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A Petition of Injunction To Remove Political Leaders From Congress!!

  1. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Hello Hubbers,

    If you are United States Citizen, I am asking you to STAND up for your Rights as a Citizen.

    The many problems plaguing society, which I have written a number of hubs about. I have expressed my displeasure with many others, who believe that THEY have a right, to impose on my right to live, and I found this to be strange, I even wrote a Hub about it.

    However, I digress and my point here is to get a general sense among Hubbers who are U.S. Citizens and where they stand exactly about the problems in America.

    I've already written a Hub, presently unpublished, about this specific Petition of Injunction To Remove ALL Political Congress Officials, and to replace them with NEW FRESH People.

    The PEOPLE, as in WE THE PEOPLE, is the only way things are going to change in America. The longer the Citizenry remains divided on many things, other people are losing their individual freedoms to live their life.

    My Company CAGSIL is all about Right To Life and Right To Choose.

    You have a RIGHT to Life - You have a RIGHT to Choose!

    Thank you for your time.

    Raymond Choiniere II
    CAGSIL services

    1. RKHenry profile image76
      RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      VOTE

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This single action doesn't solve anything. smile

        1. Unkotare profile image60
          Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I believe it does, in the hands of an educated, informed, responsible electorate.

          1. RKHenry profile image76
            RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I concur.

          2. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Apparently you don't have a firm grasp on the underlying problem. wink But thanks for your input. big_smile

            1. Unkotare profile image60
              Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'm quite confident that I understand the situation and your attitude, thanks.

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I am sure you don't. smile

                1. Unkotare profile image60
                  Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  And I'm sure I do. Shall we just repeat this over and over again?

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    No. We shall not repeat this over again. smile Have a great day. You want to disagree, that is your option. Then you don't need to be here. Bye. smile

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That's the looniest idea yet in these forums.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. Friendlyword profile image60
          Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ralph, this person does not realize that some people in this country had to face billy clubs, firehoses, and Death to get the right to vote. Ralph, this person does not appreciate little eighteen year olds fighting and dying to protect people's right to be useless. I tried. Dont waste your breath.

    3. Uninvited Writer profile image84
      Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

      Isn't that what elections are for?

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not good enough! big_smile

        1. Unkotare profile image60
          Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think it's good enough. An option too many people in this world don't share.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I'm glad you think it's good enough, but the bigger problem is that those who are already in office are abusing their oath to citizens and obviously the elections, which DO NOT consist of the majority of citizen(less than half of the citizens are registered voters). The majority is a combination of powerful and wealthy who used their money to push candidates thru office.

            There are marketing teams of people who manipulate, say and/or show American citizens, skewed facts in a light that makes many cheer for them or support their position.

            It's just spin, after spin, after spin and I do not see how that is going to fix anything in this country. smile

            1. Friendlyword profile image60
              Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'll repeat! Your THROW UP YOUR HANDS AND THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER is this country's real problem. To helll with the good ole days!!!   Let's have some high minded action from you,  instead of highminded talk.  40 Republican Senators and five Democratic Senators Detroyed any chance of this country getting a decent Health Care Bill.  Draw up a pitition with the NAMES of those sellouts on it.  Help the rest of us to THROW THOSE 45 BUMS OUT OF OFFICE. Enough of the empty talk. Do something!

              1. livewithrichard profile image84
                livewithrichardposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You assume that the country wants the Health Care bill that is presented. Any poll you look at will show you that 53% to 56% of Americans are opposed to the bill. Seems like a clear majority so maybe those 45 bums were voting exactly the way their constituents wanted them to vote.

              2. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You are choosing sides? roll when both sides are useless. Doh! smile

            2. Unkotare profile image60
              Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              If people choose not to vote, then they choose not to matter. If politicians are not faithful to their pledges, then they should be voted out next time. If voters reelect them because they are lazy, easily manipulated, or uninformed, then that is on the voters. Responsibility is a big part of Democracy.

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                That's not true, and has always been a FALSE theory at best.

                If people choose to NOT vote for a Candidate, they STILL reserve the right to have a say in what goes on, because they are still American citizens, regardless of what you or any one else for that matter.

                This is precisely what is NOT happening.

                Yes, it is, but it would also be helpful if "BUSINESS" took it's hand out of the Politicians backsides and stop controlling them, just because they give money to their campaign.

                Like Robin Williams said in the movie "Man Of The Year", when a politician receive huge financial contributions from some activist group or another.....Whose "interest" is the politician really looking out for? It's completely unknown. smile

                1. livelonger profile image89
                  livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Sure, they can say whatever they want. The power of speaking is a signal to the rep that they might be voted out next time. We live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy (outside of a few jurisdictions that supplement a legislature with a referendum process).

                  They do so because money helps them win. Lots of advertising gives candidates an edge. Blame uninformed voters who are swayed by shiny things.

                  I would love to get money out of politics but it is tough, but almost all incumbents got into office with the help of lobbyist money so there is a strong disincentive to change the status quo.

                  It seems the best would be to make Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) more and more popular, to give 3rd party candidates a chance. It's been tried in smaller jurisdictions like here in San Francisco.

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Well said. I do blame uninformed voters for the mess of the Nation/Country.

                    There is no doubt about that. smile

                2. Unkotare profile image60
                  Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I respectfully disagree. People have the right to vote. If they choose to throw away that right then they have chosen to make themselves irrelevant.

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Deleted

                    1. profile image0
                      Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      Sitting by the sidelines doing nothing will not help either. Find someone in whom you believe and get Him or Her to run and hopefully win a seat, then repeat that process; that is how you make a real difference.

                    2. Unkotare profile image60
                      Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      If they don't vote they are throwing away their choice. If you feel it is a case of the lessor of two evils and you end up with the greater evil you have thrown away the right to at least mitigate the effect. Beyond that, I think that exercising one's rights and responsibilities includes being involved at all stages of the electoral process. If one just sits on the sofa and barely manages to go pull a lever in November, that person has done the bare minimum as a citizen and has no call to gripe about lessors of two evils and such, as far as I'm concerned.

      2. livelonger profile image89
        livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Haha, yes! But lots of Americans want a revolution when their representative wasn't elected. It's the adult version of a temper tantrum. smile

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Not really, but can be made to appear that way, by those who refuse change. smile

        2. Mitch Rapp profile image61
          Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That's true, do you remember the eight year fit the liberals threw? For some reason I bet you don't.

          1. livelonger profile image89
            livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I do. I remember, though, that there was far less outrage between the time Bush won (under far more contentious circumstances--remember Florida? Kathleen Harris?) and his invasion of Iraq from the Left, than against Obama, who won with a far clearer mandate and who didn't do anything except what he proposed to do, from the lunatic Right.

            1. Unkotare profile image60
              Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              The passage of time makes it hard sometimes to recall but I don't think there could be more outrage and wailing than there was at that time. Everyone gets upset according to their inclinations, and it is natural to always see the 'other' side as more noisy than one's own.

    4. IntimatEvolution profile image82
      IntimatEvolutionposted 7 years ago

      Yes, uninvited writer.  I believe your right.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't because obviously you're missing the point of getting new people in office. The ELECTION process is a joke.

        The election process isn't working and hasn't been working, or never has worked. You can pick your choice.

        Btw- Voting for the LESSOR of two evils isn't how you're suppose to vote. smile

        1. starme77 profile image88
          starme77posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Who counts the votes? Some Democrat in an office and some Republican in another , Anyone ever been able to participate in vote counting? I think its the one who has the most money that wins

          1. wyanjen profile image88
            wyanjenposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I've been involved in several elections, as a reporter not as a participant. My job was to monitor the count.  Someone in my family participated in a vote re-count last year.
            It's true, there is corruption, but I've never seen even a whiff of favoritism myself. Folks I've dealt with are very proud that they are impartial. smile
            Just a personal experience smile

    5. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

      I'm with ya on removing Congress.
      But hey I say start with the President first and let the chips fall.
      And I'm a right-to-lifer, but what the heck does your sentiment about right-to-choose mean?  That's a conflict of interest unless you're referring to the gay agenda, which I fervently oppose.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Right to Choose is about YOU staying out of other people's business! smile

        1. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          hmm..

          I'd love to do that, just as soon as they and YOU quit trying to legalize hogwash.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well, hogwash is what you voted in, just like all the other years you voted.

            Doesn't seem to be doing any good?  Time for a change in tactics!

    6. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

      or advocate legalizing it, whichever you do.

    7. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      Care to tell me, WHAT hogwash you're talking about?

    8. dave272727 profile image61
      dave272727posted 7 years ago

      In the beginning of country the common man could become elected.  The common man had a voice.  The common man's voice was heard.  Now the only way to become elected is to have a background full of privilege and a sense of entitlement.  Now we are forced to choose between the best worst people to run the country.  In my opinion and that is all that I can offer is my opinion, I would follow any leader.  Race, gender, orientation, left, right, etc.  If they listen to the people.  The government is supposed to be run "by the people and for the people".  When was the last time that YOU had a say?  And please don't tell me voting.  I have personally written my Senators and Congressmen both emails and written snail mail and have received NO RESPONSE!  I had questions.  I think that if I voted for them I should get a response.  Even if it was just a form letter acknowledging the receipt of my inquiry.  I did not receive anything from them.  I served in the military, I vote at every opportunity, and I hope that things can change.

    9. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      So, what are you trying to say? smile

      1. dave272727 profile image61
        dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am trying to say that we need to return to the principles that the country was founded upon.  We need to fix the problems at home before we can tackle the problems of the world.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I will agree. It is time for America to take care of it's own properly, before it start handling problems abroad. smile

    10. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

      You mean by the majority, Dave?

      What if the majority, or at least the majority who speak the loudest and push the hardest,  are wrong?
      What then?

      A democracy is majority "rule", correct?

      ...a Republic, from what I understand, is majority "rule" BUT with the knowledge and responsibility to stand UPON the basics of right and wrong.
      That foundation is being crumbled more every day by the liberal agenda.
      What now?

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The majority...is less than HALF of the Nation? How do I know that? Because, less than half of the Nation is actually registered to vote. smile

        So, what "majority" are you talking about?

        I see the "majority", as the rich or wealthy, who are at fault, already for ruining this country.

        The concensus is for "WE THE PEOPLE", that means more people need to become more active and this is what I am looking for! smile

        1. dave272727 profile image61
          dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You know I am already behind this movement.  Tell me where to sign the petition, and I will put MY John Hancock front and center.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I have already written the Hub and I will be publishing in a few days. I want to make sure, people really understand what's going on.

            I want to Thank you for your support in this matter. smile

      2. dave272727 profile image61
        dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Liberals and conservatives all put their pants on one leg at a time just like you and I.  I think that a meeting should be held with both sides present.  To reach an agreement or to form a decision.  Yes the majority usually wins, but a decision can only be made based upon the facts that a person has available to them.  Take the last election for example.  How many of our tax dollars were wasted by BOTH parties trying to hide information from the general public(that would be you and me)?  Recent elections have become more about mudslinging and empty promise than actual progress.  That spawned the joke which unfortunately has become truth.  How can you tell if a politician is lying?  His or Her lips are moving.

    11. Misha profile image74
      Mishaposted 7 years ago

      Good luck Ray! smile

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you Misha. It means, a lot coming from you. smile

    12. Arthur Fontes profile image89
      Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

      The system is flawed. Put all labels aside do you think our Government has been run responsibly since as long as anyone here was born and beyond?

      The system needs to change.  Bureaucracy cannot dominate a budget leaving crumbs to help the average citizen.  Our representatives need to listen to us and do according to our will not the will of some corporate conglomerate.

      We need to break the hold of international bankers over our society.

      We need to stop unelected Councils from directing the direction our country will head.

      We need to end the Fed, paying interest to bankers to print our fiat currency and allowing them to free up or freeze available credit thereby having the ability to control our economy.

      Why should we work all week to have a portion of our earnings  go directly out of the country just to cover interest on an out of control debt.

      What if the U.S. loses its credit rating?

      Can a country be repossessed?

      1. dave272727 profile image61
        dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        No but it can be sold.  How much of the American soil is owned by foreign government and business?  Where did the 800 billion dollars come from the our President receive come from? 

        Yes I know the answers to both of those questions, and to be honest they upset me.

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This Country was already bought and sold, over 100 times and if something isn't done.....many citizens are going to lose more than just their individual rights. smile

        There is NO LONGER any form of protection for the citizenry.

        Change must come! smile

    13. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

      Right, dave,

      but I see no way of preventing the NEW ones who'll come to power from doing the same thing as the former ones, or worse.

      And ya wanna know why?

      Because this current Administration has set the basis for doing what Obama said his agenda was-----fundamentally changing America.
      There was nothing wrong with the fundamental basis.   We just needed good decent caring people in power.

      Now, since the precedent has been set (and some major laws already changed that kept us on the right tract),  I don't think we can change direction until we nullify the things this current Administration has said and done,  and change it legally;  because it's not the person, really, who makes the difference;  it's the laws upon which they stand and are accountable to.

      1. dave272727 profile image61
        dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        One man or woman CAN make a difference.  What has he done to fundamentally change America?  Honestly, can you tell me one thing that he has changed in the short time he has been in office that has had a positive impact on the general public?  Liberal or Conservative. 
        Fact:  The Unemployment rate in the United States is the highest it has been in 35 years.
        Fact:  Billions and Billions of dollars fly out of our borders each month.
        Fact:  An illegal immigrant has MORE rights and civil liberties than a disabled VETERAN.
        Fact:  More families live at or below the poverty line in MANY states.
        Fact:  Blue collar workers make up the majority of the population, yet their voices are seldom heard by ANYONE.

        All of these problems were in place before he came to office, and I have not noticed ANY mention of any possible solutions or meetings to address them.

        1. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Wait.  Are we misunderstanding each other?
          I'm against everything Obama's done so far. 
          Are you saying he "inherited" all the problems?

          Are you maybe an Independent or a Libertarian?

          ...the habit these days is to denounce the Republican Party AND the Democratic Party and push for a "new" Party to gain power.
          I say the Republican Party needs to stop trashing its core values and STAND on those values;  otherwise, this nation's on a crash course to depression and hell.

          1. dave272727 profile image61
            dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Brenda,
            We aren't misunderstanding each other at all.  I was merely putting forth the questions in an attempt to engage the lurkers to arm themselves with information.  I AM more of an Independent or a Libertarian.  Just because the two party system is flawed at the moment.  I also agree with what you said about the Republican party.  If they return to core values and stand behind them, then we can fix what is broken.  What is broken is trust.
            I believe wholeheartedly that the nation as a whole is lacking in values.  The values that Pokermoneyclips mentioned.  I agree 100% with everything he said.

          2. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            The Republican party is no different than that of the Democratic party. They are both scum. smile

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Politicians need to be held accountable for the travesty called government.  It's been ineffective and inefficient for far too long.

        Anything this administration has already done can be undone. Not to mention, the POWER of the People, any Law(s) or Legislation can be removed or repealed. smile

    14. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

      I've signed many a petition already,  which I'm glad of, but there's one thing I've become leery of, and that's signing petitions and joining any group unless I know they really are overwhelmingly conservative on both the monetary, anti-big-government issues plus the social issues.
      There's a wave of liberals who've started riding the coattails of the conservative movement......

      1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
        Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This is a much larger issue than liberal or conservative.  Do not let the decisions you are allowed to make let you believe their is really a decision.

        Obama or McCain

        Lynching or Drowning

        Not much choice both were presented by the same puppetmasters.

        The real agenda moves forward regardless of the salesman.

        The best salesman was elected in 2008 that was all.

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, I don't wave any flag of liberal or conversative. I'm not a political activist. I have no political agenda, except to fight and defend the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights and support of the Declaration of Independence, which this country was founded on.

        I don't agree with labels. So, my view is Independant. smile

        How that jives with you? I don't know. smile

    15. dave272727 profile image61
      dave272727posted 7 years ago

      James A Watkins a hubber, wrote a wonderful piece titled "Partition America".  That piece would be at the top of my suggested reading list for anyone interested in government or politics. 

      That being said.  Yes I agree with you Brenda on that growing movement.  That is happening because there are more conservatives than liberals these days.  People are jumping the fence because they are not happy.  I am reasonably certain there are threads similar to this one on forums all across America.  The general consensus of the people is that they are not happy.  Some choose to ignore the problem, some don't care, and others are told to shut up about it because the majority of the people don't want to hear it.

    16. pokermoneyclips profile image78
      pokermoneyclipsposted 7 years ago

      If the petition protects my rights to spend my money the way I want to spend it (no more congress trying to tell my bank I can't play internet poker) and the right to smoke my way to cancer then I'm all for it. In all seriousness though I doubt any sort of petition will even see the light of day. If anyone remembers some famous words by Thomas Jefferson regarding a revolution every generation to protect the civil liberties of the people, well, now we know why he said it. The powers that be have already passed enough laws to bypass the checks and balances system we put in place to prevent them from becoming too powerful. We've already moved past National socialist and are well on our way to socialism. Unless you can undo the damages that have been done by the socialists infiltrating our system during the red scare there's no chance at change. Increasing education, bringing back family values, and returning our pledge to include the word "God" would be a good start.

      It's been the massive removal of faith that has caused our downfall. If people don't believe in God, the only thing for them to believe in is Gov't. If you bring back values, people fear something greater than the Gov't. By the way I'm in no way considered a religious person, I just know that faith is what the socialists were in favor of destroying. Oh and I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Amen.

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I have ONE problem with your unifying the pledge to GOD. It is to remain SEPARATED from Government. ALL of it is to remain outside of Government. smile

        1. dave272727 profile image61
          dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think he meant return the word God to the Pledge of Allegiance.  At least that is what I am hoping....

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No! Absolutely not.

            Religion is to remain OUTSIDE of the schools too. There is a reason why "religion" is only taught as a topic and "religious" teachings are done in separate schools.

            Sorry, don't agree on that single point. smile America isn't a religious Country, it's a people country.  Freedom to practice whatever religion is already granted. It's not to be promoted by the Government, as a singular united notion. smile

          2. pokermoneyclips profile image78
            pokermoneyclipsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Wow I set off quite the uproar. My statement was more addressed to returning things to the way they used to be. As I said before I'm nowhere near a religious person, but changing the pledge to "to the earth" is terrible. Taking away Christmas from the people and having us all walk around saying "happy holidays" is just as bad. There were traditions to this country that kept everyone unified, the same traditions that are being taken away today. Any sort of belief system helps to bring hope and goodwill towards their fellow man. Any sort of censorship is bad.

            If anyone has read the plan the communists had for infiltrating and destroying our country eliminating religion was part of the plan. While its easy to control people through religion, its also easy to control those without religion simply by giving them something to believe in. My point on religion stemmed from the values it brings back to the community. A person's religion isn't important, what is important is that the family is united passing on traditions of being good to your fellow man and respecting people, not cheating on spouses, stealing, etc. If the family unit can be divided, there is no hope for a happy future. 

            Right now what we're being given is a series of scape goats to blame our problems on while the real enemies continue to do what they're doing. Middle class isn't happy? Tell them the rich has all their money, while the one's in power continue to take away civil liberties.

    17. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      The downfall of America isn't because of a lack of faith in GOD, it is a lack of knowledge and understanding. smile

    18. dave272727 profile image61
      dave272727posted 7 years ago

      I just think that one nation under God has a better ring to it smile

      It is alright for us to disagree on that point.  I am sure we will disagree on others as well. 

      I am still backing this plan of yours and believe that we are on the same page.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you smile

    19. Arthur Fontes profile image89
      Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

      Government and religion do not mix.  Too easy to divide people with labels.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, exactly. Too easy to create separation, so as to divide and conquer. smile

      2. dave272727 profile image61
        dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree, I just think it would be alright to restore the Pledge of Allegiance. 

        When I was younger the norm was for someone to lead the class every morning in the Pledge.  It was their choice whether or not to say God.  That is what I want.  People to have THAT freedom back.  I don't think it is the Government's responsibility to choose for me.

        1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
          Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I support a pledge of allegience just not involving god.

        2. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I would rather not have other students saying "GOD" in class. It could be more a disruption, than needed, especially in today's society. smile

          That's just my way of keeping it out of schools. It's important that "GOD" be a choice and remain that way, without other influences, besides the already standing ones in place.

    20. dave272727 profile image61
      dave272727posted 7 years ago

      That is fine and that is YOUR right smile

      I just want to restore it to where it was.  I am not a religious person by any means.  I believe in the separation of church and state.  I was just hoping that my unborn children could say the same pledge that I did when the time comes.

      1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
        Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        They can you could all say it together in the morning before school.  That would be cool!

        1. dave272727 profile image61
          dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          That would be cool!  That is a very good idea.

        2. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Very nice idea. smile

    21. Arthur Fontes profile image89
      Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

      Who is John Galt?

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        A fictional character from one of the worst novels ever written.....

        Wow, sometimes A really is A!

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hello Ron. How are you? smile

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
            Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Sleepy, thanks.  Hope all is well with you.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              All is well. Not sleepy yet tho. lol smile

    22. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      I find it interesting that only a couple of people are actually here talking about this. sad yikes

      Maybe that is the OUTRAGE that really needs to be brought to the attention of the American people.

      Unbelieveable! smile

    23. dave272727 profile image61
      dave272727posted 7 years ago

      I am sure that there are a lot reading it though.  It demands attention and ACTION!!

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, but before "action" can be taken, American citizens MUST understand what's happening, so they don't get soaked up or engulfed in the massive spin Government and Business, is going to drum up, to deafen the sound of our rising voice.

        It is expected. smile I already see it coming, but when 200 Million citizens or more are in agreement that CHANGE has to come about.

        You want to see Government move to quash the actions it sees coming?  Guarantee, every politician in office, will be begging for their job and that's how they are supppose to get elected. smile

        1. dave272727 profile image61
          dave272727posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I couldn't agree more.

        2. Friendlyword profile image60
          Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I have to ask you. What about the politicians that are doing a good job and working for the people of this country right now?  And right now you have 40 Republican Senators in Washington that are just taking up space!  Why have a THROW UP YOUR HANDS AND THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER attitude.  Throw the bums out that are not doing anything for this country. They are bought and paid for and they have no regard for the American People or our best interest.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            If you can find ONE honest one among the group? You're a better judge of character than I am. Then again, I have NEVER voted for a politician I didn't think deserved my vote. So, I guess my Integrity is pretty good, considering what I am now talking about doing! smile

            1. Friendlyword profile image60
              Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              If you never voted your words mean nothing! More wasted space!!!

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I said, I have never voted for a politician, I didn't think deserved my vote.

                I didn't say that I have never voted. smile

                1. Friendlyword profile image60
                  Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry I misread your comment. But, you are saying that there is no one in the Senate or Congress that deserve to be there? How would our Government and Country survive with an all new Government that didn't know what the helll they were doing?

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Apparently, you continue to read to fast and not read everything. The easiest solution to fix this problem is to wipe out all existing Leadership in the Congressional Office.

                    This will allow for other Politicians, to step up and claim one spot. A run-off election between two separate politicians, can be done for each seat. This will demote out all politicians and put new fresh faces in place.

                    The only people who will not be replaced is The President of the United States, His Cabinet Staff and the Joint Chiefs of the Military and Defense.

                    All the rest of the Politicians who hold a seat in Congress are bounced out, by new fresh elections. smile

              2. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                And, btw - I am STILL an American born and raised. My vote counts, just like yours does.

                You have no right telling me that I have to vote for a politician, if I don't believe in any of the candidates. That's simply foolish and stupid. The power of the people is in their power to vote. That means, if you cannot back a candidate, then you reserve your right to not vote for them. If you keep your power in your hands, then the politicians have to change their tactics?

                That's what CHANGE is all about! smile

                1. h.a.borcich profile image59
                  h.a.borcichposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Not looking to be a smart a$$, but if that theory was effective - wouldn't all these years of withholding your vote have changed it by now?
                  All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing comes to mind.
                  Just asking is all, Holly

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    You can see it that way if you like, but does it make any sense to continue with what's been done and not try something different.

                    I'm not saying that doing nothing is fine, because it isn't. But, like everyone else has so nicely put it....ONE PERSON isn't a voice of the Nation. It is one vote, which doesn't make that big of a difference, when people are voting for the lessor of two evils?

                    That's what's been happening over the years. smile  I understand what you're saying, but remember, one measley little vote does nothing against the majority, unless the majority makes ONE single vote to do something about it. smile

                2. Friendlyword profile image60
                  Friendlywordposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm sorry. I did not read your comments as carefully as I should have.  But I understood that you want us to Blindly kick people out of office regardless of what they did to help us. I'm not comfortable giving up my right to think and choose and vote for the people I think is best suited to fill that office. My vote and my ability to think and make a choice is very important to me.

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    No problem. smile



                    No is saying to BLINDLY kick people out of office. There is no blindful action. We all have our eyes and we each can see the damage done by those already in office.  Again, I said it was about not knowing how is dirty? The fact that people are accessories after the fact, which is something any person can be convicted on, much less arrested for, yet politicians have wealth on their side to prevent themselves from getting into major trouble is sad.

                    And, that's what this is all about.....defending our RIGHTS to a efficient and effective government run by the people - for the people.

                    If you think I am trying to take your rights away, then you misunderstand my words. smile

    24. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      Hmmm......? Anyone else got something to say? Come on people, this is OUR lives here?

      Are you not going to stand up for yourself?

      Are you not going to stand up for other people's rights?

      Let's get real! smile

    25. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      Do realize- the NEW Majority, created by the Petition is to consist of ALL registered voters, to the tune of 300 Million people. The line has been crossed, according to the Declaration of Independence, between a Government run by the people and Government domination over the citizenry.

      Enough IS Enough! smile

    26. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      Okay, I'll pick this up tomorrow - whoever stops in to post, I'll check on later. It is 2:25 am and time for bed. smile

      Good night Holly and everyone else in this forum. smile

    27. Beth100 profile image83
      Beth100posted 7 years ago

      Good night Cags!  I'm heading off too!  smile

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Good night Beth. smile

    28. h.a.borcich profile image59
      h.a.borcichposted 7 years ago

      Cags,

         I hear ya. Most candidates are a disappointment. Researching their past performance has not helped as they have a chameleon quality. It does need to change smile Holly

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree. smile Good night Holly smile

    29. h.a.borcich profile image59
      h.a.borcichposted 7 years ago

      Good night smile

    30. Uninvited Writer profile image84
      Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

      No one has taken Christmas away from anyone...

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        True enough. They haven't tried yet, at least. lol lol lol

        1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
          Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Corporations need Christmas!!

          1. Unkotare profile image60
            Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Christians need Christmas.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Can we keep religion out of this conversation, because it has NOTHING to do with Government and will remain separated. smile

              1. Unkotare profile image60
                Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Fine by me, but if you mention Christmas...

                1. RKHenry profile image76
                  RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Yeah, don't you hate it when people forget themselves.  It seems to have become a real bad habit.

    31. Arthur Fontes profile image89
      Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

      Before we start worrying about the cleanliness of the neighborhood we should clean our own house first.

      American elections are fine?

      On a national level you get a choice between two puppets both nominated by the same entities what a choice!!

      Local elections may be different I do not know?

      My city seems to run pretty efficiently and I am happy with my city's government.

      We just elected the youngest Mayor in the history of the city and I am optimistic as long as we can keep the Oppresive Federal Governments out of our lives.

      1. Unkotare profile image60
        Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well, you can get involved in improving that situation, right?

        1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
          Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Absolutely and that is why I love my country!

    32. livewithrichard profile image84
      livewithrichardposted 7 years ago

      Cags I can understand your frustrations with government but kicking all them to the curb at once would weaken this country beyond repair. There is a better way and it starts at the local level.  It's called TERM LIMITS. 

      Term Limits will never pass at the national level. Senator Jim DeMint (SC) has a term limits bill but it's getting little traction.  No, term limit legislation needs to be done at the state level through ballot initiatives. You see, state legislators won't put it up for vote either so the people have to do it by getting the petition to put it on the ballot.

      Term limits will allow for an even phase out of politicians that are already in office. The hardest part is getting the same term limits set in every state.  Right now, 15 states have imposes term limits, so it can be achieved.

      Also, it seems some people do not fully understand the difference between a Democracy and a Republic or that we in the US are a Republic.  A democracy is majority rule without any safeguards for the individual or minority groups.  A republic is majority limited with constitutional safeguards for the individual and minority groups.

      Several times in this thread I read something about the majority. What kind of country would we have if we let the majority rule knowing that 80% of Americans, including myself, call themselves Christians? If majority ruled, how could we keep the separation of Church and State? How could we protect the property rights of minority groups?

      1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
        Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Majority rule is a mob rule.  I agree term limits would help there are still  senators in office who fillibustered the civil rights bill  Senator Robert Byrd.. Democrat  KKK too wasn't he???

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        To keep the separation of 'church' and State is quite simple. Have honest people, who use their brain to make decisions, instead of the emotional faith.

        This isn't a religious argument and I really don't want to get into a religious argument. The "Majority", as it stands right now are already stripping people of their individual rights and property as is.  Bring religious people, who make decisions not based on factual evidence, but on emotions is completely useless and isn't a benefit to society.

        By eliminating the "majority" mob rule mentality, by getting MORE of the Nation involved in the running of this Country. That's how we protect them, as well, as their rights. smile

        1. livewithrichard profile image84
          livewithrichardposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          My point was that you're not going to avoid the religious debate in this process since 80% of Americans are self-proclaimed Christians. Also, it's not the "majority" that is stripping the rights of individuals, it's the constitutional boundaries that level the playing fields for minority groups that make it seem that you are losing more rights.

          This is the biggest reason why we need stronger States rights and less central government. I think we can fix most of our woes at the state level. In fact, 37 states, as of Oct 2009, have introduced state sovereignty resolutions in their legislatures to keep the Federal Gvt. from imposing regulations on them. The Fed gets away with it because of interstate commerce laws and by stiff arming States by withholding federal funding for infrastructure projects.

          The states recognize that if a product is produced in state and does not cross state lines then the Fed has no say as to its manufacture or distribution ie. medical marijuana and fire arms. They have also passed or are in the process of passing legislation that excludes them from provisions of any National Health Care, or Real ID plans.

          All I'm saying, start at the State level. If you can't get any traction at the state level then move to a state where it is getting traction or invest more time and energy to get the traction.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I get what you're saying. smile

      3. Unkotare profile image60
        Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The best term limits are those at the ballot box.

    33. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      What seems to be missing is the POINT - Politicians are being strangled by business. The citizenry is the one who is getting pounded here.

      I don't have a problem with term limits. But, I do have a problem imposing term limits on those who are already in office, because even if you put term limits on the offices themselves, those who are already in office are going to use their power to make sure that the term limits do not apply to them, until the next election.

      This does no good. I say, REMOVE all of them and put new fresh faces in office, with new term limits. Clean the slate with the morons already in office. Another 2 or 3 years of garbage continuing to pour out into America's society is going to only do more damage than necessary.

      Livewithrichard, I can understand what I propose is a bit extreme, but it will send a CLEAR and CONCISE message to Government, that the PEOPLE are the ones that run this damn country and not business.

      I have watched at my State goverment has been influenced by business and outside governments, to change their mentality, toward what's in the best interests of citizens and that one step has diminished the quality of life for everyone involved.

      1. Unkotare profile image60
        Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well, if enough people agree with you, you will get your wish. If not...

    34. tony0724 profile image60
      tony0724posted 7 years ago

      Cagsil I like the concept but two things need to happen . First everyone has to register as an Independent , I think that would be great. And we also need a viable third party candidate. We cannot keep doing the same thing and expecting different results !

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        True enough. smile

      2. Unkotare profile image60
        Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Why would that be great? Do you want everyone to have no political point of view?

        1. tony0724 profile image60
          tony0724posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It would be great because then the politicians would have to take a stand on the issues and not just give lip service to one party Ideology. We would get to see who they really are.

          1. RKHenry profile image76
            RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That's the problem.  We see too much of there "realness" as it is.

          2. Unkotare profile image60
            Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I don't see how. You would just have the same thing under a different banner.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Open your eyes to more than just your view. smile

              1. Unkotare profile image60
                Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Why would you say that?

                1. Cagsil profile image60
                  Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Because, that is one of the biggest issue in America, there are TOO MANY people who are trying to enforce their WORLDVIEW on the rest, and you apparently seem to be one. smile That's why I would say that. smile

                  1. Unkotare profile image60
                    Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    With all due respect, you would seem to be the one trying to force a worldview on someone. You are welcome to yours, but if I disagree it certainly does not mean my eyes are not open or any other such dismissive comment.

            2. tony0724 profile image60
              tony0724posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You don't know till you try . One thing is for sure the current political process is broken.

              1. Unkotare profile image60
                Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Not going to happen in any case.

    35. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago

      I am FED UP with other people trying to tell the rest HOW to live their life, when in reality, they have no right to tell anyone how to live life. big_smile

      1. livelonger profile image89
        livelongerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ...says the guy who thinks gays/lesbians should not have the right to get married to the person they love.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I personally don't care if they want to get married. They want to get married, that is their choice. I have not a religious inclination that stops them. My point is that "marriage" is only associated with those of a religious point of view.  Marriage is also seen by others, but fail to see the religious connection to it. So, duh, I thought it would be obvious, since religious people are against GAYS from marrying.

          I really don't care if they want to get married. It is their life that they are completely wasting and not mine. smile

          1. Mitch Rapp profile image61
            Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Not all religious people are against them getting married, I know some people who do not believe in God who attack anything about gay marriage or rights for gay people.

        2. RKHenry profile image76
          RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You should join the Libertarian Party.  You are a perfect fit.  I went to one of their rallies last year with a friend.  What you just said, is basically their motto.  That's why I suggested it.  I just posted their link on another forum thread to prove there is a 3rd party in the US, but here it is again.

          http://www.lp.org/

          1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
            Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I fin myself agreeing with Libertarians.

            1. RKHenry profile image76
              RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              So does my best friend Ben.

            2. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I have no problem with our political system, and adding another party would create diversity in the ranks of politicians. smile

              But, myself- I am not a political activist and don't intend on becoming one. My simple nature is to help people strive for a better life and unfortunately, in America, Government change is necessary step for bettering the society as a whole. smile

          2. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry, not political. You can, but not me. smile

        3. Unkotare profile image60
          Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Not sure what this has to do with the topic here, but it seems only half right anyway.

        4. RKHenry profile image76
          RKHenryposted 7 years ago

          Not political???  Then WTF?

          Talk about wasting time.  I thought you didn't like to waste time.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. RKHenry profile image76
              RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Well then maybe you should get political so you would have a better ground to stand on, when it appears like your bitching about a system YOU don't waste time on. 

              Do you see my position?

              I see yours just fine.  You like to bitch, but do nothing expect write about your bitching.

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Deleted

                1. RKHenry profile image76
                  RKHenryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I won't go there today. 

                  wow.

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Hmmm...? roll

                2. Unkotare profile image60
                  Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't believe that to be true at all. Politics has very concrete consequences.

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Deleted

                    1. Unkotare profile image60
                      Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      What do you mean? Do legislators not pass laws that actually affect people? Do not leaders make choices that have life or death consequences? How is that only in one's mind?

        5. SparklingJewel profile image66
          SparklingJewelposted 7 years ago

          check out www.wethepeople.org  and  www.givemeliberty.org

          a redress of grievances as per the constitution is in process and ready to be signed by citizens

          a redress of grievances is to the federal government/administration asking for a response to the grievances and gives guidance as to how to get back to the constitution laws.

          click on and read the "Articles of Freedom" on the webpage to see those ideas that federal, state and individual can do to get back to the Constitution

          1. tony0724 profile image60
            tony0724posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you SJ !

            1. SparklingJewel profile image66
              SparklingJewelposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              you are most welcome, tony...spread the word !  smile

              1. SparklingJewel profile image66
                SparklingJewelposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                HEY guys...here's how to get what you want out of government...www.givemeliberty.org

                1. Cagsil profile image60
                  Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Would you please STOP doing that. smile

        6. profile image0
          Denno66posted 7 years ago

          It's called Big Business.

        7. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago

          What if I want a person to run for office and they decide not to run? I cannot vote for them? or Can I? Of course not, I can only choose between the two morons that make the cut at the end of the day.

          So, if I cannot support or back those two candidates, then what?

        8. Friendlyword profile image60
          Friendlywordposted 7 years ago

          USELESS EMPTY TALK!
          LATER.

          1. profile image0
            lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

            I'm Canadian hmm:

            1. profile image0
              Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You are one of the lucky ones. big_smile

              1. profile image0
                lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                big_smile

                1. profile image0
                  Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Double smiley face.

                  1. profile image0
                    lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    cool cool  only appropriate

                    1. profile image0
                      Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      Yeah, I finally used that one just the other day. big_smile

          2. ash.aw profile image60
            ash.awposted 7 years ago

            wow, you make sense for real , keep educating us , as seem to be "dumps" non understand our rights as ordinary citizens.
            keep up the good work.
            have a nice day

          3. profile image0
            lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

            mine too?

          4. profile image0
            Denno66posted 7 years ago

            * Legend has it that English only defeated German by a single vote to become the official language of the United States, in a 1795 Congressional debate.
            Have a nice day as well, Cagsil. big_smile

          5. Mitch Rapp profile image61
            Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago

            You dont have to tell anybody why, but we have the right to ignore any future forum topics from you.

            1. Cagsil profile image60
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              And, you want to have an attitude like that, then you are welcome to it, because obviously you have nothing to add to the substance of the conversation, but then again, that is your choice. Either way, have a great day. smile

              1. Mitch Rapp profile image61
                Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I know I am welcome to it, and as far as adding anything of substance to this it seems you haven't. You don't vote so your opinion does not matter, hell, you might as well switch citizenship to Australian!

                1. Cagsil profile image60
                  Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I never said I didn't vote. Get your facts straight. big_smile

                  1. Mitch Rapp profile image61
                    Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Do you vote?

                    1. Cagsil profile image60
                      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      I am a registered voter, so yes I vote.

                      1. Mitch Rapp profile image61
                        Mitch Rappposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                        Not all registered voters vote. I tend to agree with most of what you are saying I just think you shouldn't close a forum because someone doesn't.

                        1. Cagsil profile image60
                          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                          I am not closing because people are disagreeing me or what I have said. There are a lot of people who are agreeing with me.

                          I am closing the forum, because I have chosen to take a different path to obtain my objectives and this forum was simply a test for resistance. smile

                          1. Unkotare profile image60
                            Unkotareposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                            Don't take this the wrong way, but that's a little vague.

          6. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago

            Do you feel better now, that I have told WHY I want the forum closed? big_smile

          7. TLMinut profile image60
            TLMinutposted 7 years ago

            cagsil, if you can't find anyone to vote for, how do you propose to fill Congress with new faces?

            I've felt the same thing as you before, I was driving to the polls and had to turn around and come back home because I could NOT vote for either of my choices. Sometimes I see a civil war, revolution of some sort as the only possible means of correction but I prefer starting at the local levels as some here have suggested. I didn't realize how well it was really working in some places.

           
          working