If you are United States Citizen, I am asking you to STAND up for your Rights as a Citizen.
The many problems plaguing society, which I have written a number of hubs about. I have expressed my displeasure with many others, who believe that THEY have a right, to impose on my right to live, and I found this to be strange, I even wrote a Hub about it.
However, I digress and my point here is to get a general sense among Hubbers who are U.S. Citizens and where they stand exactly about the problems in America.
I've already written a Hub, presently unpublished, about this specific Petition of Injunction To Remove ALL Political Congress Officials, and to replace them with NEW FRESH People.
The PEOPLE, as in WE THE PEOPLE, is the only way things are going to change in America. The longer the Citizenry remains divided on many things, other people are losing their individual freedoms to live their life.
My Company CAGSIL is all about Right To Life and Right To Choose.
You have a RIGHT to Life - You have a RIGHT to Choose!
Thank you for your time.
Raymond Choiniere II
I believe it does, in the hands of an educated, informed, responsible electorate.
Apparently you don't have a firm grasp on the underlying problem. But thanks for your input.
I'm quite confident that I understand the situation and your attitude, thanks.
And I'm sure I do. Shall we just repeat this over and over again?
No. We shall not repeat this over again. Have a great day. You want to disagree, that is your option. Then you don't need to be here. Bye.
Is this your idea of a 'discussion'? Seems a little unproductive, if you don't mind my saying so.
I've had my discussion with you and your narrow-minded thinking is so far out-of-whack and long old traditional politic garbage and you continue to state your case, even when it's obvious, that we disagree.
So, I guess I'll be the bigger person and say that we'll just have to agree to disagree and be done.
Not sure where you got the idea I'm "narrow-minded." You don't expect everyone to agree with you all the time, do you? Does disagreeing with you equate to being narrow-minded or having one's eyes closed? I don't know about you, but I find discussions with those I disagree with more edifying than discussions with those who already agree with me.
That's the looniest idea yet in these forums.
Ralph, this person does not realize that some people in this country had to face billy clubs, firehoses, and Death to get the right to vote. Ralph, this person does not appreciate little eighteen year olds fighting and dying to protect people's right to be useless. I tried. Dont waste your breath.
I think it's good enough. An option too many people in this world don't share.
I'm glad you think it's good enough, but the bigger problem is that those who are already in office are abusing their oath to citizens and obviously the elections, which DO NOT consist of the majority of citizen(less than half of the citizens are registered voters). The majority is a combination of powerful and wealthy who used their money to push candidates thru office.
There are marketing teams of people who manipulate, say and/or show American citizens, skewed facts in a light that makes many cheer for them or support their position.
It's just spin, after spin, after spin and I do not see how that is going to fix anything in this country.
I'll repeat! Your THROW UP YOUR HANDS AND THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER is this country's real problem. To helll with the good ole days!!! Let's have some high minded action from you, instead of highminded talk. 40 Republican Senators and five Democratic Senators Detroyed any chance of this country getting a decent Health Care Bill. Draw up a pitition with the NAMES of those sellouts on it. Help the rest of us to THROW THOSE 45 BUMS OUT OF OFFICE. Enough of the empty talk. Do something!
You assume that the country wants the Health Care bill that is presented. Any poll you look at will show you that 53% to 56% of Americans are opposed to the bill. Seems like a clear majority so maybe those 45 bums were voting exactly the way their constituents wanted them to vote.
You are choosing sides? when both sides are useless. Doh!
If people choose not to vote, then they choose not to matter. If politicians are not faithful to their pledges, then they should be voted out next time. If voters reelect them because they are lazy, easily manipulated, or uninformed, then that is on the voters. Responsibility is a big part of Democracy.
That's not true, and has always been a FALSE theory at best.
If people choose to NOT vote for a Candidate, they STILL reserve the right to have a say in what goes on, because they are still American citizens, regardless of what you or any one else for that matter.
This is precisely what is NOT happening.
Yes, it is, but it would also be helpful if "BUSINESS" took it's hand out of the Politicians backsides and stop controlling them, just because they give money to their campaign.
Like Robin Williams said in the movie "Man Of The Year", when a politician receive huge financial contributions from some activist group or another.....Whose "interest" is the politician really looking out for? It's completely unknown.
Sure, they can say whatever they want. The power of speaking is a signal to the rep that they might be voted out next time. We live in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy (outside of a few jurisdictions that supplement a legislature with a referendum process).
They do so because money helps them win. Lots of advertising gives candidates an edge. Blame uninformed voters who are swayed by shiny things.
I would love to get money out of politics but it is tough, but almost all incumbents got into office with the help of lobbyist money so there is a strong disincentive to change the status quo.
It seems the best would be to make Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) more and more popular, to give 3rd party candidates a chance. It's been tried in smaller jurisdictions like here in San Francisco.
I respectfully disagree. People have the right to vote. If they choose to throw away that right then they have chosen to make themselves irrelevant.
Sitting by the sidelines doing nothing will not help either. Find someone in whom you believe and get Him or Her to run and hopefully win a seat, then repeat that process; that is how you make a real difference.
And, if I cannot find someone to put my vote behind, then what?
Then you keep looking. Not doing so invalidates every man and woman who laid down their lives for your right to vote.
Again, that still doesn't answer my question. If I continue looking for a candidate, yet still do not find one? Then what?
If you cannot find one, then you are not looking hard enough. And, if you still don't find one, then make that difference yourself. You appear to be an intelligent person; perhaps you would care to throw your hat into the ring. If politics doesn't interest you, then sit back and allow the Democratic system to pass you by, but realize your views are not as weighty as someone who voted.
Well, Cags. Let's clear the air here, shall we? I'm not telling you WHAT to do; you have free will there. I merely point out to you that if you do not vote then you do not contribute to the Democratic System. Abstaining is a message to be sure, but rather than griping about said system, make a change within it. If you do not wish to be a part of the Political Spectrum, great. But, last I checked, to win the lottery you have to buy a ticket.
Wow! You are in a antagonistic mood today, huh? You are free to do what you wish; don't let me stop you. Actually the system is a lottery and every now and then we do get someone who makes a difference. There is a movement out there that is attempting to change the way the system operates that forces accountability onto the politicians and forces them to abide by the Constitution. It won't happen overnight, but then again it took a long, hard fought battle to win the way of governance we now enjoy. Has it been perverted? Yes. Can it be fixed? I believe so. But, not by sitting on the sidelines taking potshots at it with what amounts to a peashooter.
Um, I believe the Petition of which you speak mirrors what I spoke of earlier. I'm not attacking your right to NOT vote, if you've read what I've written it alludes to the actions of which you've posted. However, somewhere along the line one needs to find the candidate to make these things happen. I am not saying you are doing nothing, rather I merely stated that not voting does not give you the right to criticize the outcome. Every vote counts.
To the contrary, nothing I've said contradicts. If you don't want to vote; fine. Withhold your vote. You have that right; just don't complain about the ones that were elected sans your vote. In regard to the 'every vote' response; Yep, every vote. I, myself, am a member of the 'movement' to bring about necessary change in the way of Governance. I am not attacking you personally, I ask that you return the favor. Thank you.
Does anyone disagree with me when I say the that city of Detroit, Michigan is a disastrous wreck? High crime, low literacy, fleeing population, vacant high rises that are turning back to nature exactly like in that TV show "Life After People".
Sorry, to any of my hubber neighbors who read this. You guys know I love it here downriver just the same, forgive me a little bad mouthing.
Point is, I'm talking about Bing's election.
As to your proposal Casgil, not voting is a BS cop-out. The lesser of two evils is still the best candidate. The rule in my house is, if you don't vote, you don't have the right to complain.
The voter turnout for Mayor Bing's election last May was FIFTEEN FRICKIN' PERCENT.
If you want to see the condition of a community that does not vote, come on over and I'll give you a personal tour.
Governor Baldacci of Maine won with something like 30% of the vote or some such. That is horrific!
I'll add to the horror:
This was the election to replace Kilpatrick, who was IN JAIL as a result of his corruption.
Still, only 15% of the people felt the need to elect a new mayor.
That is a ringing indictment of the apathy amongst the voting populace due to systemic failures all the way down the line.
From a philosophical view, you are right.
From a practical view, you are also right. If DPS could manage to graduate more than 25% of it's citizens, there would be a higher turnout. The larger concern is not urging people to vote, it's urging people to learn how to spell the word vote.
k, I'm done bashing.
Well, to quote George Carlin, the best comedian ever......I have my rights and my rights allow me to not vote, if I cannot support a jack-off, running for office in my local area. And, YES, I reserve the right to complain, because VOTERS don't use their brains when they vote, they chose the lessor of two evils, instead of STANDING pat against those who don't deserve to be in office.
I have a right to complain, when people who do vote, vote in another garbage politician, and then sit back and say, well he was no different than the rest....while the rest of the entire nation has to deal with your mistake as a voter.
No disrespect, but you're perception of the DUTY of an American Citizen is to keep your power in your hands.
If you have not cast your own vote, then complaining about how others voted seems kinda... hypocritical. No personal offense to you, that's just my train of thought.
Of course you have the right not to vote. If Americans were required to vote, the results would be even worse. But you are arm-chair quarterbacking if you criticize without participating.
Frankly, the mysterious "Honest Good Guy Politician" doesn't exist. If he did, he would not have the savvy to get himself elected in the first place.
First Do No Harm is the oath doctors take, not pols. In order to get some good work done, you have to get your hands a little dirty. It's the only way.
Are you sure you're not looking back through our government's history with rose colored glasses? It's been this way all along.
Then you do your civic duty and become a candidate yourself.
If they don't vote they are throwing away their choice. If you feel it is a case of the lessor of two evils and you end up with the greater evil you have thrown away the right to at least mitigate the effect. Beyond that, I think that exercising one's rights and responsibilities includes being involved at all stages of the electoral process. If one just sits on the sofa and barely manages to go pull a lever in November, that person has done the bare minimum as a citizen and has no call to gripe about lessors of two evils and such, as far as I'm concerned.
Haha, yes! But lots of Americans want a revolution when their representative wasn't elected. It's the adult version of a temper tantrum.
Not really, but can be made to appear that way, by those who refuse change.
That's true, do you remember the eight year fit the liberals threw? For some reason I bet you don't.
I do. I remember, though, that there was far less outrage between the time Bush won (under far more contentious circumstances--remember Florida? Kathleen Harris?) and his invasion of Iraq from the Left, than against Obama, who won with a far clearer mandate and who didn't do anything except what he proposed to do, from the lunatic Right.
The passage of time makes it hard sometimes to recall but I don't think there could be more outrage and wailing than there was at that time. Everyone gets upset according to their inclinations, and it is natural to always see the 'other' side as more noisy than one's own.
I don't because obviously you're missing the point of getting new people in office. The ELECTION process is a joke.
The election process isn't working and hasn't been working, or never has worked. You can pick your choice.
Btw- Voting for the LESSOR of two evils isn't how you're suppose to vote.
Who counts the votes? Some Democrat in an office and some Republican in another , Anyone ever been able to participate in vote counting? I think its the one who has the most money that wins
I've been involved in several elections, as a reporter not as a participant. My job was to monitor the count. Someone in my family participated in a vote re-count last year.
It's true, there is corruption, but I've never seen even a whiff of favoritism myself. Folks I've dealt with are very proud that they are impartial.
Just a personal experience
I'm with ya on removing Congress.
But hey I say start with the President first and let the chips fall.
And I'm a right-to-lifer, but what the heck does your sentiment about right-to-choose mean? That's a conflict of interest unless you're referring to the gay agenda, which I fervently oppose.
Right to Choose is about YOU staying out of other people's business!
I'd love to do that, just as soon as they and YOU quit trying to legalize hogwash.
In the beginning of country the common man could become elected. The common man had a voice. The common man's voice was heard. Now the only way to become elected is to have a background full of privilege and a sense of entitlement. Now we are forced to choose between the best worst people to run the country. In my opinion and that is all that I can offer is my opinion, I would follow any leader. Race, gender, orientation, left, right, etc. If they listen to the people. The government is supposed to be run "by the people and for the people". When was the last time that YOU had a say? And please don't tell me voting. I have personally written my Senators and Congressmen both emails and written snail mail and have received NO RESPONSE! I had questions. I think that if I voted for them I should get a response. Even if it was just a form letter acknowledging the receipt of my inquiry. I did not receive anything from them. I served in the military, I vote at every opportunity, and I hope that things can change.
I am trying to say that we need to return to the principles that the country was founded upon. We need to fix the problems at home before we can tackle the problems of the world.
You mean by the majority, Dave?
What if the majority, or at least the majority who speak the loudest and push the hardest, are wrong?
A democracy is majority "rule", correct?
...a Republic, from what I understand, is majority "rule" BUT with the knowledge and responsibility to stand UPON the basics of right and wrong.
That foundation is being crumbled more every day by the liberal agenda.
The majority...is less than HALF of the Nation? How do I know that? Because, less than half of the Nation is actually registered to vote.
So, what "majority" are you talking about?
I see the "majority", as the rich or wealthy, who are at fault, already for ruining this country.
The concensus is for "WE THE PEOPLE", that means more people need to become more active and this is what I am looking for!
You know I am already behind this movement. Tell me where to sign the petition, and I will put MY John Hancock front and center.
Liberals and conservatives all put their pants on one leg at a time just like you and I. I think that a meeting should be held with both sides present. To reach an agreement or to form a decision. Yes the majority usually wins, but a decision can only be made based upon the facts that a person has available to them. Take the last election for example. How many of our tax dollars were wasted by BOTH parties trying to hide information from the general public(that would be you and me)? Recent elections have become more about mudslinging and empty promise than actual progress. That spawned the joke which unfortunately has become truth. How can you tell if a politician is lying? His or Her lips are moving.
The system is flawed. Put all labels aside do you think our Government has been run responsibly since as long as anyone here was born and beyond?
The system needs to change. Bureaucracy cannot dominate a budget leaving crumbs to help the average citizen. Our representatives need to listen to us and do according to our will not the will of some corporate conglomerate.
We need to break the hold of international bankers over our society.
We need to stop unelected Councils from directing the direction our country will head.
We need to end the Fed, paying interest to bankers to print our fiat currency and allowing them to free up or freeze available credit thereby having the ability to control our economy.
Why should we work all week to have a portion of our earnings go directly out of the country just to cover interest on an out of control debt.
What if the U.S. loses its credit rating?
Can a country be repossessed?
No but it can be sold. How much of the American soil is owned by foreign government and business? Where did the 800 billion dollars come from the our President receive come from?
Yes I know the answers to both of those questions, and to be honest they upset me.
This Country was already bought and sold, over 100 times and if something isn't done.....many citizens are going to lose more than just their individual rights.
There is NO LONGER any form of protection for the citizenry.
Change must come!
but I see no way of preventing the NEW ones who'll come to power from doing the same thing as the former ones, or worse.
And ya wanna know why?
Because this current Administration has set the basis for doing what Obama said his agenda was-----fundamentally changing America.
There was nothing wrong with the fundamental basis. We just needed good decent caring people in power.
Now, since the precedent has been set (and some major laws already changed that kept us on the right tract), I don't think we can change direction until we nullify the things this current Administration has said and done, and change it legally; because it's not the person, really, who makes the difference; it's the laws upon which they stand and are accountable to.
One man or woman CAN make a difference. What has he done to fundamentally change America? Honestly, can you tell me one thing that he has changed in the short time he has been in office that has had a positive impact on the general public? Liberal or Conservative.
Fact: The Unemployment rate in the United States is the highest it has been in 35 years.
Fact: Billions and Billions of dollars fly out of our borders each month.
Fact: An illegal immigrant has MORE rights and civil liberties than a disabled VETERAN.
Fact: More families live at or below the poverty line in MANY states.
Fact: Blue collar workers make up the majority of the population, yet their voices are seldom heard by ANYONE.
All of these problems were in place before he came to office, and I have not noticed ANY mention of any possible solutions or meetings to address them.
Wait. Are we misunderstanding each other?
I'm against everything Obama's done so far.
Are you saying he "inherited" all the problems?
Are you maybe an Independent or a Libertarian?
...the habit these days is to denounce the Republican Party AND the Democratic Party and push for a "new" Party to gain power.
I say the Republican Party needs to stop trashing its core values and STAND on those values; otherwise, this nation's on a crash course to depression and hell.
We aren't misunderstanding each other at all. I was merely putting forth the questions in an attempt to engage the lurkers to arm themselves with information. I AM more of an Independent or a Libertarian. Just because the two party system is flawed at the moment. I also agree with what you said about the Republican party. If they return to core values and stand behind them, then we can fix what is broken. What is broken is trust.
I believe wholeheartedly that the nation as a whole is lacking in values. The values that Pokermoneyclips mentioned. I agree 100% with everything he said.
The Republican party is no different than that of the Democratic party. They are both scum.
Politicians need to be held accountable for the travesty called government. It's been ineffective and inefficient for far too long.
Anything this administration has already done can be undone. Not to mention, the POWER of the People, any Law(s) or Legislation can be removed or repealed.
I've signed many a petition already, which I'm glad of, but there's one thing I've become leery of, and that's signing petitions and joining any group unless I know they really are overwhelmingly conservative on both the monetary, anti-big-government issues plus the social issues.
There's a wave of liberals who've started riding the coattails of the conservative movement......
This is a much larger issue than liberal or conservative. Do not let the decisions you are allowed to make let you believe their is really a decision.
Obama or McCain
Lynching or Drowning
Not much choice both were presented by the same puppetmasters.
The real agenda moves forward regardless of the salesman.
The best salesman was elected in 2008 that was all.
Sorry, I don't wave any flag of liberal or conversative. I'm not a political activist. I have no political agenda, except to fight and defend the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights and support of the Declaration of Independence, which this country was founded on.
I don't agree with labels. So, my view is Independant.
How that jives with you? I don't know.
James A Watkins a hubber, wrote a wonderful piece titled "Partition America". That piece would be at the top of my suggested reading list for anyone interested in government or politics.
That being said. Yes I agree with you Brenda on that growing movement. That is happening because there are more conservatives than liberals these days. People are jumping the fence because they are not happy. I am reasonably certain there are threads similar to this one on forums all across America. The general consensus of the people is that they are not happy. Some choose to ignore the problem, some don't care, and others are told to shut up about it because the majority of the people don't want to hear it.
If the petition protects my rights to spend my money the way I want to spend it (no more congress trying to tell my bank I can't play internet poker) and the right to smoke my way to cancer then I'm all for it. In all seriousness though I doubt any sort of petition will even see the light of day. If anyone remembers some famous words by Thomas Jefferson regarding a revolution every generation to protect the civil liberties of the people, well, now we know why he said it. The powers that be have already passed enough laws to bypass the checks and balances system we put in place to prevent them from becoming too powerful. We've already moved past National socialist and are well on our way to socialism. Unless you can undo the damages that have been done by the socialists infiltrating our system during the red scare there's no chance at change. Increasing education, bringing back family values, and returning our pledge to include the word "God" would be a good start.
It's been the massive removal of faith that has caused our downfall. If people don't believe in God, the only thing for them to believe in is Gov't. If you bring back values, people fear something greater than the Gov't. By the way I'm in no way considered a religious person, I just know that faith is what the socialists were in favor of destroying. Oh and I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.
I have ONE problem with your unifying the pledge to GOD. It is to remain SEPARATED from Government. ALL of it is to remain outside of Government.
I think he meant return the word God to the Pledge of Allegiance. At least that is what I am hoping....
No! Absolutely not.
Religion is to remain OUTSIDE of the schools too. There is a reason why "religion" is only taught as a topic and "religious" teachings are done in separate schools.
Sorry, don't agree on that single point. America isn't a religious Country, it's a people country. Freedom to practice whatever religion is already granted. It's not to be promoted by the Government, as a singular united notion.
Wow I set off quite the uproar. My statement was more addressed to returning things to the way they used to be. As I said before I'm nowhere near a religious person, but changing the pledge to "to the earth" is terrible. Taking away Christmas from the people and having us all walk around saying "happy holidays" is just as bad. There were traditions to this country that kept everyone unified, the same traditions that are being taken away today. Any sort of belief system helps to bring hope and goodwill towards their fellow man. Any sort of censorship is bad.
If anyone has read the plan the communists had for infiltrating and destroying our country eliminating religion was part of the plan. While its easy to control people through religion, its also easy to control those without religion simply by giving them something to believe in. My point on religion stemmed from the values it brings back to the community. A person's religion isn't important, what is important is that the family is united passing on traditions of being good to your fellow man and respecting people, not cheating on spouses, stealing, etc. If the family unit can be divided, there is no hope for a happy future.
Right now what we're being given is a series of scape goats to blame our problems on while the real enemies continue to do what they're doing. Middle class isn't happy? Tell them the rich has all their money, while the one's in power continue to take away civil liberties.
The downfall of America isn't because of a lack of faith in GOD, it is a lack of knowledge and understanding.
I just think that one nation under God has a better ring to it
It is alright for us to disagree on that point. I am sure we will disagree on others as well.
I am still backing this plan of yours and believe that we are on the same page.
Government and religion do not mix. Too easy to divide people with labels.
Yes, exactly. Too easy to create separation, so as to divide and conquer.
I agree, I just think it would be alright to restore the Pledge of Allegiance.
When I was younger the norm was for someone to lead the class every morning in the Pledge. It was their choice whether or not to say God. That is what I want. People to have THAT freedom back. I don't think it is the Government's responsibility to choose for me.
I support a pledge of allegience just not involving god.
I would rather not have other students saying "GOD" in class. It could be more a disruption, than needed, especially in today's society.
That's just my way of keeping it out of schools. It's important that "GOD" be a choice and remain that way, without other influences, besides the already standing ones in place.
That is fine and that is YOUR right
I just want to restore it to where it was. I am not a religious person by any means. I believe in the separation of church and state. I was just hoping that my unborn children could say the same pledge that I did when the time comes.
They can you could all say it together in the morning before school. That would be cool!
A fictional character from one of the worst novels ever written.....
Wow, sometimes A really is A!
I find it interesting that only a couple of people are actually here talking about this.
Maybe that is the OUTRAGE that really needs to be brought to the attention of the American people.
I am sure that there are a lot reading it though. It demands attention and ACTION!!
Yes, but before "action" can be taken, American citizens MUST understand what's happening, so they don't get soaked up or engulfed in the massive spin Government and Business, is going to drum up, to deafen the sound of our rising voice.
It is expected. I already see it coming, but when 200 Million citizens or more are in agreement that CHANGE has to come about.
You want to see Government move to quash the actions it sees coming? Guarantee, every politician in office, will be begging for their job and that's how they are supppose to get elected.
I have to ask you. What about the politicians that are doing a good job and working for the people of this country right now? And right now you have 40 Republican Senators in Washington that are just taking up space! Why have a THROW UP YOUR HANDS AND THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER attitude. Throw the bums out that are not doing anything for this country. They are bought and paid for and they have no regard for the American People or our best interest.
If you can find ONE honest one among the group? You're a better judge of character than I am. Then again, I have NEVER voted for a politician I didn't think deserved my vote. So, I guess my Integrity is pretty good, considering what I am now talking about doing!
If you never voted your words mean nothing! More wasted space!!!
I said, I have never voted for a politician, I didn't think deserved my vote.
I didn't say that I have never voted.
Sorry I misread your comment. But, you are saying that there is no one in the Senate or Congress that deserve to be there? How would our Government and Country survive with an all new Government that didn't know what the helll they were doing?
Apparently, you continue to read to fast and not read everything. The easiest solution to fix this problem is to wipe out all existing Leadership in the Congressional Office.
This will allow for other Politicians, to step up and claim one spot. A run-off election between two separate politicians, can be done for each seat. This will demote out all politicians and put new fresh faces in place.
The only people who will not be replaced is The President of the United States, His Cabinet Staff and the Joint Chiefs of the Military and Defense.
All the rest of the Politicians who hold a seat in Congress are bounced out, by new fresh elections.
And, btw - I am STILL an American born and raised. My vote counts, just like yours does.
You have no right telling me that I have to vote for a politician, if I don't believe in any of the candidates. That's simply foolish and stupid. The power of the people is in their power to vote. That means, if you cannot back a candidate, then you reserve your right to not vote for them. If you keep your power in your hands, then the politicians have to change their tactics?
That's what CHANGE is all about!
Not looking to be a smart a$$, but if that theory was effective - wouldn't all these years of withholding your vote have changed it by now?
All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing comes to mind.
Just asking is all, Holly
You can see it that way if you like, but does it make any sense to continue with what's been done and not try something different.
I'm not saying that doing nothing is fine, because it isn't. But, like everyone else has so nicely put it....ONE PERSON isn't a voice of the Nation. It is one vote, which doesn't make that big of a difference, when people are voting for the lessor of two evils?
That's what's been happening over the years. I understand what you're saying, but remember, one measley little vote does nothing against the majority, unless the majority makes ONE single vote to do something about it.
I'm sorry. I did not read your comments as carefully as I should have. But I understood that you want us to Blindly kick people out of office regardless of what they did to help us. I'm not comfortable giving up my right to think and choose and vote for the people I think is best suited to fill that office. My vote and my ability to think and make a choice is very important to me.
No is saying to BLINDLY kick people out of office. There is no blindful action. We all have our eyes and we each can see the damage done by those already in office. Again, I said it was about not knowing how is dirty? The fact that people are accessories after the fact, which is something any person can be convicted on, much less arrested for, yet politicians have wealth on their side to prevent themselves from getting into major trouble is sad.
And, that's what this is all about.....defending our RIGHTS to a efficient and effective government run by the people - for the people.
If you think I am trying to take your rights away, then you misunderstand my words.
Hmmm......? Anyone else got something to say? Come on people, this is OUR lives here?
Are you not going to stand up for yourself?
Are you not going to stand up for other people's rights?
Let's get real!
Do realize- the NEW Majority, created by the Petition is to consist of ALL registered voters, to the tune of 300 Million people. The line has been crossed, according to the Declaration of Independence, between a Government run by the people and Government domination over the citizenry.
Enough IS Enough!
Okay, I'll pick this up tomorrow - whoever stops in to post, I'll check on later. It is 2:25 am and time for bed.
Good night Holly and everyone else in this forum.
I hear ya. Most candidates are a disappointment. Researching their past performance has not helped as they have a chameleon quality. It does need to change Holly
True enough. They haven't tried yet, at least.
Can we keep religion out of this conversation, because it has NOTHING to do with Government and will remain separated.
Before we start worrying about the cleanliness of the neighborhood we should clean our own house first.
American elections are fine?
On a national level you get a choice between two puppets both nominated by the same entities what a choice!!
Local elections may be different I do not know?
My city seems to run pretty efficiently and I am happy with my city's government.
We just elected the youngest Mayor in the history of the city and I am optimistic as long as we can keep the Oppresive Federal Governments out of our lives.
Cags I can understand your frustrations with government but kicking all them to the curb at once would weaken this country beyond repair. There is a better way and it starts at the local level. It's called TERM LIMITS.
Term Limits will never pass at the national level. Senator Jim DeMint (SC) has a term limits bill but it's getting little traction. No, term limit legislation needs to be done at the state level through ballot initiatives. You see, state legislators won't put it up for vote either so the people have to do it by getting the petition to put it on the ballot.
Term limits will allow for an even phase out of politicians that are already in office. The hardest part is getting the same term limits set in every state. Right now, 15 states have imposes term limits, so it can be achieved.
Also, it seems some people do not fully understand the difference between a Democracy and a Republic or that we in the US are a Republic. A democracy is majority rule without any safeguards for the individual or minority groups. A republic is majority limited with constitutional safeguards for the individual and minority groups.
Several times in this thread I read something about the majority. What kind of country would we have if we let the majority rule knowing that 80% of Americans, including myself, call themselves Christians? If majority ruled, how could we keep the separation of Church and State? How could we protect the property rights of minority groups?
Majority rule is a mob rule. I agree term limits would help there are still senators in office who fillibustered the civil rights bill Senator Robert Byrd.. Democrat KKK too wasn't he???
To keep the separation of 'church' and State is quite simple. Have honest people, who use their brain to make decisions, instead of the emotional faith.
This isn't a religious argument and I really don't want to get into a religious argument. The "Majority", as it stands right now are already stripping people of their individual rights and property as is. Bring religious people, who make decisions not based on factual evidence, but on emotions is completely useless and isn't a benefit to society.
By eliminating the "majority" mob rule mentality, by getting MORE of the Nation involved in the running of this Country. That's how we protect them, as well, as their rights.
My point was that you're not going to avoid the religious debate in this process since 80% of Americans are self-proclaimed Christians. Also, it's not the "majority" that is stripping the rights of individuals, it's the constitutional boundaries that level the playing fields for minority groups that make it seem that you are losing more rights.
This is the biggest reason why we need stronger States rights and less central government. I think we can fix most of our woes at the state level. In fact, 37 states, as of Oct 2009, have introduced state sovereignty resolutions in their legislatures to keep the Federal Gvt. from imposing regulations on them. The Fed gets away with it because of interstate commerce laws and by stiff arming States by withholding federal funding for infrastructure projects.
The states recognize that if a product is produced in state and does not cross state lines then the Fed has no say as to its manufacture or distribution ie. medical marijuana and fire arms. They have also passed or are in the process of passing legislation that excludes them from provisions of any National Health Care, or Real ID plans.
All I'm saying, start at the State level. If you can't get any traction at the state level then move to a state where it is getting traction or invest more time and energy to get the traction.
The best term limits are those at the ballot box.
What seems to be missing is the POINT - Politicians are being strangled by business. The citizenry is the one who is getting pounded here.
I don't have a problem with term limits. But, I do have a problem imposing term limits on those who are already in office, because even if you put term limits on the offices themselves, those who are already in office are going to use their power to make sure that the term limits do not apply to them, until the next election.
This does no good. I say, REMOVE all of them and put new fresh faces in office, with new term limits. Clean the slate with the morons already in office. Another 2 or 3 years of garbage continuing to pour out into America's society is going to only do more damage than necessary.
Livewithrichard, I can understand what I propose is a bit extreme, but it will send a CLEAR and CONCISE message to Government, that the PEOPLE are the ones that run this damn country and not business.
I have watched at my State goverment has been influenced by business and outside governments, to change their mentality, toward what's in the best interests of citizens and that one step has diminished the quality of life for everyone involved.
Cagsil I like the concept but two things need to happen . First everyone has to register as an Independent , I think that would be great. And we also need a viable third party candidate. We cannot keep doing the same thing and expecting different results !
Why would that be great? Do you want everyone to have no political point of view?
It would be great because then the politicians would have to take a stand on the issues and not just give lip service to one party Ideology. We would get to see who they really are.
That's the problem. We see too much of there "realness" as it is.
I don't see how. You would just have the same thing under a different banner.
Because, that is one of the biggest issue in America, there are TOO MANY people who are trying to enforce their WORLDVIEW on the rest, and you apparently seem to be one. That's why I would say that.
You don't know till you try . One thing is for sure the current political process is broken.
I am FED UP with other people trying to tell the rest HOW to live their life, when in reality, they have no right to tell anyone how to live life.
...says the guy who thinks gays/lesbians should not have the right to get married to the person they love.
I personally don't care if they want to get married. They want to get married, that is their choice. I have not a religious inclination that stops them. My point is that "marriage" is only associated with those of a religious point of view. Marriage is also seen by others, but fail to see the religious connection to it. So, duh, I thought it would be obvious, since religious people are against GAYS from marrying.
I really don't care if they want to get married. It is their life that they are completely wasting and not mine.
You should join the Libertarian Party. You are a perfect fit. I went to one of their rallies last year with a friend. What you just said, is basically their motto. That's why I suggested it. I just posted their link on another forum thread to prove there is a 3rd party in the US, but here it is again.
I fin myself agreeing with Libertarians.
I have no problem with our political system, and adding another party would create diversity in the ranks of politicians.
But, myself- I am not a political activist and don't intend on becoming one. My simple nature is to help people strive for a better life and unfortunately, in America, Government change is necessary step for bettering the society as a whole.
Not sure what this has to do with the topic here, but it seems only half right anyway.
Not political??? Then WTF?
Talk about wasting time. I thought you didn't like to waste time.
Well then maybe you should get political so you would have a better ground to stand on, when it appears like your bitching about a system YOU don't waste time on.
Do you see my position?
I see yours just fine. You like to bitch, but do nothing expect write about your bitching.
I don't believe that to be true at all. Politics has very concrete consequences.
check out www.wethepeople.org and www.givemeliberty.org
a redress of grievances as per the constitution is in process and ready to be signed by citizens
a redress of grievances is to the federal government/administration asking for a response to the grievances and gives guidance as to how to get back to the constitution laws.
click on and read the "Articles of Freedom" on the webpage to see those ideas that federal, state and individual can do to get back to the Constitution
you are most welcome, tony...spread the word !
What if I want a person to run for office and they decide not to run? I cannot vote for them? or Can I? Of course not, I can only choose between the two morons that make the cut at the end of the day.
So, if I cannot support or back those two candidates, then what?
wow, you make sense for real , keep educating us , as seem to be "dumps" non understand our rights as ordinary citizens.
keep up the good work.
have a nice day
* Legend has it that English only defeated German by a single vote to become the official language of the United States, in a 1795 Congressional debate.
Have a nice day as well, Cagsil.
You dont have to tell anybody why, but we have the right to ignore any future forum topics from you.
And, you want to have an attitude like that, then you are welcome to it, because obviously you have nothing to add to the substance of the conversation, but then again, that is your choice. Either way, have a great day.
I know I am welcome to it, and as far as adding anything of substance to this it seems you haven't. You don't vote so your opinion does not matter, hell, you might as well switch citizenship to Australian!
I never said I didn't vote. Get your facts straight.
Not all registered voters vote. I tend to agree with most of what you are saying I just think you shouldn't close a forum because someone doesn't.
I am not closing because people are disagreeing me or what I have said. There are a lot of people who are agreeing with me.
I am closing the forum, because I have chosen to take a different path to obtain my objectives and this forum was simply a test for resistance.
Do you feel better now, that I have told WHY I want the forum closed?
cagsil, if you can't find anyone to vote for, how do you propose to fill Congress with new faces?
I've felt the same thing as you before, I was driving to the polls and had to turn around and come back home because I could NOT vote for either of my choices. Sometimes I see a civil war, revolution of some sort as the only possible means of correction but I prefer starting at the local levels as some here have suggested. I didn't realize how well it was really working in some places.
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