A question for the women, er, ladies . . .

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   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   Is it okay for a man who is a stranger to you to call you "sugar"?
   
   Do you find terms like this condescending and sexist?
   
   Especially if you are in a discussion with this man and he doesn't like what you're saying, and uses the term to belittle you?
   
   Just askin'

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      Grace Maryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      From a stranger?  I'd say it's presumptuous.  It assumes a level of familiarity that isn't there.  I would, however, make allowences for an elderly gentleman because they come from a time with different mores. 
      
      From someone not a stranger?  I agree that context is all.  Said at the wrong time with the wrong tone of voice could get you punched.

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         luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi my name is Teri. "And don't think a woman can't punch!" lol

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      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      
      i don't mind at all. i hear sugar, baby, honey, sweetheart, etc.
      
      better than 'b*tch', or 'toots'.

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         Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         

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         AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I usually call women "marmalade"

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            cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            ...........
            
            call me irresponsible

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               AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               ...a cab
               ...late for dinner (plenty more where these came from )

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      Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      More women that are strangers have called me sugar than men have. For some people, it's just a habit and for others, it is their way of being friendly. Names I wouldn't tolerate are: baby or sexy.
      
      When I worked in the casino, I called all the customers who came to my window "hon" or "sweetie" if I knew them a bit better. They seemed to like it.

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         Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I do that myself. But I always mean it to be polite and warm-hearted

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            Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ooh, I didn't read the part about him using it to belittle you.
            
            THAT would piss me off.

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            Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Context and tone mean a lot.  When Brenda refers to people in the forums as perverts, it's meant as an insult (and to imply disfavor from God).  When I call people perverts it's entirely complimentary, and implies favor from me.

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               Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I used to call one of my exes a pervert. It was a term of endearment though. He used to call me a b*tch. We never called each other those things when we were mad, just when we were being silly
               
               My best friends and I, in high school, used to refer to each other as sluts.
               
               It IS all about context.

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                  Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Well then......
                  
                  Pervert!

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                     Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Slut

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                        Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I have to go now.
                        
                        I need some alone time.

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                           Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           

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         luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         MM Pani...you worked in a Caino? Were you a dealer? Not noisy, just curious...I considered this as a way to meet new people.

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            Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I wasn't a dealer. I was the person everybody loved, I cashed chips
            
            Hm... kind of miss that job, really.

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      shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I dont mind being called anything as long as it is nice.

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      BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I suppose it beats "Sucker at the teet of a syphilitic sow". ... HA, I knew I'd get that phrase in somewhere.

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         Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         

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      Springboardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I would have to say that the term 'sugar' when said to a stranger would be inappropriate. Just may take.

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      Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      To me it totally depends on who is saying it and why. If my mechanic says it because he assumes I know nothing about cars he is likely to get smacked but if it is said by someone asking for help or looking for something then it is ok

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      Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I've had lots of waitresses call me sugar and honey.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The word is rather condescending, yes.
      Maybe even sexist.
      But not something I'd sue for or report.
      
      I'd just call the person who said it something similarly sarcastic.  Like sweetie pie or sour cream.
      Or in the case of the person in question ('cause I saw the post)....."Obama-brown-noser" maybe....teehee..
      
      That person is always saying "we" are pals with those who throw racist slurs.   I think that person should look at who his idols "pal around" with and cater to.  Like William Ayres and Jeremiah Wright and Communist leaders....

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       Sage Williamsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Just my opinion,
       
       Anytime, a term is used in a condescending manor or in an effort to belittle you it is an abuse of power.
       
       So regardless whether it is sugar or any other term, the manor in which it is used is where the problem lies.

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          Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That's true. The intent makes a big difference.

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             china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Have to disagree with you here Ralph -
             
             "Anytime, a term is used in a condescending manor or in an effort to belittle you it is an abuse of power."
             
             Women object to the use of endearments to strangers such as Sugar etc because it is an automatic assumption of male superiority

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                Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Like what Obama did to that reporter?

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                Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                It's not an "automatic assumption of male superiority" although this may be true much or most of the time. It depends on a number of factors. Also, waitresses, especially in restaurants called "Moms" or "Eats" tend to use the terms routinely toward men and women as a friendly greeting.
                
                With due respect, China Man, I'm not sure whether you, an Englishman living in China, are the best qualified to make judgments about forms of address in the United States. I agree that your principle is correct although I don't think it's applicable in all cases of the use of the words at issue. Please tell us about China and UK.

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                PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                You are not giving women enough credit to be able to discern for themselves the intent behind the term.
                
                With regards to Madame X's complaint in particular, I believe the term was used to get her goat.  However, in the context of the thread in which it was used, I would say it was quite mild.  I'm surprised that an intelligent woman like Madame X would feel the need to start a whole thread about it.
                
                I've seen much greater insults hurled from both sides.

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       RachaelLeflerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, I think it's condescending and rude. Especially from a stranger.

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       sandylongmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Usually men that use that term "sugar" or "honey" especially if you do not know them well are most likely a womanizer. I would find it offensive.

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       Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       When I waited tables, I had the habit of calling patrons, "sweetie", or "hun". I am from Texas and I know a lot of women who find it condescending, but I never meant it that way.  But I am a woman.  I think it is more important to take things in context.  I am not easily offended, unless offense is intended, then I will stick up for myself.  Most people who use these terms out of habit.  I don't think it is offensive.

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   Justine76posted 14 years ago

   sweetheart
   pal
   honey
   little lady
   little woman
   
   
   why are you wearing shoes?....
   
   stuff like that? I dont mind sugar by itself, lots of little old guys have called me that..but condescndign makes me soooo mad!!

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      sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah just like you said.

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   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   I don't mind if it is truly meant in a kindly way. But as condescension it is only meant to demean.
   
   That's outright sexism if you ask me.

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      lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      

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   SparklingJewelposted 14 years ago

   abuses of power are harmful as much we allow them to be...but yes, haven't dated for years because men sometimes aren't even aware where their consciousness is, so I don't waste my breath trying to explain, let alone, give up my precious energy to counteract them...I just let it roll off...some women feel the need to be a mother or supporter of men like that, not me

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   luvpassionposted 14 years ago

   Though men often use these terms freely, it is better that they don't use a term of endearment during a disagreement. It's very insulting...in my opinion

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      Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Extremely . . . but then again, it's meant to be.

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   Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

   You dames sure get riled easy

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        your pic always makes me think of.."shut up brain, or Ill stab you with a q-tip"

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         Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         One of his most revered quotes.

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            Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            

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   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   I've always wondered why some men feel the need to hurt women. Fear, maybe?

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   logic,commonsenseposted 14 years ago

   The context is everything!  I do not believe in demeaning anyone and especially the special women..er ladies here in Hubpages!

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      Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      

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   Disturbiaposted 14 years ago

   Sugar doesn't offent me.  I've been called worse.

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      lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm  with you Disturbia, hello by the way.

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         logic,commonsenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Lyrics, good to see you sugar!  How ya been?

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            lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Baby, doing good, taking it slow and sweet, honey xo

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    Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

    mmmmmmmmm, sugar

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       Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       noooo- the line is 'mmmmmmmm, donuts'.
       
       but you might get in trouble callind a woamn yo hardly know 'donut'.

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    AdeleCosgroveBrayposted 14 years ago

    Personally, I find that kind of thing over-familiar.  But all to our own, I guess.

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    sophsposted 14 years ago

    It only offends me when my ex starts an argument with me, then calls me sugar in a cocky, arrogant and patronising way, pfftt men! Lol

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       sophsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Actually it doesn't offend me, it just makes me think, ohhhh what a moron you are hahaha

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       Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    I introduce me current spouse as "My first wife".
    
    She LOVES it

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Huh, I just call your wife.....

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    lovemychrisposted 14 years ago

    In my day, it was "Hun". The ex still calls women that.....he's SO yesterday!

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    donotfearposted 14 years ago

    Had a boss once who always used the term 'Sis' when lecturing. Made me sick. Talked down to us like we were infidels. His hightlight of the day was calling his morning meeting, "All right....time for class".  Ugh.  Then referring to us when talking to a contractor as 'his ladies'..    Ug ug ug.  So glad the nightmare is over. His other good one was "Don't play 40 questions with me!"  Not exactly sexist, but demeaning.

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I had a boss refer to me a few times as his N***er.  He thought that since I was white, I would not take offense.  I pulled him aside and mentioned that I was half black, and that I found his remarks very offensive and possibly worthy of a discrimination lawsuit in that the remarks and comments about my job security were made in front of witnesses.
       
       He stammered a bit, appologized, and trying to regain his composure, asked which of my parents was black.  I told him that I never said I had a black parent, I said that I was 1/2 black. His facial contortions showed that he clearly didn't understand, so I offered to show him.
       
       I unbuckled my pants, started lowering my zipper.....
       
       The point was made.

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          Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Oh.. I get it... Pigmies are from Africa, right? 

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             Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Hiyooooooooooo

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    figmentposted 14 years ago

    No it doesn't bother me

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    Chaotic Chicaposted 14 years ago

    It all depends on the context in which it's said and who is saying it.  Most of the time it doesn't bother me.  Then again I'm pretty hard to offend, many of my friends are male and I lean towards  predominantly male hobbies so I understand how guys talk and which guys actually mean the chauvanistic (sp) things they say and which don't.  For those that mean it to be condensending, they'll get to see the side of my I prefer to not show.  Being in a man's world doesn't mean I have to lose my manners.

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    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    Ooh - this is something that irks a lot of people.    Whether or not it's intended to be nice or to be belittling, I pretty much find it ignorant and rude - and bad, bad, bad.   So do most of the other people I know (including women, men, or young people).  Just yesterday I overheard a young guy complaining about a woman who called him "hon".   When women us "dear" and "hon" it's just as aggravating, even if they're mean to be nice (which a lot of times they're not).
    
    A car salesmen (very nice, not intending to be offensive, and a lot of younger than I ) once called me - get this - "Sweet Pea".  It REALLY wasn't very flattering because it was pretty obvious I wasn't three years old, which only means someone isn't seeing you as an equal adult.  (I don't call the guy at my bank "Sweet Pea", do I?     )
    
    I don't mind "dear" from someone I know well and someone who's a lot older than I am, when it's clear they're using a genuine "term of endearment".  Other than that, everyone needs to keep their "dear's" and their "Sweet Pea's" to themselves.

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       luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Here...here.

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    Beth100posted 14 years ago

    It really depends in the context it is used and how it is said. 
    
    If said in a condescending tone, then no. 
    
    If said in a loving and affectionate way, then yes. 
    
    In some regions, it's quite second hand to call someone, even by strangers, a pet name such as hon, sugar, darlin', dear etc.  I always consider where I am, and act accordingly. 
    
    I've been called worse, so sugar wouldn't offend me.

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    Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

    Sugar,
    
    The whole point of using a term of endearment during a disagreement IS to be be-little-ing, it is also a sign that he has nothing better to use...so it means you're winning...
    
    Peace and Love, Hunny err Sweety-pie...sugar-britches...   

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       Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, Babycakes, you're right
       
       But it's still kinda pathetic to see that in this day and age.

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          Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          True...
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          
          ...Baby-cakes...   

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             Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             

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    blondepoetposted 14 years ago

    As long as you are not cussing at me, call me anything you like.

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       Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Manly? 
       
       
       Hey there sweetie, been a couple days since I seen ya. How's Norma?

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          blondepoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Gidday Mikel Norma is great..She is hanging out with John at the moment cause she is pretty upset with Cal. There are only so many puncture repairs a gal can endure lol.

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             Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             

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    AEvansposted 14 years ago

    It doesn't bother me nor do I feel it is condescending, it is there sarcastic figure of speech not ours,at least they are not cussing you out like a truck driver they are being very diplomatic and respectful that is how I see it anyway.

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       Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Depends on how it makes you feel. If you've asked him not to do it and he does it anyway because he KNOWS it hurts you, that is one low livin' scumbag.

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          Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I only read that one post and now I'm afraid to read the rest.

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             Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Oh come on Sab Oh, you've probably seen the thread . . .

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          AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well then I would be offended especially if I have asked him politely and he continued I believe at that point he is being quite sarcastic or maybe he has a little fixation with you. Don't let it bother you , you are above that.

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             Petra Vlahposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I don't find anything sweet about being called "sugar" by a stranger, no matter the tone of voice

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          Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          We can agree on that. Everyone is entitled to be addressed as they wish. I was unfortunate to be a "junior" and for years my grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles called me "Ralphie" to distinguish me from my father. Even after my father died someone would occasionally call me "Ralphie." As I result I'm not a believer in naming children after their parents. Everyone should have his or her own name. (Naming them after rich uncles is okay!)

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    Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago

    Being the low livin' scumbag in question, I want to put the issue in context. MadamX wants to make a major issue about being called 'sugar' which I did and shouldn't have.
    
    In the post where it happened called 'Indefensable' she was defending the Teabaggers who spit on Congressmen, called the black memebers 'ni@@er' and Barney Frank, who is openly gay 'fa@@ot'. And she's upset about being called 'sugar'??!!
    
    "Me thinks the woman doth protest too much."
    
    (Shakespere paraphrased)

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       AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       @ Doug I went back and read the thread before commenting and did not find any derogatory statement from Madame X pointing that she was defending "teabaggers." There were multiple arguments referencing a video,if it existed or not but nothing reflecting that she was racist. " She did make comment about your remark reflecting on the negative word that bothers my ears, but basically I had only seen a mild disagreement on teabaggers. You sarcastically called her 'Sugar'. So maybe there should be a truce on this hub that is what I would recommend.
       
       They are only words and we should not allow our emotions on either side to be swept away by our own opinions. To many great writers, to little time to argue just get along.

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          Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I never called her a racist. If you read the article from CNN,  the report indicated that multiple witnesses, including THREE members of Congress. a CNN producer and the Capitol police verified the incident she wants to defend by denial. With no basis in fact.
          
          The world took note when the President of Iran tried to deny the Holocaust. Such a rewrite of the facts to suit your personal prejudice is dangerous.  This is a microcosm of that same issue. Germany in the 1930 was taken over by thugs - I see the same tactics here. There's an organized attempt to undermine America as a democracy - substitute 'republic' which conservatives will define to suit their ends. There's an attempt to intimidate elected officials with acts of violence.
          
          Great writers like Harriet Beecher Stowe did not try to get along. They wrote forcefully and changed history. I am not in that league of writer, but I do recognize the power of what Samuel Clemmons called 'a pen warmed up in hell'.

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             AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I only reviewed the thread however I have not had the time to review the article from CNN do you have a link? I honestly try not to get to wrapped in the politics thread there tends to me quite a bit of mudslinging but I would be happy to read the article if you could provide the link.

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    Madame Xposted 14 years ago

    What I said was that there was no evidence that it happened, and there was a video that showed that it did not, to which I provided a link.
    
    I would never defend such actions by anyone.
    
    Sexist, condescending, personal slurs are not an argument to prove that it did happen.
    
    Once again, I ask you to please stop calling me sexist and demeaning names, even if we don't agree politically.

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       Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "These are our fellow countrymen who are exercising their right to protest peaceably against actions of their government that they disagree with. To vilify them is unconscionable."
       
       Based entirely on your affection for the teabagger movement, you are willing to disregard THREE Congressmen, a CNN producer, and the Capitol Police. A total denial of reality and an attempt to rewrite events to your liking. 
       
       Your tea party buddies are thugs. I will give you an example from today.
       
       "Law enforcement authorities are investigating the discovery of a cut propane gas line at the Virginia home of Rep. Thomas Perriello’s (D-Va.) brother, whose address was targeted by tea party activists angry at the congressman’s vote for the health care bill. "
       
       Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/03 … z0j8l3Zvfw
       
       These domestic terrorist idiots thought they were publishing the address of the Congressman, but they got the address that they posted onthe Internet wrong. I said they were idiots. Fortunately no one got hurt, but the act of publishing the address was an invitation to violence.  Anybody who wants to 'buddy' with this group is an 'associate thug' - and it would be improper to use any nickname as endearing as 'sugar'.
       
       Football and Politics are full-contact sports. I won'tcall you anything half as bad as I have been called on the forums (without pressing the 'Notify' button, I may add) but don't expect me to cater  to your sensitive nature.
       
       "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
       
       Harry Truman, not speaking to a woman, so spare me  the complaint about sexism.

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          Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          This thread is not about the political argument of the other thread. It's about common decency and good manners. You know, that thing you found so lacking in the Tea Partiers.
          
          I knew an apology would not be forthcoming . . .

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       Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       In my opinion, "sugar" doesn't come close to being a "personal slur." Where I grew up (Louisiana), admitedly long before the age of enlightenment wrt these things, "sugar," "sugh" sp?, and "honey" or "hon" "sweetie" or "darlin" were considered friendly greetings. Now, "scumbag" is another matter.

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          Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          It's one way with MadamX and her buddies. They can call me anything, but I am required to be politically correct. She can lie through her teeth defending her  buddies who called US Congressmen "ni@@er" and "Fa@@ot" - and I am crossing the line if I call her 'sugar'.
          
          I never saw such bald-faced hypocracy in my life.

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             Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             She's lacking a fairness gene, among others.

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    Madame Xposted 14 years ago

    Thanks AEvans - I appreciate that you took the time to investigate the truth.

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    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    i know, right?
    
    
    ...Ishmael.

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       AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Mmm, I'm going to have to take a stab at that one... Moby Dick?

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          cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          
          yesh~

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    Rayalternatelyposted 14 years ago

    it's all about the context. If I said, thanks love, flower, mate, etc, or many other words with my northern English accent it would most likely seem natural and amiable or affectionate.
    
    If I said come here bi-atch and get me a drink, that would be an entirely different proposition, and I might well expect a slap for it!

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    PrettyPantherposted 14 years ago

    I have been called many things I am not on these forums, and they were not meant as compliments, and I've only been here 3 months.  Being called "sugar" would be a welcome change.  Doug, I'm jealous.
    
    

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       Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Sandra, I liked your hubs about Viet Nam, and I respect that you think for yourself on the forums.  I would call you 'sugar' but I read on your profile you have a bf - maybe also the jealous type?  Thank you.

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          PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Naw, he actually likes it when other men compliment me. Makes him feel proud.  Maybe Madame X would think that's sexist?

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             Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Well if it might offend MadamX,...
             Sugar, you are the best!

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                PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                LOL!  Thanks.  Back atcha.

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    Sab Ohposted 14 years ago

    This is all quite the unpleasant display.

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    myownworldposted 14 years ago

    I don't mind any term of endearment: 'Honey', 'darling', whatever.
    It all depends on who's using it, and why!
    
    And of course, I am great at going deaf when I want....so that always helps...

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31. 0

    Madame Xposted 14 years ago

    Sexism always gets my goat. So does verbal abuse. And while many may feel that it's mild, compared to other things they've been called, it is important to smack a sexist hard the very first time he decides he can be condescending. Maybe, next time, he might just think twice about his behavior.
    
    Although, in this case, it's is obvious I haven't made a dent.

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       Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       mild leads to worse...

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          Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Precisely.

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             Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             

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32. 63

    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    I once called a flight attendant "air wench".. not sure what the big deal was

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Maybe she thought you said wrench.

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    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    ironically enough... i was about to order a screwdriver... but for some reason I she hit me before i got out the driver part.
    
    Damn Virgin Airlines

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       Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       mmmmmmmmm,
       
       virgins

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          Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          There's a cure for that..

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             Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             yeah........
             
             I like being a cure

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                Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                It's a dirty job but....

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34. 63

    Alucard_1990posted 14 years ago

    I've never really thought about this. But I know that anytime a man belittles a woman, it's because society pressures him to. I think all of that is coming to an end soon though. I wrote a hub about it lol

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