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To those who think American healthcare does not need reform

  1. egiv profile image75
    egivposted 7 years ago

    And also to those who claim liberals don't argue with statistics:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opini … ref=global

  2. profile image60
    C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago

    Have you looked at the "WHO" statistics?

  3. profile image0
    A Texanposted 7 years ago

    The New York Times? lol lol lol lol lol

    About as believable as Barack Hussein Obama

    1. egiv profile image75
      egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It's no Fox news, but hey, they try.

      1. profile image0
        A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No, they succeed in their lying!

        1. egiv profile image75
          egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Please point out one point in that article that is unattributed, or that you are able to prove a lie. That is, if you have read it. That is, if your reading level is up to that of the times.

          1. profile image0
            A Texanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No I didn't read it, I prefer unbiased news that is truthful, I know you want to delude yourself with nonsense but I don't! My reading level is beyond the Times, too bad yours isn't.

            1. skylinerj34 profile image61
              skylinerj34posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              He asked you to give facts that show that the statistics in article are lies. Instead you just decided to insult him and really didn't say anything to prove any point except that you are the one who's delusional. I will repeat his same request. Point out an independent statistical data that contradicts the ones that this article pointed out. And say something of value for once.

            2. Eaglekiwi profile image74
              Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Isnt Glenn Beck on your Christmas card list lol
              Oh man

  4. profile image0
    Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago

    The Republician plan was scored by the CBO today. It came in at 61 billion!

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Regulatory reforms in the small group and nongroup markets, including
      establishing AHPs and individual membership associations, and allowing
      states to establish interstate compacts with a unified regulatory structure;
       A State Innovations grant program to provide federal payments to states that
      achieve specified reductions in the number of uninsured individuals or in the
      premiums for small group or individually purchased policies; 1
       Federal funding for states to use for high-risk pools in the individual
      insurance market and reinsurance programs in the small group market; and
       Changes to health savings accounts (HSAs) to allow funds in them to be
      used to pay premiums under certain circumstances, to make net contributions
      to HSAs eligible for the saver’s credit, and to provide a 60-day grace period
      for medical expenses incurred prior to the establishment of an HSA.

      All double speak to throw the responsiblity on the individual states and worse yet to create more bureaucracy to manage and collect premiums.  It mandates nothing and creates another delay in providing services to those who need it.  Really,  another program that allows you to save tax free money for healthcare you can't possibly save enough for.  Rehashed McCain crap.

      1. profile image0
        Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Read the constitution. The federal government serves at the pleasure of the states and the people. The federal government does not have the authority to mandate ANYTHING, nor should it! The republican plan will do much to actually lower the costs of premiums and it will do so at a much lower cost!

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Once again you think that the well intended and underfunded state governments should jump at this.  It has no initiative other than creating a temporary patch that can't possibly be funded.  A whole lot of individual programs set up to achieve affordable healthcare and duplicating bureaucracy in states and have that somehow lower costs?  The federal government mandates plenty of things such as:
          DOT – Department of Transportation
          FAA – Airline Industry
          FTA – Transit
          RSPA – Pipeline
          FRA – Railroad
          USCG – Coast Guard/Merchant Marine
          FMCSA – Federal Motor Carriers.

          So don't tell me that this can't be legal because it is against the constitution. This is not just a bad idea, it is no idea.

          1. profile image0
            Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well of course you're wrong and we can go back and forth on this. The CBO says the Republician plan will lower the deficit. Admitedly it will not insure many more people BUT it doesn't FORCE people to do anything against their will, like the democrats do. The democrat plan forces ME to accept the government as my benefactor and health care decider! That's not constitutional, permissible, or desireable. The powers of Congress are clearly spelled out in Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution, they can do no more than what is there period.

            Now you and your like minded progressive friends might them to do more and you may all believe they should and that it is right and within their power to do so, but, you'd all be wrong at least legally speaking.

            I wonder why the democrats and other socialists minded folks don't just move to Cuba? You can all be well taken care of there by the government. I mean I can understand if you hate freedom, that's your choice but why force your philosophy on the rest of us?

            1. livelonger profile image89
              livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You really don't understand or respect the democratic process, do you? Maybe you would feel more comfortable in Cuba.

              1. profile image0
                Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Oh on the contrary I do! What I don't understand is how a political party that espouses government control over individuals can even exist let alone garner any power in the electorate! Perhaps if they were honest and changed their name to the communist party they wouldn't do so well.
                But that's what the democrats are all about isn't it? Rebranding. Pelosi doesn't want to call it the "Public" option because the public might think they are the ones paying for it so let's call it the "consumer" option. It's not the "war on terror" it's the "overseas contingent operation". It's not big pharma "lobbyists" that cut a secret back room deal on healthcare with Obama, it's "stakeholders".

                1. livelonger profile image89
                  livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  It seems your issue is not really with terminology but the fact that a majority of Americans voted for the Democratic platform - which was perfectly clear about including health care insurance reform - and that Obama and Congress are actually doing what they said they would do.

                  All I can really say is, "better luck next time."

                  1. profile image0
                    Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Just because the majority voted for democrats, and just because they ran on a platform that included heath care reform, that doesn't give them the power to ignore the constitution. Remember republican and democrat has taken an oath to uphold the constitution and I expect them to do so, which means they can NOT MANDATE citizens to buy ANYTHING!

              2. profile image60
                C.J. Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                He doesn't?  Practically all Republicans are against this. A LARGE number of Democrats, even liberal democrats are against this. It would appear that Congress doesn't understand the democratic process.  Its simple, read and understand the legislation, listen to the will of the people and vote accordingly.  Based on the numbers in congress you would think this health care bill would be a slam dunk....why hasn't this bill been passed already then?

            2. rhamson profile image76
              rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Would you be so kind as to point out where you got your information from against any Federal Mandates.

              Section. 8.

              The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

              To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

              To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

              To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

              To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

              To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

              To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

              To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

              To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

              To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

              To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

              To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

              To provide and maintain a Navy;

              To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

              To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

              To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

              To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

              To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


              "Admitedly it will not insure many more people"  Why entertain the exercise if this is the result?  Mind you that the person sponsoring this bill you promote thinks that cow farts are more damaging to the environment than cars and industry are.  Please label me some more as I think it really adds to your argument.

  5. TimTurner profile image80
    TimTurnerposted 7 years ago

    The healthcare plan is nothing like the universal healthcare of most countries.

    It's like comparing apples to oranges.  This new healthcare plan would be full of delays, waits and stuck in paperwork hell.

    I would think that our healthcare rank might even DECLINE in the ranks if this is passed.

    You can't compare universal healthcare to what this bill is.

    1. livelonger profile image89
      livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How do you know that?

      1. TimTurner profile image80
        TimTurnerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Because European healthcare is universal without deductibles or anything like that.  This new bill still has American buying medical insurance and leaves out 11 million people.

        Europeans don't have to pay for insurance at all.  Medical care is included with their taxes.

        There is no way we could ever have anything like that and to compare the two isn't possible.

        1. livelonger profile image89
          livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Europe isn't a country. There are many different systems.

          The Swiss system *does* require people to pick from among private insurers. They did have a public option for a long time, but recently phased it out after it did its job of "disciplining" (reining in costs) among the private insurers.

          The Swiss system also performs quite a bit better than our system and other European systems, and costs quite a bit less than ours.

          And anything even remotely approaching any of the other European-type systems wasn't going to be possible with the Republicans digging in their heels against any change to the status quo whatsoever. What's being discussed now is a compromise.

        2. egiv profile image75
          egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Obama can't propose universal healthcare now because Republicans would never have it. That's democracy (despite all the warnings we hear about communism and fascism). However, the plan is a step in the right direction.

          Just to let you know though, Europe isn't always heaven... I live in Italy and I'll just say that inefficiency is no foreign concept. And it's not free, taxes are higher here. I believe that healthcare is a human right that should be available to everyone and believe that the Italian system is superior to the American one because it takes this for granted. However, we have to adjust our system based on the USA, not some mythical utopia in Europe.

  6. profile image0
    Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago

    I think you answered your own question with that post from the constitution.

    If you want to now debate global warming too that's fine. Apparently PETA believes meat causes more co2 emissions and your buddy Al Gore also believes meat is a problem.

    Personally I believe Global Warming is yet another lie that this administration is using to further oppress the American people under the thumb of socialism....for our own good of course!! Because let's face it, we aren't smart enough to make wise choices for ourselves!

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "The federal government serves at the pleasure of the states and the people. The federal government does not have the authority to mandate ANYTHING, nor should it!" Where does it show me your point in the constitution?.  I guess you are reading something into it.

      I guess cow farts is the answer.  Geesh. When confronted with the facts you have a tendency to make things up. You really should get off your soap box and catch up on current events.

      1. profile image0
        Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't know what your asking! The powers that congress has you posted. That's their powers and those powers are granted TO congress BY the states. Anything power NOT granted to the federal government belongs to the states OR the people. Do you see anything that says Congress can mandate citizens to buy insurance? I don't!

        1. Michael Willis profile image77
          Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Anything power NOT granted to the federal government belongs to the states OR the people. Do you see anything that says Congress can mandate citizens to buy insurance? I don't!
          I am against any kind of law that forces anyone to have to buy insurance. This will cause more problems with higher rate increases.
          And as far as the constitution...for some reason the Congress believes they are doing the part of the Constitution that is For The People!
          People have pushed for Congress to "force everyone to pay there own health bills." "Don't allow my tax dollars to pay for poor people's bills."
          I make no excuses for those in financial distress, either by choice or unpreventable situations, But...the ones that screamed the loudest about tax dollar waste on health care and free government programs (and I did my part in this also)set this mess in motion. We were heard and now have allowed Congress to take this issue of Health Insurance and turn it into what it is today. Congress and the Health Industry has used us for their own agenda!
          The end result I fear is the Health and Insurance Industry will come out as the "Big Bread Winner" when all is said and done. All of us will pay higher taxes and health bills.
          I hope I will be proven wrong on this, but can see this as a possibility with ALL the health reform bills out there, whether Democrat or Republican. They will cover their butts! They will receive compensation for whichever way they vote.

          1. livelonger profile image89
            livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No it doesn't. It forces people who don't buy insurance now, most of whom are relatively young and healthy, to start paying into a plan that they will eventually need to draw from. It should lower premiums, not raise them, by lowering the average per capita health costs of those covered.

            1. Michael Willis profile image77
              Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "Should" is the keyword to what you are saying. That same claim was made in Arkansas when it became law everyone had to purchase Auto Insurance. It is now way higher and I know mine rises every premium renewal. There will be excuses made by the Industry to raise rates.

              1. rhamson profile image76
                rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Doing nothing addresses nothing.

                1. Michael Willis profile image77
                  Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Agreed...but do what really helps, go after price gouging of services, Health Industry spending waste and refusing coverages. Hit the top  people of the Indusrty. Fix it there first and see how it can lower costs.

                  1. rhamson profile image76
                    rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    What you say sounds good and makes sense.  But would it not require government intervention to accomplish this?  And if so is the control gained from the exercise that of government control anyway?  The other thing that adds to the mess is that if you remove all the fat from the private insurance providers that subvert these practices with more expense,  where will the profit for them exist if not in all the mismanagement?  A clean break is needed and sure mismanagement will occur as with any bureaucratic system. But the gain will be better for us in the long run.

            2. rhamson profile image76
              rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you.  Same premise as Social Security.

        2. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          How are we required to pay Social Security taxes or Federal Medicare or Federal Unemployment.  Are these optional?  You are reading something that is not there.  While it does not state that they can it also does not state that they can't.  Semantics.

          If you want to split hairs then maybe you should chew on this for awhile."The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

        3. skylinerj34 profile image61
          skylinerj34posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Why do we always fall into this unproductive bickering between Republican and Democrat. Aren't we all Americans. I'm not very happy about the current public option they're trying to pass but if you want my real opinion about a real public option: here it is.

          The Healthcare Debate



          “It is socialism”: That’s what the conservatives, the fanatics scream when they hear the term “Public Option”.  It is Government run healthcare. They tell us that government run healthcare is healthcare run by bureaucrats who would decided what kind of treatment you would get and when. The choice would no longer be yours or your doctor’s.  We’ve seen this before: they capitalize on people’s fears for them to act against their own self interest. They used the same tactics to get us into Iraq. Are we going to let them use the same tactics for us to allow 40, 000 Americans to die of treatable diseases due to no or insufficient insurance? What kind of people are we? More people go into bankruptcy due to medical costs than any other reason. And I’m not just talking about people that are uninsured.



          Well if that’s what you’re afraid of; let me clear it up for you. There’s already an institution that decides what kind of treatment you get and when. There’s already an institution that can comes between you and your doctor. It’s called the Insurance industry. By the way this same institution raised your premiums by twice the amount and lowered your benefits in the last 10 years. And guest what? This same institution tries to find all the reasons or pre existing conditions for you not to get a treatment you desperately need. So what are you afraid of? That a public option would force this institution to lower their premium; give help to people that really need it and; prevent them from excluding people for pre existing conditions? I believe there could be really one legitimate concern when it comes to the public option: the treasury and taxes. We now have one of the largest deficits this country has ever known. And it was due to 8 years of unethical and in some cases criminal behavior by an unscrupulous administration. Well let me clear up something for you. In the path we are on right now; in the next 10 years, we will likely be paying twice as much in premiums, deductibles and have less coverage to show for it. So would rather have maybe a 5 percent increase on your current taxes and pay nothing for insurance premiums or pay 10 times that 5 percent increase in premiums to pour more billions into the pockets of already billionaire CEOs. Really! This is your fear? Have the FBI already showed up at your house to ask you to give them all your records so they can have an accurate account of your daily life? We are afraid to loose our freedom we say! Yet we allowed the past administration to suspend Habeas Corpus so they can supposedly protect us. I wonder if people really think about the things that they say sometimes or are they just animated by hatred, misplaced passion about things they don’t understand. Next time you try to argue against the public option; try not to use the words: lefties, socialist, liberal and maybe I'll begin to think that you have a logical, plausible argument against it and I’ll pay attention. In the meanwhile do not argue using my fears but my hopes and dreams.

          1. rhamson profile image76
            rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            A lot of truth in what you say.  Unfortunately with it you too will be labeled.  I have been labeled continually and make it my special effort to not marginalize the argument with political labels but to no avail.  They keep on creeping in and people will be who they are regardless.

            I wish we could get on with it and come together and figure this out.  Just think, Canada and Europe have already done it, and guess what, it works!

          2. egiv profile image75
            egivposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Damn, you might as well make that a full hub!

  7. Niteriter profile image79
    Niteriterposted 7 years ago

    What does all this mean to the people who are dying because the Insurance Industry won't pay for their medical care?

  8. Sexy jonty profile image60
    Sexy jontyposted 7 years ago

    I do agree in that matter

  9. arthriticknee profile image86
    arthritickneeposted 7 years ago

    Those living outside the US struggle to understand what it is about universal healthcare that is so frightening.
    What exactly is it that makes it such a horrible idea when the rest of the world is getting on just fine with it?

    Does providing health care to low income citizens make you a communist or just a civilized country?

    History has shown that the larger the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" the more unstable a society becomes. I don't see how increasing social instability will do you any favors in the long run.

    The world is watching and the general sentiment remains that they are not impressed.

    1. livelonger profile image89
      livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Isn't it a little strange that "the world" is watching a wholly internal matter in the U.S.?

      1. Michael Willis profile image77
        Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well, the U.S. which I am a part of, is thought of as a World Leading Nation and we, the U.S. has brought others into this by using examples of other world health care programs to tear down or promote a universal health care system. And they do have a right to observe and make comments. We can choose whether to listen or not.
        If we didn't want others involved, then we should have never used them as examples.

        1. livelonger profile image89
          livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          What?!
          First, no one's arguing that no one has a right to observe and make comments about the U.S. (or that we're somehow incapable of knowing what to listen to). I just find it strange that people would take the time and energy to worry about another country's internal policy matters when they likely have plenty to worry about on their own.
          Second, our analysis of other countries' health care systems as we formulate our own does not require their citizens' feedback on our current system. If you think it does, then you're going to have to explain exactly how.

          1. Michael Willis profile image77
            Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            First...my statement was a fact to what I read into your comment, not an attack of any kind on you. Sorry if you took it that way.
            Second...And yes the outside of the U.S. commenters do have a right to voice their opinions on what is Said or written about their health care system. Our media and those posting here have brought them into this with agendas to tear their systems apart or brag on how well it serves. I know if someone wrote about any system in the US and I found it negative against the US, I would speak up on it.  Wouldn't you?

            1. livelonger profile image89
              livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't feel attacked; I was just utterly perplexed by your reply.

              I have to say though that I'm still having difficulty understanding where you're coming from. I think anyone can criticize anything else. But non-Americans having strong opinions about our health care reform debate is like we Americans having strong opinions about the Laotian educational system. Why would we care? We can have those opinions, but isn't our attention better served focusing on our *own* educational and other problems?

              1. Michael Willis profile image77
                Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Ok, if you are saying WE (US) should be more concerned, then yes! We definately should be more concerned about what we do than what others do or have done. As for "others" (non-US), I see their concern more about what our media and persons have been saying about them. I have heard horror stories and read them in the US media about Canada, Britian, etc. Then on another page I hear or read how great their system is. So I can see why they would be concerned. Maybe they are also looking to see if We (US) can come up with a plan that they would prefer. Maybe they could provide info that could benefit us in what is going on.

                1. livelonger profile image89
                  livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  OK - looks like we're on the same page. smile

                  I've lived overseas, in 3 countries, and always found it strange when non-Americans pay more attention to the goings on in the US over what's happening in their country. It's like people who obsess over the travails of celebrities but who can't keep their own lives together.

                  1. Michael Willis profile image77
                    Michael Willisposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    True. I gotta get supper. Nice discussing this with you.

                  2. tksensei profile image59
                    tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    That's a good way to put it. Obama is the current Britney, and our economy and security is the baby on his lap as he drives leftward waaaaay over the speed limit.

      2. rhamson profile image76
        rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think it is.  I think it is encouraging as it speaks to our relevance and position in the world.  Should they critisize us and make suggestions, absolutely, because have we become so arrogant that we cannot separate our ideas from our pride?

  10. jiberish profile image78
    jiberishposted 7 years ago

    Pelosi no longer wants to put the final bill on line before the vote. If anyone is still interested in the new death bill this is a great place to listen to a discussion:

    http://gop.com/index.php/12truths/

    1. profile image0
      Madame Xposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks jib smile

    2. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this
    3. skylinerj34 profile image61
      skylinerj34posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Independent facts please. It's like asking the Insurance Industry what they think about the public option?

      1. profile image0
        Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The insurance industry has weighed in an they have warned unless the government gets  EVERYBODY to buy insurance rates will go up considerably more than anticipated.

        Just like the credit card companies warned that if the bill to reform that industry was passed the cost of credit would be higher and there would be less access.

        Surprise! The cost of credit is higher and harder to get!

        I'd listen to what the republicans are saying and then you could ask your democrat representatives to explain why it isn't so.

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this
          1. skylinerj34 profile image61
            skylinerj34posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I guest I'm the one who posted a link to a democrat site to prove a point. I wouldn't go to a republican nor would I go to democrat site to look for facts. They all have their own agenda and would unfortunately only highlight facts that proves their point. And that's why I prefer independent and non profit sites because they have nothing to gain from pushing any agenda except for the ideas that they fight for.

  11. jiberish profile image78
    jiberishposted 7 years ago

    Anyone who thinks that passing bill behind closed doors is constitutional really doesn't understand what this country was founded on.  Here is a link that will explain the different bill, it should scare you:

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id … p;catnum=3

  12. johnb0127 profile image77
    johnb0127posted 7 years ago

    NOBamaCare

  13. profile image0
    zampanoposted 7 years ago

    Anyway everybody was SHOCKED in europe, watching a TV coverage about an american hospital where unfortunated people were seeking care.

    There was a lottery system that drew out the lucky one to receive treatment.
    Never saw nothing so degrading.
    does it need reform...

  14. starme77 profile image87
    starme77posted 7 years ago

    Read my Hubon healthcare reform ... this package being proposed is horendous , I really don't think there is an arguement on weather or not healthcare does need reform, because everyone knows somethng needs to change , but this bill up for debate now will take away too many freedoms , way too many , it really is scary

    1. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I agree there are a lot of problems with the current bill but void of any plausible help from the other side this is all we have to go on.  The answer that congress is getting from the opposition is no.  That's it, no.  What can you do with that?

      1. profile image0
        Poppa Bluesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Don't you ever get tired of parroting the party line? I posted yesterday the republican bill with all of the amendment they have been trying to get the democrats to consider, but the democrats have shut them out and not allowed them to bring anything up for debate! This has been the case from day one and Obama has been no better!

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It is because they offer no real solution.  They propose more shifting of responsibility rather than concrete change.  I addressed this yesterday.

  15. livelonger profile image89
    livelongerposted 7 years ago

    Did I say these were solely conservative ideas?

    I said that conservatives were only too happy to suspend their respect of the Constitution when it placated their paranoias. That they shared these paranoias with many Democrats too is besides the point.

    Your Clinton quote makes it clear (especially in light of his current position) that the Democrats can be spineless liars when it's politically expedient for them to be so.

  16. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 7 years ago
    1. livelonger profile image89
      livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, and?

      Frank doesn't shy away from pointing out the stupidity of people like Bachmann. And if you say "keep your goddamn government hands off my Medicare," then yes, a dining room table is probably more intelligent than you are.

      I remember he said something disparaging about Marilyn Musgrove too. He was right; she is a complete moron.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Bachman takes the Looney Tunes prize in the House. Barney Frank may be the smartest representative in the House.

        In 1993, Bachmann and other parents in Stillwater, Minnesota opened New Heights Charter School. The oversight of New Heights soon encountered problems when a group of concerned parents and the school district questioned if the insertion of Christianity into the school's curriculum amounted to using public tax money to fund a religious school.[7] One such parent, Denise Stephens, a longtime Republican, charged the board of directors of the school (which included Bachmann) with trying to set up classes on Creationism and advocating that "something called '12 Christian principles' be taught, very much like the 10 Commandments."[

        Bachmann contributed to the "death panel" controversy when she read from a July 24 article written by Betsy McCaughey from the floor of the House. Sarah Palin said that her "death panel" remark was inspired by what she called the "Orwellian" opinions of Ezekiel Emanuel as described by Bachmann,

        Bachmann has said that people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender suffer from "sexual dysfunction" and "sexual identity disorders."[95] Appearing on the radio program Prophetic View In The News to promote her 2004 state capitol rally against same-sex marriage, Bachmann said that "God calls us to fall on our faces and our knees and cry out to Him and confess our sins. And I would just ask your listeners to do that now. Cry out to a Holy God."[94]

  17. rebekahELLE profile image92
    rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago

    Victory!

    1. profile image0
      Ghost32posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Depends on your viewpoint.  I'd say something like, "Disaster...."

      The title of the thread is based on a mistaken presumption or two, though.  I'm as strongly against the current bill as anyone else on the planet, but not because I believe we don't need reform.  Instead, it's because I believe we don't need Uncle Sam in the health care business, and I REALLY believe we don't need somebody threatening to fine me if I don't buy insurance.  I've paid my own way (no ER freebies frequently quoted by the force-'em-to-buy crowd, either, thank you) for most of my 66 years.

      In other words, "Mommy, I can do it MYSELF!  Take your Nanny State back and stuff it up Mary Poppins' parasol!!"

  18. profile image0
    A Texanposted 7 years ago

    "Barney Frank may be the smartest representative in the House."
    roll Do you really believe this stuff or do you just write it to get a laugh? If its for laughs then you are cracking me up.

    1. profile image0
      Ghost32posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Texan, we could WISH it was for laughs.

  19. Ralph Deeds profile image69
    Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago

    Here's a link to a chart showing the Democrats who voted against the House health care bill passed yesterday:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009 … -vote.html

    1. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Very interesting list Ralph. Do you have a data source that shows percentage of population uninsured people by Congressional District. I don't really need it, but would find it very interesting.

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
        prettydarkhorseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        i dont think theres data on this one, unless you generate it from the insurance companies which is not possible

  20. garynew profile image61
    garynewposted 7 years ago

    I don't disagree that the health care system needs major overhaul, but the way Congress and this administration are going about it is simply sickening.

 
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