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they owe it to me and the majority of americans
well, all five of Arizona's Democratic congressmen voted for it. so, in November's election, i'm voting Republican just to make a point. i don't think i have ever voted republican in my life. in fact i may even switch parties. that is how much i can't stand Barack Obama.
Some how I think the majority of Americans have more sense to use proper capitalization LOL.
I have to be honest and painfully candid.
If this is in ref. to the "healthbill," and you haven't read the 16+ lb, 2000+ page bill and know exactly what it is you are wanting us to vote against, you are an easily led, simple "follower" not a "thinker."
You are responding as the 'cultish," uninformed "teaparty" nuts are.
You are not a credible "forum hubber" concerning this bill.
So I don't want to read what you offer.
" you haven't read the 16+ lb, 2000+ page bill and know exactly what it is you are wanting us to vote against, you are an easily led, simple "follower" not a "thinker." "
Well, that would include EVERY LEGISLATOR WHO VOTED FOR IT. Or should I say voted for a rule change that said that even though they didn't vote for it they could just say they did and make it law anyway...
In my case, most of all I resent the mandate (which IS in the bill) that forces me to purchase health insurance "or else". True, that item won't be enforced until 2014, but it's still reprehensible.
Hope that's specific enough.
You don't need to know what's in the bill.
The bill is an attempt of the federal government to legislate on health care.
It is thus unconstitutional. Check my hub - "Universal health care: unconstitutional" for the argument.
I don't understand why this is "Bullshit", as fishskinfreak2008 claims...
The bill is unconstitutional. Those who oppose the bill are correct.
I would demand that they need to go even further and repeal the other regulations already in place in the health care system --- yes, there are many.
The bill is not unconstitutional, but that is the favorite buzz word of those who do not care about other's that lose their health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Are you kidding? This bill have been watered down quite a bit LOL.
"The bill is not unconstitutional"
It obviously is.
Gosh, you sound like one of those kids whinning about who is right. Enjoy fantasy land dude!
I'll enjoy watching all the legal challenges roll out the moment obama signs this bill.
Lovely, the bill IS unconstitutional - have you ever read the Constitution? read the 10th amendment (the cornerstone of the constitution, as Madison and Jefferson called it), and then read Art.1 Sec.8. You'll see that, while it was a specifically listed power to make post offices, while there is no specifically listed power to regulate health care. It's unconstitutional.
First off I am a beautiful woman, not a guy. Your understanding of the Constitution and the tenth amendment is not accurate, and contradictory. One minute you are defending the Constitution, and the next minute you are saying we should do away with it and privatize schools and roads. Did you realize the biggest Hubpages troll just agreed with you? A friend emailed me and told me Sa OB is tksensei, and he is not someone I would be proud of agreeing with. You both sound like immature guys that disparage the people the health care bill will help. Since you are an expatriate living in Japan why do you care if we will now have health care reform? You are no longer living in America, so just ignore our victory here. Libertarians are some of the wackiest people I have ever met. They yearn for a time when they lived in large mansions and had servants tending the fields.
Lovely - the bill is unconstitutional. Your claim that it isn't just shows that you haven't read the Constitution.
Read Article 1 Section 8
then read the Tenth Amendment.
And explain to me where "taking money from X and giving it to Y in the form of Health care" is in anyway Constitutional.
Not a single person has managed to LEGITIMATELY answer this argument. Everyone just says "we can ignore the constitution when people are sick" or whatever. --- you can, but only through an amendment process. AMEND the constitution, THEN grant health care. They at least had the decency to amend the Constitution before they instigated the income tax... (although it was an illegitimate amending)
and don't you DARE claim that I don't care about others. That is a direct insult to my character. If i weren't restraining myself I'd spew the most heated hate-filled insults to you that i could. I am SEVERELY tempted to do so. I care about my fellow man. I care about people dying of cancer who can't afford it. I care about curing illnesses. I donate to charities, I work hard, I help my fellow man.
BUT I DO NOT GRANT MY GOVERNMENT THE RIGHT TO FORCE ME TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE. THIS IS THEFT. THIS IS AN INVASION OF MY PRIVACY. THIS IS AGGRESSION (try not paying your taxes...).
DON'T YOU DARE ****ING CLAIM THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT MY FELLOW MAN.
The way to help the people is NOT to sell your liberty to let politicians decide how to help others. the way to do so is to get the government out of the way - the AMA needs to be repealed, the income tax needs to be repealed, the hundreds of state regulations on health insurance need to be repealed, the system of employer-granted health care needs to be repealed (this system was created indirectly - but really directly if you understand economic logic - by government in 1942).
Get government out, and quit accusing who disagree with you as being evil.
You know I have read the Constitution, but unlike you I do not rely on Fox news to interpret for me. I will give you some slack as an expatriate kid who does not seem to understand much about those who cannot afford health care. No offense to you, but while you can afford to go off to Japan and see the world, many of your fellow Americans can barely afford to pay for their health care. By the way, your reading of the Constitution is very narrow, and you need to grow up a bit. You know they say a conservative a twenty does not have a heart, but I also think you would benefit from learning more about people that have less than you.
Oh and I know you think you are so much better than me because you want to spew hate incensed comments towards me, but I just think you need to grow up a bit in that regard also. I have nothing against you, I just think as a well off expatriate you have no room to be against your fellow Americans that cannot afford insurance. Get over yourself!
More than half a dozen instances of illogic in that post.
Rich kids who get to go abroad because their parents foot their college bills is pretty straight forward. Anyone who had to work their way through college and pay for their own insurance would not begrudge health care reform. From what I see you make some funny comments and no logic.
I not only worked my way through college, I went to school in Switzerland for a while all on my own steam.
This bill stinks and has nothing to do with healthcare reform.
It is a tax bill.
So there are some people who all on their own steam could not afford to go to Switzerland because of their health care bills. Really, anyone who can afford to travel outside of the country has extra income, and should not begrudge those who have to spend all of their money on rent, food, and health care bills. I am not sure why everyone is being so protective of these over priced insurance policies. Also, with all do respect I can tell you are not a college age anymore, and I am. There is no way I could afford to study abroad even if I wanted too. I have bills to pay.
I didn't have "extra" income. I knew I wanted to go to a certain school there so I worked my butt off and scrimped and saved. Often going without some of the basics.
I don't begrudge anyone good medical care, but this bill isn't about that.
Actually this bill will end dropping people off their insurance for pre-existing conditions. My friend is diabetic and cannot afford her med because her insurer dropped her. Actually this bill has been watered down quite a bit, and what we need is something even more progressive.
I do not even have the leisure to consider putting five dollars away for something special. Anyway, I am off to work now, and see some of you will just never get it.
"Really, anyone who can afford to travel outside of the country has extra income"
There's another one! Illogical.
I'm not protective of these over priced insurance policies.
These policies exist because the government has their hands so far up the health care industry's bum-hole that such insane prices HAD to result.
the 1942 stabilization act (created the employer-provided health care system), the AMA (government granted monopoly), the income tax being applied to money but not health care (i'm against taxes altogether, but benefiting one sort of income at the expense of another has huge consequences), all the different state regulations (thomas Dilorenzo talks about this in an article he wrote last year), and many other ridiculous policies.
Get the government out altogether. Gov't makes decisions based off of politics, not economics.
Sorry. This is a bill that transfers power from the legislative branch to the executive.
"Anyone who had to work their way through college and pay for their own insurance would not begrudge health care reform"
And that statement itself is illogical.
Just wanted to say thanks for helping me out / agreeing with me against these things. I might not agree with you 100% (are you conservative) but thanks for reminding me i:m not insane
Even IF my parents footed the college bill (which they didn't), why the heck would you be mad at my parents for working hard and saving their money so as to benefit their next of kin?
You are mad at people who work hard! No wonder you're a socialist!
Lovely, you don't have to be a jerk.
I hate fox news with a passion, except Napolitano. You don't need to have someone else 'interpret' the Constitution for you - it's written in plain English, and it makes clear that this particular subject, along with countless others, are Unconstitutional.
"While i can afford to go off and see japan...", hey buddy, f*ck you. I paid for this trip by WORKING, and was able to afford it even though 30% of my wage was taken from my for use by the government. I paid for college... and I'm working here saving up my money. Don't cry to me because you don't know how to save money up. F*ck you. Once, again, you don't have to be a dick.
"my reading is very narrow" ... no ... it's reading what the words say and what they mean. The 10th amendment is very clear, and easy to understand.
"you need to grow up a bit". So far you've attacked me for working hard and saving money, and then called me narrow minded, and ... I'm the one that needs to grow up? ... gonna have to go with "f*ck you" on this one.
I ain't a conservative, I'm a libertarian (at best). Quit generalizing, and quit being a dick.
"because you want to spew hate incensed comments towards me". Am I the only one who noticed that you were the first person in our debate to attack their opponent? You insulted me, then call me a jerk for defending myself and retorting in kind.
Did anyone else notice this? he's mad at me because he insulted me? anyone?
Lovely: you told me that i don't care about my fellow man, then I told you that such a comment was unjustified (i used quite a bit of harsh language, but, c'mon, you claimed i was evil).
Grow up, bud.
The GOP was locked out of the health care bill, that's a fact.
The approved healthcare bill is all democrats except for a small minority of their own party.
If you think otherwise, you don't know the true facts.
Time will tell if Obama and his paid off party voting members will succeed in changing America.
You betcha and you haven't seen anything yet until the bill goes into effect. Your taxes will go up,your insurance premiums will go up and you may still be waiting to get a job.
GUESS WHAT, many members didn't read the bill either, they voted to pass the bill on Obama's promises..
Pelosi said ''we need to pass the bill so that we will know what is in it ''.
When they wake up, they will get back to changing the rules and revise it in the dark of night or behind closed doors somewhere in Washington.
Of course this guy was not complaining when taxes went up to pay for all those Repub pet projects. Heaven forbid more Americans actually have access to some what affordable health care. I find it laughable that Americans are getting upset over a bill that is very watered down. This is hardly socialized medicine, not even by a long shot.
Guess what Jon -
The Democrats know what's in the bill because THEY WROTE IT!
The GOP passed a bill for the Oil Companies - written by the Oil Companies.
The GOP passed a bill for the banks - and the banks wrote the bill.
The GOP passed a law for the Rx companies written by the Rx companies.
It seems to have not occurred to the GOP that the year of meetings and debate and compromise over a law written entirely for the benfit of the People is known by the lawmakers who WROTE THE BILL!
Lobbyists wrote the bill, they wrote the stimulus bill, they write every bill.
Why are you so gullible?
you forgot the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 - written by private bankers. It was an unconstitutional legislation that has been the direct cause of horrendous suffering in our country.
The Democrats that voted for the bill never read the bill because it never was written. Obama didn't even know what was in the bill.The CBO didn't get all the information that was in the bill,their score was an estimate.The news media didn't report the CBO letter written to Pelosi. Pelosi told the country that when the bill is passed ,we will know what's in it.
The whole process was a fraud perpetrated by the radical leaders of the Democrat Congress and President Barak Obama on the American people.
Members of our government take an oath to defend the constitution .The Democrats exposed what the Democrat Party is all about corruption, buying members for a vote and pure political graft.
The people expected an honest vote on what is right for the people.
Time will tell when the new bureaucracy is created and the new 12,000 IRS agents will be making SURE EVERYONE WILL BE BUYING HEALTH INSURANCE. Hopefully you won't be one of the lucky ones to be audited and fined..
The GOP owes it to the insurance companies who line their pockets to block the bill...
the insurance companies are going to make a FORTUNE off this bill!!!
The richest people have to subsidize the poorest? -That's moolah for the companies!!
EVERYONE has to be insured? - That's moolah for the companies!!!
EVERY company HAS to accept people with previous conditions? - that means that prices have to go up, which means MORE money for the companies!!!!
Government is going to fine people who DON'T have insurance?! - that's just gonna force people to have insurance and give the companies more money!!!
There are going to be MORE restrictions in place as to how many insurance companies there can be -- MORE money for the companies!!!
I'm shocked that anyone can claim that Insurance companies are going to hate the bill!! I can't believe people actually think Drug companies don't want this bill!! I can't believe no one has actually thought through the cause and effect of what is going to happen!
UW, you might want to look at this article from the Insurance Journal before you blame the Republicans with lining their pockets with insurance money. The Dems are just as bad or worse!
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/na … 100525.htm
Reading a list of comments in a forum, I sometimes wonder why I waste my time in the forums. It depresses me to see that so many people are so close minded, and afraid of change that they would fight to do away with a bill that does so much for so many.
People are closed minded for disagreeing with you?
Or for opposing gross legislative corruption?
Or expecting elected representatives to actually represent the will of the people?
Or for respecting the Constitution?
Closed minded indeed...
I'm not afraid of change!! let's bring on the change!! i love change!!
Get rid of the income tax!! Get rid of the IRS!!! Get rid of the government granted monopolies of the AMA!!! Get rid of Sales tax!!! get rid of government altogether!! Let's get a TRUE free market going - privatized roads, privatized courts, privatized money, privatized health care, privatized you name it.
I WOULD LOVE to see change... but Obama isn't change, he's just taking a crap on civil liberties, and saying it's a good thing.
There is a very simple solution.
Remove the Mandate.
That's it. Then those who want to participate in Obamacare can and those who do not want to participate will not have their constitutional rights trampled on.
Once you do away with government, who runs things? Does everything get privitized?
Do we run our country as a for-profit business?
No, we run it as a socialized business. The United States is no longer a nation. It is a corporation. And the future of this country is to run it as a business entity. There is no other way to accommodate the citizens of this country PLUS hundreds of millions of illegals that are being beckoned into this country. Socialized medicine is the only way to go for a massively large population.
"Once you do away with government, who runs things?"
now that new polls show most americans favor the HC bill, how will the GOP react? How long before they start trying to take credit for parts of the bill that all voted against?
As the rhetoric and blatant lies clear, more people support the bill and will continue to support the bill. Facts are stubborn.
I have concerns about this bill but it is hard to argue that this piece of historic legislation will not benefit the country as a whole. Finally establishing real insurance company regulations to stop abuse is an enormous step up for the American people.
Wyden discussed -- for one of the first times in public -- legislative language he authored which "allows a state to go out and do its own bill, including having no individual mandate."
It's called the "Empowering States to be Innovative" amendment. And it would, quite literally, give states the right to set up their own health care system -- with or without an individual mandate.
So there you go--10th amendment secured.
Now stop lying about it.
And that is a valid question sabby....you want to do away with the federal gvt.? Or was that evan?
So what happens once you do away with the gvt?
The GOP IS taking credit for it!
Just like they took credit for Stimulus money that came to their districts, which they voted against.
It's absolutely INCREDIBLE the amount of hypocricy in the God's
It's an Alice in Wonderland version of reality.
The attitude: "who would run our lives for us without big brother government?" is appalling.
I'm asking-- who do you have in mind instead?
So far, no one has answered with anything besides the usual "change the subject so you can deride the questioner."
So predictable, I could do this while painting my toe nails!
You: The government sucks. It's no good, crooked, does nothing right.
Me: What would you suggest we put in it's place?
there-that was easy wasn't it? Now let's see what your answer is.
let me guess...."You are a moonbat Obama sucking loser." etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc....ummmmm.....Answer the question! Oh, I'll say Please, since we have to be civil.
"I'm asking-- who do you have in mind instead?"
The immediate cry of "who will run my life for me?" is what is so appalling. Have you seen anyone advocate eliminating all government whatsoever? If so, take up your pointless hypothetical with them.
The answer to the question is to socialize major parts of the economy so close to 600 million people can live their lives in blissful ignorance. The health care bill is the beginning. At the last census there were 300 million people here. But by 2020 it will be closer to 600 million as illegals come here for amnesty. Socialized health care is the only answer for that many people.
it's the conservative version of a wing-nut.
As far as I remember, moonbat came first. But you gotta say it right.
Wing nut is good, but I prefer tighty-righty.
I don't think all polls show a majority of people for the health care bill, in fact only those that try and distort the truth by using a targeted group of people are claiming this drastic change in the mood of Americans.
Never heard the moonbat reference before and I thought I had heard everything.
You're not from Massachusetts then!
We have a Democratic controlled gvt. here, and that term is used on a regular basis by the local Republican mouth-pieces.
Liberals are Moooooonbats, kids of single moms are baaaaaaaastards, and Romney is a god sent from heaven. pardon me while I throw up.
Left wing is a liberal, you may want to bone up on who is who.
I am from Massachusetts.
Never heard of a moonbat before?
"kids of single moms are baaaaaaaastards"
Technically, kids born out of wedlock are bastards.
You sure seem worked up over the tiny minority of your fellow Baystaters who are Republican. If even MA isn't politically homogeneous enough for you, you might have to go join a commune up in VT or something to enjoy the complete uniformity of thought that will calm your hysteria.
If you're from Massachusetts and don't know mooooonbat, then you never listened to Howie Carr....righty mouthpiece dujour.
And I know what a moonbat is...I'm what you would call one...I must not have explained myself well.
And I don't demand uniformity, just honesty.
These Republican up here are always coming off like Saviors. "We will save you from the Democrats." here they come on their white horse....
No new taxes....but fees through the roof! Cost of living through the roof. Can't have a windfarm cause the republican Big Oil Alliance needs their Sound. 10 years of stalling and throwing road-blocks...SOUND FAMILIAR? Can't have our way? waaa waaa waaa
Yes, taxes are bad....$90.00 for a carton of cigarettes??
$2.75 for gas as of today.$3.94 per gallon for propane. Rents are outrageous...so I've heard.
But the Repubs running up here....one was head of Pilgrim. Premiums were tripled on his watch...to match his salary increase! Another one was sued numerous times for not paying people money he owed! The other one's a Reagan-loving Tea-Bagger.
And the funny thing is, Howie Carr never called Sarah's grandson a baaaaaastard...how about that?
Bristol got a pass too, even though it was the time of the Gloucester Girls and everybody was calling them all those bad names for getting pregnant...ole sarah and Bristol came off like pure angels...funny huh? The wing-nuts wouldn't have a double standard would they?
Well, here it is hours gone by and still no answer.
What would you replace the government with, since the government is such a useless, criminal entity?
Democratic socialism. Citizens are still allowed certain choices, but large parts of the society are controlled by government mandates such as health care. A democratic republic is okay for smaller populations -- about 200 million or less. But anything above that, particularly with a sub-educated populace, is not controllable by conventional means. Thus, a democratic form of socialism. Sort of half and half. Democracy would not work in places like China or Russia because of the enormous numbers of people. That's why Pelosi wants illegals here.
"Democracy would not work in places like China or Russia because of the enormous numbers of people"
That is pure nonsense. India has the second largest population in the world after China and it is a democracy. And Russia hardly has an enormous population. It has a very sparse population relative to its enormous geographic size and is on the decline.
India is a democracy in name only HubTroll. Even though the caste system is illegal, do you know what life is like in India? People in the slum of Mumbai are forced to go to the bathroom in the streets because the government does not provide proper sanitation for the poor. Do you think that is a good thing? Guess what? That guy was agreeing with your point, and you just acted like he was arguing with you. TK/Sa OB you are not the brightest crayon in the box are you?
"And I don't demand uniformity, just honesty."
"These Republican up here are always coming off like Saviors. "We will save you from the Democrats.""
That is complete BS. The few Republicans who actually hold any kind of office in MA are of necessity very much used to working in a bipartisan manner. Don't try to pass your hysterically extreme political bias off as fact.
"No new taxes....but fees through the roof! "
Actually, lots of new taxes AND fees going through the roof. Blame Deval and the gang for that. There are not enough Republicans in public office in MA for your rant to make the slightest sense. Do you think you can just make things up and no one will notice?
"Can't have a windfarm cause the republican Big Oil Alliance needs their Sound"
Actually, it was people like the Kennedy family (perhaps you've heard of them) who have opposed the construction of a wind farm off Nantucket for years because it would ruin their Limo Liberal view from the summer mansion. Do you think you can just make things up and no one will notice?
Wow, just got home from a long day at work and realized the health care bill is completed (for now).
The GOPs owe it to the public to retire from office and allow someone willing and competent to help govern this country to have a chance. They are worthless, divisive, and useless. I want our money from their salaries back. They are not standing up for your backward principles; they are covering their butts from the fallout which should have rained down on them for bankrupting this country. You GOPs are a forgiving lot, as long as your demogogues speak the approved garbage. You seem to like demagogues a lot; perhaps that explains the Tea Party Movement and your acceptance of everything that comes out of the mouths of your right wing nutjobs. Not a rational though among you.
As for the health care bill, the country voted on it when they elected Obama. What's this "we the people" don't want it. It could have been a great bill had the right wingnuts and left conservos determined it was not it their best interest to allow government to thrive. After all, they have been preaching that government is bad all these years. Besides, they had their insurance employers to consider. By the way, if government is bad, why doesn't the GOP just get the hell out of the way and stop taking government salaries?
LOL! So you think every single Republican holding public office should retire? Great plan.
Just the ones that clearly have disdain for the gvt.
Chasingcars is right...why do they take money from something they have zero respect for and want to abolish?
It makes no sense.
Go do something they like....like rob us blind and skip the country...
move their business overseas...heck, go to Costa Rica with Russssshhhhhh!
Start a community of anarchists.
"No gvt." "No rules," "No conscience"
Sounds perfect. Better than taking peoples money when you despise what your job represents.
It's like me going to work and telling my boss he sucks and there's no need for him....i'd be outta there! One strike yer out.
"Just the ones that clearly have disdain for the gvt."
Glad to define if for you -
If you don't think government can do anything right, you probably can't produce legislation that will work for the people.
That's how I read 'distain for the government'.
It makes as much sense as puting a vegetarian in charge of a meat packng plant. His heart can't ever be in the job. He would be unqualified by his predisposition - as are most republicans.,
"It's like me going to work and telling my boss he sucks and there's no need for him...."
That's just what the democrats did how they 'passed' this health care bill.
Also, Democrats received 98% of the total contributions made by trial lawyers. No wonder they didn't want to support TORT reform!
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini … 69475.html
The CBO analyzed tort reform and found the benefit would be about 1 and 1-half percent of the cost of health care. Nothing compared to the average 25% premium increase by the biggest insurer there.
I am actually FOR tort reform - but not in the form that republicans want to introduce it. There is no point in introducing legislation that caps the damages caused by recklessness or crass negligence. I don't approve of lawyers who file groundless suits in the hope of forcing an insurance company to settle out-of-court for a lesser amount. There are a number of ways of screening bogus suits to discoourage unethical suits.
Doug, what's 1.1% of one trillion? Seems like it would be worth it to me. And I actually agree with you, mostly. I think when someone suffers dire consequences from negligense, they should reap compensation. BUT there are a lot of frivolous law suits that should be stopped.
by Reality Bytes5 years ago
The beginning of round two?http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 … titutional"A federal judge declared the Obama administration's health care law unconstitutional Monday, siding with Virginia's attorney...
by lady_love1585 years ago
http://nation.foxnews.com/health-care/2 … -companiesThere it is in his own words... get rid of the insurance companies. Sanders is an avowed socialist and is reflecting the desire of Obama and the democrats to...
by SparklingJewel5 years ago
This link has good information on this subject. I haven't read it all yet. It is from a conservative news site.http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vi … eId=106694
by Poppa Blues6 years ago
The bill contains 500 billion in NEW taxes. These taxes will affect everyone, not just the rich. In fact if you need a medical device, you will now have to pay a tax for it! Yes a tax on things like defibrillators,...
by qwark5 years ago
what a waste of time!It will never be "repealed."Read it damnit! All 2000+ pages and make, in bi-partisan manner, the necessary changes that will improve it!Qwark
by Alternative Prime8 months ago
Opening his mouth doesn’t appear to be a strong suit for poor ole’ backwards Jeb - Every time he yaps his trap his big “Special” brother George W looks like the intelligent sibling ~ How much...
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