My country Haiti is in debt, because France made them pay an independence fee of 90 million dollars over 200 years ago. Which took Haiti approximately 120 years to pay off. Due to the economic changes and inflammation, that same 90 million is worth 40 billion dollars. There is no valuable sources to live a good life, and be productive in Haiti, because they are still in debt. the country is in the shape and predicament that it is in because it had to pay so much. Now that the people are suffering, with no good water supply or anything wheres the damn help. Many organizations in america and other surrounding countries sent aid and relief funds, wheres the money gone. something is definitely not right with the way the government is operating down there. Money is coming in for help but the people are not seeing a penny of it. or is the money for the relief even down there at all. this raises a series of questions to be answered.
it doesnot make sense to me..why would a country pay money for its own independence?..anyways now since it is by gone , one can't stand frozen on what happened 200 years or 120 years or 80 years back..as you said haiti paid debt 80 years back and for small country like haiti 80 years is more than enough to stand tall..isn't it?
Look sir, all im saying is if my country was not forced to pay such a ridiculous amount of money for there independence, regardless of how long ago, they would not be in their current situation. And my country has been free from slavery for over 400 years, that payment was issude during that first year, and was not done untill 120 after. its been more like 350 years, but how could they stand tall when they've been stripped of it all. 20 to 30 years from now, france, america and all the surrounding nations will feel the pain of a lack of resources that my country has felt for centuries. Why do you think in america today people are putting in efforts for a more sustainable earth, which i am a part of on my college campus. Its only a matter of time untill people start rebelling in efforts to help themselves, then what will these countries do. the only thing that i see we have in preventing these things that i predict will happen is if all the nations come together as one in unity and start brainstorming how funding will take place enable to gather resources from other planets.
The reason for Haiti's poverty is not debt from umpteen decades ago. The reason for Haiti's poverty is that nobody produces anything of value. In more direct words, Haitians are economically unproductive. Haiti is a nation, but debts owed by that nation are collected from the government. Thus, it is NOT from the people directly. So, if the people are poor and earn nothing, it is not because the government owes, it is because they produce nothing, or they produce nothing that has economic value high enough to earn them a signficant income.
There's a lot of reasons for this:
Unstable government drives off long term investment in productive business.
Terrible infrastructure means business can't rely on communications, transportation, power, or much else to be able to predict future production capability nor how it can reliably produce and deliver goods or services.
Lack of equitable law and courts results in the flight of capital to places where success is not automatically turning you into a target for the government to oppress.
Low literacy means difficulty in hiring good employees to do productive things.
What could Haiti do? Improve law, improve education, remove the corruption from its government and court system. Implement sane and stable law that does not punish success. Stop protecting inefficient and incompetent state busineses like the ISP and telephone co's and let competition, even that funded by outside firms revitalize the infrastructure, both economically and physically.
That's just a start. But it's a good start.
To me that sounds like a more educated way to say Fuck You. well i just want to say yes you maybe correct about some of your reasons why, however, everyone looks at whats going on, and not the intial stand point on how it started. If france give my people that money back, everything will be straight. they kidnapped my ex president Jean Bertrand Aristide for filing a lawsuit against france for 40 billion. they threatend to kill him and everything, so dont tell me whats good for my country if your not out there trying to help. What my people needs if i should say is that money that the citizens of these surrounding countries had sent for their aid, to be sent down there. everyones talking about jobs, well my people need to be taught, and well highly educated in all areas to help improve there current state. yes they had years to replenish but how can you replenish when governmental forces from other nations have to much power and say so on things that have absolutely nothing to do with them. i say all the leaders that are french, American, mexican, and anyother race remove they selves from haiti asap and allow haitians to fill in the positions. my people are in poverty because of the false accountability that those non haitians are providing to them. in other words if your not a haitian citizen, born of haitian decent, GET THE HELL OUT OF ANY OFFICE AND LET MY PEOPLE TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTAL BUSINESS. But take precaution because my people are strong people they may not have the best that life have to offer but we will over come.
It's amazing that Haiti was able to pay off the debt at all! I think that's an incredible accomplishment.
But now there has to be some sort of accountability from those who are supposed to disburse the aid today. Where are the other nations that should help give oversight of some kind?
Do you think there's any hope that the upcoming election will bring some positive changes? Are there any good possibilities among the candidates?
Im sorry i was late in responding, but the president that they have now, he is no type of real political figure he has no leadership potentila, nor is he capable of getting my people from their current state. he is just a mere puppet doing whatever, those that hold the real power tell him to do. When wyclef tried becoming president, my people would not allow beacuse they knew he was a weak link that would allow other stupid things to occur, my people are dying by the hour and he cant do nothing why because he is a nobody. And i stand firm on all that i say, my people need ex president jean bertrand aristide back in power. the govermental forces down there kidnapped him and threatened to kill him because they knew the change that would take place, they know the fear that other countries would posses if haitians had control of their own accomplishments. I and other people in my generation and future generations to come will not just sit back and allow for our people to become exempt. We need real Haitian political people in power, to have the say so, the president we have now aint shit and will never be shit, he's just there to make the people think that something is going to happen. I can see the fear in that guys eyes, he is not ready to take on the burden that my people are facing. if you ask me, the people will need to take the power back into their own hands like our first real leader toussaint did, when he freed our nation from slavery. I hope that answered your question.
Why are you blaming France? Haiti after independence could have been a successful republic but there was a lot of fighting and struggling for power without any thought to running country or the general welfare of the people and that is what has failed the country.
It is customary in most countries to have a good moan about the French
Also they did kind of create the starting conditions that had a big influence on the country spiraling into corruption and poverty.
the french is weak as hell, they created all them fake tales about how napoleon defeated us Haitians in war when they know we took down every army that came through. all our people wanted was peace, the colonization process that was suppose to happen did not occur because they lost their leader that the french had kidnapped and left for dead in the mountains. if my people were left alone things like their general welfare would have been straight, i guarantee that my people are not blaming france for what they did, but for what they are not doing in regards to their situation. the only reason why frances is well off is because of that debt that they hAD to pay off.
After Haiti gained independence France blockaded the island and extorted the "independence fee" as reparations for property and income lost as a result of the rebellion. Never mind that the rebels were slaves, who had had pretty much everything taken from them, and in my opinion were owed by France rather than owing anything to France.
This is relatively new information for me, too. I only learned about the payments from Haiti to France since the earthquake.
Haiti's history is full of ineptness and corruption, that probably had far more to do with Haiti's current situation than paying the French debt off.
that dept still feeds into that situation FK, dont act as if your blind and cant see what really is going on.
Well, you've got presidential elections coming up and a lot of candidates to choose from. Finding the ones that are least corrupt can be difficult but very beneficial in the long term. Of course, that's easier said than done, because the most corrupt politicians usually have the larger campaign funds.
Haiti has been a basket case from the beginning. Dessaline ordered the murder of all remaining whites on the island after independence and proclaimed himself "Emperor for Life". Not exactly a promising start for a nascent "republic". In 1821 Haiti invaded and took over Santo Domingo, which has been characterized by Dominicans as cruel and barbaric. And let's not forget the Code Rural, which attempted to tie laborers to the land. Feudalism anyone?
There was even an attempt to settle former black slaves in Haiti in the early 19th century as a way to end the "peculiar institution" in the US. Conditions were so deplorable that many of those 6,000 free blacks returned to the US.
Now I'll agree that the French were right bastards about sailing in and demanding 150 million francs, later reduced to 90 million, but that is not why Haiti today is in such bad shape. In 200 years of history, Haiti has suffered 32 coups. In short, your people have been ruled by thugs and tyrants. That is why Haiti is in the condition it is today.
I won't even deny that the US screwed up in what amounted to a conquering and occupation of the island in 1915. I would, however, remind you that this was the policy of Woodrow Wilson and his Progressives successors like FDR, whose insanity we're still suffering from.
And then there's good old "Papa Doc" Duvalier and his successor "Bebe" Doc. It's interesting to read how the history has been skewed here a bit. There are those who believe, much like some Germans about Hitler, that the two Doc's were good for Haiti. Never mind that they participated in what amounted to genocide from the Tonton Macoutes.
Finally we get some idea of how and why modern Haiti is in the state it is in. It was the Tonton Macoutes who have been responsible for several of the most current coup attempts, notably in 1988 and 1991. We all remember Jean Bertrand Aristide don't we?
Since 2000 there has been violence and attacks against the populace over the successful campaign of Aristide for a second term to the Presidency, which he began that year. So political instability and corruption seem to be major factors as to why Haiti is so poor.
Another reason is the fact that 66% of the population work in the agriculture sector, primarily subsistence farming. There isn't a nation in the world which practices that sort of farming that can come close to being rich. Another problem with Haiti is the 50% literacy rate and the fact that 80% of college graduates leave the country. They mostly go to the US. Good for us, bad for Haiti. Finally the reliance on foreign aid is crippling the initiative of any Haitian who might want to build something. Since 1990, Haiti has been the recipient of 4 billion in aid, 1.5 billion of that from the US. No nation can support its people when 40% of its budget comes from foreign aid.
Things are so bad there almost 20% of Haitians live somewhere else like the US, Canada, Bahamas, France, Dominican Republic, etc. What it comes down to is that you can take the easy way out and blame everyone else for your problems, but the fact is that most of your current problems are self-inflicted. The good news is that since you are doing this to yourself, you can choose to stop and create a new, brighter history for Haiti.
i agree with the creation of a brighter history, but like i said on some comments before they need back that 40 billion. and every haitian college graduate, with some degree needs to go back to haiti and donate like 5 to 10 years of they life to help their people.
YES I think it is disgusting that a bunch of slaves stripped of all dignity, cultural ties, racial memories confused by many tribal peoples forced together, stamped with hatred by unfettered and vicious religious weirdo's, who eventually 'bought' their own freedom - to be allowed to start a people and country from scratch - why haven't they managed to create a monumental civilization in less than 300 years !!!!
And lets not forget the huge helping hand from outside which consisted of attempted invasions and trade barriers among many other even less savoury incursions.
I fail to understand how those who criticise Haiti can be SO one-eyed, and so wilfully ignorant of how these people came to this situation. We cannot just step back and say it was nothing to do with us, look at how badly they are doing!
AP, you can't change the past, but you can change the future. You might have a great time navel gazing and telling people how horrible they are for things that were done centuries ago, but that does nothing to help people today. But then it's not like you really care about those people, you just like the topic because it allows you to get on your hobby horse.
Look at the difference between Haitians and African-Americans. American slaves were under bondage for longer than Haitians, yet when you consider the differences in the life of the average Haitian vs the life of the average African-American there is a huge difference. What's that difference? America, by and large, hasn't been ruled by thugs and madmen like Haiti has.
Slavery was 200 years ago. In no way shape or form can slavery still be any sort of reason as to why the Haitian people are in the trouble they're in today.
You have an almost unbelievably shallow view of things. History is what makes us, and I was responding to your white supremacist style take on history. And no you can't change the future, that will happen due to the complex activities of everyone. But you can try and educate as many as possible rather than promoting your own insularity and near-sightedness.
And it is only your view that America has not been ruled by thugs and madmen, ALL of the rest of the world would say that exactly describes Bush.
White supremacist? You do realize I'm Hispanic, right? I'd take a look at my own prejudices and hatred before I started pointing it out in others, were I you.
Why am I even arguing with you, you bring nothing to the table except the same old tired, "I'm white and i hate myself nonsense" or "Western Civilization is evil". You might try expanding your mind a little and read up on things a bit more before you start talking.
If you have any argument then bring it - attacking me will not make your flat earth position any more convincing.
I guess the problem for you is that they did not own enough stuff - from your previous comments, and their laws did not protect your stuff
You are obviously too young to remember how the blacks were treated before the civil rights act was passed in this country. This island, along with others, is still trying to overcome their history of being used as depositories and training facilities for slaves used by France, Spain, and the U.S.
Isn't is strange how these islands, so close to us, are allowed to be run by tyrants while we attempt to police the middle east and other parts of the world. No oil?
You're right, the only reason we're in the Near East is because of oil. I'll not argue that. Perhaps you'd like to see a world without oil today, but personally, I'd like some alternative to take the place of oil first.
Funny how you "American's are racist" people don't seem to understand the miracle of China and India's emerging economies. Those, too, were countries who were dominated by imperial powers and kept from advancing the well being of their people. Well China also had the problem of an Eastern Despot type government, but I'll let the be for the moment.
Today these countries are doing extremely well, even considering the global downturn in trade and the global economy in general. Why? Because they are, more and more, adopting free market principles. Like it or not it has been the free market that has catapulted the US to global dominance and it's only been our gradual movement away from those principles that have caused us the problems we have economically.
That, too, is a big part of what it wrong in Haiti. Haitian leadership use government as a tool to control and squeeze the common Haitian. Indeed governments the world over do this, but nowhere is it more open and rapacious than Haiti.
ledef i dont think you know what the hell you are talking about, African americans were in two totally different situations, they recieved help after theyre struggle was over haitians recieved none at all. I think you should close your mouth cause you know not of which you speak.
thank you for that input sir. my country greatly appreciates it.
I feel really bad for the people of Haiti -- the entire region has suffered for so long for so many different reasons.
No one "deserves" to suffer like that! Even if you blame the leaders, how could you think that the average Haitian - especially innocent children - deserve this sort of punishment?
Who said that the Haitians deserve to suffer?
I'ts a horrible situation that Haiti is responsible for. If you ever had the opportunity to live among them you would have a better understanding. Give them all the money you want to, it's not going to change a thing.
well if 50% of your population is illiterate and 80% of the literate people leave....you can imagine that a large majority of the literate people are opportunist(putting it mildly). Then there is this level of poverty that you can't even imagine. There is also a huge problem with infectious disease. Like AIDS, HIV, HEP C, etc. Imagine the worst possible scenario and multiply it by 10. One side of the Island to the other...Night and Day.
Haiti is too close to US yet too far away. It would be natural that the influence of US economy would be felt there but it not.
The people of Haiti should identify where their problem is and then solve it.
y'all can say whatever you wanna say about Haiti, ngureco is right, we, haitians need help and support from others. We're not getting anywhere with the pass thing ya be talking off and on, everyone knows what happened, but no one knows what's gonna happen tomorrow and the days after. One thing I'm sure of, is that only haitian people could change Haiti, Not american, not chiness, not cuban, not governments but only haitian people. I'm ready and I'll find all the haitians like me, who really up for some changes.
No country or people deserves to suffer. It's just a fact of life that some do.
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