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The War on Women in the UK

  1. RJ Schwartz profile image89
    RJ Schwartzposted 2 months ago

    Yesterday a terrorist committed an unspeakable act of terror against women and young girls by detonating himself via suicide vest at a Manchester concert.  The wounded figures are still climbing as is the death toll, but it's over 100 in total.  Yet no women's organization has said a word.  This is the real war on women if one actually exists and the world is silent.  I'm perplexed.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      One cannot stand for woman's rights AND be politically correct too RJ,   one cannot stand for  woman's rights or eight year old little girls rights , for that matter   and still wish for secure borders ,   You will notice however that the left  will not even bring up the topic of terror and  Islam  in the same forum thread , Why , because the left is all about the normalizing of an acceptable  number of eight year old girl deaths  in order to support  their  open borders policy .

      1. promisem profile image95
        promisemposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        This is one of the most offensive and inflammatory comments I have ever seen on these forums. To accuse the "left" of supporting the mass murder of 8-year-old girls for their political gains is beyond belief.

        1. HollieT profile image87
          HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Quite.

        2. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          And yet , the left is all for the continued open door policy of refugee immigration from the middle east all across the western world including here , fought all along  the  Trump  7 nation ban  from immigration into the US.,   fights  against Trumps building of the Mexican  border "Wall "  and ending  unfettered illegal immigration ?

          1. promisem profile image95
            promisemposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Exactly who is "the left"?

      2. Marisa Wright profile image94
        Marisa Wrightposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Just like Americans normalise the killing of children in school shootings so they can hold on to their handguns.

        This atrocity in Manchester has hit Britain hard, not just because it's a terrorist attack, but because the British people are so unaccustomed to children being killed.   The last time children were killed in a mass attack in Britain was over 20 years ago, in 1996.  Thousands of children have died in massacres in America since then.

        1. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          "Just like Americans ........so they can hold their handguns "   .........Keep up with that thought and wonder why  terrorism is on the rise everywhere , especially in your homeland .,     You might look  to  why this family of Islam  was being scrutinized by the legal authorities ,  you might look at why  this guy  WAS radicalized  with the help of his family , in his own neighborhood , and then  spending his last three weeks in the middle east being brain-washed ?

          Guns ?,  Why don't we do this , tomorrow  morning  I will go round up all the guns and you go round up all the Islamic Radicals  , we'll meet here at noon and see who ends true evil in man[woman ] kind  ?   I think the greater weapon  for increased terrorism may be the popular  campaign of  P.C.  denial of reality  no matter who the chosen , intended victims are .

          1. Marisa Wright profile image94
            Marisa Wrightposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Ahorseback, just sit down for half an hour or so, and add up how many children have been massacred by so-called Christians in your country, compared to Islamists in mine, over the last 20 years.  Then ask yourself who has caused the most harm.

            1. ahorseback profile image46
              ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

              You know  , the overall tone of the liberal's defense of  islamic terror  every time it raises it's ugly head is dumbfounding , like your own defending attitude ,   It's like you do all that  you can to defend against it's eventual demise ,   nothing seems important , not woman's rights , nor children's  rights , not the fact that  Christian  genocide is happening ,   not  traditional immigrant and cultural assimilation or  the impossible vetting situation involving  Islamic   countries  and their "refugees''.........

              The ideology of the left is   in fact , part of the reason that  Islamic extremism continues unabated , the obstructionist attitude and denial of reality like the Angela Merkels , the Barack Obama's ,  the only reason Obama increased  incredibly  NSA  espionage on his own  people  was to assist the left's politicization of government  intelligence agencies  and to assist Hilary's failed campaign ,    The left is the party of obstructionism  , and yes , even against radical Islam .

              I guess the ideology of the right will simply  never understand  or except the blame for all that terrorism as liberals would have us believe .   Hey , I know , lets blame Trump  for Radical Islam, "that fit's the bill "
              , doesn't it ? .

              1. Aime F profile image83
                Aime Fposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                Except no one is defending Islamic terrorists, she was simply pointing out that conservatives are guilty of doing exactly what you're saying liberals are doing - "accepting" a certain amount of deaths in order to promote or keep a certain policy.  Do you feel that your hesitance to implement more restrictions on guns means that you're okay with all of the kids at Sandy Hook being dead?  If the answer is no, I wonder why you're so comfortable accusing liberals of the same thing.

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  The answer is "No", but then all evidence points to proliferation of guns in a society does not cause more deaths, whether kids at Sandy Hook or anyone or anywhere else.  On the other hand, inviting Muslims in unlimited, unvetted numbers into a country most definitely does raise the level of violence.

                  1. Marisa Wright profile image94
                    Marisa Wrightposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                    "all evidence points to proliferation of guns in a society does not cause more deaths".

                    That statement is not true. There is HUGE debate.  At the very least, the evidence is contradictory, so you can't say "all evidence" points to anything!

                    A few years ago, the American gun lobby made a huge deal out of an email about Australian gun control, which said homicides had gone up since our gun control took effect.  It was proved to be a made-up story by one person, but it was so widely reported, it has stuck in everyone's minds.

                    Of course, the main reason for our gun control laws was in response to a massacre which included children.  The main goal of the law was to ensure we never exposed children to such a slaughter of innocents again.   In that sense, the laws have been a resounding success, both in Australia and in the United Kingdom. 

                    Frankly I don't really care if homicides have gone up or down.  I am glad that we have reduced the opportunity for crazy people to go on shooting sprees.  That's good enough for me.


                    The graphs are interesting in this article:

                    http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/20 … ur/7254880

                    More interesting articles:

                    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-co … australia/

                    http://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealt … licy/58703
                    https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11120184/ … l-evidence

                2. Marisa Wright profile image94
                  Marisa Wrightposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  Exactly.

              2. Marisa Wright profile image94
                Marisa Wrightposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                Ahorseback, do you notice that when you have no answer to a question I ask, you resort to an incoherent rant?  Has it occurred to you that just makes me smile, because it proves you have NO answer to my question?

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      I really don't radical Islamic terrorists (if that's what you're talking about) care what sex or age their victim is.

      The woman that doesn't wear a Hijab.  The girl that attends school.  The boy that questions the Imam, the man that turns from Islam.  All are targets; all those that do not bow before their particular version of Islam.

      1. Aime F profile image83
        Aime Fposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Yup.  ISIS' war is not on women in the U.K., it's actually primarily been on people in the Middle East and I'm guessing there's a pretty even mix of men and women (and boys and girls).

        Women's groups tend to focus on issues that affect only or at the very least primarily women... y'know, as the moniker would suggest.

        (I'd also like to add that a man telling women what they should and shouldn't be mad about is inducing some pretty severe eye-rolling from behind my screen.)

    3. Misfit Chick profile image93
      Misfit Chickposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

      I was utterly horrified by your remarkably distorted fake news until I saw that I'm not the only one who can see whats so wrong with this. What the hell were you trying to prove by saying these things - that YOU are an ADVOCATE for women & girls; and REAL women & girls are NOT?!! That's a righteous crock of BULL coming from a Trump supporter!! This crap has absolutely NOTHING to do with you trying to bring awareness to a 'forgotten group of females' - it has to do with you being a typical BRAINWASHED Trump minion.

      Terrorists choose targets by 1) ease of capability to acheive success in the environment; and 2) who/what will hurt our enemies the most. The world trade towers were a US target for that reason. Kicking the UK & the world where our little girls were going to be concentrated for one night is not lost on the rest of us who can SEE that JUST because little girls were targeted - doesn't mean it was ALL about them. They were just the victims that would cause the greatest emotional response.

      Shame on you for being so dimwitted & insensitive to the obvious; and for being really GREAT at playing into the hands of terrorists. Guess I shouldn't be so surprised. Who you follow says boatloads about you.

      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13551809.png


      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13551811.png


      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13551819.jpg

  2. HollieT profile image87
    HollieTposted 2 months ago

    What complete and utter nonsense. It's not a 'war on women' it was a terrorist attack against civilians, and yes, children (including boys and some men) If you bother to read the reports, you'll notice that the city of Manchester is condemning comments and commentary like this. You'll also read that Muslims in Manchester were offering their homes to victims who were stranded, giving free taxi rides, donating food to hospitals for the staff etc.

    I'm pretty sure the victim's families would really appreciate it if you'd condemn your own intel services for leaking sensitive information about the tragedy to the press, when the investigation is ongoing and they'd specifically been asked not to. That would be very helpful, Thanks.

  3. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 2 months ago

    And like it or not , in the world of Islam , the promotion of women's rights   as known to modern western cultures  and religions isn't very high on their  list of priorities !    Take a look for yourself at some of the" Women's Rights "   that  exist  [not ! ]in the islamic world .    I find it rather ironic in fact that  women's rights  advocates in America  so easily align themselves with the modern liberal ideology today .

    If  such a thing as Sharia law and it's effects  on women is okay next door to where you  live ,  then  fine !    But we in the real world all need to take  a look  at the implications of reversing  the trends of progressing and advancing women's rights  ,  and simultaneously admitting into our culture the  almost  pre-historic treatment of  the weaker gender by an eleventh  century religion and culture .

    I think THAT is the main subject meaning of the OP's "war on women " question- statement .

    Actually  , a comment about the reason for THIS target in Manchester England ,  more than likely The Islamic extremist's opinion of western decadence ?

  4. Live to Learn profile image81
    Live to Learnposted 2 months ago

    Since this thread appears to be all about inflammatory statements, here's one.

    We need to understand what lures our young adults to radicalization. The young man was born in the UK. Raised there,.as I understand. Until we stop and work together to understand how we are failing segments of our population we will live in fear of this happening again and again.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      "Born there raised there "  , but by immigrants from Libya and thus returning to Libya  for  radicalization , OR worse radicalization right there in Manchester U.K.  , according to media , a "Hotbed" of such Islamic radicals .

      Concerned for safety , europe may be lost to that ,question is , is the U.S. next ?

      1. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Is the U.S. next? I've thought on that a lot. I will say that from what I've read some of the violence in Europe is attributed to animosity from their policies during the colonial days. So, I think we will see violence at some point, caused by animosity created during our meddling in the Middle East. We are decades behind Europe in the meddling so it hasn't had time to fester and bite us in the butt on that one; but violence begets violence and we can assume we will get our share of it.

        We are lucky though. Our influx from the south is different from theirs. Our neighbors are similar to us. Common history, common goals, common values. They don't want to blow us up, they simply want to get ahead in life through hard work. Europe's southern neighbors are quite different .

        1. HollieT profile image87
          HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          some of the violence in Europe is attributed to animosity from their policies during the colonial days.
          Make no mistake, I'm no apologist for the U.Ks shameful colonial days, but I believe that the terror we're witnessing in Europe is a direct consequence of our meddling in the Middle East.

          Is the U.S. next?

          9/11. You suffered the same.

      2. HollieT profile image87
        HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        See, there you go again. Spouting your ignorance. The comment made about Manchester being a hotbed of radicals actually came from another ignoramus- who declared that the person who committed the London terrorist attack was from Manchester, when he was actually from Kent. He also went to call for the death penalty for suicide bombers- think about that for a minute. I was born and bred in Manchester. And the majority of Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jews etc. live side by side and in peace.

        1. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          My ignorance tells me several things apparently above your understanding  , Islamic extremists   generally don't  live side by side with or within other cultures ,  They are not assimilating as other nationalities have .   Question for your apparent naivety , how many terror attacks will it take for you to stop turning the other cheek in UK., but hey its your country , do you live in the desert now ,    then you are allowed to keep burying your head in the sand .   America , doesn't have to suffer as the U.K. has as yet . We will not either , if all goes --as Trump leads .

          1. HollieT profile image87
            HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Actually, extremists do live side by side and within other cultures but not in peace. The man responsible for the terror attacks in Manchester lived on a housing estate, side by side and within another culture. You have completely missed the point of my post; which is that you cannot condemn all Muslims for the acts of a few and stupid comments about not assimilating are exactly that, stupid.

            When are you going to stop burying your head in the sand and face the fact that your govt. and mine have signed arms and trade deals with Saudi who are supplying ISIL with weapons which they then use against us. They are also murdering Yemeni civilians, including children. There are bound to be consequences when we meddle and invade other countries. And why are you suggesting that it hasn't happened in the U.S. What was 9/11?

            I notice you haven't retracted your comments about Manchester being a hotbed of extremism?

            1. Credence2 profile image87
              Credence2posted 2 months ago in reply to this

              "I notice you haven't retracted your comments about Manchester being a hotbed of extremism?"


              Trust me, he will never admit to it.

              1. ahorseback profile image46
                ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                Well people !  Take a look at the increasing amount of I.S.I.S., I.S.I.L.  Islamic  extremist credited terrorist acts in the UK,  seems to me those denying  reality  have more to  retract than a realist does  ,     And liberals still wonder why a majority of UK er's  voted for Brexit ?     Prove something to me   -  I 'll retract .  Besides , if the media can create alternative fact  as  free speech , so can I .
                Aren't there immigration quota's involved with the EU?   

                Don't like or agree with my opinions ?  . Pretty simple ,  get over it .

                1. HollieT profile image87
                  HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  No-one is denying that there are I.S.I.L/I.S.IS attacks in the UK and beyond (this is in your imagination) The points referred to are:
                  a) The Manchester attack was not aimed at women- it was aimed at civilians in general and the venue chosen was because it's one of the largest in Europe. Therefore, the maximum carnage would be caused.
                  b) Manchester is not a hotbed of terrorism
                  c) Just because others are of a different political persuasion and therefore have an alternative worldview does not mean that they condone murder or terrorism

                  No, I don't agree with your opinions. This is the problem, your comments have absolutely no basis in fact- they are opinions only- by your own admission

    2. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Is it really our fault that some people decide to murder others?  I think not - although it has become ever more popular to blame someone else, anyone else, for our bad behavior the bottom line is that only the person doing it is responsible.

      1. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        No, it isn't our fault that some murder but we do bear a responsibility as a society, for the good of this society, to attempt to understand what drives some into the arms of terrorists to become one, themselves; and to work toward changing the environment which allowed it to happen.  This young man, no matter how heinous the act, is also dead and I, for one, think it would be better to understand how our society is failing to keep young people from committing these atrocities then to simply demonize them as if they just decided, out of the blue, to blow themselves up.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Society "allowed" it to happen only in that it allows people freedom to act as they see fit, within wide limits.  It "allows" internet conversations, it "allows" visits to other countries.  It "allows" sale and ownership of dangerous tools.  Personal choice dictates how that freedom is used, and if society chooses NOT to allow freedom of choice, well, I don't want to live there.

          Not to say that we should not do our best to figure out where the man (the man, not society) went wrong.  What made him make the choice to murder, and why he followed that path to the ultimate end.  And cure him of his madness.  Him, not the society that gave him the freedom to act as he did.

          1. Live to Learn profile image81
            Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Is it madness, wilderness?  I wonder.  It appears to be catching. I don't think you can catch crazy.

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 2 months ago in reply to this

              Well, when one kills for almost any reason I will go out on a limb and call it madness.  Mental illness.  Crazy as a loon.  You pick the term, but it boils down to insanity.  Just my opinion, but anyone with that mindset is so far out of the norm (in our society, anyway) that no other term fits as well.

              1. Live to Learn profile image81
                Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                True, but how many of those can we pinpoint similar reasons which they claim drove them? It isn't as if a group of mass killers do it in the name of Pepsi. There is rarely a common thread such as this. Radical Islam is attempting to divide us. To create animosity toward Islam in the West and hope to push our Muslim neighbors into choosing sides.

                From what I've read ISIS is very good at recruiting through suicidal media, etc. Is it your contention that all recruits are simply mentally unbalanced?

  5. Glenis Rix profile image88
    Glenis Rixposted 2 months ago

    This attack was not targeted at women and children - though many were at the event. I suspect it may have been timed to disrupt the General Election campaign, but who knows what is in the minds of radicalised madmen. Your figures about the death toll are incorrect. The last time I checked the figures 22 innocent victims had died, around 60 were injured and some people were not accounted for. In my opiniion the extensive media coverage of  this atrocity is just what the ringleaders hope for and it is generating a distasteful prurient interest in the deceased. The people who love them should be allowed to grieve without having the indignity of daily news coverage to deal with.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      That  dignity won't ever be provided or allowed by  main-stream alarmist news media , there is too much  sensationalism there -----all  for profit .   Without the collective  recognition for calling radicalized Islam what it is   we are just "putting our heads in the sand " ,  liberals for unfettered P.C. immigration would have us all think , "there's nothing to see here"    , just another concert .  .........

      "Not targeted at women and children ?".......Okay , look at the ages , genders , family members there with them ? In the victims lists , see any soldiers , cops , politicians ,college professors ? How about plumbers  and truck drivers ?

      1. HollieT profile image87
        HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        You are basically using this tragedy to flagrantly flout your bias and spew your narrow-minded views and total ignorance. And actually, there was a police officer killed in the tragedy. The victims came from all walks of life, every gender, occupation, religion and creed.  But had you have bothered to research you would have known this.

    2. RJ Schwartz profile image89
      RJ Schwartzposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      The figure cited in the original posting was the total casualty figure (a combination of dead and wounded) - at the moment it's 23 deceased and over 120 wounded.

    3. HollieT profile image87
      HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      This

  6. Glenis Rix profile image88
    Glenis Rixposted 2 months ago

    Let's not forget that the original inhabitants of North America, the First Nations people, were a multitude of American Indian tribes who were oppressed and marginalised by colonists. The USA is a melting pot of people with numerous different ethnic backgrounds so please think carefully before criticiising Europe.

    1. Live to Learn profile image81
      Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Let's not forget that what you call the First Nations people were not the original inhabitants of North America. They were simply the current residents when the Europeans invaded.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 months ago

    I heard Dennis Praeger ask this question of one of his guests, who, in his past, had been involved with Islamic extremism: "What if their religious leaders started explaining: (Paraphrasing)
    "News Flash: You will not go to Heaven if you bomb, maim and kill others and commit suicide in the process ... You will, in all actuality, land in Hell."

    The guest answered, "Yes, they would stop their violent acts."

    I thought Dennis asked a good question.

  8. PhoenixV profile image80
    PhoenixVposted 2 months ago

    Instead of Brexit, I'd be drifting the next liberal exit.

  9. HollieT profile image87
    HollieTposted 2 months ago

    oh, and C: The US is no stranger to terrorism either.

  10. HollieT profile image87
    HollieTposted 2 months ago

    The fact that US loses more of its citizens to gun deaths than terrorist attacks indicates to me that ahorseback's time would be better spent lobbying to tighten gun laws in his own nation, than offering his opinion about a city he has probably never visited and most likely never will.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      And perhaps HollieT  time would be far better spent wondering about the relationship of closing of GITMO and the completely open door policies of  E.U. immigration policies ,  contributing  directly to increases in terrorism in places like the UK and  across western  Europe ?

      She might also BEGIN to comprehend the banning guns[instead of criminals ] has already been tried in places like Chicago and Baltimore and Washington DC.  , and guess what ?    Crimes with guns and violence increased . They have become some of the most violent cities in the world , How are those  gun bans working out ?

      She might also brilliantly consider  a ban on nuts , bolts , nails and for that matter transfer trucks  That certainly , like a gun ban , will end terrorism altogether ?

      1. HollieT profile image87
        HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Who mentioned the banning of guns? Tightening gun laws isn't banning guns. Please read the post properly before offering a knee-jerk. I thought that might rile you a bit, ahorseback, discussing murder in your own back yard and your reluctance to tackle it for want of a few small amendments to existing laws. And as for terrorism in the UK, most of it's homegrown. And what's Brexit got to with anything, if and when it actually happens, the free movement of people hasn't been decided upon.
        Again- nobody mentioned a ban, so don't be silly.

  11. Glenis Rix profile image88
    Glenis Rixposted 2 months ago

    'They know little about those in the US' As you are so vociferous about recent events in England, are we to suppose that you know more about Europe than we do about the USA? Evidently, some people involved in this forum should be at the centre of world politics- they appear to have the answers to the multifaceted problems that we face - or believe that they have.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Yes , in fact we do ,   Obviously your Brexit voters know what's best for the UK.and your immigration problems    , do you ?    At last count , what ?  a dozen or more multiple  suspects arrested there , Not exactly a "lone wolf " terror attack is it , the arrests in Libya  associated in this speaks volumes about  the rise of terror. Kind of hard for you to say ," Lets move along , nothing to see here ", maybe it's time to arm those "Bobby's " ?

      They way you feel right now is exactly the way we feel at the nosiness of foreign intervention in America's politics , how's it feel ? .

      1. HollieT profile image87
        HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        I have no problem with people discussing the UKs problems when their comments are sensible and considered. Sadly, your's are anything but. They're childish, tribal and without any substance at all. You can barely format your own posts, let alone offer plausible and worthy commentary about events occurring on the other side of the pond.

        Terrorism is horrible and we're getting our share of it over here, but I'm thankful that the scurge of terrorism is claiming far fewer lives over here, than your guns are over there.

        1. Live to Learn profile image81
          Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Well, let's all be thankful that you find the lost lives to terrorism acceptable. Sheesh. With that known, we should probably notify the terrorists that the Brits are OK with their shenanigans.

          1. HollieT profile image87
            HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Here we go again- another one with reading comprehension issues. When did "Terrorism is horrible and we're getting our share of it over here, but I'm thankful that the scurge of terrorism is claiming far fewer lives over here, than your guns are over there." Become:

            "Well, let's all be thankful that you find the lost lives to terrorism acceptable. Sheesh. With that known, we should probably notify the terrorists that the Brits are OK with their shenanigans."

            1. Live to Learn profile image81
              Live to Learnposted 2 months ago in reply to this

              Well, by my observation, it appeared that ignorance was begetting ignorance but; those with apparent anger issues would probably disagree with that assessment.

              1. HollieT profile image87
                HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                Yet another strawman- can't defend your comments about finding lost lives to terrorism so now it's about anger issues. You lack credibility.

                1. Live to Learn profile image81
                  Live to Learnposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                  You lost any credibility with the comment you made which I reasoned to. But, you didn't have much to begin with.

                  1. HollieT profile image87
                    HollieTposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

                    Where's the reasoning? All I can see is an assertion about anger issues.

        2. ahorseback profile image46
          ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

          Your hypocrisy doesn't  rile anyone at least not I , I just fully recognize hypocrisy  where it lives ,  evil is in the heart of those who ignore  laws and the natural orders of the world and no where else ,  its no more about guns than it is about bibles or the Quran , perhaps  when refugee immigration problems get as bad for America  as you have let the UK. get  we can compare in the mean time , keep your head in the sand .

          1. HollieT profile image87
            HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

            Most terrorists in Uk have are homegrown, they're not immigrants.  But do go on, I'm sure you would love to establish a link between terrorism and immigration- this is becoming comical

            1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
              Kathryn L Hillposted 2 months ago in reply to this

              "While most offenders were raised as Muslim, one in six was a convert. Three-quarters of offenders were previously known to the authorities; one-quarter had a previous criminal conviction. One in five offenders received terrorist training abroad or engaged in combat prior to arrest."

              FROM Homegrown Terrorism Is Top Threat To UK, New Report Finds  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-0 … port-finds

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                "... most offenders were raised … M-U-S-L-I-M …"

                interesting.

                1. HollieT profile image87
                  HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

                  They were, but over here they tend to be born in the UK, they're not necessarily immigrants and that's interesting too. That's what I meant by homegrown. The other problem is that both UK and US intel services were monitoring some Libyans that were known to be at risk of 'radicalisation' they were allowed to enter Libya without question when the west wanted Gaddaffi overthrown.

  12. Credence2 profile image87
    Credence2posted 2 months ago

    Don't pay no mind to the prime example of the ugly side of rightwing politics here in America. Just be glad that you are not living here at this particular moment in time.

    1. ahorseback profile image46
      ahorsebackposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      Actually the pure ugliness  in america is all from the present left , All the right has done is vote for Trump , the left however is still in Hilary meltdown "somewhere in the woods "  of  P.C. ,  somebody better go and tell Hilary that central park isn't exactly the woods , first  , and secondly  it is pure childish democratic meltdown obstructionism  , that's all that's going on in America.

      1. colorfulone profile image89
        colorfuloneposted 2 months ago in reply to this

        Meanwhile on the ugly left's-side, darling, (a shame to say an American) Chelsea Clinton says 'child marriages' are linked to 'climate change'.  She being groomed by her mother to be Hillary Clinton 2.0?   Pedophiles must be putting a lot money out to get lying monsters to talk crap like that.  What happens when people sell their soul to the devil?  Riches! ... Hell?
        Sickening!
        The Clinton's war on women continues...get'em while they are young.

        1. Kathryn L Hill profile image86
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 months ago in reply to this
          1. colorfulone profile image89
            colorfuloneposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

            Pedophilia and climate changed are interconnected?  Hillary and Bill Clinton's daughter Chelsea thinks they are.   We know that Bill has been to Pedo-Island about two dozen times from flight logs, and Hillary has been there but not as many times.  So, Chelsea seems to think pedophilia is normal because its linked to climate change?  (I have several expletives I can't use.)  What an ugly person (s)! 
            0:30   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVWDgz23Ino

            https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13546456.jpg

          2. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

            Everything is interconnected in their connectedness. Child Marriage. Global Warming. Peanut butter. Jelly.

            This is me taking the next LiberalExit.

            https://youtu.be/fEC12fz1ejY

  13. Credence2 profile image87
    Credence2posted 2 months ago

    Before we start criticizing Europeand it's problems, perhaps we need to redirect the lens and take a better look at the real source of violence and extremists here in the good ole USA.

    Right wing, anti-government, race-baiting rabble type organizations. Conservatives are painfully silent about it and Trump has dismissed it as a threat  most likely because he supports the ideological tenets of such groups.

    Of course, the "rightwinger" will refer to the New York Times as "fake news", but they say that about any contradictory source to their nonsense.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/opin … .html?_r=0

    1. HollieT profile image87
      HollieTposted 2 months ago in reply to this

      This.

  14. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 2 months ago

    It probably arises somehow from the the origins or  recent inception  of "woman's rights "to vote ,   but someone ,.... anyone ,.........will have to explain to me  the utter hypocrisy of the womans vote  for anyone like either of the Clintons , in any election , Bill's ,  Hilary's  or yes even the much entitled  offspring of the Clinton Mafioso , Chelsea .        Is it just the simplicity of man , Or do women's rights really NOT matter all that much  to other women  ?

    Oh hell , what's a little sex in the broom closet of the White House or the Governors  residence in Little Rock  ?    I mean , might as well blame the victims ............right ?

  15. PhoenixV profile image80
    PhoenixVposted 8 weeks ago

    I am concerned about the War on Australian Aborigines Women and Children.  I know the UK used it as a place to put their convicts long ago, but is there nothing they can do? It's horrifying.

  16. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 8 weeks ago

    One thing I find pretty  mind-numbing  are comparisons from the US.   , the UK.and  Canada  , these comparisons are absolutely insane . Crime ,  liberties , gun violence ,  health care ,   I don't care what the issue ,  America's pop. =  313 million ,  .....  Canada = 35 million  ,....... the UK.    63 million ,  What sense does it make to compare anything from one nation [of these ] to another at all ?
    The differences ;
    - Populations per sq. mile
    - Quantities of  high population centers
    - Law enforcement  differences
    - The courts
    - Incarceration differences
    - Culture
    - Media differences

    Why do people compare ........it's intellectually senseless .

    1. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

      I disagree.  You can start by working things out on a per capita basis.  So for instance, if there are 63 million people in the UK and 313 million people in the US, then that's about 20%. 

      So you could predict that because there were 60 mass shootings in the USA in the last 20 years, you would expect 12 mass shootings in the UK in the same period.   There was only one.

      Now we can ask, WHY the difference?   Is it because people are crowded together more in the USA, living in poorer conditions?  Is it because Americans are more violent, more aggressive, or more psychotic?  Is it because Americans are poorly educated?  Is it because the US police is so poor at catching criminals?

      Each of these reasons, if true, would reflect badly on American society and suggest it is much worse than British society.  I'm sure you would indignantly refute such suggestions.  So if none of the above is true, what other differences can you suggest to explain the difference?

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

        So in your premise one could also deduce the opposite too ?   Like the costs of NATO , the obligations of America  to everyone's benefit of foreign aid , the cost's of   military presence and security around the world indebted to Americans ,  In other words why should America be paying over one quarter of the costs of Nato or the UN financial obligations ?   If Canada  has 1 person per square mile  and America   300 per square mile ,   that has no bearing on crime ,   violence ,  economics , anything ?  I don't think you fully understand the world of numbers .       

        For instance this , I wonder just what the costs to America for free health care , free college are then going to cost the UK or Canada  when it comes to stepping up to the plate  of world security .  Or , For  ALL countries ?    I say if America has five percent of the worlds population , we should be paying only five percent of it's bills .

        If France or Greece for instance , doesn't pay it's UN bills , they can have most anything they want for free , right ?.

        1. colorfulone profile image89
          colorfuloneposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

          During his campaign, President Trump wondered if we should leave NATO because they weren't paying their fair share.  I remember Obama talking about maybe leaving if the NATO nations didn't pay up, even Bush did that. 

          Actions speak louder then words! It sounds like Trump put the fear of God in the free-loaders to be responsible, because much needed money has been pouring into NATO now (from what the WH said).  Let them rich nations fight their own battles if they don't want to pay for NATO protection, America isn't footing the bill for them anymore.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image94
          Marisa Wrightposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

          Again, you make me smile.  You said, you can't compare statistics because the countries are so different.  I answered you explaining one approach and invited you to refute my argument.  Now I know I've won my argument because you can't refute my argument can  you?  Because if you did have an answer, you would state it, instead of going off on an irrelevant rant about costs.

          The one relevant part of your answer is where you mention the number of people per square mile.  In my case, I was talking about gun control and comparing the US with the UK.   You are quite right, there is a big difference - the UK has a density of 650 people per square mile. Can you explain how this makes mass shootings less likely?

          1. ahorseback profile image46
            ahorsebackposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

            That whole rant was just you saying simply that , Yes 2 + 2 =  7 . ummmmm, .....ya right you won .
            Your trophy ?   Increased terror and violence in a nation once very  secured . The UK.
            How is that "gun free" nation working ?
            What's next ,", nuts ,bolts , screws free zones"?

            1. Misfit Chick profile image93
              Misfit Chickposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

              The whole wide world is screwed at the moment with your OLD populist attitudes of HATE that Trump and his minions have RE-proliferated. Here is a recent report on the skirmishes between the alt-right and the alt-left going on in Portland - White Supremacists Are Brawling with Masked Leftists in the Portland Streets. Homeland Security is Watching. http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/05/23/wh … -watching/

              Go ahead and LIE to us about how neither YOU nor TRUMP has had a hand in resurrecting this ancient BULLSH*T!! The anger of MODERATES is increasing to a ridiculous level - maybe that's what we need is for the MAJORITY to get involved. I, for one, am pretty sure that I could blow a hole through the head of any one of you T-DORKS who think you're so damn smart if it really came down to it - THAT is how ANGRY you have made us.

              Some of us have guns, some of us don't. Some of us would carry a big stick like the alt-right alpha male in the story above - others of us would only carry mean-talking signs that infuriate one side or the other. YOU TRUMP A*SWIPES STARTED THIS AND EF YOU FOR THINKING ITS SO DAMN WONDERFUL AND DEFENDING IT!!!

              Know of any militant Christians who participate in these alt-right rallies or cheer them on? Send them to my 1st spotlight article that DEBUNKS their pathetic 'salvation' beliefs - cuz that is where MUCH of the stupidity stems from.

              This is a dangerous game you dopes will only win with the help of something like ISIS. I'm willing to bet the majority of you CHEERED when the bombing at that concert happened; and you probably do every time a terrorist attack is successful anywhere. We really do NOT need people like you in this country; and you're sure as hell NOT Americans - only wannabees who happen to live here. Maybe you were even born here - in which case, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.


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              1. Aime F profile image83
                Aime Fposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                I don't know why you think Internet-yelling and posting countless memes is the best way to have a conversation, but it's not.

                One of the things that bothers me the most about a few of the more extreme conservatives on this site is that they just talk at people without any intent to listen or attempt to understand where anyone else is coming from and you're doing exactly the same thing. As LtL has pointed out, it doesn't present as "moderate" at all.

                1. Misfit Chick profile image93
                  Misfit Chickposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                  Actually, it is a very moderate stance - LOOK at my position on things. Me and a WHOLE BUNCH of other moderates ARE extremely mad at you ALL for allowing things as I have outlined above to not only HAPPEN but you APPROVE of and PROLIFERATE them.

                  I could really care LESS about whatever specific policies extreme leftists or right wingers argue about in here or anywhere else. We've had bad presidents with bad policies before; and the US has survived to deal with them. I have no-doubt that we will do the same with whatever mess Trump ends up leaving us in.

                  When you get accused (sorry, IGNORANTLY & ERRONEOUSLY ) of being a Bernie supporter INSTEAD of a response about the actual points being made - yeah, its really REALLY easy to get upset when people are so naturally-directed to ripping others apart.

                  That is a common T-fan comeback. "I can't make myself sound intelligent by looking at what this person is upset about; but I can sure as hell p*ss her off MORE and incite more BS from her - THAT will be funny to watch, especially when others - including the opposing side - join in!! NEATO!!"

                  And, I'm really SICK & tired of you all whining about my very real and shared attitude. When did you all suddently become such PC snowflakes? Probably about the time you realized PC doesn't work. Congratulations, you've convinced me!!

                  Don't like the images I post with this stuff? Its okay, poignant memes are MEANT to make you think. I totally understand how that might also hurt your head.

                  How the Left (AND Moderates) Learned to Hate Like the Right https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/29/opin … .html?_r=0


                  https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13553927.jpg

                  1. Live to Learn profile image81
                    Live to Learnposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                    Bet you were teacher's pet. smile

            2. Marisa Wright profile image94
              Marisa Wrightposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

              "That whole rant"- are you referring to your rant?  Because I did not rant.    I set out my case in a reasoned fashion.   

              If you think my logic was flawed, and that I was saying "2+2=7", then explain WHERE the logic is flawed, in a calm sensible manner.  Going off on a tangent achieves nothing except to obfuscate, which is what politicians do when they have no answers and are just trying to fool the people.  So I am left with the conclusion that you're doing the same. What other conclusion can I draw?

      2. Live to Learn profile image81
        Live to Learnposted 8 weeks ago in reply to this

        I'd be curious to know how many people in the UK are on the same drugs that were being prescribed to quite a few of those mass shooters.

  17. ahorseback profile image46
    ahorsebackposted 7 weeks ago

    Ummmmh Misfit Chick , is everything okay over there ,  Had too much triple chocolate latte caffeine  maybe ?

    1. Misfit Chick profile image93
      Misfit Chickposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

      Nope. Just really really INCREDIBLY p*ssed that Trump is turning out to be a much WORSE potus than any of us could have imagined.

      Now one of these rallies - the 'anti-muslim' one - that were going to be held in Portland (remember the link I left above that you no-doubt didn't read) is being moved to MY home, Seattle - which has had its own protest issues. Interestingly, most of these 'alt-right' folks are from OUT of the cities - but for some reason find it imperative to come into DIVERSE cities to cause trouble. Why, is there no one left to infuriate within your own quiet, backwoods, conservative towns?

      http://komonews.com/news/local/anti-mus … to-seattle

      LOOK AT THE RESPONSE OF THESE ALT-RIGHT AS*HOLES - this is why this one is being moved to Seattle:

      "Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler asked organizers to cancel both events in light of last week's deadly stabbing aboard a MAX train. (SHAME ON PORTLAND'S MAYOR FOR NOT WANTING THESE RALLIES IN HIS CITY - Suspect in Portland Hate Crime Murders is a Known White Supremacist http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown … upremacist)

      The "Free Speech" rally will go on as planned in Portland, but Presler announced Wednesday that the anti-Muslim rally is canceled (NOW MOVED TO SEATTLE)... "Due to Mayor Wheeler's inflammatory comments and what we feel is an incitement of violence, he has shamefully endangered every scheduled participant. Consequently, in order to ensure the safety of those who had planned on attending, we have taken the decision to cancel the Portland March Against Sharia. Despite our desire to proceed, we cannot allow innocent Americans to be harmed by radical and violent anti-American zealots that Mayor Wheeler's comments have no doubt incited,".

      Violence that THE MAYOR INCITED?!!

      Trump and his supporters have caused this mess... The people of America are not going to forget that.

      https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13552835.jpg


      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13552836.jpg

      1. ahorseback profile image46
        ahorsebackposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

        Wow , so YOU'RE from SEATTLE  ,  well that explains all that is going on in all your posts  !

        You are no doubt part of the youthful "brainy" lead  march on all that is wrong with your lives. seeking employment at  $80 .00 per hour ,    free ............well  free everything from a nanny state government all paid for by everybody else in the world around you ,, cuz all that has been  dropped on you in entering  the real world??????

        You'll have to excuse all I've said ,I'm sorry ,  I didn't realise you were part of the new generation of the fully entitled.!

        Want some advice ,  Catch up to evolution !

        1. Misfit Chick profile image93
          Misfit Chickposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

          You've come to the wrong conclusion - again. Do I LOOK like a young adult to you?!! If you had been reading my posts, you would have noticed my very MODERATE stance. I'm not for 100% free anything; and I don't support a*sholes like Trump for the same reason that most of the rest of the people in this country don't: we have higher standards - meaning, the hateful rhetoric that Trump used to inspire, embolden & provoke people like you who think hate is NEAT was reason enough NOT to vote for him, no matter which side of the political isle we were on...

          for the VERY REASONS I have been complaing about in these last three posts.

          Actually read them, you might learn something - <personal attack snipped>.


          https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13552933.jpg

          1. ahorseback profile image46
            ahorsebackposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

            Your responses and cartoons show far more than you admit , You are far from any  moderate left , at least I hope you are ,    Your language  and pictures are of something other than moderate .  If the moderate left is represented in your responses  , we are all in trouble.
            The bitter hatred and obstruction of any of Trumps progress from your camp has grown  to include pure unrestricted . hatred , no manners , no  dialog  , the likes of 'Kathy Griffin - politics" are all over the internet , and all over your responses .

            I think I'm done debating you .   You win !

          2. Live to Learn profile image81
            Live to Learnposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

            Moderate? You? Interesting assessment. Do you read your posts? Maybe you should actually read them, you might learn something about yourself - <personal attack snipped>.

            1. promisem profile image95
              promisemposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

              Case in point ...

              1. Live to Learn profile image81
                Live to Learnposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                lol

                Anyone who consistently calls the opposition a**, ignorant and such can't be considered moderate.

                This is a case in point of why your posts are so trivial.

                1. promisem profile image95
                  promisemposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                  Peace be with you.

                  "Forget the churches. I would say come to your own understanding of Christ's teachings and live as closely as possible to that understanding. Don't worry about what others do (whether Christian or otherwise) but stay true to your own understanding."

                  - Live to Learn, HubPages.com

                  1. PhoenixV profile image80
                    PhoenixVposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                    Wait for it..debunked.

                  2. Live to Learn profile image81
                    Live to Learnposted 7 weeks ago in reply to this

                    I love the fact that you quote me. Makes me feel special. Famous, even, in a small way. smile

                    I'll be honest (although I always do try to be, anyway) I'm not certain you are making any significant point here. I am staying true to my understanding. Love your neighbor as yourself. Were I to be an ass, or trivial, I'd certainly hope someone would point it out. tongue

  18. abwilliams profile image82
    abwilliamsposted 7 weeks ago

    Wow....anyone here remember T.R.O.L.L. Don't Taze me Bro? He was banned from HP. I can't even imagine how horrible whatever it was that he said must have been.

  19. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 7 weeks ago

    I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm trying to tell you that you're not going to convince anyone of anything when you're presenting your arguments in such a frantic and aggressive manner. I couldn't even relay back to you what your arguments even are and I've read your posts. It kind of just seems like you're really angry, which is fine, but take a moment to channel that into something that might appeal to others rather than just smashing your fingers against the keyboard.

    If you want to just rant without a care in the world if anyone hears you or understands you then go for it, but there are probably better places to do that than a discussion forum. If you want to actually discuss something then I think it's worth re-evaluating how you're speaking to people.

    I'm not meaning to single you out as you're not the only one guilty of the hyperaggressive posts but from what I can tell I think I tend to agree with you on some of what you're trying to say, and it would be cool if you could put it out there in a way that actually makes people think about it rather than turning them off of the ideas because of how you're presenting them.

 
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