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Health Care reform, Why are so many fighting it?

  1. Georgiakevin profile image61
    Georgiakevinposted 7 years ago

    I simply do not understand why people are fighting health care reform. I have heard the arguments against it and I keep saying how is that worse than being held hostage by the insurance companies? My insurance cost keeps going  and in turn I get less and less coverage. They say the govt run health care will mess things up. How is that worse than the insurance company white collars who a without medical background determine what my doctor/hospital can do for me?

    How can the govt. do worse than what happened to my mother? She was to have as much of her brain tumor removed as possible. She went in for prep. They shaved her head put a shunt in to her, prepped her for surgery and then sent her home. They told her to be back the next day. When my brother complained they said it was cheaper that way. How can health care reform be worst than that? My family and I used to belong to an HMO that was nicknamed group death. The doctors were forced to see as many patients as they could in a day. They missed my wife's thyroid cancer even though her tumor stood out four inches from her throat. We had to pay our own money for a visit to a naturopath for her cancer to be discovered.

    The time for health care reform was twenty years ago but our legislature in D.C. lacked the courage to do it. Now the time for health care reform is critically over due. It's time to stop the bickering and do something to make health care better. Doing nothing again is not an option!

    1. profile image0
      annvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I think people are fighting because they want to have an option to keep their insurance, they want answers and cannot get them.  They have heard things like the healthcare for the elderly may not be as good as for someone young, on and on.  There are many reasons they could be fighting since they cannot get the answers they need right now and they do not want to be stuck waiting for surgery or not having the option to go out and buy their own insurance that fits their needs.

      1. Georgiakevin profile image61
        Georgiakevinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The sad part of this is that because of the greed of the insurance companies we are even discussing health care reform. They did it to themselves. How come the insurance companies aren't proposing ways to fix this?

        1. profile image0
          annvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That is what I wonder or if the government could do something to help fix it.  Why would we have to turn everything over to gov't insurance?

          It really made me wonder why we cannot fix what we have instead of everything becoming a big to do.

        2. AEvans profile image72
          AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That is my question as well!! Here is a good one I always go for a well woman check every year when I went to get a normal well woman check I was sent a bill for $1000.00 the claim? Well Woman check is not covered by our insurance,since when? Not only do we have medical debt that is mounting due to my husband's chemo in which our provider will not completely cover but my debt as well. We pay megabucks for the coverage but they cover and pay what they fill should be paid. I would rather have free medical for all then go through all of this garbage that I am personally going through. Insurance companies are afraid to lose money that is there big concern.
          Why would anyone want to pay a premium and keep there insurance when they will recieve medical care at no cost? Wait until someone is in my position and they will re-think that position. sad

      2. Georgiakevin profile image61
        Georgiakevinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The sad part of this is that because of the greed of the insurance companies we are even discussing health care reform. They did it to themselves. How come the insurance companies aren't proposing ways to fix this?

      3. Davinagirl3 profile image60
        Davinagirl3posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        They will have the right to keep their insurance.  The Bill (HR 3200) is available online for anyone who wants to read it.

    2. tksensei profile image59
      tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      They aren't. Many are against THIS proposed health care reform (for the 1000th time) and the way certain political actors are trying to push it down our throats.

    3. RKHenry profile image76
      RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You know, I have health insurance, but pay cash because my visits are cheaper. 

      I agree with a lot of points you made.  As person, so far flung into the undecided category, I don't see how people think that barking at your neighbor is getting the job done.  Why don't people just shut up for a while and quit biting people back for their opinions.  If I could find one forum that actually had EDUCATED people constructively debating the points back and forth, I'd pay a million dollars.  But as it is, how does anyone expect to know anything, when all they do is argue?  I'm completely undecided on this issue.  I don't know if health care is a right or privilege.  And I have a darn good feeling it is almost best to just stay that way.  Because this bickering crap is for the birds. 

      I'm sure I'm not the only one, lost in the shuffle of political hatred and rudeness.  It's ridiculous.

      1. marinealways24 profile image61
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol Amazing Hypocrite

  2. lrohner profile image84
    lrohnerposted 7 years ago

    IMHO, the way this whole scene is going to pan out is Americans with no healthcare vs Americans with healthcare. Whoever has the majority wins. Oh, and puleeze let's minus the illegal immigrants!

    1. Georgiakevin profile image61
      Georgiakevinposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      In a large part I agree with you but I think those who have sub par insurance benefits will join the have nots.

      1. profile image0
        Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I want to be clear:  I have 'good' insurance, am healthy, and I join the Have Nots.

        Adequate health care is a fundamental human right.

    2. James Agbogun profile image76
      James Agbogunposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      will it be fair if the illegal immigrants are not covered?

      1. profile image0
        Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Besides the point.  Medical care is a basic human right.

        Answer this:  If you saw an illegal alien bleeding and dying on the pavement, would you try to save his/her life, if you had the capability? 

        Now everyone, keep that thought in mind, and apply it to health care reform.

        1. tksensei profile image59
          tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Along with sunny days, uninterrupted happiness, a new BMW, and anything else anyone in the universe wants on any given day...

          1. profile image0
            Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I don't live in laalaa land, doggie.  That would be you.  And I own an Audi.  They're better.  wink

            And I still believe that health care (among other items--there actually is an international declaration of human rights--although you are probably, obviously unaware of that) is a basic human right.

            1. tksensei profile image59
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yes, there are certain sorts who view 'Human Rights' as some catch-all into which they can throw any and every thing that they want to have some mythical 'government' provide for people under the lie that it is 'free.' roll  Of course this leads the very notion of human rights down the road to meaninglessness.

      2. tksensei profile image59
        tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Will it be fair if they are?!

      3. Eaglekiwi profile image72
        Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes ,they would (or should) have healthcare from previous country, to tide them over, til citzenship. If they dont register as residents ,no citizens sorry then I would assume they dont want anything  smile logic.

    3. Patrice52 profile image60
      Patrice52posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If it's going to be the insured against the uninsured, just wait a few years.  With the insurance companies profits up 1000% in the last five years, it won't be long until rates are so high that the uninsured will out number the insured.

      1. nicomp profile image59
        nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Why are profits evil? There is no altruism in economics.

  3. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    Amen.  Amen.  Amen...  Thanks for telling your story.  I believe it to be closer to the actual truth in America than the empty and loud blatherings we are hearing from the 'opposition.'  Or should I say from those who have let themselves be thrown into a frenzy of fear by less than honest, indeed unethical propaganda campaigns put forth by interests that are heavily invested in seeing any health care reform fail.

    Or should I say from mean-spirited, bored and not-to-bright trolls on the Hubpage forums?

    It's about as pretty, ingenuous and honest as the cigarette lobby.

    (Initially posted on your other thread...you accidentally posted twice? smile)

  4. Silver Rose profile image80
    Silver Roseposted 7 years ago

    Why are they fighting it? Simple. Once you've got socialised health care in some form or another, people end up pleased with it, which means it is permanent. There's never been a country where they had socialised health care and the public said "let's dismantle this". Usually it's the opposite, and they demand more of it. It's much like state pensions, or social security as you lot call it.

    The insurers etc know this, which is why they are fighting to the death on this.

    You guys need to support your president and not let him get trashed the way Clinton was trashed when he attempted reform.

    After all you all knew healthcare reform was on the agenda before the election, Mr Obama was upfront about it. He was elected, ergo he has a democratic mandate and the right to enact that mandate. The idea that he should ditch his election promise, one endorsed by the majority of voters, just eight months into his presidency, just because the people who lost the election are making a noise, is absurd. If people objected to heath reform they would have voted McCain. So stand by him and stick it out.

  5. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    Most people--indeed, countries...agree.  Please see Article 25:

    http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/


    But not dogs from Boston or where ever.

  6. Shadesbreath profile image89
    Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago

    The real pisser to me is that nobody said you can't still have private coverage.  The "free" stuff is going to be a humongous tax burden, absolutely for sure, and the utopian folks claiming preventative medicine will make up the difference need to hop back on their unicorns and ride back to the fairy meadow.

    However,  as horrific as the expense of it will be, letting families lose everything, homes, college funds for kids, ... literally everything, because they have to wipe themselves out to pay for a huge illness or injury is just insane.  So is paying absolutely absurd insurance premiums that make affording basic necessities out of reach. Who spends a third of their income paying into a "I might get sick some day, here, insurance man, hold on to my money for me in case things go bad" and does without shoes for their kid or buying groceries?  It's like, dude, really?  That's our system?

    And, rich people can still get fancy, private, better than everyone else medical care.  They just buy a little extra coverage (that will totally be available).  The greedy and ambitious doctors will still save the best stuff for the rich, so, if you can afford the experimental or "above average" treatments, you'll be fine.  The rich will still be able to live far longer than the regular folks.  So, everything will be fine, the "worthy" shall endure while the peasants still die before them.  Nothing is really at risk except a few medical bill based forclosures.  The banks will just have to find other ways to take people's homes.

    1. profile image0
      Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah!  What Shades said.

  7. Sarah Horth profile image59
    Sarah Horthposted 7 years ago

    I find it bizarre that people are fighting this tooth and nail.   I come from a country with public health (but staying in the US temporarily) - it is not a perfect system but it works pretty well.  It is definitely not scary.  I will never have to mortgage my house in case I need to have surgery.  If I want better coverage I can get add-on health care insurance that is a fraction of what it costs here.  I can't understand why you wouldn't be happy to see that your neighbors are covered. 

    I recently went to the Doctor and needed one blood test.  $139 for the blood test alone, without the Dr's visit included.  At home it would cost me about $30 for the Dr's visit and the blood test. 

    Sure you should debate what is on the table and how to improve the legislation, but I'm telling you now, the world doesn't end if you have public health.  I can't believe for such a wealthy country, the health of all your citizens is not a priority.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
      Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      To paraphrase Winston Churchill - you can always count on Americans to do the right thing....after they've tried everything else.  This IS going to happen, decent healthcare in America will cease being only for the privileged few.  It appears we're going to go the wrong way at least a few more times, but we will get there.  The only question remaining is how many more people will face catastrophe before we finally grow up on this issue.

      1. tksensei profile image59
        tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not in the form currently being pushed it's not. Hell, the dems are already fracturing over parts of it.



        Ah yes, the "privileged few" 82%   roll



        So anyone who doesn't support the plan currently being pushed isn't 'grown up'? I guess the majority of voters aren't grown up then.

      2. nicomp profile image59
        nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I have more than decent health care and I'm not priveleged.


        What else do you want the government to buy for you? A car? Clothes? Food?

  8. E. A. Wright profile image87
    E. A. Wrightposted 7 years ago

    I'm worried about being required to carry mostly worthless insurance. I want improved access to good health care, not access to mediocre insurance.

  9. yoshi97 profile image88
    yoshi97posted 7 years ago

    What if the government gave free healthcare to all, but allowed private practices to exist where people could pay for extra special care?

    Just like most of our schools are public schools, but we have private schools for those who can afford them. Would that be acceptable? (that's meant as a question, not a sarcastic poke, as I'm looking for opinions)

    1. Davinagirl3 profile image60
      Davinagirl3posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That is the plan.  The private sector is not going to be shut down.

      1. yoshi97 profile image88
        yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Then I can't see why it's such a big issue. I'm willing to give to help my fellow American, as we are all part of the same country.

        Illegal aliens? I'm kinda on the fence on that one ... I would never walk past an injured person (regardless of where they came from), but I also wouldn't want thousands of people crossing the border, just because we have free healthcare, and having none of them work to pay for it as we would.


        I'm afraid the only way we will ever solve our illegal immigrant problems is if we offer more incentives for these people to become legal citizens or we run America down to the point where it becomes a ghetto and then we all cross into Canada. smile

        1. tksensei profile image59
          tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Or how 'bout we actually defend our borders for a change?

          1. yoshi97 profile image88
            yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Having lived in a state bordering Mexico, I can't begin to tell you what these people will endure to cross our border. As desperate as many of these people are for a better life, it's nearly impossible to hold them all at bay, though I do share your frustration.

            Fences can be climbed over, guards can't cover every inch of the border 24 hours a day, and any electronic countermeasure will eventually be foiled.

            I suppose that's the price to pay for a prosperous nation being so close to one that is major need of an economic overhaul. sad

            1. tksensei profile image59
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              We could sure try a lot harder than we are now, but I see your point.

            2. Davinagirl3 profile image60
              Davinagirl3posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Don't overlook the fact that, when an illegal is caught and put in a INS camp, WE pay for their health care.  It takes months, sometimes, to deport them and we are footing all their bills for that amount of time.

              1. tksensei profile image59
                tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                What 'camps' are those? (and the INS is not called INS anymore)

                1. Davinagirl3 profile image60
                  Davinagirl3posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  They are like prisons.  It is where the illegal aliens go to await being deported.  You can look them up.  We have a few of them in Texas.

                  1. tksensei profile image59
                    tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    link?

    2. tksensei profile image59
      tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Not only would that eventually drive most private insurers out of business, but then you would REALLY have inequality in that the wealthy would have good insurance and most everyone else would be stuck with gov. cheese.

    3. Plants and Oils profile image94
      Plants and Oilsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That's pretty much how the National Health Service works here in the UK.

      1. profile image0
        Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Key emphasis on your phrase "the government gave free healthcare to all, but allowed. . .".

        First, the govt doesn't "give" anything. You pay for it all. Second, the govt doesn't "allow". It is either a right, or we don't live in a free country. I'm not being sarcastic. I think your proposal is a very good one, to have both options. But the main stickler for me in this whole issue is one of govt control and interference in our lives. Not something I ever want.

  10. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    I'm assuming it would be like it Canada that you have to actually have a health card with you or you have to pay? Of course, there is probably a market for forgeries but I doubt it's that widespread a problem, here at least.

  11. Eaglekiwi profile image72
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    I think its just a matter of change

    Its scary for some people

  12. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    I think a better question is why are there so many damn threads about healthcare. Can't one or two suffice?

    May as well ask Admin to create a Healthcare forum smile

    This is not aimed at the OP smile

  13. Davinagirl3 profile image60
    Davinagirl3posted 7 years ago

    Link to "Immigration Detention Facilities"
    http://www.ice.gov/pi/dro/facilities.htm

  14. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 7 years ago

    I've been amazed by the uses patriotism gets put to in this debate in so many hubs and elsewhere. It's nice to see a thread where it hasn't been abused.

    A phrase that gets used a lot in politics in the UK is- patriotism is the last resort of the scoundrel.

    1. profile image0
      Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks, Will.  Amen.

      I'm embarrassed for our country and cannot believe the amount of propaganda people are parroting without even knowing why.  I must say I don't think it is necessarily all about patriotic interests, but the interests of big business that these "patriots" are unwitting tools of.

      I am glad that advertisers are finally beginning to see that the lies and viciousness that shock jocks like Glenn Beck are spreading is not good for their bottom line and are pulling advertising.  I'm ashamed that this debate has to be so much about money and not more about the fact that basic health care for all people is a moral responsibility, as it is a human right.

      1. nicomp profile image59
        nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ooohhh. Nasty big business.

        Have you ever asked a poor person for a job?


        You obviously have no idea what he talks about. You certainly have the freedom to tune out his show, but if you insist on passing judgement, perhaps you might want to hear what he's saying.

        It's only fair, right?

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Apparently a lot of people are "tuning out" the Beckmeister.  There is a story today about the many sponsors who are abandoning his show as a result of his moronic "commentary" 

          The Free Market has Spoken!

          1. nicomp profile image59
            nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That is indeed the free market at work. I applaud the system that allows sponsors to decide how spend their money.

            1. profile image0
              Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yep. Ignore the noise around here - you got it right.

        2. profile image0
          Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          There is no content to your post, Nicomp, sorry.

          Yeah.  Simple math.  Blleuhg. Duh.  Get IT.  Industry not bad.  What is this, junior high debate class?  But the interests of the market must be balanced by the interests of governance and welfare for all citizens.  'Twas always thus...every civilization that ever existed was a balance of these.  Um, public roads? 

          And as far as Glenn Beck, I've not only watched the b*st*rd, and noted what he has said, but I've researched a few of the 'issues,' including the cars for clunkers fiasco (what an idiot...yeah, the government is accessing all the info. on your computer and controlling your life), and his accusation that President Obama was a racist (to which, several advertisers pulled sponsorship, and Beck went on an 'iffy' vacation from the network just recently).

          All your posts contain, in general, is stereotyping of quote, quote, 'liberals.'  They contain not much else.  This must be fun for you, I guess, (maybe?), but to some of us they seem rather childish.

          1. nicomp profile image59
            nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Content is in the eye of the beholder. wink


            Thanks, Mrs. Marx.

            Ah, the tolerance of a liberal/progressive/democrat; call him names while delicately *ing out the vowels. Yay free speech!

            Childish when your ox is gored. I get that. Anyway, I have no idea what you tolerant folks wish to be called these days.

            1. profile image0
              Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Point is, I'm not even a traditional liberal.  I wouldn't define myself as such...  But off you go, "debating," (such that it is) against a strawman.

              And I think your posts prove my points about your 'style' better than anything I can say, so I'll let that stand for anybody reasonable to see.

              1. nicomp profile image59
                nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I don't know what a non-traditional liberal might be, so I gotta go with what I got. Solly.

                Nice work with the Strawman blast. You're obviously a mean-spirited non-conservative, so if you'd like to suggest another moniker for yourself, please do so. I'm stumped.

                You implying I'm unreasonable? Cool. From an L/D/P I'll eat that up.

                1. profile image0
                  Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah, I'm mean spirited, absolutely...  lol  If I told you how I'd define myself, you'd have to do some reading other than basic Fox news, MSN, or etc.  That probably wouldn't be fun, so...nevermind!

                  I'm implying you operate on a very stereotypical level concerning politics or theory.  It isn't even interesting.  It sounds very Glenn Beck, yes.  So...I suppose if you want to take that as a compliment, there you have it.

                  smile  Very Glenn Beck of you!

                  1. tksensei profile image59
                    tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh here we go again...  roll

                  2. nicomp profile image59
                    nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Hmmm... you attack me, you profane the lineage of Glenn Beck, you impugn my writing style, my content, my choice of words....

                    But you're certainly not mean-spirited! You're just brimming with rainbows and kittens!

  15. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    .................. roll

    1. nicomp profile image59
      nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      She always runs away when I bring up an issue!

      1. tksensei profile image59
        tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Standard procedure. Throw some insults, declare their own brilliance, then beat feet.

        1. nicomp profile image59
          nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          All hat, no cattle.

          1. profile image0
            Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            The proper phrase, which originated in Texas is, "Big hat, no cattle."  It's good to have sources, and check sources. wink

            That's over y'all's head, but that's OK.

            I'm simply not interested in talking to people at this level.  And I am a writer, and I have writing to do.

            You both have as good a day as it is possible for you to have!  smile

            1. nicomp profile image59
              nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry, Lita: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/trac … attle.html

              Anyway, run along as you promised to do several messages ago. Feel free to come back when you can discuss an issue. That's more engaging than spelling profanities with stars instead of vowels.

              Unless you're really not all that busy?

              1. profile image0
                Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No googling, SIR, wink  Gotcha!  SIR, lol

                What a joke!

                As I said.  (And you dissected my post...which was not written to you, btw..I was simply replying initially).  I repeat, I am not interested in talking to people at this level.

                And yes, I'm busy.  I'm trying to write three hubs, do some writing for work, and figure out my next real estate investment, all to make a HUGE PROFIT.

                And I'm just not interested in this conversation.  Very very sorry.  Get along and make a college tuition payment for your kid or something...  jeez.

                You have a great day!  If ya can, smile  Really.

                1. nicomp profile image59
                  nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I am sore confused. You have time to compose pseudo-intellectually condescending meta-responses but not time to dig into an issue that you brought up.

                  1. profile image0
                    Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Too bad.  Some of us are very busy with the free market and increasing our wealth.  Maybe you should be, too.  smile  Sorry for the confusion, but ya know, that's how it goes when you see things in a stereotypical fashion.  lol
                    You have a great day!  If ya can, smile  Really.

            2. tksensei profile image59
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              As I said, standard procedure...

              1. nicomp profile image59
                nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Yep, too busy to address an issue. Not too busy to condescend.
                She truly has herself in a bind now. If she ignores me she's lost the debate, if she addresses me she owns up to being a h*p*cr*t*.

                I assume 'y' is a vowel in this usage. Not really sure.

  16. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    Now!  Would a captain-(ness) of capitalism take the time to address you all?

    Really, ya think?  wink

    Then why should I?  Time is money and it flies!

    1. nicomp profile image59
      nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Seriously, in all seriousness, for real, no lie; you're just making yourself look small. An hour ago you said you were too busy to discuss an issue that you brought up. In the meantime you continue to post condescending vignettes to the thread. It's almost as if you have nothing better to do.

  17. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 7 years ago

    http://hubpages.com/hubtool/edit/771536

    See above.  (If you can get through...I've no real idea about hubs when unpublished.)  You want me to post some job references, too?  Since I have to prove soemthing?  Would ya like that?

    And I'm just having some fun.  Likely, those who I consider reasonable and friends can see this.  Others?  Don't care.  Once I've formed an opinion of someone over a period of time, it usually proves to be true.

    Challenge to you?  YOU stop posting.   smile  I've ended this like, 4 times.  Have a good day, smile

  18. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    Standard procedure.

    1. nicomp profile image59
      nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "nyah nyah. You stop first".

      OK, I did.

    2. profile image0
      Leta Sposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Case in point!  In so many people's eyes!

  19. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    So busy!

    1. nicomp profile image59
      nicompposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Multitasking and obfuscating. Still refuses to address an issue.

      Uncle!

 
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