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Is there room in society for those who committ sexual crime

  1. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    I have just conducted and published an exclusive interview with a convicted sex offender, this is about educating the public about the realities of what is goin on.....begging the question....is there room in society for those who committ sexual crime?

    1. manlypoetryman profile image71
      manlypoetrymanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What right does anyone have to impose their will over your own...my answer is "No" to your question...there, Irish Observer! As far as society goes...What is the most advantageous thing for society: rehabilitation  of said sex offender, imprisonment, be rendered sexually inoperative...what are the ramifications for a sex offender...? A few years of prison...and probation...and they are back on the streets...What is the track record for those that are back on the streets...Its' not a good one...I know that for sure. I re-emphasize..."No one has the right to impose their will on someone else". A solution...the answer is just "dangling" out in front of the sex offender...and could be removed! If you really want to know. I kid...just a little...but hasn't a sex offender created a heinous offense...in the first place!

    2. falcon64 profile image60
      falcon64posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Actually they have no room in our Society. But what shall we do, their existence continues growing.

      1. profile image0
        china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Just a snippet from 'over here'. I followed a news story in the English version of the China Daily - a teacher in the south of China was accused of sexually abusing one or more small children. I read bits of his 'confession' that matched what the kids said. He did not appeal and they shot him.

        My feelings are mixed. There is the issue of miscarriage of justice, the death penalty generally BUT I feel happier in total than I did when we eventually found that the 'new guy' in our English village was a relocated predatory sex offender.

    3. Stevennix2001 profile image81
      Stevennix2001posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      yeah, there is.  it's called prison, or jail.  sometimes refered to by its slang terms, "the slammer" or"the joint."  or there are special clinics for it,  as sex addiction does count as an addiction, which is where Tiger Woods has been for the last few weeks.  enough said.

    4. Evan G Rogers profile image82
      Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This question is ... kind of disturbing...

      "Is there room for X in our society?" reminds me of Nazi Germany. The public decided that there was no room for Jews in their society, no room for homosexuals, no room for dissenters, no room for anything by the Aryans. I know this is not what you are implying in your question, but the same logical conclusions can be drawn!

      Who are we to decide what constitutes a sexual crime? Of course there are clear cut cases - rape, forced slavery and the sort - but what of 'sexual crimes' like prostitution? If two parties can consent to something like Sex-for-Money, is this a crime? Should the government (our 'society') really have the ability to remove the people just because there 'isn't room'?

      Is there room in our society for people who commit violent crime? is there room for people who commit non-violent crime? is there room in our society who commit crime in general? --- Crime is crime by definition: i think if you wanted to get at the heart of the issue you should a bit more clear on your question. Maybe something like "is there room in our society for rapists" or "is there room in our society for those who kidnap children and then sell them into prostitution".

      Should we execute them (i assume that this is implied if there is no room for them in society... either execution of banishment)? yeesh! What of the other PC goal of 'giving people a second chance': just because someone commited a sexual crime once, are we to assume that they can't learn from their punishment? If we assume that people truly can't learn from punishment, then 'is there room in our society for the legal system'? Should we give them a sort of 'three strikes and you're executed' choice? I'm not sure! but this might be a more productive discussion.

      Personally, my own opinion, there IS room in our society for sexual criminals. IF somone commits a violent crime infringing on the rights of another, there should be punishment of some sort, but i think banishment, execution or other ways of 'removing them from our society' might be a bit extreme.

    5. yenajeon profile image80
      yenajeonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      NO NO NO NO NO!
      NO. Especially so in America, because the therapy system they have attached to the courts/jails are awful. They don't take the rehabilitation seriously at all.
      Sex offenders just say what needs to be said to get out and re-offend.
      NOOOOOOO!

      1. bonny2010 profile image59
        bonny2010posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        its the same in australia when the child molester getsout the only one who has any rights is the child molester and its the taxpayer who pays for his protection ironic isn't it...

        1. profile image0
          lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          WTH bonny, this world just ain't right.

      2. hawkvet1 profile image61
        hawkvet1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It is actually, in most cases, the offender who seeks to meaningfully participate in a program he expects to benefit him, and the system that fails by providing a "treatment program" in prison that is more about making people fail because they don't say what they're "supposed" to say.  I'm talking about Iowa...one of the toughest on sex offender states in America.  If the program was geared toward people internalizing better and healthier thoughts and behaviors as are the public programs, instead of more punishment, the federal recidivism statistic for SOs who recommit sex crimes would even be lower than the average 3% reported by the DOJ...the public would be way better protected from harm, too, if legislators really cared about preventing sex abuse instead of handing out more and more punishment after the fact.

    6. Caterino profile image60
      Caterinoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Not at all, no room for any of them.

    7. qwark profile image60
      qwarkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Irish:
      Your question is too broad to be answered one way or another.
      There are varying aspects of "sexual abuse" that brand one a sex offender for life that must be considered i.e. an 18 yr old boy has consentual sex with his 16 yr old g/f. the parents charge the boywith "Statutory rape," and the boy is found guilty and is branded a "sex offender" for life! He may serve time and be branded a "felon" which only compounds his future problems....and potential problems for society as a whole.
      The "sexual offense" must be considered in ref to the harm it caused and the punishment must fit the crime.
      In many countries, what we deem to be a sexual offense is common and acceptable behavior.
      Your question considers all sexual offenses. All sexual offenders cannot be lumped into your broad category as it relates to being ostracized and treated as an outcast for life.

    8. profile image0
      cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this



      what IS going on? neutral

      p.s. i'm glad i didn't interview this person. i would probably hit him over the head with my voice recorder...

  2. Sa Toya profile image86
    Sa Toyaposted 7 years ago

    sounds highly interesting even more so to my inner law graduate...I just might run off to read it now big_smile

  3. donotfear profile image91
    donotfearposted 7 years ago

    Repeat sexual offenders should be on an island together with no transportation. Then they'll figure it out. That's the punishment.

    1. profile image0
      Kerianneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There are no doctors who are willing to perform surgical castration for free to help a convicted sex offender once they are released.

  4. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    manlypoetryman, hear what your saying, the difference between Ireland and the US is that sentences here are generally between 3 and 10 years for sexual crime, I know in the US sentences can be heavier, the problem for our society is that people are being freed, indeed many never get prosecuted, and I would rather know where they are and have society in a position to monitor and protect.....hanging them from the trees is fine but that is not what is happening, two recent reports produced in ireland show that thousands of known child abusers (ie religious) have never and will never be brought before the courts, yet they live in the community....

    1. manlypoetryman profile image71
      manlypoetrymanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Child abusers...are the scum of the Earth...IMHO!

      1. AnythingArtzy profile image82
        AnythingArtzyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        AGREED Manly we just had a local man who held a high position in one of the local power plants here in town get 70+ years and I don't think all the charges have been brought yet for years of molesting boys. and you know what. even with the evidence of a video tape of a naked boy in the tub with this guys naked reflection in the mirror holding the camera along with many things on his computer and around 60 testimonies so far fromn the abused, people are still in an uproar over the convictions so far.  Makes me sick. He should be castrated like they used to do. tie a string around it till it falls off. very painful and slow so I'm told.

    2. bonny2010 profile image59
      bonny2010posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      child abusers should be given a frontal lobe operation if they want to pretend they have no control of their urges (in court and to social workers] then make their excuse the real thing - no good castrating them as its been proved the biggest perverts in history are those who have been castrated- apparantly they get their jollies wherever they can  -and in the most horrible ways.

      1. profile image0
        Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Oh dear.

        I think it's apparant you have already had a frontol lobotomy performed on you.

        What little is left of your miniscule brain will be donated to science on your passing, they will surely marvel at how spectaculary small it is.
        Paedophilia is not about pretending to control sexual urges, for many, it's about an expression of those sexual urges, just like any other sexual orientation.

        If you were a heterosexual female, and society was disgusted by this fact, so much so, you had to undergo tests and 'psychological reconditioning' to a more acceptable sexual orientation - would you be so grossly ignorant as you are now?

        1. profile image0
          china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Maximus - I have to say that the gist of what you are saying is not wrong - but abuse is not the way to convince anyone of the fine points of your argument. Emotive subjects always bring a violent response as you are unlikely to convince an abused person to 'think' about fine points, any more than you would be the person to discuss the death penalty if your child had been murdered. ?

        2. Ohma profile image79
          Ohmaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Why must you continue to verbally attack people who do not agree with the crap you are shoveling. Pedophilia is not now and never has been a "normal sexual orientation". If I were you I would consider worrying about the old but true statement "Me thinks he doth protest to much"

      2. bonny2010 profile image59
        bonny2010posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        This is for Maximus 591
        My opinion is my opinion.
        your opinion is your opinion.
        Everybody is entitled to their own opinions.
        An adult understands this.
        Little kids should be seen and not heard , so I suggest you go to bed now its past your bedtime.

  5. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    Sa Toya it is interesting, my Masters degree was on Criminology and so I am fascinated by all that is going on in society.....I can have my lighter moments but I can be very serious when I want....this is not about 'traffic' as suggested earlier by someone, I dont even get the whole traffic thing...this is about sharing ideas and thoughts for me....

  6. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    agreed manlypoetryman, the problem is that they are in our community, we only see a few appear before the courts....we have it up to our neck here in Ireland.....but what is the answer.....

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I think you will find Ireland has a low rate of sexual crime as opposed to other countries, I take offence at you saying my country is up to it's eyes in sexual crimes !!

      1. profile image0
        china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Didn't I read couple of years back about the same situation in the American Catholic church - with the same paper over the cracks resolution ?

  7. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    donofear, yes, but thats not going to happen as we all know, so are we to monitor and protect....or warehouse offenders...

  8. profile image0
    Deborah Sextonposted 7 years ago

    Yes, prison society

    1. profile image0
      Kerianneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If the male penis and testicles can be taken off and "prison girls" can be made from male sex offenders, they will know what it feels like to be be sexually overpowered and abused by a man as I did as a homosexual in prison.

      And just so you know, there are no free clinics in America that perform surgical castration for free to help the convicted sex offender once they have gone free.

  9. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    how is this problem dealt with in your country....do people who committ sexual crime get released...

    1. profile image0
      JeanMeriamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I’m in Canada. It’s pathetic. They get virtually no time. And they get double time credit while waiting for trial. There was a case in the local paper recently where a man molested both his daughters their entire lives. His sentence was 2 months probation and he got time served for waiting 6 months to go trial, so really there was no punishment.

      And the judges always listen to the poor me I was abused story, and lessen the already useless sentences.

  10. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    falcon64 this is the very topic I am trying to tease out...this is about education and knowledge....how do we deal with the problem.....

    1. falcon64 profile image60
      falcon64posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      aha...your asking me?

      1. falcon64 profile image60
        falcon64posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If I got a power,I will electrifying their memories from bad into good.smile

  11. Dame Scribe profile image59
    Dame Scribeposted 7 years ago

    I don't think anybody charged with sex offence should be above the law, including Religious leaders hmm look at Manitoba letting that Coach walk away with nothing after he physically manhandled n most likely left psychological scars on his 16 yr old babysitter neutral society is slowly degrading starting from the top.

  12. theirishobserver. profile image62
    theirishobserver.posted 7 years ago

    Dame scribe, this is a small country, but the problems in relation to sexual crime are enormous, mainly because seem people i.e. The Catholic Church and those in positions of power seem to be able to get away with anything....

  13. profile image60
    NOT GUILTYposted 7 years ago

    What happens if you are one of those convicted who is still fighting to clear his name? I am already branded in society as a sex offender - but before that I protected the community. How can I go from a protector one minute to someone who should be removed from society. I have fought and fought this but appears people are ignorant to what they don't understand - well I was sold down the river because a female police student told people that I sexually assaulted her rather than say she had consensual sex. For thos who do not understand the law - consent in sexual assault is a pivotal poit - in my matter the complainant said she did not consent - the jury found she did consent and then she withdrew consent - how is that possible when the only evidence of consent came me. Does that mean the jury believed us both??? And the most disgusting part, her best friend provided me with a statement four years after the event stating she had lied about a great many things - and what happened, they threw it out. Dont think it doesn't happen - I have investigated two false complaints of sexual assault and there have been numerous exonerations due to DNA. Innocent until proven guilty - what a joke - how about guilty and you will be labelled for all eternity. So I will walk tall and continue to fight and with the level of comment on this page, if I was standing in front of you - you would have stoned me to death.

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
      TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That means the jury determined that she said "yes" at first, then later said "no." The law decrees that when you hear the word "no" or "stop" or "I don't want to do this anymore" you stop. Period. There is, in the law, no "point of no return."

      No judgments here...I'm just telling you what the law says about that sort of thing.

      It's a touchy subject. I've seen ppl have to be publicly registered as sex offenders because they went to a prostitute--another man had to be registered as a sex offender because he stole panties (brand new ones) from a retail store and told the police he intended to wear them. Why on earth they should have to be registered is beyond me.

      At the same time, there are also certainly plenty of people who deserve it.

      The situation is compounded by the fact that many Western countries (I cannot speak for the Eastern ones) encourage (or at least don't discourage) attitudes that make certain types of sex crimes "acceptable."

      While my gut says "castrate them" my mind knows that that actually doesn't work because usually sex crimes have more to do with power and control than sex or urges. In many cases the perpetrators of these crimes have been abused themselves...I'm not sure that any punishment (per se) is effective other than as retribution for pain. I'm probably biased, but I highly recommend serious, long-term counseling in addition to any imprisonment, registration, etc.

    2. Chaotic Chica profile image83
      Chaotic Chicaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Not Guilty~I am truly sorry that you have become subject to the unjustice of the "grey area".  Please do not take this the wrong way, but simply being in the career field of a protector does not mean you are automatically incapable of misunderstanding mixed signals or outright disregard for another's personal desicion.  The law does state that even if she consents at first-the minute she says no, if you do not stop, it becomes rape.  That does not mean, though, that if she consents and decides later that it was a bad idea then it becomes rape.  Next day regret is not rape and too many women seem to not understand that.
      With that having been said, being the woman accused of crying rape when it did in fact happen is the worst possible feeling.  It makes the woman angrier because she is being judged harshly for the bad acts of others before her.  Since the laws changed making it easier to report the crime, it has made it easier to falsely report.  That has created a whole subculture full of guilty rapists claiming the chick lied and non-victims claiming sexual assault.  The grey area is the worst place to be. 
      In my case, I had physical proof of his absolute guilt.  That did not stop others from speculating.  Months after the court martial found him guilty there were people who were not around to know me, only the story and they were defending the innocence of this guy they knew for three weeks!  Truly, if you are innocent, I feel terribly sorry for you, but I have little sympathy and much cynicism towards men convicted of rape.
      Accordingly, it is impossible to say that there is no place for sexual offenders in society when society convienently creates a place for them.  They do not often stay there as long as they should if they go at all, but as long as we walk this earth, there will be sexual offenders.  It is the cold, harsh, terrible truth and the best we can do is offer help to victims and harsh punishments for offenders, including those that falsely report!

  14. Mamelody profile image60
    Mamelodyposted 7 years ago

    Personally I can't stand anything to do with sexual violence or offenses.. Left up to me I would do the appropriate punishment.. CUT IT OFF!!

    clearly sex offenders don't know how to use the wonderful tool God gave 'em so cut it off, ship 'em to some god forsaken island where they too get the ultimated punishment of being abused sexually too...

  15. profile image60
    NOT GUILTYposted 7 years ago

    I sincerely do understand your point - but if you think for one second false claims do not occur, think again. Here is just one recent example,
    "A WOMAN who triggered a major investigation after claiming she was the victim of a sex attack in Carlisle has been charged with perverting the course of justice.

    The 22-year-old is expected to appear in court following an alleged sexual assault in Cavendish Terrace, Stanwix, on January 4.

    She answered police bail yesterday

    The charge against her states that between January 3 and March 21, with intent to pervert the course of public justice, she made a false allegation that she was subject to a serious sexual assault which instigated a major police investigation during which four people were arrested.

    That, the charge adds, had a tendency to pervert the course of public justice contrary to common law.

    Detectives’ investigation into the claims was one of the biggest manhunts seen in Carlisle in recent years.

    That probe involved some of Cumbria Police’s most senior detectives in a special incident room staffed by between 30 and 40 officers.

    A series of public appeals were made to try to trace the people the woman said had attacked her."

    So we have a 22 year old who stated she was seriously attacked, the attack serious enough for a crime team to be put together. Now what would have happened if she blamed some poor bloke - he was convicted (and yes it is easy to lie and convict someone) if it was up to you his appendage would have been removed, sent to an island and sodomised. But hang on - then we find out this alleged victim lied - and there have been a number of DNA exonerations as well.

    What is the answer? We have a system now that protects individuals that lie - and has made it easier for them. It isn't about belittling or denigrating a victim - it is about truth - punish the guilty ones yes - but lets keep it real. The system is flawed and unreliable - why do you think there is so much involved in jury selection???

    So read my posts - see life through the eyes of a falsely accused man and from there, lets see if there is still going to be appendage removal.

  16. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Very interesting subject, it is clear that there are people who lie and it is clear that there are people who tell the truth, I think it is up to the courts to decide who is guilty and who is not..and hopefully the courts of appeal will deal with false claims if someone is falsely accused and convicted.

  17. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Tatto Guy, I am new here and so I hope you dont mind if I comment on your comment, I read in the Irish Times this week that the Pope summoned all the Bishops in Ireland to Rome to address the decades of abuse of children who were in the care of the Catholic Church, the Bishops themselves admit that this meeting was extraordinary and has never happened in any other country, thousands of children were abused, It appears to me that Ireland is in real crisis with this issue.

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes but that was related to a few members within the Catholic Church not the good decent people of Ireland. I am well aware of the ins and outs of the sexual abuse within the Catholic Church, I live here but disregarding that sex crimes are low in Ireland, particularly in Northern Ireland.

      I of course don't mind your comment or anybody elses, tis a public forum. Plus most of the sexual abuse within the Catholic Church is only coming to light now about abuse that happened decades ago. Any crisis has since been addressed !

      1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
        TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        While I understand your point here, Tatto Guy, I would like to point out that collective trauma of such magnitude cannot help but leave an indelible mark on an entire generation of people in your country (which, by the way, I LOVE and is the home of my ancestors)--unfortunately, this mark of pain will also be passed down into generations. The "ground zero" of the event may be long passed, but its shockwaves will have unanticipated reverberations for many years to come.

        Check out Bowenian Systems Therapy for families or Adlerian theory (I think) and you can understand more about how this works.

        1. profile image0
          TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Fair point my friend and one I will take on board.

          1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
            TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            smile

            Learning about some of those things really opened my eyes to the way pain...percolates through time and space. We CAN help be a part of the healing process, though...and that's what matters!

            1. profile image0
              TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I agree Spider and your comments make a lot of sense on a topic one threads lightly on, methinks the first night I met you on the Forums I misjudged you, tis a pleasure to meet you.

              1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
                TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                It's nice to meet you too!

                I would never have guessed that you misjudged me at all...I don't remember you having any negative comments for me or anything? (Although I did notice that you had taken your follower-ship away sad )

                I can't remember now what that forum was about...In any case, I'm glad to have won your confidence again. I might be opinionated (okay okay I AM opinionated), but I am also (usually!) open to others' opinions. smile

                1. profile image0
                  TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Hey opinionated is good and is a breath of fresh air on these Forums, as for my ship the Wild Imagination, the name may have changed but the Captain and the Imagination will always remain, anyways you have a new fan !

                  1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
                    TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Yay! smile

  18. profile image60
    NOT GUILTYposted 7 years ago

    But what if you are the one that was lied about and spent 18months in gaol for something that did not happen. I have tried every avenue of appeal and no one wants to help. I have and will always be a law abiding citizen - I have a good job and I am trusted as that is always how I have lived - but I still have this stain on my name and I am fighting to get rid of it.

    1. profile image0
      china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This is as big an issue as sexual abuse itself. There are many cases of reported rape etc that have been proved to be false accusation, but many many more that have not been cleared because of the lack of motivation for anyone to fix it - other than the party falsely accused. someone very close to me in the UK has had a similar accusation in their court battle for access to their own child. It is OK in this case because it was all thrown out of court, the issue however remains, he has not been CLEARED of anything - and his accuser was not even reprimanded - even though it could easily have resulted in no further contact ever, or even a prison sentence. It is about time that vindictive accusations attracted similar sentencing, ie the false accuser punished and maybe branded a liar, maybe a lie offenders register ??  I am aware of the problem of helping victims to speak up etc, but . .

    2. H.C Porter profile image85
      H.C Porterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      In your case-if you were falsely accused, I am sorry. There are horrible people everywhere, and lying about such an offense is a crippling offense in itself. Lying about rape should be criminally prosecuted.
      But people who violate others-admit to the violation-or the evidence of the assault is overwhelmingly apparent. Seven years in prison and classes seem to be a slap on the wrist compared to what the victim will have to live with forever. Statistics show, child molesters and rapist have a high rate of repeating their crimes after released from prison-but the law continues to release these monsters over and over again. Makes me think victims of Sexually Based Offenses are 'A Dime a Dozen'?

      1. profile image0
        Kerianneposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yes they are released from prison, but there are no free clinics, no free hospitals to check into and undergo surgical castration for those convicted of sex offenses.

  19. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Not Guilty, you say you are innocent - we only have your word for that, the courts have found you guilty, until such time as your conviction is overturned you will remain guilty...thats life....

  20. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Tatto Guy, surely the report that I read in the Irish Times states that this was not only about the Catholic Church, but was about, police officers, social workers, solicitors, barristers, politicians involved in a mass cover up of child abuse in Ireland, contrary to your view "these happened decades ago" surely Priests such as Father Daniel Doherty only committed his crimes in recent years......simply beacuse crimes have not been brought before the court dont mean that they are not happening right now.....

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Ok put that figure in a percentage of the population of Ireland and then show me that percentage in comparison to other countries, if it's higher you will have convinced me ok !

  21. profile image0
    shinujohn2008posted 7 years ago

    Anyone can become a sexual offender. It is unpredictable , and included people from low to high status of living.

  22. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Tatto Guy, I am simply posting what I have read in the Irish Times, how would you ever calculate the numbers involved, Bishop Martin said yesterday that in his catchment area alone there were over 2,000 children sexually abused by religious, there are 1100 persons on the sex offenders register since 2001, for the 85 years (before 2001) since the Irish Republic was founded there was no register, in total 900 people have been brought before the courts for child porn, and the list goes on.....surely Ireland is at least in the premier league of sexual offenders, in terms of numbers.

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Nope, the UK beats us hands down, but here are the official worldwide stats and the European stats, not a sign of Ireland but I do agree in principal that one person sexually abused is one too many, tis a pleasure debating with you, do check the stats below though, tis an interesting read ! Oh and welcome to Hubpages !

      http://www.gmu.edu/depts/unilife/sexual … ts2005.pdf

  23. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Tatto Guy, agree with you 100% that UK has a major problem, I think we both agree that one case is too many, I read the Times and Irish Times every day so I am well up to date on the news, great chatting to you.....

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You to my friend, I look forward to your first hub !

  24. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago

    They can always join the priesthood.

  25. H.C Porter profile image85
    H.C Porterposted 7 years ago

    I read through some of the responses-but I am just going to comment on the question asked.
    If you rape someone, and you are proven to be mentally competent and then guilty by a jury of your peers, I believe you should be first in line for execution. You have destroyed a life-your life is of no more value to society. Rapist and Child Molesters do more damage than murders, to their victims. Why? Because they leave their victims alive, with irreversible memories and scars that destroys the victim’s life.
    Here are some of the Damages Done By Sex Offenders to their Victims:
    -The feeling of shame from the experience
    -Embedded fear in the Victim
    -Lack of understanding
    -Loss of self worth
    -The developed mistrust for others
    -Suffering from depression and anxiety disorders
    -Withdrawing from society
    -Often Victims Attempt or Commit Suicide
    -Some become Sexual Predators themselves
    -Many turn to drugs to comfort their pain
    -Post Traumatic Stress
    -Reoccurring Night mares and Flashbacks
    I guess overall a Sexual Predator is a Murderer, one who torments the victim long after the attack is over-slowly killing the person by first violating the body and then destroying any mental or emotional well being a person has. Surviving the rape itself is one thing-it is what you have to survive after the rape (yourself/thoughts and memories) that will destroy you.

    1. Chaotic Chica profile image83
      Chaotic Chicaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      H.C.~all I can say is AMEN!! You have absolutely nailed it!

  26. waynet profile image49
    waynetposted 7 years ago

    Sex offenders should have their genitals burned off and their brains labotimized and then just throw them in a pit and sod human rights!!!

  27. Maddie Ruud profile image81
    Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago

    I just have to poke my head in to say:

    H.C Porter, I think you're completely wrong that murder is worse than rape or molestation, and I think the way you repeat over and over again that it destroys lives is dangerous.  What if a recently raped person should come upon this thread and read that their life was ruined?

    Sexual assault is a terrible thing, with many lasting consequences for the survivor, but it is not a life sentence to misery and pain without relief or redemption.  There is help and hope and happiness to be had.

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
      TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Maddie for a passionate and well-reasoned response. While I can agree with H.C. that it certainly is life-changing (and that many victims do indeed end up suffering from PTSD, suicide attempts, etc.), I don't think it can be repeated enough that rape or sexual assault is NOT the victim's fault AND there is help and hope; indeed many sexual assault victims use the event as a springboard that strengthens them to help other victims and speak out against the attitudes that continue to allow it to happen (i.e., not reporting, male "conquering" attitudes, etc).

      Not to expose anyone's deep-rooted stuff, but I can't help but wonder if H.C. speaks from some kind of personal experience (in which case, she certainly does NOT have to air it here). If that is the case (and even if it's not) {{{BIG HUGS to H.C.}}}. I appreciate your candor and the depth of your emotion, but I'd hate to see someone as smart and strong as you actually believe that there could be no more hope after such a thing--where there is life, there is hope.

      1. H.C Porter profile image85
        H.C Porterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Deleted

        1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
          TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I am so sorry for your pain. All I can say is that in my opinion YOU get to decide what makes meaning for you. And it sounds like you have a great start doing so. I know the scars will always be there, but I also know that there is enough of YOU that the scars can become small...and almost invisible. smile Many many blessings to you, H.C. for your courage and your strength.

    2. H.C Porter profile image85
      H.C Porterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I understand that-
      But I did not say that murder was worse-I concluded with Rapist are in a sense Murderers and the torment is continued after the attack.
      Perhaps saying that a life is ruined is not the correct thing to say. But the damage done to a victim is harsh and lasting. Yes there is help available. Just like people with anger issues can find guidance in help groups and counseling-a rape victim can seek therapy. But the damage caused by a person as selfish as a rapist is damage to the victim who is the one with the lasting scars.
      Can you overcome much of the hurt caused from rape? YES
      But can you erase the damage? NO
      It is a forever changing life experience-that CAN (NOT WILL) break someone.

    3. Chaotic Chica profile image83
      Chaotic Chicaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      H.C~ what you have concluded with here is what I grasped from the begining.  Everything you listed is accurate.  All these emotions and reactions are experienced by a victim.  Not all victims will go through every emtotion, but the point is still made.  Yes, life goes on and, if you allow it, it gets better.  Regardless of how good one's life is now, there will always be that part of her in the back of her mind that gets reminded of it now and again as something happens or someone says something that brings it back.  The pain, shame, anger, all of it.  It never actually goes away, it just gets easier to deal with.  In a sense, it is murder.  That one traumatic event will irrevocably change his/her life for better or for worse.  Yes, we can choose to make it for better, but the victim is now sentanced to living with that man and that memory for the rest of their lives.

  28. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago

    It seems to me that it may be a mistake to classify all rapes in a single category of sexual assault. Some rapists attack children. Some lurk in parks and jump out of the bushes and physically assault a passing jogger, threatening to kill them if they don't comply and sometimes killing them after the rape. Others threaten the victim with a gun or knife. Others use drugs or alcohol to enable them to accomplish their sexual assault. Last comes "date rape," possibly the most common form of rape of all. Date rape should not be condoned or excused. It is a crime, but, depending on the circumstances, one that should not be dealt with as severely as other types of sexual assault.

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
      TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I would have to strongly disagree on the date rape thing (although I think that child rape should be punished MOST harshly, more so than others, so I think we probably agree on that), Ralph. I don't understand the logic behind treating date rape as a lesser type of rape. Indeed, I'm afraid it seems that attitudes just like that help make it, as you pointed out, the most common type of rape.

      I find that kind of rape just as disgusting and coercive and destructive as the other kinds of rape you mentioned. The ultimate end is the same, and should be punished as such...In my humble opinion, which, of course, you are able to take with a grain of salt. smile

      1. profile image0
        china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I have to take issue about this one. Any form of rape is abhorrent but if there is no definition between the rape of a child and a date rape where the 'date' has at least consented to be in the company of the rapist then there is little measured justice. Date rape is the most common because it is where people put themselves most commonly in danger, we must of course or we would not do much dating.

        1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
          TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I can understand what you mean, but at the same time...since when does "consenting to be in someone's company" equal "it's okay to assault me"? Again, I must confess that I believe it's attitudes just like that that make date rape more socially acceptable. When people understand that no means no, regardless of the situation, perhaps things will get better in this regard.

          The reason I find child rape so abhorrent is that the child is incapable of giving consent, or even understanding fully what is happening. But the more I think about the date rape thing...the MORE disgusting it seems that one could rape someone they know...I need to get out of this thread...it's beginning to disturb me.

  29. Maddie Ruud profile image81
    Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago

    I agree with you, TheGlassSpider.  Rape isn't less serious just because a guy buys you dinner beforehand.

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
      TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks, Maddie smile I think you said it better than I did!

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I guess I understand where you're coming from. However, there is a pretty clear distinction between jumping out from behind a tree with a knife and raping a stranger and a rape that occurs, for example, in the woman's apartment after a few drinks and a hot make-out session on the couch. I'm not saying that this is not rape and should not be punished, only that, depending on all the circumstances, it should be distinguished from other types of rape. Another type of conduct which is distinguishable from other forms of rape is statutory rape, when a boy of 18 has consensual sex with his girl friend who is 16 (or whatever the age of consent is in the particular state). This is considered rape and can land the boy on a sex offender data base if a school or parent presses the case. I point out these distinctions in response to the comments saying that rapists should be executed or castrated, etc.

      As in Ohma's comment just below.

      1. Chaotic Chica profile image83
        Chaotic Chicaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Ralph~Maddie & TheGlassSpider have my backing on this one and Maddie, it really could not have been said better!  Child rape is beyond abhorrable, hands down.  Date rape should never be concidered 'not as bad' just because 'she put herself there'.  How chauvanistic is that? He decieves, manipulates, and attacks her but she was in his company by free will so that makes her at least partially responsible?  By virtue of already having gained her trust it makes what he did that much more offensive.  In truth, being raped by anyone is awful. A stranger doing it makes it hard to go out alone but she has the benefit of being able to acknowledge that she didn't 'bring it on.'  A friend or acquaintance doing it makes it hard to let anyone get close to her and makes her forever second guess everything she has done or will do.  Getting over the betrayal of anykind by someone you trust is hard.  When the breech of trust comes in the form of rape, it becomes and impossible task.  Doable, but darn difficult.

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
          Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You are putting words in my mouth, and your logic escapes me. It simply doesn't make sense to equate all rapes with violent rape by a stranger. I'm not excusing any type of rape, only pointing out that it takes various forms some of which are more heinous than others--from child rape followed by murder to avoid discovery and prosecution, violent rape by a stranger and so forth to Romeo and Juliet consensual statutory rape. I don't have any particular expertise on rape law, but I think it does distinguish among different circumstances both in the charges and the penalties.

  30. Ohma profile image79
    Ohmaposted 7 years ago

    Yep concrete walls and bars with a big huge lock! nice little room bed, bathroom, and meals served to them.

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds like a great life, ya fancy trying it for 30 years ?

      1. Ohma profile image79
        Ohmaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Since I have not committed any crime that warrents such a life I will have to pass.

    2. profile image0
      Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. profile image0
        china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Have to agree with this balanced 'way' of looking at things. From my understanding of things paedophiles are mentally ill. I might (do) like young girls, but my idea of young is way above any legal age of consent, maybe older than some 'girls' on here! If somebody gets excited by children they are definately not 'normal' are they.

        The same kind of thinking applies to quite a few different types of rape, not all of course.

        1. profile image0
          Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Psychiatrists would want you to believe that paedophiles are mentally ill. They want you to believe they have a 'disorder' - it helps to make society feel better about what it believes to be a sick act, knowing 'these disturbed people' have a certifiable disorder.  I mean, only a 'crazy' would abuse a small innocent child, right?

          Sadly, there is growing evidence that many paedophiles simply have a sexual preference for prepubescent children. This creates problems. On the one hand, society 'needs' for it to be a mental disorder in order to feel better... but on the other, if it's not a disorder but simply a sexual preference then how does society deal with that?

          1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
            TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You can try to defend such a thing all you want: There is no such thing as a sexual preference for young children. There is no biological reason for a person to ever desire a child, since a child could never procreate. Profile after profile of pedophiles shows that they have been abused themselves--this abuse leads to all sorts of twisted, abnormal desires because the victim is unable to deal with intimacy with an adult. It is not normal, it IS a sickness due to trauma and ought to be treated as such.

            1. profile image0
              china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              IF it was treated properly as a mental illness at the very least it would stop them being jailed with other offenders who then fantasise together and make thier problems worse. I cannot agree that it is not a mental illness - if it caused by issues in previous life then what is the difference between it and PTSD, or even PMT as that is when my former wife liked to abuse me verbally!

              1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
                TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                "IF it was treated properly as a mental illness at the very least it would stop them being jailed with other offenders who then fantasise together and make thier problems worse."

                This is KEY; however, many practitioners find it difficult to work with sexual offenders though (esp. pedophiles), and there is a great dearth of the kind of practitioner who can value that kind of client--unfortunately for the field and these victims who are continuing the cycle of abuse, the most important thing to treatment is the development of a healthy therapeutic relationship in which the practitioner can offer unconditional positive regard to the client.

                "if it caused by issues in previous life then what is the difference between it and PTSD"

                This is a very good question. It would depend on the client's other symptoms...but perhaps there SHOULD be a trauma-related diagnosis specifically for pedophiles who have been victims of severe trauma.

                1. profile image0
                  china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  So - is a rapist mentally ill?    There is no doubt that he must be socially inadequate, or socially disfunctional and isn't that mentally ill ?

                  1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
                    TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, a rapist is very likely mentally ill; although everything has to be taken case by case. He or she most likely has symptoms plus impairment--the definition of diagnosable mental disorder--or else they couldn't be called a rapist. The ability to transgress such a clear boundary with another person is highly indicative of mental disorder.

                    However, social dysfunction or social inadequacy does not mean one is mentally ill.

                    Someone who is a rapist is more than just socially inadequate; there are plenty of people who feel-or who even are-"socially inadequate" but who do not warrant a diagnosis. They might not have many friends, or like going out in public much or whatever, but they're still capable of leading their lives, taking care of responsibilities, and not assaulting others.

      2. Ohma profile image79
        Ohmaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Are you a parent or grandparent? have you ever been raped?
        You should know your audience before you start spouting feeble attempts at normalizing the most horrid criminals in the world. There is nothing normal about any person who would with no regard to their victims commit rape or molest of a child. Whether they commit these crimes because of mental illness, anti social personality traits or just plain stupidity it is all the same.
        I do not care how redeemed or rehabilitated they claim to be I do not want them anywhere near my grandkids.

        1. profile image0
          Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think you'll find you're the ignoramus here.

          Given, between spending the afternoon with a paedophile or an ignoramus, I'd choose the paedophile any day. I just find them so.... so... enlightened in comparison.

          'Normalizing the most horrid criminals in the world'  <---- Your statement. Lets examine this a little more closely, shall we? For instance, would it surprise you to learn that most paedophiles are not clinically insane? Would it surprise you to learn the vast majority are typically normal people just like you (assuming you are normal) who just happen to desire prepubescent children? Some may have a personality disorder and some may find establishing relationships with adults difficult, but for the vast majority, paedophillia is a sexual preference, not a sexual deviance. Curing paedophillia would be like attempting to cure homosexuality... it was attempted in the past and did not work.

          This, of course, does not mean abuse of children by adults is acceptable. But remaining an ignoramus as you so clearly are, by dehumanising them through ignorance and an irational intolerance of that which does not fit within the realm which you consider 'normal' - you only fan the fires of ignorance that society and the media have been doing for ages.

          Rightly or wrongly, paeodophilia is here to stay. The question that now needs to be asked is, how does an enlightened society deal with it?

          1. profile image0
            sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            The only way possible prison or a secluded colony that they must stay in for the rest of their lives.

            Who cares what got them from point A to point B, their there and they can't live among us because they can't be trusted.

            I don't know what motivates your mouth but you should try and get a handle on it. We don't have to do anything least of all condone deviate sexual behaviors. You need to take a look at someone else's moral compass your's is broken.

  31. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    There is a room in society for everybody. May be behind the bars, but still some room. smile

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I admire yer views my friend !

  32. mikelong profile image82
    mikelongposted 7 years ago

    "Celie: A Slave"...............it all depends on who is determining "crime"....

    A key aspect of the code of chivalry was the right of noble men to sexually conquest common women.....it was a matter of sport and privilege....

    I believe that a wife who is compelled to perform sexual acts for her husband is a victim of sexual crime....

    Compelled sex, within or without the marriage, is a crime in my book....

  33. kephrira profile image59
    kephriraposted 7 years ago

    This is a really difficult question, but I don't think people should see it in such a black and white way of just saying hang em all as soon as you see sex crime.

    Here is an interesting example - in the UK if a woman is too drunk to consent to sex then it is considered to be rape. But if a man is just as drunk, that (for obvious reasons) cannot be used as a get out of jail free card for raping someone. But this leads to a strange situation where if a man and a woman go out and both get blind drunk, end up having sex, and both wake up in the morning with no memory of what happened then despite the fact that they both did exactly the same thing the woman can have the man arrested for rape, imprisoned, and put on a sex offenders register for life.

    It's all very difficult, but with sanything like this I think you do have to try to be reasonable and balanced rather than just getting hysterical and wanting to mutilate and kill people.

  34. Flightkeeper profile image79
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    I have a hard time believing that a guy that drunk can get it up.

    1. profile image0
      TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Trust me, one can smile

      1. Flightkeeper profile image79
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        TattoGuy I knew you were superman wink

        1. profile image0
          TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ssssshhhh just between you and me drink makes me more, well ya know but tell nobody !

          1. Flightkeeper profile image79
            Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            lol I have to tell now Tatto, women need supermen.  Don't be surprised if there's a line in front of your door in two days!

            1. profile image0
              TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Ok I have been reading all this with interest, back in the 70s if ya were 17 and u made out with a 15 year old it was actually common place but these days ya can go to jail and be called a Peado, what to hell has happened with the world ?

              Thing is back then life was so simple, you loved, you made out. I personally disagree with a 17 year old making out with a 15 year old being a crime, I call it 2 kids growing up !

              1. Flightkeeper profile image79
                Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I don't think it's considered a pedophilia if they're both under 18.  I don't think they're talking about that, they are talking about a situation where the guy is much much older and the girl is underaged.

                1. profile image0
                  TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I know but I have heard of cases in the UK these days were an 18 year old has been charged with sex with a minor aged 15, and has gone on the sex offenders list, see I see this as wrong !

                  1. Flightkeeper profile image79
                    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Well, that 18 year old is now considered of age and has to be more mature and responsible, it's part of growing up considering the situation.  I would think that the judge would make an appropriate decision, that is if your laws allow it.

    2. Stevennix2001 profile image81
      Stevennix2001posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      actually that's very possible.  because when i was in the air force, a guy told me once that he was so freaking drunk, that he was literally s**t faced and had blue b***s too.  however, the girl he was with looked exactly like pamela anderson, pre surguries, and i won't go into details any further as i wouldn't want to get in trouble here. however, lets just say he brags saying he had the greatest night of his life.  enough said.  therefore, it IS POSSIBLE a man can be that drunk and still get it up if you know what i mean.

      1. profile image0
        Maximus591posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Being intoxicated simply coloured his mind to the experience. There is nothing remarkable in what you are saying. Drugs colour peoples minds as does alcohol. Whether he performed in a way that was verifiable (something that could be tested) is quite meaningless. Because, in his mind, coloured by the effects of alcohol, he was a bionic stud!

        Please offer more intelligent commments in future my friend, because you wouldn't want me to think you were a little bit simple now, would you?

        1. Stevennix2001 profile image81
          Stevennix2001posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          okay, i'll definitely keep it in mind.  I'm just basically reiterating what my friend told me, as an example that a man can still perform sexually when drunk.  that's all. lol.

      2. Flightkeeper profile image79
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Stevennix, of course it's possible, especially if that man was a college kid, but I guess I'm too jaded and don't really believe what that guy would say lol  I don't think his performance made Pam happy

        1. Stevennix2001 profile image81
          Stevennix2001posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          lol.  that's true.  however, i'm sure he must've done something right as he told us that what happened later week when he slept with her, he hooked up with that girl again along with her twin sister and their girl friends.  Each one looking like a model too, as he showed us their pics.  yeah, they were all very attractive, and he wasn't too shy to boast saying he had sex with all of them at once later that week.  lol.  so he must  have done something right.  lol.

          1. Flightkeeper profile image79
            Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hmmm! Are you sure he wasn't still drunk when he told you this big_smile You know most women don't like to have to share 1 guy among so many wink

            1. Stevennix2001 profile image81
              Stevennix2001posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              i don't think so.  we were still at boot camp at the time, and the drill sergeants wouldn't allow alcoholic beverages on the base.  lol. although he could've been making the whole thing up just to impress the hell out of all us.  lol.  however, you got to admit, it was on heck of a story.  lol.

              1. Flightkeeper profile image79
                Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                lol It's a great story!

    3. kephrira profile image59
      kephriraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      But it is possible. Apart from anything else alcohol affects different people in different ways. Not being able to get it up when ur drunk is not universal for all men at all times. And there are other examples I could give in which its not as black and white as people often like to portray. Try this one:

      A lonely 40 year old divorcee who hasn't had sex for years and is emotionally vulnerable is seduced by a sexually experienced 15 year old.

      I'm not saying it happens regularly, or that there should be no blame attached to what the 40 year old has done, just that people see black and white when the world is actually shades of grey.

      1. profile image0
        TattoGuyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        A 40 year old ain't gonna be seduced by a 15 year old, jeeez wat have we here, Fantasy Island !

        1. profile image0
          china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Of course 40 year olds are seduced by fifteen year olds all the time ! and older people by younger, sex is a complicated thing and when society encourages kids to grow up before they are ready this is the result.

        2. kephrira profile image59
          kephriraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I said I wasn't suggesting that it happens regularly, but I think you're on fantasy Island if you think that all sorts of things don't happen sometimes. Perhaps the 40 year old is rich, perhaps the fifteen year old is damaged from previous experiences and either drinks / uses drugs or has become very promiscuous. I knew at least one girl when I was at school who I could imagine doing something like this.

  35. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago

    Anybody seen the Fantastiks? It was the longest running show in New York.

    http://www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/the_ … 80261.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fih8eVVkgIw

  36. Tom Cornett profile image55
    Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago

    I had a childhood friend who's mother made him strip down naked...she would beat his privates with a switch or one of her gold chain necklaces.  He married a woman who couldn't have kids.

    I had another friend who's mother would beat him with a fishing pole and kicked him in the privates because she would run out of cigarettes or she was mad at her husband.

    I knew a girl who had 3 abortions before she was 15 years old....2 of the pregnancies  were from being drunk and she had no idea who the would be fathers were.  Her parents had plenty of money to fix her mistakes but no time to spend with her to prevent them.

    I knew another girl who told me she had been raped by four guys. I found out later from her best girlfriend that the girl walked in the room...stripped down naked and screamed that she wanted them all.

    I know of two 15 year old boys who had consensual sex with a 12 year old girl.  They were initially charged with rape. They are listed as sex offenders for the next 25 years.

    I know of a 13 year old boy who was charged with a sex crime...(he touched a classmates breast on a dare)he was sent to counseling with a 16 year old who had molested a two year old....he was told by the counselor that his offense was no different.

    It is a very complex problem and has to be dealt with case by case. The system is not fixing the problem and society is constantly sweeping it under the rug. Child abuse is the core of predatory behavior. Today...there are far too many victims  stemming from that abuse.  We need better education...better prevention and better people involved with children.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image79
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Tom, what you just wrote are tragedies. It's very disturbing and if your experience is an indication, the problems can be on a massive scale.  I really hope that you personlly knowing all these cases are an anomaly.

      Are you a social worker?

      1. Tom Cornett profile image55
        Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Tom, what you just wrote are tragedies. It's very disturbing and if your experience is an indication, the problems can be on a massive scale.  I really hope that you personlly knowing all these cases are an anomaly.

        Are you a social worker?

        No...not a social worker. I have been around many sorts of people in my life.  I have dealt with the system for many years in trying to protect our children from a drunken, drug addicted (natural) father and spoken with many people who found themselves in horrific situations as children.  I don't know why but people tell me their secrets.  Maybe I should be a counselor?

        1. Flightkeeper profile image79
          Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Don't know, I personally would have a hard time dealing with those tragedies.

  37. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago

    A friend of mine claimed that during his senior year in high school he slept with one of the English teachers who was 25 or so as I recall. Was she guilty of rape, assuming he was under 16 when the affair began?
    I wonder what the law says about women raping men??

    1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
      TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yup, she was guilty of statutory rape and ought to be punished as such. I would hope that the law says the same about female rapists as it does about male ones; it's certainly JUST as disgusting, and even more so because she was a teacher...I am unaware of any difference in the law regarding gender, but I'm sure others know more about it than I do.

    2. profile image0
      Jared in Vegasposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      If he was a senior in high school he was probably 17 or 18 at the time.  I don't know if statutory rape is as serious, after all that usually means there was consensus between the two.  He probably had the wrong idea about women coming out of high school, but I doubt he suffered any emotional damage.  So to say she deserves the same punishment as a child molestor or someone that forces sex onto another is extreme.  A 17 year old male isn't necessarily a man, but he's not a child either.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
        Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        He wasn't complaining, more like bragging. Apparently nobody found out about it.

      2. kephrira profile image59
        kephriraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Actually statutory rape is a more serious crime than regular rape, not less serious. The fact that it might have been consensual has no legal relevence, because a person under the age of consent cannot give consent, therefore it is regarded as non-consensual. Having said that the age of consent is 16 in Britain, so if the person was 17 or 18 then there would have been no crime.

    3. Tom Cornett profile image55
      Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The law is the same.  It is his word against her word. A female has evidence of sperm...a male doesn't unless it is immediately reported and she is arrested and swabbed for evidence. Parents must file charges and the chances are very slim that a woman will be convicted of rape if she denies it.

      1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
        Ralph Deedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well, he wasn't complaining about it at the time or when he told me about it. More like bragging.

        1. Tom Cornett profile image55
          Tom Cornettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Bragging is usually as far as it goes in that situation.  Had it been a 25 year old male and a 16 year old female...(if the parents brought it to the attention of the authorities) the male would have been charged with statutory rape and went to prison if found guilty.

  38. profile image0
    Jared in Vegasposted 7 years ago

    I agree with most everything said here, but I remember seeing a news report about sex offenders having to live in tents in the woods because no-one would rent homes to them. Is this really better? If you treat someone like an animal they're going to act like an animal right?  In the novel "Little Children" one of the characters is a sex offender and he is subject to a lot of abuse after being released from prison.

  39. Beth100 profile image83
    Beth100posted 7 years ago

    I see the answer to this question as two parts.  First, there is the issue of the proven offender.  Prison, in my opinion, is not enough of a deterrent for a repeat offender.  I, personally, have no place for guilty offenders.  What to do with them?  Prison?  Rehabilitaion? Drugs?  Sanitariums?  Isolation? Can't answer that one.

    Second, there is knowledge to be gained from these offenders, primarily the causes of these actions.  In another words, what makes their mind tick they way it does to allow them to believe they have the right to force anyone into doing what they want. 

    This is knowledge that we can use as an educational tool for society.  For law enforcement, social workers, psychiatrists, life coaches, educators, counsellors and so on.  Education and knowledge are the most powerful tools that we have which can take control of this situation.  It's not an "over night" solution, but results will take time.  Being better informed, as a society, can help prevent these tragedies from happening.

    The question revolves around the offender after the fact.  The question is, truly, what can we pro-actively do and accomplish, before the act is committed.  If we can answer this question, carry out the solution, then, we may see good results.

  40. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    No!!! They have a problem that can't be fixed and it's not worth ruining another persons life to give them a chance. I'm sorry but there is no proof they can be cured.smile

  41. Beth100 profile image83
    Beth100posted 7 years ago

    Yenajeon -- I agree that the offender can say what he/she wants to in order to meet the court's mandate to be released.

    Again, I believe that prevention is the best solution through learning, knowledge and education.

  42. cheaptrick profile image75
    cheaptrickposted 7 years ago

    Pensacola Florida 1985.I was there.
    A karate Instructor was charged with sodomizing a 7 and 9 year old boy.He confessed but some how escaped to Mississippi.He was capture and returned.As he was escorted through the airport[with live news cameras running]the father of the boys stepped out and BAM!blew his brains out.
    The father was acquitted for"Justifiable Homicide".
    Didn't know What the hell to think about that one...

  43. Ohma profile image79
    Ohmaposted 7 years ago

    Hmmm.. Lets see dehumanizing sexual predators or protecting children?? Yep this one is a no brainer for sure.

    It does little to aid your argument when you need to resort to calling people unpleasant names to make your point. My opinions are my own, and I am entitled to them just as you are. we do not agree and that is OK too.

    I happen to believe that even though you may be very educated, you have very little understanding of what it is like to be on the victims side of this argument. I do. I have first hand knowledge of what it feels like and how it has affected my life to be a victim, so I would respectfully request that until you have walked a mile in my shoes please stop judging me.

  44. profile image60
    NOT GUILTYposted 7 years ago

    Well it looks like I have stirred up some debate - ALOTA -you said that I was found guilty by a jury of my peers - but I forgot to mention how the verdicts fell.Now in my case, I was charged with five counts - all relating to a consensual liaison with a police student 21 yrs old. The jury found
    1. Not guilty
    2. guilty
    3. guilty
    4. Not Guilty
    5. Not guilty.
    So ALOTA all I can say is that you are not up with how sexual assault trials work. Consent is the central issue - now in my matter the jury found there was consent - the only evidence of consent came from me. Then consent was withdrawn. But the last two verdicts were not guilty i.e she consented again. Now when you appeal - it is on points of law and whether there was a miscarriage of justice - guess what - they found no miscarriage of justice - even when it was pointed out the ridiculous position of consent-non-consent and then consent. So what I will do now is put my money where my mouth is - actual evidence from my matter and evidence I found later - then you can see for yourself how ludicrous the system is.
    Firstly, evidence from an American Criminal Profiler Brent Turvey - FINDINGS
    After a careful examination of the case material and evidence provided, it is the opinion of this examiner that:

    1.    The physical evidence of genital injury does not support the sexual assault as described by the complainant.

    2.    The physical evidence of bodily injury and transfer evidence is inconsistent with the sexual assault as described by the complainant.

    3.    The investigative shortcomings in this case are to such a degree that minimum thresholds of investigative competency and thoroughness have not been achieved.

    4.    The facts and circumstances of the complaint evidence numerous investigative “red flags” for false sexual assault allegations.

    Now evidence from the Head of Forensic Medicine for the Victorian Police Force - thats right the head of the Vic Police - not some gun for hire expert.

    "The contusion and swelling described in the notes are external injuries not associated with vaginal penetration. There is no adequate explanation anywhere in the statements or transcripts I have read of how they were sustained. It is not possible to exclude them as having occurred at some other time or by some other mechanism than the alleged assault.
    Any interpretation of genital injury as being indicative of non-consent for sexual activity is completely without foundation."

    Now this woman alleged that i injured her vagina and four days later because of the pain would not allow a doctor to examine her. She stated on the night, she was in so much pain that she could not dance (she went to a nightclub after the alleged assault) and described her dancing as stationary moving side to side but in too much pain to dance, then approached her best friend 20 minutes later to take her home, to which he did.

    Her best friend supplied this evidence.
    On the night of the alleged assault – (complainants name) stated she was injured, could hardly walk - can you describe if she appeared as debilitated as she stated?

    16.    The first I was informed of the alleged assault was at Flamingo’s Night Club (aka Dingo’s). I told her that we have to go to Goulburn Police and report this matter to which she declined. At this stage she did not disclose to me that she was in pain or showed any injuries sustained as a result of the alleged incident. Other students like Jennifer Robinson and Donna Green assisted with Kristy. I was informed later that Kristy actually examined herself in the toilets to Dingo’s. A very short time later I told Kristy that we needed to go home to which she stated to me, “Let’s stay and enjoy the rest of the night.” For the next two (2) hours or so I saw Kristy smiling, laughing dancing on the stage of Dingo’s. At one stage I only saw Kristy with at least six (6) OSG or SPG personnel (Sworn Police Officers) dancing on the stage. I saw that she was straddling one male’s leg whilst another was close behind. All persons dancing were touching each other bodies. I didn’t look to me that Kristy was in any pain what so ever. Later that night we walked home from Dingo’s to Kristy’s unit in Church Street Goulburn. The distance would be about 1km to 1.5km and we both walked it. Kristy did not complain or show any signs of pain whilst walking home.

    Another police officer was asked about the pain and the dancing style of the complainant,

    she is seen by a Crown Witness Donna Green (pge 210 trial transcript) doing the following,
    Q.    Did you at some stage see her dancing?
    A.    Yes I did
    Q.    Can you say anything about the way she was dancing?
    A.    She was dancing rather flirty up on stage with other males and things like that.
    Q.    Can you say anything about the style of dancing, how she was moving?
    A.    Yeah it was odd, it was odd. Yeah, I kept looking at her like she was weird.
    Q.    When you say odd was there something about her legs or the way she moved or - -
    A.    No, I didn’t – wouldn’t say there was anything physically wrong with her, she was sort of sluttish actually, the way she danced that’s all.

    So here we have a woman who was supposed to have been dragged 150metres away from a club, manhandled and assaulted - no external injuries whatsoever and the only other injury alleged was an abrasion to her vagina - which incidentally cannot be occasioned in the fashion she alleged - again the Head Physician stated this,
    The areas where Dr Harmon described swelling and contusion were the mons pubis or pubic mound, and the labia majora or outer lips. These are external structures and penetration does not have to occur in order to cause bruising to them. The area may become bruised or injured by a number of mechanisms including blunt impact, “fall astride injuries”, pressure or friction, none of which involve penetration between the labia (lips). There are no allegations of blunt impact to the external genitalia in this case, although I note that Ms Harris was
    wearing tight pants with no underwear. There was no bruising elsewhere on the body to suggest Ms Harris had an increased susceptibility to bruising. The finding of contusion to external genital structures is not associated with
    forceful vaginal penetration in the absence of direct trauma to those external structures. In the course of my forensic career I have examined hundreds of sexual assault victims and cannot recollect ever seeing external bruising to the mons or labia purely as a result of vaginal penetration. Conversations with
    experienced colleagues confirm this observation.
    As mentioned, genital injuries do heal very quickly
    and it would be expected that any pain would be much diminished after 4 days. In the absence of any other reason for not conducting the examination, any injury severe enough to make examination impossible after that interval would have to have been extremely severe at the time it was sustained and is
    likely to have been associated with bleeding and/or difficulty passing urine. Neither symptom was described nor documented.

    The evidence of Dr O'Dell was so profound, the Crown replied to my submission with this,

    In the Crowns Submission, Dr Harmon’s evidence was not to the affect that he could confirm the complainant’s complaint of assault or prove that there had been non-consenting penetration; he merely reported that the complainant’s injuries were “consistent” with her version of events. Whilst the Crown does not dispute that it is not possible to exclude the complainant’s genital injuries as having occurred at some other time, this does not, in itself, raise a doubt or question as to the appellants guilt. Expert evidence of the kind now given by Dr O’Dell could also have been obtained at the time of trial.

    RESPONSE:    I dealt with the unsatisfactory nature of the word “consistent” in my certificate. We do not like that word as once it is used, it is too easy to make the mental shift from a possibility to a certainty. The injuries could be “consistent” with other mechanisms of injury as well. While it is true that Dr Harmon did not give evidence that confirmed the complainant’s version of events, it is important to realize that this does not confirm the accused’s guilt either. I am at a loss to understand the argument that if it is not possible to exclude the complainant’s genital injuries as having occurred at some other time, “…this does not, in itself, raise a doubt or question as to the appellants guilt…”. If any reliance was made on the injuries for determining guilt or dismissing the first appeal, then that is based on very uncertain evidence and if there is a possibility that any genital injuries were either not present or occurred at some other time then this casts doubt on that determination.
    Whether or not this evidence could have been given at the trial is not my area of expertise.

    So this police student stated I assaulted her because she got caught with me after an interlude - and knowing that she could loose her police career (fraternising is punishable) - then she said the next thing.

    I am sorry for all of the words etc, but how in the hell can I get through to people - found guilty and get on with it - your joking mate. You sit in my shoes and see how it feels, fight and have doors slammed every time. Now this is a small snippet of the 1000 page submission to the NSW Supreme Court that took me four years to compile and submit.

    Do not delude yourself - there are people out there that will lie, cheat and manipulate the system for their own end - I have seen it first hand.

    But if I can stop one person from going through what my family and I have been throughm, then all of this is worth it. It maybe over for me but I can help others.

    1. profile image0
      china manposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Funny how no-one seems to be listening - but, if you are indeed innocent, this is as devastating as rape itself in many ways. As I said earlier - malicious claims should attract the same penalties as the event. maybe then the false garbage will get less and the real debate that influences courts can get on with it in a proper manner.

  45. bojanglesk8 profile image60
    bojanglesk8posted 7 years ago

    There is room... but it's not a nice place to be in.

  46. profile image0
    lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

    maybe the question should be are we able to make more room for the sexual offenders victims?

  47. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Not Guilty - I am well aware of how sexual assault cases work, in most if not all cases the jury will find not guilty verdicts in relation to some of the charges, the reason for this is lack of evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, whether one is convicted of one charge or several hundred is not relevant, the reality is that until such time as your conviction is quashed you will remain guilty in my eyes and in the eyes of the public in general. Indeed even if your conviction is quashed many will consider you guilty as they did in the OJ Simpson murder trial, I think you are simply wasting your time trying to plead your case here, you are welcome here no matter who you are, but perhaps you should focus on doing something more positive like poetry or fiction or what ever......your wasting you time showing fractions of transcripts....anyone could do that

  48. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    Maximous, I think you are being somewhat harsh in relation to Bonny's comments, you clearly have an understanding of these matters, most dont, it is unfair to expect everyone to have the same knowledge as you clearly do, you speak authoritively on the subject...perhaps you could do a Hub on the topic I would be interested to read it...

  49. Alota profile image60
    Alotaposted 7 years ago

    well said china man.

  50. iskra1916 profile image61
    iskra1916posted 7 years ago

    Firstly, as an Irish person I should point out that Ireland is pretty far from being a hotbed of sexual deviancy despite some high profile cases recently.
    The tabloids & other 'sensationalist' writers know there is good 'copy' in peddling this myth.

    The Church hierarchy has quite rightly found itself in the 'dock' for its abuses of power & protecting paedophile priests. The Irish people will never trust them again & quite rightly so.

    I am no expert but I would guess that the Church's rules on celibacy for priests has been a contributory factor but the whole culture of sexual repression within the Churchs' teachings had created the environent for abuses to occurr imho

 
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