LT COL VICTOR FEHRENBACH
I'm sorry, I really didn't make my point clear. This Soldier stood in front of President Obama and shook his hand. The President promised the Soldier he would help him. Lt Col Fehrenbach was due to thrown out of the Military at the beginning of this year. I want to know if he was thrown out or if President Obama kept his word to the solder and helped him stay in the Military.
And how can Obama keep his word if he cannot change the policy? It would take an Act of Congress to change this policy: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/654.html
It is completely wrong! Serving 18 years defending our Country and then our government wants to discharge him for being GAY is absolutely ridiculous! He has defended our Constitution put his life on the line has not bothered a soul nobody has complained about him at ALL for bad conduct or misbehavior shame on our government for being so cruel. The entire Country is not straight and there are people who are closet gay and lesbian who yell it is wrong to be this way, I see them all of the time in Church and then there cars our parked outside a Gay or Lesbian club. So tell me who calls the kettle black? Anyway I hope that he is still flying and defending our Country with him on our side I certainly would feel safe.
Rules are rules. He knew the rules and he threw the dice and lost. Theres no do overs, if you're gay and you tell you know the price, sorry. He knew what the score was and he took the hit now he has to live with it and thats the same deal for all of us.
I honestly disagree when someone is honest that is the best policy and sexuality honestly does not have anything to do with how you handle your job responsbility. We have nurses who are gay and lesbian, we have doctors , lawyers, cashiers, cooks, chefs, car salesman, truckers, construction workers, policeman, fireman/women so those people who are honest should also be terminated? Could you imagine the jobs that could not be filled immediately because of someone's sexual orientation? If we told our Commanding officer we were straight we would not be told that we had to be discharged or terminated so unfortunately it is not the same.
It may not be right but not everyone is as open minded as you are. It's even worse in the military where we have to think about unit cohesion. Soldiers and wariors have to have each other's back. Just go read Mikel's new hub on being a "professional killer" to get an idea of that cohesion.
Right or wrong, this man put his lifestyle above his career which meant he put his lifestyle above his fellow wariors knowing good and well the risks not only to the morale of his unit but also to his career.
Having served in the military I can tell you there is ZERO tollerance for racial discrimination among the troops but they would turn their heads if someones sexuallity was in question and leave it up to mob rule.
In the civilian world we're protected by the Costitution. In the military you defend the Constitution but you're limited in your actions by the Uniform Code of Military Justice UCMJ. You don't share the same rights as a civilian.
So it's not about brave or cowards. It's about lifestyle
So if all the cowards are Hetero, and the brave ones are gay, you fight the war with the cowards, because they have the right lifestyle.
What you are saying is 18 years of being a good soldier is trumped by what someone finds out about you? There's nothing different about him. The only thing that is different is what a few out of many in the military might think of him. Is that the military you think this country should be proud of?
What I really want to know is if President Obama kept his word to this Soldier.
LOLOLOLOLO show me a coward in war. Tantrum it's about the policy that is in place and has always been in place. If the majority of Americans wanted it changed then why hasn't it been changed?
Nobody is suggesting that the Lt. Col was not qualified or a superior fighter pilot. All I said was that he knew the policy he new the risks yet he continued and then he was outed and faced the consequences.
Did I get it right? You think UCMJ is bigger than Constitution? And at the same time you pretend to be a Constitution defender?
No, the Constitution is bigger, its just that when you join the military here in the US you sign a contract with the government that allows UCMJ to supersede your rights under the Constitution. That's what makes our military a special breed we're selfless defenders of rights that we will only get to fully share once we're out of the military.
I'm no lawyer, but is it that the UCMJ supersedes the Constitution, or do you waive certain of your Constitutional rights in order to conform to necessary military protocol.
The UCMJ is an absolute document... In joining the United States Military one forfeits his/her Constitutional rights and is then taken under the control of the UCMJ.
The UCMJ replaces the rights of military members with the absolute tyranny that is required to get sane people to charge into machine gun fire knowing they are going to die.
the phrase 'catch 22' comes from the descriptions of the UCMJ.
I understand I open-minded but because a person is Gay does not mean that all of them are trying to coherse each other,that is a complete facid. I guess I honestly do not understand why heterosexual men are so fearful of homosexual men? Men or women who are completely in tune and understand there own sexuality are not bothered by another person's sexual preference.
I understand the ZERO tolerance against discrimanating due to color which unfortunately does not have any relevance on this subject those are to opposite discussions.
What I am trying to make people understand is that a person's sexual preference does not have anything to do with how they perform a job. My father MAY HE REST IN PEACE served during WWII he told me there were men in there who were GAY nobody ever said anything so I would personally have a person be honest with me then lie and find out later, if they are truthful then I respect them even more. The rules are ridiculous and apparently when people serve in our military it is best for them to lie then to tell the truth, but then again that is what our government does anyway.
He was outed, he didn't break the rules.
So one has to be a hypocrite to survive ?
nice society you have there !
We let ours rights go away. We are required to allow our employers a say in our off work activities and it's more strict in the military. We chose to be a country of rules and we have to obey them, not for the protection of the individual but for whats good for the majority. We're not Holland!
We volunteer to serve and we know the requirements. We are taught about the UCMJ and understand why we have it. Let me tell you something our soilders are the bravest most honorable soldiers in the world. They and their families sacrfice everything for the worlds freedom while being picked at by the liberal cowards from other countries. You don't have to like our country but show our soldiers some respect. If you're happy being a coward just enjoy it someplace else.
If you make people lie, then you can't trust them afterwards.
How can you trust someone that lies out of fear ?
What this people have learn from society ?
I'm not saying anything. It's all in the video.
I'm giving my opinion of this case, which can be resume in 1 word: Hypocrisy.
It looks like that, is what rules society.
Who decides who's the worst or who's the best? If you don't like the rule then they're evil vile people but if the rule benefits you then everyones a hero, hmmm.
MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY AND IN THIS COUNTRY THINK, DONT ASK DONT TELL, IS WRONG. The majority of the Military has to suffer and lose good people because a few in the military might be uncomfortable with who someone has sex with. It's a STUPID way to run a military, business, country or anything else.
Do you have some poll or stats to prove a majority of service members think its wrong?
What in the world made you think I was here to entertain you?
People talk statistic when they have no argument.
Try this out!!!
Common sense tells me nine out of ten people you talk to in the United States Military thinks like the rest of the United States Citizens.
Hmmmm, Friendly you are usually wrong and I suspect you are wrong again.
Show me the statistics of how many times I'm wrong!
If this is the only time then its 1 out of 1 that you're wrong! But the good thing is its not, all anyone has to do is go read your first hub and will see another instance of you being wrong, just cause you want it dont make it so.
Well...I wasn't completely wrong. The Republican Party is still disintergrating like the WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST!!!
No it isn't! Have you taken a look at the Democrats lately? Where do you get your news?
Aww.. it's just a little Glitch. We'll be alright, Thank you.
That's why it's important to me to know if Obama stood by his promise to help Lt Col Fehrenbach stay in the Military. I'm still hoping I wasn't wrong.
Personally I think he should have been allowed to retire with all of his benefits, he devoted a large piece of his life to the service and the service should respect that!
Not good enough! Interpreters that were in Afghanistan comunicating with the towns people and helping to keep our Soldiers safe; were thrown out of the Military. Our Soldiers were left without proper intelligence to do thier job. That is STUPID and DANGEROUS. There is no other military in the world that would do that!
Not good enough? What else do you think he is deserving of? I am talking about one person not every gay dude or dudette in the military! This is why your side never has any victories, some one finally agrees with you on this and you say it isn't good enough! Fine I'm glad they booted him out it is bad for moral!
Sorry I'm not attacking you. But, every gay dude and dudette in the military deserve to be there if they perform their duty. I wonder...how many dead gay soldiers are buried in Military Cemetaries? What should be done with them?
I am a former Marine, my niece is a lesbian and a staff sergeant in the Army. I would want her to be able to stay in the Military if she is ever found out, and I don't know if she isn't found out, but she has shown an ability to thrive in a male oriented society irregardless of her sexuality, and I am very proud of her!
you tell them hun, tell them! Anyone brave enough to lay their lives n the lines for me is worthy of all my honor and respect and respect.
With love, Kerry
I like you friendly but I don't like you making your bedroom habbits my buisness. I've never talked to you about bondage because thats just to personal. I've never discussed rubber sheets and motor oil with you either thats also personal. I never bring up my affection for turkeys and how they make me sweat, thats personal too. I never stand up for those of us who think Twister is a modern version of Kama Sutra. So lets just say TMI is just that TMI!
I have to BOW to you Sneak. I'm impressed!!! I haven't done any of those things...but, Right On Dad!!!
Yeah Well step off friendly!
Dad! Dad! Alright now! Don't make me slap you with donut cushion!
You just look like everybody's Dad. I say it out of respect.
I dont like what you say most of the time, but, I think you're a good guy.
He-he, not touching on the topic, but your common sense misleads you. The mere fact that some of them are in the military and some of them are not proves that the former think differently from the later
And, how do you think the rest of the United States thinks? This I have got to see.
I think the majority of the American People still believe in what this country was founded on... FREEDOM, AND EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW.
If that's all you got, then I suggest you dig deeper. Just a thought.
What would Ollie say about LT COL VICTOR FEHRNBACH?
http://www.nragive.com/ringoffreedom/nr … nding.html
It was a poor decision and the ruling was a pathetic attempt by a bunch of bigots to make everyone happy. Fortunately the US is moving away from such narrow thinking but there is still a fair way to go and a lot of "old school/protect-tradition thinking" that is going to have to retire before real changes are going to be made.
Sorry, good people are being thrown out of the Military now! Throw the bums out and keep the people that are there to serve this Country!
The real Issue in the whole don't ask don't tell debacle is this:
The United States has put into place a system of deterence, for the defense of the nation. That deterence is based upon a belief by possible enemies that attacking the United States is foolish at best because we have the greatest, strongest, most devistating military in the world. The soldiers that are the backbone of that military force are the best and toughest fighters on the planet. Mess with them at your peril...
1-The very smart people, know being Gay doesn't make you less good at being a talented fighter.
2-The 'Honor' system is a fundemental base to the code of conduct for Officer and Enlisted...(forcing a Gay man to lie about being Gay was a violation of that code)
So behind closed doors a deal was made...
Since the common perspective of gay men is/was one of a 'weak' girlish man, a man that could not inspire fear in a 12 year old. A fact that would be absolutely devistating to the military's image as they saw it. Decided to offer a compromise: Don't tell me your gay, I won't ask if you are... and we will both pretend this is ok.
That way the military got to keep the great 'gay' soldiers that had always been there...
And the Gays that were smart enough to read between the lines, got the satisfaction of knowing that they were appreciated by their leaders, and that those leaders acknowledged the existence of very talented and capable soldiers and sailors and marines, that were also Gay.
If a Gay man told, or was caught, the other part of that secret deal was they suffered the consequences for that failure. The one of being caught, of telling.
It seems he didn't "tell" until he was "asked". I don't think the military would get rid of this guy for liability issues and it appears from the outside that he did not violate any "don't tell" policies. I guess if they(homosexuals) have to be around, this guy is respectful.
@ And how can Obama keep his word if he cannot change the policy?
And Obama should have known that and not given his word if he didn't have the power to do what he was promising.
You're right, Obama said a lot of things he couldn't possibly do on his own.
He could just issue an executive order and then let the courts settle it.
I dont get the paper and I don't have a T.V.
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