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'The Lisbon Treaty -Ireland October 2nd- Yes or No

  1. ScarletRyan1970 profile image61
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago


  2. 0
    ryankettposted 7 years ago

    You should be grateful that your nation gives you the chance to vote on these matters. We dont even get a referendum.

    As a Englishman, I dont want anything further to do with the EU. It costs us hundreds of millions of pounds/euros more than we take from it. Opting out never did Norway any harm.

  3. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago

    Who on earth knows what is going on?

    I am so full of BS - I can barely swallow....

  4. ScarletRyan1970 profile image61
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago


    We had already voted last year and our answer was No.
    I am not grateful that we should have to vote again on a second Lisbon treaty.

    Exactly,France and Germany are regretting it.

    Hope it will be another NO.

  5. 0
    ryankettposted 7 years ago

    Why shouldn't you be grateful? You have the democratic right to vote no again. Try living in the UK where 633 greedy spivs makes the decision for the other 60+ million of us.

    Ireland is the only country out of 27 states who held a referendum. You dont realise how lucky you are, to live in the only true democracy in Europe. So yes, you should be grateful. The decision is in the hands of the people, no other country in Europe can say that.

    Your democracy is hinging on a 1987 Irish Supreme Court decision. No other government would have upheld their constitution, and no other government has. So yes, I believe that you should feel lucky that your government is upholding the Irish Constitution.

    The adapted proposal takes into consideration the primary concerns of the Irish 'no' voters, on issues including Abortion and Taxation. So why not see whether a majority now supports the treaty?

    You live in one of the most democratic countries in the world, and that is something to be proud of. It is a pity if you are not.

  6. LondonGirl profile image92
    LondonGirlposted 7 years ago

    It takes the piss, though, that when people vote "no" various EU countries keep holding new votes until they get the answer "yes". I'm with Ryan - wish we could have a vote, but ONE.

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I guess I take your point there. But in fairness, the EU have changed the proposed treaty quite significantly to try and compromise and appease those that voted no in Ireland. So it is quite essentially a new treaty? Which has been adapted specifically as a result of a survey of the Irish public to determine their reasons for rejection. Those changes would apply across all 27 member states, so even if Ireland does now vote yes.... they have been afforded a fair bit of input into the proposals, and this should in theory now be a treaty that more people in Ireland are content with.

      If they vote No again, then I believe that this will be the end of the process for Ireland....... so democracy is quite essentially still there. When was the last time the UK held a referendum? It is a disgrace. I guess that if I was Irish, I would be voting no because I just cannot tolerate the EU and what it stands for. But, if the treaty now passes with a significant majority, then this can still be considered the publics democratically made decision.

      1. LViddamoy profile image60
        LViddamoyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The treaty itself has not been changed,if it had it would have to be voted on again. in the case of Ireland they have just given "legal" gaurantees on issues like neutrality.

  7. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    Umm, what's voting is for if you are forced to vote until you get the expected result? I really see no difference, except for increased perversion...

  8. LondonGirl profile image92
    LondonGirlposted 7 years ago

    Only ever once - after EEC entry, as it was then.

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And I bet many people who voted yes on that day now fully regret their decision.... we need a revolution in this country. I know they are strong words, but the whole political system is rotten to the core - I guess that I am one of many that thinks that way these days.

      1. 60
        BadCoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not Northern Ireland where you imposed a Terrorist Government upon us !

  9. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    You have a point Ryan, and I could be completely wrong here - I frankly have almost no information about the issue, except from this thread. smile

  10. ScarletRyan1970 profile image61
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago


    Knew it would'nt take long!

    We are discussing The Lisbon Treaty B.C.
    Northern Ireland belong to Britian B.C.
    You guys up in the North will have no say in the Lisbon Treaty.
    And thankyou for taking yourself off my Fan list.
    I don't need fans like you on it.
    In my oponion, we should be handing Ireland back to Britian and asking for forgivness for the mess it is in.
    I rather have Ireland ruled by Britian than Europe.
    And i am not the only one that is saying that around here on the ground.

    1. BristolBoy profile image82
      BristolBoyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Funnily enough I was reading an article on a major newspaper website which said just the same thing about many Irish wanting to be part of Britain once again and out of the EU. 

      Two of the best countries in the world (in my opinion) are Norway and Iceland.  Both had chances in the past to join teh EU and both rejected it, seemingly to their own individual advantages.  Large reasons for both countries wishing not to join was to do with the loss of national fishing rights (remember the cod wars between Britain and Iceland).  Also Norway wanted to protect other natural resources. 

      Iceland has since messed up financially and so looks like it will join the EU due to not having much other choice (knowing if they join the EU they will be bailed out). 

      Norway however continues to be one of the best countries in the world to live in on many different indicators, as well as the government having a massive amount of money invested (think it is over $400 billion or to put it another way over 1% of global shares controlled by the Norwegian state).

    2. 60
      PirateGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The South is a mess, and we will always remain British !

      I thought you were being delighted , oops I meant deleted was thinking of yer Southern education !

      1. ScarletRyan1970 profile image61
        ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I shall be delighted when i am deleted.
        When hubpages get their act together.
        So in the mean time your stuck with me Pirategirl
        Watch this space.Love the outfit.

        1. 60
          PirateGirlposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Lol I thank you my fellow Patriot, yer ok x

  11. ScarletRyan1970 profile image61
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago



    Iceland is in a mess.
    Yes Norway would be a good place to live.
    Too bloody cold for me though.
    There are certaintly a lot of people here on the Ground that want Britian and Ireland to come together as ONE.We would be stronger together than apart.
    Fishing rights.we have no Fishing rights here in Ireland.
    Strick quotas for our Fishermen,we have the French to the East of us stealing our fish in the Irish seas,Spainish to the South and more Spainish trawlers to the west of Ireland.Sure the fishermen had a Rally during the summer,rally here in Dublin.Hundreds of them, and were giving away the fish for free.
    The Farmers here want to work with the British Farmers and forget about Brussels.
    Im all for Britian,i knew this was coming.Once we got the bloddy
    Euro.I think i would rather have the pound please.
    Thankyou for your input.Australia is a good country to live in also.They are very fair to their citizens.

  12. 60
    butleranthonyposted 7 years ago

    video which I posted onto the internet before the Malahide Bridge collapse. These are just samples of a larger collection.

    The Republic of Ireland‘s non compliance with a ratified Human Rights Convention goes back 56 years.   

    On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    The European Convention of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms was signed   on 4 November 1950. It was ratified by Ireland on 25 February 1953. It was then entered into force on 3 September 1953.

    The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union is a document enshrining certain fundamental rights. It was signed in December 2000. The Lisbon Treaty is seeking to have this Charter ratified which means if passed it would then become a law and not an aspiration.

    This Charter is a natural progression with amendments of the Declaration of 1948.  Although many of the articles of both Charter and Declaration may agree in principle they are arranged in a different word order.

    Article 2.1 of the Charter states that

    Everyone has a right to life.

    Article 3 of the Declaration states that

    Everyone has a right to life, liberty and security of person

    However the Convention which was ratified states that

    Everyone’s rights to life shall be protected by law

    The Republic of Ireland signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child on 30 September 1990 and ratified it, without reservation, on 21 September 1992

    The Convention deals with the child-specific needs and rights. It requires that states act in the best interests of the child.

    In accordance with this Convention a child must have the same rights as an adult and more.

    Therefore in accordance with the Convention of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms which was ratified by Ireland the life of a child must be protected by law

    In the Republic of Ireland in many instances the life of a child or an adult is not protected by law

    The Right to Life written into the Irish Constitution refers only to the life of an unborn child

    Article 17 of the Convention states that

    Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction of the rights and freedoms set forth herein or at their limitations than is provided for in the Convention

    The deliberate omission of Article 2.1 is a violation of Article 17

    Article 56 of the Road Traffic Act 1933 which is still in use in Ireland states that

    “”Obligation to be insured or guaranteed

    It shall not be lawful for any person (hereinafter referred to

    as the said driver) at any time to drive in a public place a

    mechanically propelled vehicle unless either a vehicle insurer, a

    vehicle guarantor, or an exempted person would be legally liable for

    injury caused by the negligent driving of such vehicle””

    The above is cited as an example of compulsory insurance

    The Irish insurance industry is a major contributor to the Irish economy.

    In many instances the Republic of Ireland does not have a law to help prevent death or serious injury but it does have laws whereby an injured person or the next of kin of a deceased person can claim compensation arising as a result of such accidents or incidents.

    This suggests very strongly that the law to protect life was deliberately omitted by the Republic of Ireland for nefarious purposes.

    Although health and safety awareness appears to be very acute in Ireland in fact much of this is geared almost entirely to work related concerns. Health and safety awareness and health and safety organisations such as the Health and Safety Authority have no jurisdiction or input into public arenas such as streets in towns or villages unless it is work related.

    On the streets of the Republic of Ireland potentially lethal situations that would never be tolerated on building sites or elsewhere are common place. If they pose an immediate hazard to life and limb, in all probability they will be attended to almost as soon as they are reported. If they do not pose an immediate threat they could remain in that state for years.

    There is absolutely no one responsible for rectifying these situations. They are not the responsibility of the Garda Siochána, Local Authorities, Health and Safety Authority or elected representatives. They are not illegal.

    All inquiries of an official nature, if replied to, invariably evolve around two things. Denial of responsibility on their behalf and the knowledge that such matters can only be dealt with through the medium of compensation claims and liability.

    Their prime concern, if they have any concern at all centres almost entirely around the aftermath of an accident. Prevention and the fact that someone could be killed or seriously injured very seldom enter the equation. It should be stressed that this observation only applies if the individual or organisation replying to the query is not directly involved.

    There are groups of persons such as fire fighters, Gardaí and members of other rescue organisations that risk their lives to save the lives of others on a daily basis.  Over the years a number of those persons have paid the ultimate price.

    Very possibly unknown to themselves they are risking their lives in spite of the fact that the law to protect life is not in the country.

    This violation of Articles 2.1 and 17 of the Convention of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms which was ratified by Ireland has continued in Ireland since 1953.

    As the International Human Rights Community has continuously ignored these violations it becomes apparent that Human Rights are not a main priority to anyone except to those directly affected.

    It is also quite apparent that even if the Lisbon Treaty is ratified, the ratification will mean very little except to those with a vested interest in promoting it.

    In conclusion I would like to point out that this letter is written purely on humanitarian grounds. I do not have any affiliation with any anti-Treaty or any anti-Government groups or organisations.

    Is mise le meas

    Anthony O’Hagan

    Watch this video which was posted on to the internet before a railway bridge collapsed in Ireland

    The video is entitled


    URL:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERyKihaUUlU

  13. ScarletRyan1970 profile image61
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    I don't have to eatch the video'
    I was on the Train.
    We were very luck.

  14. BritFun profile image22
    BritFunposted 7 years ago

    I hope they vote "No".

    It's a disgrace that they're being asked to vote again - they already voted - and they voted "No".

    Which part of "No" don't the EU understand??

    I would like to think that even some who voted "yes" last time would vote "no" this time - just to make the point that it's wrong to keep having votes until you get the answer you want.

    Sadly - I fear that quite a lot of people will change to "yes" because of fears over the economy.

    It's a fair bet, that if the Irish vote "yes" - they won't be asked a third time!

    There are a lot of people in the UK (who were promised a vote but didn't get one) - hoping for an Irish "No" vote today - but I fear we're going to be disappointed.

  15. euro-pen profile image80
    euro-penposted 7 years ago

    I don't understand the hatred towards the EU and the Brussels institutions. And this comes from a person who was quite sceptical before our accession to the EU (Austria joined - together with Finland and Sweden in 1995 after a 66 % pro vote in a general referendum).

    Of course, there is a lot to critize but it would probably too much to expect an utopia.

    I really like the idea of a unified Europe based upon some common and fundamental values.

    On a more practical level: Ireland would be in even more dire circumstances now without the EU due to the economic crisis. Indeed, Ireland would probably be on the edge of bankruptcy (or at least massive currency crisis) just like Iceland.

    Of course this holds true for all other countries. I remember quite well the mess of the currency crisis in 1992. This was a huge shock for quite many countries. I would not like to think about the impacts of the current crisis without the now much more advanced institutions (among them of course the ECB and the common currency, even this is a somewhat different story).

    Though I am not a true fan of EU and Brussels I dislike national policies even more. Im really tired and sick of the national politicians nowadays. Actually, I am very happy now that my country is a member of the EU since this acts as perfect checks and balances against the craziness of our national policies/politicians (for whom I lost almost all of my respect.

    If there would not be already a European Union we probably would need to invent it smile

  16. BritFun profile image22
    BritFunposted 7 years ago

    They voted Yes.

    Very sad.

  17. CMHypno profile image90
    CMHypnoposted 7 years ago

    So they have voted yes.

    Which raises the totally unacceptable image of Tony Blair as EU President - yuck!