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Mosque at Ground Zero?

  1. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 7 years ago

    What do you think?

    1. myownworld profile image82
      myownworldposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      first reaction: ironic....

      on second thoughts: why a religious building at all? why not make a little park with lots of green trees and plants... and benches where people could just come and relax...

    2. profile image69
      paarsurreyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hi friends

      It is very good. Muhammad allowed Christian to worship their way in his mosque one the pattern of which all the mosques of the world have been built. This was very fair and friendly between the Muslims and the Christians. That spirit should continue.

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. TMMason profile image65
        TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Christians are not allowed to attend prayer and pray with muslims in thier mosques.

        And when do you think mohhamud allowed christians to pray in the mosque with him?

        The spirit they are showing in NY, is the islamic supremisist one. That says we are here, we did this, and piss on you if you don't like it.

      2. pisean282311 profile image52
        pisean282311posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        @paar i disagree with u on this..ground zero must have some memorial and no mosque in it..usa has always allowed other faiths to have their worshiping place..i guess only place which bars others worship place in the world is saudi arabia..rest allow...

        1. Flightkeeper profile image73
          Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It's not just saudi arabia anymore. Extremist muslims have been trying to drive out or forcibly convert non muslims in parts of Pakistan, India, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You mean the same way extremist Christians forcibly converted aboriginal Australians and American Indians? wink

            They are just a couple hundred years behind you - watch out!!!

            lol lol

            1. Flightkeeper profile image73
              Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              And Zoom it went way over your head! How am I not surprised that you to push it on the Christians. lol And you even got the American history part wrong. tsk, tsk such ignorance!

              Boy your bigotry speaks volumes and yet you and the libs cry such crocodile tears when it is made obvious to you. 

              lol

            2. TMMason profile image65
              TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Oh yes we do that everyday.

              You all and your equating of things to justufy them is absurd, and reflects wholly on your lack of...

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                LOL

                Dear me. So - you admit it was done? But because it was a while ago - it doesn't count. You sound more like Adolph with every word you utter.

                No morals - that is your problem. sad

    3. ediggity profile image60
      ediggityposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It seems a little tacky.

    4. djpm106 profile image57
      djpm106posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This is tacky, insulting, aggravating, offensive and disgraceful.

      Sound like your view?

      Look at it the other way, even if it makes you reconsider it even just 1% or pisses you off even more!

      The extremist muslims hate america and will always do so. This jihad is a personal struggle for them, and they are for the most part inconsolable, tragically.

      However, one thing Americans fail to see and do is to distinguish between extremist muslims and the overwhelming majority of bloody lovely people who happen to be muslim. All they want to do is pray to their God, let them. We would all wish that you could do this to your own God in Suadi Arabia for example, but you cannot. Don't stoop to that barbaric level. Revel and smile at the grace, confidence and maturity of America to allow such a thing and be proud!

    5. Lily Rose profile image84
      Lily Roseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Have you seen this video?  It's a very well said opinion of this topic that I completely agree with:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

      1. Elpaso profile image59
        Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        All I could think about while listening to this man; was oozing grey puss pouring out of a large, gangrenous, fly invested sore. But, Tally Ho! And free speech, and all that other good stuff, that gave us the good sense to boot the crawling masses like that...thing, out of our Country as our first great act of decency, fairness, and freedom!

        As a New Yorker, that usally has to face the results of the speech made by that belly crawler, I say: You are not helping...MIND YOUR GD BUSINESS! Stay out of the affairs of my City and my Country!

        Thank you Lily for alerting us to what OUR FRIENDS are doing to bring peace to our City,  out of their sincere concern for us!

  2. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Why should it matter where it is built?

    Living and holding on to the past is detrimental to living in the here and now, and only creates conflict for the future. wink hmm

    1. kirstenblog profile image74
      kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, its not something that bothers or worries me smile
      Not all muslims are terrorists and not all mosques are training centres for hate and terrorism, no more then any other place of worship.

      Would anyone have a problem if it were a church or cathedral being built?
      Maybe a synagog?
      Why not all three?
      Good union of faiths there smile

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If you want to look at it that way, it is cool. However, I would prefer them not to build anything that offers someone a place to worship a god.

        They can do that in the privacy of their own home and do not require to build more useless structures dedicated to the ancient foolishness of a god.

        The land could be better used for almost anything else. Perhaps something more beneficial to the public would be even better, than a church or such.

        Adding more churches or whatever, is absurd.

        1. kirstenblog profile image74
          kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I don't blame you for feeling this way, I personally only enjoy churches and the like because of the amazing architecture (here in london there are some old churches that are stunning to look at). For myself the whole world is a 'church' and these buildings are just that, buildings. Not unlike a nice cage for 'god'. Then again my concept of god is way to weird to relate to the concepts found in the religions I have been exposed to. Buddhism is the closest but not quite smile

          My feelings, while mine and kinda fun are not really important. The feeling of society in general is more important as that general feeling can impact just about everyone. I cannot see american society abandoning churches and such for a deeper pursuit of spirituality. If we accept and embrace one building of worship then the only way I see for minimising the chances of the impact on everyone being less negative is to accept and embrace all the different types of buildings people choose to worship in. smile

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes Kirsten, the old churches are nice to look at, but in the end, it boils down to meaningless drivel. As for you not blaming me for feeling the way I do? I'm not sure I get your meaning.

            My understanding is that the time is coming to move past pettiness, foolishness and bring about change in the person's individual responsibility to oneself.
            You're adorable. However, it isn't only about America's society abandoning churches, it is about the individual person's ability to deal with reality. The reality is that a god is not required to live life. Plain and simple. Not to mention, if half the people of religious faith, actually understood their religion, then they would no longer be a member of their religion. wink

            1. kirstenblog profile image74
              kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I would share your feeling about removing the perceived necessity of a building or church being a good idea. I mean, heck all that money spent on fancy buildings and windows, statues and such seem almost an insult to those in poverty. I am realistic tho and know that for the 'faithful' this proposition would be beyond blasphemy and as such would be willing to take up arms if need be to protect their churches and synagogs and mosques. I don't blame is just my way of saying that in a perfect world your suggestion would be a great step forward for society as a whole, and a huge step toward real peace. I sadly cannot agree in proposing as I know people would respond in violence and as such I could not support something that would trigger such anger in those who feel they need their particular brand of religion.


              Sadly I just am unable to agree with you on this one. I wish we were close to moving past all the separatism and transferral of personal responsibility to some supposed authority. The truth is that I see the very concept of personal responsibility as being made weaker and weaker all the time. To be frank I see us moving toward an Orwellian 1984 style with no concept of individual responsibility and moving away from any real advancement of society.

              Awww, you must remember my baby racoon avatar! It was soo adorable lol

              Reality... Hmmm.. Whats that again? lol
              Seriously, on the surface most people would say that lying is usually bad and should never be automatic or mandatory even. Yet my experience of reality is that it is believed every one does it and I have had my bosses ask me to my face why I didn't lie about an issue I had had at work. Like that was the first thing that came out of their mouths. I got in trouble for being honest. Is that reality? That lying is sometimes mandatory in order to avoid trouble? That lying is acceptable and even encouraged? Man if so I want nothing to do with reality!

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You see, you have based your entire argument now on the misunderstanding of reality and using the word as it is not meant to be used.

                This is a hub I am working on presently. People, think they understand the word itself, which is obvious by their words and actions that they do not.

                Your view is not the reality. Reality is a word humanity uses to describe "life's existence" and it's "surroundings".

                Yes, I agree with you that many people find lying okay to do, whenever it suits them. This is one of the manipulation tactics of those in power, either government or religion.

                It always remains with a person to be of integrity, which brings about honesty, which brings about love. The fact that you point out many dishonest actions of others, points to my point to begin with.

                Social issues would be a thing of the past, if people properly understood even the basic fundamentals of living life. There is no justified reasoning for lying, yet government does it and claims it is in the best interest of the people. Hence, politics were born and political correct speech soon after.

                The weakness within society is based on the weakness(lack) in knowledge of the people. They choose ignorant or turn a blind eye to or refuse to be active to prevent, and then call it their reality of life. It's absurd.

                1. kirstenblog profile image74
                  kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Ever tried to teach someone who simply does NOT want to learn anything new?
                  I know of a few walls that would be more likely to listen then many of the people I see daily hmm
                  At least those walls don't argue for remaining ignorant big_smile

                2. Sab Oh profile image58
                  Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "This is a hub I am working on presently. People, think they understand the word itself, which is obvious by their words and actions that they do not."

                  "Social issues would be a thing of the past, if people properly understood even the basic fundamentals of living life."

                  " The weakness within society is based on the weakness(lack) in knowledge of the people. "

                  Uh.....huh....but, um, you know and understand all this where others do not...? I guess if all the ignorant masses were to just follow an enlightened guru like yourself then the world would be a much better place, right?

                  ...........................................................

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Quit playing games. It's already agreed by others that YOU are not all there. So, with that said. You're just pouncing, not looking to learn anything, because your individual actions already proved that you think you already know everything, even if your words didn't directly say it. You assume people cannot figure out their own life and YOU WOULD BE WRONG! It's unfortunately sad for you. wink

            2. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "The reality is that a god is not required to live life. Plain and simple."

              It is simply plain that is your opinion and you are entitled to it just like everyone else.


              " Not to mention, if half the people of religious faith, actually understood their religion, then they would no longer be a member of their religion."

              You know this for certain, eh?

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Yes, I know it for certain. If you don't like it, too bad.

                1. Sab Oh profile image58
                  Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "Yes, I know it for certain"


                  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

                  1. Cagsil profile image60
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Look at who is talking off topic? lol lol

        2. saddlerider1 profile image65
          saddlerider1posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with you totally on this one Cags:0)

          1. Cagsil profile image60
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Thank you Saddlerider. I would rather they build a mission, or a multiple shelters or establish even just a huge building to let homeless(even completely empty would work) cover from weather.

            I am in support of supporting those who are unable to support themselves, but I would rather efficiently use the land and resources available, such as rehabilitation of the homeless, so they can progress themselves back into society's fold.

            More productive citizens, the better. wink

            1. profile image0
              sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Aww, that is a good idea too! big_smile

              1. Cagsil profile image60
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The main problem people are not willing to face is the growing population of the homeless. Here is a direct stat from government.

                In 2006 the homeless level was 12.3% of the total population.
                In 2007 the homeless level was 12.5% of the total population.

                When you look at the numbers, it doesn't seem like much. But, when you actually do the math...on average every year homeless increases by .2% which is about 700000 new people who have become homeless.

                That is in ONE year's time. The workforce lost 700,000 people from it. The Economy lost 700,000 people from spending money.

                And, people wonder what's wrong with things? lol lol

                Btw- Thank you. smile

            2. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "Thank you Saddlerider. I would rather they build a mission, or a multiple shelters or establish even just a huge building to let homeless(even completely empty would work) cover from weather.

              I am in support of supporting those who are unable to support themselves, but I would rather efficiently use the land and resources available, such as rehabilitation of the homeless, so they can progress themselves back into society's fold.

              More productive citizens, the better. "


              Ok, this seems to be off the topic anyway but a great many people get their lives back on track and become more productive citizens through their faith, whatever it may be. That you personally don't care for religion doesn't change that. But, again, off topic I think.

        3. Sab Oh profile image58
          Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "If you want to look at it that way, it is cool. However, I would prefer them not to build anything that offers someone a place to worship a god.

          They can do that in the privacy of their own home and do not require to build more useless structures dedicated to the ancient foolishness of a god.

          The land could be better used for almost anything else. Perhaps something more beneficial to the public would be even better, than a church or such.

          Adding more churches or whatever, is absurd."


          I don't see how your generalized opposition to any religion (an incredibly minority view, globally speaking) is relevant to this topic.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Oh I think most people will agree that religious buildings are pretty worthless in and of themselves. As to the relevance - I genuinely, respectfully suggest that you educate yourself - at least a little - if you do not know what a Mosque is.

            Sorry TK Sensei - perhaps then you could offer some thing to these conversations instead of merely gainsaying everyone else.
            You must hate a lot of people.

            1. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "Oh I think most people will agree that religious buildings are pretty worthless in and of themselves."

              NO, most people will not agree with that.

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Ah - you speak for most people do you TK Sensei? Odd. lol

            2. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "You must hate a lot of people"

              NO, I do not. That's a terrible thing to say, and you should try to stick to the topic of the thread. You can do that, can't you?

              1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                But - your hatred is the topic of the thread now. Gosh you hate a lot. I feel sorry for you. sad

        4. kmackey32 profile image80
          kmackey32posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Good call....

      2. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Why not all three?  That might be a possible resolution.

        1. Len Cannon profile image88
          Len Cannonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know if there are any Jewish religious buildings in the area, but I can assure you there are churches near Ground Zero.

    2. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I suppose.  But on the other side, for all those people's families who died there.  What do you think they feel?  Let's let go of the memories of our loved ones and replace it with a symbol of the faith that killed them? 

      -playing devils advocate here, both sides- 

      Do you think that doing it would also create conflict in the future?  Think about how passionately the folks directly involved must feel.

      1. Maddie Ruud profile image78
        Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago in reply to this



        The faith didn't kill them.  Terrorists did.

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Certainly I know this.  However, there is a stigma attached to it.  I really like Kristen's idea.

          1. kirstenblog profile image74
            kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I think this is the first time we have agreed on a religious type solution, well done us big_smile
            Seriously tho it does seem the most likely solution to be accepted and if you think about it it is kinda beautiful and poetic. The tragedy of 9/11 hurt more people then just americans or Christians, it caused unimaginable sorrow for people of all walks of life. To have the area that will always be remembered for this painful event be used for unity and creating peace is a lovely way to honour those who lost their lives and the families that had to soldier on in the face of such grief. Who knows someone may well take up our idea and make this the official stance smile

            1. Len Cannon profile image88
              Len Cannonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You really want to honor the people who died on 9/11? There are a few ways.

              1. Kick out all of the scumbuckets selling 9/11 souvenirs around Ground Zero. People died when that building went down. People are STILL dying slow deaths because of what happened. Take your T-shirts and statues and snow globes and go somewhere else.

              2. Stop giving the scumbucket t-shirt salesman reasons to be there.  9/11 is not a tourist location. There's nothing to see.  There's a giant pit with construction workers not doing much of anything. Go to Central Park, instead.  Go to the Bronx Zoo.  Go see a show.  There's nothing there and it is awkward and weird to see a nice family from Kansas gawking at the site of a massacre.

              3. Remember the people who died. Not the IDEA of the people who died, but the actual people.  If you want to honor the lost from 9/11, go find a tribute page and read about the life of someone who was lost.  I bet it would have meant more to them to have someone care about THEM than to rage against a mosque down the street.

              1. kirstenblog profile image74
                kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                T-shirt vendors and souvenirs?  *shakes head* well thats capitalism for ya hmm
                To be honest I did not know that this late in the day folks are milking this tragedy. I can understand  people wanting to see the site after it first happened, to feel the reality of it (it felt totally unreal to me for some time) but I will pass on the 'I visited ground zero' t-shirts tongue

        2. Sab Oh profile image58
          Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "The faith didn't kill them.  Terrorists did."


          That's true, and a very important point, but the fact that they were all of the same faith and used it to justify their evil acts is what complicates the issue at hand.

          1. TMMason profile image65
            TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That is the way Islam is Sab, they defeat then build a mosque upon the rubble of the defeated to show thier supremacy.

            http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37132

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
              Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              No #2, that's the way sick, twisted individuals (McVeigh, Koresh, Bin Laden, McCarthy) operate.

              They claim to have a mandate from their god and are willing to kill anyone who disagrees...

              The wingnuts are headed in this direction.

              P.S. Congrats on moving up in the cyber world.  Maybe someday it will translate into a real-life promotion to mediocrity. smile

              1. Sab Oh profile image58
                Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Are you literally incapable of posting without insulting people?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Please stop making personal attacks TK Sensei.

                  Thank you.

                2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
                  Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  People?

            2. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not prepared to condemn an entire faith.

        3. WoosterSpring profile image56
          WoosterSpringposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Maddie-I love your response...very sharp on your behalf.

      2. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I'm sure they have a loss in their life, however, it is 2010 and people must move on. Otherwise, what would be sense in living. They might as well, take their own life and be done with it.
        That's the problem, too many people being lead by their emotions and that alone always creates conflict. wink

        1. Sab Oh profile image58
          Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "I'm sure they have a loss in their life, however, it is 2010 and people must move on. Otherwise, what would be sense in living. They might as well, take their own life and be done with it."


          Somehow I don't think you'd find it so easy (or safe) to say that to the faces of most families who lost loved ones on 9/11 and I'd hope if theory became reality you'd have the sense and class not to.

          1. Elpaso profile image59
            Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            People never get over the murder of their loved ones. But, the rest of the world can not stop spinning for them. And grief can not be an excuse to discriminate against people. We, the people of New York has to let the rest of the World know we are not that kind of people. We can't leave a decision like this up to people that are not thinking clearly about what's good for them, for us, and for this City.

            1. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'm sure they'd appreciate hearing you decide they can't think clearly as well...

              1. Elpaso profile image59
                Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                And....What's suppose to happen now? I stand by what I said. When grief turns to hate, somebody needs to speak up and say something. I don't choose to be a cheap panderer to anybody. The way people look at my city and it's people are at stake here.

                1. Sab Oh profile image58
                  Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "And....What's suppose to happen now?"

                  Maybe take everyone's interests and concerns into account without belittling victims to justify a political position?

  3. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 7 years ago

    As a New Yorker, I am ashamed that anyone would even raise up their voices against it.  First, the location is not "at" ground zero but two long blocks away.  Second, the mosque's congregation already exists in the neighborhood, but they have grown too large to use their previous building and need to move to a larger area.  Third, the assumption that any Muslim in the Tribeca/Lower Manhattan area is somehow an affront to 9/11 victims is very worrisome.

    The fact is, a mosque in New York City is no more offensive than a Christian Church in Israel or an American business in Japan.  If we want to be a country that's all about freedom of religion, freedom to make our own decisions, and the (semi)noble capitalistic goal of exporting both our products and our ideas around the world, we need to suck it up and be less reactionary.

    1. Doug Hughes profile image61
      Doug Hughesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thanx, Lee for that information. I was reading this morning that the building is owned by an Islamic church now - it's not part of 'ground zero' and I find it hard to understand why the same group that is so big on 'property rights' thinks that a religious organization has no rights regarding their property - namely converting use of a building they bought for a Mosque.

    2. TMMason profile image65
      TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How about a christian church in Saudi Arabia?

      Islam 101... conquer and build a monument to your god, to honor his assistance in that great victory.

      I don't care how any of you all see it... that is how Islam sees it.

      And Ron you know the difference between McCarthy and all the rest?

      McCarthy was right.

      So as I said all.

      You leant leftists can keep your heroes such as Hitler, Moa, Stalin, Marx, Lenin, and all the rest of the mass murderers the left can claim as thier own.

      I will stick with Joe McCarthy,... at least he was right.

      http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/vernon/071105

      http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23388

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Oh he was right...

        Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the right of reality.  I understand why you worship him.

        1. TMMason profile image65
          TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          As I said ron... once you know the truth.

          If your gonna make your claims theses days about McCarthy you are on the wrong side of the historical record in the matter.

          The left cannot supress the truth anymore. There are just too many records from too many indipendent sources and committees.

          The left has been shown for the liars they are, and even now we see the results of what McCarthy warned us about.

          Believe me... you can ignore it and deny it at your own peril. Because alot of Americans are waking up to what has been going on and who has been doing it.

          They see this country and where it is going and they do not like it.

          1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            A handful of middle-aged, unemployed white guys hardly constitutes "a lot of Americans".

  4. Ron Montgomery profile image60
    Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago

    It's a fantastic idea, (which is why it won't happen).  It would be a much needed reinforcement of the fact that the entirety of the Muslim community is not responsible for 9/11 anymore than the entirety of the Christian Community is responsible for Waco or Oklahoma city where, I presume, Christians are allowed to build churches.

  5. I am DB Cooper profile image69
    I am DB Cooperposted 7 years ago

    It's important to remember that the 9/11 terrorists were Islamic extremists from the other side of the world and in no way connected to the Muslim families living in lower Manhattan. Muslims (other than the terrorists) were killed in those attacks as well.

    I would absolutely prefer that no religious structures be built in lower Manhattan, and it has nothing to do with religious conflicts. That space is among the most valuable in the world, and by turning commercial property into a religious building they are lowering property tax revenues, unless the new religious building increases the property values of the commercial and residential buildings around it.

    1. Jerami profile image73
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That is actually a good legalistic arguement.

          If I had the money to buy that pieve of land; that would be the hurtle that I or anyone else would have to JUMP with whatever Idea I had that I was going to do with my property.

        Tax revenue...  Hadn't thought about it from that angle

  6. Cagsil profile image60
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Oh, btw- the homeless problem is presently at 13.2%

    Those who are living within poverty standards is at 13.5%.

    Just added thoughts. wink

    1. psycheskinner profile image80
      psycheskinnerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      13.2 percent of what?

      1. Cagsil profile image60
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Did you or did you not read the post before the where you got the 13.2%? Either way it doesn't matter. hmm

        What? The Total Population of America. wink

  7. DzyMsLizzy profile image92
    DzyMsLizzyposted 7 years ago

    Let's just say...."Don't get me started...."

  8. Joni Douglas profile image85
    Joni Douglasposted 7 years ago

    I don't think it is such a great idea.
    They say they want to honor the fallen, but then ignore the wishes of the families of those fallen. The families see this as an insult, right or wrong it is how they feel.   
    If you look throughout history, that is something that conquerors do, build over a place that is held sacred. While I'm not saying that this is their intent, I do think that this spot is sacred and special to many Americans. 
    If they really care, build it somewhere else. If they want a grand mosque, ok, but build a few blocks away.  We, Americans are always being asked to be sensitive to others, is it wrong just this once to ask for a little sensitivity in return.
    They may have the right to build it there but do they have the compassion not to?

    1. Elpaso profile image59
      Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      A Mosque, like a Church is built for people to come and worship. The Muslim people that live near ground zero, and have loved one who died in the World Trade Bombing, deserve their place of worship RIGHT THERE in their community. Everyone deserve compassion. No one is intitled to chase people out of their community or place of worship because of religious hate!

      1. Joni Douglas profile image85
        Joni Douglasposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        There already are many mosques in that neighborhood.  No one is chasing them away, just asking for them to not put a mosque on the ground where their loved ones died.

        1. Elpaso profile image59
          Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          In other words, they(Muslims) should go somewhere else? Compassionately move away to quell the hatred of some of the 9/11 families. Do you understand what you are asking of the Muslim people living here, and the rest of us New Yorkers? No! They won't move somewhere else, and we New Yorker won't let the world think we're those kind of people that would allow such a hateful thing like that to happen in our City.

          1. Joni Douglas profile image85
            Joni Douglasposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            No, now listen carefully,  It isn't that they can't build a mosque in New York City.  They have dozens of them already in the city.  It is at that spot, at ground zero that people are opposed to.  I have seen the results of the polling.  Not one demographic of the city wants a mosque anywhere near ground zero.  No one is asking them to move. 
            A hateful thing happen in New York City?  You have to be kidding me. 
            Compassion for people feelings may be a new concept to you and to them but it shows a considerable lack of empathy, sympathy and class for them to build a mosque there.  Even to suggest putting a mosque there shows a lack of consideration on their part.
            Maybe we could offer an exchange.  Ground zero for the Temple Mount.

            1. Uninvited Writer profile image82
              Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              But...as was stated earlier, it is not on ground zero but 2 blocks away.

              1. Joni Douglas profile image85
                Joni Douglasposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                It may be 2 blocks away but it is listed as one of the buildings that was damaged on 9/11.  It means something to the families, it means something to the people of NY and to the country.  I wouldn't dream of saying that they couldn't build their mosque in NY but would respectfully ask them not to at this place. It will not only cause resentment, but in a way, become a target. To be honorable, they should find another spot.

                1. Elpaso profile image59
                  Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  SMILE SMILE
                  You just threatened New York Citizens.
                  SMILE SMILE
                  I respectfully request you not do it again.
                  SMILE SMILE
                  Muslims should not be single out by you, and told where to worship.
                  SMILE SMILE
                  I forgot to ask, are you an American? We already know such talk is not acceptable in this country no matter how cleverly you think you mask it.
                  SMILE SMILE
                  You have a nice day now!

                  1. Joni Douglas profile image85
                    Joni Douglasposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh please, 
                    Not sure whether to thank you for calling me clever or just laugh at you for your ridiculous statement that I have threatened NYC, by acknowledging that some may take real offense at a mosque. 
                    This is how you debate your opinion?
                    I am not telling them where to worship, only stating in my opinion, that they not build at this  site.  Many of the Muslims in this country also feel that this spot is just too provocative and say it should be elsewhere, stating, the mosque is intended to be a place of worship and healing not a contentious place.

                  2. Sab Oh profile image58
                    Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    "I forgot to ask, are you an American? We already know such talk is not acceptable in this country no matter how cleverly you think you mask it."

                    We have freedom of speech "in this country."

  9. akirchner profile image96
    akirchnerposted 7 years ago

    I don't believe in hate either and hating anyone will not bring back the dead.  They will never be forgotten.  All that said though, I do think under the circumstances of the tragedy of 911 that the mosque should be/could be built elsewhere.  It would seem that building it on ground zero would incite further hatred rather than providing a healing balm on a part of history that will live on forever as it is.

  10. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    Many innocent Muslims died in the World Trade Centre.

    Obviously no churches of any kind should be built on that ground. What do you recommend?

  11. Elpaso profile image59
    Elpasoposted 7 years ago

    "I have seen the results of the polling.  Not one demographic of the city wants a mosque anywhere near ground zero.  No one is asking them to move."

    Thank Allah!
    This is a Country of laws instead of mob rule. The end game of some 9/11 families is the extermination of all Muslims everywhere. Do you think the people of this City or Country is going to be ruled by people that are victims of a horrible crime and suffering from PTS, whose only concern is hate and revenge?
    Instead of helping to move these people forward, you want to encourage their hate and extend it forever.
    I say no!

    1. Sab Oh profile image58
      Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "The end game of some 9/11 families is the extermination of all Muslims everywhere"

      What an offensive charge. Show proof of ONE 9/11 family that claims such a goal. It is highly irresponsible to make statements like the one above.

      "people that are victims of a horrible crime and suffering from PTS, whose only concern is hate and revenge?"

      It is deeply, deeply offensive and inappropriate to make such accusations and characterizations. That is just flat-out WRONG.

      1. Elpaso profile image59
        Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        How dare you say I'm not allowed to speak the truth out of concern for the 9/11 victims! Do you think they are thinking about what is good for me and the rest of New York? I live here in New York. I saw the hearing concerning the building of the Mosque. I heard with my own ears what 9/11 victims had to say about exterminating innocent Muslims all over the world! Google it or something. But don't assume to insult me again by trying to silence me. I'm a New York Citizen that's not going to give my City up to traumatized victims to run. Why in the world would you think that kind of intimidation would still work after all we sat silent through. We sat silent and let Bush attack a innocent country and murder thousands of it's citizens because we were SCRARED INTO SILENCE.

        The Mosque should be built right where it was planned to be built because it the right thing to do for 9/11 victims, the City and so the world can see we are going to move forward and not be ruled by hate!

        1. Sab Oh profile image58
          Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "How dare you say I'm not allowed to speak the truth out of concern for the 9/11 victims! "

          How dare YOU categorize, belittle, and presume to know the thoughts and feelings of all those affected by this act of evil just because it suits your politics. It is not only illogical, but dismissive and insulting.

          "Do you think they are thinking about what is good for me and the rest of New York?"

          As much as anyone. Perhaps more than most.

          "But don't assume to insult me again by trying to silence me."

          Who tried to silence you? Pointing out the grossly inappropriate nature of your comments isn't intended to silence YOU but to speak on behalf of those you would generalize about in as negative a manner as you have.

          " after all we sat silent through."

          Who sat silent? That sounds nice and dramatic but people were anything but silent about oppposition to policies of the previous administration. How quickly people forget when it fits the script to claim something to the contrary happened.

          "so the world can see we are going to move forward and not be ruled by hate!"

          If people feel that is not the most well-considered location for a mosque that is not a matter of HATE. People can hold differring opinions on the matter without being "ruled by hate" or the like. To claim otherwise really IS attempting to silence opposing views.

  12. Onusonus profile image85
    Onusonusposted 7 years ago

    If the dome of the rock in Jerusalem was demolished and a synagogue was biult up in place of it then I would be ok with a mosque being built near ground zero.

    1. Onusonus profile image85
      Onusonusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Also the same would have to go for the ones in Mecca and Medina, big old Jewish temples smack dabb in the middle of the two cities.

      1. Elpaso profile image59
        Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Are you saying The World Trade Center was actually a Jewish Temple? Why is this Mosque suddenly the reason to attack Mecca? Why do you think in the terms of war instead of making this Mosque the center of some kind of effort to make peace.  That is what the builders of this Mosque is asking for. It's an attemp to heal. Just so you know, I don't believe in any type of Group Religion. So I'm speaking about the justice of denying Citizen of this City the right to worship where they choose to.

        1. Onusonus profile image85
          Onusonusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't say that there had to be three thousand Moslems inside while they were being bulldozed, that's something Islamists would do, not Americans.

          1. Elpaso profile image59
            Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That's not true. Americans Massacred whole towns! But back to the point at hand. A few of you speak with such outrage as if you were here. Did you smell the smoke for weeks? Were you waiting in fear for a plane to hit the building you were in?
            Were you paying close attention to the 9/11 families as they gave the final victory to the terrorist that attacked us. They did not want the Twin Towers rebuilt. They did not think of us, or did they give a dam about how we felt. Now outsider and the unstable are still suppose to make decisions for our City and it's people...I don't think so.

            1. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Your continued attempts at demonizing and belittling the victims of 9/11 is perplexing and disappointing to say the least. It says a lot.

              1. Elpaso profile image59
                Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                These sacred cows will no longer be the only voice of New Yorkers concerning topics of 9/11. I was here and I saw the speakers at the Mosque hearing. The most obvious and hateful display of bigotry and hatred I've seen since the 60s.  Some of the 9/11 families have forfeited their right to speak for us New Yorkers ever again. The world needs to know we don't all think that way. I welcome people of faith to build as many temples, and Churches, and Mosques as they can, as many places as they can.  Maybe people will start to remember the reason for these BUILDINGS, and start to act with some degree of moral decency again.

                1. TMMason profile image65
                  TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  We have seen the way islams remember what thier houses of worship are for.

                  And we are all set with it.

                  And thank god you are not who speaks for New Yorkers.

                  1. Elpaso profile image59
                    Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    And thank god you are not who speaks for New Yorkers.

                    I agree, I'm not a politician. I want the world to know that regular citizens in this City are not all racist, bigots, or amature wanna be politicians out to make this city look bad.

                2. Sab Oh profile image58
                  Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "moral decency" like attacking the victims of a horrific attack? Yeah...

                  1. Elpaso profile image59
                    Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Do you even give a dam about the 9/11 victims' families? You sound like many of the opportunist that court the 9/11 victim for no other reason than to profit from them in some way. Some of the 9/11 victims' families need help moving forward. For some, that is not a good outcome for them financially. As for some of us here; it just seems to be a good SUBJECT MATTER to comment on. I think I gave you a good subject to just comment on...how's the research going Heroe?

            2. Onusonus profile image85
              Onusonusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I wasn't there, I was at the DMZ in Korea pushing back commies. None the less I only see puting up synagogues in the place of mosques in the heartland of Islamic territory as a bridge to peace and understanding between the two groups who have been at eachothers throats for a long time. I can think of no better way of Islam showing tolerance to their neighbors than stepping asside and letting another religion take over. wink

              1. TMMason profile image65
                TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I agree... if islam wants to build bridges they should start by allowing  Christian churchs and a Synagogues to be built in in Saudi Arabia.

                Lets see the tolerance and mission for friendship accomplish that.

                1. Uninvited Writer profile image82
                  Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I doubt New York Muslims have any say in what Saudi Arabia allows.

                  1. TMMason profile image65
                    TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Yeah... thats it.

                    Couldn't be because no other religion is allowed in that country, on pain of death.

                    And lets see, under Shari'a no other religions houses of worship are allowed to be built new, or repaired after falling into dis-repear, in an Islamic country.

                    And not to mention they, the other religions houses of worship, are open game for any rampaging mobs of muslims to burn or other-wise destroy, without any negative consequences falling upon them for thier actions.

                    Muslims can not be punished for destroying another religions house of worship, nor can they be punished for killing non-believers.

                    Oh but all that would be a different conversation, one in regards to rights of non-muslims in muslim countries.

                    build a church in Saudi Arabia and see how long it stays standing... and you keep your head.

                2. Elpaso profile image59
                  Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you kidding? The United States has a military that is honored to do the dirty work for their families back home. This way we don't have to become another Saudi Arabia and act like the people in that Country. And I bet the regular citizen in Saudi Arabia wants to become an American (or at the least, buy a pair of Uptowns)

                  1. Sab Oh profile image58
                    Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    How many Saudis have you asked about that?

                3. Onusonus profile image85
                  Onusonusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Won't happen dude, tolerance for Islam is a one way street.

              2. Flightkeeper profile image73
                Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Good one! big_smile

        2. TMMason profile image65
          TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Wouldn't anyone who was simply interested in making peace and building bridges and in-roads between us, realize that this mosque is not in any way the way to go about it.

          It seem mighty dis-ingenuous to me to claim they want to build this as a way to make peace, knowing it will do exactly the opposite.

          Anyone who was being honest in thier intent to build relations and peace would say okay... this is not the way... we are sorry we will build somewhere else.

          No... they don't want peace... they WANT the discord that they have started.

          1. Elpaso profile image59
            Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            None of your premise is true because the builders talked about their intentions and thier objective is peaceful. So even if you don't believe their intentions are not good, it is their building, their land, and they have the  permission of the Neigborhood Community Board. Case Closed.

            1. Sab Oh profile image58
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Not if the site gets landmarked.

  13. TMMason profile image65
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    If Muslims were so interested and attempting to be a part of the healing. They would understand that this mosque will not allow for healing... just more hurt.

    It is awfully telling that throughout all this they keep claiming the good intentions of it's design and placement.

    Just like the day they plan for opening its doors 9/11... not meant to instigate or spit on us.

    And the name the Cordava house... represents conquest and harkens back to the conquest of spain. Read the history of the great mosque of Cordova, spain.

    It is about pissing on us.

  14. UniqueBeauty profile image61
    UniqueBeautyposted 7 years ago

    I wouldunderstand if they extended an apoliogy, but building on the site where radical believers killed hunndreds of Americans- it is too much. Healing will not come of this, only outrage. The audacity and arrogance that this shows from the Muslim community is terrible. I was just a little girl, but I remember the fear that went through me when I watched what happened on the news. Americans umited in prayer to One Nation Under God and not to One Nation Under Islam. the area should be dedicated to those who lost and gave their lives there that day. Not a mosque. I am sorry to my muslim brothers, but this is insensitive.
    Peace*

    1. Elpaso profile image59
      Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Peace my ass!
      The greatest insult New Yorkers faced and the final victory handed to the terrorist that actually attacked us, was not rebuilding the Twin Towers right away. Bigger and Better! Let's not discuss this tiny Mosque that has nothing to do with the ridiculous mess we are building in place of the Twin Towers!

      1. Sab Oh profile image58
        Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Not to waste time stating the obvious, but you know you don't speak for all New Yorkers, right?

      2. Flightkeeper profile image73
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Why do you obfusticate? It is not a tiny mosque, the building they occupy is at least five stories. And they plan to expand the place to at least 13 stories so that they can build a Muslim Center to include a 500-seat performing arts venue, a swimming pool and a basketball court as well as a large mosque.  Such a place would change the entire area and it would become more muslim focused.  It would attract more muslim businesses.  You would essentially have a huge muslim area right next to the World Trade Center.  Your profile says you live in New York.  You would know this.

        1. Elpaso profile image59
          Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          AND...
          That is the nature and beauty of New York. Very close to the Muslim Center you have Little Italy, China Town, and The Village. Our town is a melting pot of different people the live together and try to make it work.

          1. Flightkeeper profile image73
            Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            and you still gloss over the fact that the World Trade Center is considered hallowed ground and that if the muslims were trying to promote peace in the community with everyone that perhaps the best way to do that is not to have a 13-story muslim center so close to a place that the muslims extremists murdered over 3000 people.

          2. Sab Oh profile image58
            Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            That's one reason why it's so terrible when evil forces try to kill everyone in that melting pot.

  15. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    As I said earlier, no churches of any kind should be built on that ground. As far as I heard, there are a lot of Muslims in that neighborhood outgrew their local mosque and wanted a new one 2 blocks from Ground Zero. Not everyone has evil intentions; or maybe you have insider knowledge that says differently.

    I guess they will just have to build it further away and not have a local mosque.

  16. Flightkeeper profile image73
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    And I noticed that you didn't deny obfusticating the issue.

    1. Elpaso profile image59
      Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I have to get back to you on that.  I don't know what the hell that is.  Does it bite?

      1. Flightkeeper profile image73
        Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It eventually does bite your ass, especially now since you've been caught.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "obfusticate"

          Does it have teeth?  big_smile

        2. Elpaso profile image59
          Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Do I need rabies shots now...

  17. Elpaso profile image59
    Elpasoposted 7 years ago

    I'm starting to see there are people on this site that really have strong views and passions on the subjects they engage in here on the forums.  And there seems to be some people here that only want to debate for the sake of debate itself. There's no real interest in the forums they enter. You even have someone here who started a forum and abandoned it after they were confronted with really hard questions to answer. I really don't know what to think about that...what is that called again...

  18. Elpaso profile image59
    Elpasoposted 7 years ago

    On the subject of this forum; I don't think the American people should wait for what the Saudi Government allows into their country. We, here in New York City need to act first and do the right thing. I feel very proud to have been born and raised in what is called THE GREATEST CITY IN THE WORLD, that is located in what is called the EMPIRE STATE. The good people here want this Mosque built. I want it to be big and beautiful.  I want the Muslim people to be Proud and happy when they see it. I don't know why that's so important to me I'm not religious. But for the people that are, I want to see the biggest brightest places of worship built all around the new Freedom Tower. Maybe people all around the world will think this is a place of peace and stop bombing us. Maybe leave us alone.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image73
      Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You're making stuff up. If the good people of New York wanted that mosque built or were even indifferent you wouldn't have the fuss there. OBFUSTICATION.

    2. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh so now WE'RE responsible for what terrorists do! 
      Why don't you just go ahead and have lunch with those terrorists without any preconditions?!   I'm sure you, with your "peaceful" heart, can talk 'em outta killing people, yeah buddy.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Galatians 6:7 wink

        1. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Gee Mark,
          Are you so bored you're now reduced to posting Scriptures from a Book you don't even believe in?   And which don't even apply to the subject.  Dear me.

          Tell ya what----YOU go right ahead and sow that seed into a terrorist.   If it works, you will have saved us all from the extremists!   Hallelujah!   While you're at at,  maybe you can talk Osama Bin Ladin outta his cave and bring him to justice.  Just coax him by telling him no one's allowed to waterboard him, plus, under our new "tolerant" and "diverse" code, he might get a chance to even become PRESIDENT someday.   Reform the man!  Anything's possible!  After all, we do have Bill Ayres teaching our nation's young people already.  You can do it, Mark.  roll

          1. Mark Knowles profile image61
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Sorry - I forgot you do not understand your book or its application.  lol

    3. TMMason profile image65
      TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The only new yorkers I now that want it built are the flaming liberals and Progressives in NY. The same ones who have turned it into a sanctuary city and mini-welfare state.

      1. Elpaso profile image59
        Elpasoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I guess I asked for that.
        You got it right TM. Where do I sign up to live in YOUR world?  What is your political party? What is your religion? What is your philosophy on life? It's very profitable if nothing else. Do tell me all!

  19. Shil1978 profile image88
    Shil1978posted 7 years ago

    IMHO, no religious building should be built!! The people involved should voluntarily give up the idea and instead build a park or something that doesn't divide!!

    1. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      hmmm
      I'm thinking more on the lines of something that actually shows the strength of the USA.   Like a military fortress.   That way the next time Obama wants to let Air Force One do a fun flyover it won't scare the heck outta New Yorkers again.

      1. Shil1978 profile image88
        Shil1978posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Lol - that was a good one!!

  20. SomewayOuttaHere profile image61
    SomewayOuttaHereposted 7 years ago

    i posted this a few days back on Joni's hub...

    "i don't see building any faith based structure in that spot is inclusive of all people...all kinds of people were impacted. something that just reflects people, a community and not anything to do with faith - something that inspires happiness to celebrate those lives that were lost...something positive for all to share and truly understand the meaning of whatever is built or displayed...something that brings people together...not to forget...but to evolve that particular site into something respectful of everyone....that would be hard to decide actually...it's hard to please everyone."

  21. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

    Sure thing buddy.
    Let's just all go shopping and forget about the people who died at Ground Zero.  That's the ticket! roll

  22. Sullen91 profile image82
    Sullen91posted 7 years ago

    For every person that died in the wtc and ptgn attacks, America has killed about half a dozen hundred civilians in other countries. Why would muslims accept blame for something that was, by a reasonable person's estimate, either known in advance and facilitated by Americans or perpetrated by the Israeli Mossad, in conjunction with complicit Americans. Does anyone remember the Mossad agents dancing on the george washington bridge? They were actually filming the carnage, and they were apparently so jubilant that they were dancing and frolicking.

    1. pisean282311 profile image52
      pisean282311posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      from where do u get such news man..to say muslims all across the globe are saints is ridiculous statement...bin laden is mossad agent?..or is mullah omar from CIA?....i agree that all muslims are not terrorist but to say that none muslims are  involved is not right statement..also muslim or christian or jews or any other faith are in the end , human beings...humans do good as well as bad..humans can be brutal as well as merciful..

      if what u say is correct..why they attacked a country which was under developed and had regime like taliban..and wasted 1 trillion in that...they could have put blame on some other country and attacked...

 
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