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Obama Attacks Liberty In America By Executive Order

  1. leeberttea profile image61
    leebertteaposted 6 years ago

    Executive order 12425 was signed by Obama back in December. It essentially gives Interpol freedom to act as they deem necessary in the USA without regard to restraints of the constitution or US law. Unfortunately this is being used to attack and harass dissidents from Iran living in the USA.

    Why would Obama sign such an order? Why would he want to help Iran? Why is he willing to allow international agencies to circumvent the constitution and US law? Can anyone explain this to me? Is this a move to global governance by executive order?

    http://indyposted.com/22373/iran-uses-i … ts-abroad/

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off … rder-12425

    Executive Order -- Amending Executive Order 12425
    EXECUTIVE ORDER
    - - - - - - -
    AMENDING EXECUTIVE ORDER 12425 DESIGNATING INTERPOL
    AS A PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION ENTITLED TO
    ENJOY CERTAIN PRIVILEGES, EXEMPTIONS, AND IMMUNITIES
    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (22 U.S.C. 288), and in order to extend the appropriate privileges, exemptions, and immunities to the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL), it is hereby ordered that Executive Order 12425 of June 16, 1983, as amended, is further amended by deleting from the first sentence the words "except those provided by Section 2(c), Section 3, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 of that Act" and the semicolon that immediately precedes them.
    BARACK OBAMA
    THE WHITE HOUSE,
    December 16, 2009.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini … 91137.html

    1. 0
      LegendaryHeroposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Wow, that's crazy.

    2. Mike3537 profile image60
      Mike3537posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Just what this country needs more cops, we damn near live in a police state now, as the cameras are rolling and the walls around the boarder continue to rise.  This executive order, The Patriot Act, states legalizing profiling, where does it end?

  2. TMMason profile image74
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    Yup.

    Everyone ignored it when he signed it.

    Thats okay.

    Let some english cop show up at my door. Britain can pay to transport his dead body back to England and cover the cost of my ammo.

    1. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What really bothers me about this is how it is playing into the hands of the Iranian regime. I thought we wanted to get tough with Iran over their nuclear program. Why would we help them to harass dissidents in this country?
      Worse, why is it so easy for a president to sign away our constitutional liberty? No debate, no vote, no press, just an innocuous White House announcement. It's as if they just didn't want the American people to know about it, or what it means to our freedom.

      1. TMMason profile image74
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Executive orders are just a piece of paper man.

        it doesn't have the force of law and doesn't supercede the law. It will be tossed as soon as it is challenged.

        But then again, if Obama can stack the court....

        1. leeberttea profile image61
          leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It's already a law, his order only extends the coverage of immunity to Interpol.

        2. outdoorsguy profile image61
          outdoorsguyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          executive orders are not laws but they are treated as laws.. such as FEMA. created by Executive Order most of the emgency management protocols that are federally enforceable are Executive orders. 

          just a Constitutional Loophole they found just like the EPA and FCC now being allowed to pass laws,  can you say OSHA.  FEMA. FDA. etc..

      2. Rafini profile image85
        Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The government doesn't want the American people to know!!

        1. KFlippin profile image60
          KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          But, seriously, it all makes me very sad and very afraid for this country....I wish it was really a tabloid hoax, I wish some lefty wingding could truly show us all through sound theory or analysis this executive order revision is actually innocuous and just no big deal.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Did you guys get this upset when Dumbya and Reagan did the same?  Did you rant and rave about them?

            1. KFlippin profile image60
              KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              ??? You're slipping up.  Obama's Executive Order revision was of one of Reagan's, from I think 1983?.  If it were so very bad in 1983 in its original concept, the wingdings would have said so loudly and clearly long since, as would conservatives, who are generally very clear minded.

              So far as I've noticed no wingnuts are ranting and raving here, only wingdings.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Your attempt at using logic is interesting!  Predictable, but still interesting!  LOL!

                1. KFlippin profile image60
                  KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Glad you agree, must mean there is some hope of a coming together of Americans in the interest of America.  Logic and rational thinking were important to our past, and critical to our future.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Hmmm.  So perhaps you can explain why your smilie is waving a Yugoslavian flag then.  What is your logical and rational thinking concerning this???

  3. TMMason profile image74
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    Well...

    I'll say it again...

    We're screwed. And it is all sides doin the screwin.

  4. MikeNV profile image76
    MikeNVposted 6 years ago

    I read that when it happened.  And it's even much bigger than that.  For years the United States has been handing land to the United Nations.  It's also Treason for Obama to sit in any UN Capacity while president.  One can not serve two masters.

    There is an intelligence movement in the United States that is working hard to wake up the ignorant masses.  But dumb people are not capable of understanding what is going on... even when you spoon feed them.

    1. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Have faith my friend. Each comes to the truth at their own pace. It takes time but progress is being made. The Union will survive and we will conquer the forces of evil that threaten our freedom.

  5. habee profile image90
    habeeposted 6 years ago

    Wow, thanks for telling us about this!

  6. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    The forces of evil have already taken over our gvt.
    Happened about 1947 or so, imo.
    That is why we need Interpol. These rotten forces feel themselves above any law of any kind....and we have let them!
    Hell, we even cheer them on!.... To this day!

    We need Interpol and the International Awake Community.

    If Iran is allowed to happen, it's all over.

    1. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I don't understand what you mean if Iran is allowed to happen? The executive order is serving the Iranian interests!

      Why would you advocate granting Interpol immunity from the laws and the constitution of the United States? Do you think the United States should not exist as a separate country?

  7. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    I think the United States has criminal elements in it that heed no law, no constitution, no morality, no values.

    They are powerful and have control everywhere. The forces in our gvt that are fighting them are not powerful enough to deal with them alone. They need outside help.

    I think Iran is the next target of these evil forces.
    I don't believe they have nuclear weapons aiming for America. I just don't.
    So why would we attack them? What would it benefit us?

    And if you maybe were asleep during 2000-2008, you would already have seen that our laws and our constitution mean nothing to the people in charge.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "I think the United States has criminal elements in it that heed no law, no constitution, no morality, no values."

      Yes. It is called the Leant leftist liberal progressive party. And it includes both Republican and Democrat.

      It must be stopped.

      "They are powerful and have control everywhere. The forces in our gvt that are fighting them are not powerful enough to deal with them alone. They need outside help."

      See Above.

      "I think Iran is the next target of these evil forces.
      I don't believe they have nuclear weapons aiming for America. I just don't.
      So why would we attack them? What would it benefit us?"

      Do you know what Iran having a Nuke would do for stability in not only the Middle East, but Europe.?

      No man.

      Much better we make sure they never complete it. Assination if need be of all the top Iranian and Russian Nuclear scientists which are there and on hand. I wouldn't pull out any stops, Israel would have ourt full support.

      But since Obama hates this country. They, Iran, will be allowed to gain the nuke. Anything to deteriorate our power in the world and create another enemy for America. Why is the left cannot go 1 decade without creating and arming a new enemy?

    2. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      If what you say is true, then how can we as Americans rely on outside International forces to protect our interests when we as a people have no influence over them? Do you trust such international forces to do what is right and what is best for us? What would be their motivation to do so? Why do you think these forces can be given more trust than we would give to our own citizens?

  8. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    I disagree with everything you just wrote. All of it.

    As a matter of fact...I see it JUST the opposite!

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I know you do. That didn't even have to be said chrs.

      But that is fine.

      You have a right to your own opinion. Alot of soldiers deid to assure you of that right.

      Please don't waste it.

  9. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    "You have a right to your own opinion. Alot of soldiers deid to assure you of that right."

    Funny so many Bush supporters never thought so, isn't it?
    If I had a nickel for every time I was told to shut up and respect the president. I'd be UBER rich!

    And leeberttea--the forces we need to protect ourselves from are our own! At least they call themselves Americans, but i don't think their loyalty is to America.

    And remember, it is the opposite of Mason.

    I do not think Obama is the enemy.

    It would be great theatre if it wasn't so deadly serious.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So your going to call me unpatriotic.

      What-ever punk

      I have bled for this country.

      Have you?

      I don't care what you whimper about.

      But Progressive socailism is not American. And that is all there is to it. We will not allow a treasonous left to sell us into the economic slavery of big Govt. socailism.

      You can talk all the junk you want chrs.

      The fact is if Oby and his peeps, the progressives, have thier way. There will be no America.

      You know a great American once warned us this was coming. He said over and over the commies and thier supporters were in our govt. But we didn't listen, and the progressives on both sides destroyed and killed him.

      He would say, "I told you so."

    2. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting. I wonder, how do we protect ourselves from ourselves? Who decides who is the enemy? Is it decided like in Thailand by a bullet from a sniper's rifle?
      I don't know that Obama is the enemy, but it would be helpful to know what his intentions are. His lack of access by the press, his control over the message and overall lack of transparency solicits an unease in the electorate. This is not the change he promised.

  10. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Punk? I'm a gramma!!! hahaha

    Hey you...punk gramma.

    And nobody called you unpatriotic.....you aren't "one of them" are you? Maybe a cheerleader for them, but not one of them.

    When push comes to shove, they will feel the wrath of all America!!

    That's why Benjamin Fulford says they are looking to find a country to hide in...

    Like you know Rumsfeld and Rice and Bush all had people in other countries try to arrest them?

    No where to hide yo--it's punk gramma on the tip.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "And leeberttea--the forces we need to protect ourselves from are our own! At least they call themselves Americans, but i don't think their loyalty is to America.

      And remember, it is the opposite of Mason."

      Right there you state it.

      I don't care who you are. I have served my country. I don't take kindly to being called unpatriotic. So what-ever grandma.

  11. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Ok, I didn't state it well.
    My idea of the enemy is the opposite of yours.
    You say Iran, I say Israel.

    And YOU don't take kindly to being called unpatriotic???
    Try 9 years of it!

    Then get back to me.....or is it OK for your side to use that phrase...which I never did about you, I was talking about the neo-kooks in power, who serve not America.

    "And nobody called you unpatriotic.....you aren't "one of them" are you?"

    Get it?

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I have suffered the same insults from the left. Believe me alot a people on both sides can get vitriolic in the heat of it. I wouldn't call you unpatriotic, just mis-guided.

    2. KFlippin profile image60
      KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Very well said.

      1. lovemychris profile image80
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        “WE CAN KILL ANYONE, ANYWHERE FOR ANY REASON…ARE YOU LISTENING PRESIDENT OBAMA”

        By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

        "When Israel sent 27 Mossad agents to a 5 star hotel in Dubai to murder Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a minor Hamas figure, it had nothing to do with Hamas or Dubai.  It was a warning to President Obama and anyone else that nobody is safe and no reason is small enough to not justify a killing if key interests are involved, money, drugs, power and, least of all, the security of Israel. 

        The world’s most active assassination squads now represent a threat to every national leader, politician, diplomat and even journalist that speaks up.  The undercurrent of threats has circled the earth since the Dubai assassination, not a bungled Mossad operation at all, as Israel claims, but a slap in the face for Britain, Germany, Australia and the other countries whose passports were forged and a threat to President Obama that he faces something much more serious than a deluge of laundered Israeli cash opposing his next election."


        This is the neo-kook enemy I was talking about.
        And they have plenty of allies right here. Imagine that.

        They want Iran next?
        Hmmm, don't think Russia will like that much.Nor China. But we are the key aren't we?
        We, with our media full of neo-kooks. Almost as if they planned it.......hahaha
        1990; the advent of the era of Russssshhhhhh and the rest of the rabid right brigade. Also the announcement of the New World Order by Bush senior. Guess what the date was he announced that? Sept. 11, 1990.
        -- President Bush [Senior] gave a speech to a joint session of the U.S. Congress entitled, "Toward A New World Order".
        Just a coincidence. Right, tell yourself that.

        Well, good nite all....world keeps turning.

        1. KFlippin profile image60
          KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Wow, there is a massive plot right wing plot in good working order, right wings are in power and controlling this country, who would have thunk it!?

          1. lovemychris profile image80
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It's called The Project for a New American Century.

            Although I think they have changed the name now, due to bad publicity. But the plans are still the same.

            You can still google PNAC...it's incredible how many of their desires have come to pass.
            And my personal opinion is that Obama is there to stop them.
            But you know, they had a big head-start, and eight years of con trolling our gvt....it takes time and  they won't go down easy.

            But go down they will....Cosmic Justice.

  12. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Oh gee....how superior of you.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No problem.

      I always like to cheer the lil guy.

      Besides I am sure you think I am mis-guided, to say the least.

  13. IzzyM profile image86
    IzzyMposted 6 years ago

    Don't play into their hands. The politics of the left or the right are inconsequential once you realise who wields the real power in this world. All American presidents from the last 50 years or so, as well as all heads of state in Europe, bow before the real power masters. The United Nations also have the same group of taskmasters, and their aim is world domination. NOT for any individual state, but for individual members who are super rich now and will continue to be so. Think of the Rockefellers of this world...

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Are we discussin the builderburg group? Or whatever you want to call them.

  14. Doug Hughes profile image61
    Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago

    For those of you who are getting orgasms by the vision of the Oboam conspiracy to.. whatever it is this week... don't bother reading an impartital ABC report on the actual history and effect of Executive Order 12425.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch … ol-do.html

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes.

      Trust ABC.

      Of course... ahhh why didn't I think of that.

      Damn it, I never think of anything cool.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image61
        Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        *sigh*

        The 'source' for the opinions and the hysteria is the Washington Examiner. According to Wilipedia...

        "The Washington Examiner is a free daily newspaper with published in Springfield, Virginia, and distributed around Washington, D.C. and its suburbs. All of its opinion pieces express a conservative viewpoint. It is owned by Denver businessman Philip Anschutz, one of the world's richest men.[2]"

        So you have a free tabloid that's the source of this crap - and you consider that  more reliable than the FACTS in the ABC story.  I go back to my original claim - some of you people must get a special thrill from unfounded wild hysteria. Take a cold shower- then look at the facts.

        1. TMMason profile image74
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Yes.

          I know.

          I will trust ABC.

          Stop stealing my ideas.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You're wasting your time using facts, Doug!  Look at those who fell for the "spin".  Same old, same old!

          1. TMMason profile image74
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yes.

            I will trust the left wing media to report fairly and balanced... that sounds awfully familiar?... and contradictory.

            But hey...

            ABC

            You got it.

          2. Doug Hughes profile image61
            Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Randy -  Some people, including independents who don't agree with my opinions, are still objective enough to check the facts and make up their own minds.  The wingnut hysteria isn't hard to see - but the truth isn't obvious without a link to background info, and objective analysis.

        3. KFlippin profile image60
          KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          So a 'free' tabloid is disrepected by liberals, very odd, but an old school 'paid' network is the more reliable source of interpretation.....ouch, another one of those difficult theories of yours.

          Have you read the Executive Order?  If so, please let us know your interpretation, and give us all your spin without benefit of ABC.

          1. TMMason profile image74
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thats not my theory...

            Doug seems to think I should trust ABC news for the truth of all things.

            The, "Facts", as he and his friends keep putting it.

            It is quite funny, eh.

            ABC Hahahahaha

            1. KFlippin profile image60
              KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              ABC

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Fox News->

                1. TMMason profile image74
                  TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  That is a riot....

                  1. KFlippin profile image60
                    KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    A Democrat on the campaign trail with the family dog......he gets two votes....one for both sets of feet...

  15. Doug Hughes profile image61
    Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago

    The USA enjoys certain privileges and protections an any country where we have an embassy or consulate. The site of a US Embassy or Consulate is treated as if it was on US soil. Russia has no juridiction over the US Embassy in Saint Petersburg. And we have no authority over the Russian Embassy in Washington DC. We can (and do) expell diplomats- so do they. Only through this reciprocal arrangement can countries do business. INTERPOL is not a country - they are a police force, one we work with. They need and expect that their office and property will not be subject to search and seizure. It's more than possible that INTERPOL would investigage persons or businesses with power (and gov't connections)criminals who would want to know the status of an investigation  or possibly destroy evidence.

    The Executive Order did not grant INTERPOL special investigative authority over citizens of the US. It made the offices of INTERPOL inviolate - which is as it should be.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Have you seen the way Us embassies have been treated in the past 20 years. That is fine and dandy in theory.... but the fact is. We run for the hiiis and abandon them when the mobs show up.

      I would love to see the Marines shoot the shits dead when they attack our embassy.... but it won't happen.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh yeah, you've got some good answers for keeping world peace and solving our problems as evidenced by your posts.  realistic too!  LOL!



          "Let some english cop show up at my door. Britain can pay to transport his dead body back to England and cover the cost of my ammo."

        "Much better we make sure they never complete it. Assination if need be of all the top Iranian and Russian Nuclear scientists which are there and on hand. I wouldn't pull out any stops, Israel would have ourt full support."

        "I would love to see the Marines shoot the shits dead when they attack our embassy.... but it won't happen."

        1. TMMason profile image74
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I am tired of wussy ass liberal diplomacy. It was the leant leftist hero, Moa. Who said..."power comes from the barrel of a gun."

          So lets impose some leftist phylosophy in our inter-actions with the world. Spice it up with some of that power.

          This is the real world man. Not everyone is our friend.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "So lets impose some leftist phylosophy in our inter-actions with the world. Spice it up with some of that power."

            You should be happy about the Iraq war then!  But "shock and awe" wasn't a leftist strategy was it?  We sure gained lots of respect with that one!  Here, have some "freedom fries" on me!  LOL!

    2. outdoorsguy profile image61
      outdoorsguyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      involiate.. a foriegn police force,not bound by the US constitution or US law. granted Imunity to operate in the country and you cant see the possibilty of Abuse and the violation of rights that could occur leaving US Citizens with no legal recourse.

  16. Wayne Orvisburg profile image78
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 6 years ago

    Can someone please tell me, that while everything keeps getting worse, the same boneheads keep getting elected to Congress every term?  It's my opinion that Congress has a great deal of power to serve our interests and can cause change. However, there are so many that keep getting re-elected. Some have been in office for decades! What the heck <over>?

    1. Doug Hughes profile image61
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Blame it on the voters.

      What I can't fathom is why voters who DESPISE gridlock in Washington are likely to elect  Republicans in the mid-term - when the GOP has adopted a scorched-earth, lay-down-on-tracks, pure spiteful, strategy of obstructionism. The gridlock from 2010 to 2012 will make every bit of constructive legislation DOA. I predict NOTHING will come out of the legislative branch more significant than renaming post offices.Hopefully, by 2012, the teabaggers will be a bad memory and moderates will be elected in sufficient numbers that progress will be made.

      1. KFlippin profile image60
        KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe GRIDLOCK is preferable at this moment in US history.

        1. Doug Hughes profile image61
          Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          For wingnuts, dingbats and teabaggers.

          IF allowed to produce and enact compromise legislation on major issues this could be a fine Congress. The GOP is in lockstep to PREVENT effective legislation because they don't want democrats to campaign on the list of accomplishments. The result is that the country suffers so the GOP can win elections. I believe in the 2-party system. I believe in compromise legislation. I despise this GOP obstructionism.

          1. Sab Oh profile image59
            Sab Ohposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Can't get past the silly, childish names, huh?

          2. leeberttea profile image61
            leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Is refusing to vote for a law that prevents certain types of speech obstructionist? Should anyone compromise on issues of freedom?

            http://townhall.com/columnists/TerryJef … our_speech

            Is there also room for compromise on the separation of church and state? I wonder where the outrage is on this matter? A partnership between churches and the government for churches that  promote the government message a reward of funds? What would be the compromise for this?

            http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/ … erships-pr

            What you refer to as obstructionist, some see as an attack on the basic principles that established the federal bureaucracy, and how does one compromise on their principles? Would you really vote for such a character?

          3. TMMason profile image74
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            We don't comprimise with the Constitution Doug. It is the Law of the Land. Anything in conflict with it's text is null and void automattically in the minds of most American's.

  17. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    This sounds wonderful to me....sounds like we're getting BACK to principles that have been shredded to the dump heap by the Republicans since Reagan.

    Their idea of church and state is "you vote for a democrat, we kick you out of the congregation"  "Kill Roe v Wade. Womens' rights and freedoms don't mean anything"

    It finally feels like we are becoming HUMAN again.
    After years of horror and demonic behavior.

    kill kill kill money money money

    You WILL NOT get back in. We have HAD it.

    1. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You should read the constitution Chrs... and then point out where it says seperation of church and state.

      It isn't in there. Niether is the right to abortion. Nor does it say If you illegally come here and have a baby. You and that baby are a citizens.

      You should read it sometime...

      Maybe then you would see then all the liberal progressive myths that have been perpetrated, in order to undermine the constitution itself.

      I am still in awe of the... "we don't have enough young Americans to replace the aging.". remark someone spouted.

      If the left hadn't pushed to legalize the murder of babies... there would be plenty of young Americans alive and well to refill the ranks.

      HUH! That statement from the leant leftists who also propound the greatness of population control. What a bunch of contradictory idiocy.

      It takes a really brilliant intellect to espouse such inherantly inbred pholosophies, and not confuse himself.

      The left... they are all a bunch of geniuses.

      Kill the babies and import the illegals... then when we are over-crowded, start the population control measures....

      1. Sab Oh profile image59
        Sab Ohposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Nor does it say If you illegally come here and have a baby. You and that baby are a citizens."

        Not the mother, but the baby is a citizen if born on US soil. I know you don't like it, but the 14th Amendment has been clearly interpreted this way for a long time. Actually, the principle has been followed since long before the 14th Amendment was even enacted. I don't suppose it was intended to be abused the way that some have, but there it is.

        1. TMMason profile image74
          TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Actually Sab...

          Unless one of those parents is subject to American "Jurisdiction", that baby does not. And when you have two illegal imigrants involved, then niether is subject to American Jurisdiction.

          I klnow what the courts have said, and what the Left has said.

          But it isn't in there.

          The understanding of it comes from Madison and others and thier words on Birth and inherant allegience to the place of birth. I do not buy that there is an inherant allegience to your place of birth. I know alot of people that were born here and do not love this place because of it.

          It is flawed logic.

          1. Sab Oh profile image59
            Sab Ohposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I understand where you're coming from but your interpretation of the Constitution in this case is not going to win out. You can't really say it's not in the Constitution, just that you disagree with very long, and near universal understanding of the 14th Amendment and the principle upon which it rests.

            1. TMMason profile image74
              TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Well I don't see it.

              Not unless we play gymnastics with the word jusrisdiction.

              Like I said I know where it comes from and it is one of the only things I dis-agree with Madison on.

              I think Place of birth may create a feeling of pownership of a opart of your country, but not allegiance. I believe that is more instilled by parents and communitty.

              But... I hear ya.... it is "in there" to most people.

              Just not me.

              But the others I mentioned damn sure ain't in there, Sab.

              1. Sab Oh profile image59
                Sab Ohposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The "jurisdiction" thing was put there to exclude the children of diplomats and ambassadors, who would technically be living on little pockets of their own nations' sovereignty.

                jus soli is the guiding principle at work.

                As far as we are concerned today, the bigger issue is securing the borders, which would render all this discussion largely moot.

                1. TMMason profile image74
                  TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh I agree.

    2. leeberttea profile image61
      leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      So it is all about power then? The principles you fought for banning God from government, suddenly no longer matter? Now it's okay for the government to give taxpayer money to the church? For the EPA to form a "partnership" with the church? Are democrats really that hypocritical? Do you really think Americans can support such a party?

      1. TMMason profile image74
        TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I did not agree with Nancy Polosi at all. No where in anything I wrote did I agree with her.

        I am simply making a statement about what is, and isn't, in the constitution, Lee.

        I do agree with you that the Govt and church do not belong teaming up in that aspect. That it seems to me, and most, fits the seperation the founders were shooting for.  And any church which does so should lose thier tax exempt status.

        But when it is taken to the point of sueing to ban prayer at a council meetings, or taking God off the money and out of our society completely, then it is absurd.

        And not what the founders sought to do.

        1. leeberttea profile image61
          leebertteaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Suddenly it seems as if the democrats want a return to a Church Of England form of government. I wonder how they would feel if Bush had proposed such an idea?

          1. TMMason profile image74
            TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            They would be having a fit.

  18. Reality Bytes profile image94
    Reality Bytesposted 6 years ago

    With the emergence of Global Government how can a simple thing like borders be taken seriously. Why hold on to an antiquated myth long after it has been proven to be nothing but smoke and mirrors. Sovereignty is a silly idea, long dead and buried. Slowly the complete truth will be revealed, but for now hang on to your inane idea of freedom.

    1. KFlippin profile image60
      KFlippinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely, let's have America set the example for the rest of world, open our borders to all people, not worry about who comes and goes, we will all live in 'pieces' of what is left after we are over run and the wealth created by hard work and creativity and intellect in America will finally be rightfully spread across the Globe in a grand Redistribution of the wealth of the greatest nation on this earth. 

      Ah, but then there is that Global Governance, just who would be in power, with what mighty armies to quash and nuke geographical areas at will until they bend to their will, global control of fuel and food supplies, and perhaps this great governing Oz will also make your children take tests, where uniforms, and study what they are told -- if they think your DNA is fit for reproduction.  I will hang on to my 'inane' ideas of freedom.

 
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