jump to last post 1-36 of 36 discussions (223 posts)

Trump Says Flag Burners Should Face Consequences

  1. Sychophantastic profile image81
    Sychophantasticposted 9 days ago

    Do you think burning the United States flag should be illegal?

    Donald Trump says that those who burn the American flag should face consequences. Do you agree?

    I do. Those who burn the American flag should be deported or put in jail. Burning the American flag is a crime against our country. It's un-American and shows that you hate America. If you hate America, then you shouldn't be American and, like Donald Trump suggests, you should lose your citizenship.

    This would rid our country of a lot of communists and socialists. You can't make America great again and allow people to burn our flag at the same time.

    What do you think?

    1. Don W profile image83
      Don Wposted 9 days ago in reply to this

      Burning the flag is a form of expression and is protected under the First Amendment. Some people may not like it, and they are entitled to express their dislike of it, but upholding the Constitution is more important than people's personal dislike of burning the flag.

      Just like the right to bear arms is protected under the Second Amendment. I might not like firearms, and I'm free to express my dislike of firearms (and often do), but upholding the Constitution is more important than my personal dislike of firearms.

      1. ahorseback profile image45
        ahorsebackposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        The difference is enforcing existing law rather than ignoring the offenses ,flags or guns.
        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13299185.png
        Perhaps too much leeway for free speech liberties -  Keep the  supreme courts out of state law ?

      2. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        +1

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

          +
          Free public speaking is the number 1 fear in America, If the flag burning is protected under the 1st Amendment. Why give greater fears to American for expressing their dissatisfaction from the people they hired to Govern body them.

          I wonder if the protest happening in America over Trump is bigger than the war protest against GW Bush?

      3. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        Perhaps we could "compromise", as we do with guns?  No flag larger than 4X6" may be burned, anyone wanting to burn one must obtain a permit (with a 5 day cooling off period) proving they are sane and a citizen, and no flag made of cloth may be burned?

        1. colorfulone profile image88
          colorfuloneposted 9 days ago in reply to this

          I don't remember which states they were, but one flag burning protester was arrested for arson and didn't get off.  Another was arrested and got off somehow.  After that, there were some who brought charcoal grills to burn flags lawfully to avoid violations.  Some of them were actually learning.

        2. Don W profile image83
          Don Wposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          If burning a flag killed people at the rate using a firearm does, I'd have no problem introducing sensible flag-burning controls. So the Constitution would be respected, and lives could be saved. Win-win!

    2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
      wrenchBiscuitposted 9 days ago in reply to this

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13299263.jpg

      Rather than being illegal, I think it should be mandatory for all citizens, and all children from K thru 12. The sheeple will never free themselves from the tyranny of a rich and powerful ruling elite as long as they cling to an illusion of freedom. I have often heard the phrase "Land of the free and home of the brave". Really? If Americans were truly free, and truly brave, it seems that they would exercise that freedom and make the choice to stop bending over.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        +

        If Trump cant make up a law against burning flags. He can hire someone with a bag of tricks like charging them with burning without a permit or jay walking or the too many laws for most of us that cant keep up with..

        I cant even own my own art work, according to new Corporation laws, Screw them, I got into to art to express myself, I will burn my own artwork before they can steal.. It is one of the reason I pioneered sand and snow-sculpture industry because it would be gone before they can steal that from the thought police. Some day they will pull you over in your car for too much thinking..

    3. Stevennix2001 profile image83
      Stevennix2001posted 8 days ago in reply to this

      I do apologize if someone else said this already, as I haven't read all the posts in this forum yet.  However, I will say something similar to what I said about the controversial, "Interview" movie, several years back with a friend of mine.  While on the one hand, I think it's very disrespectful for people to abuse free speech like this to burn a flag that represents our country.  Not to mention you can also say it dishonors the memory of the soldiers that fought for that flag.  But on the other hand, free speech is still free speech.  If you have a right to free speech, then you have a right to be offended as well.

      And to say otherwise goes against the founding principal of what free speech is.  Therefore, I can see both sides of the argument to be quite honest.  Having said all that though, I don't think flag burning should be illegal.  While I do agree with a lot of military soldiers, conservatives, and etc about it being disrespectful and whatnot, the thing is if you make flag burning illegal, then it sets a bad precedent moving forward.

      Sure, it starts with making flag burning illegal today, but what happens tomorrow?  What if some indie filmmaker wants to make a movie highlighting police brutality in this country similar to what we saw in another indie classic, "Fruitville Station?"  Are we going to outlaw that film just because it portrays our police in a bad light? 

      If a comedian wants to make a joke about the president, then is he going to be locked up for life?  Get the death penalty or what?  And if you go that far, then what makes our country different from a fascist dictatorship where the president can kill you if you even so much as look at him the wrong way? 

      Maybe I'm being over dramatic, but it just seems like outlawing flag burning could set a bad precedent moving forward, but that's just me.

    4. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 8 days ago in reply to this

      Again, all this is stupid. The flag is a piece of cloth, nothing more. What is more important are the right and principles that that flag represents not just the cloth itself. Within the new regime we will have to ask questions about 'Rights'.
      -------------

      But, again...
      This is to prepare us for the beautiful world as contemplated and visualized by his most high....

      Hail Trump!

      1. Derek Ross profile image81
        Derek Rossposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        The U.S. Flag represents the principals on which this country was founded, which includes the freedom of expression and speech. Getting upset over the burning of a flag is understandable, but make the destruction of the U.S. Flag a crime places more value on a symbol than on the values for which it stands.

        Rather than an entity of control, the government is meant to be employed by and to serve the people. But more importantly, deeming such an act a crime opens a dangerous door that is all but impossible to close. 

        If we outlaw one thing just because some people don't like it, where should we draw the line? Anything we do at even given second could be considered offensive by someone.

        If you want freedom, you can't pick and choose. You are either in or out. If you want to live in a free nation, allowing others to express themselves in ways with which you don't agree is part of the price that you must pay.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          Freedom of speech is for the goodness of it. For the goodness of being able to express yourself. Is it for some good that anyone ever burns a symbol of hope for the entire world?
          A symbol which could even be a symbol of hope for people like President Obama who little respects America and what we have here. No. All he sees is the inequality and blames it on everything but what he should blame it on: Naturally occurring circumstances. Let the people in their families, towns, cities and states do the best they can to live up to the ideals of the Bible and the Constitution. Let us live. Let us be. I hope Trump will do the same.
          Give back the power to the states.
          Thats what the flag represents: Power Of, For and By the People.
          Don't burn it.

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13299263.jpg

            Here we can discover the true meaning of racism by observing this one way street. Many feel that it is disrespecting all that America stands for when someone burns the Flag. They also continue that it disrespects the people who fought and died in various wars. Now, I want you to hold on to that feeling Kathryn. Because I have a similar feeling every Thanksgiving, every Columbus Day, every time I hear the Star Spangled Banner, and every time I see monuments honoring criminals.

            But the difference is, even if I had the power to do so, I would not attempt to pass a law prohibiting any citizen from celebrating tyrants, or their evil legacy. Why? Because I believe in freedom. I believe that every man has the right to express himself whether I like it or not. As long as I have the freedom to express my opposition to his expression, then that is as close to a perfect world as we can get. But the racist only sees his side of the issue.

          2. Derek Ross profile image81
            Derek Rossposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            I notice you mention letting people be and allowing them to be free, but then you try to prevent people from burning the flag. I understand what it means to you, and I also know how upsetting it can be to see something that you value being destroyed. I have no desire to burn the flag, and I know that those who do so are creating conflict.

            But you must understand that they flag does not mean the same thing to every person. If someone buys a flag and decides to burn it, that person's decision does not impact your life in any way. The only thing it does is offend you, be each of us needs to assume responsibility for or own emotions.

            To ban the burning of the flag is to go down the narrow path of legislating peoples emotions. Although it might work in your favor right now, it's important for us to always look to the future. One day, something that you like or stand for might be considered offensive and get banned.

            1. ahorseback profile image45
              ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              So I want to burn down your front porch , if I only burn your porch and not  the rest of your house , tell us what's  wrong with that ,     if It truly involves freedom of speech ?  I hate all that front  porches represent  , I mean look at all the happiness  that porches represent ,and   I'm not hurting one person doing it ?   A porch , a flag  , a  pine tree ,  it only matters if it matters to you or to me , right ? Well to some ,............the flag matters that much ..

              1. Credence2 profile image85
                Credence2posted 7 days ago in reply to this

                I don't care who it matters to, I served in military service and the only people I hear consistently complain about this issue are the chicken Hawks. My or your porch is private property and the flag that I buy is private property, so if I do not create a fire hazard I am free to burn it if I like. If rightwingers would mind their own business sometimes, we would get along better.... I don't make a fuss with all the stupid nonsence your sort promotes on proliferation of guns and gun rights, etc.

                1. ahorseback profile image45
                  ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                  Uhhhh , Ya ......you do !

              2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                My front porch give me many hours of enjoyable viewing weekly of my neighborhood.

                You burn down my porch , I will sue you and win, a new porch and warn the other neighbors about you.

                I buy a flag and burn it, it"s nobody esles property but mine. If a burn a dollar bill, could be in trouble with the Feds, even though it is worth as much as toilet paper in some places.

              3. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13302293.jpg

                That is the most ridiculous analogy I have see in recent memory! Perhaps that's why "anal" holds such a prominent position in the word. It is no wonder that a bloated , unqualified demagogue is about to be sworn in as President of the United Snakes of America.

                I understand that it is cathartic for you to label me a racist and a hypocrite, and I am glad that I can provide you with some relief from the responsibility of channel surfing, and shopping online for velvet Elvis posters and unreleased Merle Haggard bootlegs. But I am none of the above. The fact that I am a minority precludes me from being a racist, as well as the fact that I am the best friend that the white man ever had. The ones who hate you are the ones who aren't talking, and who simply go about making their plans. But instead, I am a master of peace and harmony.

                And you would do well to read the story of Saul of Tarsus, who became the Apostle Paul. Saul was complicit in the murder of Christians prior to his conversion.  His greatness as an apostle of Jesus was largely due to the fact that he had been inside the belly of the beast. He understood evil because at one time he himself had personified evil. I joined the military because I was young and naive. In spite of  the schooling I had received from my parents on the  nature and the history of America, I believed that I could enjoy the benefits of  the U.S. Navy without actually participating in acts  of murder. But what does a 17 year old who grew up on an isolated farm  really know about the world?

                After 6 years I matured to the point where I could finally realize that I had made myself an accessory to murder. I finally understood that I had been accepting blood money from the same evil hand that had raped and murdered millions of my people on this continent. I realized I had made a mistake, and I take no pride in my military  service. This is why I can so clearly understand the evil that Americans are participating in when they blindly pay the taxes that help to grease the wheels of war; the funding of  the Zionists, the Imperialist aggression in the Middle East, and the proxy war in Syria that has devastated the Syrian people, and caused untold misery. The American taxpayer is just as guilty for the murder of children in the Middle East as the so-called terrorists who are actually doing the killing. This is why the dogs of war are so afraid of refugees. They know of the evil that has been wrought against  these people and their children. And they know that they are responsible. The guilty have much to fear, because they have sown the seeds of their own destruction. If not for the love of God I would still be sleeping with the devil.

            2. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              A good point, why ban something that dose not harm you physically. If the idea offense you, too bad, boy bands offense me,  but those little girls love them.

              This is a false democracy controlled by they very few rich. Even a democracy dose not work why should 10 % Gays give up their ultimate love one to the 90% straights . Why dose 80% approval for medical marijuana harm that help their health be destroyed by few reefer maddness people and happy lawyers and drug cartels.

      2. Rock_nj profile image91
        Rock_njposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        If we banned flag burning and made it punishable by law, then wouldn't we just be another totalitarian society like Cuba or North Korea that do not permit dissent?  I don't like flag burning, but I do like distinguishing our country from totalitarian regimes and don't want to be like them.

        1. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          I have friends on Facebook and I' m pretty sure some of them have had to hire lawyers. That being said, some would argue that free speech is not absolute. There will be consequences. You cannot run into apollo theater and yell fire. They might ask: are you totalitarian intolerant? What is wrong with North Korean or Cuban society? Is it just because they are foreigners to you? Then you will get suppressed.

          1. Rock_nj profile image91
            Rock_njposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            I'm not saying there won't be consequences personally or otherwise, I just don't want to go down that road that so many other countries have that don't permit public dissent against the "state".

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              Do you even realize how much air pollution is caused by burning a flag? Dont put your carbon footprint on a flag I say. Burning a flag is just like burning a hole in the atmosphere only on a smaller scale. Some people might deny this but we know who they really work for.

              1. ahorseback profile image45
                ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                Exactly ,  HOW DO LIBERALS justify their constancy of burning everything in protest ---to protest anything !

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                  The different between a 8' square foot American flag set on fire vs setting an oil mid size north American city on fire. Or setting dozens of whole countries on fire is a huge difference. Starting an America flag on fire is a protest to setting the world on fire.

                  Being more of an anarchist style I prefer to avoid their fires and create a vulenteer community to provent the destructions of fire and use the fire inside me to create beauty

                2. Sherry Hewins profile image94
                  Sherry Hewinsposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                  That seems like an overstatement. There are plenty of liberals, in fact the vast majority, who are not out burning anything.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                    Wait a minute, I have had serious thoughts about burning my Federal tax bills.

      3. rhamson profile image77
        rhamsonposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        It's the old "sticks and stones argument". They are protected by the Constitution as upheld by the Supreme Court.

        "the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."  JUSTICE STEVENS

        https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case … p;as_vis=1

      4. colorfulone profile image88
        colorfuloneposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        I just came across the FoxNews footage of Hillary Clinton calling for Criminalization of Flag Burning.
        http://truthfeed.com/flashback-video-hi … age/39457/

      5. emge profile image86
        emgeposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        Trump is entitled to his thoughts and many in America agree with him. But the US constitution allows dissent and burning a flag is an expression of this proviso in the constitution. Unless Congress passes a law making flag burning an offense I do not see how  burning a flag is a crime.

      6. tamarawilhite profile image88
        tamarawilhiteposted 5 days ago in reply to this

        Flag burning of the American flag should be legal, as should burning the Bible, the Koran and the Rainbow flag.
        If liberals want to be able to burn symbols of Judeo-Christian civilization, then everything else is up for torch, too, or they have an immoral double standard.

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

          Agree as long as you buy the book or flag,  with a burning permit.

          Hell with the burning permit set fireworks with it.

      7. Araaz profile image72
        Araazposted 3 days ago in reply to this

        Oh Well agreed. People are just making a big deal for Trump being the President. He sound patriotic and I don't think he intend to harm people residing in the country.This is a very good idea,but if the flag catch fire accidently??

    5. cheaptrick profile image63
      cheaptrickposted 9 days ago

      I think it should be OK to burn the flag but only if they wrap themselves up in it first...

      1. ahorseback profile image45
        ahorsebackposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        A man burned his US passport 3 times and they kept making him reaply. Prisoners has gone up 10 times in the last 40 years dose that not make him a prisoner of the US too. Besides a flag is just fabric a persons true freedom means much more.

        1. ahorseback profile image45
          ahorsebackposted 9 days ago in reply to this

          A flag , OUR flag , should be sacred -  Every communist knows that you have to stand for something or fall for anything !

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

            Being allowed to be green and be of service to humanity is sacred. A flag like a cross is a symbol for the simple minded.

    6. colorfulone profile image88
      colorfuloneposted 9 days ago

      TRUMP TROLLS MEDIA INTO SAVAGING HILLARY CLINTON
      Hillary co-sponsored flag burning bill in 2005
      http://www.infowars.com/trump-trolls-me … y-clinton/

      I love it when he trolls the liberal media / social media. 

      I agree, that USA Flag burning should carry some hefty punishments. That should be left up to the law makers.  Immediate deportation for illegals who openly show they do not care about the American Flag and what it stands for. 

      I think Trump was making an extreme point and trolling by saying flag burners should lose their citizenship.  Hey, he has to have some fun when the ant-Trump protesters are the ones burning the flags.  Kind of like a parent putting the fear of God in those stupid disrespectful punks.   

      Some Veterans got burned putting burning flag fires out at Trump rallies, they fought for those colors, and some of their brothers and sister died for those colors. They weren't going to stand by and watch their country's flag burn, that's what 'men' do.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        +1

    7. Celestial99 profile image60
      Celestial99posted 9 days ago

      I believe the burning of the flag is a right everyone has. Under the first amendment, which states Freedom of religion, speech, press, peaceful assembly and petition of the government, we as Americans have the right to express our displeasure. People may not like it but just as I don't like when people eat sweets when I'm on a diet but that doesn't mean that those people should be punished for it.

      1. ahorseback profile image45
        ahorsebackposted 9 days ago in reply to this

        Perhaps that would be fine IF , everyone had to study  the reasons for Red, White and Blue of the flag , why the stripes , why the stars , and the color red , I'll bet you don't know THAT without googe-ling it !

        1. Castlepaloma profile image23
          Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

          They don't teach that in US Schools, I remember that in Canada in grade 6,

          1. ahorseback profile image45
            ahorsebackposted 9 days ago in reply to this

            No one learns anything in Grade school in America...........at least now !

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

              Why dose the show called,?
              :Are you smarter than a 5th grader:
              Show these kids usually beats and embarrassed the adults on general knowledge.

        2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
          wrenchBiscuitposted 9 days ago in reply to this

          http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13299459_f1024.jpg

          wrenchBiscuit Sheds a Brand New Light On Old Glory

          It is not necessary for a sexy man with a superior intellect to Google the obvious.

          The red is for the blood of my people; the genocide of 100 million Indigenous. The red stands for the blood of the African slaves that ran like rivers down their backs; backs beaten with whips made of rawhide and barbed wire.  It also stands for the blood of the poor and working class European pawns; those who have been used as cannon fodder; those who have functioned as a higher class of pack animal to build this evil empire alongside the African Slaves. In return for their blind loyalty, they have been given WalMart, and ten years of retirement here in Florida to play Bocce Ball, drink Margarita's, and to ride the lightning with Viagra , before they fall over dead of a stroke or a heart attack.

          The white stands for Manifest Destiny and a system of  white supremacy.

          The blue stands for the feeling I get each time I see an American flag, a statue of Columbus, the Statue of Liberty, an image of Mt. Rushmore, or yet another post on Hubpages that glorifies theft and murder.  What else could it possibly stand for?

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 9 days ago in reply to this

            Not sure anyone is interested in your personal interpretation, twisted out of any semblance of what was actually intended and documented.  Even were you to burn the flag, screaming out your view as you did so, it still would not have any connection to what the symbol stands for.  Just what symbology you personally have assigned without regard to history or the symbology of anyone else.

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
              wrenchBiscuitposted 9 days ago in reply to this

              I have never been to Idaho, but I am certain that I would not be welcome there. Many of the good people who were living there were slaughtered many years ago. And I am in agreement with your assessment. I have no doubt that a majority of Americans are not interested in my viewpoint; a depth of truth and understanding that runs contrary to the status quo. But I have an obligation, and a duty to fulfill, and so I press on.

              When you are a young Indigenous girl being gang raped by American soldiers at Sand Creek, and the last thing you see after they finish defiling your body, and before they shoot you in the head, is an American Flag waving, you realize in that moment the true meaning of the American Flag. When you are an old man shot in the back by American soldiers at Wounded Knee, and the last thing that you see before you die is an American Flag waving , you realize in that moment the true meaning of the American Flag. I am the truth and nothing but the truth. And I am feared throughout the land, because no one can hide from the truth.

              There is a Cracker Jack interpretation of  the American Flag that is appealing to many Americans. But for something to be seen, it requires that there must first be an observer. That observer will have an interpretation of what is seen, and if what is seen is a sentient being,  it will have an interpretation of itself. And if there is more than one observer, then there will be even more interpretations. Racism in America dictates that the only worthwhile interpretation of anything is the white man's interpretation. But those days are over. Welcome to the New World.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 9 days ago in reply to this

                "you realize in that moment the true meaning of the American Flag."

                Of course you do not.  You just make up a new meaning for it, which you have done based on past history, carefully choosing which bits of history you wish to put into your new meaning.  Welcome to the world of reality, where definitions don't change whenever you wish them to or whenever you have a different meaning you'd like to apply.

              2. cheaptrick profile image63
                cheaptrickposted 8 days ago in reply to this

                'Order'

          2. ahorseback profile image45
            ahorsebackposted 9 days ago in reply to this

            At least you're consistent , even if you are massively delusional .Here we go again with the victomology lesson all  .    Is that photo of a Nez-Peirce  after a friendly battle with the Sioux

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
              wrenchBiscuitposted 9 days ago in reply to this

              That's funny! Your predictability is like a comfortable pair of old shoes. They may not look or smell so nice, but they feel good on your feet. Just imagine if Hitler had won the war. Imagine a group of Nazis reverently discussing on Hubpages  the most appropriate way in which to display the Swastika. But that is not  a fair comparison, since the brutality of the Nazis pales in comparison to the brutality of the Colonizers.

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 9 days ago in reply to this

                Pales in comparison to the brutality of the colonizers? That's a strange take, in my opinion. Considering all that not only the Nazis, but Europe as a whole, has done to the world in the last 100 years.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

                  I give the British empire number 1 terrorist spot for invading 90% of the worlds countries.

                  Give America empire the greatest single genocidal terrorism number one spot for the native Americans, Hitler was most impress.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 9 days ago in reply to this

                    Did they actually "invade" more "countries" than Rome did in it's hay day?  Certainly Britain never "invaded" 175 countries (90% of the 195 current countries), unless you want to count modern tourism as an invasion.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 9 days ago in reply to this

                      From my trips around world the British had many battles everywhere they went and many  places that were not countries yet. Not so big like America invadings today. Many British traveled were territory spread out to other unestablished then these places turned later into countries. From my  pirate museum displays.  I learn they went out to every where create piracy into every sea from mid 1700s untill they hit the Nazis. Now Rothschild UK and have still have big secret connections with America.

                2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                  wrenchBiscuitposted 9 days ago in reply to this

                  http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13299748.jpg

                  I just recently learned that people can survive eating dirt. I have lived all of these years and  no one ever told me that common  dirt can nourish the body and keep you alive.Many things seem strange to us when we are not informed. If you ever seriously studied American History, as well as World History, you would be more informed and you would see the world in an entirely different light. The American Flag , patriotic songs, and historic monuments perpetuate the deception of Nationalism.

                  They paint a false image of goodness and morality. But we all know that in the Bible it says: "Thou shall not kill." It doesn't say, "Thou shall not kill ... except when you feel threatened by a hostile enemy" or "Thou shall not kill ...  unless you need the oil that exists in a foreign country that is unwilling to accept your terms". or "Thou shall not kill ... unless there are Indians living in a New World that you want to claim as your own".

                  Thus , this has never been a Christian Nation, and in fact, in the context of military action, the phrase "Patriotic Christian" is an oxymoron. Any Christian who is a Patriot, at least in this respect, is essentially a hypocrite, because Jesus did not condone killing. He did not condone killing for the breaking of God's commandments, as evidenced in the story of the adulteress. And he did not advocate violence or killing to save one's own life, as evidenced in his crucifixion. This is why I am known throughout the world as "The White Man's Moses". I have come to free the white man from materialism, racism, and hypocrisy, and to lead him to the promised land. And I am as serious as a heart attack in an elevator stuck on the 4th floor.

                  1. cheaptrick profile image63
                    cheaptrickposted 8 days ago in reply to this

                    Quoting the Bible to argue for non violence is like Having Bad sex to encourage abstinence...pathetic and typical religiosity...

              2. cheaptrick profile image63
                cheaptrickposted 8 days ago in reply to this

                If you're going to be bringing up the past (which is unchangeable), how far back is it PC to go?...cause I think some reparations should be paid to decedents of the Neanderthals for the horrendous way they/we were treated forty thousand years ago by Modern man...Hell,all that's left of Neanderthals is traces of DNA in modern humans....and after that let's talk Apes and Chimps!
                There is a point here but you have to be smarter than a pissed off fifth grader to get it.I reject feeling ANY guilt for ANYTHING I was not directly involved in.

    8. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      Flag burning is ridiculous. If you do not like the country you live in or its history why do you torture yourself to remain? The majority benefits from this country and and it's system of government. They are happy. They are spiritually evolving and things will improve. We are evolving even if it doesn't seem that way. We can only learn from the past and learn from our mistakes. We learn from the school of hard knocks and we learn as we go. The Constitution is a fine document which acknowledges our rights as human beings. The indigenous groups should be under the jurisdiction of the US government, then they wouldn't be having problems with stupid ignorant individuals trespassing and taking advantage of the fact that there are fewer laws and ways to enforce them.

      Flag burning is not the way to voice your opinion of things wrong with the country. If Flag burning is regarded as an aspect of freedom of speech, it is really an abuse of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech was for some good, not some destructive bad. Without this country, where are you, Mr. or Ms. Flag burner??
      Do us all a favor, just GET OUT.

      1. crankalicious profile image86
        crankaliciousposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        Here's what Antonin Scalia said about flag burning in his decision to uphold it as a right of free speech:

        "If I were king, I would not allow people to go around burning the American flag. However, we have a First Amendment, which says that the right of free speech shall not be abridged -- and it is addressed in particular to speech critical of the government. That was the main kind of speech that tyrants would seek to suppress."

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago in reply to this

          And what does burning a flag, (the flag of our nation, the united states, a democratic republic designed to provide the rights given by God to ALL) speak about, precisely??
          If it looks like an American flag, it is a symbol of America. What do you not like about America? The land? or its corruption. I say we must behold it's ideals. To burn the flag is to burn the very ideals the country was based on. If you do not approve, state the problem in WORDS. What is your solution. The issue can be spoken of. You don't have to destroy the symbol of American ideals.

          1. crankalicious profile image86
            crankaliciousposted 8 days ago in reply to this

            Tyrants seek to suppress the right of free speech.

    9. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      "The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 was a bill sponsored by Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) in the 110th United States Congress. Its stated purpose is to deal with "homegrown terrorism and violent radicalization" by establishing a national commission, establishing a center for study, and cooperating with other nations. The bill failed to become law during the 110th Congress.

      This bill would have:

      Amended the Homeland Security Act of 2002 to add provisions concerning the prevention of homegrown terrorism (terrorism by individuals born, raised, or based and operating primarily in the United States).
      Directed the Secretary of Homeland Security to:
      Establish a grant program to prevent radicalization (use of an extremist belief system for facilitating ideologically-based violence) and homegrown terrorism in the United States;[4]
      Establish or designate a university-based Center of Excellence for the Study of Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States;
      Conduct a survey of methodologies implemented by foreign nations to prevent radicalization and homegrown terrorism.
      Prohibited the Department of Homeland Security's efforts to prevent ideologically-based violence and homegrown terrorism from violating the constitutional and civil rights, and civil liberties, of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents."
      FROM:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_R … ct_of_2007

      In my opinion it should have passed. Why didn't it????

    10. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 8 days ago

      I'm taking this as a signal that any kind of political dissent is going to be treated very harshly going forward. The threat of making a person stateless is one of the most extreme that you can make.

      I note that a journalist trying to cover the pipeline protest in North Dakota was arrested for 'riot' after trying to take photos of police tactics. That is the kind of thing that will spread and deepen as the US becomes more authoritarian.

    11. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      Although the U.S. Supreme Court has twice invalidated state flag laws, 47 states still have on the books laws, many modeled after the Uniform Flag Law of 1917, that prohibit the desecration of the flag or its use for advertising and publicity purposes.
      Alabama
      The State of Alabama makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to desecrate a venerated object, such as the U.S. or Alabama state flag. [Ala. Code Sec. 13A-11-12]
      Arizona
      The State of Arizona forbids the use of the U.S. or Arizona state flag in advertisements, publicity or trade. The law also prohibits people from “casting contempt upon, mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, trampling or otherwise dishonoring” the U.S. or Arizona state flag and punishes such action as a Class II misdemeanor. [Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. Sec. 13-3703]
      Arkansas
      The State of Arkansas imposes a fine of up to $1,000 and a jail term up to one year on those convicted of mutilating, defacing, burning, maintaining on the floor, or trampling the U.S. flag. [Ark. Code Ann. Sec. 5-51-207 and 208]
      California
      The State of California makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to cast contempt on any flag by mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning or trampling upon it. [Cal. Mil. & Vet. Code Sec. 614]
      Colorado
      The State of Colorado makes it a Class 3 misdemeanor for anyone to burn, cut or tear any U.S. flag in public with the intent to cast contempt or ridicule upon the flag, to outrage the sensibilities of a person likely to observe the incident or to cause a breach of the peace. [Colo. Rev. Stat. Sec. 18-11-204]
      Connecticut
      The State of Connecticut makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to misuse or mutilate the U.S. or the Connecticut state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Conn. Gen. Stat. Sec. 53-258a.]
      Delaware
      The State of Delaware makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to intentionally deface, damage or physically mistreat the U.S. flag “in a way in which the actor knows will outrage the sensibilities of persons likely to observe or discover the actions.” [Del. Code Ann. tit. 11 Sec. 1331]
      Florida
      The State of Florida makes it a second-degree misdemeanor for anyone to mutilate, deface, burn or trample upon the U.S. flag, the Florida state flag or the flags of the Confederacy. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes and punishes such infractions with a fine of up to $500 and a jail term of up to 60 days . [Fla. Stat. ch. 256.05 through 256.10] And public mutilation of a flag is punishable as a first-degree misdemeanor if done with intent to insult the flag. [Fla. Stat. ch. 876.52]
      Georgia
      The State of Georgia prohibits anyone from mutilating, defacing, defiling, or abusing contemptuously the U.S. flag, the Florida state flag or the flag of the Confederate States of America. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Ga. Code Ann. Sec. 50-3-8 and 50-3-9]
      Hawaii
      The State of Hawaii makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to intentionally deface, damage or physically mistreat the U.S. flag “in a way that the defendant knows will outrage the sensibilities of persons likely to observe or discover the defendant’s action.” [Hawaii Rev. Stat. Sec. 711-1107]
      Idaho
      The State of Idaho makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to publicly mutilate, deface, trample upon or burn the U.S. or Idaho state flag with the intent to insult. [Idaho Code Sec. 18-3401]
      Illinois
      The State of Illinois makes it a Class 4 felony for anyone to misuse or mutilate the U.S. or the Illinois state flag. The law also forbids the use of either flag for advertising or publicity purposes and rules that a Class C misdemeanor. Half of fines collected in the successful prosecution of this charge go to the school fund of the county in which the conviction is obtained. [720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 620]
      Indiana
      The State of Indiana makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to knowingly or intentionally mutilate, deface, burn or trample the U.S. flag. [Indiana Code Sec. 35-45-1 through 35-45-4]
      Iowa
      The State of Iowa makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to misuse or mutilate the U.S. or the Iowa state flag. The law also forbids the use of either flag for advertising or publicity purposes. [Iowa Code Sec. 718A.1 through 718A.6]
      Kansas
      The State of Kansas prohibits anyone from damaging, defacing or destroying any U.S. or Kansas state flag without express consent. The charge may be a felony if the value of the damaged property exceeds $500. Otherwise, it would be ruled a Class A misdemeanor. [Kan. Stat. Ann. Sec. 21-4111]
      Kentucky
      The State of Kentucky makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to desecrate the U.S. flag, the Kentucky state flag or any other patriotic or religious symbol. [Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. Sec. 525.110]
      Louisiana
      The State of Louisiana imposes a fine of up to $100 and a jail term up to 90 days on those convicted of mutilating, defiling, or casting contempt by word or act on the U.S. flag, the Louisiana state flag or the Confederate States of America flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [La. Rev. Stat. Ann. Sec. 116 and 117]
      Maine
      The State of Maine makes it a Class E crime for anyone to mutilate, deface, trample, or cast contempt upon either the U.S. flag or the Maine state flag. The state imposes a fine of up to $50 on those convicted of using either flag for advertising or publicity purposes. [Me. Rev. Stat. Ann. tit. 1, Chp 9, Sec. 253-254]
      Maryland
      The State of Maryland imposes a fine of up to $1000 and a jail term of up to 1 year for anyone who mutilates, defaces or shows contempt for the U.S. flag or the Maryland state flag in a manner intended to incite a breach of the peace. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Md. Code Ann. Art. 27, Sec. 81-87]
      Massachusetts
      The State of Massachusetts imposes a minimum fine of $100 and a jail term up to one year on anyone convicted of mutilating, trampling, defacing or showing contempt for the U.S. flag or the Massachusetts state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 264 Sec. 5]
      Michigan
      The State of Michigan makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to publicly mutilate, deface, defile or show contempt for the U.S. flag or the Michigan state flag. [Mich. Comp. Laws Sec. 750.246]
      Minnesota
      The State of Minnesota makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to intentionally and publicly mutilate, defile or show contempt for the U.S. flag or the Minnesota state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Minn. Stat. Sec. 609.40]
      Mississippi
      The State of Mississippi imposes a fine of up to $1,000 and a jail term up to 30 days on those convicted of mutilating, trampling or defacing the U.S. flag, the Mississippi state flag, or the Confederate flag with the intent to dishonor. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Miss. Code Ann. Sec. 97-7-39]
      Missouri
      The State of Missouri makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to purposefully and publicly mutilate, defile, trample upon or desecrate the U.S. or Missouri state flags. [Mo. Rev. Stat.. Sec. 578.095]
      Montana
      The State of Montana imposes a fine of up to $50,000 and a jail term up to 10 years on anyone convicted of mutilating, defiling or showing contempt for the U.S. flag or the Montana state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Mont. Code Ann. Sec. 45-8-215]
      Nebraska
      The State of Nebraska makes it a Class III misdemeanor for anyone to mutilate, deface, defile, burn or trample the U.S. flag or the Nebraska state flag. [Neb. Rev. Stat. Sec. 28-928]
      Nevada
      The State of Nevada makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to deface or defile the U.S. flag or the Nevada state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Nev. Rev. Stat. Sec. 201.290]
      New Hampshire
      The State of New Hampshire makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to knowingly cast contempt upon the U.S. flag, by desecrating it. [N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. Sec. 646A(1) – A(4)]
      New Jersey
      The State of New Jersey prohibits anyone from desecrating any public monument or symbol, including the U.S. or any state flag. [ N.J. Stat. Ann. Sec. 2C:33-9]
      New Mexico
      The State of New Mexico makes it a petty misdemeanor for anyone to insult the U.S. or the New Mexico state flags by word or act. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [N.M. Stat. Ann. Sec. 30-21-4]
      New York
      The State of New York makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to use the U.S. flag for advertising or publicity purposes. [N.Y. Gen. Bus. Law Sec. 136]
      North Carolina
      The State of North Carolina makes it a Class 2 misdemeanor for anyone to mutilate, defile, deface or trample upon the U.S. flag or the North Carolina state flag. [N.C. Gen. Stat. Sec. 14.381]
      North Dakota
      The State of North Dakota makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to publicly mutilate, deface, defile, burn or trample upon the U.S. flag. [N.D. Cent. Code Sec. 12.1-07-02]
      Ohio
      The State of Ohio makes it a misdemeanor of the second degree for anyone to purposely deface, damage or physically mistreat the U.S. flag or the Ohio state flag. [Ohio Rev. Code Ann. Sec. 2927.11]
      Oklahoma
      The State of Oklahoma imposes a fine up to $3,000 and a jail term up to three years for anyone who contemptuously or maliciously burns, mutilates, defaces or tramples upon the U.S. flag. The law forbids the public display of any red flag or other banner indicating disloyalty to the U.S. Government or promoting a belief in anarchy or the destruction of organized government. The law also forbids the use of the U.S. flag for advertising or publicity purposes. [Okla. Stat. tit. 9, Sec. 21-371 through 21-375]
      Oregon
      The State of Oregon makes it a Class C misdemeanor for anyone to abuse venerated objects such as the U.S. flag or the Oregon state flag. [Or. Rev. Stat. Sec. 166.075]
      Pennsylvania
      The State of Pennsylvania prohibits anyone from disrespecting the U.S. flag or using it for advertising or publicity purposes. [18 Pa. Cons. Stat. Sec. 2102]
      Rhode Island
      The State of Rhode Island imposes up to a $100 fine and a jail term up to 30 days on anyone convicted of publicly mutilating, defacing or trampling upon the U.S. flag. The law also forbids the use of the flag for advertising or publicity purposes. [R.I. Gen. Laws Sec. 11-15-2 and 11-20-2]
      South Carolina
      The State of South Carolina imposes up to a $100 fine and a jail term up to 30 days on anyone convicted of publicly mutilating, defacing, jeering at, trampling upon or defiling the U.S. flag, the South Carolina state flag or the Confederate States of America flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [S.C. Code Ann. Sec. 16-17-210 through 16-17-220]
      South Dakota
      The State of South Dakota makes it a Class 1 misdemeanor for anyone to knowingly mutilate, deface, burn or trample upon the U.S. flag or the South Dakota state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. The law also bans the display of red, black or any other flags antagonistic to existing government. [S.D. Codified Laws Sec. 22-9-1 through 22-9-13]
      Tennessee
      The State of Tennessee makes it a Class A misdemeanor for intentional desecration of the U.S. flag or the Tennessee flag. [Tenn. Code Ann. Sec. 39-17-311]
      Texas
      The State of Texas makes it a Class A misdemeanor for anyone to intentionally damage, deface, mutilate or burn the U.S. flag or the Texas state flag. [Tex. Penal Code Ann. Sec. 42.11]
      Utah
      The State of Utah makes it a Class B misdemeanor for anyone to knowingly and publicly mutilate, deface, burn or trample upon the U.S. flag or any state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Utah Code Ann. Sec. 76-9-601]
      Vermont
      The State of Vermont imposes a fine of up to $1000 and a jail term of up to one year on anyone convicted of publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling or trampling upon the U.S. flag or the Vermont state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Vt. Stat. Ann. tit. 13 Sec. 1902 through 1905]
      Virginia
      The State of Virginia makes it a Class 1 misdemeanor to publicly mutilate, burn, defile or trample upon the U.S. flag or the Virginia state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Va. Code Ann. Sec. 18.2-487 and 18.2-488]
      Washington
      The State of Washington makes it a misdemeanor for anyone to cast contempt by publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning or trampling upon the U.S. or Washington state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [Wash. Rev. Code Sec. 9.86.020 through 9.86.050]
      West Virginia
      The State of West Virginia imposes a fine of between $5 and $100 and a jail term up to 30 days on anyone convicted of publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling or trampling upon the U.S. flag or the West Virginia state flag. The law also forbids the use of such flags for advertising or publicity purposes. [W. Va. Code Sec. 61-1-8]
      Wisconsin
      The Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down the state’s flag-desecration law in 1998 as unconstitutionally overbroad. The case was Wisconsin v. Jansen, 580 N.W.2d 260, 219 Wis.2d 362 (Wis. 1998). Subsequent attempts by the state Legislature to redraft the statute have not succeeded.
      Wyoming and Alaska are the only remaining states without a law against desecrating the American flag. Wyoming does have a clause in its state flag code that declares “all penalties provided by the laws of this state for the misuse of the national flag are applicable to the state flag,” but no such penalties seem to exist.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        Desecrating the American flag? So now it is a holy relic? This is the kind of thing that gets a nation into very dark places.

        Vietnam protesters burned the US flag as way of saying that they were not going to allow Washington to manipulate them (and quite likely, kill them) through appeals to patriotism.

        How many other freedoms are likely to disappear in the next few years? You really will be dependent on the integrity of the judicial system and the willingness of people to take to the streets to defend those freedoms you are currently allowed.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago in reply to this

          luckily Nixon understood they didn't want to be forced to go to war. He got rid of the draft. Did they have to burn the flag to get his attention? No ... They could have marched in DC, signed petitions, called their representatives. They could have accomplished it without flag burning. Nevertheless, no one (not everyone, I mean) saw flag burning as hatred of the nation. Just the war and being to forced to fight for a cause they did not believe in. Therefore it is not illegal according the Supreme Court. But, flag burning is very bad. Nothing, now-a-days, should justify it ...
          Well, I can't think of anything … can you?

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 8 days ago in reply to this

            How do you propose to "legally" remove a tyrant, or a cabal of corrupt puppet politicians owned by Wall Street,Big Pharma, and Big Oil? With a vote?  Do you really think that organized crime is going to go quietly into the night?  That is what we are witnessing here Kathryn: Organized Crime. That's why they have continued since before the Patriot Act to erode our civil liberties. They are making it increasingly difficult for the people to challenge a corrupt and oppressive  government. And you are suggesting that this is a good thing, and they should pass even more laws! You like looking up definitions. You should look up the definition of Stockholm Syndrome.

            You commented concerning Flag Burning: "...Nothing, now-a-days, should justify it ...
            Well, I can't think of anything … can you? "

            1.DAPL (Standing Rock)
            2.Flint Michigan
            3. The Proxy War In Syria
            4. Broken Treaties (for the last 250 years)
            5. Killing of U.S. Citizens by the Police
            6. The fleecing of Americans through the Tax System by politicians.
            7. The fleecing of Americans by Law Enforcement which extorts money from citizens.
            8. The Cancer Industry that promotes the maintenance of cancer over prevention or a cure.
            9. Monsanto
            10. Nestle
            11. Wall Street

            These are just a few good reasons.

          2. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 8 days ago in reply to this

            If you want any kind of freedom as an individual you need to be aware of the ways that politicians manipulate you. Appeals to patriotism are right at the top of the list.

            No need to ditch your patriotism, just don't let unscrupulous politicians use it to goad you into actions that are in their interest not yours.

            Bit late saying this, of course, lol.

    12. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      "But on the other hand, free speech is still free speech."
      Freedom of speech has limits. Freedom of speech is for the good of freedom of speech, not for the bad. If it is destructive to the nation, it should not be allowed, as most states agree, (even though the federal government gives us a pass. "Although the U.S. Supreme Court has twice invalidated state flag laws, 47 states still have on the books laws, many modeled after the Uniform Flag Law of 1917, that prohibit the desecration of the flag or its use for advertising and publicity purposes." http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/sta … ction-laws)

      for instance:
      1940
      Congress passes the Smith Act, Title I of the Alien Registration Act of 1940, which makes it a crime to advocate the violent overthrow of the government.

      1951
      In Dennis v. United States, the U.S. Supreme Court upholds the convictions of 12 Communist Party members convicted under the Smith Act of 1940. The Court finds that the Smith Act, a measure banning speech which advocates the violent overthrow of the federal government, does not violate the First Amendment.

      1969
      In Brandenburg v. Ohio, a leader of a Ku Klux Klan group is convicted under Ohio law and sentenced to prison primarily on the basis of a speech he made at a Klan rally. The U.S. Supreme Court unanimously rules that speech advocating the use of force or crime is not protected if (1) the advocacy is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action” and (2) the advocacy is also “likely to incite or produce such action.”

      FROM
      http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/fir … t-timeline

    13. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      CRIMINALS? "Criminals have taken over the U.S. government,"?????

      then you say they are puppets.


           this is some serious stuff you are saying.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        This a shock to you the worlds largest criminals organization has taking over the US military,  banks, media and Governments. When 95% of crime is occupational , it no wonder so many Americans are lost in space from what's is really going on.

    14. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      The flag represents the nation. not the people in the government. we are to preserve the nation even if we legally remove the people who we put in office, who are temporarily in office. Burning the flag means to burn the nation and all its stands for.

    15. ahorseback profile image45
      ahorsebackposted 8 days ago

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13300271.jpg

      I suppose I know that there is and  was  always a time in our  nation where there is ,by a vast majority , a collective love of country , a well understood sense of patriotism by almost all ,   even  a fairly mature understanding and acceptance of  some amount of dissention .    But there is one thing that I do know for sure  .Those who burn the American flag never loved it to begin with .    Why ?   I am just as sure of that as I am that you  who perpetrate that act  are not worthy of  patriotism , you  are not mature or intelligent enough for it ,   you  are not of the same cloth , the same mettle of those that do ,  that   your very act shows the true amount of social maturity that you will , more than likely ,  never own for yourself.

      I believe that those who chose  that act ,should be exiled from this land and they might as well be because   they haven't earned the maturity  and the intelligence  to exercise  and understand free speech to begin with , There are many here who will disagree with this opinion , and to them , to you , I say This is my right  and  I own this opinion  .   For one thing , when you remove the flag from your  love of liberty this is what you end up with .
      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13300296.jpg

    16. 60
      theprincereviewerposted 8 days ago

      I agree because burning flags shows that you are disrespecting your nation and that is not what many people appriciate Donald is right but also on that topic Donald must not make the concequences bad. It should be illegal and if not than USA is not a very good nation some people do it for the hate of the voters who voted Donald as president.

      1. ahorseback profile image45
        ahorsebackposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        That ! Is the exact  reason that most do , do that ! For the Immaturity and exhibitionism of it  !

    17. 60
      lmmunoz0729posted 8 days ago

      Sychophantastic, AGREED!

    18. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      another tidbit from the link above:
        Opined the Post: “What do lobbyists at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and the director of a Washington think tank have to do with hedge-fund manager Paul Singer and the Argentine prosecutor Alberto Nisman, who died mysteriously in January? … Well, according to Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, they are all part of a ‘global modus operandi’ that ‘generates international political operations of any type, shape and color.’

      So, this all gets pretty confusing.

    19. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 8 days ago

      One of the main characteristics of conservatism is that it is opposed to change, adaption or advancement. That is what conservatism means: staying the same.

      Fortunately for the US, it inherited the thoughts and practices of a very liberal moment in European history.

      If the US had inherited a theocratic constitution, conservatives would be defending theocratic dogma just as conservatives do in Iran.

      Wouldn't it be wonderful if the US could take a few steps of its own and improve on 18th Century thought?

    20. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago

      Hey flag burners:
      you gotta problem with words?

      You have to act like lunatics?
      REALLY?
      so, go ahead.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        If they burn down a book store they may hate that they can't read.

        If I was living in America then the US troops bombed and gun down my entire family who lived in Iraq, just so the greedy could steal and sell cheap oil to China.  Then Americans wave their flags and hold on to their gold crosses

        I might at least burn a cheap Walmart US flag too. Burning a flag is like burning a man made out of straw, 10 feet high. An art pictures can be a thousand words. Materials can be replaced a human being and love ones can't.

      2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
        wrenchBiscuitposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13301287.jpg

        Here's a Stocking Stuffer for Donald Trump this Christmas.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          Don't use it as toilet paper either.

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            Do you reckon you own the flag or it owns you?

        2. ahorseback profile image45
          ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          And here is a stocking stuffer for wrenchbisket this Christmas.
          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13301716.jpg

          Wrench , that is how it feels when you post a photo as you have above,  to patriots .  I was looking for a teepee  that was actually burning BUT   I realized that I actually have a sense of decency .  Something that loser flag burners  could never begin to muster up . Empathy for another , any other group of peoples is  totally out of the question  . Personally , I would be fine with the deportation and the stripping away of all  American rights to any and all American  flag burners.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            If a native American was burning an American flag.  Where do you deport him to.. Your back yard?

            1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
              wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              LOL! Good point. onhorseback never thought of that either.

              1. ahorseback profile image45
                ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13301829.png

                Wrenchbisket , tell us ,what does this feel like ?..........That ! is my thought and point .   If naïve  liberals like you and all too many so enlightened EVER had a  thought that included empathy for others ,  it would immediately trigger an earth-quake like reaction , I'm not sure the earth could even handle it .

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                  For black they burn crosses, for native they burn tee pees, for farmers and wildlife the burn crops with oil spills. Corporations are getting overly creative. Don't concern myself with KKK so much, they are burning pot, through a gun barrel.

        3. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 5 days ago in reply to this

          I think it would be more productive and satisfying if you made it a mission to create an alternative holiday to share Columbus Day with. Explorers and exploration has an adventurous appeal.  It seems to be the common denominator for everyone being here.

          But have an alternative for columbus that is American Indian orientated.Just be careful by assigning a person to it because don knotts swashbuckling explorers only exist in fantasy. Especially when the world, as it is today, also was ruthless and harsh perhaps even harsher back then. Someone might get offended that some guy was chosen and : "oh yea didnt he wipe some folks out along the way" or they treated women like lesser human beings etc.

          Then maybe if the day had competition, that had an American Indian aspect we could phase out that Italian guy holiday with someone else. (sharing at first and phasing out might keep the Italians from getting offended) After thought and considering your perspective it seems we really don't have much American Indian recognition in the holiday regard. Hardly one at all.

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 4 days ago in reply to this

            http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13305142.jpg

            wrenchBiscuit rebukes a celebration of evil

            Your thoughts are interesting, and what you are suggesting already occurs to some degree. Some cities across the United States have abandoned the Columbus Day celebration in favor of  "Indigenous People's Day" . The state of Vermont and an increasing number of cities such as Denver and Phoenix have stopped celebrating Columbus on the federal holiday and instead celebrate the Indigenous people of this continent. That is a nice gesture but it doesn't go far enough. The issue here transcends the issue of race and genocide. This is not to suggest that genocide alone is not a serious enough issue, because it most certainly is. But I am suggesting that the glorification of evil affects all Americans, and is as demeaning to the white man as anyone else.

            Regardless of race: rape,slavery, murder, and pedophilia are unacceptable to most people. And that requires no explanation. But here in the United States we have been taught to overlook such behavior. If a man has made what is deemed by many to be great social or political contributions to this society, then he gets a free pass, and all of his sins appear to be forgiven. There are monuments across the nation honoring George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Both men were slave owners, rapists, and also murderers, and Thomas Jefferson was a known pedophile. There were plenty of prominent  Euro-Americans of that era who did not commit such crimes against humanity.

            There were white Euro-Americans, elected representatives of the people, who disagreed with, and tried to stop the Indian Removal Act of 1830. But in spite of this, the tyrant Andrew Jackson who succeeded in passing this evil legislation is celebrated as a hero, while those Euro-Americans who were not thieves and murderers, and who sought a peaceful solution for both European and Indigenous people, have long since been forgotten. This celebration of evil simply has to end.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 4 days ago in reply to this

              I proposed many time over a concrete sculpture of Tecumseh and story at theme parks across North America. It got refused too many times because of the controversial background between whites and many kinds of native tribes. If it was not for Tecumseh Canada would be another state of the US ..

              Finally my best friend made my clay model of Tecumseh in the main feature at a wood carving museum in Winsor Ontario Canada.

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                wrenchBiscuitposted 4 days ago in reply to this

                http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13305340.jpg

                I'm sorry it was not accepted. That is just one of many examples of how one sided everything is here in the United States. I have always enjoyed all cultures because I like variety. And I feel the same about music, food, women, and alcoholic beverages. Variety is truly the spice of life, but apparently many white Americans have always only wanted to see images of their own likeness, and glorify only that which is Euro-American. I prefer to glorify God, which includes everything. When I was a kid I learned a lot about music from both white and black musicians and composers, as well as native artists like  Robbie Robertson,Buffy Sainte-Marie, and Marty Robbins.

    21. soozeqsh profile image79
      soozeqshposted 8 days ago

      Such a silly thing to worry about.  Just another example of Trump not knowing what he is talking about before he tweets.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        You underestimate Trump. If he wants to sell you something, he quickly works out what you want to hear. Currently he is selling himself and it is clear from replies in this forum that he understands his target perfectly.

        Obviously, he is not going to mention that million dollar tax cut for himself and his friends, lol.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago in reply to this

          And how do you know about a million dollar tax cut for himself and his friends?
          Have you been speaking to him too?

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 8 days ago in reply to this

            As I said before, you need to pay attention to what politicians say, Trumps tax plans have been published.

            The Tax Policy Center, Urban Institute and Brookings Institution have taken a look.

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13301249.jpg

            Based on this: https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/trump-tax-reform.pdf

            47 percent of the cuts will go to the super rich.

    22. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 8 days ago

      I would never burn a French tricolor. It just gives me such a lift whenever I see one. That is the power of pure color.

      Out of interest, the current Tricolor was selected from a competition by conservative President, Valery Giscard d'Estaing. Well done to him.

      Most flags are a bit weird.

    23. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 8 days ago

      I don't care about symbols, I care about substance. Did not Jesus say to the Pharasees, 'instead of being concerned about polishing the outside of the chalice, one should first seek to clean the inside of every vile and dirty thing'

      I wish that those that are so concerned about the integrity of the flag spend a little time trying preserve what that symbol and those high sounding words associated with it really mean in practice.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
        Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago in reply to this

        well, there is a good idea, Credence. … not to be Pollyannish, (who me? lol) but maybe he does!!!
        He he he … time will tell.. Its all so fascinating isn't it?

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 8 days ago in reply to this

          With someone like Trump, we can be sure that these glaring contradiction will come to forefront, sooner rather than later.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
            Kathryn L Hillposted 8 days ago in reply to this

            yes, the second day he is in office. sad 
            or first. sad sad

    24. ahorseback profile image45
      ahorsebackposted 7 days ago

      You are a Racist ; 
      Kathryn , Well there you have it  - Fact - If you love your country enough to feel some sense of pride in country , in it's people and in it's proud  history .  And so  , in the flag that represents  freedom .

      It's just That simple -Flag lovers are Racists.

      1. Stevennix2001 profile image83
        Stevennix2001posted 7 days ago in reply to this

        I don't think people that support the flag are racist, as I think anyone who thinks that is mistaken.  However, I do think that conservatives like yourself need to understand is that when you have a country that offers free speech, then you also have the right to be offended as well.   You can't have it both ways.  You can't expect to have free speech, and NOT hear one bad remark about something you like and/or support.  It doesn't work like that.

        Granted, I agree with you and many conservatives that burning the flag is disrespectful in a lot of ways to this country and our military.  However, we also have to think about what kind of precedent it would set moving forward if it starts with banning flag burning today. 

        Sure, today we might ban flag burning, but what about tomorrow?  If a comedian makes a joke about Donald Trump's sex life, then should he go to jail for insulting the president for laughs?

        If a filmmaker wants to make something that highlights the rise in police brutality, and the unfair racial tensions against a minority group in their next film, then should that person go to jail because you find it disrespectful to the police because it portrays them in a bad light? 

        The point is that it would set a bad precedent moving forward.  One that I'm not sure we should go towards because once we stop one form of free speech and peaceful protesting, then what happens to tomorrow?

      2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
        wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13301841.jpg

        Well good for you onhorseback! A brand new strawman for a brand new day. It's quite remarkable how the truth get's so twisted. I don't recall anyone but you suggesting that taking pride in your country makes you a racist. Your spin is getting a lot better, and that was quite smooth. Perhaps you could get some freelance work at Fox News. Anyone with an IQ over 95 should get the point I was making. I suggest asking one of them.

        For your information my father served  in WW II, and as you know I am a 6 year veteran. He didn't get any  respect from this racist system for his service, and neither did I. If I want to burn ten flags I have earned the right to do so. Donald Trump didn't even serve in the military, so he's got some awful big acorns to be going around acting like Mr Patriotic American. If he's so patriotic, then he can make history again by enlisting himself and his whole family when the next war starts.

        P.S. Your burning TP has no effect whatsoever. I find that far less offensive than a statue of Columbus, Mt.Rushmore, or the Statue of Liberty; especially the Statue of Liberty. Here's what the Statue of Liberty says to me:

        "Hey everybody! We've killed a majority of the natives and put the rest on reservations. And we freed the slaves cause they picked enough cotton to make us the greatest nation on Earth! So come on and enjoy this stolen continent with the rest of us good Christian folk!"

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 7 days ago in reply to this

          Thanks , WrenchBiscuit, you are on time and on point as always. The ogre President -elect talks about all the high sounding ideals the flag represents but is solely lacking in those traits himself. The biggest draft dodging plutocrat, ever. I have to suffer listening to the biggest chicken Hawk of all time lecturing the rest of us about courage and who he or she believes should be deported.

        2. ahorseback profile image45
          ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          Wrench , As one who's "served " maybe you do deserve the right to burn down all that you served for  .,So burn it down ,  BUT  to then cry like a baby because there is nothing left but a vacuum  in your people's world ?  Perhaps only serves to explain and define WHY  you are  the hypocrite you are.
          AS in every war in history -- you know  that thing that man  and woman learn to do right after they learn to move their arms --  There is a victor and there is a loser and  the Native Americans lost ,  Is there some complication in world  reality  - that you don't quite get ?


          http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13301872.jpg

          Wrenchbisquick ,a guy told me once , He "had an extremely high I.Q. so don't even try to debate him ",    just before he hit his forehead on the door jamb,  I picked him up afterwards and  laid him on the  table though ,so  kind of me huh ?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            I think the swallowing of his big head and little head has gone down some. He dose cover a lot of ground on problems and some other ways of thinking.

          2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13301922.jpg

            wrenchBiscuit rebukes Babylon:

            I am very glad you raised the issue of winning and losing. You have just illustrated the problem that many people of all races and nationalities have understanding the reality of violence and war. To say that I am "The White Man's Moses" may be accurate, but it is far too modest. It appears that I may be the hope of all mankind.

            No one has ever won a war. Everyone loses. The United States was formed as a result of a bloody war, and since then there has been one war after another. 250 years later the United States is still fighting wars. Even a fool can see by now that the purpose of war is to perpetuate war, not peace or freedom. Prostitution is the worlds oldest profession, and  war is the worlds most lucrative business.

            War can often lead to genocide, but war always leads to suicide. When you kill another man you are only killing yourself. And when you kill many men you are simply killing yourself over and over again, On the day that the War Pigs gather their opposing armies and prepare to fight, and the young soldiers on both sides of the battlefield turn their guns on their evil commanders,  that will be called Independence Day. Until then, we are all losers; every single one of us.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              Yes , war is unjust and solves nothing.

              I remember bill hick had a hillbillies fan came up to him after the his comedy show. The hillbillies said I like you to meet my sister and my wife , then he pointing over to one woman standing there.

            2. ahorseback profile image45
              ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              What a romantic view of the issue at hand ,  I'm impressed , must be that is why you knowingly , gratefully accepted and cashed in  those  paychecks for so many years from the originator of evil itself , How does it feel to be a government mule ?   You are right about war , its a bad thing and  so is prostitution , so is genocide , But so too is the elitist mentality of   pseudo-enlightenment of higher intelligence .  Your redneck photo , as is so often used when you lose the  debate , is a prime example .

              So too is the  assumption that you will ever cure so many of the evils of mankind , war , prostitution , murder ,mayhem and  even opinions are but the manifestations of mans incredibly twisted  ego and   I see that you've acquired yours .   Why don't you answer his  ; If you could cure all of these evils from mankind  , wouldn't you only do so from the evil white man . rather that way you could then reclaim all that has been taken from your people ? You are as guilty of being a great part of mankind  and all his evils as I or any man is  , now  I feel no shame in that ,   too bad that yours blinds you so much as to render you hypocritical and  naïve at once  .


              http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13301950.jpg

    25. cheaptrick profile image63
      cheaptrickposted 7 days ago

      It's a cycle.The qualities required to rise to the top in any area anywhere in the world are described in the DSM under Psychopath,just look it up.Our founding fathers knew it too.
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants"  Thomas Jefferson...Look him up too;He was a smart fella despite his flaws.
      Like some kind of evil cream,psychopaths rise to the top...then we all get more and more pissed until we wipe them out...to make room for the Next wave of psychopaths to begin their rise to the top...To break the cycle we must change Values not psychopaths...cause that's impossible...so far...

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        Your right too many psychopath ruling the world rather than people with ethics.

    26. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 7 days ago

      OldGloryophobes hurt my feelings. I need a safe place and a lego.

      1. ahorseback profile image45
        ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        That is just about right , When  needs for a "safe space " becomes  flag burning  or  riot , when liberals  get their under pants in a bunch , it all becomes clear.

        " The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood .................." I do love that one.

    27. cheaptrick profile image63
      cheaptrickposted 7 days ago

      Babylon?...Moses?...More!?
      It appears you are commenting from a religious perspective?Religion is responsible,overtly and covertly,for the Vast majority of wars fought thru out history...which took Hundreds of Millions of Lives!...can you say...Hypocrite?

      1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
        wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13302318.png

        wrenchBiscuit rebukes Baal and his emissaries

        It entirely escapes me how you and many others would arrive at such an erroneous conclusion. Perhaps that's why they call it the "mainstream": everyone being swept over the edge of the abyss in unison, and of one accord.

        It follows that you might  also believe that Stephen King and Quentin Tarantino are sadists and mass murderers because of the stories they tell, but these two talented individuals simply can't compare to the sadists and psychopaths who represent the American people in Washington D.C.. The use of metaphor, simile, or biblical quotations does not render anyone a Christian by default. Nor does it necessarily indicate that an individual subscribes to any partivular religion or philosophy. One reason I like Hubpages, in spite of the Nationalist and Racist rhetoric, is that many of the respondents are a cut above those you might find on Facebook or other social media platforms. Perhaps you made a wrong turn, or got off at the wrong bus stop.

        But in defense of Christianity I will say that not everyone who professes Christianity is a Christian. Pope Nicholas the V is respected by many Catholics, yet he was in many ways a greater tyrant than George Washington. His papal bull "Dum Diversas" laid the foundation for racism and white supremacy, the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, Manifest Destiny, and the genocide of over 100 million Indigenous. But when we look at the teachings of Jesus we see the antithesis of evil. Perhaps one day you will understand the difference.

        Evil always seeks to destroy the host from within. Did you ever hear of a man dying from his neighbors terminal cancer, or his neighbors heart attack?

        1. ahorseback profile image45
          ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

          Know who truly began slave trade ? African and Muslim Pirates  . Shocking news to you huh ?

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            You would think we have finally learn our Lesson by now. Yet there is more slaves on the earth now, than any other time in history. America brought slaves innso they could be free men. Now they just Lynch them and put them in prison or have them working for Corporation.

          2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

            http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13302394_f1024.jpg

            Although it is a related topic, your comment is irrelevant as far as my previous commentary is concerned. I made no mention of what race or culture was the first to introduce slavery. Good luck with that! Not only has slavery existed throughout recorded history in various parts of the world, including Europe, but there have been different varieties of slavery.

            For instance, the slavery practiced in the Americas was a form of Chattel Slavery that first introduced the new concept of racism. Chattel Slavery is one of the most severe forms of slavery. Nevertheless, my commentary is irrefutable. Pope Nicholas is the original architect of racism as we have come to know it. Once slavery had been sanctioned in writing by the Church, the Christian peasantry of Europe felt more at ease with the institution of slavery, as they were made to believe it was ordained by God. Consequently, the Trans-Atlantic slave trade met little resistance, and began to flourish. European provocateurs and opportunists also increased tensions, and fomented conflicts between various African tribes as a means of developing the market and increasing the supply. Such sights I have to show you ...  and so little time!

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 7 days ago in reply to this

              As far as I have seen, the first recorded instance of slavery is biblical, where God's People were instructed to take slaves.  Small surprise that the church later endorsed the practice, then.

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                wrenchBiscuitposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                Since the beginning of time there have been inter-dimensional or extra-terrestrial entities who have presented themselves to humans as Gods.  There are certain passages in the Christian Bible that clearly indicate that this is true. For instance, the story of the Tower of Babel is a direct reference to a time when men did not speak verbal languages, but communicated telepathically, which is a far more efficient form of communication. But alien entities feared that the human race was advancing too quickly and would either become a  threat, or would become increasingly difficultr to subjugate. Consequently, our DNA was altered and the majority of humans soon became unable to communicate telepathically, and so cumbersome verbal languages necessarily developed.

                These aliens aren't Gods, but have exerted their control over humanity throughout the ages. They are the ones who encouraged slavery and all manner of evil in the name of God. This is why people are so confused. There are many players in the game, and the human has complicated the matter by falsely assuming that he is at the top of the food chain. It is not hard to understand how such arrogance could blind us to the truth.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

                  Are these slave masters called Zionist?

                2. ahorseback profile image45
                  ahorsebackposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                  DOOO, do, doo , do, do doo , oo, do .
                  Yeeaa , ....The twilight zone exists right here in the minds of some  Hubbers .

                  1. Will Apse profile image89
                    Will Apseposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                    I worry, lol.

                  2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                    Some people says Aliens had sex with Zionist  and that is why Zionist is the Supremacy's being and is why they running the World like we are cattle or sheep.

                    I think Aliens are much more possible than Gods. Still don't think aliens have arrived yet, and Zionist are fully allowed to be mentally ill delusional with an insane amount of money. Making us dumber each day by polluting our minds, spirit and bodies.

                  3. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13303054.jpg

                    And that  is exactly what your oppressors want you to believe. A man who doesn't know that he is a slave will never attempt to free himself from bondage, because he clings to the illusion of freedom. Likewise, the little rabbit who believes that he is at the top of the food chain will not be watching for the hunter; the creeping devil  hidden amongst  the timothy and the hollyhock, about to take aim.

                    1. ahorseback profile image45
                      ahorsebackposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                      Why don't you explain the slavery that we happy  Americans are so oblivious to !  AS far as I'm concerned , I worked my whole life  doing what I chose ,  making a decent living  because I was  motivated to do so . Able to chose the profession  I wanted ,   Was I to expect  anarchy and utopia  too ?   Communism working side by side  with others in the community garden ,  were we to consider ourselves  enslaved to  our employment ?      Please do tell us how we are so blind as to not see the opportunity of our fathers America  ?

              2. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                So you not only believe in God but you are a Bible believer.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                  Oh yeah, that is wilderness,  a God slave. Lol.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image82
                    Live to Learnposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                    Apparently so. By his post.

                    Anyway, it's odd if they came out of four hundred years of slavery then that came first.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                      Can't Imagine a freight train like wilderness making a quick right hand turn into God.

                      He maybe a slave to the Corperation system.

                2. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                  Are you insinuating that anything in writing is true?  Being recorded does not make it so - it just indicates just that someone, somewhere, somewhen, wrote it down.  Or in this case, may have included it in the word of mouth tales passed down through generations.

        2. cheaptrick profile image63
          cheaptrickposted 5 days ago in reply to this

          I didn't say Christianity...you did.I generalized it to religion;the greatest scourge of human kind to ever occur.Also...I'd like to ask a question.Why is it that every,and I mean every,time we get a high powered intellectual,such as yourself,here on HP,do they constantly infer and imply their superiority by making arrogant narcissistic comments and feel the need to point out the inadequacies of everyone else in the forum?That chink in your personality seems to point to a deep seated insecurity probably rooted in a lonely isolated childhood where you were neglected by your parents and bullied on the playground...while all the little girls pointed at you and giggled...all due respect of course.

          1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 5 days ago in reply to this

            http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13304877_f1024.jpg

            First of all, the notion that I feel the need to point out the inadequacies of everyone else in the forum is pure fiction. The term "Everyone Else", can only be taken literally. And if anyone cared to study this thread they would clearly see that I have not done such a thing as you have falsely accused. Furthermore, your interpretation of my behavior is not based in reality. From my perspective,  I am simply exercising my freedom to express my viewpoint on a particular issue. The fact that it runs contrary to the mainstream does not necessarily indicate that my motivation is to point out anyone's inadequacy, although that may occur by default.

            Your attempt to "expose" my true nature, which according to you is revealed as an insecure, unattractive male who was neglected by his parents, ridiculed by little girls, and bullied on the playground is laughable. Many have tried this tactic before. But all it reveals is your own personal need.

            My school days were complicated because I had "too many" girlfriends. By the time I reached the tender age of 14, I was forced to grapple with the philosophical and moral implications of sexual promiscuity, but that can hardly be considered a curse by a 14 year old male whose hormones are raging to infinity. In fact, I thanked God for my good fortune, and considered my attractiveness and popularity to be a blessing. Furthermore, since human behavior is not far removed from the behavior of other primates such as monkey's and baboons, in spite of my occasional violent encounters with white racists, I was generally well liked, and my success with females placed me in the position of being a dominant male among my peers. Men and boys commonly respect other males who are successful at seducing females.

            Concerning my family: My natural mother was simply a cow, a means to an end. And my natural father was a rutting stag who was only half human. At the age of 16, my natural mother discarded me like a piece of trash or unwanted refuse on the day that I was born. But not unlike Moses, or just like in the story of Superman, the child who would grow into the superior man: The Ubermensch, was discovered and raised by a kind and loving older couple as their own son. It is they who became my "real" mother and father.

            My real father was a great mid-western farmer, and my real mother was a homemaker, a farmer, and a holy woman with unusual talents. I was showered with love and affection, and I was raised on a beautiful farm where I engaged in many battles with the European Invaders, and other Alien Forces. And of course, I always won. My parents never treated me like a stupid kid, but like an intelligent human being. And so, I was included in their conversations about the price of wheat, corn, beans, and other matters pertaining to the business of running a farm. There is no greater way to build the self-esteem of a child than to ask their opinion about the family business, as it makes them feel quite important. And they always told me how smart I was, which was not necessary, because I already knew I was smart. My first year in grammar school had convinced me of that. Let's face it, 2+2 isn't that much harder than 1+1, but I noticed early on that many of the kids were struggling with the basics. I also noticed early on that the most racist kids were usually also the dumbest kids. Just think "Deliverance", and you'll get the picture.

            In your first response you indirectly called me a hypocrite. Now with your second response you have added even more derogatory elements. Anyone seeking forgiveness should try door number 3 instead, because forgiveness will not be forthcoming behind door number 1. However, all I have done in your direction is to simply state my case. I did not say that you are my subordinate, but you have proven it yourself with your vicious and unprovoked attack on my character! An equal, or my superior, would have no need to challenge my status. Read and Learn.

            1. cheaptrick profile image63
              cheaptrickposted 4 days ago in reply to this

              Anyone with self confidence would not have felt the Need to go into self advertising mode with such a detailed story about there greatness so I chose door number one and to add to the ID of your makeup.
              Self loving ,large vocabulary,narcissistic troll...which takes nothing more than following this thread to see....Oh...I almost forgot pseudo intellectual who is just knowledgeable enough and verbose enough to intimidate decent people...but I don't include myself in that category and I'll be glad to take this exchange all the way to being banned from this forum if you care to?

              1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                wrenchBiscuitposted 4 days ago in reply to this

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13305831.jpg

                wrenchBiscuit responds to a vicious, and unprovoked attack

                That's funny. You are sorely mistaken if you think I would seek the assistance of a moderator. I have been  a champion of the free man and woman since before I was a man. In fact, I am a world champion!  I have dealt with evil face to face in the world of brick and mortar. It is amusing that you appear to  think that your vitriol is intimidating. Censorship is inherently evil, and I do not sleep with the devil, although he is my next door neighbor.  And so I deliver yet another great teaching. Let the world marvel at the depth of my understanding.

                First of all, I am in touch with God. What does that mean? It means I do not operate in these forums using a script. I simply read commentary and I respond. I understand that a monkey, a goat, or any number of farm animals might consider anything exceeding 9 words to be verbose, but Dr. Doolittle encouraged us to talk to the animals. And so, let us whistle while we work. And we would be remiss if we did not take this opportunity of living in the flesh to study the human inside and out. But there are many who do not want the people to empower themselves, as educated and enlightened  citizens are a grave threat to the status quo.

                Although I am a 6 year military veteran,  I do not worship the American flag. The flag is simply an abstraction; a rag that will fade and ultimately turn to dust. Many say they honor the flag because of what it represents. But if they understood American History they would know that it represents the murder of the young, the innocent, the old, the enslavement of mankind, and the destruction of the environment. It is also supposed to represent the freedom to burn the flag itself. A point that many Fascists have seemed to miss.

                Instead, I worship  God, and I am a defender of freedom. I am feared by the rapist, the murderer, and the thief , for I will continue to expose them until humanity rises up like a great Atlantic tide and swallows these evil forces up, down, sideways, and in-between. My heroes are not miscreants like George Washington , the anti-semite Henry Ford, or Columbus, all of whom brought death,  destruction, and untold misery into the world. Instead, my heroes are individuals like John Brown and Emma Goldman, Goyathlay, Harriet Tubman, and Tecumseh. I honor the Oceti Sakowin , the Cheyenne, and the Arapaho who took the arrogant George Armstrong Custer back to school,  and then sent him and his merry band of Invaders to meet Jesus. I honor the progeny of these great warriors who have presently confounded the Black Snake of DAPL, as well as those brave veterans who recently went to North Dakota to stand in solidarity with the Water Protectors; brave men and women who placed themselves in harms way to stand against the American forces of evil.

                Concerning your comment about self-confidence. This comment alone illustrates the depth, and the extent of mind control that exists here in the United States, and throughout the world. Mind control works best by exploiting the arrogant nature of men, and by  promoting ignorance, and low self-esteem. Throughout your lifetime you have been told the same lie over and over again, and as a result, today you defend that lie as if it were the truth. But nothing could be further from the truth. There is no guidebook for the self-confident man. The very notion is absurd. We are all unique and sovereign entities. It is foolish to expect that if a man feels this way about himself he will act that way, and if he feels that way about himself  he will behave in a different fashion. Sorry Jose , the world is not as black and white as you would like it to be.

                Donald Trump is a good example that further erodes your theory. Donald Trump has on many occasions bragged about his beautiful wife, and how successful he is. But according to you,  a man who incessantly brags about his beautiful wife and his success must necessarily have any ugly wife and a job at WalMart. Consequently, he must create a fiction in an  attempt to elevate himself. But I don't know anyone working checkout at Walmart who could afford to live at Trump Tower. And we have all seen his wife.

                Furthermore,  you have implied that such behavior as bragging about yourself is socially unacceptable. However, Donald Trump was just elected President of the United States. Obviously you are not aware , but there are many sexy and intelligent men like me living throughout the United States; men  who have had a great childhood, who are not billionaires, and who have had access to many beautiful females since before the age of puberty. It is God who has bestowed upon me all of these gifts. And so I am not ashamed to tell the world that I have been continually blessed throughout my lifetime. It is only God who has given me intelligence.It is only God who has made me irresistible to women. It is only God who has filled my heart with love and compassion. God is great! And there are none greater.


                I am Ronnie wrenchBiscuit ... My father was a great mid-western farmer ... My mother was the maker of Strong Medicine ... I am feared by evil-doers throughout the land ... I am envied by small minded men whose attributes are even smaller.


                Please, feel free to express yourself, as I will welcome your words. However, based on previous commentary, I fear you have very little to say. Vitriol is like cabbage or bean flatulence. It may feel good as the putrid gas is freed from the confines of the inner bowel and explodes into the open air, but it always leaves a very bad smell.

                1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                  Castlepalomaposted 4 days ago in reply to this

                  Very few guys on these hubpages have the guts to stand tall confronting these real criminals organization running the country as you do. As for many good people are locked up and worst kind of people get the wealth and power.

                  I can overlook your sometimes swelled head. If can withstand the wrath of these criminal organization when thing get much worst to come in the USA. Then your more frontline braver than me, my problem is I'm bluntly too honest and have envision of getting myself kill for a slip of the tonque.

                  If I'm unable to sent you (one of the first) care packages from Bolivia, my spirit will be with you.

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 4 days ago in reply to this

                    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13299258.jpg

                    wrenchBiscuit reaches out to Bolivia ... explains the Tiki Bar System ... and prays for death

                    Thank You, I agree that dark days are  ahead. I feel bad for the little children. I have had my wonderful childhood and I have had many great adventures as an adult. But many children are suffering now, and many more will continue to suffer and die so that a few greedy people can have the pleasure of ruling the world, and so that a whole lot of greedy people beneath them can pick up the scraps from the rich man's table. It is no wonder that Donald Trump was so popular. If he had been preaching peace and love he could have never stayed in the race.

                    I have worked as an entertainer most of my adult life. I have found that  Tiki Bar (A ) with a great band and great food will always attract the regulars. But the tourist who doesn't know the area will commonly drive past Tiki Bar (A) if there are only a few cars out front, and instead stop at  Tiki Bar (B) down the street that may have a terrible band, a lousy menu,  but lots of cars out front. Why? Because people go to people. They are easily fooled by the numbers, and they feel that if there are a lot of cars in the parking lot it must be a popular place. Thus, they are more attracted to Tiki Bar (B) than Tiki Bar (A). This is why many bar owners will give certain regulars perks and discounts to show up early on a Friday or Saturday night, or on a Sunday Afternoon. The "paid" customers help fill the parking lot in order to prime the pump. The tourists drive by, see all the cars, and Bingo! They pull in to see what all the excitement is about. If Ronnie wrenchBiscuit is playing they usually stay and spend money. If they are single women and very lucky, they might get to go home with me. Now we are talking about a win-win situation. So what is my point? I say that to say this: There is a very important rule in life that we must never forget:

                    Money goes to money
                    People go to people
                    Evil goes to Evil
                    Goodness goes to Goodness


                    This is why Donald Trump was elected, and why Hillary Clinton could have been elected instead.They both represent evil in their own special way. All of the people who voted for either of them have a stake in this evil system. And whether the people who voted are inherently evil or not is beside the point. The point is, they have been born into an evil system not of their making , and many feel they have no alternative. Consequently, they are hoping that an evil system can bring goodness and prosperity into their life. But a man who robs a bank and accidentally kills a bank teller, not out of greed, but because his children are starving , has still committed a great sin. The woman he accidentally killed was a widowed single mother with 3 children. The American voter who votes for a tyrant or "the lesser evil" out of desperation may not be inherently evil, but to fulfill their needs they have willingly laid down with the devil. And by doing so they indirectly help to perpetuate murder, rape, pedophilia, poverty, and war. As such, they are an accessory to crimes against humanity. Thus, the rule is maintained and justified: Evil goes to Evil

                    The greedy among the working class will never acknowledge the evil of this Capitalist World Order. They live with the hope that they can continue to accumulate more and more material wealth through this corrupt and evil system. Considering that we will all eventually end up in  a cemetery somewhere, or a funeral urn sitting on a shelf, the importance many place on the  accumulation of material wealth is quite pathetic.The importance that many place on nationalism and flag burning is equally pathetic.I suppose their fear of death is so great that such trivial pursuits help to keep their mind occupied and in denial.

                    But I am not afraid of death. In fact I am more afraid of living. I will be glad when I die, and everyday I pray that it will be my last. I pray that I will die in my sleep and wake up dead in a better world. I have known enough beautiful women ... I have drank the good whiskey and rum ... I have seen enough beautiful sunsets on the beach... Now I am ready to see the end.

                    1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                      Castlepalomaposted 4 days ago in reply to this

                      To not be afraid of death is a big thing. For life don't be afraid and go out and live every last second of  it.  Your own song must be sung.

    28. Sam Shepards profile image90
      Sam Shepardsposted 7 days ago

      People should be able to do this, allthough it is completely pointless. In my opinion you should also be able to burn "holy" books if you would like to do that. It's stupid of course, unless you are dying from cold and you need a fire.

      It's all just symbols and construct. You just incite more polarity instead of resolution and progress.

      1. ahorseback profile image45
        ahorsebackposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        ".............except resolution and progress "...........You mean like has  been entirely promoted by the left the last fifty years  ?   That , no resolution and progress ?

        As you mature ,You will notice that conservatism doesn't burn , kill cops  , riot , protest and  demonstrate much !

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 7 days ago in reply to this

        I would burn a whole bag of paper money, if it means to not freeze to death. If it was a rich man he would hold on to his money for warmth and freeze to death.

    29. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 6 days ago

      Burning the American flag insults groups of people. Apparently political correctness is selective, discriminatory and deceptively used.

      1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
        wrenchBiscuitposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13303040.jpg

        wrenchBiscuit rebukes evil

        The military, at least on paper, exists to protect the freedom of the American people, according to what is laid out in the Constitution. When people are freely burning flags it is a clear indication that a certain degree of freedom is being maintained. What is insulting to veterans is the fact that tens of thousands died to destroy Fascism, yet many Americans today are promoting a Fascist agenda. Furthermore, minorities are constantly being accused of "whining" and "playing the victim". Now whose whining and playing the victim?

        When the shoe is on the other foot it doesn't seem to fit so well. But when enlightened human beings of all races protest against evil racist Holidays and Colonialism, the Sons of the Pioneers are quick to say "Get Over It". And so, that is my suggestion for those who become sexually aroused every time they see Old Glory flying in the breeze: GET OVER IT. None of the people who are whining about flag burning have made a peep about the disgusting celebrations of Thanksgiving and Columbus Day. People who burn flags are commonly protesting injustice, murder, and genocide, and they are said to be Anti-American. But people who glorify Colonialism, death, and destruction are called "Patriots". Apparently, it truly is Anti-American to burn the flag, because a true American agrees with all that the flag stands for: Manifest Destiny, Thievery, Murder, Rape, Slavery, Sadism, Genocide, Imperialism, Capitalism, and Colonialism.

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 6 days ago in reply to this

          WB, I going to have to make a copy of that poster.

          We all know that racism and its real effects trumps offense wise the burning a piece of cloth before someone.

          1. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 6 days ago in reply to this

            https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ff/1b/6e/ff1b6e9005ff1356a4140f64292e5a9a.jpg
             
            Tell us how you would legislate the hearts of men. Racism and its effects beg the question.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 6 days ago in reply to this

              We can't legislate what is in the hearts of racists but we can control their actions under the law. That is as good as it gets...

              1. PhoenixV profile image80
                PhoenixVposted 6 days ago in reply to this


                Still begging the question. There is just a human heart.  I think it best that only the capable of peering into the heart make the determinations.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 6 days ago in reply to this

                  Please elaborate on your position....

                  1. PhoenixV profile image80
                    PhoenixVposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                    Whats to elaborate. We can speculate or guess peoples motives or intent. We cannot possibly know what is in someones heart. We cannot possibly know the happenstance or have walked in anyone elses shoes.


                    There is only one Judge. That is my position.

          2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
            wrenchBiscuitposted 6 days ago in reply to this

            http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13303216.jpg

            I agree  Of course it does.  And the meme that follows it is quite predictable. The intended take away from the Goyathlay meme is that some native people are so filled with hate toward the white man that they even hate the snow !

            Goyathlay's entire family was brutally murdered by Colonialist Mexicans, in other words white Europeans, The Apache were also murdered and dispossessed by the Americans. In other words, white Europeans. Considering the overall reaction to 9/11, it is fascinating that racists will justify their own anger, but will then turn around and condemn others for experiencing the same emotion. What makes it even more remarkable is that the white man in this country never suffered 400 years of chattel slavery followed by 100 years of Jim Crow, followed by continued racist oppression. Neither were they systematically exterminated with the remainder being placed on reservations. And after all of that they don't have to witness and endure celebrations that honor and commemorate the injustices perpetrated against their people year after year. Yes, it is quite remarkable because the horrific events of one day resulting in the deaths of nearly 3,000 Americans were enough for them to start a bloody war. But on the other hand, according to the racist, over 500 years of abuse, and the genocide of over 100 million, is not enough to justify hate or anger!

            How many days are in 500 years? 182,500 days! And so, let the racist Americans multiply the anger of 9/11 X 182,500. When they do they will understand that the African and the Indigenous are  very patient and peaceful people; peace loving people who just might have some bad feelings about America.

            1. Castlepaloma profile image23
              Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago in reply to this

              Not William Tell who can never tell a lie, if it meant to save my skin , I could lie, just can't live a lie.  Whites may think I'm a trader, but white American have been attacking brown nations by far more than any other race.

              Endless 500 year native struggling over land and treaties. Now it is the brown wars in the Middle East and South America is very anti America, so I'm there for real peace and nature.

              The 9/11 has overwhelming evidence it was an inside Job. 
              1st. Motivation , there is alot of the world that has negatively hatred for America. Yet Israel had a positive motivation to attrack Muslims countries and to steal their oil. To create general war between Christians and Muslims.

              2. Logistic , vast majority demolition expert say it would have taken three months to hook up explosive to bring down a building that big and strong straight downward. Plus the third building never got hit by anything.

              3. Security. Israel security company for all buildings and the airport where the planes took off from. They could not possible miss every explosive set up on each floor and all the endless transportation in and out of the building. Plus Building has recently max out on insurance on the buildings.

              When they create false flags and they will have many more to come and frame up.  It is such a petty thing to act like the protest of a tiny burning flag are the criminals. When the burning flag draws attention to the real worst criminals organization on the planet.

            2. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 6 days ago in reply to this

              The indigenous Americans gave Europe syphilis. The Europeans gave them small pox. Syphilis still rages on. Should we blame the Indian?

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                There was a whole of disease the white gave the natives on purpose like smallpox wrapping in the blanket they gave. They got some revenge sharing their tobacco and letting them rape their women. Lol.

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 6 days ago in reply to this

                  I was referring more to the first encounters. Mostly in South America. It is guesstimated that up to 90%    of the indigenous population was killed off by small pox. Estimates for how many Indian deaths in North America, attributable to being killed by the colonizers after the formation of the    American government, ranges around 8,000. No where near the millions upon millions he had decided on.

              2. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                wrenchBiscuitposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13304175.jpg

                Over 100 million Indigenous died as a result of the European Invasion. It is the greatest holocaust in the history of the world. I have been a student of history since I was a child. Instead of wasting my time at amusement parks on the weekends or watching cartoons, my parents would often take me to the public library so that I could study metaphysics and history, which were the two subjects I was most interested in.  I have studied the historical record from both sides of the fence. I have spent as much time studying white racist viewpoints as I have the viewpoints of human beings. Many of you "Google" facts in order to support a racist narrative, but I am not moved by revisionist historical "facts". I have heard all of the lies, the distortions, and many variations on the theme.

                Your question raises an absurd and irrelevant argument which reveals very little research or consideration. Your argument fails on several counts.

                1. There is still debate among scholars concerning the origin of the disease, and there is no definitive proof of whether or not it existed in pre-Columbian Europe. However, because of the Eurocentric bias that has existed throughout the public school system since forever, any such proclamations that cast a negative light on the Indigenous are highly suspect. Furthermore, the racist views of many members of the clergy during the 19th century, as well as the popular psuedo-science of that era which "proved" the black race and other races were inferior to the white race, only further erodes the credibility of such claims.

                2. If , for the sake of argument, your claim is true, it has no relevance to my commentary whatsoever. My commentary relates to the premeditated and systematic slaughter, dispossession,and subjugation of one race of people by another. The Indigenous populations of this continent did not travel to Europe seeking to conquer the white race and infect them with disease. It is documented and well agreed upon that Columbus and the evil Spaniards were prolific rapists and pedophiles.

                It must also be understood that the Taino people whom Columbus originally encountered had very good hygiene, and bathed on a regular basis. But the crew of Columbus ,like many Europeans during the 15th century, commonly bathed only once every 3 months, and sometimes even less. We can hardly imagine that native women would have had consensual sex with such filthy men; walking sewers with rotten teeth who smelled of over-ripe feces, sweat, and fermented urine. I suspect that swine would have been less "aromatic". If it is true that some of these men were infected with a venereal disease as the result of raping Indigenous women, then their affliction was well deserved.

                3. Blame is defined as follows:

                Blame: assign responsibility for a fault or wrong; to say or think that a person or thing is responsible for something bad that has happened.

                By examining this definition, and by reflecting on the context of my commentary, and your previous posts over the last several months, I can clearly see that you are presenting the word "blame" in an attempt to  make the word also represent evil. Here you have misrepresented the word in order to demean a race of people. For instance:

                A.
                If a man standing along side a road purposely throws a rock at a man going by on a motorcycle and hits the man in head, and the man on the motorcycle loses control, crosses the line, and runs head-on into an Cement Mixer, we can say that the man who threw the rock is to blame.

                B.
                If a motorist has a heart attack and crosses the lane into oncoming traffic, killing a family of four, he is also to blame.


                In both scenarios,  A and B, we see that both men were to blame. However, even though the motorist who had the heart attack killed an entire family, versus the man throwing the rock who only killed one. When we consider the circumstances we understand that perpetrator A is evil, whereas perpetrator B was simply the unfortunate victim of a heart attack which caused an horrific and fatal accident. This is a clear case of Apples v Oranges. Consequently, it is impossible for us to raise a valid argument suggesting that "B" either justifies or mitigates "A".

                In other words, the question you have asked is not only irrelevant, but it reveals a calculated attempt to defend the indefensible, and to perpetuate the myth that the European Invasion was populated by god fearing, good hearted, and hard working individuals seeking to escape religious persecution, and the tyranny of the European Aristocracy.

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                  It isn't a calculated attempt to defend the indefensible. It's basically pointing out how ridiculous your complaints come off.

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                    You are good at providing your derogatory retorts of 20  words or less. But your succinct commentary is like Ginger Ale without the fizz: clear, with little taste or substance. Since you rely so heavily on vitriol, it would be interesting if you offered an opposing viewpoint without it. Of course, in order to do that you would necessarily have to take the time to educate yourself and form an opinion.

                    1. Live to Learn profile image82
                      Live to Learnposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                      I am educated with an opinion. I am not inclined to waste time grand standing. You aren't, in my opinion, interested in an opposing opinion. My only point is to make you aware of the fact that believing something doesn't make it so.

        2. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 6 days ago in reply to this

          You would almost have a point as infinitesimally likely that that is if I was advocating censorship

    30. ahorseback profile image45
      ahorsebackposted 6 days ago

      So , If it's just okay to burn the American flags  , Then why should we stop there , Lets burn the flags of the middle east ; It's  only cloth right ?
      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13303427.png

      And while we're at it lets burn the flag of Gay pride America ; I mean its just a symbol right ? Only cloth ?

      http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13303428.gif

      While we are protesting the meanings others give to pride , Lets burn all of the Native American wampum belts that hold their history and tribal meanings.: It's just stuff right , only symbols ?

      http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13303431.jpg

      Before any of us notice  , there will no longer be any symbols of pride in any peoples !  So why stop there ?   When we have finally  burned all the flags  , WE can then gravitate to  burning churches , public buildings and  hospitals , they are only symbols  aren't they ?.   As long as we don't  hurt anyone !

      1. Credence2 profile image85
        Credence2posted 6 days ago in reply to this

        Don't be ridiculous, destruction of private and public property are not protest but vandalism, arson, or what have you. My AMERICAN flag is my private property to use as toilet paper or to burn as I would like. What is so inane about the conservative is to link some meaning of the cloth to the nation itself, ignoring the rights that so many of you would just as soon discard to protect the physical integrity of the cloth.

        Freedom of expression, 1st amendment, is not absolute just like every other amendment. But, I expect the right to protest in this way to be restricted only by the danger it poses to others. Screaming fire in a crowded theatre is an example of a valid exception. Burning a piece of cloth  that belongs to me on my private property, in a way not posing a physical or property threat is not such an exception.

        Even Antonin Scalia acknowledged the futility of these silly flag burning bans.

        I am interested in the content of the box, not the pretty material that it is wrapped in.......

      2. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        Burning a gay rainbow flag from a homophobic or and burning Muslim flags from a soldiers would like grinding salt into a wounds. Why not just bomb them some more and cross burn all these people of color  or gay some more to prove yourself right and then wrong.

        I wonder where you get these ideas from, your as_.

        1. ahorseback profile image45
          ahorsebackposted 5 days ago in reply to this

          But you don't get it  OR truthfully ,you don't care that that same principles apply to the American flag for many, many , people ?  How shallow to be  insulted by someone else's  pride in a flag ---and all that it represents to them .

          The American culture of the spoiled and entitled left is moving away from pride in county , in self , in any  true national identity . AND further and further from  an adherence  of national pride ., you ignore law , tradition and any level whatsoever of common sense !  And you tell me my idea's come from my
          a $$ !

          If you can to break the law burn the American flag in protest  --- I can burn anything that represents anyone else's sense of pride , tradition and love of self Can I knot  ?    Don't be so shallow .

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

            I sculpture an Americans history display untitled. The Fabric of America in sand sculptures showing most famous and iconic displays of Americans history. Each flag of stars and strips in their time period that wrapped around displays like statue of Liberty, Mount Rushmore , Thomas Einstein, Martin Luther King, the Wright Brothers and so on . That is a positive experience with an American flags made enjoyable and proud highlight moments in time.

            When America destroy an entire muslim country and then steal there historical artifacts and entire way of life and very lives. Then wave their America flag in front our their faces. Then a Muslim deserve to burn that Americans flag for it disgrace, dishonorable and ultimately shame upon their nation.

            1. ahorseback profile image45
              ahorsebackposted 5 days ago in reply to this

              Then we deserve to burn theirs !!!!!,  That sure goes against your P.C. bible   learning's and teaching's though I realize , huh ?     Leftist ideology sure  is the most shallow pool in the river ,  Too bad the new liberals can't swim in the deep end  of the world !

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                I don't know what a leftest ideology is. But put me in any deep waters around the world with your worst water or land sharks ever and I will swim circle around them because I got international records go prove it.

        2. Live to Learn profile image82
          Live to Learnposted 5 days ago in reply to this

          So, if burning a flag hurt someone's feelings that's wrong?

          I suppose it's ok to hate us but if we were to consider doing anything which might give someone the opportunity to find a way to be offended, that's wrong. Even if it is exactly the same thing they are arguing in defense of doing themselves.

          Sounds as if your ideas are originating exactly where you think ahorseback's do.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

            A law in comedy is a white comic can put down  any part of his race. Yet the comic has to be add caution not to put down other races, gays and even women. Yet other races can put down white people because they already too high and all mighty to entitlement or some are bullies.

            About 75 countries gays is illegal and 11 countries it's the death penalty. You burn a rainbow flag that would add insaut to injury. But who is going to sue them for it, no-one.

            You burn a Muslim country flag where America has burn down a village to save a village or burn down a country to save a country. Adds only more insanity to the one American soldiers who should be there at all. To where one dead Americans kills mostly innocent 1000  Muslims in exchange or a lot more Muslims %.

            All onesided moral,, ethics and propaganda.

            1. Live to Learn profile image82
              Live to Learnposted 5 days ago in reply to this

              OK. So, because you see reason to hate America then anything goes. Insult, or injury is OK. Got it.

              1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                I'm not into hate at all, why do so many use that word so loosely. Just when I observed unattached,  to harmful events, onesidedness and bully acts. I would be plain stupid not to verbally confront them on their behavior or support of physical harm they do onto others.

                Sometime I feel like an adult Alien from another planet talking mischievous children and some harmful brats that call me crazy. Being thick skin I can handle verbal attack of any kind of crazy assumtions. Just when people are obviously support and actions of harm , you can be sure I will call you on it. Nobody here can insult me because if their comments was true,  I would be already working on the adjustments.

                1. Live to Learn profile image82
                  Live to Learnposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                  You have a definite skewed outlook. Good for the goose, not good for the gander philosophy. That type of mentality breeds animosity and hatred. So if you aren't into hate, you are doing all you can to perpetrate it. Strange, to say the least.

                  1. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                    I been a world class athlete and artist most of life. Raise up hundreds of Canadain flags and sometimes American team flags during world and international championships. What different dose it make what country flag I put up in the air. When it  has vastly credited to an individual work ethics who earn their dues that gave them that positive recognition and experience. Did not promote any Religious and Political fairytales, although did have many politician's stealing the highlight for their own gain.

                    Through all these adventure, nobody on hubpages or any where in world can prove with any evidence that I broken my two and only simple rules. Don't harm and be honest.

                    The only person I ever said in my life, I hated was my father at age 8,. The same time a through out all my military toys and because someone had to be an adult for my abusive bully Dad.

                    Always helping the underdog and always confronting abusive bullies is not an act of hate. Yet an act of stubborn love for all earthlings.

    31. ThelmaC profile image91
      ThelmaCposted 6 days ago

      I am a member of the Honor Guard in my community.  It consists of Veterans with me being the only non-Veteran (I am a former military wife).  I am what is called a Memorial Lady.  I attend the funerals of all of our local Veterans and present a sympathy card to the widow.  We give a gun salute, play Taps on the bugle and fold the flag which is presented to the widow.
      I have watched the flag being folded 68 times this year with tears stinging my eyes at the sound of Taps.  I can honestly say that the flag is sacred and there should be punishment for anyone mistreating it.  I believe that anyone disagreeing with that has never had a flag presented to them in honor of a deceased loved one.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 6 days ago in reply to this

        Do you think that the widows would rather have the flag or their husbands?

        Honestly, if people could take a more rational view of their flags (and other peoples) there will a lot fewer war widows around the globe.

        1. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 5 days ago in reply to this

          American families in the service can be very resolute. Would the husband allow his life to be traded for a flag if it meant his wife had to live in a subway or his children were in dire need of dental care? I think not.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image23
            Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

            People and families loose on both sides of a war because wars are unjust and solves nothing. 

            The $ winner are the rich yet without honest service for humanity, they loose their their happiness and soul.

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 5 days ago in reply to this

              Just curious. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most offended,  how insulted or offended is the average American over their flag being burned? Then on a scale of 1 to 10 how offended will someone be if a muslim or rainbow flag is burned?

              1. Credence2 profile image85
                Credence2posted 5 days ago in reply to this

                Phoenix, what is it that they say? Sticks and stones may break my bones..... The idea of the first amendment includes speech that many may find offensive. If some one lit a burning cross in the yard next door, I may find it offensive but that in itself is not unlawful.

                Burning my country's flag is not my cup of tea, but just because I dissaprove does not mean it should be unlawful. That is the problem with conservatives, we have to worship their God, consider abortion rights exclusively from their perspectives, etc.

              2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                When a person gose through the trouble to build a large sculpture of Trump and burn within a crowd, Trump should be cautious. I can't imagine anyone building a sculpture of me then burning it with my harmless record. Personally I can't give a hoot for a material or cloth burning, it would not represents all the work I have done, as long as I have done no harm, I can do anything I want.

                Not being and American, gay or Muslims I can only imagine being in their shoes. Since number one fear in America is public speaking that is a small degree more Offensive than burning a flag of any kind. If someone was burning a fag or Muslims at the stakes that should be offensive to everyone in the planet as world citizens. I can't even get more than two people on these hubpages to give even a hoot about million  Muslims children that have been killed by Americans. Yet a peace of materials burning hurts the heart and soul of Americans. How cheap, synthetic shameful and indecent can another human being be?.

                1. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                  But that is not what you said. One post you say or imply that it is different to burn ones symbol as compared to anothers symbol. Now you are suggesting you dont really care about pieces of material. Which is it?

                2. PhoenixV profile image80
                  PhoenixVposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                  Just curious, regarding possible collateral casualties. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being giving the most hoot and 1 being the least hoot, how much hoot does the average person on HB give?

                  1. wrenchBiscuit profile image88
                    wrenchBiscuitposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                    http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13304363.jpg

                    I would suspect the average "hoot" would be in the negative numbers:

                    Average hoot  HB participants give for  Veterans: -1.5

                    Average hoot  HB participants give for  the Homeless : -3.0

                    Average hoot  HB participants give for Collateral damage: -5.0

                    Average Hoot HB participant's give for Black Lives Matter: -8.0

                      Average Hoot HB participant's give for Jesus: -20.0 

                  2. Castlepaloma profile image23
                    Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                    Since American is not a real country anymore because a President represents a corporation, not a Country. America has been a fully functional US CORP since 1913. The US media and US Justice system and US Government are all under UNITED STATE your ID name in capital letters too. You and everything is run by Corporation . To rate a corporation feeling on how important is a burning of an American flag from 1 to 10 is.  On an over offended aggressive, pride and blind false flag level - give it a 8 after the dollar collapses I give in 3.

                    As far as I can imagine a guesstimates of a Muslims or gays burning of their flags. It would be more personally feeling than of bussiness grab. Give them a 6, muslim and gays are not too materialtic  yet would fear more for there safty. If dollar collapses, their survival would be more important again for sure.

                    1. Live to Learn profile image82
                      Live to Learnposted 5 days ago in reply to this

                      So, in your opinion, any American who doesn't claim minority status is simply part of a corporation and not worthy of considerate respect.

                      Good to know.

    32. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 6 days ago

      I would put my life on the line if some America troops or anyone try attack my family to kill them.

      I can completely understand when Muslims person kills American soldiers because they come in their country soil, destroys their home, then kills their family and children. That is against international law and 9 time out of 10 is murder in a uniforms. Then an American will steals their oil, resources and their way of life. Then an American will wave a American flag and brag how great America is. All in the name of God, Greed and Guns.

      Why support the Troops as they kill poor people. Why not have a flag of Satan and call the place your stealing, hell on earth. Because when you kill someone, a good part of your soul dies too. I am sure Jesus would never have approve of killing of sick and poor. As fast as your killing muslim. Jesus would be going around healing them and telling you to stop , at the same time he wound be yelling at your bankers. Then Jesus would tell your soldiers to take off those gold crosses around their necks because they are false idols and remind him of a very bad day. Jesus would care about your false flag, America was not even in his Bible..

    33. ahorseback profile image45
      ahorsebackposted 5 days ago

      What's good for  the goose IS good for  the gander !

      That is the point .-----Funny ---the left can't absorb that ideal  ,  How shallow .is that ?

    34. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 5 days ago

      No need for feelings, liberty or impartiality. The liberal will decide all these things for you. Usually based upon their revisionist oftentimes conspiratorial and or personal history.

    35. PhoenixV profile image80
      PhoenixVposted 5 days ago

      It seems that some of us possess an uncanny ability to know who is offended who is not offended and to what degree they are offended. They know who cares who does not care and to what degree they care. They know who gives a hoot who does not give a hoot and to what degree they give a hoot. I wonder where they are pulling these ****** figures from. Are they just guessing or should they market these abilities.

      Edit.
      Oops goofle voice gotta mind of its own. I meant just figures not action figures.

    36. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
      Kathryn L Hillposted 5 days ago

      survival of the fittest is natural in the human course of events.
      The fittest will always overcome the unfit. Is it possible that the fit can burn themselves out and the new "fit" will emerge or
      ... re-emerge?

      ~ well, Im sure it happens all the time.

      1. Castlepaloma profile image23
        Castlepalomaposted 5 days ago in reply to this

        Going backward with this survive of the fittest, like if your fittest can stand up to a nuclear war.  I prefer the most diverse approach be the world champions of hide and seek. You will always find someone eles who is meaner and fitter from your best.

    37. 61
      havaalanitransfeposted 4 days ago
    38. LoisRyan13903 profile image72
      LoisRyan13903posted 4 days ago

      I do.  People who burn the flag in protest think they are burning t for a cause, for example showing their hate for the president elect.  However, when they burn the flag they are disrespecting every person who served in the military, people who served.  The U.S. is the land of the free because of the brave.

    39. Castlepaloma profile image23
      Castlepalomaposted 4 days ago

      I don't understand why a fabric, material or Corporations are more important the vast majority of peoples character.

      Corporatism energy vampire has slowly drained your souls for decades and people fear them so much to the point they can not confront them. Corporatism has sucked out :The land of the Brave: and replace it with :Land of bankers and psychopathic greedy:. They will continue sucking everything you got and the land you live upon. When they can get you all busy fighting each over a peace of fabric, like other hand and shell/ball games, they will steal the shirt Right off your Back.

     
    working