Ok that subject line sure got your attention, huh? Well, I just read a study that said only 57% of Americans think global warming is really happening: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091022/ap_ … imate_poll
That's down 20 points from 3 years ago!!!
The first ever ship passed through the Arctic this year BECAUSE ALL THE ICE IS GONE: http://www.livescience.com/environment/ … ssing.html
It's unreal that people don't think that pollution and our destruction of the environment isn't doing anything to the planet.
Scientist say that there will be no ice in the Arctic during the summer months in less than 30 years. How unreal is that.
But the Earth isn't warming...no no. Global warming isn't real...no no.
When the 43% of you who live in NYC, Florida and California have houses underwater in the next 30 years, we'll see if you change your mind.
Global cooling was the boogy man 30 years ago, when that can be explained I will listen to the new chicken little's!
Very true. Not prepared to comment on the validity of global warming. However, your comment shows how much damage the publication of flawed science and the publication of unfounded alarmist statements can do.
Whenever you raise the alarm, you have to be careful to back up your science carefully, otherwise the public may disregard it after the disaster doesn't eventuate. Quite rightly the public safety authorities are reluctant to issue tsunami warnings until they are sure, based on the reasoning that people will disregard the warnings. Although that is opening a can of worms...
It is an interesting irony that the sunlight that is reaching the earth has diminished by as much as a third. So the climate is getting warmer, but at the same time there is less sun.
The sulphur from coal burning is blocking the sun and that isn't attracting much attention at all.
Oddly enough, those in northern Europe and the northern American states will soon think the opposite is happening. According to current models, they project that this melted ice will shift some major ocean currents causing mu ch harsher winters in these regions.
This is precisely the point I kept saying over the last year on forums about global warming.
It's not really the warming we should worry about it is the cooling that will do the damage.
Also, not saying that human impact has not done anything to speed up the process but we do know that it is a naturally occurring phenomenon.
I cannot say it is because of people that we are experiencing it in our lifetime because we don't have data that goes far back enough to really know for sure how often and how severe it is when it takes place.
Thinking into the future. After things are said and done at least we will have more observable and factual data to really under our planet better.
I heard once that 1 big volcanic explosion produces more co2 than all of humanity combined. In the past few years there has been (what seems like) more planetary activity going one with earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis and such.
I think we take it as a learning experience, heed the warnings when the professionals say lets fair on the safe side etc.. but besides that, it really don't take a genius to figure out that being wasteful in itself is enough to kill us anyways.
So whether you believe it is occurring or not, reduce, reuse, recycle, unplug appliances that are not in use etc... use some common sense.
it did snow, and stick in Houston just a few days back.... so, there ya go.
Well, I just saw in the news that the cabinet of the Maldives held their latest meeting under the sea all dressed up in diver equipment. Their islands will be the very first in the world to go underwater.
Hey if that happens will lose most our liberals, so whats the downside?
The thing is, the earth will survive this. Not sure humankind will, or if they even deserve to. Time will tell.
Green technologies are sure to make some money in the short run, however. In my business, we are gearing towards solar.
And if they're not? Will you change your mind?
People are blind when it comes to taking responsibility and facing up to difficult challenges. They may also be swayed by those who take an opposing side. Or like you say, "they could be stupid."
I imagine our children are being taught about global warming in school and some will take on the charge because they will inherit this earth as we leave it to them.
There are mixed emotions of Fear, Sadness and Apathy. People do what they feel is within their power to accomplish and watching the glaciers crashing down may seem like an impossible task to stop it from happening.
What do you think?
...And in any case: oil and coal are extremely dirty, and all that crap is going into your kids' lungs, and into your rivers, streams and lakes. Not to mention the enormous military, political, and diplomatic costs to the US of having to deal with such onerous people as the Saudis, and having to tackle such onerous people as the Iranian government -- none of which would be so important if it weren't for oil...
Oh, yes, and there's the fact that powering your factory or store costs you nothing if you have a solar- or wind-generator on site, and of course, that gas prices would not affect you if cars did not run on fossil fuels.
FORGET global warming -- getting rid of the fossil fuel economy WILL HELP YOU, PERIOD.
Only 43%? Well I suppose that isn't too shabby.
Tim Turner you sir are a sheep being led to slaughter, you are
as blind as you are ignorant and your arrogance is typical of most of your fellow progressive/ecco-terrorist's. You and all that have been sucked into this World Wide HOAX are really becoming acomplices in committing a crime against mankind and
someday this all will come down around your heads. This is
criminal and as such will become a HUGE debacle that the left
won't soon recover from. Gore is a CRIMINAL along with OBAMA,LISA JACKSON,CAROL BROWNER, and the list goes on and on!!!
I can only wish you the worst!!!
Your passionate hatred speaks of fanaticism and IT will destroy YOU!Why not try reasoning rather than Insulting?
"Your passionate hatred speaks of fanaticism and IT will destroy YOU!Why not try reasoning rather than Insulting?"
Ha,now this reply is just what makes my case.
1. Man made global warming is just that "fanaticism" and encompasses a deep seated "hatred" for Mankind and Capitalism and will "destroy" the very economic progress (I know you whackjobs love that word...progress) this country has worked so hard to achieve.
2. For you ecco-terroists to deny the HOAX that is M.M.G.W.(I think you can figure out that anachronism) or your so called "climate change" is "Insulting" to the intelligence of any "reasoning" common sense person.
So why don't you try being honest and look at the reality
of the science not the "consensus". Stop the blind worship and Idolatry of this suedo-religion. Gore and Obama ain't da Pope!!
Bravo ! I appreciate the raw emotion its nice to hear a heartbeat and one who has not been seduced by the lifeless Humanism that is engulfing us ! Keep believing !!! I stand up and aplaude you
Haha. Grammar fail.
I'll admit it's not fair to make fun of someone's grammar and spelling in a debate. But since you didn't provide any facts for me to counter, I'll just pick the low hanging fruit.
Anyway - all you doubters - where are your sources? Do you even know what Kevin Trenberth was talking about when he said "hide the decline"? Hint: He was not talking about global temperatures.
Think independently: examine the science for yourself.
And no, a science fiction book by Michael Crichton doesn't qualify as a source.
Don't need to debate hardcore science with you, neither
of us are qualified. Other people have done the leg work.
If you followed your own advice there grammar wiz and thought "independently" you wouldn't be sucked into this mass frenzy of
GREEN!! And no, nobody said that prologue was a real source for scientific conclusions just something to think about (you just ASSumed too much).
Now go find THE facts not the ones that are corrupted by political hack university eggheads!! This isn't a "real" scientific debate just a lame forum for green nuts to crack wise.
Well, since you claim to understand the science so well, I just assumed that you would have a multitude of facts and data sources at your fingertips, just sitting there ready to disprove AGW.
Sorry, my bad.
I have, actually, studied the science. I've been studying this for years. I've written a few hubs on it. You are welcome to come by and dispute the facts as I have presented them.
You've "been studying this for years" and still you haven't discovered the evidence of a cooling trend? And of course you
never consider any conclusion other than MMGW is real.
You're a perfect example of institutional propagandizing and programing that takes place in Universities....these bastions of Liberal mental cloning! You don't question the Holy Grail of MMGW....naaa...
you just recycle your brain and turn on MSNBC and get that tingle up you leg watching Mr.Maddow and Co.
How's that Hoax and Change workin for ya?
LOL. I don't watch MSNBC my friend, or any TV for that matter.
As for a cooling trend: there is none. Check the science yourself. If you have evidence to the contrary, please post a link here.
Last 10 years have been the warmest on record. The Arctic ice has shrunk dramatically in the past decade. Antarctic sea ice is also breaking up. Snow cover in the Northern hemisphere has continued to decline through the last decade. Spring is coming earlier. Etc.
There is no cooling trend.
What northern states have you seen? We get snowstorms as late as May or June where I live.
I'm not speaking from personal observation but from public data:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-Global-Warmi … Snow-Cover
It's also public data and direct observation that where I live, the winters are shorter and milder than in, say, Montana, the Dakotas, and Minnesota. Besides, it's ludicrous for someone from London or somewhere completely different telling me that spring is coming earlier where I live when I can see evidence to the contrary right out my window.
Valerie - not sure where you live, but have you been keeping detailed records over the past 3 decades of the first snowfall, average snow depth over the winter, first thaw, and last snow date? Because chances are there are weather stations in your backyard (relatively speaking) that are keeping these records and sending them off to the scientist in London or at Rutgers or the University of Illinois or NSIDC at Boulder, or to NOAA or any of the other organizations that monitor this stuff.
Those records are then compiled with records from thousands of other weather stations around the country and around the world to determine the overall averages.
I don't see how it's ludicrous to trust those sorts of long term records which are kept by professionals.
You were the one who said that spring is coming earlier in the northern states, not that spring is coming earlier on average all over the world. Now you're backpedaling.
While the northern states have seen and increase, other places have seen a decline.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/index.php … =apr#gsnow
http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/alps … 48714.html
not sure if you were in any of the videos listed, if not, statistics show that there's a 43% chance you are in a similar one:
I don't think its that people are dumb, its just that they are so cought up in the jonsey stuff , ya know, like if the neighbor washes their car then they gotta run out and wash theirs too , anyway they are so caught up in that stupid stuff that they are totally blid to whats really important , like the environment, uneducated really summs it up
Well to answer the the question of 'Is America Dumb?' you only have to look at the politicians that we have elected in the last decades for that answer.
What we need is another Hurricane Katrina then the public will be all ears.
I heard the best reason for this that does not include global warming the other day,
Sea levels are rising and ships are passing through the Arctic not because of global warming but because of Gods tears!
"ignorance is bliss" Some people want to beileve there isn't anything wrong..Sad. But true
That's impossible, haven't you heard that the world if flat?
Why is everyone fighting over the complex variable of global warming, with post-oil-age impending ? Warming / cooling - the weather that's a lot of math and apparently 43% of US are really crappy at even obvious math. So why not stick to the obvious ? THE EARTH IS RUNNING OUT OF OIL. We need to change how we consume non-renewable energy. Or suffer ( don't ask me how much, or when that's complex math again ) But if we do change, quit looking at the ground and shuffling our feet saying we feel helpless. (we are not helpless) The actions of every person do matter and together we can make a big difference - possibly even reduce or reverse the effects of global warming in the process of riding our dependence on crude oil .
And about the title when I read it - I thought you were talking about the 57% approval rating for the POTUS's 1st year http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/w … 141493.htm
I think with our work ethic plus how many hours and thought - Obama may be one of the smartest hard working presidents ever. - I'd bet my negative thousands, if there was a chart for everything Obama got done in one year, all the meetings and progress made into a chart, lined up side by side to previous presidents stats, his 57% approval rating would be seen as 43% of Americans are idiots.
I think your take on running out of oil is correct. Most Americans look at immediate gratification when it comes to the solution. Ignore the problem and find a more expediant measure to cope with it. Drill baby drill still echo's in my head from the last campaign. If we get Sarah it will ring true once more.
The problem with most of the solutions is that big oil still has a hand in it and will until every last drop of oil is extracted from the earth. Creeping gas prices keep happening to bolster profits while costs don't change and profits keep coming.
Look, when your from New England, every time someone says global warming we think about the SNOW that already fell last sunday.
Your from a place that doesn't even get snow. Have you seen it before?
And then on the flipside, here in Phoenix, we were at 100 degrees last weekend and we're almost in November.
We had 31 days of over 110+ degrees this summer compared to 18 last summer.
Just depends where you are from but when hundreds of miles of ice is melting, you know it's something bigger than just a few hot days.
It has happened many times before! Look a bright shiny object!
Absolutely. And contributing this to humanity effort despite of very little knowledge of how things work in this area is - umm - pretty arrogant
Sorry there is no conclusive evidence to date. in fact, the temperatures change in 20th century is highly correlated to the sheer size of humanity. A couple of nuclear wars will solve your problem
Yes, correlated to the sheer size of humanity. The bigger the population, the more energy we use and waste we produce. Thanks for supporting my argument
However, for the previous millions of years, there was no correlation. Go figure
Technology has advanced 1000% from all of humanity before 1900. Technology will advance another 100% from 2000 to 2100, according to studies.
Advancing technologies require manufacturing which contributes to global warming.
Man, you really think that a few million people living in stone huts would contribute to global warming?
I think you should change the title of the thread - 57% of americans are gullible
And I was talking about the SIZE only, no technology involved. You don't realize the only solution to your "problem" is to kill half the population, and sterilize another half.
LOL I am done with you on this thread, another water4gas. Stay deceived if you want to.
You think water for gas is a hoax? Really! Don't you know how much energy is in hydrogen!? God, who cares if it takes more energy to extract the hydrogen then you get out of the hydrogen itself.... you people are so close minded!
Hoax? LOL, it's a scam, people are making fortunes on it
The problem is most commercial hydrogen doesn't come from water - it comes from petroleum
The average number of days over 110+ was reported by channel 15 as 18 days compared to 22 last summer and 32 days in 2007. Our temps only hit a 100 degrees one day last weekend but I do have to say the weather has been quite unusual this past summer because we honestly did not ge much rain.
Here in Canada we have been getting a lot of snow for the past couple of years, but none of the usual cold, cold days we used to get. Our weather patterns have definitely changed...
Yep, same thing here in the Upper Midwest! Coldest October on record.
And if you are in VA, you start thinking about the string of unusually cold winters...
And In parts of Australia it is becoming seasonally hotter and dryer. We've just had our first heatwave - in spring!
And if you're in Alabama you're sitting at your PC freezing your a$$ off because it's 20 degrees outside!!!
Not to be a jerk but why do you think hundreds of miles of ice is melting then? Like what is causing it?
I don't think you're being a jerk - measurements show that our impact on the climate is less than a 10th of 1% compared to atmospheric water vapor from the oceans. And no, I don't have the link, but I could probably dig it up. Secondly, our wonderful politicians can get so much money, er I mean milage out of this - wha't's not to believe?
But the melting ice changes the flow of the ocean currents which creates havoc on our weather patterns. Something is melting the ice.
It's happened before, of that there is no doubt. The debate here isn't that climate change is or isn't happening, it's whether or not man kind is having a significant impact on it, and if so, how much of an impact.
Start with this one
The Yahoo story is long gone and the other was a junk documentary, whether this is natural or man caused is the real debate, I contend it is natural and is being used to make people rich and to increase the size of Government!
I dunno about the increased size of government, but it seems to have helped Al Gore out a lot (I'm super serial, guys... manbearpig!). I think it's a natural cycle of the earth myself... We might have some minute effect on it, but I don't think the ice caps would be melting any significant amount slower if we weren't here. The only reason I bought an economy car was gas prices, and boy do I miss my 5.7 liter stroker mustang .
Yeah, that's the better argument.
Obviously, ice ages have happened in the past and presumably warmer periods.
Something is melting the ice very fast.
I agree with that. For myself, I don't know that the ice is melting because I haven't seen it with my own eyes. Cynical? Maybe. All I have to do is listen to Al Gore and I become positive it's all a scam
Haha..we'll I'm not an Al Gore fan at all. The satellite images of the Arctic is just startling. To think that a ship cruised through the Arctic for the first time, without going through the Panama Canal is crazy.
Something is happening
Wait, you mean the arctic ocean? Ships have been passing the southern tip of South America since the days of Galleons... It's notorious for being the one of the most dangerous oceans in the world (biggest waves with the most rogue waves). What do you mean passing through it for the first time? Can you link this story? I'd like to see it...
The Arctic Ocean is up north. I"m not talking about the Antarctic and South America.
Ships from Europe used to have to go through the Panama Canal to get to Alaska, California, Russia or the Orient. Now, ships can just cut across the Arctic.
http://www.livescience.com/environment/ … ssing.html
Why are you complaining? The ships will get to their destination faster thus decreasing their carbon footprint
Russian ships go from Northern Europe to Alaska every summer since mid 20th century... What's the big deal?
Sorry, I know i said I was done, but I just could not stand it.
The big deal is Russia has to use the Panama Canal or Suez Canal, hundreds of miles south. Now, they can just cut across the Arctic.
I think I was not specific enough. They DID NOT use Panama or Suez.
Ok...how did a Russian ship get to England, genius?
Through the arctic ocean above Finland, but while very cold, is not iced over.
Thank you, thank you. I don;t think i deserve it. But yes, I am smart.
Through Baltic sea i guess, it's the easiest way.
On a second thought, and after consulting with a genius globe, I think Barents and Norwegian Seas do the job of connecting England to Nothern Sea Route better.
The infamous Murmansk Run of World War II fame: http://www.vrcurassow.com/2dvrc/maps/murmansk.html
They even were able to make that run from America during the War as well as England.
LOL Yeah, and that too.
That said, this is not the point though. Even if it was not this way, and Arctic navigation would have been become possible just this year and never before, it still does not prove that human technological activity is the cause.
The ice has been melting since the 1500's. If you look at history you will see that at one time the polar cap was much more extencive than it is today.
And, according to evolutionary scientists, the earth is currently in its 4th ice age. (An ice age being defined as having polar caps.) So things change. So what!?! I think you got your statistics backwards.
You are aware that millions of years ago the average temperature was about 20% higher than it is today, right? And there have been times where the average temperature has been much cooler than it is today, right? Google icebox Earth and geological epochs if you need a hint.
Ever hear about the Maunder minimum?
We may actually have a chance to study the effects of this theory very soon. The number of sunspots on the sun is set to go to about zero by 2012. If this theory is correct, we will not be faced with a warming event, but a cooling one. Wait, hasn't average temperatures gone down since Al "I invented the Internet" Gore made his movie?
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/07/al-g … ent-truth/
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1799/Glob … ient-Truth
According to the Maunder minimum, sunspot activity has been decreasing for some time now, and now we find that average temperatures are declining. Maybe 43% of Americans are smart and it's the other 57% that are dumb.
But how did they get that way? You become guillibe because of ignorance, ignorance comes from apathy, apathy from laziness, and laziness from selfishness. People need to WAKE UP!!!
Oh, and here's a little easter egg for everybody. Read the prologue to Jurasic Park. Trust me, it'll give you a little perspective.
Here's a link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2572842/Prolo … l-Crichton
I would agree with you if there was something conclusive other than conspiracy theories or haughty self acclamation of importance. The idea that we can't change the condition of the planet because of our miniscule relationship to it is not a scientific theory I would entertain.
While the Copenhagan Conference may not be the right vehicle to make the neccessary changes if needed, the science has to be varified either way to be sure if action is needed or not.
Well I read the prologue and am further convinced, M.M.G.W. is just an arrogant self-important fantasy that is built upon
greed,deception and crap science. Gore and a lot of Biz and people are
profiting from this "green" insanity and they WILL NOT be
taken down easy but WILL be kickin and screaming all the way to
prison or the firing squad which ever comes first!
Think how many business's and peoples lives have been ruined by this rabid enviro-maddness that is choking the life out of us.
This planet will survive mankind, but ALGORE.....I dunno.
M.M.G.W. THE GREAT HOAX!!
And sadly I'm part of that 43% too. Sigh.
I'd very much like to be part of the intelligent half but I just can't explain away the fact that scientists have supressed and manipulated global warming evidence, as emails sent by scientist at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit seem to indicate. Hackers broke into the computer a few weeks ago and brought this to light, you can read what they discovered at http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james … -warming/. Perhaps it was because of that very incident that 43% of the population suddenly became dumb.
But really, that 43% must be very dumb indeed because they just can't work out why, on Dr Michael Mann's graph (the one that conclusively 'proves' Global Warming) the entire Medieval Warming Period has been completely missed out. Or why thousands of scientists who insist Global Warming is all invention are being ousted. But such is ignorance.
I'm all for looking after the planet but we can do that even if we're told the truth. And without lining other people's pockets.
I think you mean 43% are dumb-struck by the 57% that global warming is happening. I'll still be skiing in the northeast 30 years from now.
Your local weather patterns having nothing to do with global warning in the short run. Read a little about it.
Ocean currents determine your local weather patterns so some places will get even colder weather while others will get hotter as the ice melts.
Geez. Way to sound ignorant.
I'm in the UK, and the weather patterns have definitely changed over the last 20 years or so. I don't completely buy into this being a man-made phenomena, but in a way it's immaterial, as we're so far along the road, that actually there's probably no turning back. Why are we even debating Climategate, when there are real humanitarian disasters just waiting to occur through flooding due to glacial melting? Why debate who said what in private e-mails, when the fish stocks are failing, and the industrial nations are continuing to pump pollution into our seas and rivers, and into the air we breathe. I'd really like to see some honest and intelligent debate about what can and should be done.
Amanda - this forum is a lost cause. The topic of survival pales into insignificance beside the seriously important matter of American right/left pugilism.
Nero. Fiddle. Rome. Fire. Boy. Wolf. Bollox.
I think you are right Paraglider and the American experience has fallen into a series of idealistic bickering and polarized thought control exercises designed to do nothing unless there is a clearly defined profit in it. The profit may be monetary or postured but profiteering nontheless. We are doomed to fail in our own pettiness.
TK I would have thought you have had enough of trolling around for an argument. But I guess under pettiness there is your picture.
You said you didn't want to insult me.
I think "doomed" is overdoing it a bit, don't you?
I did not want to misdirect on you about our poor educational system. If you could comprehend the whole paragraph that was written you would have understood the one sentence you edited out to cite.
No I don't think doomed is overdoing it. This country is in decline much like Rome. And it is funny that the great education system you stand up for can't seem to teach our children that those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Then I think you are being hysterical and not serious.
I think you are being foolish and acting dangerously indifferent in your approach.
I think you need to study a little as your history is a bit rusty.
Actually, I teach history and there's no rust.
Once again a scary scenario of you're teaching anything to a child with your perspectives. But I guess since you are an expert you therefore have subsequently proven that with your answer. And you are welcome with your predictable answer (retort).
For some, their answer depends on the weather that day, rather than extensive statistically-rigorous scientific study...probably because they don't really understand what "statistics" and "science" really mean.
Like the statistics and science that predicted global cooling? Normal people are not falling for this hoax again, and you won't get our money through cap and tax!
Ok first of all global warming can actually cause global cooling .The ice caps melt and then they can change the course of warm water currants leading to cooling in some areas,. The thing is that Global warming is happening; the reason things look like humbug to most people is because we are working with assumptions on how it will effect things. One theoretic model follows the next .We are on unchartered ground here, but just because the theories are not perfected yet does not mean nothing is happening. And those scares you are talking about where hyped by a media that thrives on the public’s need for doomsday prophecies. Because they do not understand what scientists are talking about they take a piece of a theory and blow it out of proportion or distort it .Once again this does not mean that the whole thing is not happening. It is! But we are dealing with many different pieces of data which all have effect on the bigger picture, it is just no one knows how .Erath core temp , versus , thinning atmosphere , versus ice caps melting and micro variations in magnetic fields and whatever else .
Being a little sceptic is just fine, but ignoring the elephant is downright stupid .Remember Galileo? They almost killed him for saying the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa .I mean your sun still revolves around you - more power to you! I mean in the end it the changes will not affect you too much who cares if your grandchildren and their children have to deal with our messes right?!
I think you give mankind way to much credit for being able to change his environment. We know global warming and cooling has happened many times throughout earth history. Without mans help.Case in point - the atomic testing at the bikini islands. We through the most destructive force known to man at it. Today mother nature has cleaned it up.
I hate to use wikipedia as a source but...
"Sought by explorers for centuries as a possible trade route, it was first navigated by Roald Amundsen in 1903–1906."
The first line in the second paragraph says, "the Arctic pack ice prevents regular marine shipping throughout most of the year, but CLIMATE CHANGE is reducing the pack ice."
Not nesso - climate change is something that happens naturally. Global warming is BAAAAAD!
!= means does not equal
Climate Change and Global Warming are not the same thing
maybe they are not just aware of it, but not dumb, or they dont like to know it, when tragedy strikes thats when people start to notice it, humans are born self centered...
i dont know if the USA signed the kyoto protocol already (limiting the emission of green house gases)--- all EU, and the rest of the world signed it already, I think the USA is pressuring CHINA to limit first the carbon it produced, the world is in debate right now if who among the countries are the main culprits of the global warming...
I rememebr BUSH wouldnt sign it before because American way of life is not in compromise, he said.....cant limit use of luxuries...
Hell, blame the US we get blamed for everything else.
well maybe because US is trying to project that they are the keeper of the world.. they are everywhere...
See? We are at fault, I'm ok with not giving whatever country you are in aid or military support, you don't like us be done with us!
am in texas, usa, dont have anything against the US...and I dont think they are the sole responsible for the global warming etc...I am just saying what I know and have read about
Well lucky us! I appreciate that you don't think the US is SOLE responsible party.
The opening statement that there ONE study found?
What is it with people today?
There was ONE study that showed "second hand" smoke was causing cancer....and now we have so many tax hikes on legal products, that even prevent adults from buy a legal product.
ONE study doesn't prove anything.
And, to top it- the study was done about what people think?
Duh, anyone can ask a survey question about someone's opinion, does that mean that's what they really think.
Almost no one is interested in taking a survey, even if it could better society, because most people don't approve of the methodology of surveys, because they can be made to look however there intended to look.
Unless you survey every single person in the Country? Results will be bias.
"It's unreal that people don't think that pollution and our destruction of the environment isn't doing anything to the planet."
I see you've been watching t.v. often explaining how we're the sole cause of global warming and that we need to change to green-energy so that all the big corporations can make money. I agree with you that we are warming this planet, but to what extent...?
"Scientist say that there will be no ice in the Arctic during the summer months in less than 30 years. How unreal is that"
Let's go back in time to when scientists said that there will be another ice age... what happened?, nothing. Oh, science has evolved so much you might say, but there are still millions of variables that we don't know about and predictions by scientists at the moment are unreliable.
What I don't understand is why the fact that some corporations and individuals are becoming filthy rich by promoting global warming and related subjects somehow invalidates the whole concept.
Plenty of corporations are becoming filthy rich by denying global warming too. One of them, Exxon Mobil, made the biggest quarterly profit in US history a few years ago. Why don't the skeptics who claim that Al Gore's investment in carbon offsets prove he's just spouting self-serving propaganda think the same of the fossil fuel industry, auto industry, agriculture industry, logging industry, and others that are opposed to meaningful action on global warming?
I'm not trying to be facetious, this genuinely baffles me.
He-he. Hi Kerry
Actually Exxon's business is not opposing the global warming, but selling oil products.
True, but that hasn't stopped them from spending tens of millions of dollars funding global warming deniers, so you could say they've made it a secondary business.
If some brilliant individuals have the initiative, foresight, backing to make the investment in new technology in order to combat global warming through Green Energy technologies, they are helping to Heal This Earth and deserve the rewards.
They are preserving limited and precious resources, creating new jobs and making the world a cleaner place to bring up our children. I applaud those who can change the fundamental way we think about a 'throw-away' society. Let's all reduce, reuse, and recycle.
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/earth-day- … more-10639
Gotta love those Earth Day predictions from years past. They didn't have a clue then and they don't have one now.
I'm still waiting for that food-population collision, personally.
Don't you think it's possible that some of those predictions were prevented because steps were taken to avoid them?
Well, say what you want. We took steps to lessen some of the pollution caused by cars, we took to recycling in a big way, we got into replanting trees and creating green space, the birth control pill became commonplace, steps were taken to bring back species near extinction, etc.
Of course some predictions went overboard...
Those weren't predictions, they were scare tactics. I'm all for recycling and green tech, when it makes sense. You don't help people by forcing them to use technology that increases costs. That hurts people, especially the poor. Green tech will mature on its own, let it be, or we risk another fiasco like the corn ethanol fiasco that didn't open a single biofuel plant, but did triple the cost of corn, and incidentally food prices. Oops.
Ledefensetech, when the price of corn goes up, do soda manufacturers stop using HFCS as a sweetener and go back to sugar? If not, why not? When exactly did the corn ethanol fiasco occur?
It was after the Energy Policy Act of 2005. It put in those moronic tax credits for people to build corn ethanol plants.
http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/Pubs/rp/P … tFeb09.pdf
It would depend on how long the sweetener was more expensive and if it were more expensive than the alternatives. Of course, since we have tariffs on sugar, all you'd have to do is increase the tariff on sugar and viola, HFCS is less expensive than sugar again. The increased costs get passed on to the consumer and all the corporatist cronies are happy, while the average American suffers.
Most of the fiasco came about when the price of oil, as it should have been expected to do, crashed. Oil prices got so high, Americans actually changed their driving habits. Suddenly, the high oil price that ethanol needed in order to be a viable alternative went away. So we blew billions on a short term solution to a long term problem. Government never knows better than the market when to adopt new technologies. Besides the corn ethanol thing was another sop to corn growers who already get too much federal money as it is.
It's not just the US, but other nations also that have problems when they try to force the market:
http://www.cban.ca/Resources/Topics/Agr … o-in-Burma
Take out biofuel and put in collective and there would be no difference between what the eco-nuts are doing and what Stalin and Mao did during their respective "collectivization" projects. Green is the new Red. Especially telling is the response of an actual, you know, farmer: "It will not be successful...They don't know anything about agriculture". Free markets leave the professionals, people who know what they're doing, to do the job, not some idiot in Washington or Napyidaw.
No. You don't go from something like this:
“Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind.”
to just fine. Whatever models they were using, if any, were flawed. Certainly their logic was.
My favorite has to be these two:
“Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half….”
• Life Magazine, January 1970
“At the present rate of nitrogen buildup, it’s only a matter of time before light will be filtered out of the atmosphere and none of our land will be usable.”
• Kenneth Watt, Ecologist
Indeed If Bush had have done the right thing 10 + years ago and signed the Kyoto Protocol many of the Coal fire power stations that are belching out toxic gases would by now have been replaced with clean energy production...
just so you know Bush was not in office 10+ years ago. that was Clinton with the Kyoto protocol
OK it was Bush that refused to Ratify it! I think Clinton actually agreed to it !
I guess you would blame Nixon for signing Earth Day into law
UW, it was a joke.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the Antarctic ice sheet is getting thicker.
Only 43%? I'd always assumed that the percentage was higher.
Sorry, UW. I don't have in my contacts! I didn't see your winkie. Hmmm...that sounds kinda dirty.
You have drawn a fine line, sir. (the thread starter)
I think your standard deviation needs to take into account the 30% of people that know that recycling and driving cars that get 10 more MPG aren't going to stop whatever may or may not happen anyway.
You cannot unplug your cell phone charger when you aren't using it? You can unplug your coffee maker, toaster etc... these things.
I am not saying you have to unplug your entertainment center so that you have to reset it everyday. Golly Misha!
Oh and check it out. I was watching myth buster and it is absolutely true that you can run a car on recycled vegetable oil.
The year without a summer. Due to Mt. Tambora, a general increase in vulcanism, and the Dalton minimum:
Actually my coffee maker is set up to start making coffee at certain time
Do I believe the earth is getting warmer? yes.
Do I believe its man made? I don't know.
Misha looks as if he could use a big pot of espresso right now!
::Imitating a John Madden voice::
You see, here's a guy who knows what he's talking about!
I saw that Al Gore video too and I felt pretty well-informed, myself.
Now, Mike, This Ted guy must think he's really hot stuff, coming out, spewing all his global warming innuendo. (trails off)
::/end John Madden voice::
Seriously, watch the great global warming swindle on youtube.
It's a 9 part series, look it up. Watch, learn.
Hey why just Americans.
I am an Australian and we're as dumb as anyone else!
Without my GPS even near home I am like a Xmas beetle on it's back!
I think the problem is man's but the US isn't near the problem China, India or Africa. Why don't you go there and get them on board and about the time you do we'll have cleaned up our act.
I have not been to Malaysia lately but it was so dirty all the streams were full of putrefying animals and household rubbish.
It always goes that way, enforcement on the modernized industrialized countries is an easy target. Don't get me wrong we need to keep our polluter's in check but the problem is probably the third world countries trying to keep up.
You feeling better?
They did not even have the awareness when I asked, but even if they did, they did not have the money to do much about it, although our Australian clean up campaign of volunteers does an amazing job once a year in Oz, maybe I can suggest it to them?
Not feeling better yet. but I do not seem to care too much, it will soon pass. Thank you for asking.
Mother Nature will take care of pollution in her own way in her own time. We will have little to say in the end.
This summer we had 27 reported tornadoes in southern Ontario. That's up from the average 11 per year, which even seems high to me seeing we'd never hear about tornadoes in Ontario when I was a kid.
National Geographics study says most polar bears will be gone by 2050. They are actually drowning because the polar sea ice is breaking up.
10 Things Global Warming Could Change Forever
1. Great Barrier Reef may be gone in 20 years
2. Amazon Rain Forest may turn into a desert
3. Sahara Desert may become green
4. Hurricanes may become more devastating than Katrina
5. London may disappear underwater by 2100
6. Animals may shrink
7. 2,000 Indonesian islands may disappear
8. Global warming may increase terrorism
9. The Alps may melt completely
10. The Maldives may be submerged
well of course america is populated by freaking morons, look at the state of our current predicament as proof
Climatic changes have been occuring on Earth for hundreds of millions of years. Are we contributing? Sure, but nature has the larger hand in the weather changes. Just my opinion.
not really. dude, do you realize that the earth has survived millions of years of meteors, volcano activities, several ice ages, even period when the surface was no different from the sun. Therefore, do you honestly think a mere few soda cans are hurting the planet?
Not sure what you mean. We are harming this planet; not sure to what extent, but nature is nature, and it has alot more power and experience than us hairless monkeys.
dude, i understand where your coming from. however, there is no scientific evidence to back up what your saying. in fact, scientists have already debunked the whole global warming theory because as it turns out, according to some research. scientists are discovering that the planet is merely shifting like it did in the past, when world used to only have one continent until it was broken up to the point where it is today.
then you get into the topic about the ozone layer diminishing, well sorry to break it to you. but science has proven that hole has not gotten any bigger at all since its discovery. in fact, from watching the science channel. some astronomers believe that hole has always been there, and thats how our planet breaths.
Dude, would you chill down fighting a straw man you just created? And if you stop dropping your cans around, it will make the planet cleaner, it does not take a scientist to figure
fighting? i didn't think i was fighting or getting mad at all. i was merely debating with the man. thats all. i thought that's what these forums are about. getting to know people and debating their points of view in a friendly manner.
or am i wrong, and im supposed to sit idly by and shut up?
LOL re-read his post, would you? You are preaching to the chore
so your saying you don't believe in science my good chum?
I don't believe in anything. If I find by chance that I believe in something, I destroy this belief as fast as I can.
hmmmm...thats an interesting point of view. however, i will quote a famous film line that pertains to this, "a man that believes in nothing, is nothing." i forgot what movie that came from but i think it was from that one movie with sean connery playing king arthur, but im not entirely sure though.
lol. i never said he was. lol. however, i remember sean connory saying that though when he played king arthur once. of course, from what i remember of it, the film was mostly inaccurate with its portrayal of arthur and the round table as it had lancelot getting his blessing before he dies. later, lancelot becomes the new king of camelot in the movie, which is bull if you ever read the original story.
He's probably been in half a dozen movies where he plays King Arthur or some such thing. I remember seeing this unbelievably bad 'Robin Hood' movie where Robin/Sean and his merry men were all standing around brushing their teeth with twigs. Movie magic.
No, that's only for when you disagree with The Obama
I think people are just not thinking about it because they are busy thinking about the economy.
43 percent can't be dumb
that is just rule of thumb
I think they are smarter
than grass or tomata
and possibly brighter than plumb
You know that book "6 degrees" - it tells graphically, degree by degree, exactly what huge changes will occur as the Earth warms up. I believe it - I know it may already be too late to reverse these changes. People who have not had climate change explained to them the way this book does aren't dumb, they are just ignorant about this. Which takes some of the pain away and puts it more in the realm of those of us who do "believe" the evidence have the evidence and can help others learn about it. Thank you for putting this subject up here. I'm amazed at what some of my friends who have not taken the time to read anything of what there is on the subject think "global warming" is. Possibly they've been watching Fox News! Oh the poverty of ignorance!
Just because ice is melting, or CO2 levels rise, or polar bears are all gone forever, (choose your crisis of the moment), doesn't mean man is causing it.
Nonetheless, somewhere around 50% of the people "believe" it's mankinds fault.
Not surprisingly, greater than 50% of people believe in angels, and UFO's.
It doesn't make it so. And given the actual content of the emails, for those who have open minds and choose to read them, clearly show the scientists deception; deception regarding peer review, deception regarding a consensus, and deception about the earth cooling since 1998 despite the fact the CO2 emissions had continued.
If you refuse to read the emails for yourself, yet still "believe" in global warming, you might as well believe in unicorns.
O.K. so we've got so much mercury in our fish, in all of our lakes, oceans and rivers, that one could almost insert a large mouth bass rectally and get a temperature reading if they had a fever. We've got acid rain and the sixties were over 40 years ago. We've got hundreds of thousands of factory chimney stacks belching carbon dioxide and other poisons into the air, while we keep cutting huge swaths of forest which are the main source to replenish the oxygen we are starving the world of. Add in rush hour times twice a day, times a gadzillion cars also pumping carbon dioxide and the freeways become gas chambers.
But hey the happy go lucky, everythings just Ducky, republicant's, with their rush limberger, cheese brained leader all say the world is rosy, and pollution is a fabrication. so don't worry about till they start dying off like flies. unless the flies die first, making it hard to tell. Then we can get to work???? It might be too late then though. Good forum.~~~MFB III
I'm tempted to respond that 43% of statistics are wrong, but, not having checked, I wonder if someone further up hasn't already written something similar
I like a comment I heard the other day.
If you were going to put your child on a bus tomorrow, and someone told you some scientists were predicting the bus was going to crash, but other scientists said it wouldn't, would you put your child on the bus?
OK, so the science may be wrong and it may never happen - and if you're an adult and don't have children, maybe you don't care because you'll be long gone if it does. But if it does happen, how would you feel to know you could have stopped the bus, but instead you just left your kids and grandkids to crash?
For those of you who believe in an afterlife, how will you feel if it does happen and you have to watch what your children have to live through?
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