according to the barackstar, "new attacks are being plotted as" he speaks. sounding more and more like bush every day. opinions on tonite's speech?
Not watching it, its scares me to think what he'll do...heard he is deploying more to Afghanistan this month.
Don't know, didn't hear it. Didn't want to...I think we should just end the wars and bring our troops home.
I thought it was a bit weak, he tried to talk tough, but it was kinda of like watching a flower child fumbling to load a machine gun.
I did like the time frame for Afgan responsiblity though
It seems that as president one is required to deal with reality (eventually!) in order to try and keep the country safe. Ignoring dangers is so much easier on the campaign trail.
yes, that was quite surprising ... all of a sudden we're in danger again? can we spell j-u-s-t-i-f-i-c-a-t-i-o-n?
i guess i still don't understand how this surge is going to eliminate the threat of terrorism, i mean, aren't these so-called terrorists everywhere?
p.s. i can disagree with the President and still support our troops, which i do, all the way. they are sacrificing everything.
No matter what, the powers that be will always try to justify their actions. Obama is not alone in this. It is a sad refrain.
To rouse the sleeping. Rattle the sabre, thump the chest? Swing public opinion in the absence of another Twin Towers incident.
the change that many hoped for and that all were promised has turned into nothing more than a pipe dream. not since kennedy were expectations so high as they were a mere 10 months ago. never have i seen someone with such an opportunity squander the entire cause. daily, certainly weekly, he backtracks and wiggles.
the charm is gone.
Don't know. I still believe in him but all in all not in Washington politicians. Safe Dennis Kucinich. I'm giving him a few more months.
Finally, a voice of reason here. Folks, as much as we would like Super Barack to save the world in a day, it just doesn't work that way. I know the expectations are high stemming from his campaign, but give the man a chance to do his job, I think you'll be happy with the end result.
With regards to the war, he didn't make a rash decision, he thought this through, and he obviously sees something that we don't. Let the President be the president, and let's support our troops.
Yes! Support your troops killing more innocent people, and getting mentally deranged in the process.
Really?! That's the mission of the war? That's the reason why all those brave men and women have risked and lost their lives? To kill innocent people? So the Taliban and Al Qaida are innocent now? I can see where your heart is, but that's not a fair painting of this issue.
Not all people dying in wars are taliban or Al qaida.
i was talking of you Americans as well !
How can you be so childish ??
and i'm being kind with you
I should have used another word !!
go read crossing the rubicon if you want to understand the "mission of the war." try keeping emotion and high drama out of the discussion.
If you would take your own advice- oh and not speek, you would be likable.
This coming from the man who stated "that it's high time that America gets the ass-kicking it deserves?!" Uh, yeah, thanks for the advice, but no thanks.
as suggested, go read crossing the rubicon. after that, spend some time with any of the native americans of this country. if you need specifics, go to the agriculturally rich region of the four corners, you know, where many of the "reservations" are. spend some time with those folks, if you can stomach the rampant alcoholism and squalid living conditions that our government has bestowed upon them. then, after you've spent a few weeks with them, ask them how they feel about america's "colonial" period of the 1700's.
after that, go read american dynasty. then we can have an intelligent discussion.
Does he have to do all that in order? Is there a checklist or something you have to sign off on before the intelligent discussion officially begins?
any discussion with you, tk, will not include the word intelligent. i think everyone on this site is well aware of that fact.
LOL..I'm actually headed out to Barnes & Noble to see if I can get the Cliff Notes versions of both books in an attempt to speed the process. Spending time at a reservation may prove to be a little tough however.
Well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Wouldn't want to upset him. Personally, I think you're a bit overqualified for 'intelligent' discussion with some here.
I appreciate that Tk, but no not at all, this has actually been a fun discussion and in all seriousness I am going to read the books he recommended.
Great reply back to such dribblings, HS...Just make sure and do what he tells you to do before you answer him...at his level...Oh brother... me thinks some think they are THE "know-it-alls"
That was a good, reasonable post. Well said.
Not all people dying in wars are taliban or Al qaida.
i was talking of you Americans as well !
It seems you don't care.
You're another puppet of The 'American Way of Live '
I'm lucky I have another ways in life !
I'm not going to argue with you. Obviously you have your perspective of America and its policies and I have mine. But believe me, I'm no puppet. I stand by one credence, "My country right or wrong. If it's right, keep it right, if it's wrong, make it right." And as a former military man, we didn't have a say in the mission, we just had to get the job done. That's why I support the troops. Not the policy, but the men and women who are doing their jobs.
He's been in there a year, it would be nice to see something SOON.
I agree with that. The hope & change was all very nebulous. When pressed during the campaign it really came down to the warm fuzzies his charisma gave everyone, PLUS he was NOT Bush.
IMHO, he has proven himself to be nothing more than a run of the mill politician. Not the transformative & transcendent figure he & his handlers packaged & sold to the American electorate.
There is something incredibly political in his timeline. We're surging in for eighteen months then pulling out in the summer of 2011 with all the troops home by 2012, which holy moly, happens to be a presidential election year when he will be seeking a second term.
then the world started giving nobel peace prizes for theatrics. sigh.
They gave him a peace prize for changing the diplomatic tone. It was a rebuke of GWB.
very true. it was awarded on the feeling of inspiration he helped create prior to 02.01.09. still, after tonite's speech, emotions must be running high right about now with members of the nobel peace prize committee.
yeah, that capped with his troubles on guantanamo and the fact that those detainees are ending up in worse places than that facility(he wont close it). Or maybe the fact that he renewed the "patriot act" that he so strongly opposed. No, I know what it is- he took the troops out of Iraq.
It was also awarded to "influence" an extremely influential world leader. I think its wrong for a sitting President/PM/Cabinate Member etc to accept such an award. It's dangerously close to crossing the line of "Conflict of Interest".
I disagree, BD. He was pretty much saying the same thing before he was elected, calling Bush out for choosing a conflict with Iraq when Afghanistan was the real war we should have been concentrating on.
Plus, we were and are already there, folks. He's calling for an escalation now, probably in a long term/short term analysis to win and remove an American presence from the country as soon as possible.
War is never pretty, but this is a move of a pragmatic nature, given all the variables. Anyone have another proposal? I have one: nobody would go for it. Instate a gas tax, and make a plan to absolutely eliminate the need for foreign oil within 2 years. Suck it up, people...just like the Danish did.
OK, so we lazy Americans won't do that. There would be a squawk on that heard loud and deep from across a platform of voters, Republican and Democrats alike. Hence, Obama talking about our country's "prosperity." Not sure he has another choice?
i'll go along with that gas tax for certain, also one on procreation (take away the tax deductions on that one), and a divorce tax as well. i digress.
the problem with afghanistan is that the people we are fighting now were armed by, yes, us. our newest most current enemy were previously cia/isi assets.
Well, I'm glad we didn't create a third war at least.
Israel and Iran are about to kick that one off.
I highly doubt it. Iran is interested in Iran's interest alone. Personally, I think their interest would have to be provoked. Israel doesn't have a war with Iran.
within 6 months we will see an air strike. will they try to retaliate determines if we see a war or not. US seems to think it will happen, that's why our missile defence systems are parked in Israel right now.
Also note how quiet the Israelies are right now. Iran announces, Israel pounces.
Well, I can't claim to be Middle Eastern but I know the Middle Eastern mentality having associations with them, including Persians, and I believe they won't do anything against their personal interest. They are a profit motivated society (a bit like the ferengi). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
Hahaha. You'd have some mad 'kid' people on your hands, who believe they should all have tax breaks.
Yep. A real mess. And I know we use small countries in such a way on a personal level: I worked with the Hmong (Laotian hill people who were trained the same way), and if you saw the other thread where I blathered on about Georgia and Sakashvilli...
"Anyone have another proposal? I have one: nobody would go for it. Instate a gas tax, and make a plan to absolutely eliminate the need for foreign oil within 2 years. Suck it up, people...just like the Danish did."
While I wouldn't agree with another gas tax. I don't think most Americans truely see the link between failed foriegn policy and foriegn oil dependency. Your right, until America is energy independent this "war" problem will persist.
It is refreshing to see someone addressing the heart of the issue. Americas addiction to foreign oil is and always will be at the center of the issue. It is like the 800 pound gorilla no one talks about.
Politicians avoid it like the plague and Big Oil pays for their silence. Keep America on Big Oils t%t and don't let up while all the minions and common folk buy the terror war.
This is one of the greatest hoaxes played on us and we continue with this moral quest to wipe out terrorism in the world. Hell we are still catching Nazis 60 plus years later. How are we going to erradicate this vermin any easier.
If we had an alternative fuel (which we do by the way and is non-poluting) that would power our existing technology and pulled out of the middle east, including Israel, we could in effect let the place ignite itself and who would care.
I take it you support increased research and exploitation of resources in our own territory that we could be taking advantage of? Clean coal? Nuclear? Off shore drilling, etc.?
I hope you're not one of those who somehow thinks we can flip a switch and run the country on windmills starting tomorrow.
There is no flip of the switch to fix any of it. There is technology that has been developed to run our cars and machinery on hydrogen from water. The military and NASA have been working on it but it is not for us as Big Oil has conveniently blocked its introduction.
If Big Oil could begin selling us water then you might get the chance to use it.
Clean coal, nuclear, off shore drilling help only to perpetuate our nead for oil and do nothing to wean us off of it.
So, we could just start using that tomorrow? Or do the Flintstone thing for a few decades until we're all set for energy-topia?
Your sarcasm is always well noted as I see by others in this string.
I can see you have doubts based on your lack of expertise in this area and have bought into the right wings answer of no change just keep paying Big Oil. No sense trying to enlighten someone who obviously has their mind set in the past. I was hoping more from you but I guess that is beyond my expectations. Sometimes you exibit some clarity on the issues.
I notice a liberal tendency to want to believe anything they've ever read is some great secret and this advanced knowledge is one (but only one) thing that makes them superior to poor common folk who languish in desperate ignorance.
Hydrogen fuel cells are not recently declassified secrets.
I've actually had someone oh-so-dramatically put the question to me: "Do you know what the capital of Georgia is?" as if it were some arcane secret that only the chosen few might know! LOL! Take it easy folks, you're all important in your own way. No need to beg for recognition.
I don't know why I respond to your posts but maybe it is because your lack of knowledge on the subjects that compells me to try and reason with you.
Hydgogen fuel cells are the latest craze promoted by guess who? Big Oil. Why would they want you to switch to another source of energy? Because it requires a lot of electricity generated by fossil fuels to produce. This way we all stay on the Big Oil t%t and we are placated by dreaming that we are being environmentally responsible and that there is a renewable energy we will not have to get from overseas. A common shortsighted American solution.
The technology I refer to is an actual onboard hydrogen generator that produces hydrogen on demand. No storage, no potential bomb or fire. The only by product is water. If you want to investigate this farther then follow this link.
I will grant you that the originator of this technology is a bit of a loon, but most inventors are. At least the successful ones.
I hope you can keep an open mind. Hey surprises happen.
Predictable for you. But speechless is a good tact for you. At least you don't have to respond to the argument.
It's pretty easy when you make the argument for me and provide an example of EXACTLY what I was saying.
Do you think in three or for word increments or do you just bunch them up into one great mess and blurt them out?......[rolleyes]
Definitely not. In order to do so though we must first become energy independent. As long as you are dependent on someone else for resources you are stuck with what they are selling. We must maximize the use of our own natural resources, by what ever means necessary. Drill ANWR, drill of the cost of Cali. Once done we can began to make bigger strides to getting off oil completely. Oil touches everything we use, thats a single point of failure. Oil has for far too long influenced foriegn policy.
another tax to "suck up" no thanks. I think we need to get the Federal Reserve under lockdown and imprison the guilty sniffed out by an audit.
I also thought is was interesting that he elluded to entering into Pakistan if required.
so far, one of the highlights of his time in office is that he did change the wording on the global war of terror. but you're right, now it's the everywhere war on terror.
as long as america projects its imperialistic attitude on the rest of the world, there will always be a preacher saying "new attacks are being plotted."
it's only a matter of time before someone comes along and gives america the ass-kicking it so rightfully deserves.
I hope true believers like you will have taken up arms on the side of whomever tries.
Spoken like a loyal American...Where would you have them start...with our troops or in the Texas Hill country?
Geeez...I don't follow your line of thinking about getting our _ss kicked...at all!
I think some people get caught up in the emotion of issues (and they like to throw in a bit they think sounds 'tough' while essentially advocating the weakening of the nation).
yeah...a little too dramatic,TK...I think...just to make a point!
Some seem to have a flair for the dramatic.
Is his name 'Tex'? And do you have to wait to be asked before responding?
actually, it's a texan with a little t, among other names. but then, mish, uh, tk, you wouldn't know anything about that.
i don't recall having to wait for you to ask, tex
We do think a lot of ourselves don't we. Our conquests have been many and lately immoral. It is a lot like the Romans in that we feel our military and economic might will prove superior. Trump it up with some made up crap and damn the torpedos full speed ahead.
Unfortunately we are set up as a warrior nation and war manufacturing giant. To feed the machine we need to use it once in awhile.
Funny part is we are getting our ass kicked and don't know it yet. At least we share something in common with the other late great super power the soviets, we are getting our ass kicked by the same enemy.
the President said (not last night, but recently) that if Iran continues with its nuclear tomfoolery "there will be consequences".
i wonder what that means.
Eh, air strikes against the nuke facilities, their air defence, and the terrorists aligning their borders. just my thought.
From The Obama? It means nothing, and Iran well knows it.
I don't advocate anyone getting their asses kicked. I especially don't think myself judge, jury, and executioner of the same country that, though not perfect, has given my family opportunities their own native countries did not provide. I do believe in self-defense, however. If you advocate kicking America's butt, you advocate kicking the butts of my friends, neighbors, and family.
What makes you think I deserve to have my butt kicked?
You don't, and despite any impassioned rhetoric by certain emotive elements here, there isn't a country or group of countries on this earth that would dare give it a try.
The funny part is that you are getting your butt kicked and you don't even know it. Granted it probably is pretty numb now.
Uh, no, I think I'd actually know if anyone was kicking my butt. That being said, the funny part is that when I know I'm getting my butt kicked, I don't sit around and just let it happen, blaming myself for other people's irrational hatred.
Explain the decline of the dollar and the confidence the rest of the world has in it. For so many years the trade for oil energy has been based on the US dollar. Recently Saudi Arabia and soon to follow OPEC countries will be trading oil in euros which have proven to be more stable in the latest crisis.
Carrying on two wars and spending so much money to bail out the very rich we are set up to recieve not only a royal butt kicking but a woop a*s but kicking when our number gets called.
What good will all our conquests and military strength get us then? We will be defeated by our short sighted behavior and arrogance to believe we are greater than we are.
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