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Too much taxation will kill business? Weigh in?

  1. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Hey Hubbers,

    I know everyone has their own view about it, but I'd like to get your view about it.

    Is the taxation on business too much?

    Please realize- any taxation business incurs is passed along to you the citizen.

    So, technically, you pay taxes twice on certain products.

    Recently, in Mass the price of cigarettes have sky-rocketed and due solely to taxation. There is now more taxation on the product than the product is actually costs. Yes, the taxes on the product surpass the cost of the product.

    Isn't this destructive to businesses? And, unfair to citizens?

    Btw- on a side note, if you happen to know how much cigarettes cost feel free to let me know and where you are located. I am curious to see the different prices across America. Outside the U.S. is irrelevant to my question. Sorry, no offense. wink big_smile

    1. BDazzler profile image84
      BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Two of my buddies smoke cigarettes, I do not. (I do smoke the occasional pipe or cigar but it's typically less than once a week for either.)

      They have purchased tubes with filters, a machine, and "pipe tobacco" ... they got a tobacco grinder from a head shop (yeah, they're probably the only ones who use them to grind tobacco.)

      The basically set up a cigarette factory for personal use on my back porch. (I've got the most room).  The cigarettes don't stink they way commercial cigarettes do (I don't mind being around them near as much).  They get the taste they want (they blend the various tobaccos, including cigar tobacco sometimes).  It doesn't have the additives commercial cigarettes do (as much as 40% of commercial cigarettes are paper soaked in tobacco juice, not real tobacco).

      They enjoy the process of making them.  And they seem to smoke fewer of them.  The cost for the homemade cigarettes?   The equivalent of $1.25 per pack.

      1. KFlippin profile image60
        KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hey, write a hub on that with more details, and pictures for us technically challenged!

        1. BDazzler profile image84
          BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I thought about it briefly, but hubs that could result in violation of Adsense terms are not allowed. Google Adsense does not allow their ads on "pro tobacco" pages.  So, even if I did, it would violate hub pages terms of use, and I wouldn't want to do that.

          I think if you google the phrase "Make Own Cigarettes" you can find articles etc.

    2. tony0724 profile image59
      tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Cagsil you only have to look at the state of California to see what overtaxation and over regulation will do to an economy. We used to have the 12th largest economy in the world and then when progressive Democrats too over Sacramento therein went this economy into the toilet. I can't believe people will be dumb enough to think about re electing Jerry Brown who started this mess.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Tony, thank you for your input. I know the effects and hence, my reason for the thread. I know California is all screwed up, it's been all over the news, in every media aspect for a couple of years now. lol

    3. Ben Evans profile image74
      Ben Evansposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I am a small business owner.  I have survived but the taxes in the state of Washington are insane.  People dont understand the B&O tax and every little tiny tax.  They tax everything.

      There is now a tax on bottled water candy and I think cigerettes.  I understand the need for taxes but not at this rate.

    4. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think everyone must agree raising the cost of anything, either through taxes or just because of inflation, will have a tendency to reduce sales, at least temporarily.

      Still it's like filling a bottle of water to the brim and then adding another drop. Will the additional drop make it over flow? Perhaps not, but add another, and another at some point the next additional drop will make the bottle overflow. It's true with taxes. People will complain but will pay and they will pay more and more until, finally, the next tax brings revolution.

  2. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 6 years ago

    Quit smoking, Ray smile

    1. KeithTax profile image79
      KeithTaxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree. Some taxes are easily avoided.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you for you input Keith. hmm

  3. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    I figured that was coming. And, not unexpected from you. wink

  4. Arthur Fontes profile image89
    Arthur Fontesposted 6 years ago

    I think the people (the real market) adjusts itself.  The influx of blackmarket cigarettes in MA is a counter balance to the taxed gubment ciggys.

    With all the taxes levied at all levels of society the people have merely become beasts of burden.  Carrying a load that they neither want nor asked for, using instruments of debt as if they had value.

  5. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    There was a bill just signed and passed, which is making illegal for online websites, based in one state, to send cigarettes out of state.

    It is taking effect on June 30, 2010 that prevents them from doing so. hmm

  6. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Thank you for your input. smile

  7. Michael Willis profile image78
    Michael Willisposted 6 years ago

    More Taxing will hurt any business. Like you said, it is passed on to the customer. And the more it costs the customer, the less the products will eventually sell...which then means the business is less profitable and job cuts then happen.
    Then whether the tax is from the federal or state government...they see a loss in tax revenue and they look to add more taxes to offset the loss. It is like a snow-ball effect. It never ends.
    It is about time the Government takes a "sacrifice" in their spending and stop trying to "squeeze blood from the turnip." (So to speak!)

  8. BDazzler profile image84
    BDazzlerposted 6 years ago

    Congress, these days, thinks that our money belongs to them "by right", and they will find as many ways to take it from us to give it to the people who voted for them to keep them in power.  They call it "helping" the "poor, underprivileged etc."   That used to be the role of charities.  Consider Davy Crockett's take on it as a congressman:

    "We have rights, as individuals, to give as much of our own money as we please to charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of public money."

    Of course, he also said ...

    "There ain't no ticks like poly-ticks. Bloodsuckers all."

    Evidently this has been going on for a while. Would that we had statesman like Davy Crockett in congress these days.

  9. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    But Michael, what do they cost where you are? Do you know?

    1. Michael Willis profile image78
      Michael Willisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Cigarettes? lol, I don't smoke. (Asthma) Sorry. I was responding to the first part of the post your wrote about taxing a business.  But I do know that a new tax did pass on all tobacco products last summer that added 50 cents to a dollar depending on the type of tobacco. I think the cigarettes got the dollar added. Maybe there is another hubber from Arkansas here that can verify my statement.
      BTW...good to see you again. I am "hoping---fingers crossed" this replacement computer lasts.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Nice to see you too Michael. I too hope your system lasts. smile

  10. wilderness profile image95
    wildernessposted 6 years ago

    I would have to agree with Michael; taxes hurt business.  Not much, if any more, than taxes on individuals; either way there is less money to spend on what the earner wants.

    However, there are many, many taxes that are not so much intended to increase govt. income as to control people.  The cigarette tax is one such - it will keep going up until very few people can afford to smoke.  THAT is the goal - not increased income.  When any product is taxed so high no one can afford it, the store will close.  I guess you could say it would be hurt.

    Cigarettes in Idaho are a little over $4.

  11. Rafini profile image85
    Rafiniposted 6 years ago

    In regard to cigarette taxes - the purpose is to legally prohibit cigarettes by driving tobacco products off the market due to the expense.  The government learned their mistake with Prohibition and decided to go the legal route with Tobacco.  hmm  (just my  two cents)

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      But, doesn't the government risk invading on the Declaration of Independence? when it takes this route. I mean, it directly violates it.

      One of the reasons for the Declaration of Independence was based on excessive taxation from the English(British).

      Therefore, when excessive taxation appears, it isn't any different than what America was founded on. How is that legal? hmm

      1. Rafini profile image85
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree.  However, people today aren't getting upset over it like they did back then.  Probably because of the lack of communication with our elected officials by the majority and the fact that the new taxes were reported to be the payment by smokers to fund health care reform as well as offset rising medical costs (not really sure how that works, except where we have state funded hospitals)

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you for your input. Much appreciated. smile

      2. BDazzler profile image84
        BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, good ... YOU just got on Janet Napolitano 's list of "Groups or individuals who vehemently believe taxes violate their constitutional rights."

        That's a quote on who the DHS was looking for while the "White Guy in His 40s"  ... oops  ... turns out it was a young Islamic Extremist was busy planting a bomb in Times Square. [Edited]

        How DARE you you assert that you have some kind of God-given unalienable Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I did not say that I disapproved of taxes.....too much taxation is another story.


          lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

  12. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    I am of the understanding that the tax increases on the cigarettes in every state and plus a boost from federal has become a detriment of the entire business.

    However, what many people do not realize is that the companies that put out cigarettes are diverse, with businesses in other aspects as well. Once you take one down, the others have to compensate...thus pricing structures dramatically change to account for the overall loss.

    The main problem is the average person isn't looking at the Economy, with the eyes that they should be, because they are having so many other problems. Not to mention, the level of society and fear already generated have people in seclusion.

    And, most people are trouble making ends meet as it is. hmm

  13. Ohma profile image79
    Ohmaposted 6 years ago

    Cagsil
    I do not have much to say about the whole taxation thing because it would basically be a recap of what you have already said.
    Ciggs here are over $6 a pack for premiums and over $5 for generics. even the roll your owns that were mentioned above are working out to something like $3 a pack.
    And now I am going to give my age away. I remember as a child (when it was legal for my folks to send us to the store for cigs) paying 50 cents a pack for them. LOL we have come a long way from there haven't we? big_smile

    1. Rafini profile image85
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      lol  I remember that!  Not the price, so much, but running to the store for a pack of Kools for my mom, sometimes with a note for the store, and then when I was about 11 they changed the law.  I think you had to be 16 to buy cigarettes (or they went directly to 18 - I don't remember, I was just a kid!!)

  14. profile image69
    logic,commonsenseposted 6 years ago

    The problem is that the government continues to spend more money that it does not have.  Regardless of federal, state, or local jurisdiction.
    They have to come up with some way of funding their addiction to spending as they do not have the courage or vision to cut spending.  Nor do the masses have the self discipline to control their desire for a handout from the government.  Therefore, some method of new taxation is required to give the perception that legislators are concerned about the burden of taxes they have put upon the taxpayer.  Regardless of the promise of tax cuts, they will not truly cut taxes.  They can't and still maintain pork projects for their constituents.
    All we can do is keep their feet to the fire and get rid of the ones who do not respond to our desire for decreased taxation.

    1. Rafini profile image85
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nor do the masses have the self discipline to control their desire for a handout from the government. 


      just who are you referring to?

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Approximately 70% of American citizens are using some government program, if not 100%.

        The deceptive notion that government is suppose to provide anything other than domestic and foreign threats is the problem.

        If you work a job, you are using two government programs.
        If you are a business, you are forced to use a government program.
        If you use social security you are using a government program.

        Government regulations on companies and the agencies that do the job are meaningless, because of corruption and laziness. The regulatory agencies are suppose to be in place to protect citizens against being manipulated by business, but fail to do so.

        Government ineffective monetary policy has cost citizens trillions.

        1. Rafini profile image85
          Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          http://www.usdebtclock.org/

          40,000,000 use food stamps and I understand the social security, but how are businesses forced?
          If you work a job, you're using 2 government programs?  How?  Which ones?  I ask, because seriously, I wasn't aware of using any government programs while being employed.

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Business are forced by each state to handle a specific wage. The State controls the wages paid for services. The Federal Government subsidizes an "employment" program and "minimum wage" program, which business are forced to pay into in order to operate in America.



            As I said above- "Employment" and "Minimum Wage" are both government programs offered to everyone. The standards for your employment are handled via State and Federal laws.

            To control businesses from charging slavery type wages.

            1. Rafini profile image85
              Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              oh, um, okay.  I guess I thought employment had something to do with free enterprise and the minimum wage was a law not a program.  Yes, the standards are handled via laws which is acceptable.  Otherwise we would return to sweatshop horror days in a heartbeat - no doubt about it, corporate America is full of greed. 

              So, even though minimum wage has been in effect for 72 years, states override the minimum wage law by dictating how much workers deserve to be paid?  And I'm assuming the Federal subsidy you refer to is Social Security or Unemployment Insurance - I don't see a problem with either....are you trying to say businesses shouldn't have to pay, only the government should have to pay?

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, State overrides Federal minimum wage, but only for non-federal employees. As far as I know, a State can choose to have it's own minimum wage setting, but gets less funding from Federal aid, because of non-compliance. The Federal government loves to play that card- comply are lose funding. And, people wonder why so many states are having problems.

                What I am saying is there are too many hands in the cookie jar and becoming a serious problem.

              2. outdoorsguy profile image60
                outdoorsguyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Rafini let me telll you a little story about minimum wage raise.. before the last min wage raise. I had seven employees at my Restaurant full time. and three   part time.. we had already cut back.. because, even though it wasnt announced, the economy was already starting to tank and we were feeling the first waves. 

                realize that Payroll is one of the biggest expensises in most small buisiness's.  so when the new wage took affect.. I had to let go half our staff.  in order to keep paying the taxes, and ordering the supplies.  though I also knew that we would end up closing becuase of the steady loss of business.  but I kept trying. 

                in Better times,  I would have just raised prices like every other business would do to offset the new increase.

                every little fee, and tax that local to Federal governments enact raises your costs.   just look at the Ethanol program and how food prices jumped as did fuel costs. 

                Hell IM a fan of more regulation and less taxation. LOL

                1. Rafini profile image85
                  Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry, didn't see this until now.

                  Couldn't you have created a new menu with smaller portions charged at a similar rate?  I understand what you're saying, but I'm thinking desperate times call for desperate measures and the possibility of a new menu may have kept things going for you. 

                  I've noticed some restaurants change their menu on an almost regular basis...while keeping to the same theme.

          2. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            unemployment insurance
            workmens compensation
            FICA
            possibly Davis Bacon Act
            OT wages
            Minimum wages

            1. Rafini profile image85
              Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              okay, I can rethink these into being programs.  Except the wages...that doesn't really make sense. 

              Minimum wage is a program?  I really think it's a law.  Overtime wages is a program?  I really think it's a law.  A law doesn't equal a program....and OT wages can be handled differently, such as: either when an employee works more than 8 hours in a day they are paid OT, or when an employee works more than 40 hours in a week they are paid OT.

              Even if these things are indeed government programs, I don't see how it can be considered for citizens to be desirous of handouts from the government - IF the government dictates these 'programs' are in existence to be used by all.

  15. Doug Hughes profile image59
    Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago

    We are discussing if high taxes are inappropriate for a business that produces a slow poison that kills people. Like maybe it would be beneficial to lower taxes to make the business more healthy so they could sell more cigs and kill more people...

    That's the question?

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nice to see a completely outrageous mouth run off. Nothing like OPEN FREE MARKETS where any product can be sold???

      I can see you're for suppression of business that doesn't see life like you do. Oh yeah, good job. roll

      I would expect you to understand that America operates a Open Free Market Society, and ANY product can be sold. It is the choice of the people to buy the product.

      This is about the over TAXATION on those businesses, as well, as the costs that the public is under, because nutjobs want to suppress other people individual rights and freedom of choice.

      Therefore, you'll spout off your words, but will have little value to the conversation, just like your last post.

      Boy, you cannot even see past yourself can you? roll

      1. Doug Hughes profile image59
        Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Boy, you cannot even see past yourself can you?"

        I saw my mother die of lung cancer.

        If high taxes will discourage people - particularly young people from developing the habit, I think the imposition on those who choose to feed their addiction is worth it.   I haven't and don't support a ban on tobacco.

        Kill yourself however you like - but society is entitled to discourage the public from developing an addiction to a substance that only makes smoke and profit via pain and death.

      2. Misha profile image76
        Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOL Ray, how can you seriously talk to a person who at the age they pretend to be still believe that communism is a viable solution, just was not properly implemented yet? Come on smile

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol lol lol lol lol lol

        2. Doug Hughes profile image59
          Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If you are referring to me - you are seriously distorting my position on communism.  I dearly love to mix it up on the forums, but I take exception to hubbers making stuff up  about me.  And again, if you are referring to me, what does my age have to do with anything, and on what basis do you suggest I am pretending?  Do send an email to MadamX for advice before you start making stuff up about me.

          1. BDazzler profile image84
            BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            This certainly looks like a comment from someone who believes that properly lead ... Communism would have worked ... all it needed was the right leadership ...

            Is that or is that not your position?

            1. Doug Hughes profile image59
              Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Sorry this took so long - some people think I am a career blogger but I sleep and work.  My comments on a different post equated the capacity for capitalism OR communism to create a 'bubble' . IMO, the colapse of the USSR was cause by a bubble institutionalized by the Communist Party system. Everyone in authority in the USSR was privileged (rich) and was committed to not rocking the boat -  in order to preserve their party perks. On Wall Street, a variant of that ethic created the bubble we are trying to recover from. The privilged on Wall Street are committed to the myth of capitalism as a productive force. Capitalism does a good job of making rich people richer.

              Both systems suck. If I had to choose between the 2 economic systems, I would choose capitalism because in a capitalistic system - combined with democracy - there CAN be a force to offset the abuses of capitalsm -  and that force is a strong central government. In the USSR Communism could not police itself to root out the corruption, waste and stupidity - because it required there be an agency of the government stronger than the government..

              You asked a good question - if my answer isn't clear, follow up with counterpoint and questions.

              1. BDazzler profile image84
                BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I think, based on the above  ... that you are saying that you prefer a highly regulated planned capitalistic system because both big government and big business will offset the inherent evil in each other...

                Is that closer?

                1. BDazzler profile image84
                  BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  (Ray, not trying to hijack the thread ... trying to get enough info to try to usefully bring it back to your over-taxation without it turning into another name calling left wing vs. right wing thing  ... again... )  Maybe even have a civilized discussion ... maybe. smile

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Maybe? lol

                2. Doug Hughes profile image59
                  Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  And I am not trying to hijck the thread - I was answering questions that were off-topic. Answer : Closer. Keeping in mind this discussion is theoretical -  I believe in government regulation where there is risk to the public. The recession and the Gulf spill are examples of where regulation and inspection were inadequite. Government should represent the people - and it doesn't do that well enough yet by a long shot. The role between regulators and business should be adversarial - not cozy.  In theory - there needs to be a wall between goverrnment and business as firm as the wall of separation between church and state.  Who the government represents is unclear in the minds of legislators.

                  There's no inherent evil in business or government.  BP never intended to dump millions of gallons of oil in the Gulf.  But there was that risk that neither BP nor the government properly addressed in advance.  The Oil industry is looking out for their profts- and the government was looking out for the oil companies when the leases were allowed.  Using this as an example - by my theory - the government should have been lookout for the interests of the people.  This adversarial relationship pit's one 500-lb gorilla (gov't) against a second 500 lb gorilla (big biz) as the only way of giving the little guy a chance in a world economy dominated by economic entities more powerful than most countries.

                  1. BDazzler profile image84
                    BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Fair enough ... I will keep that position in mind when I consider the context of your other comments (past and future).

  16. profile image0
    kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago

    I certainly don't know enough about our Canadian/Toronto economy except to say at $10.50 a pack for 25 cig's or rather $100 about for a carton, I see as taxes increase every 6 months, things seem to not change at all.

    Maybe because most of us, me included, have found a way to get cigs from our Indian Reservations through illegal means or stores that will slip them under the counter in a brown bag for you.  I's say 45 % of stores are doing this now.

    However we are not allowed to purchase cigarettes only from variey stores.  No drug stores or now gas stations.

    The Indian runners are making a fortune, selling in bulk, not required to pay taxes, in the end, me the consumer, pays $4 pack / just over 25% for a product that quickly becomes no different than our $10 packs.

    I reckon this is why they keep taxing our smokes lol

    anyways................

    I need a light - can afford a lighter now thanks to our Indians!!!!!!!!!

    AND THEY SHOULD BE GETTING THEIR MONEY

    THEY DEERVE ALCOHOL AS MUCH AS THE REST OF US big_smile

    I am part Indian btw

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Kimberly. smile

  17. DevLin profile image61
    DevLinposted 6 years ago

    I smoke little cigars at $3 a pack. Cigs are $8. The taxation will bring about more inflation, and we'll start looking like the Eastern Bloc did when the Soviet Union was in charge. High unemployment, inflation, and rich corporations. the elite, and working classes.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your input. smile

  18. Evan G Rogers profile image83
    Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago

    Every tax on any thing any where is an income tax.

    No matter what is taxed, it will be reflected in the real wages of the populace.

    Taxes are a virus that need to be stamped out; government is incapable of doing anything properly.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What you say isn't possible. The complete end to taxation is not possible because things to cost. The operations of government is what really needs reform....too many agencies failing to do their jobs...if they're not going to do their job properly, why should it be funded?

      What do they think it is going to get better as time goes on? Oh, please. hmm

      Too many spending, no fiscal policy, no fiscal constraint, no monetary policy and a workable printing press on the verge of falling apart at the Federal Reserve Bank(which is not owned or operated by the government).

      Too much taxation on the people, the Economy will completely collapse and ruin whatever value is left in America. If the dollar collapses, we are in for some real serious hard times.

  19. Ralph Deeds profile image69
    Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago

    Speaking of taxes being too high:

    BUCKS STOPPING HERE: Americans paid lowest level of taxes last year since Truman

    Federal, state and local taxes -- including income, property, sales and others -- consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reported last week.

    That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010.

    1. tony0724 profile image59
      tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No people working equals no taxes.

      1. Shadesbreath profile image89
        Shadesbreathposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yep.

        The trick is to avoid the liberal knee-jerk reaction of jacking up taxes to increase temporary revenue and destroy the foundation of a strong, recovered nation.

        You can't tax your way to prosperity. It's like a tick arguing with a Purina executive about the best way to make a stronger dog.

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          lol lol lol lol lol
          lol lol lol lol lol
          lol lol lol lol lol
          lol lol lol lol lol
          lol lol lol lol lol
          lol lol lol lol lol
          lol lol lol lol lol




          Sorry, ROFL just doesn't cover it. lol

      2. Ralph Deeds profile image69
        Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The figure I cited was for the percentage of taxes paid on earnings. The unemployment rate would not affect this figure. Decreases in earnings would affect it.

    2. Doug Hughes profile image59
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nice post Ralph.

      Unfortunately -
      You can lead a wingnut to information
      but you can't make him think.

      You don't have to scroll  too far  to see what I mean.

    3. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      For every $1 of earned income, 15 cents (15%) is paid in FICA taxes.  This does not count income taxes, multiple levels of sales taxes, gas guzzler tax, gas, liquor or cigarette taxes, automotive taxes renamed "fees", corporate taxes or any other taxes.  Heck, I even pay $100+ per year tax for the "availibilty" of water for my lawn!

      I find your figure of 9.2% just a wee bit suspect.

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Like I said earlier...too many other factors left out. yikes wink

    4. outdoorsguy profile image60
      outdoorsguyposted 6 years ago in reply to this
  20. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Hmmm.....? Sounds like not all the information is contained within your statement and I know too many things have already been "factored" in to any baked numbers you come up with.

    However, I'm not going to argue about that, because that would deter from what I am talking about. Just because reported taxes annual earning is the problem.

    It the over taxation on everything else. Lower taxes on annual income, but higher taxes on everything else under the sun.

    It is destructive to the Economy and unfair burden on citizens, all because politicians are greedy and cannot get enough or have agendas with corporations. Which is another story all together.

  21. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    However, both yours and Misha's, were completely useless to the topic at hand, so what good did it do?

    Unbelievable. roll

  22. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 6 years ago

    LOL David, I wouldn't bother. Wait a minute, I did not bother! lol

    1. BDazzler profile image84
      BDazzlerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I know, I know ... You'd think they'd listen to someone like you who was actually there!

      1. Misha profile image76
        Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        LOL Ray seems to get annoyed with off-top on this thread - so I better shut up smile

        1. Cagsil profile image60
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Actually Misha, I do not have a problem bringing forth a topic, but I would prefer it to have some connection to the topic. I am sure you can think of a lot of things connected to this singular problem.

          That's all. I do not ask for much. wink

  23. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Thank you for your input. smile Appreciated.

  24. MikeNV profile image75
    MikeNVposted 6 years ago

    "For every $1 of earned income, 15 cents (15%) is paid in FICA taxes.  This does not count income taxes, multiple levels of sales taxes, gas guzzler tax, gas, liquor or cigarette taxes, automotive taxes renamed "fees", corporate taxes or any other taxes.  Heck, I even pay $100+ per year tax for the "availability" of water for my lawn!

    I find your figure of 9.2% just a wee bit suspect."

    Suspect?  Nah... it's pure fantasy.

    People who are career "job" holders who don't actually run their own businesses really don't have a clue about the amount of taxation.  People also pay little attention to the "hidden" taxes we all pay.  In most states you buy a car... and pay sales tax. You sell your used car and it gets taxed again. You pay property tax for the right to live in the home your supposedly own. Your utilities are taxed.  Your phone bill is taxed.  Your vehicles are taxed.  When you buy products they are taxed.  When truckers drive state to state they are taxed.  Gasoline is taxed. As you mentioned there are plenty of sin taxes. Hotel rooms are taxed. Rental cars are taxed.

    It's would be much much easier to list things that are not taxed.... anyone want to start that list?

    Americans are heavily taxed.  I pay somewhere near 40% of my Gross Business Income in taxes each year.  It's no joke.

    I pay 15.3% payroll tax alone.  Sales tax in most states is at least 5%.  Turns out that is NOT less than 9.2%.

    But hey maybe there are people out there who only pay 9% right?  People that don't actually have a job so they don't have any income to spend?

  25. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    Hey Mike,

    I really do not know what your problem seems to be. I have noticed you on many different threads, and the tone in your words, make it appear as though you hate life.

    I mean seriously, you are way tense and need to chill or relax, get laid or get stoned, but do it soon man.

    I realize you get offended and then you want to prove people wrong, but you come off as "look at me, I am a voice" type of mentality. And, to be quite honest, you're really getting annoying. The constant repetitive "attacks" on others that could be reported but are not, because some people realize you have a right to you expression.

    But, seriously, dial it down a notch. There are simply too many factors that are included in the overall numbers of America.

    My point here was that if they are going to tax heavily one individual product, simply because it is bad for people...then they are going to piss off the citizens, because 80%+ of the foods and drinks we each have is bad for humans in some way, shape or form.

    I am talking about open free market place where anyone and I mean, anyone can sell any product for a price. The taxation issues are huge and what people make in earnings per year isn't even on topic of this conversation.

    So, please. wink

  26. Doug Hughes profile image59
    Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago

    "I mean seriously, you are way tense and need to chill or relax, get laid or get stoned, but do it soon man."

    Mike is in NV (I guess) the only state where ummmmm - how to say it - free-enterprise affection is legal. Maybe we should pass the hat and send him a surprise and see if it affects his disposition?

  27. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    I want less taxation that drives business and invades a person right to life and freedom of choice.

    I do not mind taxes, but too much taxation on businesses, who pass it along to the buyer(most of it at least) and State government applied taxation on top of it, is a bit ridiculous.

    I also want more EFFECTIVE regulation. These morons who are in charge of regulating these businesses, should be doing a damn better job, considering what they are paid.

    So, I guess it goes without saying- MORE Efficient Government.

  28. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 6 years ago

    The Government has been way too cozy with BIG business for far too long, going on something like about 20+ years or longer. I am only 41, so...I can only go by what I've experienced and learned.

    Yes, I do realize it's been going on longer than that, but not this cozy. I mean, all sorts of businesses are now getting into because of ineffective and inefficient government reprisals.

    Many advocate groups, special interests groups and lobbyists, have continued to shape, unjustified laws and taxation, simply because they can make enough noise, so it appears as if the majority is actually talking.

    There is an advocate group in Mass, trying to make Mass Tobacco Free. This is in direct violation of the Open Free Market place America is based on. This group has made enough noise, that the prices on tobacco products is skyrocketed. You now pay more tax than cost of the product???

    How is that fair? The reason for increased taxes were to fund the State's Everyone Must HAVE Medical Coverage program and Law.

    It is suppose to help fund it, so everyone can have affordable health care and support those who have no insurance by covering them(MassHealth).

    Then the Federal government has raised the tobacco tax too. So, that gets applied as well.

    Absolutely absurd. hmm

    Sorry, just my ranting, which started this thread. I'm just venting.

  29. MikeNV profile image75
    MikeNVposted 6 years ago

    Cagsil

    Apparently your EGO is super-sized.

    You can choose not to read my posts.  What is annoying is you.  Period.

    So I'll do you the favor of ignoring you non nonsensical ramblings based on nothing of substance.

    Perhaps you ego can take it or perhaps not.  But at least you can feel self important now.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I guess what people say is really true...."ignorance is truly bliss".

      My "ego" as you claim is super-sized. What do you live in a McDonalds?

      The attempts made by you to reveal certain aspects of life in America, are for your own self-serving purposes, to push whatever warped sense of thinking you seem to have.

      You do not spit out truth or even factual evidence. You keep hashing the same garbage, like most political ignorant fools.

      My "ego" is irrelevant to the conversation, because you make it irrelevant, instead of realizing you are wrong in the first place.

      How nice for you? hmm

  30. Internetwriter62 profile image88
    Internetwriter62posted 6 years ago

    Hi Cagsil, I agree the taxation we are experiencing is excessive. It is killing the economy.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Internetwriter, Yes it is too much. There are higher taxation on many products that are unjustified, separated by the fact that there are different regulations on them.

      It is driving out business and damaging the overall of the Economy. The problem stems from too many ignorant people walking around thinking that they have a handle on it and the truth of the matter is that many do not.

      Simply because they use the Economy wrong, instead of how it was intended.

  31. LeanMan profile image82
    LeanManposted 6 years ago

    Forget about your cigs and tax... I pay 12cents per litre for gas in my car.... But water costs me 25c per liter!!!

    I think you pay too much tax....

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Higher tax on water versus gas? That's funny! lol

  32. thisisoli profile image61
    thisisoliposted 6 years ago

    Business taxes should be cut during recession, a common sense move which has been largly ignored this time around.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It would be nice if they would admit that the U.S. Economy is still in the recessionary period that they claim we came out of already. Wouldn't it?

      The pathetic politicians forever lying to the public is really getting out of control and sooner or later, it's going to bite back.

      1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
        Arthur Fontesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Right now there is a government bubble.  The cost of government far exceeds its value.  IMO

        Raising taxes to sustain a level of living for government workers will only go on so long before the entire population becomes disenfranchised.

        Taking the yoke off of small businesses will not only enable them to hire more workers.  Maybe just maybe they will even be able to stay in business.

  33. outdoorsguy profile image60
    outdoorsguyposted 6 years ago

    its amazing how people realy dont understand the simpliest concepts in business. as a business owner.. or was till I closed thanks to the Taxs and the economy.   more than half the products you buy cost three to five times more than they are worth.  some products have almost a thousand percent mark up on them. 

    some is from the desire to make a profit.  but most are from the fees and the someimtes triple taxation placed on a product before it even hits the shelves.  then you can add in sales tax once you buy it. 

    just a note.. Gas.. most places that sell Fuel make if they are lucky five cents per gallon.   Gas is used as a way to get people inside a store to sell the money making things  snack food, drinks and candy.   of course most of you want believe that but thats fine.   

    take tobacco... In Tenn, the manufacturer pays a 6.2 percent tax on tobbacco, then theres the fees to do business and the Tax stamp fee.   then the distributor gets the product and  pays a fee on handling it, as well as fuel and delivery costs, contract costs etc...   then when it reaches the shelves, the state has a process where by Cigs have to be sold with in a ceritan price range usualy around 8 percent of the cost per pack.as well as the 7.2 percent sales tax.   so by the time you pay for them almost a thirty percent mark up on cost. 

    and they keep adding more fees and taxes.  currenlty im not even sure what the new total mark up is, though costs have jumped almost two to three dollars depending on the brand. 

    but it costs the manufacturer .75 cents to make a pack of cigs.   

    oh well. glad I dont run a store or the Restuarant anymore.  when I closed 75 percent of my income was goimg to taxes and payroll thanks to the new minimum wage increase.  what we needed was more business and less taxes and fees.

    1. Cagsil profile image60
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for your input. smile

 
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