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Is President Trump Turning Out to an Existential Threat to America?

  1. My Esoteric profile image89
    My Esotericposted 4 months ago

    This is really two part question.  The first part is the above question.  The other is a slight twist, to wit: "Is President Trump Turning Out to an Existential Threat to Ideals Which America Represents?"

    The reason I ask is because consequences are becoming evident from his nine weeks in office.  The most recent was Friday, March 17, 2017 when 19 members of the G-20 decided that Trump meant what he said about being opposed to free trade.  Their reaction to that realization is to drop a long-standing (since the Great Recession) public endorsement of free trade.  A consequence of this stance is a much greater chance of protectionism throughout the world which historically as led to bad economic times. 

    This, of course, is on top 8 weeks of extreme controversy over President Trump's actions.  What impact have those 8 weeks had on America?

    1. GA Anderson profile image85
      GA Andersonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      Hello My Esoteric,

      I would like to agree with your thoughts, but first I have to offer some clarification of my agreement.

      To your first question I would say no. I do not think one man, or one four-year administration can threaten irreparable damage to our American ideals. I think my optimism can be validated by historical references. President Jackson springs to mind. Our ideals have survived both. I still believe that our ideals are intact, they are just suffering from a democratic bruising. (note; that did not say Democrat).

      To your second question; if I could substitute Nationalism for your "Protectionism."  I think Pres. Trump's agenda is too strongly based on the very dangerous motivation of mob fervor. The economics of our capitalist society will quickly quench the masses' support of Protectionism, but the international damage that will result, (as noted by your G-20 reference), from a strong Nationalism agenda will be much harder to repair.

      If that substitution is OK, then I do agree that the ideals that the world perceives America to represent could be seriously endangered.

      GA

      1. ptosis profile image76
        ptosisposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        I agree, I also hope that the strength of the United States can withstand a single moronic POTUS,
        OK so the guy is not stupid - my bad. But there is something very weird about The Don. His cannot hide his body language. He seem to be chastised and then inwardly fuming during Merkel's  press meeting. I wonder what she said to him to make him act that way? 

        I am guessing she may have mentioned Ronald Reagan's famous "Tear Down That Wall" speech?
        Already memes making fun of Trump's body language:


        https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13454065.jpg

        During the white house news conference Trump appeared to be doing an impression of himself  - he looked like Alec Baldwin on SNL! Pouting lips
        http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170317143545-02-trump-merkel-0317-medium-plus-169.jpg

        1. Kathleen Cochran profile image86
          Kathleen Cochranposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          He looked like a petulant 3rd grader called to the principal's office.  No, he won't do permanent damage to our country.  He is doing irreparable damage to himself and the GOP.

      2. Ewent profile image82
        Ewentposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Trump has already gotten into trouble with Mexico, the UK, Scotland and Sweden. When the top world leader so openly lies, he is a national security risk for one reason: When there is a real terrorist threat, how will we know it is valid or just one more boy crying wolf Trump lie? Sorry but when Trump lies, one man can cause a massive war with North Korea and end with your kids incinerated.

    2. Misfit Chick profile image94
      Misfit Chickposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      I'm responding to this without reading any other responses... First, I don't have much respect for Trump nor his supporters; but I have never thought that he was a threat to the country, itself - simply because of the consequences of any of his actions: people will either become irritated by them or appreciate them; and then we will respond, accordingly. We'll learn to appreciate the consequences of voting an extremist into office. We obviously needed the lesson, LoL!

      The rest of our country's political ruling elite need to be picking up the slack & correcting his mistakes, somehow. They obviously also needed a lesson in how to operate the 'checks & balances' portion of our branches of government. How DO you keep a disturbing egomaniac from becoming a Dictator?

      What Trump is a danger to is continuing to deepen & widen the divide between his fans & anti-fans - and its not like we're talking about The Twilight Saga, we're talking about a country with many passionate viewpoints being coerced & cornered into a froth. Good, old friends & entire families have been split apart by his manipulative influences.

      It is at the foundational level that he harms us as a whole. But, we're learning. LOTS! smile

      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13454228.jpg

      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13454231_f1024.jpg

      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13454232.jpg

      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13454233_f1024.jpg

      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13454234.jpg

      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13454235.jpg

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        "What Trump is a danger to is continuing to deepen & widen the divide between his fans & anti-fans - and its not like we're talking about The Twilight Saga, we're talking about a country with many passionate viewpoints being coerced & cornered into a froth. Good, old friends & entire families have been split apart by his manipulative influences."

        Somehow I don't really see this as Trump's doing - he is doing (so far) just what he said he would do if elected.  What I do see is an increasingly vitriolic country as the fans/anti-fans go at each other hammer and tongs.  Certainly friendships and families are being split, but it isn't because Trump is following through on promises. 

        It's because people cannot accept that after a decade of liberal policies it has swung back to conservative ones.  And neither side is interested in polite conversation or discussion; they are interested in making as many nasty accusations as they can.  99% of the population isn't interested in compromise or the country, any more than Congress is - they are interested in their own lives and controlling the lives of others.  One has only to look at the thousands of ridiculous memes out there to see that - a sensationalist, emotional argument is preferable to a reasonable, logical one every time.

        1. GA Anderson profile image85
          GA Andersonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          Well, I sure hope we can work on that pessimism of yours Wilderness. 99% - I don't think so.

          Just for illustration - because I don't know what the real numbers might be, (and I wonder if anyone does).

          I would say that at least 60% of us are willing to consider compromise, and are very concerned with the welfare of our country. I get that by attributing 20% to the numbers of the Far Left and Far Right; which I would agree are not willing to discuss any compromise.

          GA

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Well, you've probably nailed me, and rightly so.  Guilty of gross exaggeration as charged, although I will maintain that personal circumstances play a bigger part for a large majority of people than the needs of the country does.

            To think otherwise means that most people would make large sacrifices for the good of the country, and I have a hard time believing that.  Pessimistic, I guess, although I also said at one time that patriotism was dead in the country...until 911 happened.

            1. Credence2 profile image85
              Credence2posted 4 months ago in reply to this

              We all have different ideas as to 'what theneeds of the country' are...

              so you tell me now that you have no personal needs that you believe interferes with what's 'best for us all' in your universe.  I have to be quite naive to believe that.

              1. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                "so you tell me now that you have no personal needs that you believe interferes with what's 'best for us all' in your universe."

                If you can find that in my post you have a far better imagination than I do!

    3. Ken Burgess profile image83
      Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      Trump is not the cause... he is the result.

      Trump did not rile up a mass of right-wing extremists hell bent on turning the country back 200 years... that is merely the perception painted by those who oppose him (see Misfit Chick and her wonderful comic-pic posts for an example of the vitriol & bias)...

      Trump is rather a result of a mass of Democrats, Republicans & Independents saying they have had enough of D.C. corrupt politicians, and the selling out of their interests to Corporations, Foreign Nations, and Globalization agendas.

      This is not something isolated to America, versions of this angst is popping up in England, Germany, and elsewhere...

      Still more and more Americans are waking up and saying 'Hey, I'm not OK with this ACA that doesn't cover any of my healthcare costs unless I get hit by a bus' or 'Hey, I'm not OK with bailing out the banks back in 2009 while I lost my house and got no relief' or 'Hey, I'm not ok with these new regulations that will shut down all coal mines putting thousands of us out of work' or 'Hey, I'm not OK with the part of that NAFTA agreement that allows Mexican truckers to drive their loads anywhere in America, putting thousands of American truckers out of work' or 'Hey, I'm not OK with my factory shutting down and putting me out of work so that they can move their operations to China' etc. etc.

      For those who are young, they don't know  what a better country, with better opportunities looks like... but for those of us in our 40s, 50s, and beyond, we do.  We remember what it was like to have a good paying job, with healthcare that actually covered your expenses, knowing we would get steady raises as the years went by.  We remember when it was businesses vying for our services, and not businesses cutting back on benefits and hours... or sending jobs out of the country all together.

      Sure there are other issues... certainly there are those that really are against Muslims, or Abortion, or whatever their 'belief' is, but that is not the bulk of Trump's supporters anymore than Marxists and Jihadists make up the bulk of Democratic supporters... for sure, both sides harbor some extremists, including in Congress... but the voters themselves, the bulk of the 60+ million people who voted for Trump are just fed up... fed up with D.C. fed up with how they are running things, fed up with the bickering over a failed ACA and failed trade agreements and failed tax system that has been screwing over the 'middle class' for a quarter century now... regardless of what Party has held control.

      And if D.C. fails to make the correct choices during the next 4 years... the number of people angry and agitated with Washington will only grow.  Don't underestimate the American people... they see the BS going on in D.C. for what it is... all the acting, finger pointing, labeling and accusing will not save them if they fail to make the changes required to bring in jobs, and make wages and benefits go up for AMERICAN citizens... its like the ocean, the first wave hit in 2010 in response to the ACA and Bank bailouts and all the foreclosures going on... 2012 was a misrepresentation because Obama was running and he was Iconic at that time, ACA had not kicked in, and he was able to sidestep blame putting the emphasis on Bush... then came 2014 which hit Congress hard, and 2016 which hit both Congress and the Presidency, with Bernie and Trump being the people's choices.

      The next wave to hit in 2018 or 2020 if this keeps up will be even more expressive, more angry and impatient than any that has come... and if things get bad enough... finally... finally the extreme left, and the extreme right... the Misfit Chicks of the world and the ahorsebacks, will come together and unite in finally blaming the people who are responsible... those in D.C. ... not the Dems, not the Reps... the whole damned corrupt bunch of them... and then it will get interesting, and change that benefits not the Corporations, Banks, and corrupt politicians, but the people might actually occur.

  2. DougClifton profile image76
    DougCliftonposted 4 months ago

    Trump is moving the U.S. in a better, safer direction. After languishing under Obama for eight years the American people elected because they did not approve of the job Democrats did in and to the White House. While snowflakes flail, we will get a stronger Supreme Court, safer and far less expensive foreign policy. Dems will squirm, especially in the media, but we have elected Trump to lead, and he is doing that. And as an aside, I would say the more mainstream media struggles to upend this presidency, the more determined Americans become to support him. Mainstream media has exposed it's Democratic Party base and that too will change. No longer will they tell us who to vote for and that's the way it should be.

    1. My Esoteric profile image89
      My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      "... in a better, safer direction."  Please explain that.

      Yes, he is "leading"; Hitler, Mussolini, Hussein also led as did Washington, Lincoln, and Roosevelt.  The question is if he is helping or hurting America.

      1. DougClifton profile image76
        DougCliftonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        At least now we all know exactly where you're coming from with your anti-Trumpism. However, essentially calling people who disagree with you "Hitler" does not help your cause. In fact, it instantly removes credibility in my opinion.

        1. My Esoteric profile image89
          My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          Your being very myopic,  Doug.  The FULL list was "Hitler, Mussolini, Hussein also led as did Washington, Lincoln, and Roosevelt"

          The point, of course, was ... "just because you can "lead" doesn't necessarily make you a 'good" leader."

          1. Ken Burgess profile image83
            Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            This is true... but I think what Americans are beginning to awaken to, is that the President doesn't really lead, certainly not like a dictator, nor in a vacuum.

            The President signs an EO banning several nations from traveling to America, and some minor Judge somewhere shuts it down.

            The President wants to change the non-tariff agreement we have with China, and finds that he can't... that power belongs with Congress.

            You should not ask if we can survive Trump... can we survive a divisive and corrupt D.C. that is intent on taking down Trump... not because he really is the next Hitler, not because he really is a Russian plant... but because he is a threat to the powers that really control D.C. his very presence in the W,H, has done more to expose things that people in D.C. don't want exposed NSA&PRISM, NATO, the Unfair trade agreements Congress continues to support, etc. than they consider tolerable...

            In truth, I am surprised he is still breathing.  So I am waiting to see what he really represents and what his real goals are... because if he is as legit as he has said all along, in regards to tearing up trade agreements, putting tariffs on China, forcing companies to stay and invest in America, fighting the corruption in D.C., I don't see how they can tolerate his living much longer.

            1. ahorseback profile image46
              ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              Ken , seriously ,"........his living much longer ........."? ,   there was a time when just that kind of a line would put one's free speech in serious jeopardy ,     I have read of this kind of line  a few times now and am surprised that more people aren't offended by this what , assassination chatter ?      I am amazed at the ironic differences in the way that some critics speak of Trump as compared to the  aura of the great and phony King Obama ,

              You're correct about the power of a president ,  he is only a small part of a HUGE problem in DC.,  And yet , Americans seem to look to a president as the "cure all "for everything from expected entitlements , to the blame for the worlds problems .   THAT is why I'm all for the  famous cry  for ' drain the swamp ' !
              One draining that All Americans should be keyed in on and aren't !     

              The Assassination talk and those who perpetrate it once was a reason  for at least an Secret Service investigation . If I were some here ,  I would be careful with that one , first amendment or not !

              1. Ken Burgess profile image83
                Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                I don't think you understood the meaning of that last paragraph, I am not advocating for it to be done. 

                I am merely saying if they cannot destroy him through the media and political maneuvering, and make his administration completely inept and unable to accomplish anything he has suggested, then they will stop him another way.

                Honestly they will likely be successful with the former, enough so that they do not have to pursue the latter.  Time will tell.

                We have to wait and see... it could all be a beautiful play being put on for the audience, Trump champions the discontented, the millions who have lost jobs and homes over the years who saw in him a champion, someone who was speaking to their frustrations and anger with D.C. ... and now they watch as a Billionaire who tried to take on the system for them, systematically gets destroyed by the Establishment, his family's name dragged through the mud, his administration neutered, made powerless, incapable of making change.

                Such a public event should make the people who supported him lose faith, give up the idea of fighting the system, and just accept the new realities, that their futures are dim, that their voices will not be heeded... that nothing they, or even a billionaire that stood up for them and bucked the system on their behalf, can do anything about it.  The days of their Liberty & Prosperity are a myth of yesterday.

                The hundred million Americans without work, and the many millions more just getting by on part time or bare minimum work need to accept the new reality, that the government no longer protects them or serves their interests... it serves the interests of the corporations, the banks, and the WTO, WB, U.N. first and foremost.

                1. Credence2 profile image85
                  Credence2posted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  I don't think you understood the meaning of that last paragraph, I am not advocating for it to be done. 

                  I am merely saying if they cannot destroy him through the media and political maneuvering, and make his administration completely inept and unable to accomplish anything he has suggested, then they will stop him another way.
                  -------------------------

                  That is exactly how the left shall prevail, Ken. No one is talking about violence, Trump will step into enough mud puddles to do himself in.

                  As I always say, in the face of this reality, your man had better watch his caboose. As we all simply cannot see him as the 'hero' that conservatives like to paint as their Billionare advocate for the people..

                  A billionaire really working for the man in the street? That's unlikely.

                  We have to stop the rightwing agenda in its tracks, would you expect anything less?

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image83
                    Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    Well, when you say things like "your man" and "conservatives hero" it is clear you missed the majority of my message and only honed in to the small part of it that suited your interests to respond to...

                    You go ahead and keep fighting that Left vs Right, Liberal vs Conservative battle... it will address none of the real problems in D.C. or what is behind them.  It serves to keep Americans broken into groups and fighting amongst each other, rather than fighting FOR each other... divided we fall, and we've been falling for decades now while the rich get richer and the Middle Class slides right into the 'poor' class.

                2. My Esoteric profile image89
                  My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  Hundreds of millions without work???  (Even Trump says only 93 million, lol) You do know how many of those "hundred of millions" are retired, disabled, in high school, in college, trust fund kids living off of investments, spouses who choose not to be in the workforce, and so on and so on.

                  When you eliminate all of those people who don't want to work that leaves you with about 15 million who aren't working and want to work.  That is a Far Cry from "hundreds of millions".

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image83
                    Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    I stated "the hundred million Americans without work"  you say 93, close enough to 100, lets split the difference and call it even.

                    Of those 100 million CAPABLE of working FULL TIME jobs, more than half of them would love to have good paying jobs and be productive citizens, you really have to think little of humanity and Americans in particular if you think the vast majority of 100 (93) million people who can work don't want to.

                    Especially considering that just over 10 years ago, that amount was only 43 million Americans.  So the majority of them WERE working.  When you factor in that many of the new additions to those numbers are high school and college kids who can't find work... it is a serious problem... that we are allowing good paying Construction, Trucking, Assembly jobs go to illegals because our Federal government allows it... because the Corporations put pressure on the Politicians to allow it, and to allow H1-B, H2-B visas to be used to take away jobs from Americans...its a serious anti-American worker problem.  The Corporations SHOULD have to hire Americans, even if its twice the cost of hiring a non-American... its called giving back, or putting back into THIS community... American.

                    I don't know why you have to embellish, to say I said "hundreds" when all a person has to do is look up at the comment and see I said no such thing.

                    On a side note, 57,000 factories have closed in America and moved to China since it joined the World Trade Order in 2001.  The biggest way to restart our economy and get people back to work IS to tackle this issue and start putting tariffs on products from China that we could/should make in America instead... not so that Corporations can make an extra buck... but so that tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans can be put back to work instead. 

                    The times when China should get a free ride, while blocking almost all American made products to its country, the time for NAFTA and CAFTA to operate as is without some adjustments  are long past... America needs to look to its own workers, and own economy 1st and foremost.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGv_arQe32U

              2. My Esoteric profile image89
                My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                Then why did Trump fill the swamp with many of his cabinet picks.

                1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image61
                  Dont Taze Me Broposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  LOL you don't even know what draining the swamp means. Trump drew his inspiration for the phrase from President Ronald Reagan. In 1980, Reagan called to "drain the swamp" of bureaucracy in Washington, and created the Grace Commission, which identified $424 billion of wasteful government spending that could be cut. By draining the swamp he means getting rid of the waste in DC, getting rid of the do nothing politicians that have sold the country down the river just  to get reelected, shrinking the federal government by giving back to the states what the federal government has unconstitutionally usurped from them. You can't say it has anything to do with who he appoints to the cabinet, at least not until whoever he has appointed has done or not done their job and you won't know that until the next four years are over. Hub pages needs to drain the swamp of misinformed opinions like the ones you incessantly express.

      2. DougClifton profile image76
        DougCliftonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        No, your thread... you explain why you feel the need to express your political angers by calling names like  Hitler, Mussolini, Hussein. What  specific Trump policy do you disagree with, and why. Why do you not feel the need to engage in your own policy disputes? Illegal immigration? Where do you stand? Foreign policy? Is Trump wrong to say ISIS grew into a global threat under Obama and Clinton? What about the $10 trillion national debt the Dems gave us over the past eight years? What are your thoughts beyond blaming it on Bush? We know you despise the U.S. President, but what are your ideas?

        1. My Esoteric profile image89
          My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          Sorry Doug, it was Your claim I was asking you to support with specifics, to wit: "Trump is moving the U.S. in a better, safer direction."

          I'll toss in asking for specifics about Your next statement "After languishing under Obama for eight years" (to which most Americans do not agree, btw)

          1. DougClifton profile image76
            DougCliftonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Why don't you explain yourself and your comments, since this is your thread? What Trump policy do you disagree with and why?

    2. rhamson profile image78
      rhamsonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      If he is leading then why has he appointed the same genre of cronies and thieves all the other parties put in charge? We have Wall Street (Mnuchin) running the Treasury as usual. We have the health care insurers AFLAC (who donates to Tom Price) who is HHR secretary and the list of swamp dwellers goes on. Obama had his share as did both Bushes (Chenney) and Clinton. leadership would be a movement towards fresh ideas that counter the stale decline of the past. Nothing new here.

    3. Ewent profile image82
      Ewentposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      What is far better about dumping 24 million Americans off healthcare? The reality is that the Republican states are the ones with the highest numbers of uninsured. That means that we who pay for our healthcare insurance pay for theirs.

      How far better is that? It is far better to run to an ER for a minor ailment and then pay ZERO for that while our premiums cover the cost of your freebie?

      How safe is the US when Trump has alienated 6 countries in less than 2 months? Sweden, Scotland, the UK, Mexico, Australia and now the ultimate insult, Germany.

      Men in this country need to stop believing they are Masters of the Universe. Women are fed up with the bullying and have no reservations about making sure men keep their traps shut about women's issues. When only Republicans make all the rules and regulations for the rest of us, that isn't democracy. It is what the Founding Fathers would call tyranny. When Men in this country use a political majority as a weapon, toppling them from their pedestals is what they will get.

  3. Kathleen Cochran profile image86
    Kathleen Cochranposted 4 months ago

    "turning out to be"?  We knew who he was during the campaign.  Those who put him in office are reaping what they sowed.  Unfortunately, the rest of us are as well.

    1. DougClifton profile image76
      DougCliftonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      I voted Trump; would never vote for the Clintons. I'm not complaining, it's the Democrats who destroyed the Democratic Party, and they won'r revive it bashing Trump.

  4. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 4 months ago

    After the Obama disaster of the last eight years  , Liberals are merely trying to duplicate the Obama opposition from the right when he began his two terms .     The republican congress  put up a very effective wall of  offensive that literally blocked much of Obama's 'Pie In the Sky " dream list for socialism in America .

    The truly sad part of the ongoing Mega- Opposition to trump :  Democrats  are so hyped  on duplicating those  republican legislative success' from eight years ago that they are literally shi##ing all over their sneakers  failing to Stop Trump ,  They have virtually opposed every move he makes and when they have a free day  from Trumps blinding blitzkrieg against them  -- they attempt to create a totally false and new charge  against him .

    Like with the moronic Rachel Maddow ,      The remaining liberal media  "pinches themselves "  daily with a new  false alarm that does nothing but sink the Liberal Ship Lolli- Pop  even deeper into the  news network swamp , Just one more swamp for Trump to drain .

    1. My Esoteric profile image89
      My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      Obama disaster?  You do know don't you that the only Americans who actually think that are conservatives and right-leaning independents.  The last Fox News poll tells you the following:

      Obama Job Approval   Liberals       Moderates    Conservatives
      Approve                         92% (duh)       69%                  25%
      Disapprove                      7%                25%                  70%

      Now, tell me again how much people hated the job Obama did.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image83
        Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Polls... who ran it, what was the exact question asked, how many people answered it.  If polls were accurate, and constant, set in stone proof of what Americans really thought... Clinton would be President.

        Outside of the liberal vanguard states (CA and NY) and city centers (Chicago, D.C.) Clinton did not have the support to win anywhere else.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          If you look at CA, Clinton won only in the city centers, just like everywhere else.  The rural counties she picked up were virtually non-existent.

          1. ahorseback profile image46
            ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Of course , and the thing that baffles intelligent minds is that there are those who forget or ignore  the  electoral importance as designed , at the same time  ignoring the likely existence of  illegals voting , double voting and the chance even  of fraud . Where I live there is little , if any , requirement of proof of citizenship .

            Anybody want to comment on the significant difference in heavily  populated areas compared to rural  ideologies and beliefs . are there more illegals in the populated areas , ie. California ,  There are  obviously major  differences perhaps  ignored by the promoters of a  popular vote alone  and  perhaps one is more" well rounded" than the other ?

            If the left can says " The Popular vote should rule  " ,  Can't I say , liberal stronghold cities shouldn't be counted ?

      2. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        You know , here's the thing .    Obama lovers  are just simply that , Obama lovers ,     I , as most mature  political forum -dwellers , am not interested in "Love Polls " ...........great though for you , I'm really glad that you loved your pick of" popular presidents , But a true leader isn't supposed to be loved into  being - most leaders will not , in fact , be loved at all but simply respected for the accomplishments that they are known for . 

        In time , once the mirage and aura fades , Obama  will be "known " more for what he could have accomplished and didn't and not  for the superficial popularity he enjoys .    Just ask every young person that had voted for Jimmy Carter about that . Me for one .

        If Obama had accomplished anything much besides the negative , I too would at least respect him .

        1. DougClifton profile image76
          DougCliftonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          Best reply!

        2. Ken Burgess profile image83
          Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          I think we are getting very much to the point where one President or the Other is ultimately going to be vilified as a traitor to the nation.  I really don't see it being anything less than the total obliteration of one reputation or the other.

          Trump has called Obama a 'non-American', blamed him for creating ISIS, and has stated that Obama deliberately had Trump and his entire support network of advisors and aids spied on during the 2016 Presidential campaign, Trump also claims Obama deliberately left people in positions throughout the halls of D.C. to harass and hinder Trump's every move as President, or to try to topple his Presidency all together.

          And on the other hand, we have the Obama supporters (MSM, Pelosi, Waters, etc.) going full tilt on trying to convince America that Trump is some Russian plant & conspirator against America, that he is a racist, sexist pig and the next Hitler.  That he is unfit for office, and needs to be impeached immediately.  They twist every event into something that can be used to denigrate Trump, or they try to ignore it all together.  Half the events of the past 48 hours, were barely touched on by MSN or CNN simply because they would have strengthened Trump's position and garnered him public support... while the other half that they did report was twisted past the point of having any semblance of reality, in an effort to keep spinning the tale that Trump, and all in his Administration, are conspiring against America with the Russians.

          Sooner or later the majority of these charges and issues have to be decided for one or the other... don't they?

  5. Kathleen Cochran profile image86
    Kathleen Cochranposted 4 months ago

    "After the Obama disaster of the last eight years"  And those disasters were . . . what?  Peace and prosperity?

    1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image61
      Dont Taze Me Broposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      "Peace and prosperity" What planet are you living on? I'm sure you love NPR who says President-elect Trump stands to inherit the nation's longest war ever in Afghanistan, as well as renewed fighting in Iraq that has spread to Syria. http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2 … -to-trump.

      Only Repealing Obamacare, Replacing the Tax Code and Reforming the Fed Will Restore Hope and Prosperity which Obama has decimated. His policy of simply smothering companies and industries with rules and regulations--preferably vaguely written to give bureaucrats wide discretion--so they survive only at your sufferance is not prosperity. Banks have been reduced to the role of utilities. One group victimized has been small and new businesses, which have been starved of reasonable and reliable lines of credit since Obama took office. Hospitals and health insurers know who their real customer is these days--Big Government, not the patient. The EPA's jihad against fossil fuels is well-known. Even the Internet hasn't been spared, as the FCC, a supposedly independent agency, has meekly followed White House orders to hit the Net with 1930s' rotary-phone-style regulations. This maneuver was illegal and will continue to suffocate new investment until the courts can adjudicate the matter. Largely unremarked upon has been the Federal Reserve's extraordinary usurpation of power, notably its seizure of nearly $4 trillion in financial assets.

      If Obama's record was of peace and prosperity how then during his reign did the Democrats lose the federal government, congressional majorities and the Presidency and the vast majority of state and local governments throughout the country? That doesn't happen, on  planet earth, to a president and his party when there is peace and prosperity.

      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13456958.jpg

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        You have to understand fully the New left in America ,  Entitlements  once begun in a country , any country ,   have  a certainty in ways of blinding a whole political ideology ,  When  this  political ideology  and the control of media are  sold to the highest entitlement bidding ,   all perceptions of reality are lost !

        The NEW left in America  is obviously blinded to political reality!

        1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image61
          Dont Taze Me Broposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          blinded to political reality? try blinded to the world, the state of things as they actually exist everywhere. To them terrorists are freedom fighters and Trump is Hitler!

          The WSJ's Bill McGurn has written a fascinating column that exposes the weird dichotomy of the Left's views towards despotism.

          During the election, Donald Trump was routinely likened to Hitler. The headlines suggest not much has changed:

          From the New Republic: "Donald Trump Is Already Acting Like an Authoritarian." National Public Radio: "Donald Trump: Strong Leader or Dangerous Authoritarian?" The New York Times: "Beyond Lying: Donald Trump's Authoritarian Reality." The New Yorker: "Trump's Challenge to American Democracy."

          What's striking here is that the same folks who see in Mr. Trump a Mussolini in waiting are blind to the soft despotism that has already taken root in our government. This is the unelected and increasingly assertive class that populates our federal bureaucracies and substitutes rule by regulation for the rule of law. The result? Over the Obama years, the Competitive Enterprise Institute reckons, Washington has averaged 35 regulations for every law.

          Besides mental illness, can anyone proffer a reasonable theory as to how they can be so blind to what has occurred over the past 8 years?

          1. ahorseback profile image46
            ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            I used to be an NPR junkie , I listened for years and   I always just knew that CNN was the most neutral  , ethical news organization ever ,   Today though , I just love it when the entirely  biased news media and it's minor followers ALL call a conservative opinion    " Biased , bigoted , untrustworthy "   How shallow the left truly is ,  And how naïve they REALLY are   to the historical evolution of one sided news  media .

    2. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      And just where did you see the  King Obama 's peace and prosperity , In his " Arab Spring "?   In  race relations ? Syria  , Iraq ,   Yemen ,  Guantanamo, ?   In bringing compromise to DC.  "the swamp "?   Where did I miss  the peace and prosperity  of the newest 'war president .

      1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image61
        Dont Taze Me Broposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Don't expect an answer. Such are only equipped with left wing mindless "talking quips" like "peace and prosperity", "hope and change" etc. When confronted with the facts they're gone, off spreading their quips elsewhere. Actual thought is not a personality trait of their ilk.

    3. DougClifton profile image76
      DougCliftonposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      Democrats, including the Obama administration, can't even say "Muslim extremism", where and how would the lead? The left is going to fume until all that's left of the Democratic Party and its m/s media pundits lose all credibility and power to govern, nothing left but L/W militants.

      1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image61
        Dont Taze Me Broposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Did you see the pathetic Democrat Response To Trump? Start here https://youtu.be/_Jx8PADyzmc?t=584 but for a really good laugh start at the beginning and listen to the whole thing.  (I apologize for the language but what is said is so true)

  6. abwilliams profile image83
    abwilliamsposted 4 months ago

    The left is always talking about the rich and the powerful, as if the right owns this category, so naturally, the talk is always negative.
    Seems to me, some very rich and some very powerful, on the left (and a few leftover RINOs) are the Power Players, are the gridlock and are getting in the way of the People's Business! They are the ones impacting America right now, in a negative way.

  7. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 4 months ago

    I believe  we have to face the facts of our  two divided  ideologies in America and that one of them is no longer for the better health of the country , I believe the ferociousness that liberals now hate 'all things traditionally American '     is ALL telling  !        They have the entitlement disease , they have tasted the best that the liberally  entitled gifting  of  Obama  had to offer and they want more  - at any and at all costs to the health of our economy ,   our sovereignty  and  our world standings ,     There is nothing to good , too expensive and  to free an entitlement that isn't on their collective wish lists !
    - free cell phones
    - free health care
    - free college loans
    - free day care
    - free incomes
    - free debt relief
    If its for free and for as long as it is - I want it !

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      Is it possible that ignorance (not stupidity, just ignorance) has convinced them, as it has others in the world, that Government entitlements are like God providing manna in the desert - that a snap of fingers produces cell phones, doctors care, cay care centers and personnel etc.?

      Or do they believe that they own what others have, and are quite happy forcing a small percentage of living people, plus future citizens that will one day grow up and produce income, to purchase these things for everybody today?

  8. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 4 months ago

    Ken , respectfully , President Obama  was the most , how to put it fairly ?,....... Outside sourced  and supported  and ideologically centered  , American president ever .   Fair ?  ..............His politics were never nationalist ,  overly patriotic or  traditionally centered or supporting of sovereignty ,   How else can he be described ?     I've voted for political offices since the  1970's  and never seen any president  so un-American ---- when he should have been ------......ie.   terrorist attacks , military supporting  ,  racially super-charged ,  ideologically oriented , than Pres. Obama . Party politics aside.

    Please enlighten me otherwise . Seriously .

    1. Ken Burgess profile image83
      Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

      I am not sure what you are trying to say... or what post you are responding for that matter.

      I will however try to express better the current situation.

      We have several investigations going on right now.  Many people probably mistakenly believe these investigations are into Trump & Russian connections.  I can understand why they would think this if they watch CNN and MSNBC for their news, because this is the propaganda that is being pushed on them.

      But what is actually being investigated is:
      A) Who leaked the information on Flynn.
      B) Who ordered the collection of information on Flynn, Trump, and all his other campaign advisers and associates.
      C) Who saw this information and disseminated it.
      D) Why did the Obama Administration ask for a FISA warrant twice, and when/if it was granted the second time, why did the 'information gathering' continue to, and well past, the election.

      Those are the issues being investigated, not what ties does Trump have to Russia... that is just, like I said, propaganda... people hoping that if they repeat a lie often enough, it will become the truth in the minds of enough people.  At most, ONE of the many investigations is following such a course, but if their had been ANY evidence of such against Trump, common sense tells you that the Obama Administration would have used it against Trump long before he became President.

      Now in terms of what has been done, any felonies or treasonous crimes will fall on those people who had access to that Confidential (and above) information and leaked it, or those in the Obama administration that illegally gathered or disseminated it.

      Someone will be given blame, someone will be uncovered, and as you know, these types of things can go all the way to the highest office, as we saw with Watergate.  The only difference being, this is very likely to land in the lap of someone in Obama's Administration, such as the former AG Lynch, I highly doubt they will pursue the former President even if they find such evidence.  That doesn't mean they wouldn't keep that truth in a dark underground vault somewhere to ensure he never causes future harm to America.

      The one thing about Obama... his rise from nobody to President was quick, impossibly fast for someone who didn't come from a privileged wealthy family... he spent no real time learning about the rules and pitfalls of power and politics... to put it in other terms, he is like a fighter who was never knocked out, never lost a fight... in some ways, he doesn't even know what he doesn't know... he was thrown into incredible power from nothing... and now he has no real protection, and no real power.

      It is very likely he didn't understand the consequences of the actions he took in his final months in office, and how trying so hard to undermine Trump, even to the point where he was campaigning against him more than Clinton was in those final weeks... left him exposed to any unlawful acts taken during that time, as well as any improper security measures.

      Another thing, he probably didn't give much thought to, is those very devices and intelligence agencies he used, can now be used against him, and anyone who worked with him, to undermine Trump and his advisors.

      Right now judges that Obama appointed, and officials in the Halls of D.C. that Obama placed, are doing what they can to oppose Trump, to undermine his Administration, to bring Washington to a halt... and plenty of opposing politicians in Congress are doing so as well... but he is President for four more years, at the least... so eventually, Trump's Administration will get past them, around them, remove them, and begin getting the things done that he wants done.

      Its just a matter of time.

      http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/23/her … -big-deal/

      1. My Esoteric profile image89
        My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        You wrote " I can understand why they would think this if they watch CNN and MSNBC for their news, because this is the propaganda that is being pushed on them."   I actually hear McMcain say that the investigations are about the Trump-Russia connection, for example.  I actually watched Nunes say he had no evidence about Trump's "Obama wiretapped my phone" (the their tweet) and I watched Comey testify to the same thing.  CNN didn't say those things, news makers did.  I don't listen to Fox create #FakrNews about the Brits doing the tapping on Trump.  CNN didn't report that, Fox did (and later were forced to retract it).

        Actually, they report the news unlike Breitbart, Drudge, Fox who make some of it up.  When I watch (listen to) CNN, I don't get a "reporters" opinion, unless they advertise it as such,.  On CNN (I don't watch MSNBC for the same reason I don't watch Fox) I get to see and hear the actual news makers, you know Trump, Congress and the like, without spin, such as Hannity provides.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image83
          Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this
        2. colorfulone profile image89
          colorfuloneposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          The nature of the beast:  CNN:  "The FBI is now reviewing that information, which includes human intelligence, travel, business and phone records and accounts of in-person meetings, according to those U.S. officials. The information is raising the suspicions of FBI counterintelligence investigators that the coordination may have taken place, though officials cautioned that the information was not conclusive and that the investigation is ongoing."

          That sounds like a lot of reporter opinion not based in reality to me, that's not journalism. 

          "I think there’s probably more evidence that CNN colluded with the Clinton campaign to give her debate questions than the Trump campaign [did] any kind of collusion.”

          “That reporting is filled with a bunch of subjective terms about, ‘This person may have done this, possibly could have done that,’ and at the end of the story if you wade to the very bottom it says, ‘The FBI cannot yet prove that collusion took place,'”  -  Sean Spicer.

          SPICER: THERE’S MORE EVIDENCE CNN COLLUDED WITH HILLARY THAN RUSSIA WITH TRUMP
          DNC chair supplied CNN debate questions to the Clinton campaign ahead of time - and she still lost
          https://www.infowars.com/spicer-theres- … ith-trump/
          I love Inforwars because they break things down so anyone can understand what's going on.

          1. My Esoteric profile image89
            My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Your funny Color.  Do you really believe what you write?  Such as "That sounds like a lot of reporter opinion not based in reality to me, that's not journalism"

            I suppose you won't believe Comey's own words either, which coincides with the facts CNN laid out.  He said.  “I’ve been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. That includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”

            If you knew anything about intelligence gathering, their methods include " human intelligence, travel, business and phone records and accounts of in-person meetings"

            1. colorfulone profile image89
              colorfuloneposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              Ohio (D) Richard Keenan admitted to raping a young child.

              President Trump does have an investigation into the elite pedophile ring in Washington DC. 

              Pedogate could bust wide open anytime.

              Added: Intelligence includes emails, too, and much more...

              1. colorfulone profile image89
                colorfuloneposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                Former NSA head William Binney joins Alex Jones to break down what sort of surveillance Donald Trump was actually under.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq8ttwjHON4

                1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image61
                  Dont Taze Me Broposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  Color. What is funny isn't that "'Your' (?) funny Color" What's funny is that anyone really believes anything ME writes! Very informative link Colorfulone, thanks.

                  1. My Esoteric profile image89
                    My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    So taze, are you saying Comey DIDN'T say those things or is LYING (since I wrote those words)?

                2. My Esoteric profile image89
                  My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                  First of all Color, you start out with a Lie.  Binney was Never head of the NSA. he was a high ranking technocrat.  Next, your source is a Limbaugh wanabe, InfoWars, and alt-right propaganda outlet.  After that, Binney hasn't worked for the NSA since 2001, so how does he know this information?

                  He was a whistleblower, which is fine so long as he doesn't have an agenda beyond getting the truth out, in other words, he is not driven by a political agenda.

                  1. colorfulone profile image89
                    colorfuloneposted 4 months ago in reply to this

                    I don't lie.  William Binney  was the Technical Leader (head, director...) for intelligence in the NSA.  Too difficult for you to grasp and comprehend?  Or, just have a need to insult?  He is one of the good guys turned whistle blower...because he does not approve of what the bad guys in the NSA do with the technology he helped create.  Thank God for the good guys like Binney, and Snowden who gave documented evidence of what Binney was saying before him!

                    William Binney has an IQ of about 200, so what you say might sound ignorant if you don't know a darn thing about his roll.  He is fascinating to listen to, and I have learned a great deal from doing just that since he turned whistle blower.  Hmm, he must not have said anything that wasn't true, otherwise he wouldn't be a free man after an FBI investigation. 

                    Good -vs- Evil

                    Expose Facts:  https://exposefacts.org/advisory-board-bios/
                    William Binney is a former high-level National Security Agency intelligence official who, after his 2001 retirement after 30 years, blew the whistle on NSA surveillance programs. His outspoken criticism of the NSA during the George W. Bush administration made him the subject of FBI investigations that included a raid on his home in 2007. Even before Edward Snowden’s NSA whistleblowing, Binney publicly revealed that NSA had access to telecommunications companies’ domestic and international billing records, and that since 9/11 the agency has intercepted some 15 to 20 trillion communications. The Snowden disclosures confirmed many of the surveillance dangers Binney — without the benefit of documents — had been warning about under both the Bush and Obama administrations.

                    Inforwars' latest interview with Binney (yesterday):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq8ttwjHON4

      2. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

        Ken ,I agree with all you've stated and  Besides all of the political stance and style of one or the other leader ,    the two  biggest problems for both voting ideologies in America right now is the  loss of  our traditionally equal  balance of ideology in government offices ,One , I believe the ideology of leftism  has infiltrated the most important and normally neutral  branches of our government ;  The DOJ , The  FBI  ,  the Supreme Court  , especially   in lower level federal judges ,  have been  loaded up with liberal bias ,especially under the   Obama administration .     This is to say nothing about the same happening in the EPA, the  IRS , the V.A , the administrations of many offices have been overly politicized  by the left .

        Two , Our mainstream news media and  not only of my opinion ,      has aligned itself with the  left .for whatever overall reason and  has lost its  identification with truth , integrity and reasonable  balance .     This phenomena  alone  jeopardizes every freedom and liberty Americans have ever had to protect  ,  for all practical  intent and purpose  ,  the great experiment of our governing process is in dire straights because of this alone.

          I do also believe , for the good or for  the bad , our older generations and  our two party vigilance  and oversight to  the quality of our government  has morphed into something new ,   What traditional America , of both parties ,  always believed and feared may very well be happening ,   the spreading of  what we once referred to as "socialism " is happening before our very eyes , and just recently .

        By the way , What Nunes  is articulating ,  Is incredible and highly illegal    ,   whatever  was done has to be revealed and  investigated immediately ., Obama should be and will probably have to be subpoenaed   ,  he OR  his people  have committed a treasonous act .

        1. Ken Burgess profile image83
          Ken Burgessposted 4 months ago in reply to this

          The "left" have their loonies... the "Right" has them too...

          The real issues go beyond that, the corruption is on both sides, the International Corporations, International Banks, and Foreign Powers (IE- China, Saudi Arabia) have the majority of politicians in Congress in their pockets.

          The most corrupt are the ones that have been there 3 DECADES or longer.  Like Pelosi, Waters, Reed, Schumer, Graham, McCain... they are their to disrupt when they have to, and help push through those bills that aid foreign nations and corporations, at the expense of the American people.

          When people stop looking at things as Left or Right... Dem or Rep... and start focusing in on these corrupt cronies... and forcing them out of Washington instead of keeping them in their for 25, 35, 40+ years we might make some progress.

          So long as we keep fighting each other, rather than focusing on the fact that we have been getting screwed over by D.C. regardless of who has been in charge... Clinton, Bush, Obama... has been one long quarter century of bending America over and sticking it to the American people.

          Those who supported Trump, have awoken to this reality, his supporters are a conglomeration of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents... they wanted change, they aren't loyal to either party because they get it... D.C. is full of corrupt cancerous politicians on BOTH sides of the isle.

          1. ahorseback profile image46
            ahorsebackposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Your last paragraph is the most important ,  Trump was elected by the loyal and restless silent  majority voter wanting a legal revolution , a Voter revolution ,    Problem is.................congress still isn't listening and the house never will.

            And Trump had better be .

            1. My Esoteric profile image89
              My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

              Try that again ahorseback.  Trump was elected by a MINORITY of voters, it just so happened the electoral vote outcome tilted to his favor.  The last time That happened, we ended up with the Iraq war, which isn't over, and the Great 2008 Recession.

              I really hate to think the damage this Minority president will do to America.

          2. My Esoteric profile image89
            My Esotericposted 4 months ago in reply to this

            Then the people who elected them must be equally corrupt to let it go on so long.

 
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