jump to last post 1-6 of 6 discussions (39 posts)

Obama says 'now's the time' to pass health care

  1. fishskinfreak2008 profile image32
    fishskinfreak2008posted 7 years ago

    Yes, we agree, but unfortunately, it's still stuck in partisan gridlock on Capitol Hill

    1. profile image0
      Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Does anyone, even the lefties here believe that what is being proposed will actually make insurance cheaper without compromising access to care, or quality of care? How does this bill save us money? How does it control the rising costs? All it does is eliminate the profits from insurance companies and cut Medicare funding and payments to doctors. If this is really going to save us money, why isn't that savings one of Obama's guarantees?

      Why is there no reporting on the skyrocketing, out of control costs of the public insurance care in MA?? What about TN which nearly went bankrupt because of public health care? It's quite possible that if health care passes the costs might be quadruple (like MA) then what? Will Obama repeal the law? I doubt it!!

      So is passing this bill really about what's best for America, or is it about Obama showing how tough he is? What happened to listening and debate? What about accountability? If this doesn't work out then what? What's our recourse? How do we get our money back? Our freedom? All we get is to vote him out? Seems like a senseless risk if you ask me!

      I don't see Obama cleaning up the mess at all! Wouldn't it make sense to go slowly? What's the rush? He wants to collect the money now, (conveniently in 2010 after the mid term elections) but not provide any benefit until 2013 (coincidentally a year after the election)!
      Why not first make the cuts to Medicare and see if he can realize the 100 billion a year out of there first? Frankly I don't believe that he can, and I am SURE without any doubt I personally will be paying more for less as probably most people will, unless you're union or a government worker which will be exempt!

      1. profile image60
        C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well said. I have heard from obvious lefties on this very site that while they believe in universial health care, they don't believe anything proposed thus far is the answer......
        President Obama is pressed for time. If this doesn't get through soon, too many democrats(18) will be in campaign mode.....thats the rush. All from a guy who promised change in Washington.....

      2. livelonger profile image88
        livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, esp that the public option is back on the table. The cost reduction and availability of care expansion won't happen overnight, but they will happen.

      3. fishskinfreak2008 profile image32
        fishskinfreak2008posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        aYES, health care WILL INDEED be cheaper because previously, private health care insurers as a whole had no competition

        1. profile image0
          Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          They had no competition because the dems regulated the free market so there wouldn't be any. Remove that hindrance and you will see costs drop like a stone for everyone.

          1. livelonger profile image88
            livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, they would, because only the young and healthy would be able to be insured.

            1. profile image0
              Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              What are you talking about? Free market regulation is different from regulations about who gets covered. They're not the same and you can't just lump it all together.

              1. livelonger profile image88
                livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Of course you can. The ability of private insurers to deny coverage, even retroactively, is exactly one of the reasons the health insurance system is being reformed.

                1. profile image0
                  Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Medicare denies 6% of their claims! Do you really think that number will go down when it is cut 100 billion a year and you add 20 million more to the roles?

                  1. livelonger profile image88
                    livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this
                2. profile image0
                  Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No, you can't. That's why this so-called "reform" they want to push through so fast isn't reform at all. I guess the subtleties escape you.

  2. Flightkeeper profile image72
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    PoppaB, don't you realize those are not concerns in leftyland. As far as they are concerned the money comes from us, and the only thing they have to worry about is how to spend it.  Besides Barney Frank said "We are trying on every front to increase the role of government".

    1. profile image0
      Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes "increase the role of government"... that is the sole interest of government to perpetuate itself, to grow itself, and to steal power from the people and enrich themselves in the process! When will we learn? Government is the cancer, not the answer!

    2. manlypoetryman profile image66
      manlypoetrymanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      HHMMM...That sounds very familiar...Didn't they say that right before the last "Revolution"...Yeah...that's we're I heard that before...

  3. profile image0
    Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago

    The private insurers won't be able to compete with the government. Their profit margin is only 3-5% now! And government has NO intention of competing with insurers, the government wants to control it al, and under this plan they will!

    1. prettydarkhorse profile image63
      prettydarkhorseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      agree with this and as we can see in other european countries, as government take more hand in health of the people (welfare state), health care system becomes a fluke and there is poor delivery of health services.

      1. livelonger profile image88
        livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, France, Switzerland, and the Netherlands have *lousy* healthcare systems, and they pay so, so much more per capita on health care than the United States.

    2. livelonger profile image88
      livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If you can only afford to pay your CEO $200 million, then it really must be a rough market. Maybe the insurance companies should get into something more profitable, like "news" channels. Think of it as creative destruction.

  4. Flightkeeper profile image72
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    If they could eliminate the waste, why didn't they try to do that first?

    1. livelonger profile image88
      livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Good question. He was in office for a good month or so before kicking off health insurance reform as he promised.
      Instead, he's tried to rush this reform over the past 6 months.

      1. Jeffrey Neal profile image78
        Jeffrey Nealposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I love that the progressives keep trying to call this health insurance "reform" while completely ignoring that the public option is a foot-in-the-door attempt at an eventual takeover of the system.  Nobody cares really about reducing costs.  In fact that is counter to their goal.  Once the system fails to get better, and gets horribly worse, they are counting on a push for single payer making it all the way.  Viola! Mission Accomplished!

        1. profile image0
          Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It's really all about control. After all, why won't they publish it on the web and why do even they claim they don't have to read it?

          Simple. So when we're all screaming later about how our rights are all gone they can then claim "they didn't know" - like Pelosi is doing now. And then, does anyone here actually think they will repeal it?

  5. livelonger profile image88
    livelongerposted 7 years ago

    The CBO says the reform will pay for itself and then some. I guess that's overrun with liberal idealists these days, too?

    1. Jeffrey Neal profile image78
      Jeffrey Nealposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Got a recent link?

      1. livelonger profile image88
        livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this
        1. profile image0
          Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes only in government can you devise a program that is estimated to cost a trillion dollars and claim that you will make money from it! I will bet you here and now any amount, that whatever bill gets passed, the cost will be no less than 50% more of the estimate! I will bet you right now that they will not realize the saving from Medicare that they claim can be achieved!

          1. livelonger profile image88
            livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            These are not the Obama administration's figures. They're from the non-partisan CBO who actually crunch numbers and who enjoy the respect of both sides of the political aisle in Washington.

            1. profile image0
              Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Yes I know. They are made under certain assumptions, anayizing a bill that is esentially a moving target. Remember only a week or so ago the bill was estimated to caost 829 billion, now it's back up to a trillion! Name one government program that EVER came in on budget, besides the Hoover Dam, (that's the last time it ever happened!)

              1. livelonger profile image88
                livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I think those are different versions (House vs Senate, different features) being circulated in Congress.

                1. profile image0
                  Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No that was just differing versions of the Senate Baucus bill while the other committee bills are being merged into it. This bill may emerge from the senate with 3500 pages!!!

                  1. profile image0
                    Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Which they still won't read (or let us read)

          2. profile image0
            Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, the other day Harry Reid said that if they included tort reform in the bill it would "only" save $54 billion, so why bother? So I guess $81 billion is no different

          3. profile image60
            C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I would agree with that. I would bet that once this is approved...and I believe it will.  Four years later they will come back and say we "under estimated" It's only going to cost you $XXXX.XX per year more.....and it goes on and on and on and on....then when we are tired of paying more, they will ration...its a nightmare.

  6. Jeffrey Neal profile image78
    Jeffrey Nealposted 7 years ago

    From http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/106xx/doc106 … letter.pdf



    emphasis mine
    Sounds like significant potential for costing more to the people this is supposed to help in order to keep it "budget neutral" as well as a convenient CYA, but I'm no economist.



    again emphasis mine
    Does that mean that significant costs are passed on to the states in order to keep things "budget neutral"?

    1. profile image60
      C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yep, thats exactly what it means. Another unfunded/partially unfunded mandate. By the time its all said and done your taxes will be going up from every possible direction.

 
working