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And people wonder what's happening? HAHA!

  1. Cagsil profile image61
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Hey Hubbers,

    What do you think of this foolishness?

    Raw Data from Playboy Magazine.
    (significa, insignifica, stats and facts)

    [b]Two recent surveys on religious belief found that 61% of Americans believe god has pre-determined the course of their life, and 32% of those respondents said they also agree with the statement There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in god's hands

    Talk about completely ignorant.

    What do you think of it? Weigh in... wink big_smile

    1. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      People who don't believe the same things you do are therefore "completely ignorant"? Maybe you have other things to work out than what other people believe...

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It's not a matter of believing anything with regards to me or did you miss that?

        It's a couple of surveys. You either agree with or disagree with. I put my point out there. You don't like, then don't respond.

        1. Sab Oh profile image57
          Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "It's not a matter of believing anything with regards to me"

          That's exactly what it is when you declare anyone who disagrees with your beliefs "completely ignorant."

          1. Cagsil profile image61
            Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It would have been better had you stuck to the thread, instead of attempting to mock me. roll

            Talk about useless.

            1. Sab Oh profile image57
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not trying to mock you. The entire premise of the thread was you pointing out what other people believe and then declaring those people "completely ignorant."

              I merely responded to that.

              1. Cagsil profile image61
                Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The premise of the thread was not what I think.

                It was about what other people think about their life. You bringing up my response to two survey is sad.

                And, you did it without agreeing or disagreeing with those in the survey or not? You did even bother to say what you believe.

                Yet, you claim not to be mocking me? Your actions are that of someone lost. hmm

                1. Sab Oh profile image57
                  Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  "The premise of the thread was not what I think."

                  How can it not be when you open with:

                  "Talk about completely ignorant."

                  ?

                  "Yet, you claim not to be mocking me? "

                  I am not mocking you.

                  1. Cagsil profile image61
                    Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    roll

      2. MikeNV profile image71
        MikeNVposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Amen tongue

      3. wbfree profile image60
        wbfreeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I agree Sab Oh. It's so obvious that people who have a problem with God have chips on their shoulders and continually start argumentative threads trying to down grade or mock God, Christianity, and people of faith. Why can't they just leave it alone and let people believe what they want? They always have to be starting something.

        1. Cagsil profile image61
          Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          lol lol

          1. wbfree profile image60
            wbfreeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            My case is closed! You proved my point.

            1. Cagsil profile image61
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You proved you didn't have a point to begin with. That's about all you did. wink

            2. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              What point was that? That your ridiculous beliefs are guaranteed to cause a fight because you are incapable of keeping them to yourself and feel the need to interject them into every conversation?  Sure - I agree with that. Good for you sock puppet. lol

              Dear me - no morals - that is your problem. Bet you are a Christian....... sad

              1. wbfree profile image60
                wbfreeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Yep, my case have been proven. Too bad you couldn't keep your ridiculous comments to yourself. My case proven again.



                If you don't have any morals. That's YOUR problem. Not mine.

                Me a Christian?! Duh! Wow, you figured that out all by yourself. Great job Sherlock. My case proven AGAIN!

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No - your humility and un-willingness to get into a fight gave you away. wink

                  Gen -u-ine.

                  1. wbfree profile image60
                    wbfreeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    No sir. You gave yourself away and proved my case that you and the author of this thread have a huge God chip on your shoulders. Your fight is not with me, but with Him. You can't get to God, so you want me and other Christians to fight with you. I'm not playing your game.

                    I've made my point, shaken the dust off my feet and moving on.

          2. wbfree profile image60
            wbfreeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Laugh on, but when all is said and done:

            Proverbs 14:13 Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful; and the end of that mirth is heaviness.

            Laugh on. Yup it up!

            1. Pcunix profile image88
              Pcunixposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Her Holy Snortings 9:18

              ===
              The IPU shook her mane, and looked off across the field. "Go away, Man." She spoke softly, even kindly. Usually her words were caustic, full of sarcasm and disgust. But now she seemed almost tender. No fire was in her eyes, and her hooves were not pounding the earth. "Go away," she repeated. "Go and pray to your invisible friend. Chastise yourself, and praise him. Punish everyone who will not join you in your delusion. Feel good about that, and believe that your Make Believe Buddy will reward you for your cruelty. Take his commandments, and rule your life by their words. Do not question anything, do not use your pitiful mind; simply give yourself over to this pathetic dream."
              =====

              (As Translated from the Original Unicorn by Me and first published I Don't Remember When but it's pretty easy to find around the Net)

        2. Pcunix profile image88
          Pcunixposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          We aren't mocking any gods here (not that we might not elsewhere).

          We are mocking people who think that their life is predetermined and that they have no choices.

          If you said "I THINK my god wants me to do this" or even "I KNOW my god expects me to do that", that's very different from saying "There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in god's hands" or that their life is pre-determined.

          Those are statements that can only be called ignorant.   In fact, any person making such a statement would have to agree:  they can't really be THINKING about anything if it's all predetermined - their creator must have designed every noise that passes through their alleged brains.

          Such a fatalistic view also puts the problem of evil back on the god-thing itself.  That's why most religions insist we have free will - that's so they don't have to blame the Blameless One for evil and sin.

          So, yeah, I'd agree that these people are ignorant.  Ignorant of religious thought, at the very least.

    2. Dave Barnett profile image54
      Dave Barnettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      John Lennon said "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans" Most people are reluctant to sacrifice their illusion of "Free Will" which is incompatible with predetermined fate, But, if you hit a cue ball across the felt, it will cross from point A to B, yet along it's course, it passes an infinite number of points, which you predetermined by hitting the ball just the way you did.

      1. Dave Barnett profile image54
        Dave Barnettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        In short, you can plan all you want, but God's the one who wrote the script. so you can plan to "ad lib", but if it's not in the script...

        1. lorlie6 profile image84
          lorlie6posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ad libbing is also known as free will.

        2. Pcunix profile image88
          Pcunixposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Then how would you explain evil?

    3. bsscorpio8 profile image60
      bsscorpio8posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You know what this is saying? "Hey relax, go with the flow. What are you chasing? Where are you going?"

    4. Yankee Reb profile image57
      Yankee Rebposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I think the Hub was written by someone who has been enlightened by CORPORATE CHURCH and not God.

      My family and I are in the belief that a God helps us every day ...

      We are victims of the current economic downside and have taken about a $20,000 a year loss in income while cost of everything has goon up.

      Just yesterday - we saved just enough ($6.00) for the gate fee (which would have left us with literally 2-cents in the account) to get into a local park with designated swimming so my son could enjoy a last blast before school starts.

      When we got to the gate ... no one was there to take our money so we drove in

      When we left - we decided to put the $6.00 toward a few food supplies so we went to Big Lots

      ...as we went in my son found a dime on the ground - pretty nice!

      When we got to the register to pay for our stuff - the total was $6.08 which had us using the dime so that my son had 2-cents as did we.

      Sure - many of you call the coincidence ... but that type of thing happens ALL THE TIME to get us by.
      When I say all the time little things like that happen just about daily (that we notice)

      Every time we see things like that - we realize that if God feeds a bird in the winter why would he not meet our needs as well?

      The little things you take for granted may well be the Blessings you don't think you get!

      In life you head in a direction and do the best you can to appreciate what you are allowed to have ... tomorrow you may be removed from all of it through the results of an unexpected death - then what?

  2. TMMason profile image65
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    I think, they don't understand the plan, Cags.

    Or should I say, that is not the way I understand the plan.

    Thier understanding strikes me as fatalistic at the very least, bordering nihilistic.

  3. Pcunix profile image88
    Pcunixposted 7 years ago

    I think it is sad.

    If that is true, how do these people justify punishing anyone?  Do they think free will only applies to good and evil?

    The figures for this sort of ignorance are much lower in other countries - what makes Americans so foolish?

  4. Reality Bytes profile image91
    Reality Bytesposted 7 years ago

    It sounds like there are many people who feel they are not in control of what happens to their lives.  It is kind of sad for people to believe that no matter how hard they try the chips will fall where they will.

    1. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This thread is already amusing on several levels.

    2. Dave Barnett profile image54
      Dave Barnettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Au contrere, mon frere. I am in control, for if The Big G wants me to go here instead of there, I can go there. That doesn't mean that I am foiling the God by my actions. The whole thing is a logical trap.

  5. profile image0
    ryankettposted 7 years ago

    98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    1. Cagsil profile image61
      Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Unfortunately, this is believable, when you look at America's society overall.

    2. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "98% of statistics are made up on the spot."

      Like that one!

      1. Pandoras Box profile image67
        Pandoras Boxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        He clearly made that up.

    3. Teresa McGurk profile image61
      Teresa McGurkposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      --only 83% of the time.

  6. _cheryl_ profile image85
    _cheryl_posted 7 years ago

    If that's the case then why do anything at ALL! Let's all just sit our a$$ down with our fingers up our noses waiting for our lives fall to fate. Okay, that's sarcastically speaking. lol! But really, I personally believe in God. So with my belief, there's all the more reason to put to work all the great things I believe have been given to me. What good is a gift if it's not opened and used? We're not here to be puppets, we're made as human beings with our own brains, own minds, our own hearts. Regardless if you belive in God or not, to live life to the best of your ability which includes respecting life and showing responsibility among many things should be a striving factor towards achieving the most out of life. It's predetermined by our parents (most of us) that we will grow up and go to school. BUT- you still have those who drop out or fail. It takes consistent personal effort and hard work to be the best you can possibly be in order for your life to go the way you want it. Me personally, if you do all you can possibly do in life towards being the best that you can for yourself and towards others, everything falls into place. And if not, you'll have the mental strength through God to deal with anything that comes along. I don't agree with people who claim to have faith in God yet show no effort and actions towards putting forth their personal best in their lives. So your statistic to me is completely ignorant. What good is living if you don't work towards acheiving and planning, setting goals. For some of us God is a motivating factor and others seem to look at him as a genie. smile

  7. megs78 profile image60
    megs78posted 7 years ago

    I think it makes sense.  If God has pre-determined someones fate, then ultimately, their fate is in His hands.  What is so confusing about those two statements?  or did I interpret it wrong?

    1. TMMason profile image65
      TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      God has not pre-determined your fate, you have free choice.

      God has simply seen your choices and the outcomes, and allowed you to make and live them.

      It is not that he makes, or determines your choices for you. He has simply seen what your choices will be.

      1. megs78 profile image60
        megs78posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ummm, did you actually take the time to read this thread?  because if you did, you would know I was merely responding to a quote, not making a statement.

        1. TMMason profile image65
          TMMasonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          oh I read the thread... I am just continueing along.

          Why?

          Do you always take offense to anyone simply speaking to you. Is there something wrong with me talking about another view? lol

          And you not only made a statement in the above... you asked 2 ?s also.

          1. megs78 profile image60
            megs78posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            no, i just don't want you insinuating that I took that stand.  I didn't.  I simply didn't see how those two statements were contradictory or ignorant as the poster implied.  Thats it.

            1. Cagsil profile image61
              Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Hey Mega,

              The ignorance is in believing that life is pre-determined. wink

              1. Sab Oh profile image57
                Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                "The ignorance is in believing that life is pre-determined."

                Ok, it is clear that you disagree, but why is that "ignorance"?

                1. Cagsil profile image61
                  Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Because it is a lack of(ignorance) understanding their own life. But, I would thought you knew that already. wink

                  1. Pcunix profile image88
                    Pcunixposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    In Sab's world, WE are all ignorant.  Therefore, anything we say must be wrong, even when it plainly isn't.

                    Tell him/it/her anything: you'll be wrong.

                    I already explained why it is ignorant, Oh Masked One.

                  2. Sab Oh profile image57
                    Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    "Because it is a lack of(ignorance) understanding their own life."


                    So, you think YOU know the truth of life where others do not...?

  8. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    I don't know...

    1. Dave Barnett profile image54
      Dave Barnettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh you sinful generation, you who have so little faith, and so little understanding. LOL

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Umm, yeah, OK, certainly you have more lol

  9. Evan G Rogers profile image79
    Evan G Rogersposted 7 years ago

    First, let's not jump to whack-o conclusions.

    If you agree with a statement, then that doesn't mean you just sit around all day waiting for god to tell you what to do.

    I'm an atheist and all, but no matter HOW much someone thinks that they are being controlled by god, they still aren't capable of shedding their evolutionary-generated need to survive and plan ahead.

  10. rebekahELLE profile image88
    rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago

    ah, come on guys, no plans for the day. lol  [sorry..]


    hey, here's part of a great quote I read yesterday by Thoreau.
    "Men are in the main alike, but they were made several in order they they might be various.. "   

    in other words, we're all different but the same.
    as far as not planning.. probably why some are more successful than the rest..

  11. Cagsil profile image61
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Hey Mark, nice to see you. smile How are you? smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hot and sticky. big_smile You?

      1. Cagsil profile image61
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Inside air conditioning... lol But, it's hot and sticky outside. smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No A/C - melting. sad

  12. katiem2 profile image57
    katiem2posted 7 years ago

    I believe MY life is what I make of it!  Peace smile

  13. Pcunix profile image88
    Pcunixposted 7 years ago

    I wonder where in the Plan we atheists fit?

    Gosh, what a strange plan it must be.   Perhaps we got rewarded for being extra good in some previous life - rewarded by being free of brain warping nonsense?

    No, that wouldn't make sense, would it?

    I like the IPU, myself.  Thundering Inaudible Hooves, Invisible Pinkness, Pineapple and Ham Pizza - stuff that makes SENSE!

  14. wilderness profile image96
    wildernessposted 7 years ago

    What seems funny to me is that apparently 29% believe God has predetermined their life but don't believe that He controls it.

    1. Pcunix profile image88
      Pcunixposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Contradictions in religious thought?  Impossible!

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Sounds ignorant to me. big_smile

        1. Dave Barnett profile image54
          Dave Barnettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hey, Cag, remember me? I asked you days ago why you were in a religious forum, when you obviously think anyone who believes in something is fulla crap. You must be really insecure with your own beleifs, otherwise why do you insist in participating in something you think is fulla crap? Is your lack of faith eating at you? I get the impression you are quite young, say, like ten?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Just trying to educate the ignorant - but - as you say - you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

            Sorry me trying to help people deal with their fear bothers you so. You must be very angry. Take it out on some homosexuals why don't you?

            1. Sab Oh profile image57
              Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              "Sorry me trying to help people deal with their fear bothers you so. "


              Shouldn't you work out your own fears first? And shouldn't we stick to the thread topic instead of these unproductive asides?

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Sorry TK Sensei - I didn't mean to talk about things you are incapable of grasping. My mistake.

                Lets get back to wot god sed.

                Did god sed it wot u dun got no choices TK?

                1. Sab Oh profile image57
                  Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Keep calling me other people's names all you want, it really won't distract from your avoidance of your own fears.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    What fears are they TK Sensei?

                    I already said I am scared of people who think they have an invisible super being in complete control of their actions.

                    Aren't you?

  15. LeanMan profile image80
    LeanManposted 7 years ago

    I love the religious forums... Always good for a laugh...

    Instead of debating something it always degenerates into insulting each other... It's a bit like a bad marriage!

    If someone wont agree with your point you insult them...

    You all act like kids.... Will you be having a fight after school behind the bike sheds?

    I thought it was a good topic to post about... but some people just have to make it personal rather than debate it...

    Off to bed, my choice not gods... I control my life (well most of it when my wife lets me..)

    1. lorlie6 profile image84
      lorlie6posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This is A LOT like a bad marriage, and like you, LeanMan, I'm outta here.

    2. Sab Oh profile image57
      Sab Ohposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      "You all act like kids.... Will you be having a fight after school behind the bike sheds?"


      Would that it were that easy. Harder, it seems, to exercise some self control in discussion. But if we all just try, we can all make it that much better...

      1. psycheskinner profile image81
        psycheskinnerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        [insert ironic smiley here]

    3. Pandoras Box profile image67
      Pandoras Boxposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Smart man. wink

  16. Pandoras Box profile image67
    Pandoras Boxposted 7 years ago

    So yeah. It's partly silly feel-good charismatics, and partly fundamental calvinists.

    TULIP. Total depravity (of humans), unconditional election (to salvation by god), Limited Atonement (Christ's death on the crucifix only atoned for the sins of the elect, not for the sins of everybody), ummm... oh yeah - Irresistable Grace (the elect cannot resist or reject god's salvation, and likewise the unelect can not choose salvation) and Preserverance of the Saints (aka once saved, always saved).

    Those are the five points of calvinism, made up by John Calvin, a man recently inserted into Texas history books in place of Thomas Jefferson, because the 'Saints' of Texas decided that John Calvin had more influence in American history than Jefferson did, even though Calvin never stepped a foot in the 'new world'.

    It suddenly occurs to me that Texas may be right. hmm

  17. mega1 profile image79
    mega1posted 7 years ago

    97% of all my friends have no free will at all!  I asked them and they didn't even know what free will is!

    1. lorlie6 profile image84
      lorlie6posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Mega, I have no idea where I LEFT mine, so I guess I'll just leave this 'discussion' to the others.

 
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