutionary, even radical branch. What is Liberal today, I call Leftist in ideology. I am a Liberal but I am NOT A LEFTIST. However, I took an ideology test which identified me as a Centrist.
I haven't seen such as I have seen in this tumultuous election. There were Liberals who cried when Hillary lost. They whined like 2 year olds. Now, there is rioting. There is a faction of the Liberal population that need to put on their adult pants. It is shameful behavior really & I as a Liberal am telling it LIKE IT IS. I spare no quarter whether it is Liberal or Conservative. If you're wrong, you're wrong regardless of ideology.
You are right, except about the no state talked of secession. Texas did. However, Obama did not do this:
Sling insults to entire groups of people based on their color, gender, physical appearance, and religion
Brag about grabbing pussy and kissing women without their permission
Promise to throw his opponent in jail
Tell his supporters he would pay their legal fees if they get arrested for violence
Claim that if he lost it was because the election is rigged
Spend a week slamming a Gold Star family
Ask Americans to watch a porn video
Shall I go on? This election is like no other, so the reaction is going to be like no other. I do not support or defend violent protests, but I also will not support or defend the hateful candidate whose ugly rhetoric and behavior only served to inflame the emotions of the citizens he is supposed to lead.
Got to learn to look beyond the superficial meaning of political rhetoric , Trump talked about fantasy sexual prowess in a locker room , The Clintons together , owned the very existence of sexual harassment ! Together . All of the "rigged election " is OWNED by your left ! You "Gold Star Family " entered into a political election circus , by Clinton invitation . .
What's your problem , Can you spell , S-o-r-e L-o-s-e-r-?
Nope, I'm not a sore loser. Trump won fair and square. You, however, were claiming a rigged election if Trump lost.
Just holding you all accountable for your choice.
Since we don't have to look forward to 4 years of a lying, cheating thief who has no respect for the law (as concerns her actions) I'd say we got the better or the two options we were presented with.
Yes, as I have been saying, you voted your conscience, which means your heart is right there with the guy who bragged about grabbing pussy and vindictively insulted the parents of a fallen soldier for an entire week. I understand you thought Hillary was worse than that.
Does that mean that your heart is right there with a thief that puts herself above the law, that grossly abuses political power to punish her enemies or reward her friends and was a part of subverting her own party politics to gain an advantage? Is that where your heart is, supporting and cheering those things?
Or did your conscience keep you home that fateful day, pretending that voting really isn't a part of your duty as an American?
In this election, that's exactly what it means. I take full responsibility for my vote. Apparently, that's too much to ask of certain Trump voters.
I'm glad you're not my neighbor. Anyone openly condoning and supporting theft is not someone I need to be around, and neither is anyone declaring themselves above the law.
Do you think all Clinton voters are like that? Supporting theft and calling for abuse of political power?
By that post you are supporting the protests. I hold you in the same regard I hold them
But, I stand corrected if Texas threatened succession. How childish.
"I do not support or defend violent protests...."
Did you miss that part?
No, but you did say I also will not support or defend the hateful candidate whose ugly rhetoric and behavior only served to inflame the emotions of the citizens he is supposed to lead. which only appears to rationalize that they had reason to riot.
Or attack the decorum of Obama's kids, and his wife, Michelle. Trumps First Lady is a playboy centerfold, a graduate of Trump University, Magnum Cum lotta, shipped to her sugar daddy via UPS and hardly fluent in the ENGLISH language. But in spite of all this, the conservatives savaged Michelle as an accomplished individual in her own right. Trump's strum pet is supposed to be a role model for so many and in the rightwingers endless moral hypocrisy and indignation, not a word is said about the glaring contradiction.
Yep. They didn't like Michelle's bare arms but Melania's nude modeling is just fine.
Careful there PP. Your desire to be defined as intellectual elite gets more and more difficult to imagine with every new post.
I did not define myself that way. Horsey and GA did. I merely accepted the label since it seems to pop up every time I correct horsey's factual error or use the term "uneducated white voter" within reading distance of GA..
OK, well as long as we both understand you aren't.
Lol, good one! And we understand you voted FOR Trump and everything he said and did.
Glad we finally understand each other.
Honestly? Foot in mouth is better than hand in till. To me.
Yes, because you don't believe what he says anyway. We've established that.
Again, childish. I'll tell you this. I don't give a rat's behind what he said that might be stupid as long as his policy decisions as president are intelligent. I know, at the least, they won't be as crooked and detrimental to America as Hillary's would have been
I suppose the day will come when you might regret this childish outburst you are experiencing. But, you are damaging the name liberal with every post.
I'm sure you are genuinely outraged at my behavior. I don't really care. About half the country are genuinely outraged that a man with so little self control that mommy Kellyanne had to take away his Twitter privileges is now our president. Some of us are not going to let you wiggle out of the ramifications of your vote.
Hey, Panther, there is a thread featuring a wonderful article by Bill Moyers that clarifies the true ramifications of what occurred on Nov 8th. Check it out!!
I'll check it out tomorrow. I'm actually winding down for today. My husband is giving me the side-eye from across the room for being on this damned tablet all day.
Where you getting these quotes youre like a fortune cookie fountain of wisdom
I agree with that. Trump is providing dinners to the police officers that are working the “Trump Protests”. Looks good!
* https://twitter.com/ChiTownCheese/statu … 56/video/1
Ha! You didn't think I was close enough to hear that did you!
Luckily, I just got new batteries, and no, I did not accuse you of being an "intellectual elite." And technically, I didn't even accuse you of being snotty... I mean technically I didn't. (*plausible deniability)
"... PrettyPanther, if I describe your response as unflatteringly haughty and condescending would you more likely peg me as college educated than if I described it as snotty BS that shows you need to be taken down a notch or two, "cause you ain't so much better than me!"?
...and, Ha! Ha!, (that's a double-Ha!), I think my most recent notice of a response of yours to ahorseback contradicts what you think I think of your interactions with "horsey."
Porn industry is bigger than Hollywood. No wonder America sex education is screw up.
I tried porn for a short while, when dating was not going well. Wake up with jacker cramp then could not operate other hand tools very well.
I did it until I needed glasses.
Obama didn't take office with 2.5 million fewer votes than his opponent. Liberals may have cried like 2-year-olds at the result, but republicans cried and whined for 8 years. And they got their way most of the time. Little got done. (Except for rescuing the economy, killing bin Laden, passing affordable health care, and bringing thousands of troops home after a decade of war. All without an ounce of help from them.)
I take issue with folks who say "He won. It's over." He lost by 5 times more votes than Bush lost by when he assumed the presidency inspite of the popular vote. That's not winning. That's a screwed up system.
You're right. The right belly ached for eight years. Will two wrongs make a right?
Hillary did get more votes. But more states were disillusioned with the results of eight years of a democrat in the oval office, than not. That, to me, is an ominous thing. We are united states, or want to be. Should we move to a system where a few states with major cities are the only force which chooses the person to lead us all? Will that system make us feel more, or less, united?
You haven't done your homework, Texas is a prime example of a state that was discussing secession with Gov. Perry leading the charge within the last 3 to 4 years after Obama was reelected.
Since you seem to have a far right orientation, everything a center left politician does is far left for you.
As far as I am concerned the right has been so nasty over the last eight years, from questioning the President's eligibility to any number of stupid conspiracy theories and such.
But, again, that is just MY opinion on the matter.
A poor guess. Strangely, every quiz I take puts me in the liberal category. I think my main problem is that liberals appear to have no moral compass. Yes, I know that seems a strange statement for someone who voted for Trump but holier than thou hypocrisy on top of it pushed me away.
Just a point and I will do my best to say it nicely. Do you think you would get a better response to your thoughts if you said "some liberals" instead of "liberals"? Do you think your kumbaya post on another thread mght be better received by those you are imploring to "view our fellow citizens with anything other than contempt" if you hadn't already started another thread entitled "Dangerous Liberals"? This is a sincere question.
Sincerely, that comment on liberals lacking a moral compass applies to liberal politicians. Not people in general.
And, of course, if you aren't participating with or supporting those who are/were damaging property in a tirade that their candidate didn't win I would think you don't fall into the category of 'dangerous liberal'. Since the OP clarified who the dangerous liberals were I'm surprised you felt the need to include that in your query.
Then I suggest your comments might be better received if you were more precise.
If I stated conservatives are stupid, wouldnt you feel I was denigrating all conservatives, even if I then went on to talk about those who believe Obama was born in Kenya?
For sure. Just like when you commented that Trump voters were 'uneducated'. Implying that all of us might not have graduated third grade.
Did I actually say that? I don't think so.
Did I say you said that? You may have. I don't know. There were so many catty little posts attempting to degrade both sides there for a few days. We are both cats so I might have gotten us confused with others.
Yes, you did say I said that: "Just like when you commented that Trump voters were 'uneducated'. Implying that all of us might not have graduated third grade."
And, no I didn't. I suspect you spent some time looking for it but didn't find a thing. In any case, my original point still stands.
What is this about liberal's lacking a moral compass? In what way? You need to put some flesh on those bones. I would expect such a statement from Rush Limbaugh...
As it pertains to the average voter, look at the support Hillary enjoyed. We can all argue if the things she has done over the years warrant prosecution or incarceration but we cannot argue the acts.
I'm all for forgiving people. Probably 30 percent of the people I employ have made mistakes grave enough to prohibit their employment by other area business owners. We all make mistakes but how we react to those mistakes is evidence of our character.
I don't see liberal support of Hillary as 'forgiving' and giving a chance but complete disinterest in the concepts of fair play and ethical behavior. I have lost the ability to see them in a different light from the right. Before this election I couldn't have imagined a scenario where that could happen.
It has nothing to do with disinterest, we knew she had problems, it is that Trump is perceived as worse and it is more than having a loose lip. How much of the man is behind the words? You can't continue to say impolitic and hateful things without having that as a fundamental part of your character. Trying to separate the two does not really work as if they are independent of one another is disingenuous.
I don't remember there being a spate of anti-white, sexist, Obama-related hate crimes when Obama was elected in 2008 and 2012, as there seems to be now after Trump being elected.
Presumably you find that behaviour to be anti freedom too, and believe "the right" should be ashamed of themselves also?
Of course. I have no love of the uncivil behavior of the right.
Several of the protesters and people who have rioted in the past year or so have admitted they were paid. That has been caught on videos and in emails. They are running ads on Crag's List again for activities to protest.
The ad reads
"Washington CAN! is our state's oldest and largest Grassroots Non-Profit. We've been organizing and winning on the local and national level for over 35 years on issues such as Racial, Social, and Economic Justice, Health Care, Immigration Reform, Tax Fairness, and a Living Wage for all workers.
We are looking for motivated individuals who are seeking Full-Time, Part-Time, and Permanent positions."
* http://www.hannity.com/articles/electio … -15288347/
Trump is creating jobs. lol
I support the protesters because Trump has threatened to violate the first amendment of the US Constitution with his Muslim ban.
I find it annoying that Trump voters regard his campaign rhetoric as entertainment. I don't think mocking, denigrating and discriminating belong in campaign rhetoric. Trump has mocked, denigrated and discriminated against Mexicans, Blacks, Muslims, war veterans, the handicapped, the sick, etc. Trump insulted the Prince of Saudi Arabia. Trump vilified the Mexicans. This is not entertainment. This constitutes every thing our nation is not. It constitutes everything our founders did not want our nation to become.
Freedom of speech, religion and the press are the fabric of our nation. Rhetoric about destroying or compromising these freedoms should never be tolerated and should never be regarded as entertainment.
If Trump upholds and defends the Constitution; If Trump applies his genius to the politics of running our great nation; If Trump does not resort to mocking, denigrating and discriminating against those who oppose him; If Trump abides by all of the above in this paragraph he will be a great President.
But if Trump persists in his mocking, denigrating and discriminating against those who oppose him; If Trump does not uphold the first amendment; If Trump resorts to mocking, denigrating and discriminating in his domestic efforts and his international efforts; If Trump does all this, he will be the worst President in the history of our nation. And I think he will be impeached.
The reason why you didn't see these protests was because the majority of people weren't nearly as concerned about Obama having a 'hateful disposition' meant to intentionally stir up hard feelings among our DIVERSE population AND the entire world. Also, he had the 'book knowledge' and some political experience to do the job. We may have elected 'someone unusual'; but we didn't elect an irresponsible, hate-mongering, spiteful jerk. Obama & Hillary have both been quite gracious losers. The other side was threatening us with GUNS if they lost!! I suppose we should all be grateful.
Hillary lost for three reasons:
1) The electorial college vs popular vote. FYI, because the GOP won BUT didn't win the popular vote means that MOST people in this country did NOT vote for their policies. Thus, the protests.
2) The majority of white Christian women for some reason obviously don't think the same way about things as other Christian women of other races. The same thing goes for men, but they have an easier time throwing the excuse of 'we're ANGRY' at the world.
3) Comey's conveniently-timed, illegal stunt that was designed to remind people of Hillary's 'badness' over The Donald's at a critical juncture AT THE END of the race.
This is why INDEPENDENTS (not 'liberals' or 'democrats') are ANGRY with the election results:
1) You vote only the way Republicans and/or your Preachers TELL you to (Franklin Graham!) - like, KEEP voting FOR rich people because THEY have the money to let us work menial jobs beneath them so they can pay us peanuts; and their money can 'trickle down' to us humble folks. (Jesus doesn't want anyone to have any money anyway, right?)
2) Vote FOR wars because we all know that whomever we are fighting are NOT Christians; and therefore we are 'on the side of God' when we go to war. Those heathens NEED to either accept JC as their savior and DO WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO - or DIE. Its unfortunate, but NOT OUR FAULT that they will go to hell.
3) Vote FOR anyone who is Pro-Life in order to eliminate abortions in this country (no matter WHAT); because GOD is judging us for murdering babies. That's why our country is like it is; and in FACT, there is a verse in the WORD of GOD that SAYS a country will be judged for this crime! It AMAZES me how much they completely ignore trying to fix the REASONS WHY women choose abortion & attempting to fix them. It should also be noted that CHRISTIAN WOMEN are the ones who acquire the MOST abortions in this country (search for my hub question titled, Why do Christian women utilize the 'sin' of abortion the most). There are statistics.
4) They are so damn scared of HELPING each other out through what they consider to be 'socialism' - its ridiculous! What a bunch of SELFISH, UNLOVING, HATEFUL brats. Sorry, LOVE is not a word that comes to mind.
Jesus Christ was a Socialist:
Matt 25: "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
Matthew 5 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others?"
If you are a Christian and HATE me for saying any of this - do a heart check. I know, it doesn't usually help you because you're all always so damn RIGHT. But every once in a while it does WONDERS. I know, because I am someone who managed to realize how mind-controlling that religion IS and squirmed my way OUT. Christians have absolutely NO IDEA what it means to actually be FREE - although they sure believe they are. Its HARD to admit that the big eye controls YOU.
Our deep divisions are as profitable as any war; and are very possibly perpetuated intentionally. It is always the SAME government in that office - just varying shades of who cares about the people who live here. The chasm that exists through both America & The World is a lot more simple than most people realize. SEARCH for - Christians & ex-Christians Prove God Exists by Debunking Salvation: Science & Spirituality Reveal the Real Jesus Christ
Well, that is such a long rant you have there I don't know where to start. I will say that I'm not certain the reason you stated is actually the reason for the protest. Tensions were high throughout the election. I think had Drumpf won the popular vote, by a wide margin, we would still be experiencing unrest. I'd be curious why you think men have an easier time saying 'I'm angry'. I've said it repeatedly and I'm not a guy.
As to the white christian woman comment. I don't know. But, I think it may be a superficial assessment on your part. I would think that would mean that Christianity didn't play a major role in their decision? Which, is a good thing, I think.
I don't think Comey's actions were illegal. I don't think anyone has said they were. I'm surprised you would say that. I was flabbergasted when he came forward and I did think it seemed very fishy. But, I do also believe he was in a 'damned if I do, damned if I don't position'. The current administration had already been accused of bias. Had it come out later, after the election, even if there was nothing to the emails it would have also looked bad.
As to your list of reasons liberals are angry. I'm not a church goer and I don't listen to televangelists. I agree with you that Jesus was promoting a socialist lifestyle for his followers. I laugh at a lot of things Christians claim are 'right' according to God. But, the comment about voting in rich people. Seriously? What, exactly, is Hillary? She isn't one of us, I can tell you that. She admits that she is so far removed from us that she has difficulty understanding our concerns. So being upset that one rich person got elected, instead of another is a little silly.
I am against war also. However, Obama has not only not extricated us from the region it appears to me that he has expanded our involvement. I didn't see anything in Hillary's rhetoric which led me to believe she was going to somehow bring about peace. Quite the opposite. So, a vote for Hillary didn't appear to be a vote for peace.
I'm pro choice. I'll be honest. I don't think Drumpf gave a rat's behind about the subject until it came up in the election process. You noticed how he kept changing his stance? He didn't care and had never really thought about it. And, I don't think he will care as president. It's none of his business anyway. But, I will point out something that I wasn't aware of until this election cycle. We are, truly, divided as a country on this topic. It seems to me a no brainer to accept that you have no right to legislate what a woman does with her womb but it's a pretty even split as to who thinks what on abortion. So you and I are not a majority on that topic.
As to helping each other out. I'm all for that but many of our social programs are not truly helping people. They are enslaving them. We need programs with a hand up not a hand out.
I do agree with you that the players have changed but the game is the same. Will Drumpf be able to change that? Maybe not. But think about what this election has accomplished. The Republican party knows now that they do not speak to the people on issues we care about. They know that we consider them to have let us down. I hear the Democratic party feels the same. If they have gotten it through their thick heads that business as usual is not acceptable to us we may see positive change within the parties. Also, Drumpf as an outsider took the election. He has proven that political machines cannot break a candidate and cause them to lose. All of the powers that be did everything they could to kick him down and he won. We may see a slew of better and more able people run for office now. True statesmen and stateswomen. I can tell you if I have to live through four years of crap to see a brighter political future it is worth it to me.
The so-called "defense budget" for the U.S. was $601 billion in 2015! The numbers don't lie. Obviously violence is the key to getting things done in this world. Otherwise, there would be no reason for such spending. When the U.S. government doesn't agree with something or someone, or even when they think a particular situation (Like Vietnam or Libya) "might" lead to a disagreeable outcome, they pump up the volume with violence and weapons of mass destruction.
But here I see people commiserating about a few thousand unarmed protesters, some of whom have caused minor property damage. Yes minor compared to what the U.S. and their Arab partners have unleashed on the Syrian people since the proxy war began in 2011.
Powerless people get no respect from the powerful. Power only respects power. A peaceful protest accomplishes nothing, and only further empowers and emboldens the opposition. It is only when the status quo feels that the cost of confrontation, in either property or human life is too great, that they seek to compromise, or find a solution to the problem. These are the facts of life. I admire the protesters, and hope they continue to pump up the volume and bring down not only a tyrant, but the evil puppet masters who are pulling his strings.
OK. But, I don't think these protests are going to accomplish anything other than some property damage to people who didn't do anything wrong, other than be in the area where these people chose to protest.
Protest is great, if it has a valid purpose. I'm not sure what they hope to accomplish here. I don't think they are sure. I think they are simply venting.
I'm sure you DO admire 18 year olds wilding out for the cause , problem is , they have no clue as to the cause , no meaning to their ideology , no back up for the argument s when questioned . I have never met an alt-left activist that could put together a complete argument without an emotional breakdown or the attempt to outshout their opponent . And I was there in the sixties listening to the same mentality , they made no sense then either !
I guess the pot was good then , today though , they are totally burned out .
The SMART people have spoken! *I* am not an 18yo; and I fully understand 'the cause' - PLUS, I outlined the poor position of Trump's voters pretty thoroughly, above this post. I guess you missed it.
The SMART people have spoken? I suppose if you can't effectively argue a cause you just call yourself smart and think you've won the point? We all see how that worked out in the election.
Like I said, I outlined the poor position of Trump's voters pretty thoroughly, above (two posts now?) this post. I guess you missed it. All you peeps who are so smart are conveniently missing it.
I responded to your post. I suppose you are just sooo smart (in your own estimation) that you think if you say something everyone is going to be dumbfounded by its brilliance and automatically declare 'gee she's right'.
Right, sorry - my apologies, this was stuffed among all the others and I missed it. Stupid me!
Yes, tensions were high throughout the election - and believe it or NOT, people like me were waiting with anticipation (not hate) for the results; FULLY INTENDING on accepting the outcome - until we discovered WHY so many people voted the way they did (ie. white - especially Christian - women & men vs other races). Christian men have an easier time blending in with all the rest of the angry white men who voted; while the split between women is much more evident. Again, why do white Christian women vote so differently than Christian women from other races who have every reason to be at least as angry? The same question goes to white Christian men.
Comey & The Hatch Act: "The rules are violated if it is obvious that the official's actions could influence the election, there is no other good reason for taking those actions, and the official is acting under pressure from persons who obviously do want to influence the election."
Things would have been different surrounding that issue if 1) his original 'announcement' hadn't been so intentionally-criptic & vague; when LATER 2) it took them mere DAYS to go through those 'potentially-incriminating' emails to clear her; when they COULD have done that BEFORE they made any announcements. You don't think that is suspicious, at all?
Voting for Rich: FYI, one of the basic beliefs of the Republican Party is to buff up the rich to let money trickle down to the middle class & poor. It has ALWAYS been part of their platform; and it is also why Christians in those classes vote for them.
"I'm pro choice. I'll be honest. I don't think Drumpf gave a rat's behind about the subject until it came up in the election process. You noticed how he kept changing his stance? He didn't care and had never really thought about it. And, I don't think he will care as president. It's none of his business anyway."
That is one of my points: Republicans use the issue of abortion to manipulate the hearts & minds of good Christian women who simply CANNOT vote for the opposing party who they see as being FOR murdering babies. And as you just indicated, that is exactly what they did. HOWEVER, the concerning thing is that the topics of both immigration & abortion are two things that he can take action on quickly enough when he gets in there. They are two of the things he can carry through on almost immediately to make it appear that he is carrying out the wishes of 'his people'. Christians are actually VERY OPTIMISTIC that abortion will be overturned.
I disagree on the helping out programs, obviously. As many decent people use them as a temporary thing between life situations, as you view lazy people. Certainly there are room for improvements; and we can only improve things by continuing to work on them - not kicking them to the curb.
"The Republican party knows now that they do not speak to the people on issues we care about." I don't know what world you live in; but in case you haven't noticed - their entire platform is based on p*ssing on as many things Obama accomplished over the past eight years as they can; AND they obviously could care LESS about the fact that they did not receive the popular vote.
Thanks for finally replying with a response other than 'you're stupid'. Honestly, the only reason I say it to begin with; is because I keep hearing similar crap from Trumpsters while NOT getting a decent response. Thank you!
You can always blame it on the white race religious , bigots , racist , misogynists, sexist ................................Oh never mind , you already tried that tactic .
Trump: "If the election were based on total popular vote I would have campaigned in N.Y. Florida and California and won even bigger and more easily."
Translation: by concentrating my efforts in the red, fanatically-religious WHITE TRASH states; I WON the electorial vote of this election by playing on their hate, racism & misogyny like one of God's angels with a harp! I was IRRESISTABLE!
If I would have targeted and/or included the perspective of blue, more balanced states whose populations actually live & THRIVE among DIVERSITY - and actually have educations beyond the bible to understand the scope of LIFE better - my message would have had to be entirely different and likely much more complicated for simple white folks to wrap their minds around.
How's that for politically-incorrect for you? I know you 'conservatives' PRIDE yourselves on that special talent. What do you think? 10? 9.5? 8.5?
Our deep divisions are as profitable as any war; and are very possibly perpetuated intentionally. The chasm that exists through both America & The World is a lot more simple than most people realize. Christians & ex-Christians Prove God Exists by Debunking Salvation: Science & Spirituality Reveal the Real Jesus Christ hub.me/akagx
Are you aware of how offensive you are when you offer an opinion? I'm not white trash. I voted for Trump. I haven't seen you identify me with any of your slurs as of yet. Do you even know who we are? Those of us who tipped the scales in his favor? Or are you simply capable of insulting without bothering to think as you do?
Yes, I am as aware of offending people as they are of offending & judging me. It seems to be the way to get the attention of know-it-alls.
I've already defended myself regarding this elsewhere, but its a little hard to say everything that should be said every time. I DO NOT think that every person who voted for Donald Trump is racist & misogynistic; NOR do I think ANY of you are stupid - even white Christians, believe it or not.
AGAIN, *I* was one of those people who thought the anticipation of the wait that built up when the swing states couldn't be called for hours - was kind of fun. One of the female news anchors said it best during that time, "It's like being in the delivery room and waiting to see if its a boy or a girl!" Yeah, it was kind of exciting to see 'which way' we were going to go... I wasn't even SORT of afraid who was chosen; and I'm still not. Neither Trump nor any political party rules my world.
It was in the aftermath of seeing the stats - and what they say about us as a country - that set me (and many others who were also originally 'okay with either' candidate) off on this rampage. It isn't that we are trying to change anything other than to get people to LOOK AT THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR - EVERY. LAST. ONE. OF. YOU.
Until we start seeing some heartfelt apologies from Trump (he just needs to keep talking, as you can see - he keeps digging his hole deeper); and some semblance of 'unity' beyond telling those of us who didn't vote for him to just deal with his obviously underhanded BS - no, there will be no peace.
The reason is as OBVIOUS to us WHY Trump was speaking to the people he was; the WAY he was; and WHERE he was for two years - as it was when McCain chose Sarah Palin as his VP - to incite & manipulate the hearts & minds of religious conservatives whom they consider to be their most ardent supporters for the reasons I've listed in posts just previous to this.
Its just that they managed to get away with this stunt because it was hard to see over that extended period of time. Some people saw it ahead of time; but not all of us - and we didn't believe those who did because we BELIEVED that people could NOT actually be manipulated like this.
Talk about looking into a mirror and thinking it is someone else you are talking to.
We can debate the definitions of "stupid", "uneducated", "ignorant", or "white trash", until the very sexy, seductive, and full figured lady starts to sing, but there can be no doubt that Donald Trump is not qualified to be President. This is easy to understand:
Let's imagine that I would like to be an airline pilot, but I have never flown an airplane or a jet, except for computer simulations. But I am very sexy, well endowed, and have lot's of money. And so, I bought myself a new career. How many Trump supporters would feel comfortable being a passenger on my maiden voyage through the friendly skies? And if I don't crash it only further illustrates that the co-pilot ( insert "shadow government") is really the one running the show.
According exit polls Trump voters are mostly:
non college graduates
earning $50k +
residents of suburban and rural areas
in regular attendance at church
born in the US
concerned about immigration and terrorism (most important issues facing the country)
interested in candidates ability to bring change (quality that most mattered in the candidate)
supportive of undocumented immigrants being deported
supportive of a wall across US/Mexican border
interested in supreme court appointments (important, or most important factor in decision to vote)
not confident in the vote count
http://edition.cnn.com/election/results … /president
You forgot to add stupid, redneck, white trash, xenophobic Nazi.
Sounds like all descent and honest people. Except for the link to CNN of course.
There's nothing in that list that tells you whether the people surveyed are decent or indecent, honest or dishonest. It's just data. Any value judgements you take from it (positive and negative) are coming from your own preconceptions.
Wall Street bankers and politicians have jobs. Doesn't mean they are all honest and decent.
Quite a dilemma isn't it? Getting paid to protest or unemployed losers.
Someone who is retired is unemployed, but they could be financial secure and have a fulfilling life. Being unemployed doesn't make someone a loser.
Depends if her name is hillary. Maybe she voted fir trump? Cant trust anything CNN ssys..so
I heard Goofle gonna pull their ads from fake news sites
These riots were going to happen regardless of who won between Hilary and Trump. That's just reality. The only difference would've been who would be doing the rioting. All I know is that if this leads to a civil war, then count on ISIS to bomb us during that time because they're licking their chops, and waiting for that moment to happen, as CNN even did a story about how they were celebrating Trump's victory, as they hope we fall apart.
I hope to god that doesn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
I don't know. The right was pretty miffed when Obama took office. Were there riots? I don't remember any.
I hope we don't fall apart too but I blame all of this division on the politicians in Washington. They won't work together and all they do is insist if the other side would just fall in line behind them (both parties do it) everything would be honky dory. Look at where it has led us. Name calling and worse. Sooner or later we will have to accept that we have to stand together. We are in this shape because of Washington's refusal to work for the best interests of all citizens.
You're comparing what happened eight years ago to what's going on now in this country. It's not the same thing. Wake up. It would be like if you tried to compare what George Washington went through during his term to what Barrack Obama had to go through with his. it's not the same thing, as both inherited different sets of problems upon becoming president.
When Obama took office, there wasn't anywhere near the racial divide as there is now. Police brutality while always being a huge issue in this country was not nearly as big back then as it is now. black lives matter didn't exist back then, to shed light on it either, as they weren't founded until 2013.
Also if you listen to Trump during his campaign speeches, he definitely said the election was being freaking RIGGED. He said that. Yeah, I agree with him on that, but he never should've said that. He even went as far as to say that he would only accept the results if it meant he won. You do realize what that means right? It means that he was creating a situation that would've pissed off a lot of people if he had lost. Hell, on CNN and ABC, there were people that outright said they'd do ANYTHING to make sure Hilary never got to be president. When asked in further detail about it, they played off it being ambiguous and vague, but it was heavily implied they meant they were going to kill Hilary if that's what it took to take her out of office.
Plus, you have various white supremacist groups who have openly endorsed Trump, so you don't think they would've rioted if Trump didn't win?
The reality is these riots were going happen whether we wanted them to or not, as the only way they would've been avoided would've been if either a third party candidate like Gary Johnson or Jill Stein would've won, or if the democrats would've been SMART and nominated the one man that did deserve to win which was Bernie Sanders. Sadly, this is what we got. Now, it's up to Trump to fix this problem immediately because if this escalates any further, then ISIS could be bombing us fairly soon at our weakest moment.
Wow. I don't really agree that it is all that bad. Everyone runs their mouths pretty hard, on both sides, but we are not (or at least I hope not) on the verge of civil war. Unfortunately internet conversations are between a bunch of people who have evolved into a bunch of pansy know it alls who think if we somehow get into a position where people don't agree with us it is only because they are too dense to see facts. We do all need to stop, breath, give the opposition the benefit of believing they have valid reasons for feeling the way they do and try to find a compromise.
I can tell you in this corner of the country we are all OK with the fact that some voted for a guy that got elected and some voted for a woman who didn't. We aren't rioting and we aren't mad at each other. We are all pretty sure we know who and what we should be frustrated with and it isn't each other.
Yeah, but you can't assume that all areas in the US are exactly like the niche little area you live in, as not everyone is going to think the same way that you and your friends do. Sure, your friends and family might go, "Aww gee whiz. we lost" or whatever. But not everyone is going to think like that.
I think we all like to find things to fear. People are pretty much people, the world around.
Chin up. It isn't as bleak as you might believe.
As I told Don W, I'm just going to hope that Trump somehow becomes the president we need, even if he wasn't the one that we wanted at this point. That's all i can hope for. By the way, that stuff I told you about ISIS was reported by CNN, as they did celebrate Trump winning the election, which is kind of disturbing if you think about it.
What planet are you living on? The GOP didn't do anything like this? Like Bill O'Reilly declaring Obama's presidency a failure less than 90 days into his first term? Like the entire GOP declaring from the get-go that they wouldn't work with him?
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin … obamas-win
https://www.romper.com/p/why-comparing- … ting-22579
https://mediamatters.org/research/2012/ … -wa/191202
It doesn't take a lot of research to completely counter this point.
If you think that Obama's ideas were "far left", then you don't have the first idea what "far left" means!
And if your idea of Obama's presidency is centrist or anything other than quite far left , you have been diluted by your own fantasy idea of government , His presidency will go down as being left of left . To the point where- had there been a third term [clinton- sanders ] , America would be irretrievable from the dregs of socialism .
To understand the left in America , one must understand that telling lies over and over and over and over , make them ultimately reality if not true .
Or, maybe I simply don't know what it means to you. I think this election shows that they went farther left than a great deal of people were comfortable with. Many of them democrats.
Not all liberals are dangerous. A lot of us just sit home or go to work and accept it. That is me anyway. I am proud I voted for HIlary. A lot of far right Republicans are dangerous.
You really need to try and understand what a far left agenda would look like. It would include at least a few of the following:
The nationalization of all major industries
Government banks controlling investment and lending
An end to private property
Jobs for everyone (whether they liked it or not), with occupations decided by the state
Strict control of the media
Re-education for class enemies
Churches under licence or banned
Plus a load of other things.
Obama was a typical right wing liberal.
Your idea of the left and ours is a little different. Your idea of the left is not the over riding one in any conversation concerning American politics.
You are using 'far left' as a pejorative to attack Obama, but destroying any meaning the term might have.
These were some of Bernie Saunders proposals, as an illustration of a moderate left position:
Tackle income inequality with 10 per cent tax on the super rich. boost capital gains and estate taxes, crack down on untaxed income made abroad by US corporations. Use that money to fund large scale infrastructure programs and stuff like maternity/paternity programs, halving of college tuition fees.
Break up "too big to fail" financial institutions.
That is all to the left of Obama, but probably to the right of conservatives in a country like Germany.
If you perceive that as an attack, so be it. I don't have a lot against Obama; other than I do feel that if we are going to add costs to the budget we need to find cuts to counter it. We cannot simply spend more and more without finding ways to pay for it.
And your comment about left or right, depending on the country is pointless. We are talking about politics in America. Not in Great Britain, Germany or China. If we were having a discussion on international politics it might have been pertinent.
My main concern in this issue is that the meanings of words get some respect. The notion that Obama is 'far left' even within the narrow spectrum of US politics is just absurd.
No, Obama wasn't "far left" even though he did force through the biggest single giveaway in the history of the world.
But neither can he be considered "right" at all. Not the tiniest bit, not in America. What other countries consider right or left doesn't seem pertinent - it's like saying Britain is far, far right because it doesn't operate like N. Korea.
'Right' and 'left' come from the French revolution, translated into English and broadly understood in the English speaking world within the context of Anglo-American scholarship and political science.
Neo-liberalism, the current economic consensus is a revival and reformulation of the classical ideas of UK economists, mainly by US scholars.
Whether you like it not, the US is part of the Western tradition of thought and words have broadly similar meaning within that tradition, wherever you are.
'Far left' can be authoritarian communism or some kind of Utopian socialism in the heads of dreamers, but it ain't Barack Obama.
"'Right' and 'left' come from the French revolution, translated into English and broadly understood in the English speaking world within the context of Anglo-American scholarship and political science. "
Right. And when the "right" and "left" swapped places in American politics it never happened because the French Revolution defined the terms for all countries in all situations, times and political climates. Come on, Will - you know better than that! That's much like saying that "chips" are defined as deep fried, fresh soft lengths of potato because the British want them to be that instead of the more commonly accepted flat, packaged, hard slices of potato that the British renamed "crisps".
I would think that you might have a little respect for the American usage of these terms within a conversation limited to American politics.
Now, I may call him far left when someone else might call him something else. But, I do consider some of the things he has done far left.
lol. It was nothing to do with American usage. It is your usage.
American attitudes to politics have their own local flavor. This is one stab at exploring that stuff: http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/26/ … attitudes/
But the actual terminology of the various political arrangements and approaches available to politicians are pretty narrow and constrained.
Out of interest how would you describe communism (or social democracy) for that matter, now that you have blown 'far left' on Obama? Is there anywhere left on the political spectrum for someone like Noam Chomsky? Or Vladimir Lenin?
Having never read anything on Chomsky I couldn't comment. Lenin was a totalitarian communist. that isn't left or right to me, in terms of American politics and where we want to move as a nation.
If your primary beef with me is that I'm not using a term in a manner which you like we really don't have a major problem here. You can either ask me what I mean or just stop fretting about it and think of something else. Because, honestly, I consider this to be a really petty thing to attempt to create a disagreement over
Here - have a bag of crisps. It'll make you feel better.
Just a note on why Obama is just a typical right wing liberal.
The Trans-Pacific Partnership was about Obama's pivot to Asia, i.e. it was about US power in Asia. Ordinary people would have suffered as jobs were lost but anyone with money to invest would have done very well, and China would have been contained.
Obama never inconvenienced the wealthy with tax hikes in the way that Saunders wanted to.
Obama made corporate welfare a higher priority than any measures for the disadvantaged.
He did useful work on climate change but that is not really a left or right issue, even in the US.
He made a half hearted stab at affordable health care but settled for enriching the health corporations at everyone's expense.
He promised change but bowed to power at every showdown.
Anyway, I recommend evening classes. Get to know the world that you live in.
From a guy who can't even remember who said what, and then attacks the wrong person about something someone else said I'd say evening classes would be a waste of money for you. You might forget which classroom you were supposed to go to and get the subject you wanted to study too muddled to remember.
But, as to your list.
Who is Saunders? We don't have anyone who ran for president by that name. Is that a British politician? If so, why would I even be interested in the comparison?
I don't so much believe he made corporate welfare a priority. If you are talking about the bail out that money was allocated for use prior to his inauguration. If you are talking about the EXIM that was in existence well before he took office.
Has he done useful work on climate change? I suppose so. But, you are right that has little to do with left or right.
Health care was a bitch. But, I will say that it is a left philosophy to believe the government has the right to force a person to do something which is not specifically detailed in any part of the constitution as to being their right to do so.
He promised a change. OK. But, you do understand that we don't have kings and queens on this side of the pond? He is one branch of our federal government. He is not a god or a dictator. Two branches must concur and a third must look to the constitution to ensure they have that right.
Thanks Will, for explaining what "far Left" means. At best, most candidates we see in Presidential elections are moderates.
Trump is dangerous. He is a good businessman, and he may say he's choosing all good businessmen or women for his cabinet. But he's choosing all of the richest people, people who worked for Goldman Sachs, and now he won't put his businesses in a blind trust. We still have not seen his financial statements, and never will.
We never had a President with his wealth or name splattered on skyscrapers all over the world. His family can't take over the businesses, because Trump will have too much world info and his wealth will grow from that. It's impossible to separate the two.
And he won't even read a daily briefing on world affairs. They have offered to give it to him in tweets if that's the extent of his attention span. Seriously. I think it's scary and his worship of Putin is too.
Yep, the US just elected a mix of the privately wealthy and technocrats to govern (though I doubt many voters were aware that this would be the result).
Hardly, 'government of the people, for the people',
Also this: according to a recent YouGov poll, 29% of American of voters would support a military takeover. A minority, 41%, said they could not.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 … d-vote-yes
How bad can all this get?
The military takeover part is really scary. We can see how nation building and taking out dictators led to worse dictators.
I realize Hillary would have chosen all rich people too, but at least she had the experience of working with a lot of Republicans and would have been able to get stuff done. Maybe Trump will, but his chances would be better if he picked a few who understand how Washington works. It's like any other job, you have to learn their way of doing things. He may be the CEO, but he has to answer to a lot of Boards, in his language.
I don't think he'll mess with social issues too much, having once been a Democrat and having lived in NY all his life.
"It's like any other job, you have to learn their way of doing things."
Didn't you get the message? The one from millions upon millions of voters? Washington's "way of doing things" is not acceptable. We're tired of dishonesty, illegal activities, lying, cheating, putting the politician above the population, etc. We demand honest, caring leaders carrying out the will of the people, and demand that Trump provide that rather than doing the same old things.
I did get the message, it's about jobs and people feeling left out, the disappearing middle class. But I don't see anyone demanding or getting much info we already need from him. He lied so much and never gave real facts about many things, and got away with it in his frenzied rallies. That whole "Lock her Up!" was beneath a decent person. He won't be any better. He has to separate his companies and holdings from his Presidency, although I think actually the President isn't required to. But since he has business relationships with so many countries, more than any President before, it's difficult. Look how much he affected the stock market lately. I don't think he should sell what took all his life to build, and he is obviously unwilling to put his holdings in a blind trust. But he's showing us he isn't willing to make any concessions. It's not HIS country like it is HIS Trump Organization. That's all I'm saying.
Trump is showing no interest in getting briefings, and there are certain ways of communicating with the other branches of government, and he's not making any effort. Jobs won't just appear if he doesn't know how a bill becomes a law, or how to begin a process within the gov't. to get the changes he wants to install. He's throwing it all on Pence.. There are protocols in Washington, everyone isn't going to come to Trump Tower to talk to him like the ridiculous display he's been putting on as he chooses his cabinet. (maybe he remembers how a bill becomes a law from Sesame Street)
Are you saying Trump is a model of moral probity, a fearless cleanser of the sins of greed, duplicity and the pursuit of self-aggrandizement?
"We demand honest, caring leaders carrying out the will of the people, and demand that Trump provide that rather than doing the same old things."
What makes you think that Trump is a caring leader and will provide all those new approaches you people keep rattling on about? Why should he care about what You demand? He never has, you know.
Apparently pretty bad if YouGov, a paid survey site, is now a reference source.
Why don't you tell me, GA, what sources beyond the standard right wing rags are acceptable to you as valid sources of information? I would like to get keen on this in advance.
YouGov is what it is and The Guardian does a good job of explaining the strengths and limitations of online polling.
edit: could not help myself, took a look at polling accuracy for the recent election:
YouGov was middling. About 0.5 per cent inaccurate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon … 971acd6016
Peaceful protests are fine. Its the riots, violence, burning American flags, property damage, starting forest fires or buildings on fire, obscenities of all kinds, utter disrespect for anyone who doesn't agree with them that is so wrong on many levels. All funded by George Soros.
And, where are the voices of reason from Democrat leaders saying, "Your all idiots, stop being idiots. Now!"?
Funny thing is they interviewed millenials at one of the protest and most of them didn't vote. Apparently they are mad because they should have been handed what they want without them having to put any effort into getting it. Although, they don't appear to mind the effort of breaking in bank windows, smashing up cars and throwing molotov cocktails at the police.
They did not vote because HC was uninspiring and wasn't zealous enough about the issues they were concerned about.
The "them not voting" point is a really good one. They should teach them the definition of irony because not voting means they effectively voted for Trump. While they have the right to protest, they're no better than the people they're protesting against and, in many cases, probably worse. If you abdicate your responsibility as a citizen by not voting, then you should shut the hell up.
Considering the options we were presented with I can understand not wanting to waste the time. But I agree. Don't vote, don't belly ache about the outcome.
I can understand feeling like little would change either way, but the people who are protesting may have had the power to change the result (unless they were all from the same state, in which case they should be protesting the electoral college).
wrenchBiscuit Delivers More Medicine and Correction
If the vote mattered you would have a valid argument. As it stands the vote in a presidential election is simply a means of reinforcing the grand fiction that we are living in a free democratic republic, when in truth we are living in an oppressive Imperialist Oligarchy. Voting in a presidential election and participating in government is the absolute worst thing anyone can do. Presidents are decided by a wealthy ruling elite, not by the peasantry. Is Dream On" by Aerosmith your favorite song? One of my favorite songs was recorded by George Jones. It's called "The Cold Hard Truth".
These" protesters " are not protesting anything political , with any amount of knowledge about voting choices , This is NOTHING BUT wilding out by a young and ill informed people choosing to riot for any reason and for no reason at all ! They are THUGS , They deserve nothing but the best the authorities can let loose on them from water cannons , tear gas , stun guns , batons and arrests ,
Put it all on their criminal records so they can never acquire a federal job , never vote , never own a firearm and always pay for their acts of thuggery and social defiance.
I think its the music. They get all hopped up on that Bieber or some wrapper. I dont know what theyre preaching down there at Aeropostale but as GM suggested they are becoming radicalized.
Their sensitive emotions are on display. Their displays reveal minds of fluff: no knowledge of history, philosophy or social science. Which is not surprising since who wants to study those things when you are teenager/ young adult still being a kid, looking for fun? and who tries to reach the kids? Who brings these topics to light in a significant way invoking thought and logic through interest? High school teachers? college professors? No, the quest for giving and receiving grades, unfortunately, trumps all.
outshine, outclass, upstage, put in the shade, eclipse, surpass, outdo, outperform; beat, better, top, cap; be a cut above, be head and shoulders above, leave standing.
One of the saddest, most disgusting things I've ever seen as Mom kicks a little boy out of his home because he voted "Trump" in his schools "election". First caught it on the FB page Michelle Obama for 2020. https://www.facebook.com/MichelleObamaF … mp;fref=nf
I will add that I do consider all liberals who strongly identify themselves as such are as much a danger to the continuation of our freedoms in this country as I do the far right. Both are attempting to shove their beliefs down the throats of the rest of us. Both are causing a strain on our economy by out of control spending and both are attempting to micromanage our lives.
Then I look forward to seeing your new thread entitled, 'Dangerous Conservatives."
Oddly, I began this thread simply to lament the fact that the protests against the election were violent. So, if the conservatives start violent protests I'll do such.
But, the reason I said that is that I was thinking about how the left is attempting to bemoan this election for something other than what I believe the vast majority of us saw. You all, and yes you all, continue to insist it was about racism, misogyny and a lack of ability to think. The majority of liberals appear to believe that the election points to something sinister in America. That bothers me. To no small end. That you could look down on your fellow Americans in such a way is no different than what I perceive as the ignorance of the right.
I am beginning to believe that those of us who feel left on the outside to such an extent that we cannot align with either party truly do need to form a union into a third party. So that we can better reflect the values most of us hold. Which appear to be a combination of liberal and conservative views. Although this election swung Republican across the board I don't think it shows a hard lean to agreement with the Republican platform. It simply meant that the Democrats had been given the opportunity to show America what they could do and few were impressed with the results.
There is some merit to what you say and there is some merit to what we say. If over 70% of Republicans doubt that Obama was born in the U. S., can you blame some of us for wondering if many of them are making decisions from an ill-informed position?
If 40% of Trump voters believe whites are a superior race AND they vote for a candidate who spouts racist rhetoric, AND said candidate draws the under educated white vote in record numbers, can you blame us for wondering if racism and lack of accurate information is a major factor in Trump's victory? Not the only factor but a significant factor.
Can you blame some of us for wondering?
Well, I don't know that any of that is true. Because a poll said it was doesn't reflect anything,. To me. I've never heard anyone imply that whites were superior and I hear people talking politics all day long in the restaurant. So I do, honestly, believe that you want to believe something negative about others and therefor you do.
As to doubting if Obama was born in America it wasn't just Republicans who questioned that. Wasn't there a democrat in Pennsylvania who claimed to have had proof from his paternal grandmother? Either way. I'm not so certain someone who believes we are all racist, misogynistic, xenophobic Nazis should question one belief held by another segment of society and I doubt the segment is as large as you are stating.
But, your questions bring up another question I've been mulling around. Do you think the polls are true attempts to reflect the thoughts of the populace? I'm not sure I do. Not after this election.
Again, you said I think "all" when I clearly said "some."
Polls are useful tools but are fallible tools that should be used with caution. In the case of this election, I think Clinton would have won if the vote had been taken right before the Comey letter came out. The polls didn't have enough time to mirror the impact of that development, which was combined wth a 3-4 week stretch of Donald staying on message like a good little boy. That's my theory but it's just a theory and I could be wrong.
You know, Panther, I think that Hillary's defeat was more involved than just the Comey problem. Why were the adverse effects felt so strongly in just the industrial Midwest? This is the region that is most responsible for her defeat. I think she made a mistake as the reason this region is distinctive is the rust best scenario and the dearth of jobs. She took the region for granted. Clinton still appeared to be on the wrong side of a solution to the economic morass of the region and did not listen hard enough.
I'm not saying it was the only key to her loss, but I think it dampened turnout among some of her lukewarm supporters.
I agree she didn't cater to those under educated white voters enough. They felt dismissed, even if their feeling is not an accurate reflection of reality.
You quoted 40 percent and 70 percent, respectively. Instead of judging the world through observation and personal experience you appear to prefer being spoon fed opinions. All I would ask is that we all remember that every unfair negative judgment creates another. Is scrambling to sate a desire to feel superior in our collective best interest?
I prefer to use evidence in addition to personal experience to form my personal opinions. I have plenty of personal experience with Trump voters but that is anecdotal and I would be remiss to assume that limited experience is an accurate reflection of the majority of Trump voters.
As for the rest, methinks you ought to look in the mirror. At least if I offer an opinion backed up by data, it is more than just my opinion.
Evidence is fine but one has to not be led into belief. Hillary voters in our area made bizarre comments such as Trump would send them back to slavery. I did wonder who would believe such and who would put such ideas in their heads. Although I found them to be indicative of a lack of ability to discern truth from fiction I didn't choose to look down on them or use that to make broad generalizations about democratic voters, but it appears the democrats do not attempt to be so kind to those who don't see things eye to eye with them.
Instead of snubbing those who we feel hold ridiculous beliefs we would be ahead by giving them the benefit of attempting to understand how they have come to them. No American wants to fear their neighbor or their government.
I'm sorry, that all sounds very nice and maybe you really believe you are behaving in this noble fashion, but please re-read some of your responses to people on these forums who expressed fear of a Trump presidency in the last few days.
You'd have to point me to a particular post but I will say that if a costumer approached me to let me know they considered me to be an uneducated,,misogynistic and xenophobic Nazi I'd engage. With a measure less courtesy than I do when attempting to understand why people fear nonsense. One has wrongly accused me. The other, they've simply stated a fear and are looking for some type of support.
"I didn't choose to look down on them or use that to make broad generalizations about democratic voters, but it appears the democrats do not attempt to be so kind to those who don't see things eye to eye with them"
Let me explain what just happened in that sentence. You praised yourself for not making broad generalizations about democratic voters, then made a broad generalization about "democrats" who, you say, make broad generalizations.
I have come to the conclusion that either you are a genius and do this just to mess with people, or you are totally unaware of the meaning of your words. Either way, I'm impressed.
Now hold on a minute Margaret, let me see that paper again.
"Over 70% percent of Republicans doubt that Obama was born in the U.S.?"
Did you think about that for a minute. That's 7 out of 10. Do you really believe that? Think of your local circle, are their really only three of your husband in every ten Republicans you know? Ok, wait, let me qualify that. Just your husband's political views not the other stuff.
Even the PPP, (Public Policy Polling), survey that I found to be the source link for several articles to that point only reported 59%, and it was talking about leaning-Trump respondents. Then, further down through a listing of each of the poll questions, it reported the number to be 30%. What's up with that?
Of course your readings might not have included PPP sourced material. But the point stands - did those numbers cause you to dig deeper to confirm them?
Or did you mean to say Trump voters?
And that 40% number, did you check on that? I found numbers as low as 16%, but I didn't check the source - just the Google headline. Considering the bluntness of PPP poll questions, (as representing polling efforts); "Do you favor hemorrhoids or Donald Trump?"; I can just imagine the poll question for that 40% response.
I mean, those are pretty significant numbers. Your use of them certainly prompted me to take a look. I found several articles making similar claims as yours - but each sourced that one PPP survey. I didn't go any deeper, so there may be other polls to verify their results... but Geesh! did you look at the poll questions and survey numbers? Didn't you get at least a beep from your bias detector?
Here ya go: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-el … ?cid=sm_tw
And yes, when I think of Republicans I know personally, it is not terribly surprising to me. My Facebook feed used to be littered with photoshopped images accompanied by ridiculous statements. I say "used to be" because I have systematically told the Facebook Feed Fairy that I really don't want to see anything from Infowars, Breitbart or Christian Times to name a few. Even so, the occasional lovely nugget gets through. Today's gem is that Obama is going to pardon Clinton, complete with unflattering bug-eyed photo of Clinton recolored in dark, surly undertones. My cousin, who is a Republican, is apparently not aware that Clinton has not been convicted of a crime and therefore cannot be pardoned. Yesterday, it was a photo of Clinton in prison orange being escorted to jail with a giant "LOCK HER UP" caption. That one was from bikers4trump. My brother-in-law is a biker. He still thinks Obama is going to fake some kind of attack so he can declare martial law.
This was the most recent survey I heard about, which is why I used those numbers. They were fresh in my mind.. Yes, I am aware that multiple surveys have returned vastly different numbers and I agree that 70% is on the high end. But, really, whether it's 40 or 70, they're both ridiculously high numbers.
And, yes, I did read the actual survey questions but no I did not delve much deeper than that. To me, this is just like the spate of surveys that showed Fox News viewers to be the most ill-informed compared to viewers of other networks. Yes, several surveys had different percentages but all had the same basic result. People didn't like that conclusion either.
Edited to add: My husband's cousin, who is an extreme conservative living in Alaska, just shared this: http://christiantimesnewspaper.com/clinton-divorce/
And he has a college degree. And, no, Hillary has not filed for divorce.
Your first mistake - ? Using face-book as the main source of vetting to chose a leader ! Time to put , politically , on your big girl pants .
The demoralization of American leftist is quite an enigma. You can show them pictures and videos of violent mobs burning, destroying, and looting, and the social justice morons will literally make up every excuse imaginable in order to justify it.
Once upon a time ; Do We all remember that kid next door that got everything he wanted on his birthday or at Christmas ? Had all the latest big yellow Tonka Toy trucks , from a pacifier in their mouth until he was nine years old to their first brand new car before they had a drivers license - Everything simply handed to them from the beginning , every time they had their wailing temper tantrum ?
When they grew up they became the new liberals and rioted frequently .
Somethings look like they are getting better real fast!
I feel safer and more secure already.
Blocks of anti-Trump protest buses caught on tape, in this case Chicago.
* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-1 … aught-tape
There is a video of cops charging protesters on Zero Hedge in Organ. They were firing non lethal bullets, guns a blazing. Holly crap, that would hurt!
That is exactly what the protesters [rioters ]needed !
I'm still waiting. Obama met with Trump at the White House last Thursday and said that it was his priority is to ensure a smooth transition so that Trump’s presidency is successful.
It is a responsibility for Hillary Clinton, Imama Obama and other Democratic leaders to calm their supporters. They need to hear them say, ‘This man is our president.’ Over and over again if necessary, or is that too much to ask? People are getting hurt, and some are gaining criminal records.
I'd love to see the water canons come out, but its got to stop.
This kind of explains the mentally of the radical liberal babies. Its funny in a sad way.
A short clip from and old Andy Griffin show.
* https://www.facebook.com/TheComicalCons … 376992108/
It is absolutely boorish and naïve' of so many people to pigeonhole the Trump voters , after all , isn't it a liberal custom to remain open minded and fair about life . But then , you must all label the victors as racists , bigots , etc...............I wouldn't expect much less !
I'm afraid I haven't met many liberals who are fair minded, open and honest. Once they chose a label for themselves they lose that ability.
If they met your qualifications for 'fair minded' then they would be liberals no longer.
Where did it say anything about "racists" and "bigots" in that list? Just because someone is concerned about immigration, that doesn't make them racist. Just because someone goes to church, that doesn't make them a bigot. That's a massively unfair generalization on your part.
And yet it seems to. Trump is a racist because he wants to shut down illegals entering the country. He is even a racist because he (correctly) indicates there are Mexican criminals in our country, and there is nothing whatsoever about race in that observation or the one about illegal aliens!
You cannot categorically conclude on the basis of that list, that the people surveyed are racists. If you interpret the data that way, then that interpretation is coming from you. The conclusion that Trump is racist is not based on a single answer on a survey.
I don't think Trump is a racist. i just think he's an idiot. Big difference. However, I'm just hoping for the best right now, and I hope Trump becomes the president that we desperately need, even if he's not the one that we wanted....at least I didn't want him...
That's nothing but racist propaganda. And promoting such a fiction is nothing less than an outrage! There are more native born "white" criminals than any other variety. More mass school shootings have been perpetrated by white males, more cops are killed by white males, and more women are raped by white males. If they deport any group, based on the facts and figures it should be white males back to Europa.
Here is an excerpt from my most excellent and insightful Hub entitled "Vote TRUMP In 2016_ An Anarchist's Perspective":
"...This particular argument concerning violence perpetrated by illegal immigrants is remarkable. A recent study published by the American Immigration Council and authored by three professors of sociology and anthropology using information gathered from the U.S. Census states that "roughly 1.6 percent of immigrant males aged 18-36" are behind bars in the U.S. compared to 3.3 percent of the corresponding group of native-born American males. Since the 1980's native-born incarceration rates have been "two to five times higher than those of so-called "illegal immigrants". To further illustrate, the Arizona Department of Corrections will tell you that about 90 percent of those in its custody are U.S citizens, and about 10 percent are "criminal aliens," a category that also includes those who are here legally. On Arizona's Death Row, out of 118 convicted murderers, there is only one Mexican national. The long story short, approx.97.5% of inmates on Arizonas death row are native born U.S. citizens..."
Then the world's greatest genocide in human history continues on the true American indigenous people.
I don't believe in capital punishment of death. To kill someone for killing or other crimes are Hippocrates. The British and American empires have predominantly in history gone after brown skin tribes and nations because they are people of the power of earth and spirit. Where Whites are creation and fire that have abuse their gifts of power the most.
We must find a way to share power or we will destory our own human species. The way how things are going, other earthlings are better off without us.
I agree that not only the lion's share of immigrants are peaceful people looking for a better life for themselves and their families but we cannot ignore the fact that there is terrorism in our world. And, we cannot forget that foreign organizations would like to perpetuate violence on innocent citizens in our country. We can argue until the cows come in on how best to protect our citizens, without negatively affecting our ability to help these people, but the bottom line remains that we have to have some type of workable system in effect to attempt to wean these individuals out of the potential immigration ranks.
As to our southern neighbors, we also have the right to attempt to ensure that negative elements are not included in the influx.
Your figures on white crime are interesting but I think if we look at crimes proportionate to population estimates then white crime in the areas you mentioned would be no higher than the crimes committed by minorities, for their percentage of the population. In some instances, white crime is less than its proportionate share. Either way, I don't think it does us any good to look at the color of one's skin to determine if one person is more dangerous than another. There are factors which figure more prominently into the equation of why a person turns to a life of crime than their skin tone.
Proportionate figures are irrelevant when we consider the racist rhetoric that has amplified the spurious threat of crime among illegal immigrants. How so? Imagine that there are only 100 illegal Mexicans in the whole United States. Now imagine that half of those illegals are criminals. Wow! Now we are looking at a figure of 50%. However great that proportion may seem, we must put that proportion into the proper perspective. Considering the population of the United States is over 300 million people, in such a scenario even a percentage of 50% is hardly cause for alarm.
The estimated 1.6% of 11 million who are incarcerated hardly signifies a crime wave among illegal aliens. We must also understand that out of that 1.6% many are not incarcerated for violent crimes. And so we can realize that the violent criminals are far less than 1%. Racist's use proportions and percentages, minus perspective, to create fear among the population and to demonize illegal immigrants. This serves several useful purposes for various entities. Primarily it serves to shift the focus away from government and corporate corruption, and the fleecing of taxpayers by miscreant politicians, banks, and evil corporations like Gov.Rick Snyder,Monsanto, Nestle, and Energy Transfer Partners. These are the major criminals and racketeers. It is absurd to suggest that solving the illegal immigration issue will significantly affect the crime rate or greatly improve the standard of living for the poor and the working class.
The illegal immigrant is simply a convenient scapegoat. After 500 years of evil, and after 250 years as a nation, America and the United States have apparently not learned anything at all. The universe was here before us. The universe does not operate with commodities, money, a stock exchange, and world governments. This type of world system is not our natural state. We have been enslaved and made to believe that this is the only way. And in a sense that is true. This is the only way to perpetual servitude, but it is not the way to freedom.
By the way, the people of Flint Michigan still don't have clean water. Many children have been damaged for life. Many may also die as a result. Donald Trump has said nary a word about arresting Rick Snyder for poisoning an entire U.S. city. It is remarkable that if an Islamic group had poisoned an entire U.S. city we all know that the Trump campaign, and every Billy Bob from New York to California would have been screaming murder from the rooftops. But instead, these morons are focusing on poor people from south of the border who are simply trying to feed their families. Yes, the election of Donald Trump is quite sickening. It is truly sickening because in spite of my usual anti-American rhetoric, I have secretly hoped that I was wrong about the American mainstream. But today I find no joy in the realization that I have been right all along.
And? Is that supposed to be a smoking gun or just FYI? Regardless, for those who may interpret it to be the former, I will provide valuable insight to compliment that hot cup of coffee and jelly donut many of you plus size Hubbers are enjoying this morning. An individual worth 100 million dollars should certainly be more aware of how rich people think and what rich people do than Joe Blow who works at the local Deli and brings home a whopping $19,000 a year! Of course a rich person would be more of an authority concerning the character and machinations of wealthy people.
I would trust Jodie Foster to give a more accurate picture than a mere peasant who voted for Donald Trump, and who is now waiting with baited breath for that $15 minimum wage. Gee, with that kind of cash a person could mortgage a house, buy a car, and go to Las Vegas at least once every 30 years. Yeah! Donny is gonna make it real great for all you guys. Just wait and see.
Isnt Foster an atheist and in your often written assessment is a meat puppet devoid of any spirituality? Regardless, if I were to use a quote about people that amass wealth are creators of poverty Id try to find someone that didnt have 100 million dollars. I cant afford jelly donuts. Foster is hoarding all my money. According to her anyway.
I haven't kept up with Jodie so I'll have to take your word that she is an atheist. With that in mind: We can say a meat puppet is a soulless human being, but that wouldn't be accurate since in order to qualify as a human being one must possess a soul. I don't mean this in a derogatory sense but a true atheist is better classified as a sub-human. That doesn't necessarily imply atheists are "bad" people, evil, or even greedy. I am sure there have always been many kind hearted and altruistic atheists here in the Earth.
In order to better understand, think of a pet dog or cat. Most of us love them dearly, and it would break our hearts should they get hit by a car, eaten alive by a ravenous raccoon, or carried off into the sky by a hungry hawk. I digress: As a matter of fact, one evening several years ago while I was having a rum and coke at a Tiki Bar before a performance, I saw a woman sitting near me who was crying. I asked her why she was crying and she informed me that she had let her small dog out in the backyard before going out for the evening. Normally she said that she watched the dog until he/she was done with it's business. However, this time she left the dog alone and then went inside the house for a few minutes. The moment she returned to the backyard she saw a hawk swoop down and grab her little dog and fly away with the poor animal in it's grip of death.
But anyway, the meat puppet is no less worthy of love and affection than a dog or a cat. They have been designed to perform various roles in society and are very important. Unfortunately, when they die they are simply dead, never to be resurrected in the spirit or the flesh. This is why they don't believe in God. I feel their disbelief is actually a blessing from God. It would be quite cruel and sadistic to allow such soulless creatures to believe in an eternal life when for them this life is the alpha and the omega.
If Jodie is a meat puppet then I hope she has the best possible life and even doubles her fortune. Since I am immortal, I could care less about material wealth and riches, as compared to my life, such matters are fleeting and quite trivial.
But I stand by my choice of Jodie Foster as a window to the rich. Although I have great admiration for people like Mother Theresa, she would be the last person I would speak to about the very rich. She lived among the poor for most of here life. I would go to her if I wanted to know about the perspective and character of people who live in abject poverty.
So, it doesnt have anything to do with a country that has a history of drought off and on for centuries. Or say, the region lacks adequate food sources in general that expends alot of time and effort for basic survival as opposed to acquiring any personal wealth. Or places hit hard by reoccuring natural disasters or epidemics current or historical. Or perhaps a country given to alot of drug trade that breeds violence and corruption as potential reasons for poverty. The starlet of the movie "Nell" said it was because of rich people hoarding wealth.Wealthy people cause poverty. Its as simple as that.
Hey, Phoenix are you a Star Trek fanatic? Maybe we need to open a new category? Love the screen shots from the Wrath of Khan.
Of course it's that simple! After all, the rich take all their money and stuff their mattress with it, then shut down the printing presses so no more can be made. They certainly don't spend it on cars, boats or mansions and the don't start or expand businesses with it. They don't even take it to Vegas to gamble with (providing jobs for employees there), and there is no such thing as a high roller.
Yes, I'm afraid it is both quite simple and quite complicated. Identifying the enemy and the motive is quite simple But their methods of dividing and controlling the populace are insidious and complex. But understanding what I know is well within the reach of anyone who has a willingness to learn about this evil system that has enslaved men and women of all races and nationalities.
In spite of the fact that many of you want to make light of what I say, I am as angry about how whites have been exploited, enslaved , and murdered by the system as any other race. The primary issue I have with white working class Americans is that they have been suckered by the government and people like Trump into believing that they are "free", and that they are the architects of their own destiny. But nothing could be further from the truth. To vote for an American President is a vote for perpetual servitude to a ruling elite.
Trump supports $10 minimum wage, still not a living wage . Still companies will continues to go for cheaper countries wages and less environment requirements.
I dont want a piece of paper that says 10 on it. I wanna loaf of bread I can trade a very small piece of silver for. Inflation is evil.
Housing, silver and gold have kept step with inflation. Where basic cost of living has gone up 10 times from when I was a young man and wages very little. GEO wages went from 25times higher than average to wages to 450 times greater. Americans can not say Zionist greedy. They can say Islamic terrorist at their tip of their tongues. While that has nothing to with America false flag worldwide or their problems.
You sound like you will be one of the ones watching from Canada until the next swing of the pendulum .
Jodie , Not that pretty , not that smart , just another celeb hypocrite .
Just wait till communist China has control over the six major movie studios in Hollywood. The propaganda will be astounding. I know you remember Jane Fonda and her dirty deeds. Well, Donald Sutherland, is right up there with George Soros. Sutherland is a Canadian, who says he is ashamed of being white...aw, it gets even crazier. But, you get the idea. ... We see the effects of years of cultural and social engineering by the world communist party to bring down the West. And, they love to use their rich celebrity minions. Follow the money!
Sutherland said Americans great hero are villains like Jesse James or Columbus. Where Canada hero's are Royal Mounted police.
Mounted Police always get their man, unfortunately today most often it is the wrong man growing plants and driving to work and play.
The Royals tried everything thing they could to get me to snitch on a pot grow-opp. They told they me they will give me felony record that will harm me for life.
I told them GW Bush fired me from US green card for not sculpting a war theme Trump tried unionized my sculptors yet failed. Now the Royals want to give me a criminal for not snitching on a horticulturist.
About 30% of the livelyhood of a BC town was made from cannabis. The world's most useful and important plant is where I draw the line. Royal said well...Bring it On!!!
From having 10 of millions of fans I knew how to draw in the light from the media since BC are the greatest users of pot in the world.
The Moral of story is, I won. Never try to destory a man who won't back down from Bush or Trump and who is a truth warrior.
Truth lives long term, lies live short.
Jodie looks pretty and act smart to me, maybe not a Trump 10.
She, being an an atheist and married lesbian would put her on the dumb side for most male Christian Trump voters.
Oh god. Not that pretty? Are you Donald? What do her looks have to do with anything?
I hate to tell you this but if we knew, for a fact, that 50% of people immigrating from a particular country would end up being criminals that would be, in my mind, cause enough to stop immigration from that particular country until we could figure out how to keep that 50% out.
Racist's use proportions and percentages, minus perspective, to create fear? Your words. Note that your words also attempted to use percentages to imply whites were more violent and dangerous. Does that make you a racist?
I would agree that immigration is being used as a scapegoat but your use of the word 'evil' is silly and emotionally charged. America is not evil, unless you also state that the entire world is. Policies which have been abolished as being inhumane were no different than policies within any society of the time. Our society has consistently moved in the direction of being more and more inclusive.
Flint Michigan is a travesty and I think we would agree that everyone who knew what was going on, as well as those who allowed this to happen should be incarcerated for a very long time. However, I have heard your ideas on what would be a perfect and free society and I find them not only unworkable but laughable, since you do hope to be perceived as a deep thinker. And, honestly, to post a picture of a rich woman bemoaning the behavior of the rich is strange. Or, are you just trying to showcase hypocrisy?
Free and safety comes in degree, America is no longer the high degree, surrounded by greed.
Or like stated in Foster poster.
I would submit that Foster is apparently part of the greed you appear to be bemoaning.
I once earn millions and Foster has made even more million yet who needs to make billions.
Nothing wrong in making lots of money that is Capitalism. Corporatism is the world's greatest lie and most harmful to all earthlings. Control this greedy disease you control poverty toward our greatest killer also grestest killer to nature.
The truth and danger of the liberals fight and infighting , is that they actually have -O- for a future political mission statement . They never have ,1960-s I remember my youth and my naiveté in listening , believing , wanting and dreaming of a better nation , but liberals are mostly about discourse alone and that is all they are about . They cannot ever agree on one group thing or thought , in all of my independent and political experience I have deduced that the quintessential new -liberal has a mind of milk-toast , a dream scape of entitlement , a vision of extreme near-sightedness .
Fight on people - the battle itself is all there is .
In South Korea they have been protesting for 2 weeks against President Park... long corruption story... won't get into it... but guess when they protest. According to some Korean students, they protest on the weekends. Can you guess why? ... BECAUSE THEY HAVE JOBS!
Obama beat a reasonable adult. That is not the case here. People voted for his opponent because of political differences. People voted for Trump because of anger and fear. Whatever happens next, those people are responsible. And this is only the beginning. Votes have consequences - even if you hold your nose while you cast them.
A peaceful protest accomplishes nothing and only further empowers and emboldens the opposition..
Election Fraud in Detroit Looks 'Organized, and Government Involved'...in favor of Hillary the war-hawk...oh, but the Russians did it. I swear the entities in Washington DC and Detroit are taking their orders from the son-of-satan himself, George Soros.
* https://pjmedia.com/election/2016/12/14 … -involved/
That deceitful bunch really thought they were going to be able to pull off this election fraud. Thanks to Jill Stein for wanting the recounts, who we all know now as nothing but another communist operative for the same evil rulers.
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Seriously ?And when they do , They all react the same .
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