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How did 3,000,000 (Million!!!) illegal aliens vote in California?

  1. dianetrotter profile image82
    dianetrotterposted 40 hours ago

    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13300742_f520.jpg
    Some people say President Obama told illegal aliens they can vote.  It is reported that 3,000,000 did just that in California.  What about Arizona?  What about Florida?  How can that happen?  The Governor of North Carolina is suspicious about the vote that took him out of office.  He wants a recount.

    1. Live to Learn profile image80
      Live to Learnposted 38 hours ago in reply to this

      Is this from a reputable source or more internet conspiracy theory drama?

      I go by the old adage don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. I would think if they knew now that illegals were voting they'd have known before the election.

      I honestly think the right is setting the stage to claim the election was stolen if the recounts go against them.  Too bad though. It wouldn't create as much news if it does. Republicans aren't big into rioting.

      1. dianetrotter profile image82
        dianetrotterposted 38 hours ago in reply to this

        Hi Live, It depends on who you listen to.

        VIDEO: OBAMA 'ENCOURAGES ILLEGALS TO VOTE'

        http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/obama-encour … s-to-vote/ 

        Jerry Brown Signs Bill That Could Let Illegal Aliens Vote

        http://www.breitbart.com/california/201 … iens-vote/

        Any person who renewed or secured a driver’s license through the DMV may now register to vote, or choose to opt out of doing so. Because illegal immigrants are now eligible for obtaining driver’s licenses, they could be allowed to vote in elections if the Secretary of State’s office fails to verify their eligibility properly.

        Brown and the California Democratic party know exactly what they are doing; as a Public Policy Institute survey showed, among unregistered adults, 49% lean toward the Democratic Party and 22% toward the Republican Party. Any bill permitting illegal immigrants to vote would cement the Democratic Party’s hold on California.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 38 hours ago in reply to this

          Interesting.  Politics in America, and particularly liberal states, has become a game.  A game where ethics, honesty, the law and integrity are all set aside in order to get what will benefit those in power.

          This type of thing (playing games with voting rules in order to gain political advantage in this case) is exactly why Trump was elected.  And California, as an entire state, is continuing the same garbage the people of the nation rejected.

          The Democratic party appears to have learned little, at least at this point.  Perhaps they need a stronger lesson than losing both houses and presidency?

          1. dianetrotter profile image82
            dianetrotterposted 37 hours ago in reply to this

            I thought your name is on a list of registered voters.  You go in, sign the register, show your id and vote.  If that is the case, how can there be illegal voting.

            If that is not the case, the voting system IS a mess!  I'm in California.  I hadn't heard of the issue until an hour ago when I looked it up.

            I've been voting absentee for 20+ years.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 35 hours ago in reply to this

              Liberals have long fought any state requiring id in order to vote.  The theory is that poor people are too poor to get a free ID, or that they are too stupid to do so.

              But California; apparently that list is generated from drivers licenses.  If you have a license, you're on the list of registered voters; all you have to do is produce that license and you're in.  It's a great way to get lots of new liberal voters - that they are not citizens is beside the point.

              1. mrpopo profile image88
                mrpopoposted 34 hours ago in reply to this

                "The theory is that poor people are too poor to get a free ID, or that they are too stupid to do so."

                The soft bigotry of low-expectations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs

              2. promisem profile image93
                promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

                Entirely false. All states require some form of proof according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, which are mostly controlled by Republicans:

                http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections- … er-id.aspx

                Regarding California: "While this law does automatically register CITIZENS to vote when obtaining or renewing a driver's license, this only applies to CITIZENS who are already eligible to vote." - Snopes

            2. promisem profile image93
              promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

              Yes, you are exactly right. Extremists claim otherwise.

              1. Live to Learn profile image80
                Live to Learnposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

                I have a girl who works for me. She is a felon. She is not supposed to vote. She received a voter ID card in the mail. Apparently everyone who gets a driver's license in this state gets a voter card. I know, for a fact, that illegals have driver's licenses in this state. So, it appears that it is possible for an illegal to vote. It is possible for a felon to.

                It would be nice if everything was on the up and up, legal and according to laws on the books. Life is not that simple. I find it hard to believe that millions of illegals can vote but it appears that it may be possible. It is certainly something to check into and ensure it isn't happening. I realize as a Democrat you wouldn't consider that to be in the best interests of your goals but right is right. Isn't it?

                1. promisem profile image93
                  promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

                  Convicted felons can vote in many states: https://exoffenders.net/felon-voting-rights/

                  Some states also allow illegals to get drivers' licenses. Having a driver's license does not automatically allow you to vote.

                  I am not a Democrat. I am a right of center independent and former Republican who is disgusted by how far right the party has moved.

        2. promisem profile image93
          promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

          The fact that Breitbart started this rumor is laughable. It is owned by Steve Bannon, the same guy who is now in the White House with Trump.

          It starts right after the recount move by Steing and Clinton. Coincidence? I hardly think so. Trump supporters lapping it up? Of course.

      2. mrpopo profile image88
        mrpopoposted 37 hours ago in reply to this

        There might be some validity to it: http://www.investors.com/politics/edito … e-in-2016/

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 34 hours ago in reply to this

          As your link points out, anyone thinking that 0 illegals voted is a fool.  The question cannot be whether any voted, but how many did so.

          1. promisem profile image93
            promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

            "anyone thinking that 0 illegals voted is a fool. "

            Please prove it with information from credible sources and not an opinion piece from a right-wing publication.

            The abstract from the above article's "proof" says the following:

            In spite of substantial public controversy, very little reliable data exists concerning the frequency with which non-citizen immigrants participate in United States elections.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

              http://www.investors.com/politics/edito … e-in-2016/

              "Critics note that a Harvard team in 2015 had responded to the study, calling it "biased." But that report included this gem: "Further, the likely percent of noncitizen voters in recent U.S. elections is 0."

              Really? That's simply preposterous, frankly, as anyone who has lived in California can attest. Leftist get-out-the-vote groups openly urge noncitizens to vote during election time, and the registration process is notoriously loose. To suggest there is no illegal voting at all is absurd."

              "But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high."

              "some states are so notoriously slipshod in their controls (California, Virginia and New York — all of which have political movements to legalize voting by noncitizens — come to mind) that it would be shocking if many illegals didn't vote. "

              '"We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections," wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University.'

              "Yes, there is room for skepticism of any claim that's made. But every vote cast by someone who isn't by law permitted to vote disenfranchises American citizens. The charge should at least be taken seriously."

              That enough for you?  From the link you provided?

              1. promisem profile image93
                promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

                Did you actually read the abstract from the study he cites or just believe his opinion and complete twisting of it.

                Yes, there is voter fraud in this country. The total found so far is 31 out of more than one billion votes. Even the respectable conservative publications report it. Fortunately, there are some left.

                http://fortune.com/2016/10/18/studies-c … ry-common/

                Hatred does not justify propaganda.

                1. mrpopo profile image88
                  mrpopoposted 20 hours ago in reply to this

                  Here's the study cited on Investors: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar … 9414000973

                  How is the abstract being twisted by the article?

                  The other study in the Fortune article is this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won … lots-cast/

                  The professor states:

                  requirements to show ID at the polls are designed for pretty much one thing: people showing up at the polls pretending to be somebody else in order to each cast one incremental fake ballot. This is a slow, clunky way to steal an election. Which is why it rarely happens.

                  I’ve been tracking allegations of fraud for years now, including the fraud ID laws are designed to stop. In 2008, when the Supreme Court weighed in on voter ID, I looked at every single allegation put before the Court. And since then, I’ve been following reports wherever they crop up.

                  To be clear, I’m not just talking about prosecutions. I track any specific, credible allegation that someone may have pretended to be someone else at the polls, in any way that an ID law could fix.

                  So far, I’ve found about 31 different incidents (some of which involve multiple ballots) since 2000, anywhere in the country. If you want to check my work, you can read a comprehensive list of the incidents below.


                  Is that the same type of voter fraud that would occur with illegals voting? I was under the impression that illegals voting would not involve pretending to be someone else to vote.

                2. wilderness profile image95
                  wildernessposted 18 hours ago in reply to this

                  Good!  You agree then, that illegals (or the dead, perhaps) have a vote count greater than zero.  Which is all I said, isn't it?  Notice that "Which is why it rarely happens." means that it does happen.  Not never - "rarely" does not mean zero, but instead some positive number.

                  1. colorfulone profile image89
                    colorfuloneposted 18 hours ago in reply to this

                    NYC Democratic Election Commissioner, "They Bus People Around to Vote"  to get their people in office.
                    NY law says you cannot ask anybody for an ID, the Commissioner doesn't agree with that, because he wants his vote to count...but then does nothing about the voter fraud.  He says he can see a lot of fraud, not just voter fraud. Muslims can vote with burkas on with their faces covered, and no one knows who they are.  They could vote several times.  "Governor de Blasio doesn't care."
                    The Commissioner doesn't think much of the "liberal" thing.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUDTcxIqqM0

                    Thanks to Project Veritas for the undercover video.  They exposed a lot of election rigging and voter fraud...and James O'Keefe filed a complaint against Hillary Clinton and the DNC.  Trump is suing them for insighting violence at his rallies...they admitted being paid to do it on undercover videos.  So, fraud and racketeering!   

                    Project Veritas Action: undercover DNC Rigging the Election
                    http://hubpages.com/politics/forum/1384 … -election-

              2. dianetrotter profile image82
                dianetrotterposted 18 hours ago in reply to this

                I live in California and honestly have never heard non-citizens urged to vote.  I've never seen anything written or televised to that effect.  Maybe it is done individually or to an audience of non-citizens.

            2. mrpopo profile image88
              mrpopoposted 20 hours ago in reply to this

              That's the introductory sentence to set up the justification for the study's creation. Many scientific articles begin by introducing the question or problem as understudied or having unreliable data, in order to present their new work as the solution.

              With that in mind, read the conclusive statement of the abstract:

              We find that some non-citizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and Congressional elections. Non-citizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress.

            3. Don W profile image82
              Don Wposted 19 hours ago in reply to this

              The most that can be said is that a study saying XYZ is currently being challenged by several academics(1)(2). This is one of the best cases of "move along, nothing to see here" I've ever seen.

              (1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon … 14c732dfa9
              (2) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon … de346f94f5

        2. Live to Learn profile image80
          Live to Learnposted 34 hours ago in reply to this

          Wow. That was an interesting read. I hope we get some type of handle on the situation if it's as bad as what they guesstimate it could be.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 34 hours ago in reply to this

            Not going to happen, not as long as states control registration and who may vote.  The democrats have a stranglehold on the states encouraging that, and they stand to profit mightily from it - the only change will be to increase the numbers for foreign citizens voting in our (or what used to be our) elections.

            1. Live to Learn profile image80
              Live to Learnposted 34 hours ago in reply to this

              Would it be possible for the federal government to levy hefty fines on a state proven to allow voting practices in federal elections to be so lax as to allow this to go unchecked? That effects the value of my vote as well as yours.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 34 hours ago in reply to this

                Not sure at all, but it is my understanding that states can do whatever they want to produce those electoral votes.  Should they choose to do so, they can allow your dog to vote.

                1. Live to Learn profile image80
                  Live to Learnposted 25 hours ago in reply to this

                  I don't know. A quick search leads me to believe there are laws the federal government can fall back on to curb voter fraud.

            2. colorfulone profile image89
              colorfuloneposted 33 hours ago in reply to this

              I live in Minnesota.  There are about 50,000 ? Somalis living in St. Cloud. There are about 100,000 Somali voters in Minneapolis, they are why we have ObamaCare. They voted for Al Franken, who cast the deciding vote to pass the legislation.

              So! I can't imagine why anyone who is for free markets is against immigration at the moment.  Wink, wink!

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 33 hours ago in reply to this

                100,000 Somali voters, or 100,000 American voters that were born in Somalia?  It makes a little difference...

                1. dianetrotter profile image82
                  dianetrotterposted 33 hours ago in reply to this

                  True!  Some look at people.  If you can see the obvious ethnicity, the people are considered illegal.

                2. colorfulone profile image89
                  colorfuloneposted 32 hours ago in reply to this

                  100,000 non-citizen Somali voters.  sad   They get favor.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

                    Evidence that it is happening?  Rules for registration, lists of Somali citizens on our voter roles, legislation permitting it, etc.?

        3. colorfulone profile image89
          colorfuloneposted 32 hours ago in reply to this

          That's a good article, Mr. Pop.  I like saying "Mr. Popo".  I'm in love with that whole site.  Appreciate you posting the link.

    2. Credence2 profile image87
      Credence2posted 34 hours ago in reply to this

      Why do you continue to feed the Rightwinged beast?  How about an unbiased source of this ridiculous claim? I don't care what Trump says, is there any reputable unbiased sources that substatiate such a claim?

      http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st … not-vote-/

      This thing was started by infowars, the trashiest site in town?

      Quick how conservatives find it so easy to lie and tell only half the story. If this what we can expect from Trump, I am ashamed to call him my chief executive.

      1. dianetrotter profile image82
        dianetrotterposted 33 hours ago in reply to this

        I was watching CNN and the newscaster was asking people about voting and what she thought about recounting ballots.  She said the only problem was in California where Obama let 3 million illegals vote.  Newscaster:  Really!  Where did you here that?
        Lady: On CNN
        NC:  No!  You did not!
        another lady:  Everywhere
        NC:  Name one?
        Lady:  I saw the video.
        NC:  No you saw an edited video.

        It amazed me that people are so gullible.  I thought I would find out how foolish people really are.  smile

        1. dianetrotter profile image82
          dianetrotterposted 33 hours ago in reply to this

          Now that I know why you asked, I can't put that genie back in the bottle.  HOWEVER, I am learning...

    3. promisem profile image93
      promisemposted 23 hours ago in reply to this

      Pure right-wing propaganda from Breitbart that has been proven wrong.

      http://www.snopes.com/california-motor-voter-act/

    4. Don W profile image82
      Don Wposted 20 hours ago in reply to this

      Three independent fact checking sites have found the claim of there being millions of illegal votes in 2016 to be unsupported by evidence.(1)(2)(3)

      So here's a link to an article on  "How to Spot Fake News"

      (1) http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st … not-vote-/
      (2) http://www.snopes.com/three-million-vot … al-aliens/
      (3) http://www.factcheck.org/2016/11/trump- … ud-claims/

    5. DzyMsLizzy profile image90
      DzyMsLizzyposted 17 hours ago in reply to this

      Prior to broadcasting stories like this, it pays to check out the facts of the matter by doing some research of your own.  This one sounds like a Fox "news" propaganda spew.

      Here's the truth of the matter:
      http://www.snopes.com/obama-encouraged- … s-to-vote/

    6. Ivan Tod profile image60
      Ivan Todposted 7 hours ago in reply to this

      While America was asleep at the wheel former president Bill Clinton negotiated with Canada and Mexico the removal of Americas' sovereignty creating the North American Union. As such the North American Free Trade Agreement was signed...Illegaly, I might add. There is no more America and there are no Mexican or Canadian 'illegals' living here. As such any Mexican or Canadians living in the U.S., whether or not they are a 'citizen' of the U.S., are allowed to vote. This is also why pres. Obama did nothing to 'close' the borders and ultimately urged the so-called 'illegals' to vote. In consideration of these points there is no voter fraud as it pertains to 'illegals' and it wouldn't matter anyway as the people absolutely DO NOT elect the president on election day so why not let illegal aliens vote. I've asked before and I'll ask it again...How is it in America, that people do NOT know that their votes on election day do not elect the president? It's mindboggling to say the least.

      As far as local election voter fraud is concerned, the first thing that should be realized is that local elections decide the electoral college seats...Of which elect the president. Redistricting makes voter fraud irrelevant but is the real reason why any particular presidential candidate gets elected. So the real voter fraud is the system itself.

      Since my first prediction of Trump becoming president(part two of which is yet to come) has come true, I'll make another one; The U.S. dollar will be phased out and replaced by the Amero within the next four years. For those who don't believe it...Make sure you vote in the next presidential election as I'm sure you'll still believe that your vote for the president matters.

      As much as most people refuse to believe it, the U.S. is now part of the North American Union and once the Amero replaces the dollar the transition will be complete.

      1. Misfit Chick profile image94
        Misfit Chickposted 4 hours ago in reply to this

        But, its so much easier to believe that its us against them - and even more fun to fight about it. We're all pretty much children at recess.

        Its always the same government in that office. Until people realize how profitable these deep divisions are (in a few different ways); and that ALL of us are subject to various forms of manipulation to ensure a continuing divide - there will be no unity; and that’s the way they want it. Since the election, Trump has ignored trying to unify the country - while continuing to do everything he can to fracture America right up the middle of every possible dividing line he can think of.

        Too many of us have been driven 'right' or 'left' with not nearly enough of us marching down the middle. The chasm that exists through both America & The World is a lot more simple than most people realize. Christians & ex-Christians Prove God Exists by Debunking Salvation: Science & Spirituality Reveal the Real Jesus Christ. Look it up. There is no apocalypse for people to base a vote on that next time. No more voting on fake hype, fake news or fake fear.

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13302761.jpg

        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13302764.jpg

        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13302766.jpg


        I saved this tweet on election night while we were waiting for the swing states - its funny!
        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13302771.jpg

        http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13302770.jpg

        1. Live to Learn profile image80
          Live to Learnposted 2 hours ago in reply to this

          That is a pretty good assessment.

          1. Castlepaloma profile image22
            Castlepalomaposted 37 minutes ago in reply to this

            Not bad, I always try to find a middle ground solution because the truth is much more possibly there, than one extreme or the other. America is the most extreme country I known. Now that America is more divided than ever, it makes it more dangerous than ever.

  2. colorfulone profile image89
    colorfuloneposted 38 hours ago

    We have verified more than three million votes cast by non-citizens.
    We are joining .@TrueTheVote to initiate legal action.
    — Gregg Phillips (@JumpVote) November 13, 2016

    Completed analysis of database of 180 million voter registrations.
    Number of non-citizen votes exceeds 3 million.
    Consulting legal team.
    — Gregg Phillips (@JumpVote) November 11, 2016

    https://twitter.com/TrueTheVote
    https://twitter.com/JumpVote
    http://www.infowars.com/report-three-mi … al-aliens/

    It shows that the honor system doesn't work with some people.
    http://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13300944.jpg

    1. Jackie Lynnley profile image77
      Jackie Lynnleyposted 38 hours ago in reply to this

      You got that right. The more they cry and complain the more comes out onto what they have been up to...like Hillary needed any other reason to be in prison. Oh but I guess that makes me racist....oh, but is that a white face I see going down that ....hole?

      1. colorfulone profile image89
        colorfuloneposted 37 hours ago in reply to this

        There are 3,141 counties in the United States.
        Trump won 3,084 of them.
        Clinton won 57.

    2. DzyMsLizzy profile image90
      DzyMsLizzyposted 17 hours ago in reply to this
      1. colorfulone profile image89
        colorfuloneposted 17 hours ago in reply to this

        Hi, DzyMsLizzy!   Snopes has been debunked so many times, its a left-wing rag run by a husband and wife out of their home.  Sorry, those fact-checkers the Democrats rely on are there to convince good people they should believe their deceptions.  Its a part of the Matrix false reality.

        I don't care to prove it again, and again in these forums, again.  Believe what you like, or do some individual research and find out for yourself, it doesn't matter to me. I have done my research. 

        http://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13302287.jpg

        1. Dean Traylor profile image84
          Dean Traylorposted 16 hours ago in reply to this

          I suggest you read my article on Snopes. It's much larger than a married couple, and they debunk stories that come from both sides of the political spectrum.

          Also, the so-called sites that "debunked" Snopes were debunked many times over by them and other fact-checking sites. And, yes, these sites were poorly-written fake news sites, most likely writing out of Macedonia or some place like that.

          1. colorfulone profile image89
            colorfuloneposted 14 hours ago in reply to this

            I saw some of the titles to articles that were said to be put out from Macedonia, where there is much poverty.  I didn't bother reading the articles because I knew they were fake.  They were suppose to be young people out to earn a buck on ad views from what I read.  Some people's kids, huh!

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image84
    Kathryn L Hillposted 35 hours ago

    who knows who cares.   Without God, morals, honesty and following The Golden Rule for SOME unknown reason, we are sunk. Who can we trust without belief in God? The more rampant the disbelief in Our Creator, the more we will be fooled and the more we will fail due to no
    truth percolating amidst us. That half the nation was okay with Hillary is really "enough said."

    1. colorfulone profile image89
      colorfuloneposted 33 hours ago in reply to this

      I agree. Without God's Spirit, the Spirit of Truth we can be easily deceived by those without the truth.  I'm believing for a Third Great Awakening. 

      Geeze, wouldn't it been something to see the dead rise? 

      Elections expert J. Christian Adams told FOX and Friends on Tuesday morning there are 4 million dead people on US voter rolls. Far left groups continually sue to keep them there. The Obama administration has no desire to clean up these voter rolls.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHqlUrdEGwU

      Trump was talking figures in a per-election speech.
      Illegals And Dead People Are Registered Voters
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoadciaUUz0

      Voter Fraud Proof - 18 Million Invalid Registration - Lou Dobbs
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Ybzr6QNUY

      I've heard about dead people on the voter rolls for several years.  Seems like Obama wasn't the only president that didn't have a desire to clean that up.   Hey, Trump wants to make America great again!

  4. Will Apse profile image91
    Will Apseposted 26 hours ago

    According to Salon:

    WND is 'the biggest, dumbest wingnut site on the Web'

    According to the Southern Poverty Law  Center:

    WorldNetDaily is an online publication founded and run by Joseph Farah that claims to pursue truth, justice and liberty. But in fact, its pages are devoted to manipulative fear-mongering and outright fabrications designed to further the paranoid, gay-hating, conspiratorial and apocalyptic visions of Farah and his hand-picked contributors from the fringes of the far-right and fundamentalist worlds.

    Read a little, lol. Couldn't read more. Any authoritative sources for this story?

    1. Jean Bakula profile image97
      Jean Bakulaposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

      Voter fraud is very rare. Most communities have challengers at the polls, and know if someone they do not recognize is trying to vote. In NJ, you must sign a book underneath where you've been signing for years. Once a person dies, the first time they don't show up at the polls their name is taken off, usually from when the coroner takes their SS # and reports the death.

      And why are you R's spreading all these lies? If you are so unintelligent you believe this nonsense, the biggest Somali population in the U.S. is in MN. At least get your info from whatever hole in the ground sites you use correct. You won. We have a nut job, white supremacist, who is going to turn us into a Fascist country, apparently what you wanted. He doesn't even know what's in the Constitution, and and now wants to put flag burners in jail for a year? That is a violation of our 1st amendment right (not that I ever wanted to burn our flag, but it's freedom of expression and speech). If I owned a company, I'd pretend I was moving to Mexico too, if I could get a free 7 million bucks.  Where does this money come from?

      Trump's Rally last night reminded me of Hitler. A gracious, normal person who won would not have led another round of "lock her up," He would have said, "My opponent fought a good fight, and I wish her the very best." George W. Bush did that for Obama, and so on down the line. The man is so ignorant I can't stand it. It's reality TV to him. He has no clue how to run this country.

      1. Live to Learn profile image80
        Live to Learnposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

        Challengers at the polls? How does that work in big cities, I wonder.

        One would hope voter fraud was rare but I'm afraid that tid bit doesn't lend anyone to have any confidence that practice ensures no voter fraud.

        1. Jean Bakula profile image97
          Jean Bakulaposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

          It works because you get enough or as many people who live in your district to sit there all the time the polls are open. They question anyone who is not recognized, or if they are not in the rolls or have not voted before, have to prove who they are. That's how it works on the East Coast. The challengers are paid for the day, I believe it's $100.00, but its from 6AM to 8PM.

        2. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

          I wondered that, too.  Especially the part where if you're not recognized personally by the challenger you don't vote.

          While I've always produced a drivers license (through at least 4 different voting stations in two different states), I've never been challenged.  No one checks my signature (though I do sign) and certainly I've never recognized a single poll worker in my life. 

          Seems that this "Most communities have challengers at the polls, and know if someone they do not recognize is trying to vote." is just so much malarkey.  Or perhaps that location has had considerable voter fraud in the past?

          1. Jean Bakula profile image97
            Jean Bakulaposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

            It's for real where I live Dan. Maybe it's only possible to do it in small communities, but Paterson, Passaic and Clifton, three large cities in North Jersey, also do it that way. Members of the local Democratic Clubs are the challengers at the R districts, and Members of the local Republican clubs are challengers at the mostly D districts.

            My husband was off the rolls just months after he died, and I didn't initiate anything to have him taken off (too much else to do).

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

              It may be.  But I've lived in communities from less than 1,000 to about 100,000 now and not a single one has used that procedure or anything like it.  The current precinct is small enough that I've never waited more than 5 minutes to vote and generally walk straight to the ballot table.  I don't think it's common at all to actually put any effort into verifying ID. 

              Is it a hangover from mob days when thugs made sure who was voting and who it was for?  NJ, you said? smile

              1. Jean Bakula profile image97
                Jean Bakulaposted 15 hours ago in reply to this

                LOL, could be. But it's true. I was the Treasurer of my local D club for around 10 yrs. and my husband was the Sergeant at arms. When the polls close, local people go to the districts, ( we only have 8) and actually collect the tape with the votes on them and count them at the election HQS. It's a town of only 10,000 where I live though. But it's orderly and fast. We don't have long lines. We used to vote in schools until all the school shootings, now it's in the Firehouse, Vet's Hall, places like that.

                A person who never voted in one of our districts would be questioned or asked for ID of some sort. We all have to sign in to a large book and you sign under all the other voting times you signed. We mix up R's and D's, because it depends on how many people will volunteer to be challengers.

                1. Live to Learn profile image80
                  Live to Learnposted 13 hours ago in reply to this

                  I'm going to be honest. That challenging thing sounds like it could be intimidation. I'd frown on that here. If you have id you should bee allowed to vote. Period. Some stranger shouldn't be allowed to harass you in the process.

          2. Live to Learn profile image80
            Live to Learnposted 14 hours ago in reply to this

            I've lived in five states. Voted in all of them. Never been challenged. Never seen anyone challenged. This was the first year I used my driver's license. Usually presented both that and my registration card.

  5. ahorseback profile image52
    ahorsebackposted 26 hours ago

    If California's illegal voters  alone were to be recounted , it would far more than offset the Clinton popular win .  But ---Why don't the right throw in a recount threat of the  two or three  most liberal  west coast states, Washington , Oregon .............I'll bet the illegal vote alone  would amount to five to ten million votes.  Even dirty tricks are fair to such liberals.
    This is just the WDL factor working its way through their emotions on the election  loss.
    WDL,?  Whiney Democratic Losers.

    1. Will Apse profile image91
      Will Apseposted 26 hours ago in reply to this

      This seems to be the point. If those recounts find anomalies the propaganda machine is already running.

      Back to the OP, is there any evidence that 3 million people committed voter fraud in California? Or any people at all?

      All I see is wild speculation based on a few seconds of an interview.

      Anyway, you will likely have Sessions as attorney general, a man known for racism and malicious voter suppression. So things will get worse, misinformation or not.

      Sessions once famously described 3 voter registration activists helping to enroll black voters as 'a disgrace to their race'. He alleged voter fraud and prosecuted said activists with zero evidence.

      You do not know what you have unleashed on the world.

      1. ahorseback profile image52
        ahorsebackposted 25 hours ago in reply to this

        I hope.... "what we unleash on the world ' Is a national voter I.D. Card .  We require a license -  tag  for the following ,
        -driving a car
        -catching a fish
        -going to a movie
        -flying a plane
        -driving a taxi
        -crossing a border
        -joining the NRA
        -joining a club
        -..........
        -..........
        But any illegal immigrant - felon - foreign student can vote.

        1. Will Apse profile image91
          Will Apseposted 25 hours ago in reply to this

          What ID do voters use in California? Also what ID is required to get a driving licence?

          1. ahorseback profile image52
            ahorsebackposted 25 hours ago in reply to this

            I'm sure that it varies state to state , how about this ,  A BIRTH CERTIFICATE., all the more justification of central, federal government - unified rules ,laws from state to state , we are either a nation and a nation of laws or we aren't  ?

            1. Live to Learn profile image80
              Live to Learnposted 24 hours ago in reply to this

              That's where I'm confused. My license was suspended over a glitch in the system. I had to show birth certificate, and two other forms of id. It was a nightmare to get another one. But illegals have licenses. I think if you speak fluent English and you look indigenous you are treated differently when applying.

        2. dianetrotter profile image82
          dianetrotterposted 18 hours ago in reply to this

          I read that they verify citizenship when getting a driver's license.  The license is deginated to show "citizen" or whatever the status is.

          1. Live to Learn profile image80
            Live to Learnposted 18 hours ago in reply to this

            I just checked my license. It doesn't say anything on it. Had the girl who works for me check hers. Hers doesn't denote her as a felon but she was warned by her parole officer that she could not vote.

          2. ahorseback profile image52
            ahorsebackposted 17 hours ago in reply to this

            Diane , Not where I live , in Vermont ,  all you do is verify your name to master check list . But if you're not there on the list , I'm sure they put you  on it anyway .

      2. Live to Learn profile image80
        Live to Learnposted 24 hours ago in reply to this

        What interests me is that both sides appear to have their propaganda machines running full blast but both sides are blind to one and gungho in support of the other.

        1. Will Apse profile image91
          Will Apseposted 22 hours ago in reply to this

          Well, as I understand it, the Green Party is organizing recounts in three states. Those will be actual recounts and will provide solid evidence, one way or the other on the accuracy of the vote. I can't imagine anyone will challenge the recount.

          Wild speculation of the WND kind is not evidence.

          What is at stake is America's relationship to the truth here.

          My concern is that this willingness to sacrifice the truth, currently eating into US values, spreads. The Brexit campaign in the UK was marred by glaring falsehoods. Its beginning to feel as if the Enlightenment never happened.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 22 hours ago in reply to this

            "My concern is that this willingness to sacrifice the truth, currently eating into US values, spreads."

            I agree that this is a tremendous problem.  But another one, just as large, is the insistence that the ends justifies the means, and whatever it takes to get the results wanted is acceptable.  We see it in Bexit as well - when the vote didn't go as desired immediate cries for a complete re-vote arose, as the people obviously case their votes in error, or without knowing what they were voting for.  And when Trump was elected a recount is necessary to get someone else.  With the entire political structure against him, it is almost certain that when enough "recounts" are done he will lose to Clinton - if the states chosen don't provide the necessary "proof", more will be added until it does. 

            It is, at the bottom, modern politics at work, and one of the big reasons Trump was elected in the first place.

            1. Will Apse profile image91
              Will Apseposted 22 hours ago in reply to this

              Nobody asked for a recount of the vote, at the time. No one doubted that it was accurate.

              Since the vote, the Conservative government has repeatedly, said 'Brexit means Brexit', 'the people have spoken' and so on. The Labour Party has not challenged the vote or declared an intention of opposing Brexit.

              A couple of aging former Prime Minsters have suggested a second referendum but that is not going to happen unless, perhaps, there is massive popular demand (hard to imagine).

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 19 hours ago in reply to this

                "A couple of aging former Prime Minsters have suggested a second referendum"

                And so have lots of people.  So has the media.  And that is the point being made: if you don't get the results you wanted, make an end play until you DO get what you wanted.

                While I don't see it happening in Brexit, it could.  Just as it could in "recounting" Clinton's votes until they are higher than Trumps.

          2. PhoenixV profile image79
            PhoenixVposted 22 hours ago in reply to this

            ....yada yada enlightenment.""





            What is the truth? The world is a dangerous and dark place. Does the truth not stand as a lighthouse as the storms toss the ships of falsehoods upon the rocky coasts? The truth is not as easy as it sounds, you see. What is truth when your helicopter is taking RPG fire? Its all about the truth of saving your own life and the lives of your comrades in arms, no doubt.  What does the truth mean when your LZ is hot, say in Chicago or Bosnia? What is the truth when you are under sniper fire? The truth is just one convenient link away from a goofy youtube video no one ever saw. Pulease.

            1. Will Apse profile image91
              Will Apseposted 21 hours ago in reply to this

              You expressed what I have been talking perfectly. Especially the blank space. Thx for that.

              1. PhoenixV profile image79
                PhoenixVposted 21 hours ago in reply to this

                Yw. Ps.  the only thing coming up green in the green party as far as J. Stein is concerned is her portfolio.

                1. PhoenixV profile image79
                  PhoenixVposted 21 hours ago in reply to this

                  Saving the environment one paperless oil & gas dividend at a time. Lets count some votes!

          3. Live to Learn profile image80
            Live to Learnposted 21 hours ago in reply to this

            I am interested in the truth but I honestly think most in the fray are most interested in discovering truth which supports their position. I think that to believe no illegals voted in a national election is too naive to believe. The question of how many is important to determine. If it is a high number and it is swaying the outcome of some elections that is a problem which needs to be corrected. I realize democrats cringe at the thought of anyone believing anyone might believe any did.

            As I said. Getting a driver's license in this state also causes a voter card to be mailed. Automatically. I'd be curious how those who are not allowed to vote are monitored. I would have loved for the girl I work for to have gone down and tried. All they do when you walk in to vote is look at the I.D. given (I handed over a driver's license) and compare it to the rolls they had on the table. I know these people and I know how the government of this county works. It isn't the most efficient or well managed.

            So you know, I have no problem with any recounts, anywhere in the U.S. Nothing wrong with double checking results, as long as the U.S. taxpayer doesn't have to foot the bill.

  6. 60
    margayabesposted 21 hours ago

    whether its true or not, its seems like this generation wants to try the opposite of all conventional . changed has come

  7. mrpopo profile image88
    mrpopoposted 20 hours ago

    Also guys, be sure to only read those sites that call themselves fact-checking sites. Remember, if there's fact next to their name, it must be true.

  8. KJ Fitz profile image57
    KJ Fitzposted 10 hours ago

    Easy answer. They didn't.  Every study ever undertaken has shown claims of widespread voter fraud to be BS.

 
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