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A Nuclear Iran

  1. Harvey Stelman profile image60
    Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago

    Who among you is willing to admit they did not believe Iran wanted nuclear weapons? Talk the talk, now walk the walk!

    1. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Iran has always wanted Nuclear weapons, no doubt about it.

      jon

    2. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I don't think anyone could deny that Iran has always wanted nuclear weapons.  The possession of nuclear weapons gives you a seat in the world arena and assures that you will at least be heard in the discussion.  Everybody knows this.  Just why has Korea gotten so much newsprint with their proliferation exhibitions?  At first we gave them the technology and even helped them set up their own nuclear power facilities.

      Why haven't we just overrun Pakistan even with our disregard for sovereign countries rights?  The Bomb that is why.

      Foreign governments and regimes have learned from us that we listen to the bomb and we negotiate with the bomb.  Don't you want one too?

    3. video lost profile image59
      video lostposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If Iran struggles to be Nuclear or not. It's their right. No body has the right to stop them specially the failed American State. If Obama wants Nijad to drop off then at the first Obama must drop off his pants.

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree, they are a stable, responsible and reasonable voice in the region. We can trust our islamic brothers to tell only the truth and to honestly work hard for peace in the region.

        1. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Why don't we butt out of both of their business?

    4. Tackle This profile image60
      Tackle Thisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I am so, SO sick of the "left."  If they had it their way, Israel would be living on dingies at sea and trying their best to find fresh drinking water.  One wanna-be-reporter here on hub pages has even suggested that it is somehow okay for those living nearest and/or amongst Jews to lob rockets at Jews -- after all their rockets cannot be aimed very well.  Idiot. 

      "Tackle This:" If you can, LOL. 1) 11/04/2008 was NOT about history having been made. If it were, the honorable Alan Keyes, would have been seeking re-election. Ha, touche!

      I am a Christian and proud to be an "Evil right-wing extremist." After all, we are responsible for most of the violent crime in the U.S. I am facetious and the "left" is, by and large, not all that well educated.

      If they were, they would bring concrete numbers to arguments concerning abortion, violent crime etc, etc. Idiots.

      1. rhamson profile image77
        rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I really think you are right.  Your passion and ire really make the point and validate all your claims.  The left must be a bain to your existence and because you think so strongly about it they should be cast out of this country so the right thinkers can finally get it done right.

        You seem to be against free thought and sticking to a topic with a firm conversation about the ideas being expressed.  You choose to pick a boogey man and turn all your frustration to destroying him so that you can proove you are right.

        Not talking to people and listening to what they have to say got us into this whole mess in the first place.  You seem to continue to promote this failed way of tackling the issues.

        1. tksensei profile image61
          tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That's "bane."

        2. Tackle This profile image60
          Tackle Thisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You mean how I wasn't able to stick to the topic at hand when I said: "If the left had their way, Israel would be residing on dingies at sea and searching for palatable drinking water?  Nah, that wasn't at all on-point. <snipped - no personal attacks in the Forums>

          1. rhamson profile image77
            rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            My we are an angry little man aren't we.  I guess the name calling and judgemental tone of your comments only adds to your charm.

            The topic is "A Nuclear Iran"  Is reading a new skill or do you make it up as you go along.  Your penchant to throw up feelings get in the way of trying to take what you say seriously.

            If you could put your bias and attitude in your hip pocket for awhile you may just learn something.

            If you can look past your nose could you comment on the subject?

      2. Make  Money profile image74
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am a Christian too.  To me and most Christians around the world the "moral" US Righteous Right seem like a bunch of war mongers.  How is that pro life?  It's not.  You are a contradiction within yourself.  Just like the entire US Righteous Right are or as you call them "Evil right-wing extremists".  You people have hijacked Christianity in the US to make it something completely different.  You are Forcing God's Hand just like the writer Grace Halsell says in her book of the same name.  The Customer Reviews will tell you what the book is about.  Just the last sentence from the first Customer Review shows how scary and wrong you characters are; "If you are concerned about a racist type of Christianity that's on the rise today, one that does not believe in separation of church and state and is actively trying to convert this nation from a Democracy to a 'Theocracy' then you should read this book."  All of the Customer Reviews are worth reading.  It would be a good idea to post all of the Customer Reviews on here.   
        http://www.amazon.com/Forcing-Gods-Hand … 0967401313

        1. Mitch Rapp profile image62
          Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Why are you attacking the US? The way you talk all Christians in America are foaming at the mouth and ready to kill there neighbor. Can you differentiate between some American Christians may be unbalanced loons and some not?

          If I believed everything I heard about France then I would think the French are all cowards! Canadians are all bastard children of Queen Elizabeth and all Australians were criminals. Its a good thing I can distinguish between good and bad people!

          1. Make  Money profile image74
            Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Not all Christians in the US would consider themselves part of the US Righteous Right.  The 1st and 2nd Customer Reviews of Grace Halsell's book Forcing God's Hand from the link above clearly shows who she and myself are talking about.  They are deceiving a lot of people.  Here's the 3rd Customer Review of 19.

            "Forcing God's Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture and the Destruction of the Planet Earth throws considerable light on apocalyptic motifs in culture, psychology, and politics. It forces the question, What kind of species are we that we can lock ourselves into a gospel of violence such as found in the Schofield Reference Bible? Halsell has perhaps opened a door for better understanding why the horror fiction of Hal Lindsay and Stephen King excite so many of our friends. What is really scary, however, is the number of people who want to insert the premillennial script into real national and international politics. One other point: Halsell makes it clear that when it comes to the will-to-power-and-to-dominate, the apocalyptic preachers' "Christ" makes Stalin look like a puff of wind. Joe Barnhart, Professor of Philosophy and Religion Studies, University of North Texas"

            This basically explains how people that call themselves Christian can find joy in seeing one group of people entirely subjugate another group of people in the middle east.  They don't even seem to care that the group of people that are being subjugated are both Muslim and Christian.

        2. dutchman1951 profile image60
          dutchman1951posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Agree make Money, I so agree wth you

          Jon

    5. Pr0metheus profile image60
      Pr0metheusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      They don't - they just want to prove to the world that they could have them if they want to.

    6. Rhianni32 profile image80
      Rhianni32posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm a liberal.
      Iran has wanted nuclear weapons for awhile now.
      SHOCKING!

      Countries can build up a homeland security policy all they want. When that includes denying another countries right to existence and calling for their extermination that's quite different.
      If America were to say such and such a country needs to be wiped out and their population executed then yeah we shouldnt have nuclear weapons either.

      I can't blame Iran for wanting nukes though. Its the thing to do these days and all the cool kids are doing it.
      Nuclear weapons are going to be more common place as time goes on. Its an eventuality.

    7. aware profile image70
      awareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      For us a nation with thousands of war heads. And the best delivery systems on earth.To  sit here and tell a nation with not one. a nation mind you that we have many of our nukes pointed at, for us to sit here and insist that they cant have one and threaten them with war if they do . Is totally unacceptable.i love my country . But we have a huge hypocrisy problem that we must address .i think

      1. tksensei profile image61
        tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Really? When was the last time the government rounded up thousands of Americans and commanded them to chant 'Death to Iran'? Is it part of official US policy that God demands we wipe Iran off the map? Where are the obligatory prayers among Americans that every last Iranian be converted or killed? Is it the official stance of the US government to deny the mass killings of Persians by invading Mongols?

  2. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    The most obvious Lie ever told and our liberal friends are buying it lock stock and barrel!

    1. profile image0
      Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Only because it fits their agenda

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        As usual, you're right on the money!

    2. profile image0
      ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Are you saying that you have to be republican to believe that Iran has motives for the development of WMD?

      Can you blame liberal thinking people for being cynical, your country has reached record levels of external debt to help finance the last war you had over non-existant nuclear weapons.

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You mean WMDs? He used them on the Curds. The fact that he was assembleing materials that are consistant with neuclear weapons doesn't mean anything.

        1. profile image0
          ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Are we talking about Iran or Iraq here? Because you may, or may not, notice that I have not stated whether I do - or do not - believe that Iran intends to develop nuclear weapons.

          1. profile image0
            ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well come on then sneako, what are you talking about? What is your argument?

            1. profile image0
              A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              His argument was that we did not go to Iraq seeking Nuclear weapons, we went looking for Weapons of mass destruction! Could there have been Nuclear weapons? Possibly. Was there weapons of mass destruction? Probably, is Sarin gas a WMD? Yes, they had it!

              1. profile image0
                ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                So why did Bush admit that he/America were WRONG.

                WMD? ludicrious. You could make a pretty effective WMD out of everyday chemicals purchased from hardware stores.

                1. profile image0
                  A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I am sure it was what the rest of the world needed, for him to grovel. There were WMD's there he used Chemicals on his own people. We took the Country from a mad man who sponsored terrorism, no matter the outcome for US reputation Iraq will be the better for it. And just my opinion I couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks of us, there are many more people like me than like the hand wringers!

                  1. egiv profile image75
                    egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Then why are we not in Zimbabwe fighting Mugabe? Enlighten me please. If we are the humanitarian police of the world where the were we in Rwanda? Darfur? We invaded Iraq for reasons that were PROVEN FALSE. We didn't invade them because Saddam was bad, we invaded in "retribution" for 9/11, which Saddam had nothing to do with. Now, we are securing nice little oil deals; how convenient!

                2. Harvey Stelman profile image60
                  Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this
            2. Harvey Stelman profile image60
              Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this
      2. Harvey Stelman profile image60
        Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        What a fool they have produced in a wonderful country. Republican's bare respnsibility for this also, it's just that they have NO power now.

        If Iran nukes Israel, do you think they will stop there? What about the "fall-out" that wil drop over Arabic countries. Iran does not care.

      3. ScarletRyan1970 profile image59
        ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Here, show me where the button is, I would press it. No problem.
        Just to get rid of a load of junkkkkkk that is walking around out there.

        1. profile image0
          Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Only problem is "the button" is non-partisan

        2. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sweetie if someone there is bothering you, you're acctually going to have to ask someone there for help we're in the computer. There you go now, thats a good lass!

    3. James Agbogun profile image74
      James Agbogunposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The issue is Iran, not liberals.

  3. egiv profile image75
    egivposted 7 years ago

    Have any of you that are so much better, smarter, wiser, and more right than anyone else, considered that who are we to decide who gets what in the world? That MAYBE Americans are not better than everyone else just for being American?

    It was people like you who argued that if we didn't "save" Vietnam, the whole world would fall to Communism. People like you that said we need to attack Iraq so they couldn't use their "WMDs" against us.

    What's the matter Harvey, Israel can't fight a war when the enemy has the same technology? Do they only do massacres?

    Ok, now go back to telling yourselves how smart you are...

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You need a different breakfast cereal! We aren't but we do know a bunch of bull when we hear it. We don't allways think PC is the correct way to be but, not to fear, we have a fine collection of whiners here as well so you would fit in well!

    2. profile image0
      A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Classic case of Antisemitism

      1. egiv profile image75
        egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        What a joke. Is that your best response? Can't think of anything legitimate to say? Anyway, you are just proving me right. I said that people like you were those that were paranoid of communism and landed us in Vietnam; ever heard of Joe McCarthy? Evidently the MO has not changed: arguments are difficult to respond to, but names are easy to throw around.

        I am NOT an anti-semite.

        1. Harvey Stelman profile image60
          Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this
      2. Harvey Stelman profile image60
        Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks Tex.

      3. Make  Money profile image74
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That has to be the most overused inaccurate term in the English language.  All of the Palestinians are Semites.  Some of the Jews are Semites.  You need to pick a different explosive term Texan.  Try antizionists.

        1. profile image0
          A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No antisemitic fits perfectly.

          1. egiv profile image75
            egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Israel is not the same as Jewish people. Do you understand this or no? It's really not a difficult concept. I can dislike the actions of the state of Israel, but that does not make me anti-semetic.

            You, on the other hand, declared that we should drop a nuke on Afghanistan. According to your rationale, that makes you racist against muslims, and is a much more offensive statement than any I have made.

            Maybe you are just a little too anti-intelligent.

            1. profile image0
              A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I know what Israel is and I know you hate Jews! I do hate Muslims all Muslims! Unlike you I admit it!

    3. Harvey Stelman profile image60
      Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You large piece of ****. If I said what you did, you would call me anti-Semetic. We aren't deciding alone smart ass. I was one of YOU during Vietnam. My intelligence taught me to change much of my thinking a few years later.

      So you want your kids to sing songs praising Obama! Tell me all of his accomplishments with a Democratic Congress? The short amount of time is no longer a valid argument.

      1. egiv profile image75
        egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Wow, great insult; you are good at making a fool of yourself. I never asked anyone to praise Obama.

        Guess what? There is a difference between Jewish people and the state of Israel. Disagreeing with the policies of Israel is not being anti-semetic.

        But, turns out the only way you can argue is by name-calling, as you clearly have nothing intelligent to add. Is that why you must respond 12 times? Couldn't fit it all in one post? Insecure?

        1. blue dog profile image80
          blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          eglv,
          he's feeling lonely.  on the good side, he did set a new hubpages record for most consecutive posts in a single thread.  he broke the old one set by, you guessed it, ol' harve himself. 

          of course, there is the possibility that he enjoys seeing his name at the top of the forum board for copious amounts of time.

    4. profile image0
      SalesScoopposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Good point. Let's make a deal. You can have your WMD's, then when us Americans feel the least bit threatened we will flatten the country, and pave a big landing strip in the center for Air Force one.

  4. Dame Scribe profile image61
    Dame Scribeposted 7 years ago

    A country with unstable leadership and peoples makes it too easy to press a button hmm therefore deserving to be a worry worldwide, jus my thoughts.

  5. egiv profile image75
    egivposted 7 years ago

    What makes their leadership more unstable than Israel's? Last I checked, Israel is constantly using their force against neighbors, with civilian death counts greatly outnumbering military.

    What makes a population stable? If there is a way to gauge this, I could judge the American population extremely unstable right now.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thats why we have a system of checks and balances to curb the extreme position.

      1. Harvey Stelman profile image60
        Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That system is in danger.

    2. Harvey Stelman profile image60
      Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I chaned my mind, you are an anti-semetic piece of garbage.

    3. Jellyrug profile image61
      Jellyrugposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well, everyone still seems to be buying truckloads full of Dollars, including China. Didn't hear anyone wanting some Iranian Rial's. You don't think that says something about stability?

      1. egiv profile image75
        egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The comparison is between Israel and Iran, not the United States and Iran. What do dollars have to do with anything.

    4. shai77 profile image81
      shai77posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well i guess you didn't check too good.

  6. Direxmd profile image88
    Direxmdposted 7 years ago

    Harvey is a giant tool.  It's been terribly obvious that Iran has wanted nuclear weapons since 1979, there's no doubt about that.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hes a tool because you have to admit the truth about a situation? Who's the tool?

      1. Harvey Stelman profile image60
        Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks for the protection from a real tool.

    2. Harvey Stelman profile image60
      Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      So why am I a tool?

  7. Shil1978 profile image87
    Shil1978posted 7 years ago

    A nuclear Iran looks inevitable now. With the Iraq experience, I don't see Obama or the Europeans doing anything to prevent Iran from going nuclear.

    Sanctions aren't going to help prevent Iran going nuclear. It could have been a good first step, but even on that, agreement across the board is missing.

    If countries such as China continue to have normal relations with Iran, sanctions just won't hurt!!!

    1. Harvey Stelman profile image60
      Harvey Stelmanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well said!

    2. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree, Sanctions are not going to stop them, they already have the technology and are making the Bombs now. Sanctions are like closing the barn door after the Horse ran out.

      1. Shil1978 profile image87
        Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So - is there a solution? Or, should we all come to terms with a nuclear Iran and hope that they are responsible with nuclear weapons??

    3. andromida profile image76
      andromidaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I also think so.thanks.

  8. emdi profile image73
    emdiposted 7 years ago

    We will all see, Iran will cheat us all and one day Iran will be have nuclear weapons and several other countries will be motivated to have it in the same way as Iran. Iran will continue to threaten the world and even Israel won't be allowed to prevent Iran. Unfortunately nothing could be done now, as the whole world got tired of two wars started by Bush.

  9. profile image61
    khoustelloposted 7 years ago

    Where do they get the kryton high speed high voltage switches from and the electron guns?Have they gone beyond production of yellowcake?

  10. Shil1978 profile image87
    Shil1978posted 7 years ago

    Sanctions may work if China stops being the spoiler. I think Russia would come on board on sanctions, but the Chinese have always played spoiler.

  11. Dame Scribe profile image61
    Dame Scribeposted 7 years ago

    These facilities will be operational sooner than the 18 mos that's being stated hmm as I said, the instability would worry me with their 'the eyes of our enemies will be blinded' comment. Scary.

  12. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    I heard on the ABC radio that Iran would provide full access to the site. Any bets on if they will or not? smile

    1. Shil1978 profile image87
      Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I wouldn't bet they will. They are pretty smart on how they use their words. Their strategy all along has been to talk and buy time. They might keep talking till they explode the bomb!!!

  13. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image60
    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago

    The arming of Iran with nukes is most dangerous for India. The only country in between Iran and India is  Pakistan, which is also anti-Indian. India being the most-to-be-affected country, our sentiments are never counted by western countries. They seem not to understand what would happen if India succumbs to muslim fundamentalists. They continue arming and aiding Pakistan, in the guise of "drive against terror", Pakistan itself being the hub of terrorists.

  14. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Here's an alternative plan.

    Speed up the disarmament process.  Make all nations that have nuclear weapons eliminate all of them by this time next year.  That includes the US and Israel.  Assign a body of inspectors to monitor this process.  The inspectors should only come from nations that do not have nuclear weapons, aka peaceful countries.  Then closely monitor all scientists that have the knowledge to build nuclear weapons.  Capture and purge all written knowledge to build nuclear or atomic weapons.  Purge these despicable weapons out of existence.  This may have to include the purging of all nuclear power generating stations and knowledge to build them, they are not safe anyway.  The results would be a huge sigh of relief heard around our little planet.

    Texan I know that not all Texans are haters like yourself but many are.  Because of people like you Texas has been dubbed the hate state.

    1. Shil1978 profile image87
      Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      In an ideal world - that would be a good idea. But, realistically, is that workable? I mean would the countries that have them ever give them up? The honest answer to that would be a big NO.

      So, idealism aside, what are the realistic options? Talking about Iran - from what Ahmedinejad keeps saying, it is a frightening thought to visualize a nuclear Iran!!

      1. Make  Money profile image74
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It is not workable or realistic if it is not initiated Shil.  But the process has been started again just 6 days ago.  Yeah it must be a frightening thought for Iranians and people of other countries in the middle east that Israel has nuclear weapons as well.

        Russia, U.S. start new round of nuclear disarmament talks
        "GENEVA, Sept. 21 (Xinhua) -- Negotiators from Russia and the United States opened here on Monday a new round of talks aimed at a replacement for the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START I).

            The closed-door talks were opened at the Russian mission to the United Nations Office in Geneva, and they would later be transferred to the U.S. mission, diplomatic sources said, adding that discussions may last two weeks.

            Five rounds of full-fledged talks have been held between the two sides since Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and his U.S. counterpart Barack Obama agreed in London in early April to start talks for a new arms reduction treaty."


        Also on September 23, 2009 "Gordon Brown has said he is willing to cut Britain's fleet of Trident missile-carrying submarines from four to three as part of global disarmament efforts."
        Britain Ready To Cut Nuclear Sub Fleet

        This is a good start but it needs to be sped up.  It would be nice to see all nations that have nuclear weapons join in this disarmament process, including Israel.

        1. Shil1978 profile image87
          Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          MM - honestly, the whole disarmament process is a PR exercise. No one would oppose it publicly. They would all say the right words in front of TV cameras, but I ain't betting that we'd see disarmament of nuclear weapons in 5 years or 20 years. Its a genie that ain't gonna go back in the bottle.

          1. Make  Money profile image74
            Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well it is certainly not going to go back in the bottle with that attitude.  That is a defeatist attitude.  With enough opposition to nuclear weapons by people of all nations heard around the world it would definitely speed up the process.

            1. Shil1978 profile image87
              Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Personally, I ain't one to look at things negatively. However, I admire the fact that you hold our world leaders in such high esteem and expect that they would be honest in their efforts at disarmament.

              People around the world aren't given to demonstrating on such issues and building pressure on the politicians. Countries continue to pursue policies that suit their real or perceived interests. So, I ain't counting "people" to play any role in nuclear disarmament!!

  15. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Shil I do not hold our world leaders in high esteem.  Demonstrating against nuclear weapons has put pressure on the politicians in the past.  If the demonstrations increase so will the pressure on the politicians to speed up the process.  I do not see sanctions on Iran doing anything.  What might make a difference to Iranian leaders is if Israel starts a disarmament process themselves.

    Mike

    1. tksensei profile image61
      tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh that would make a difference alright. The difference is that they would be thrilled and Israel would soon cease to exist.

      1. Make  Money profile image74
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I did not say that Israel should eliminate all of it's nuclear weapons immediately.  If Israel started a process of nuclear disarmament it would at least be an olive branch for peace and a start.  "According to the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Federation of American Scientists, Israel possesses around 75–200 (nuclear) weapons."  If it is on the high side then Israel has more nuclear weapons than North Korea and possibly India and Pakistan.
        Source

        For security the world needs more than Non-Proliferation (testing of new weapons).  Nations need to eliminate the stock piles held today.  Our planet would not survive a world nuclear war.  It is insane that all nations that have nuclear weapons stock pile so many of them.

        1. tksensei profile image61
          tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          If someone stood in front of you with a stick of dynamite in their hand with a burning fuse and said in no uncertain terms that they hated you and that their most sacred responsibility was to see to it that you cease to exist, would your first inclination be to extend an olive branch? How would it work out if you did?

          1. Make  Money profile image74
            Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That is what Israel is to other nations in the middle east.  To be a little diplomatic you have to look at both sides of the equation.

            1. Flightkeeper profile image78
              Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              This doesn't make sense.  It was Israel who was attacked by the Arabs at least three separate times.

            2. tksensei profile image61
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              To which country has Israel said it is their national mission (as ordainef by God) to see it wiped from the map?

              1. Make  Money profile image74
                Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Palestine and have you seen their plans for Greater Israel.
                http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/images/thepromisedland.gif

              2. egiv profile image75
                egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Palestine. Except they didn't say it, they just did it.

                1. tksensei profile image61
                  tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Wrong. Thanks for playing.

                  1. egiv profile image75
                    egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Just because you say so? Sorry pal, it's true. Israel claims that the land of Israel is theirs because it is promised to them by god (i.e. a natural mission ordained by god, as you said). But wait, there were already muslims living there. There was no official state because the British controlled it, it wasn't just some open land that nobody claimed yet. Who was there before the British? Oh, right, the muslim Ottoman Empire.

                2. Flightkeeper profile image78
                  Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  That's not true.  When Israel became a country the Arab countries around it said that they were going to attack and that the Muslims should clear out so that they don't get hurt.  The Muslims that left, and expected to come back after the Israelis were slaughtered, are the displaced Palestinians.  The Muslims that are living in Israel were the ones who stayed and actually many of them fought for what they consider their country too.

                  1. egiv profile image75
                    egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, it is. Your missing the point. Israel just declared that the land was theirs, because god said so. Most of the Palestinians who don't think this is right are stuffed into Gaza, a giant slum whose water, electricity and other essentials are controlled, and often just shut off, by Israel. Israel is building neighborhoods (settlements) in Palestinian territory illegally, hoping that when the time comes to make two states, that territory will become theirs because it is predominantly Jewish.

                    The last "official state" was the muslim Ottoman Empire, which lasted hundreds of years, so don't say it was just empty land ready for the taking. I suppose you think there was nobody in North America when the settlers arrived as well? Makes for convenient history.

        2. tksensei profile image61
          tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          The planet would be just fine. Humanity would not do so well.

          1. Make  Money profile image74
            Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Brilliant. roll

        3. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree Mike, I think Israel should aim for peace initiatives that can work.
          As far as getting rid of all the nuclear power stations, I think many countries would find that difficult without a lot more sharing of resources. smile

          1. tksensei profile image61
            tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            And just what initiatives "can work" when the other side has determined that God demands they never give up the stuggle until your nation and all your people cease to exist?

            1. earnestshub profile image87
              earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              what do you suggest TK?

              1. tksensei profile image61
                tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Security through strength until the Palestinians decide they really want peace (and the Muslim nations of the region allow it).

          2. dutchman1951 profile image60
            dutchman1951posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Stopping the Settlements and tearing down the Border walls and crossings would be a great Olive Branch I Think

            Jon

            1. tksensei profile image61
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Or, they could just perform a number of public human sacrifices of Jewish men, women, children, and the elderly to satisfy their friendly neighbors. Same result.

          3. Make  Money profile image74
            Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah I hear you Earnest.  The reason why I suggested to get rid of all the nuclear power stations as well as the stock pile of nuclear weapons in a previous post is because I have read that there is a lot of nuclear waste from nuclear power stations and that nuclear waste is used to make nuclear weapons.  Also that nuclear waste has to be contained some how so it doesn't contaminate our water and environment if it is not used to make weapons.  If this is true then I figured it would be a good idea to get rid of the source, being the nuclear power stations.

            1. tksensei profile image61
              tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              How do you feel about burning fossil fuels?

  16. ScarletRyan1970 profile image59
    ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago

    We are all headed for war no doubth about that.
    Right accross the Globe including Europe.
    Who were the first ones to blast off a Nuck.
    That's right.I shall say no more.
    Frankly my dear i don't give a dame.

    1. tksensei profile image61
      tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Nope

      1. ScarletRyan1970 profile image59
        ScarletRyan1970posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes we are.
        But i shall not concern myself
        with the bussinesss of the world
        I am quite safe where i reside.
        Nope,does that stand for dope.
        Or are you just smoking too much of it.
        Just curious.

        1. tksensei profile image61
          tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Is that a personal attack?

  17. dutchman1951 profile image60
    dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

    I wounder what the People living in Iran think of all of this?

    curious for a true answer


    Jon

  18. thranax profile image51
    thranaxposted 7 years ago

    Iran wants nuclear weapons right? Well..we have a few thousand of them, lets sell 10-20 of them to Iran. Why not let them have it? They pay us the little money the country has, we leave a self destruct button in them, its a win win! We make money, we make them happy, and we neutralize the future threat.

    ~thranax~

  19. gandalfthegrey profile image61
    gandalfthegreyposted 7 years ago

    They will pay a very steep price for that pursuit of nuclear weapons. Europe is very nervous, the Russians and Chinese are beginning to see the threat to Peace emerging and are beginning to "see the light". Russia and China will do nothing until an attack on Iran is imminent, then they will see no benefit to themselves if Israel or the U.S. attacks the nuke plants.
    Until we are at the edge, they will continue to consider if they will benefit from the current impasse. When they realize, that when forced to be aggressive the U.S. and Israel are not quite so easy to "calm down". (once the blood is up, it takes a long time to cool)

  20. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    My reading of Iran today is that the greatest mass of Iranian people do not support the present incumbent, however, their national pride is offended by the West telling them what military toys and technologies they can and can't have. Our arrogance in this regard is endangering the undoubted friendship that young Iran in particular feels towards us. Instead, we should be cultivating this friendship.

    Iran nearly imploded only a few months ago and is still likely to do so again, but this time with feeling.

    The lead time from now until any serious nuclear strike by Iran is probably longer than the lifetime of the present regime.

    And I agree with Mike that Israel needs to make a meaningful gesture - halting their expansionist policy and a degree of nuclear disarmament. Hard line leadership in Israel strengthens rather than weakens the hard line Iranian hierarchy.

    But, on past form, I am afraid that Israel is more likely to go it alone with a 'pre-emptive strike' which will reverberate disastrously for another twenty years.

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I think if we are to influence Israel in anyway it has to be financially.  With over three billion dollars worth of support from the US,  Israel may have more at stake to listen to us and less tendency to make empty gestures.  However our own corrupt politics with its' lobbyist dollars will put a quick and decisive kabosh on any steps in that direction.  Funny how we the people have about as little control of our government as the Iranians have of theirs.

    2. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image60
      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Israel is at liberty to do whatever necessary to ensure and safeguard its own existence and security of its people. No one asks muslim countries not to harm and hurt the Israeli people.
      As if they are at liberty to harm the jews as and when they find time...  But I think Israel will not be alone in safeguarding its existence.

      1. Paraglider profile image88
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not quite - many people ask all players in the Middle East to cool down and draw back from the cycle of aggression.

  21. profile image0
    ralwusposted 7 years ago

    Well speaking of Israel and Iran, nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.

  22. tksensei profile image61
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    Not to mention that there was no country there in the first place. And isn't it nice of all the Muslim nations in the region to refuse to accept the 'Palestinian refugees' so they won't lose the PR value? Truly a brotherhood of faith...

    1. Flightkeeper profile image78
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That is true of most countries in the Middle East. Borders were made were none existed.

  23. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    What we're seeing here (on this forum thread) is very typical of every border/territorial dispute the world over. Pepole taking entrenched positions based on their view of history and perceived (unforgiven) wrongs in the past.
    Such disputes are never settled until the main representatives of both sides stop looking back and look instead at moving from the status quo to a better future. There's no alternative, except further war.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image78
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately true.  It's part of human nature to be upset when you lose something, whether that's your house or country.

      1. Paraglider profile image88
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That's true, and actually both sides have lost a lot. And both can prove they are the more wronged party. We need a few more Desmond Tutu clones around the world smile

    2. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree that arguments like this usually get into a tit for tat but when the other side trys to establish legitimacy through inuendo it is hard for it not to turn into this type of discussion.

      What always gets my ire is when Americans cannot see where they have played a significant role in the problem and continue to this day.  Our support for Israel both politically and monetarily sets us up as an enemy to many Arab nations.  You can say that we have great relationships with some of them like Saudi Arabia but is it a true friendship when support for nations against Israel is given by them.  Most of the hijackers on 911 were from Saudi Arabia.

      1. Paraglider profile image88
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        USA is playing a very dangerous and cynical game in the Middle East. They are keeping Israel armed to the teeth, while also maintaining a military base and (by all accounts) a formidable arsenal here in Qatar (just across the Gulf from Iran). Faced with this, why would Iran not want to arm itself accordingly? Sooner or later, weapons get used, with the exception, so far, of nuclear ones (apart from WW2 in Japan, the test bed for all time).

  24. Flightkeeper profile image78
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    Sorry, have to go. No hard feelings. This was just a discussion for me.

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I hope we can talk again soon.

  25. rhamson profile image77
    rhamsonposted 7 years ago

    With the given nature of the middle east and all the transient states which have come and gone I wonder what would happen if Israel was made to stand on its own without the monetary support of the US.

    Would it hasten a peace accord with other nations in the area or do you think they would do the unthinkable and create a nuclear holocaust?  I wonder.

  26. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    Actually, guys, it's been a bad discussion, for reasons I mentioned earlier. As long as you keep thinking in terms of conflict, conflict is what you'll have. You reap what you sow. It's time to grow up. Even the Irish managed to do that. (I'm a Celt, so I can say that!)

    1. profile image0
      ralwusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I echo your sentiments. It is selfishness that seems to rule so many acts that may seem so well reasoned, or unreasoned.

    2. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I totally agree with you conflict only begets further conflict.  I am as guilty as anyone else in here of getting off topic and I do appologize.

      The points I try to establish are based on ownership of involvement.  To what degree are we (US) a part of the problem and what are we (US) going to do to rectify our involvement.  The topic goes horribly wrong when we(Arrogant Americans) place no fault for our actions in the past and then start about halfway through the conversation proclaiming how innocent we are and how badly we have been wronged.

      Unless we (US) understand that we are a part of the problem and step away and look at the actual transgression we will never find a way to peace.

      Too many people place the value of our military to sort out things where politics have failed. Then it is too late to compromise because of the victory the military must seek.

      1. tksensei profile image61
        tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If you personally are arrogant, that's your issue. Blanket condemnation of your own nation does NOT make you appear intellectual no matter what the professors told you in college.

        1. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Now, now! You know he means well.

        2. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well hooray for the red, white and blue is your answer? That just prooves the arrogance I was describing.  Can you not see the part we (Americans) have played in this debacle?

          I am an American and I believe our country is not right in this continuing support of Israel.  We would be screaming to highest rooftops if this sort of thing happened to us.  Oh I forgot we can bomb or invade those we do not agree with.

          Bottom line is if Israel is to exist it must do it on its' own.  Sixty years is enough!

          1. tksensei profile image61
            tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You are entitled to your OPINION, but a little logic in discourse would be nice.

            1. rhamson profile image77
              rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I appologize and yes I am guilty of that tirade.  I get very angry when someone results to judgemental and personal comments because of someones opinion expressed in earnest. 

              I am also guilty of having a passion for the subject because I believe our country has the opportunity to make a difference at the beginning of a serious issue it deserves hoand open discussion and not calling someone an idiot for their opinion.

              1. tksensei profile image61
                tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Fair enough. There are many opinions and emotion is a natural human trait. Time comes we all agree, you know we are REALLY in trouble!

  27. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    That's a good question rhamson, "to what degree are we (US) a part of the problem?"

    "Who are they to just take land for themselves?"  Another good question egiv.

    I want to correct some of the errors in some previous posts with these historic maps.

    It's been said just recently in this thread that there was never a country called Palestine.  Well that's wrong.  Here's a 1570 map of Palestine probably just before the Ottoman Empire ruled it.  You can enlarge the map from this link,
    http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/asia/pale … ondius.jpg
    http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/asia/palestine/1570_Palestinae_Hondius.jpg

    Flightkeeper said this just recently in this thread.  "What I'm saying is there were no official countries with borders in that part of the world prior to the British taking over the area.  Additionally that area that was seen as the Palestine region was split. Two-thirds went to the Muslims and became Jordan and the other third went to the Israelis."

    Nope, Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire before the British Mandate in 1917 during the first world war.  The Arab tribes with Lawrence of Arabia, a British officer kicked the Turks out.  The English deal with the Arabs was that there was not to be a Zionist state in Palestine.

    No during the British Mandate the other third did not go to the  Israelis.  Here's a 1947 map of Palestine just before the end of the British Mandate in 1948.  Note the small amount of Jewish land ownership of Palestine in 1947.  You can enlarge the map from this link,
    http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2005/10/ … gmcpem.jpg
    http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2005/10/18/palestine47.jpggmcpem.jpg

    These maps show the progression of Palestinian loss of land from 1946 to 1947 with the UN Partition Plan.  No wonder they didn't agree with it.  Then the loss to 1967, then to 2000.  You can see a larger map on this link,
    http://www.sott.net/image/image/s1/2223 … ne_map.jpg
    http://www.sott.net/image/image/s1/22233/full/israel_palestine_map.jpg

    Just 60 years later.  Imagine yourself as a Palestinian.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That would be horrible! Especially if they eat fish on friday with the Jews controlling the coast they could raise the prices so a God fearing palastinian couldn't afford to eat!

  28. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    Mike - I commend your perseverance. You must get tired of having to post the same information every time the subject of Israel/Palestine is raised in the forums. The problem is, it is very hard for anyone living in America to absorb the truth about Israel from the popularly available sources. It is rather easier for Europeans to get a balanced view. Such is the nature of propaganda and vested interests. Thanks!

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      We are ablind people led around by our noses! What would we do without the naked, unaudulterated truth!

      1. Paraglider profile image88
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Do you ever contribute, or are you just a happy sniper?

        1. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I must confess I am at the moment a sniper.  My time to write a Hub is greatly used up by work and this forum.  I will be a Hubber I promise.  You have exposed me and I beg your indulgence.

          1. Paraglider profile image88
            Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Please - my comment might have followed yours, by chance, but it was in response to sneakerocksolid, not to you. You contributed plenty to my 'in his image' thread earlier today. I'll watch out for your first hubs, with interest.

        2. profile image0
          sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Say something that makes sense. I have on this tread repeatedly. You and your enamoured budies never address a complete entry. You comment on something out of context, then you claim to be the voice of reason. Well maybe reality is relative and maybe it's not near as deep as you hope it is. Maybe what you see is the way people go and have gone throughout history. I don't where you're from so I can't imagine what experiences have shaped you opinions. You talk in circles about religion and conservatism so the only thing I can draw from that is, throw your pipe and your smoking materials out the window. You want an honest debate, be real not this miner for the thoughts locked in the rocks in someones soul.

          I base my opinions and perceptions on my reality, what I have lived and seen. Americans should stand by those who stand with us, no one should have to, but no one should be telling us what to do either. There are those of us who believe we have been tasked to stand for something, for the innocent. It's hard road to go because you make a mistake and you're the goat. Even when the rest of the world does little or nothing you're called out for trying. Are we perfect? Hell No! But were a hell of alot better than the alternative!

          1. profile image0
            sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Still waiting.

            1. Paraglider profile image88
              Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Why wait? If you want to know where I'm coming from, read my profile and a few of my hubs. I'm not answerable to you.

              1. profile image0
                sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I would never imply you were! You called me out on sharpshooting and snipeing, I'm used to your retoric. I made it clear that you don't exchange thoughts you pull things out of context then declare it infinite wisdom. If you want me to exchange and debate you need to exchange and debate. If you're going to act like a just another liberal intellectual You won't answer my challenges COMPLETELY then I'll go back to what I do best insert sarcasm here and there and move on. You don't answer to me and same applies for me to you. If you can't debate, fine, but don't put yourself out there as a intellectual because I'll spot the target on your back everytime.

                1. Paraglider profile image88
                  Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No, that's not what I do. And as a matter of fact, take it or leave it, my comment about your 'sniping' was a late night, just back from the bar, ill-judged one, which I regretted. But I have to say I see you hiding behind a facade of "I'm just a plain speaking guy". Sorry, but some things are not black and white. If you're not willing to see shades of grey, there's not much room for discussion.

                  1. profile image0
                    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Agreed. I know you're smart and so is Ralph, Lita and the other liberal thinkers here. I know what I know and thats it.

  29. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Your welcome Paraglider.  Yeah even a CBC reporter here in Canada was told by a UN envoy to Palestine this past week to keep the reports unbiased.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well there you go then! Problem solved! All the lies and misrepresentations will cease now CBC is on board! Israel will have to relocate to Alberta where we can keep our eyes on them sneaky jews!

  30. shai77 profile image81
    shai77posted 7 years ago

    Israel is not the question and it is funny to see thatIsrael is involved in this debate.The question if the world should let iran be with nuclear weapons should not be related to Israel.
    Imagine iran with this kind of weapon trying to do what Irak
    leader tried to do and take on Kuwait or other country.
    What will happen then andd who will be able to stop Iran?
    Not everything is related to Israel you know.
    If you cover your eyes the problem does not go away.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You should read more comments in the forums you would clearly see Israel and the US are the great satans of the world!

    2. egiv profile image75
      egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Israel is not involved in this? I guess their threat about pre-emptively bombing Iranian nuclear facilities doesn't really count for you. Iran's holocaust denial and the ridiculous hatred between the two... nah, that's nothing. Completely unrelated. Get a clue.

  31. dutchman1951 profile image60
    dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

    Here is an additional View of it also I found:

    Understanding the Why of the Balfour White Paper

    By Hershy Goodman

    History is history; understanding history is understanding.
    The history of the Jewish People and the British has passed through many changes. There have been periods of time when we have been close allies and periods of time when we have been bitter enemies. It is well known that the Israeli War of Independence was fought, not just against the Arabs, but also against the British.

    Contrast that to an earlier period, the period of World War I, when the relationship between the Jews and the British were in close proximity and the Balfour declaration was made declaring the intention of the British Government to establish a homeland in "Palestine" for the Jewish people.

    What caused the British to do a good deed for the Jews and what caused the British Government to turn on their promise and try to renege on their stated intention?

    The Balfour Declaration, which was written by Arthur James Balfour, the foreign secretary of Great Britain, in November of 1917, stated:

      "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."   


    Now this declaration certainly sounds like a true and altruistic manifestation of idealism. A major world government has for the first time recognized the soul yearning of the Jews to return to their homeland as a valid and legal right. How many years have the Jews wandered from country to country, denied citizenship, plundered and exploited. Now finally a major world power has recognized their legal rights to their homeland. If so, why did the British turn on the Israelis several years later and deny them the very access to immigration that they promised?

    To understand this historic document, we must view it in its true perspective. World War I was fought between the Allies and the Axis powers. The British were on the side of the allies; Germany and Turkey were on the side of the Axis powers. Until this point in time, Turkey controlled the Palestine area. The British understood that it was in their best interests to harness the Jewish Zionist aspirations for their own purposes.

    Part of the Jewish world lived under German and Turkish rule. The Zionist headquarters were at that time in Berlin. Part of the Jewish world lived in the Russian territories, who were undergoing the pangs of revolution. The other part of the Jewish world lived in the USA, which desired to remain neutral. The remaining Jews lived in the Allied counties.

    The British weighed the matter seriously. They were under the opinion that the Germans who used their influence with the Turks to promote the welfare of the Jewish population in Palestine. There were rumors that the Germans would soon recognize the Zionist dream of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. The British felt that this would cement a world wide support by the Jews with the Axis powers. The British were fearful that the Americans might be influenced to give support to the Germans.

    The British had two reasons to support the Jewish Palestinian homeland declaration. First, there was the moral support from the world at large that they hoped to enlist through the Jewish voices in the foreign lands. Secondly, was the support of the Jewish soldier in the middle east. The British were in a bloody war. If allies could be found in Palestine to fight against their enemy, let the spoils go to the victory. How many Jewish Youth volunteered and enlisted in the Jewish Legion of the British Army. This was the beginning of the Jewish Army in Israel. Jewish soldiers received British training.

    Everything went according to the British plan. The Jews were appreciative of the British recognition of the Jewish national thirst for its own homeland. Except one thing. The Arabs, fearful of the ultimate ingathering of the aggressive and advanced western style Jews, fearful of the usurping of the lands that they now claimed as theirs, began riots against the Jews. The war being over, the British, now the ruler of Palestine was saddled with making peace with the Jews and the Arabs. The Arabs represented more to the British than the Jews now possessed. Prior to the war, the British courted the Jews and sought their support. In exchange they pledged a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Now the Arab empires were more important to the British. The British were not ignorant of the importance of the oil rich middle eastern Arab counties and therefore began the sell out of the concept of a Jewish homeland.

    "Beware of the ruling authorities, for they bring a person close to them for their own needs". When they need you, they honor you. When you are no longer useful to them, they will abandon you and not stand by you in your time of need. This was the advice of the Jewish sages, as written in "Ethics of the Fathers," more than two thousand years ago. Happy are we who have truly understood this.


    Jon

  32. dutchman1951 profile image60
    dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

    What I think is we all screwed them after the War!
    I believe the conflict is man made. We split the lands, threw them togeather depending on our loyalties at the the time, then sold out for the Oil afterwards, and left them (Both sides) to fail, with Super Powers taking the side of what economicaly benefited them the most.

    The facts are that Palestinean Land was taken, and Isreal was given Legal right to it, Under the United Nations. We all screwed it up, set them on a Path to war. Abd now it is here!
    We all should take a bow!

    We need solutions for Both Peoples, fair safe borders, and all of this crap to end. It is time. Germany, England, Russia, America; we made the mess, we created it in the floor of the UN. and "ALL" of us are wrong.

    Jon

  33. rhamson profile image77
    rhamsonposted 7 years ago

    The thing we have to look for in all of this is that no one, not one of our countries can claim an innocent hand in this and we should leave the local unrest between the Israelis and the Palestinians to their own devices.  Let them work out their differences without our monetary support.

    This will not solve the problem but it will be a beginning for us to show that we are a neutral party in any political solution they wish for us to help them with and not arming one over the other.  In the Arab world if you stand with Israel you stand against Arabs.  Simple don't you think.

    Get over it will not work for them and it certainly has not worked for us.

    Now as far as Iran having nuclear capabilities I am against it but can we learn from the mess we created in that region and please talk to them?

    1. dutchman1951 profile image60
      dutchman1951posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      rhamson, I agree, I do. all the Powers who created this back then, need to be supportive of Both Peoples equaly now, face the truth! A Tall order from what is being shown I think.

      1. rhamson profile image77
        rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It is always refreshing to hear from someone in agreement.  The only part I miss is the cussing, the crying and the bellyaching we will miss out on by ending it this way smile

  34. Cranoo profile image60
    Cranooposted 7 years ago

    America is geographically in a safe location you don't have much to worry about over there, here in Europe is where all the big wars are!

  35. jackiewilliam profile image61
    jackiewilliamposted 7 years ago

    I  think almost every country want nuclear weapons, and for most of the countries, they will not use nuclear weapons.

  36. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago

    Iran agreed in talks with the United States and other major
    powers to open its newly revealed uranium enrichment plant
    near Qum to international inspection and to send most of its
    openly declared enriched uranium to Russia to be turned into
    fuel, senior American and other Western officials said.

    This illustrates that diplomacy backed by the united power of major nations can achieve success without military action.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/world … tml?emc=na

    1. tksensei profile image61
      tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And just like NK they will certainly stick to the agreement, right?

  37. dutchman1951 profile image60
    dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

    What I do not understand is this: Isreal has access to all of this information, and how the Land was Granted from Palestinean Land without Palestinian Vote or authority, right? It has all of the UN documents, arguments everything that happend then.

    So why is this not brought before International Courts, Both sides arguing and showing proof of argument, and have it settled once and for all. All Parties abiding by World Law?

    Both Palestine and Isreal told, it will follow law, or risk loss of all backing?

    All the Super Powers will be hands off, no exceptions and that means the U.S. and Syria and all others involved, and let the Court decide it, period?

    Maybe thats too civil for Extreme Religionists I guess, but It needs a real solution. Of course Palestine would have to Get a Central Goverment of authority, to represent themselves. That may be the real issue actually when I think on it more.

  38. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    It seems that fundamentalists are the problem on both sides, there are many reasonable views on both sides too.
    If the people want peace they will have to remove the loonies first.

  39. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Sneak just in case you don't know what UN Security Council member I am talking about in my last post, it's the US.  I figured everyone that was contributing to this thread would know which one I was talking about until I seen you post.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I know exactly what you're saying and allways have,you're no mystery. Your position and your loyalties were for a while, but; as you know, I caught up to you on a different tread. I would like you to try and get a handle on yourself and for one time answer my exact response to your previous post. I haven't seen anything you've written based on the exact situation and void of religious bigotry. If you really have some unbiased facts to present lets hear them.

  40. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Scroll back through the 10 pages sneak.  No, you don't even need to do that, just read the last couple of posts then ask yourself what to heck are you talking about with this "split law" that you mentioned. lol

    Good night.  Sweet dreams.

  41. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    You clearly stated they "illegaly split", what law, not interpretation, was violated? You and your backhanded insults are so constructive and informative and what I've drawn from your posts is a hugh dislike for Israel. You also have a death wish for the country of Israel.

    You seem to imply that the arab community are level headed and are, through no fault of their own, are allways persecuted by the US. That seems so consistent with a general disrespect for us as a people around the world. So, if we side with our allies I don't think it should be a surprise.

    The American tax-payer has just about had enough with the world thinking they have as much right to our policies as we do. I'm a firm believer in giving you what you want then close the door. I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy you either but at that point we would take care of ourselves. No more NATO, NORAD, UN and trade agreements. That way when we did deal with each other it would be fair, no more sweetheart deals because the world oniy cares about what they want and we should do the same.

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Even if Make Money did have a percieved (by you) bias against the nation of Israel I don't see where it changes the facts of the issue.

      Israel has possesion of land gotten through illegal means and we the US helped them right from the start.  If this is too bitter a pill to swallow then I don't know what to tell you concul your anger.

      I think that Israel has a right to exist but do I think we should foot the bill, no.  Thirty years of supporting Israel is enough.

  42. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    Well? What law?

  43. tksensei profile image61
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago

    ???????????????????????????

  44. egiv profile image75
    egivposted 7 years ago

    Rhamson, it's pointless. He surely didn't read the posts with actual information, hasn't read or studied anything substantial about the actual subject, and thus will never consider any argument that is not his. I can respect an intelligent argument, be it Republican or Democrat, but I have yet to hear one from sneak.

    This is life. It's easy to oversimplify things and throw around accusations. It's much harder to try and understand a situation. It only took one Joe McCarthy to ruin the reputation, and career, of countless incredibly intelligent men.

    1. rhamson profile image77
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      While I do believe your are right about the hopelessness this argument provides I think the real history of the conflict needs to be reiterated constantly.

      sneaker is not the only one here that blasts everybody with his opinion but the facts have to be made clear and made clear often lest we forget where it started.  So I guess I wish to be informative and try to cut through the crap the politicians and news media gloss over so people like sneaker can have the information when they emerge from the fog.

      1. Paraglider profile image88
        Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Lest we forget - absolutely correct.
        But regardless of how we got here, I think it is inconceivable that the US will continue to 'invest' such vast sums in Israel. With the biggest ever national debt and no prospect of meaningful recovery any time soon, the Government will inevitably become less willing to shell out to the pro-Israel lobby at previous rates.

        I suspect that whatever happens in the short term, the two-state solution will prove untenable, to be overtaken by a single state withing my lifetime (and I'm no spring chicken). I think it's unlikely that single state will be called Israel.

        1. rhamson profile image77
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I believe you are probably right and it is sad to have to acknowledge that the thing that will force us to change our policies is not the will of the people but the money in our purse.  But a capitalist society has the trappings of its' priorities as does any other endeavor.

        2. egiv profile image75
          egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Despite Obama's apparent curbing of Israeli influence, I have to say that I don't see any break between Israel and the United States, financially or politically, for many years to come. Further, in my opinion, the abolishment of the state of Israel will never happen.

          I just hope a reasonable 2-state system can be worked out. Obviously not everyone will be happy, but the Palestinians need self-determination and to be able to provide their own services. Hopefully (the key word) they will obtain enough in the deal to emerge from this period with a sense of pride.

        3. Ralph Deeds profile image70
          Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          As many have pointed out Jews will be a minority in a single state which means they'll lose their claim to being a democracy or they will be voted down.

          1. Paraglider profile image88
            Paragliderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That's true, Ralph, but isn't it just another example of why religion should never form the basis of any national constitution? The American founding fathers got that one right!

      2. egiv profile image75
        egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. In a perfect world, everyone has all the facts and makes a thoughtful decision based on them. But the lethal combination of ignorance and strong opinions is often just plain offensive, and frankly not worth anyone's time. However, you are absolutely correct in saying that this is no reason to give up.

  45. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago

    Not a break, but maybe a toning down. The problem with the two-state model is that it requires walls. History shows that walls have finite lives. Sooner or later, they have to be breached, then pulled down.

  46. Paraglider profile image88
    Paragliderposted 7 years ago
    1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      There's much truth in Jeff Gates's article "Will Israel Fall in Five Years?"

      1. Make  Money profile image74
        Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        That web page is quite the find Paraglider.  Jeff Gates doesn't beat around the bush with his brutally honest writings.  He says a mouth full even before he says this.

  47. andromida profile image76
    andromidaposted 7 years ago

    Iran has no real friends in the middle east since they are Persian ,this makes feel Iran unsafe.But I think every one has full right to develop their own homeland security policy.

    1. VENUGOPAL SIVAGNA profile image60
      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Homeland security should not jump the required levels... it should not threaten other countries... that too a n-bomb in the hands of those who have a cruel historical background is dangerous to the world. In a sense, those bombs with America itself is a threat to world peace.

  48. rhamson profile image77
    rhamsonposted 7 years ago

    I think the ownership of a nuclear device gives the owner a voice to be heard in the grand scheme of things.  What is funny is that up until now we haven't wanted them to have a word otherwise.

    Hey if it is working for North Korea with a madman in charge why shouldn't it work for Iran?

  49. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 7 years ago

    Here's a different take on the story that a friend just sent me by Scott Ritter from Sept. 25, 2009
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … nspections


    Quite the different story altogether.

  50. foster parent profile image60
    foster parentposted 7 years ago

    Here is why  Iran is developing nuclear  weapon . in the prophecy of Islam , the Aqsa mosque will be captured and liberated twice . We have witnessed the first take over by the  crusaders and the first liberation by Saladin. The second capture was by the Zionist,  the second liberation will happen before the end of the world and it will be done by the Mehdi,
    the Iranian believe very strongly that the Mehdi will come from  Iran. but have no fear the Iranian will not use thier bomb first
    they will only use it for retaliation

 
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