jump to last post 1-4 of 4 discussions (33 posts)

For true independents and conservatives , Is it time now ?

  1. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 2 months ago

    Ultra-libs are actually not only calling for but,  actively bringing "  Blood into the Streets "  politics to America's main streets ,    It has arrived !    Loretta Lynch,  ex- Attorney General of The United States , is calling for all this to actively continue !   What the hell  WAS and IS the Obama agenda ,   If Not exactly what conservative talk show  and media people have been saying for years ?
    The entire Obama administration was a gigantic political mistake for America ,   The activist , blood-thirsting divisiveness that was prevalent  in the inner city sixties ,  on the leftist campus'  and in the media  ALL during the sixties  was  demonically  negative  for America .   And NOW it returns .

    WHO here will comment on  the extent of potential  violence in response FROM  independent and conservative America ?
    https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13435366.png

    1. Ken Burgess profile image80
      Ken Burgessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      I have seen the Loretta Lynch video... what is disturbing is that it is featured on the Official U.S. Senate Democrats facebook page.  Essentially it is an endorsed message of the Democratic politicians in Congress.

      I have seen these same Democrats ignore the billions in Russian rubles funneled to John Podesta, his brother, his daughter, and the Clintons, their foundation, etc. yet they are doing everything humanly possible to pin a conspiracy with the Russians on Trump.

      There is a war going on right now in the Halls of D.C. ... when you declare that you are going to 'drain the swamp'  when you announce your intentions to undo all that Obama has done, that you don't want to carry water for NATO or the U.N. that you want to undo the regulations crippling America's ability to compete with the world... even in our own country... you are going to garner a lot of powerful enemies.

      And that is what this is... the majority of the MSM, the corrupt crony politicians that have been in Washington screwing Americans over for DECADES (Pelosi, Watters, McCain, etc.), the International Corporations, big Pharma, big Banks, etc. VS Trump and the Americans who support him and put him in there to take them on.

      Trump's opposition needs to convince America that Trump is A) Insane B) a Russian plant or C) the next Hitler ... CNN, MSNBC, W.Post along with those in Congress, work hard to convince you that Trump is all those things, every day.  If they can't do that... if they can't convince an overwhelming majority of America of one or more of those things, they can't remove him with some bogus excuse... they have to get the vast majority of Americans to want him gone.  Otherwise, their ability to continue to rob the people (the middle class, and those who aspire to be more) and continue to live the lives of multi-millionaires while we suffer.

      1. ahorseback profile image44
        ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Ken , to be very honest with you , I am ready for the next phase that comes to  protecting  traditional American liberties  and governing values  , whether that takes a armed response to the  socialist  craze going on right now on the left  or is a part of  the warring  against draining the swamp in DC..
        Trump , no matter about liking  him or not ,  has promised to drain it and  IT desperately needs draining like a long festering open wound .   Being more independent than right  I  find more and more that I am  sick and tired of the attacks from the previous far  leftist  Obama socialist bull -shyte regime .  To me , Its just about time to respond in kind to those tearing apart America at the seams  marching in the streets today .  It seems to me that  the proper authorities  either don't have  the balls or the brains to do just that  .

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

          "Ken , to be very honest with you , I am ready for the next phase that comes to  protecting  traditional American liberties  and governing values  , whether that takes a armed response to the  socialist  craze going on right now on the left  or is a part of  the warring  against draining the swamp in DC..
          Trump , no matter about liking  him or not ,  has promised to drain it and  IT desperately needs draining like a long festering open wound .   Being more independent than right  I  find more and more that I am  sick and tired of the attacks from the previous far  leftist  Obama socialist bull -shyte regime .  To me , Its just about time to respond in kind to those tearing apart America at the seams  marching in the streets today .  It seems to me that  the proper authorities  either don't have  the balls or the brains to do just that "

          I am ready for the next phase, too, so bring it on, Rightwingers, and prepare to deal with the consequences. Are you an advocate for tyranny and fascism, Horse?

          There is MORE against the strident Right that is coming. More protests, demonstrations, constantly keeping the Trump administration on edge. I challenge the Rightwinger to dare to inhibit the formidable Left!

          Your man will bring himself down, without a finger needing to be lifted.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image80
            Ken Burgessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            So treason against the President is OK in your mind?

            Reacting like an immature child, invoking any type of talk of revolt against the President or his Administration... from someone who served the country and swore an oath I'd expect better.

            But these are the lowly depths our country has fallen to, when people who swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and those appointed by the people to govern it, would rather scrap the whole system and kill those who are still standing to defend it.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

              Surely, you are not that inattentive? I work WITHIN the system and I say that Trump will take his fall from outcropping of this very System.

              You had no problem with horsey and his advocacy of the strong arm against the left, now did you?

              I am not advocating revolt, but you can bet that I will hold Trump accountable in every aspect of his reign. That pressure will be hard, long and frequent until he moves toward political moderation.We don't need Molotov cocktails, but we will not be silenced either, with that we keep the 'Chosen One' walking on egg shells.

              The only REAL threat to democracy in this country has always come from the right.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image80
                Ken Burgessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                I did not advocate for, or support "horsey's" position, I did not speak to it at all, mostly because I found your response to be far more discouraging.

                I have no idea who "horsey" is... there is nothing on his/her profile to let me know one way or another.

                Your response I found much more disheartening, and I commented on it, because I saw you were a veteran, a long serving one.

                And your perspective is a concerning one... because someone with as much experience as you have, I would expect had figured out by now that ALL extremes are EQUALLY bad, disruptive, and detrimental to this country and our freedoms and liberties.

                I don't care if you side with White Supremacists, Communists, Islamists, whatever... one is not better than the other... the extreme are extreme, and they hold no regards for any other side but their own.

                We survived without revolt or violence in the streets, 8 years of Obama, despite all the stories of his past, his childhood in Indonesia, his relationship with Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, etc... the 'Tea Party' wasn't against Obama, they were against the ACA and the corrupt Congress, and they weren't beating people down in the streets every other day.

                By 2012 and beyond, easily half the country did not support Obama's agenda, did not support the ACA, the TTiP, the direction we seemed headed, didn't support the military involvements in Libya, Syria, etc. etc.

                Still no one was rioting... no one was talking of overthrow, and only those who were on the extremes were even saying anything like 'impeachment'.

                Trump was not even sworn in, and there was already talk in D.C. of impeachment, plans for how to get him impeached, and how to stall all his efforts.  There were marches in the streets that he was 'not my President' there have been riots and violence every day...

                I understand that the media has made him into many people's worst nightmare, made him into the boogeyman, to many people... fortunately, more and more people every day are tuning out the media... more and more people would trust Putin himself over the likes of CNN or MSNBC... you know the old saying, you can fool some of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

                You have more to lose than most if the system collapses, if the government is fractured, and that is what would happen if ANY President, no matter how good or bad you think they are, is forcefully or wrongfully removed from office.

                All this hate, these riots, these calls from our supposed leaders in Congress for resistance and rioting are wrong. Are dangerous, and will lead to the downfall of the American system we have always known if they are successful... the only GOOD way of taking down Trump, is to vote him out of office in 2020. Anything other than that... means something dangerous and/or corrupt got its way, and has done our freedoms and liberties that much more harm.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  I did not advocate for, or support "horsey's" position, I did not speak to it at all, mostly because I found your response to be far more discouraging.

                  I have no idea who "horsey" is... there is nothing on his/her profile to let me know one way or another.

                  -----------

                  Horsey is Ahorseback.



                  Your response I found much more disheartening, and I commented on it, because I saw you were a veteran, a long serving one.

                  And your perspective is a concerning one... because someone with as much experience as you have, I would expect had figured out by now that ALL extremes are EQUALLY bad, disruptive, and detrimental to this country and our freedoms and liberties.
                  -----------------
                  Yes, based on my experience, extremes are undesirable. But, those of the Right far more prevalent today and more dangerous.
                  -----------------
                  I don't care if you side with White Supremacists, Communists, Islamists, whatever... one is not better than the other... the extreme are extreme, and they hold no regards for any other side but their own.

                  We survived without revolt or violence in the streets, 8 years of Obama, despite all the stories of his past, his childhood in Indonesia, his relationship with Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, etc... the 'Tea Party' wasn't against Obama, they were against the ACA and the corrupt Congress, and they weren't beating people down in the streets every other day.
                  ------------------
                  And we will survive without revolutionary upheaval in the Age of Trump, despite all the unsavory stories regarding his past record. The Tea Party virtually came into creation immediately after Obama began his term, and before AcA. Where was all of this angst during the Bush Administration? The Tea Party saw the need to protest, so does the left. However, I advocate that theprotests take place lawfully.
                  -------------
                  By 2012 and beyond, easily half the country did not support Obama's agenda, did not support the ACA, the TTiP, the direction we seemed headed, didn't support the military involvements in Libya, Syria, etc. etc.
                  ------------
                  But the other half did support Obama's agenda. What about them? He won two terms with the popular vote and the EC. What percentage of the population is approving of Trump? He, having the lowest level of public approval at this stage of his administration than any previous President who was subject to the accumulation of this data. Why? If he is going to fix things ,why the resistance? The military complex seems to have a life of its own, so I don't want a Commander and Chief who wants to double down on all of it.
                  ----------
                  Still no one was rioting... no one was talking of overthrow, and only those who were on the extremes were even saying anything like 'impeachment'.
                  ------------
                  No one is talking about impeachment, that can only be justified for cause. Trump has yet to be convicted of high crimes or misdemeanors. But the rationale and reasoning of the Right is not welcome in many corners. Since the conservatives have the Executive and both houses of Congress, we have to make out discontent known in other ways.

                  -------------------

                  Trump was not even sworn in, and there was already talk in D.C. of impeachment, plans for how to get him impeached, and how to stall all his efforts.  There were marches in the streets that he was 'not my President' there have been riots and violence every day...
                  ------------------
                  Yes, we do not like his agenda, but we will deal with that within confines of lawful activity and behavior.
                  -----------
                  I understand that the media has made him into many people's worst nightmare, made him into the boogeyman, to many people... fortunately, more and more people every day are tuning out the media... more and more people would trust Putin himself over the likes of CNN or MSNBC... you know the old saying, you can fool some of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
                  -----------------
                  Trump makes his own problems with his unconsidered actions and statements. It is convienient for the Right to make this excuseregarding 'fake news' as a cover. That is not going to work indefinitely. The more you antagonize the press the more relentless they become. There is no place to hide and that is the way I like it.
                  ------------
                  You have more to lose than most if the system collapses, if the government is fractured, and that is what would happen if ANY President, no matter how good or bad you think they are, is forcefully or wrongfully removed from office.
                  -----------

                  We all stand to lose if the system collapses. I don't want Trump removed if there is no legal basis, but I will support his removal and that of any other President who is found coming up short in regard to compliance with the law.
                  --------------
                  All this hate, these riots, these calls from our supposed leaders in Congress for resistance and rioting are wrong. Are dangerous, and will lead to the downfall of the American system we have always known if they are successful... the only GOOD way of taking down Trump, is to vote him out of office in 2020. Anything other than that... means something dangerous and/or corrupt got its way, and has done our freedoms and liberties that much more harm.
                  -------------
                  Resistance is lawful and within the purview of the system is fine with me. I don't recall anyone on the other side giving Obama a break. I repeat, I do not want to see the unraveling of our current system. But, if Trump is found legally out of line, then he could have problems before 2020. Nixon ran into the same problem back in 1974.

                  1. wilderness profile image94
                    wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                    "I don't want Trump removed if there is no legal basis, but I will support his removal and that of any other President who is found coming up short in regard to compliance with the law."

                    Really?  When did you change your mind that illegal Presidential actions are grounds for removal?

                    http://dailysignal.com/2014/02/14/7-tim … tive-will/

                    http://immigrationreform.com/2013/12/06 … s-illegal/

                    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/nin … nistration

            2. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

              Btw, yes I served my country with pride and have much of the background you have. But we are clearly on different paths ideologically and politically, what do you think accounts for that?

              I see Trump as the biggest threat to all thatis decent since the Presidency, itself was created was and you see him as some sort of Messiah.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image80
                Ken Burgessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                I attribute that to Trump's questionable rhetoric, the very acrimonious relationship Obama and he had (Trump the Birth Cert issue started it and Obama piled on spiteful attacks on Trump for years after) AND most of all I attribute that to a disingenuous and dishonest MSM that spent MONTHS telling you this man was worse than Hitler.

                I attribute that also to the fact that you still believe there is a difference between Democrats and Republicans in D.C. ... on some social issues there are, sure... but when it comes to Trade agreements, Taxes, and those things that effect the wellbeing of the Middle Class, the Nation's sovereignty, our Liberties the 'old' politicians on BOTH sides of the isle have been screwing over we Americans for decades now.

                Pelosi (30 years), Reed (30 years), Waters (almost 30 years), even McCain (over 30 years) are at the roots of all our governmental woes. Anyone in Congress that long is corrupt, its the nature of the beast in D.C.

                These are the people that gifted us the repeal of the Glass & Steagall Act, they gifted us NAFTA and CAFTA, they gifted us the dysfunctional ACA, they gifted us with unending wars in the Middle East for a quarter century now... things are worse there now than when we started.

                I attribute the difference to where I lay the blame, and to knowing that the MSM lies, and lies constantly, boldly, about things they don't even need to lie about... and I learned that a long time ago, before Trump or Obama, while serving my country.

                FYI I voted for Obama the first time, not the second, primarily because Romney was speaking the truth about China, Trade Agreements, and the Middle East... and it was then obvious to me that Obama could care less about China or Trade issues which effected our jobs and economy. There was also the ACA that I was against, he was enforcing parts of NAFTA no President prior had, etc.

                Anyways I don't see ANYONE as some sort of Messiah... that is YOU projecting onto me, and I can't help you with that.  But if that is the way you see me, then I doubt anything I type will be weighed by you with fair and due consideration.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  I attribute that to Trump's questionable rhetoric, the very acrimonious relationship Obama and he had (Trump the Birth Cert issue started it and Obama piled on spiteful attacks on Trump for years after) AND most of all I attribute that to a disingenuous and dishonest MSM that spent MONTHS telling you this man was worse than Hitler.
                  --------

                  I consider the birther issue a racist attack on Mr. Obama by Trump, These were mean spirited attacks having nothing to do with Obama's policies or politics. I have neither forgotten nor forgave him for it. I don't have be fixated on MSNBC to find controversy regarding this man and his administration.
                  ---------------------

                  I attribute that also to the fact that you still believe there is a difference between Democrats and Republicans in D.C. ... on some social issues there are, sure... but when it comes to Trade agreements, Taxes, and those things that effect the wellbeing of the Middle Class, the Nation's sovereignty, our Liberties the 'old' politicians on BOTH sides of the isle have been screwing over we Americans for decades now.
                  ------------
                  Yet, there is a difference between conservatives and progressives. Each party in its ideals and policies leans more one direction over the other and I find comfort with progressives.

                  I never said that the status quo does not need repair. I question if this Trump is the one who is actually going to repair it? All I see is a political neophyte that is not sophisticated enough to know when to keep his mouth shut. He is just a performing bear that the GOP establishment has on a leash. Trump is more conservative than populist which makes him Republican and unpalatable. bTW, who stands in the way of reinstituting a revised Glass-Steagall, it is not the progressives? Sanders was my idea of addressing populism in the electorate. I don't see Trump doing anything to concern his True handlers, the GOP, the biggest chunk in the swamp that Trump claims to want to drain.
                  -----------------
                  Pelosi (30 years), Reed (30 years), Waters (almost 30 years), even McCain (over 30 years) are at the roots of all our governmental woes. Anyone in Congress that long is corrupt, its the nature of the beast in D.C.
                  -------------

                  You still leave out a lot of GOP, which I find just as problematic.
                  ---------------
                  These are the people that gifted us the repeal of the Glass & Steagall Act, they gifted us NAFTA and CAFTA, they gifted us the dysfunctional ACA, they gifted us with unending wars in the Middle East for a quarter century now... things are worse there now than when we started.
                  -------------
                  That is true, but I don't trust nor believe that Trump is the one to correct these problems.
                  ----------------
                  I attribute the difference to where I lay the blame, and to knowing that the MSM lies, and lies constantly, boldly, about things they don't even need to lie about... and I learned that a long time ago, before Trump or Obama, while serving my country.
                  --------------

                  But, I know that Fox News, and Brietbart lies. I am in same place as yourself and yet have always considered the rabid Right an abomination.
                  ------------
                  FYI I voted for Obama the first time, not the second, primarily because Romney was speaking the truth about China, Trade Agreements, and the Middle East... and it was then obvious to me that Obama could care less about China or Trade issues which effected our jobs and economy. There was also the ACA that I was against, he was enforcing parts of NAFTA no President prior had, etc.
                  -----------
                  You, voting for Obama, I am astonished?  But, Trump is not going to betray his blue blood, with him like all GOP, it is about and for the benefit of the wealthy. While things have not been great, we could do worse and Trump and company will have to work extra shifts to prove that they are not just another wrecking crew with a new slogan.
                  ------------

                  Anyways I don't see ANYONE as some sort of Messiah... that is YOU projecting onto me, and I can't help you with that.  But if that is the way you see me, then I doubt anything I type will be weighed by you with fair and due consideration.
                  ------------------
                  You spend so much time defending Trump regardless of what he says and does, it certainly seems that you put him upon a pedestal.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image80
                    Ken Burgessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                    I think what we see from a different prism, if I may be so blunt as to tell the truth here... has to do with our race... and how the society we have grown up in, and what we have had to contend with, has taught/trained us to see things with the bias that we do.

                    Otherwise, I think we would have very similar outlooks, self imposed limits, and a willingness to act if called upon. 

                    Our differences are yet another example of the failure of our system, our media, our divided politics... we are not allowed to just be Americans.

                    We are told we have to be White, or Black, Gay or Straight, Christian or Muslim, Liberal or Conservative... labels... our culture reinforces labels and divide every chance it gets... and it has gotten worse with time, not better.

                    One great thing about the military... when you are overseas knee deep in shit, there is no black or white, liberal or conservative... we all wear the same uniform and have a need to get the job done.  And for those who lead, and lead well, a determination to get those who follow you, home in one piece.

              2. ahorseback profile image44
                ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                Please explain in what role  you "Served your country " Credence ................?
                Was that as a government employee or service member ?

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  Read the profile, that should give you a better idea...

                  Of course, that assumes that you are not so biased as to fail torecognize that I don't have to be a rabid rightwinger to be capable of rendering service to God and Country.

              3. Marisa Wright profile image92
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                +1

    2. RachaelLefler profile image91
      RachaelLeflerposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      My answer to the original post is the reason I am a moderate/centrist is that I don't believe in violence or hostility to people on the basis of their political views. I have every confidence that the war of ideas is sufficient to pick winners and losers of history. We need to maintain this country's tradition of choosing power by elections and letters, not by coups and riots. This is a civilized nation. Let's keep it that way, please.

  2. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 2 months ago

    Obama -Gate ;
    As is already shown , many of the divisive actions against the Trump administration simply BECAUSE  he is OF a conservative based ideology  IS ORIGIONATING FROM  WITHIN the offices of the federal government  heavily influenced  under  Obama's administration  and  Lynch's  DOJ where even the integrity of  the Supreme Courts were compromised and all  because of the hundreds of upper and lower level  Obama inspired  employees .    IF Congress had any integrity  right now it would investigate the entire Obama based -intelligence community .     The ideologies of the new left right now are ripping the integrity of the Federal Government and it's representative offices apart at the seams .

    And , the left says - "There's nothing to see here "

    Wire tapping happened , What's happening right in America now  IS Obama-Gate  !
    Its time for the right and even the alt-right to fight back .

  3. ahorseback profile image44
    ahorsebackposted 2 months ago

    It amazes me  how blatantly  these new liberals , for lack of a better term ,  hold the US.  leaders --  especially those that they assume are on the right--- to a completely different set of standards than  their own Pariah Pres. Obama ,  who  in fact worked more than  efficiently to tear apart the constitutional  basis of American governing process from day one .   

    That and the fact that Trump is , at best a centrist  ,  only proves they don't even know how to categorize such  a politically  independent  attempt to reclaim America for Americans  .

    If the new liberal were to hold or have held Pres.  Obama  to the same accountability as they speak of holding Pres. Trump to ---President Obama would have been impeached in the first six  months of his first term !  Why do I say six months ? Because he actually didn't do anything at all  in the first ones.

    By the way Credence , I'll  take  "Horsey " as a compliment  , because  most people truly  understand the eventual name calling of the left , That's what you  resort to when you know they lose the debate .
    I  suppose its better than the usual six or so other names you use:
    -racist
    -homophobe
    -sexist
    -Blah.
    -Blah
    -Blah

    1. Credence2 profile image85
      Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

      "Horsey" is easier than ahorseback. No denigration intended. I don't believe that I have referred to you with any of the terms you mention. Or is it that you are just seeing RED,  once again?
      .

      1. ahorseback profile image44
        ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Well great ,then for you it will be "Freedence"   but only  because its easier  , no denigration intended .

        1. Credence2 profile image85
          Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

          I get  the point, OK.

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image85
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 months ago

    Worth repeating:
    "There is a war going on right now in the Halls of D.C. ... when you declare that you are going to 'drain the swamp'  when you announce your intentions to undo all that Obama has done, that you don't want to carry water for NATO or the U.N. that you want to undo the regulations crippling America's ability to compete with the world... even in our own country... you are going to garner a lot of powerful enemies.

    And that is what this is... the majority of the MSM, the corrupt crony politicians that have been in Washington screwing Americans over for DECADES (Pelosi, Watters, McCain, etc.), the International Corporations, big Pharma, big Banks, etc."

    +1 Thanks Ken B.
    smile

 
working