My Hub 'My Time as a Professional Killer' was just flagged...

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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
...as having a misleading title.

I wrote an e-mail to hubpages staff stating;

I don't feel the title is misleading in as much as it does not say 'My Time as a Hitman'...which would imply a contract killer or criminal.

In My humble opinion a Soldier is a professional killer(one paid for doing a job, an employee) . Being highly trained in the 'Art of War' and the act of killing.

I humbly ask for a review and I seek an appeal on your decision to 'Flag' my hub.

Any consideration will be appreciated,
Mikel G Roberts, an Ex-Professional Killer.

Your thoughts?
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are all military personnel killers?
  
  I know the answer to that question.
  
  To be honest, you've done your fellow servicemen a disgrace with this title. There are some soldiers who have never seen war, but play a vital role in defending our country.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you mean that soldiers that actually did not kill are somehow better than those that did? Did I read it correctly?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you read it correctly.
  and , soldiers who play a different role and don't go to war are trained to kill, anyway. That's what a soldier is. A man trained to defend a country and paid for it. And in order to defend, in a war ,you must kill.
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here is a little exercise in logical thinking. If all the soldiers are only trained to defend and they kill only when they are defending, then they would never kill, because since everyone is just defending themselves and not attacking there would not be any attackers in the first place.
  
  Of course I can already see your reply - your soldiers are good boys in uniform and they only defend your nation, while soldiers from other countries are the one that are attacking. Of course these evil people are attacking you on their own home ground, where you are defending yourself.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE ME ALONE !!!
  I'M NOT AMERICAN !
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok I get it, I didn't see your answer, you said it minute after my first post, and in my 2nd post I was replying to the earlier posts.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really ?
  so what did you post this afterwards ?
  
  'p.s. Haven't you attacked good, old, jolly boys from Britain in the Falkland war, that just happened to be camping down there?'
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't you know what sarcasm is?
  
  Of course that Britain has attacked Argentina, I was implying that they were 'defending', just like U.S. was 'defending' itself in Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you just looking for a fight? Seriously uncalled for post...
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and the old saying...'the best defense is a good offense'?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Being paid to do a job makes one a professional,
  
  Being trained in a field makes one a part of that field...
  
  The title is accurate, and as far as thinking it is dishonoring any soldiers, tells me you haven't read it. It is a tribute to ALL our Military and Law Enforcement 'Professionals'.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  For me a soldier is entirely different from a mercenary. Soldiers execute actions what there jobs requires them to do, if they need to smother someone well that's the call of duty, that is to protect and eliminate criminals if possible.
  
  Mercenary is someone got paid to kill...
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  U.S. Soldiers don't get paid? when did that start?
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  B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe add the word soldier or military..something not so others would take it as a page of violence or misleading to violence ...I think you know what Im getting at, I hope
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  bgamallposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mike, I have a better idea. Since on occasion the military does defend the country and that is ok, but most times we invade countries to steal oil and other commodities, you could say you are a war criminal rather than a professional killer. You were duped into being a war criminal. Bush didn't tell you that you were going into Iraq to steal oil reserves. He told you he was fighting terrorism. Of course we knew the real motive when he voided all existing oil contracts.
  
  Same with Afghanistan. The military were told they went in to get the Taliban who allowed Bin Laden. But the real reason was to build an oil pipeline to Halliburton investments in the caspian sea. The Taliban, and it was reported sparsely, went to Texas in 1997 and refused to allow Unocal to build the pipeline. That was motive for 911 and an illegal war in Afghanistan.
  
  So you are a war criminal but you were fooled into being one.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you have it backwards. How is a soldier obeying orders a war criminal? Army is all about obedience, it can't work otherwise...
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Seems to me that the "following orders" defense didn't work too well in Nuremberg.
  
  The Nuremberg Defense is a legal defense that essentially states that the defendant was "only following orders" ("Befehl ist Befehl", literally "order is order") and is therefore not responsible for his crimes. The defense was most famously employed during the Nuremberg Trials, after which it is named.
  
  Before the end of World War II, the Allies suspected such a defense might be employed, and issued the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal (IMT), which specifically stated that following an unlawful order is not a valid defense against charges of war crimes.
  
  Thus, under Nuremberg Principle IV, "defense of superior orders" is not a defense for war crimes, although it might influence a sentencing authority to lessen the penalty. Nuremberg Principle IV states:
  
  "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Defense
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nazi Germany?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said already a page or two above what I think of Nuremberg.
  
  I think you have some thinking to do in this area. Unlike many others here you know the army from the inside. I know it from inside, too. Soviet army, but this does not make a big difference in that sense, it is a cornerstone of any army.
  
  How in the world you are going to win any battle if soldiers question orders? ANY orders, even those that soldier may deem idiotic. Soldier does not see the big picture, commander does. How in the world you are going to send them to kill and die if they don't obey you completely and totally?
  
  I am not saying if this is good or bad, this is just the way any army is. It can't work any other way.
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  shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Misha.. can I ask you something? x
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  bgamallposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  International law requires that you question the ethics of orders. It is a requirement, Misha, not an option.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't care what national or international laws say, I think for myself.
  
  Any army where soldier is allowed to question the orders in any other way but how to fulfill them better is bound to lose.
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  bgamallposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Misha, lots of folks obey orders in the commission of war crimes. It happens all the time. Many don't understand what the war is being fought about, and that they have been lied to by their leaders. Bush and Cheney lied about Afghanistan and Iraq. Does that really surprise anybody?
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Soldiers following orders are not war criminals, even if the underlying reason for war is criminal.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, whether or not they are war criminals may depend on what they were ordered to do.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please explain
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lets remember WW2 and the Nazi's, who claimed that they were 'only acting under orders'- We hung them.
  
  Yes Armies function on obedience, however that only protects you when you win, if you lose, or if a new administration decides to change the rules, then ALL military personnel are still liable for their actions IF those actions contravened the Geneva Convention on Human Rights, or the UN Treaty on Human Rights.
  
  Ignorance is no excuse in law, especially in the case of war crimes.
  
  Right now in the UK a snow job is going on the try to whitewash the fact that Blair and Brown and company knew that there were NOT and WMD in Iraq, and that they joined a spurious war.
  
  They will get away with that because the US does not want to drag this to the table of scrutiny, however IF for any reason President Obama had taken the stance that he would move against the whole Iraq war, then conceivably all those involved in government that started the war would be held liable for it, and in THAT instance ALL the actions taken by our respective troops would have been subject to scrutiny, and saying 'I was only acting under orders' would simply NOT wash as a defence.
  
  My father admitted massacring whole villages in Burma during WW2 with unofficial sanction by the British military command, but we won, so nothing happened, except he lived with the guilt all his life.
  
  The same happened in 'Nam, for the same reasons, but those acts were vilified because America seemed to lose that war.
  
  Ovid said:
  
  Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
  
  The same applies to wars and war crimes.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Get with me when a legitimate court rules that war crimes have been committed, until then its just a bunch of bullshit to talk about.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My recollection is that U.S. soldiers and their leader, Lieutenant Calley were tried for war crimes for their slaughter of civilian villagers at My Ly in Vietnam. And of course Germans were tried and convicted at Nuremberg despite their defense that they were merely following orders.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Its not the orders but rather the acts!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It can be either or both in my opinion. Here's what Wikipedia had to say about the shameful My Lai massacre. Apparently Lt. Calley was the only one convicted. He was convicted of murder.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was talking about subordinates being ordered to do something, the officer may have committed a crime but those ordered unless they followed the order are not committing a crime. Make sense?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Works for me.
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  Wayne Orvisburgposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is that little ditty about lawful orders though. I'm with ya, but just saying.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you are right about that. I thought about making my response more complex and including that, but I figured that wasn't really what bgamall was saying. Unless I misinterpreted, he was saying that if the reason for war was criminal then the soldiers participating in it were war criminals.
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  WriteAngledposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is known as the Nuremberg Defense. It was not accepted by the US, UK, French and Soviet judges, for example:
  
  Alfred Jodl - Chief of the Operations Staff of the High Command of the German Armed Forces. At Nuremberg he claimed it was "not the task of a soldier to act as judge over his supreme commander." Found guilty on all 4 counts. Sentenced to death by hanging.
  
  The Judgment given against Jodl included:
  
  "...... His defense, in brief, is the doctrine of 'superior orders,' prohibited by Article 8 of the Charter as a defense... Participation in such crimes as these has never been required of any soldier and be cannot now shield himself behind a mythical requirement of soldierly obedience at all costs as his excuse for commission of these crimes."
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you are right, but that's really not what bgamall was saying and that is what I was responding to.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nazi Germany?
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  Webmatronposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not all German soldiers were tried as war criminals, although a good number of those captured by Russia were treated as such.
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  Hmrjmr1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Same with Afghanistan. The military were told they went in to get the Taliban who allowed Bin Laden. But the real reason was to build an oil pipeline to Halliburton investments in the caspian sea. The Taliban, and it was reported sparsely, went to Texas in 1997 and refused to allow Unocal to build the pipeline. That was motive for 911 and an illegal war in Afghanistan.
  
  Pardon me but I have to correct some of this revisionist history, Bush canceled no contracts in Iraq the Iraqi government did as did the UN on the Oil For Food Contracts since Saddam Huesien corrupted them and they were no longer applicable; and too date no American Company has received and Oil Field Services Contract.
  
  The Pipeline in question is a LNG pipeline and once again halliburton does not own wells of this type they provide services to them, which will not be affected since they are based on days of well head operation not product withdrawl. I would suppose following this logic those who fought in World War II also were war criminals fighting fro (name the commodity or the place)
  
  I find it hard to comment further as I am certain what else I'm likely to say would get me banned , I would just point to your last statement and ask who the fool really is...
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  SimeyCposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My first thought was that 'How could a hitman write a hub on here. Obviosuly I didn't see the connection to Professional Soldier - and I'm sure there's noting wrong with the content.
  
  But from my reaction, the title will be misleading....
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again, I agree the title 'My Time as a Professional Hitman' would have been misleading...
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Our military or shall I say THE military are not considered "professional killers", this is inflammatory to what people DEFEND a Nation.

Just because, someone who serves in the military...doesn't classify them killers. It classifies them as Defenders.

That's the distinction you're not getting.

Yes, the TITLE is misleading.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Calling a soldier a 'professional killer' may be considered offensive to some soldiers, it is, however, I believe an accurate statement.
  
  But thanks for flagging it and bringing it to the attention of HubPages staff, I guess we'll have to wait and see what they decide...
  
  what do you think about.. 'My time as a professional soldier a trained governmental killer. ?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you were trained and empowered to kill by your employers,and did so, then I think the hub title was completely accurate, if on the other hand you were in the catering corps, it could be misleading, but then I guess you could still be accurate, dependent upon your hygiene standards!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're tone with me, is absolute uncalled for.
  
  First off, I didn't flag your hub to begin with. And, secondly, I don't work for HubPages and I can see the accuracy of your title insinuates "Military" personnel are nothing but a bunch of professional killers.
  
  It's the perspective you're trying to present that makes it unpresentable. And, if you're too pig-headed to see it. It's not a surprise.
  
  If I were to write a Hub about being a Soldier of the Military, then the title would be more along different lines.
  
  My Time As Soldier In The Miliary works just as well, if it's not available, then I suggest you learn to be more creative.
  
  Either way, you need to seriously get over yourself.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again you assume too much, thank you for playing...
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  AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do have to say I agree with what you have stated.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If a soldier is not a professional killer, what is he ?
  He's paid to go to war and kill the enemy. If not ,how can he be able to defend your country ?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe your assumption that a 'Professional Killer' is synonomous with 'A Hitman' is what leads you to that opinion.
  
  Had I titled it 'My Time as a Hitman' I would agree, that would be misleading...
  It is not however misleading just because my use(correct use) of the term 'Professional Killer' is not what the term means to you.
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe your military is not considered as "professional killers" by you, but that doesn't mean they aren't and in fact they are considered to be "professional killers" by millions people around the world. You might ask where? Well in all those places around the world where you were 'defending' your nation.
  
  And how paradoxical that is, in the last 60 years the U.S. has 'defended' itself probably in over 20 different countries, but never on its own soil. In the matter of fact not even on its own continent.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I say again, if you haven't read the hub... how do you know it is about soldiers?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen a lot of "inflammatory" stuff on HubPages. Controversy is one of the things that keeps the site going.
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marcel285posted 14 years ago
I agree, the title would be correct. But probably a bit too 'out there.'

How do you feel about the people you killed? Did it change you?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course killing someone would change you...unless you have the emotional make-up of a rock...IMHO.
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thirty nine years since Nam.
  Every one of them,like it happened this morning bro.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be better to call me son... I was born in the war, 1966.
  
  I might have lost my biological father there, I have never met him or any of his side of the family to know. I know his name and that he went into the service and that's it...
  
  Of YOU I am proud...so very proud...
  
  Thank You for not giving up, on the country that betrayed you.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
I just read that hub. I didn't find anything wrong with it.
but some people around here are very bigoted. who knows who reported you and the staff thought it had to be flagged.
Maybe they should read the whole hub before flagging.
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  Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It seems to me more and more that the First Ammendment is "encouraged" as long as IT IS "politically correct"
  
  So much for the freedom of speech and the ones who still believe it existes
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Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago
Honestly I'm not surprised it was flagged. When I was researching microtrends I came up with a study that reported that 1% of 18-24 year olds, in certain areas, expected to be snipers in the next 10 years. Of course in the military. But that's a huge microtrend. I really thought of an interesting hub to write about this trend and the influences of war, television shows, gaming and what came first. Especially after the navy snipers helped rescue the merchant marine captain held by pirates. I wanted to call it "Hey Mom! When I Grow Up I'm Going to be a Sniper."

But deep down I knew that I was pushing an envelope and was somewhat misleading, so I stifled myself and went back to kitchen wares and Christmas ornaments.

But you are undoubtably braver than I am. And have the credentials that I don't have to write knowingly about the topic.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
All soldiers are trained to kill. If not they're not soldiers.
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Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago
Mike it is an inflamatory - especially when we are at war. But you probably knew that when you wrote it.

I agree with tantrum that soldiers are trained killers or they wouldn't be soldiers. And they wouldn't stay alive very long.

I also don't like it when the Army tries to market itself as a scholarship program to kids. Because bottom line you do have to be ready be killed and to die if you are a soldier today.

But I don't believe that is all our soldiers are. That they are doing a great many other things as well today.

I think any title with the words "Trained Killer" will generate a great deal of controversy and heat.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which is exactly WHY I chose the title.
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  Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mike how do you know who flagged you hub? (It wasn't me, I promise.) I think it's starting a healthy debate. And if you can take the heat, all the more power to you.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
Being trained to kill and getting paid for it makes one a 'Professional Killer'...does it not?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It does. I agree
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  Ghost32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As a former soldier myself, I also agree. Yes, we (military personnel) ARE in place to DEFEND our nation...and we do that by KILLING if necessary.
  
  Those who doubt that (including HP staff if applicable) have likely not served in the Armed Forces. I recall with great clarity what happened when a young brother-in-law of mine joined the Marines against heartfelt advice from both his father and me. Dad hadn't served and I had, but we both knew our guy. He'd not been in Boot Camp many weeks when he wrote home in shock because, "They're training us to kill!!!"
  
  He lasted about four months before they mustered him out as unfit for service.
  
  If your appeal to Staff goes nowhere, there's always another option. For example, that's a great title for a full length book--and I don't doubt you could fill the pages. Random House (or whoever) would be unlikely to object to that title as misleading. I see it more as ENLIGHTENING.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You for serving...
  
  ...and for your words here.
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  Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've visited Gettysburg and Normandy and seen the cemetaries near the battlefields. It's impossible to think clearly and not agree with you. But I think we like to sanitize what we ask our soldiers to do.
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A Texanposted 14 years ago
What if you have been trained to be a killer and are not a soldier? I am such a case.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the case of 'Law Enforcement', 'Sailors(seals)', Spies I would still classify them as 'Professional Killers'.
  
  The 'Hitman' the criminal killer for hire would be the misleading title.
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You forgot a small group of very, very well trained killers!
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marcel285posted 14 years ago
From what iv'e seen about people who have been trained to kill, in movies based on true stories, books, and documentaries, part of the training is to disconnect emotionally.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Soldiers don't disconnect emotionally. They connect emotionally with the idea of Nation. and then they kill to defend it.
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Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago
To defend us, soldiers must kill. And sometimes it's not clear who to kill. They are put in horrible situations. But I can't call them Trained Killers. I think only a soldier has that right, if he so chooses to use it.
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  maven101posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nelle...That is a very thoughtful and cognizant comment...For all of us that served we thank you...
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sunforgedposted 14 years ago
Military personnel are professional killers the morals and ethics involved has no relationship to the meaning and etymology of "kill" or "professional"

Kill: to cause the death of an organism, or the act of doing so.

Professional: Expert and specialised knowledge in field which one is practising professionally

Who is qualified to question Mikel anyway? He is writing from personal experience!

Defend would be misleading:

defend: drive danger or attack away from

Of course, killing during the process of defense may be necessary...but its a kill nonetheless.

Your flag should be overturned, its a good title and its "inflammatory" nature should lead to good traffic
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank You, I am very impressed with your take on this. (because you agree with me has nothing to do with it...(grinning))
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
What is the problem with calling a soldier a professional killer ???
Stop with hypocrisy and bigotry!
He has to be to defend a country !
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's called political correctness. It's America, baby
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OH ! I'm sorry. I'm from Latin America.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, it's quite different
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  Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My generation has still not come to grips with Vietnam and the way soldiers were treated when the returned. Especially the descripton as "Baby Killers." And the riots in the streets, and Jane Fonda going to Hanoi. So anytime this topic comes up, all sorts of pain and memories come spewing forth and it's very hard to have a discussion.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Letting it out is the only way to cure it. Pushing it under the carpet just creates more and more problems...
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  Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We've been letting it out since 1968. It's so polarized that no amount of talking ever makes it better. Now Americans are determined that that painfl divide will never happen again. At least that's my take on it.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  IDK Nelle, you know better of course, it's your country. I am just approaching this from the position of my own life experience.
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you people always keep saying that your soldiers are defending a country? To defend your country implies that you have been attacked. Has it ever occurred to you that you are the one attacking other countries?
  
  Let me quote you 'stop with hypocrisy'.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not American! Argentina haven't been attacking anybody !!!
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry for the confusion, I thought for a second that you might be another brainwashed American. In my 5 years there I realized that people have different opinions on many issues, like religious, political, economic, racial, educational, etc. However there is one thing that no one questioned - the U.S. Army. Everybody is blindly supporting them and is admiring them as some great, noble defenders of the nation.
  
  p.s. Haven't you attacked good, old, jolly boys from Britain in the Falkland war, that just happened to be camping down there?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  something is wrong with your hormones ?
  Are you feeling bad or something ?
  Are you lost ?
  Something is very wrong with you.
  I feel sorry for you. you must be a very sad person!
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  Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I was just sarcastic when I said that you attacked Britain in the Falkland war.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because they been brainwashed into believing it, pretty much like we were brainwashed into believing the same shit back in the USSR.
  
  But in this particular case I think Tantrum is just trying to be polite, she is not from the USA.
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Dolores Monetposted 14 years ago
I don't see what's wrong with an inflamatory title. It draws attention. I don't like to see misleading titles, but a bit of showmanship might not be the worst idea.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
If the hub is flagged, it's flagged by HP. they are the only ones that can do it.
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Audreveaposted 14 years ago
I like the title. It cuts through a lot of the euphemisms and feel-good rhetoric and says, 'this is what war is'.

It's not deceptive and as long as the content isn't encouraging people to do anything unlawful, I don't see the problem.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
I dont 'Know' who flagged the hub, I assumed it was Cags because he was mad at me from an earlier forum thread, and he was in this one seconds after I opened it...Telling me how it was correct to have been flagged, (he didnt have enough time to read the hub in between the time I posted this thread and he responded with his opinion of the hub, which to me means he had already read the hub...)

I do admit that is a big assumption my part.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your action here makes no sense. Since, I already told you that I hadn't flagged it. I don't visit your Hubs. For the simple reason - you have nothing of value to offer, as in objectivity, since I already know you from the forums.
  
  You mock me? Of what kind of moral character do you think you are? It's obvious, philosphy and psychology, doesn't play a huge role in your life.
  
  I find it unappealing that you mock me for no good reason, except to show how foolish in moral character you truly are.
  
  I couldn't have possibly read your Hub, as I stated above.
  
  You're right it was a HUGE assumption, and you willingly try to disgrace me, trying to destroy my credibility, so you can think better about yourself?
  
  I am honest in everything I do and everything I do is to benefit humanity.
  
  So, with that said. You can sit in a corner and suck on your thumb, until the blue moon rises. It doesn't really matter.
  
  Unbelieveable. Enjoy.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since you have never read my hub, how is it that you can say with such ferver that it is a mis-leading title? Not knowing the content of the hub?
  
  Being caught in a lie once, proves you to be a liar.
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IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years ago
My stepfather helped design special spy software for the air force back in 1969. He was not a "professional spy", he was not a "professional" of anything. He was a US Airforce soldier.

Your argument is weak in that regard.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The title doesnt say 'My time as a professional soldier, or professional airman' it says ' MY time as a Professional Killer' how does what job your father did make my title inaccurate?
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Randy Godwinposted 14 years ago
I think the title is apt. Soldiers, as well as many citizens, are professionally trained to kill if the circumstances require it. The title should be allowed.
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Dolores Monetposted 14 years ago
It also wasn't salacious in that you didn't say, like, 'killing is fun' or something weird, nor were you suggesting that people ought to go out on a killing spree or anything. I think some people are just a but touchy.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
And i'm talking about any soldier, not only American !
you are very ..... You can fill the blanks !
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
thank you Misha. Yes, I was being polite with a fellow hubber who got his hub flagged.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DON'T YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ?
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EYEAM4ANARCHYposted 14 years ago
I don't recall anything in the TOS against being inflammatory and I don't doubt that half the hubs currently published would be flagged based on that if it was.

Sorry the purpose of the military is to kill people or support those who do the killing. The rationalization they give you to make it easier on your conscience is irrelevant to that fact.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Do you think I'm stupid ?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nooooo... Should I?
  
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  you make me laugh!
  thanks !!
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That was the plan. Glad it worked
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Don't clarify ,that darkens
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Yeah!It look just like that !
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
I can't find the hub in question and I want to read it. What happened? Do they deleat a hub after being flagged?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They have 'unpublished' it, sorry if they allow me to re-publish it I will.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It depends on the nature of the flag but yes, usually it will cause it to be unpublished (not deleted).
  
  HubPages set the rules to protect its Adsense account and ours. Generally speaking, if your Hub gets flagged for a violation early, you should be grateful - because you've found out before Google sees it and decides to ban you from Adsense!
  
  In this case, I'm thinking this could be the problem:
  
  https://www.google.com/adsense/support/ … wer=105950
  
  https://www.google.com/adsense/support/ … wer=105954
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
Oh, that's just great! We are getting better and better at censorship!!!!!!!!
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Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago
Mike I would love to read this hub. So I hope that you can re-publish. I'm following you now, but I don't know if that will trigger a follower notification. Keep us updated and share your frustrations.
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  lorlie6posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I concur, Nelle, and hope to read this hub before coming to any conclusions.
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
I read the hub before I got to the forums. I think the title is appropriate and correct, can't see why it's a problem to anyone. I've read the thread here but still...he WAS trained to kill, he was tested to make sure he could and would, so where's the controversy?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think the same
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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
@ Nelle I will keep you posted.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago
Anyone willing to e-mail HP staff on my behalf would be most appreciated...
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would but I don't think they care what I think, why dont you email me your hub so I can read it.
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  Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you mean to tell us that HP will listen to one voice but will ignore the others?
  
  Is this another proof of democracy that we so needed?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Petra, it is a private business, not a government institution. There is no such thing as a free speech here. It is free until it starts hurting the business, beyond that it is censored.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mike, you do this yourself, they won't talk to anybody else about your hub.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Already did....twice... and changed the title, but it is still unpublished.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, do you work on Saturdays?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes don't they, they unpublished it on saturday and flagged it on saturday...Rougly two hours ago, I e-mailed them with in minutes of it being flagged, and soon after that e-mail it was unpublished and I sent another e-mail and haven't heard from them.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, they might have worked overtime LOL. I would not expect any response till Monday Pacific time.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe because it's Saturday?
  I hope you don't have to wait till Monday !
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would, but I don't think they like this kind of intervention.
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  KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is the comment that lead me to my conclusion.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  anyway, i hope they put it up again. i'd like to read a hub from someone who has been "in the trenches"
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  KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree Cosette.
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
I wanted to leave a reply yesterday concerning the 'do I ask forgiveness?' question but I'm not sure I did. To me, forgiveness is only something you ask for if you regret what you did. Despite the situation, yes, intent matters IMO. But if you don't regret it, if you think it was what the time and situation called for, the most you would say is that you don't think it was wrong but in case it was, will you forgive me? You haven't got it straight in your own mind, maybe you never will, it's not something easy to figure out.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well Said.
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Hmrjmr1posted 14 years ago
Mikel - didn't get a chance to read it bro' but those outside the BTDTGTTS culture have a hard time understanding it. Good luck with the retitle if you proceed that way..
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  A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Been there Hee, hee cracked me up!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, I love a good t-shirt...
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
I was going to email them but now you guys are making me nervous about doing that. Is it really considered a bad thing to do? Maybe I'll just email and ask if it's allowed first. Doesn't that sound cowardly and pathetic?
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
Why would you change the title Mike? I would not give in to their absurdity and arrogance even if they promis to feature the article.

I would fight for my right to express my opinion even if that may cost me permanent ban from the forum or termination of my account.

Do me a favore and send me (or better yet post her their e-mail) I just need one more proof of despotism since I had it with so much American "freedom"
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the e-mail
  
  Dear Mikel G Roberts, Your Hub has been flagged by our system as a violation of our Terms of Use. Deceptively Tagged/Titled/Categorized – Hub is improperly categorized, or contains misleading title and/or tags that don’t match the Hub’s content; possibly includes irrelevant/excessive tagging or keyword stuffing
  A link to your Hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/My-Time-as-a-Pr … nal-Killer Your Hub has been unpublished, giving you the opportunity to edit it and make it compliant with our Terms of Use. When you are ready to have HubPages review it again, please edit it and click the "Submit for Publication" button. We will then review your Hub, and publish it if it abides by our Terms of Use. You then get an email saying that the Deceptively Tagged/Titled flag has been cleared and the Hub republished. Please note that repeated violations will result in the banning of your account. We encourage you to familiarize yourself with our Terms of Use before publishing again: http://hubpages.com/help/user_agreement
  
  Sincerely, The HubPages Team
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Mikel, why did you decide it was about title? Could it be tags or category?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The tags are what ever pop up automatically when i write the hub, the category is politics and social issues...
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  livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yea, see the title doesn't go with the category so I doubt it was flagged because of content.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean it is a hub about the people hired by government to be the killers for their government...how is that not in politics or social issues?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then I would wait for their reply with clarification before doing any changes, seriously. They just got a new moderator and it could be her mistake, or - god forbid - they are trying an automated flagging system without telling us.
  
  Maddie is pretty reasonable person, wait for her response and then take it from there
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mikel, the tags are "suggested", based on the frequency of words in your text and are often wrong - NEVER just accept them! That may be part of your problem - delete any irrelevant ones and add your own.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  they are all words in my text, how do I know what is a relevent tag?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tags should be words people might look for when they're interested in the topic.
  
  So for instance, I have a Hub on how to volumize your hair. Some of the suggested tags are "shower cap", "coat strand", "go to bed". They're words I used in my text, but they're nothing to do with what the Hub's about, so I've ignored them.
  
  Maybe if you tell us what tags came up, we can help.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  training jobs job military team police partner professional sin soldiers shot teams shoulder weapon newbies needless trigger split seals negotiations told sailors spies shut up lethal ammo high-speed airmen war veterans forgive move makes move makes happy duty done back-up man active slot man shoulder machine pistols low-drag simunitions h&k mp-5s marine recon army rangers marine force recon final test
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mikel, can you see that a lot of those words have nothing to do with the SUBJECT of your article?
  
  I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing the RELEVANT tags are:
  
  military soldiers weapon sailors spies ammo airmen war veterans shoulder machine pistols low-drag simunitions h&k mp-5s marine recon army rangers marine force recon final test
  
  They're the only ones you should keep. Can you understand that words like "happy" "done" "high-speed" "forgive" are just words in your text, they're not directly related to your subject?
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  livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She's right on here. You would do better if you came up with 10 words or phrases that someone my search for to find the story you are sharing. Never let HP select your tags. Find the main theme of your story and plug a word or phrase that describes that theme into the google keyword tool, and it will suggest the most relevant keywords that you should use as your tags and in your headers.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no actually they are... maybe not some of the others but the ones you used for an example are...IMO
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm obviously not explaining well. You can only have tags that are RELEVANT. You can't have tags that are GENERAL. If I see the tag "happy" that doesn't tell me your Hub is about soldiers, so it's too general. Same with "done" or "forgive" - those words don't tell me what the Hub is about. You may be talking about forgiveness, or happiness, but that's discussing around your subject. Your subject is soldiers.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a hub about the happiness of soldiers and how to get/bring some happiness to them?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  my subject is the happiness, emotional care and mental well-being of soldiers and all other 'governmental' professional 'killers' that might be feeling like they are no better than a criminal 'hitman'.
  
  Hence the very appropriate(imho) title 'My Time as a Professional Killer'
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If that's the case,then your tag would be 'happiness of soldiers'. Happiness or happy on its own is too general.
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  sunforgedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A tag like "redemption" or "catharsis" would be general and relevant ...agreed that "forgive" and "happy" are too general to be helpful though.
  
  "You can't have tags that are GENERAL."
  
  Thats an iffy definition.. I highly suggest using "general" tags when relevant.
  
  A hub about "wrapping presents" could use the "general" tags christmas, holidays, birthdays, gifts and more specific tags such as "wrapping paper" and "invisible tape" ...
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, agree
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Sunforged, I was trying to find a simple English explanation since I felt I was having difficulty getting through - maybe made it too simple.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It sounds to me like HubPages needs to hire someone and put them in charge of the tags, if it is that crucial and important for them to be correct. Somene with training and experience in the adsense programs policies, especially if it is possible for there to be such a bad bad-side to an ignorant error do to inexperience...
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mikel, none of us knows whether the tags have anything to do with your Hubs being unpublished, we're just trying to educate you on how to use them.
  
  HubPages never used to suggest tags - you had to think them all up yourself. The suggested tag section is a service, and you'll notice they don't get added automatically - you have to choose them. They're just there to spark ideas. It's up to you to educate yourself how to use them.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Regardless, 1 new unexperienced hubber can cause the HubPages adsense to be canceled...That sounds like a critical system to me, why should they trust that system to ignorant inexperienced people right off the street, who may actually be people that work as 'staff' at a competing website?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mikel, you're conflating two different things. When you originally posted, you said it was your title which was causing the trouble. We were all guessing that it somehow contravened Adsense TOS for some reason - possibly an association with violence or weapons, which isn't allowed.
  
  Then you posted the email that said it was due to misleading tags or category. That's not such a serious problem and should be easily fixable. Unsuitable tags aren't going to lose anyone their Adsense account.
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  sunforgedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not very useful tags as far as organization and search engine optimization .
  
  But, I dont see any that should have caused an initial report to HUbs nor one that hubadmin should have agreed with in order to unpublish your work.
  
  commas would have helped though
  
  "forgive move makes move makes happy" ?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with this.I've been experimenting with tags in other account, and in some hubs a left all the tags suggested and some of my own, and no hub had ever been flagged for them
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  livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Mikel, sounds like it was flagged because of the category or the tags. I doubt that it was the title as there are plenty of hubs with titles that start with "How to Kill..." and there are plenty of hubs about serial killers. Just put it in the correct category, I would think it would be "writing" and probably not "jobs" lol.
  
  Anyway, hope you get it back up, I'd like to read it as a fellow vet.
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
Misha

We already know that profits will be the first and ONLY criteria for business. That is good and I do not dispute that, but do business has to observe the Bill of Right or are they suppose to run wild and do what they please?

Are the laws just for the rest of us?

We know we don't have a voice anymore and the last decission of The Supreme Court proves it, but when and where will it stop?
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Petra, private is private. If your guest does not behave to your standards, you ask him to comply. If he does not, you help him to the door. Even if your standards may seem ridiculous to others, you have every right to do so on your private property. The same here. It has nothing to do with profits, and has a lot to do with "private".
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
Hi guys,

I apologize, I was so furious, that I made a lot of spelling mistakes (but than again I am just a damn foreigner so please forgive me)
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sannyasinmanposted 14 years ago
Mike, I don't see anything wrong with the title of your hub. I found it intriguing and it made me want to read the article. I hope to be able to read it soon!
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
Their business, their rules.

I think it was wrong (not morally) because I think it was an appropriate title, that was the whole POINT of the hub, but it's up to HubPages. But Mikel should be heard since it's his work.
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
I still don't agree Misha,

You say "hurt the business" which I translate as hurting profits Later on you talk about asking guests to conduct themselves according to good maners.

Speaking up your mind is not bad maners as long as you do not make personal attacs. People may disagree with different opinion, but the right to express an opinion should be respected.

That's what I was talking about
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said "hurt the business" because I believe this is what guides HP rules. But when the rules are in place, they have all the rights to enforce those rules on their own territory - and they own this territory.
  
  It is not a public domain, it is a private property. We post here and communicate here because they allowed us to do this. They are free to revoke this permission at any time. It will be unwise to deny access to everybody, but if they desire this, they have all the rights to do so.
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cosetteposted 14 years ago
hi Mikel. something weird just happened. when i clicked your profile, it started opening this forum topic, then another, then another, and as fast as i closed one more kept opening. weirrrdd...

anyway email me your hub if you want. i would like to read it. my nephew just joined up and is going to boot camp soon. he is going to train to be one one those guys who disarm bombs, you know, like Sergeant James in "The Hurt Locker".
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Petra Vlahposted 14 years ago
OK Misha,

Now I get it. If you speak your mind at IBM or Microsoft they will terminate you because IT IS their company and they have a right to decide what individuals should think or say. GREAT!
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah. Microsoft or IBM have a different form of ownership. You can instruct your broker to buy their shares if you want to. Try to buy HP shares.
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KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago
Another thing you may have not considered is we were just introduced to two new HP moderators. It could be (not saying it is), but it just could be that one of them has flagged it and perhaps now that you've written them back, maybe they're having to consult a higher up for a second opinion. It's just an idea.

Personally, I don't think it sits very favorably on your part to start a thread in hopes of rallying people to contact HP on your behalf. HP isn't going to put it to the people to vote on and they aren't going to like be ganged up on. This is your battle, Mikel, not ours.

I do sympathize and I do wish you luck and hope that you are able to get it republished with the title you want.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure that was Mikel's intention: it was another poster who started encouraging people to rise up in support.
  
  Truth is, that's just going to waste the team's valuable time. I suspect the Hub has flagged a clear-cut rule and once we work out what it is, it will be fixable.
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  KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I made that comment after reading the entire thread from start to finish. I have gone back to read Mikel's original post and you're right Marisa, that isn't a part of Mikel's original post. However, I drew that conclusion later in the thread when he was encouraging someone to write HP on his behalf that had agreed with him. So, only Mikel can say if that was original intent. I apologize if I'm wrong Mikel.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The orginal intent was following the instructions of the 'flag' that was issued, to whit: create a forum post to contact HP staff to communicate the problem and seek a resolution...
  As I was unable to contact HP staff I requested help from anyone willing to contact them for me.
  
  Why do I feel like I'm explaining how it isn't my fault to my parents????
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks and I do realize that, IHMO what has occured is this:
  
  Cags flagged my highest rated hub for what ever bullsh** reason he could think of and the new girl in the office being the only one left for the weekend made a judgement call of better safe than sorry (unpublishing the hub) and we'll work it out on monday when the regular staff are back in the office.
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  KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Don't fall into the blame game. It really doesn't matter who flagged it. Anyone could have flagged it. You'll never know and it doesn't matter one single bit. It's been done and now your only concern should be how to convince HP to allow you to republish it. I agree with Marisa's analysis of the keywords. You have to think about what words someone would put in a search box that would make someone think your hub is exactly what they were looking for on the subject.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I DO KNOW< prison/law enforcement/military interogation training, and I'm very good at it. Cags has already been caught in the lie. Not that it matters, it is I guess our right to flag anyone we wants hubs for any reason we want...including petty childishness
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yoshi97posted 14 years ago
Being flagged and unpublished is actually a GOOD thing, though it doesn't feel that way when it happens to you.

Hubpages unpublishes any page that might violate Google's terms of service. And how is that doing you a favor, you might ask?

Well ... Google crawls websites constantly and when they find a site that violates their TOS they might ban your account ... indefinitely ... with little or no chance to plead your case.

Of course, what if you decide not to go with any ads ... just drop off the ads and you can post what you want, right?

Afraid not ... Even if you drop all of your ads, Hubpages still displays Adsense ads on your page on the sidebar and Google still holds them to their terms of service. As such, your actions then would possibly get Hubpages banned from Adsense if they didn't act.

And what if you post a title that goes against Googles TOS, no one does anything, and that title is then shown on all of the hubbers pages? Well ... then you could possibly be getting other hubbers banned as well (doubtful, as I think Google knows how Hubpages links sites and would not find fault with anyone for a link they didn't create themselves).

As such, the Hubpages staff aren't Nazis ... They're just doing their part to insure nobody loses their adsense account over something they can easily prevent via an email. Remember ... Google won't always give you a warning. Quite often, your termination notice from them is the only warning you ever get. As such, it's good to know that everyone watches your back here at Hubpages.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm reposting this because it's exactly what everyone needs to bear in mind.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  me too.. for the same reason...
  
  Thanks and I do realize that, IHMO what has occured is this:
  
  Cags flagged my highest rated hub for what ever bullsh** reason he could think of and the new girl in the office being the only one left for the weekend made a judgement call of better safe than sorry (unpublishing the hub) and we'll work it out on monday when the regular staff are back in the office.
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sunforgedposted 14 years ago
Without actually reading the hub..I would guess useful tags would be

Military
Armed Forces
Army
army Rangers
Marine
marine recon
Soldiers
War
Recon
Veterans
Training
Police
Seals
Navy Seals
Airmen

even this is rather lengthy..but as Im only guessing, something like "pistol" isnt useful...you may have mentioned "pistol" but is what you wrote somrthing someone who searched for "pistol" would appreciate finding?
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1. 73
  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not pistol but H&K MP5...
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  71
  sunforgedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would seem you get the point, not all tags are created equal and one should consider the viewer/searcher when selecting them. Not only will you be seen more but you will be giving less ammunition to those who may try and strike at you in petty ways.
  
  Best of luck, hope its republished on monday!
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KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago
Yoshi always has a way of saying just the right thing.
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saltposted 14 years ago
Alot of soldiers work as peace keepers too. Which is a combintaion of skills in conflict resolution and military management. The Australian army symbol of the rising sun actulaly has the meaning of preserving life, not to kill.
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
I still can't see what the problem with Mikel's hub was. The title was right for the hub, most of the tags were relevant since it was about the emotional conflict of being a killer as duty.

The email isn't enough information to figure out what the problem is so he'll have to wait for clarification. The threat of being banned if this continues is a bit frightening, I wouldn't resubmit it until I knew what was supposed to be wrong with it.
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