It is carrying the argument for political correctness a bit too far to have this Islamic monument at ground zero. What is the point? What do you want to prove? Is it really needed at the exact spot?
Logic and common sense should tell it is unnecessary provocation. A needless controversy has been created. As if there is no other problem that needs attention and solution....
there is a good article on this in last weeks TIME magazine: "Is America Islamaphobic?" check it out...
well i dont think it is just islamaphobic..there are many different aspects to this issue..first do muslims have right to built mosque..well in any secular civilized country ..every community has right to built their worship place..usa is not saudi arabia ..
second is should they built it or should they give healing touch to those who lost their kins..tricky issue..
third is politics..well politics works on fear,greed ..so it is understandable...
First off, I'm not saying that America is 'islamaphobic'... that is merely the title of the article.
Secondly, I have always been under the impression that the US is a free country, land of the free type place right? In that sense, muslims living in America should have/do have the right to build a mosque wherever they please (given proper permits and payments). The issue is whether or not it's really necessary to build a monument to Islam, in an area that many Americans believe was nearly destroyed because of that very religions beliefs (while in actuality, only the beliefs of a few extremists out of millions). It's a very sensitive area, and I completely understand why many are asking, "can't you build it somewhere else?" At the same time, this is a free country...right?
"It is carrying the argument for political correctness a bit too far to have this Islamic monument at ground zero. What is the point? What do you want to prove? Is it really needed at the exact spot? "
LOL. It's not at ground zero. It's a couple blocks away.
"A needless controversy has been created."
You got that right: created by right-wing pundits looking for a nice wedge issue for the 2010 elections.
It's good that some of us realize this. It's my hope that enough of us realize this.
Holding 18,000,000 people responsible for the actions of a few is not logical or sensible.
Image from: http://snarla.wordpress.com/
Is it legal? YES
Is it approved by the communities elected/appointed zoning officials? YES
Is it wise? you decide. IMO NO. But my opinion doesn't matter. Only the people who decided to build a Mosque there.
Sometimes it's not what happens to you, but how you react. We are going to see some very telling reactions in the media circus that follows. We may have seen some already...Murpheesboro.
Does the mosque on this spot represent healing or not? Wouldn't it be better for the Islamic community to pour funds into the 9/11 memorial and build the mosque some where else? Wouldn't that be more healing? They will still be able to build their mosque and benefit the community in a positive fashion. This other step is very insensitive and potentially harmful to the many who lost loved ones on September 11, 2001. It just doesn't make sense. Building a mosque on this site only benefits Muslims, and no one else.
Yes. Many everyday Americans whose faith is Islam have felt under attack since those A-holes whose faith also happened to be Islam crashed planes on 9/11. A cyclical expansion of tension has been going on ever since.
Healing can happen in two ways, ONE, the "Christians" (I use this term loosely to include everyone opposed) involved in this can practice the "turning the other cheek" thing that I believe Jesus suggest was a nice idea... and those everyday Muslims who just work and raise kids and do crap like the rest of us can see the Christians offering an olive branch instead of lumping them together with the A-holes in the planes. Who wouldn't be hurt being lumped together with A-holes? That's one part of healing.
Another part of healing is that the "Christians," by doing this, can heal themselves via healing the gross dismissal of the Constitution that has been going on by both "sides" of EVERYTHING. If the people in opposition to this mosque, this free exercise of religion, can recognize they are having an emotional reaction to 9/11 and all the crap since, if they recognize this, they can stop doing it. Instead they can let this be a land ruled by laws and then the country's IDEOLOGICAL heart can start to heal. Who knows, maybe the left will stop their emotional attacks on the 2nd Amendment too. Lots of healing could happen as people return to the Constitution rather than religions and contentious differences between the gods.
Not if they were compelled to do it by a horde of screaming Christians yelling epithets and hoisting racist signs. That doesn't heal anything, that makes people feel like they are NOT part of "all men are created equal" and are not enjoying "freedom of religion" and that laws regarding private property are only laws if you belong to a state approved race or religion.
It's very nice of you to point them to an option that suits your feelings, but how much consideration are you giving to theirs?
The people who lost loved ones on 9/11 are angry and suffering. The people who thought they lived in a country with freedom of religion and racial equality are also angry and suffering. Both "sides" are angry and suffering, because some OTHER people crashed planes into all of our country.
So everyone is suffering. Who is going to be the bigger "person?" Who is going to realize that this is all emotion boiling over?
Would it be a nice gesture for the imam trying to build it to say, "Hey, wow, this is crazy. We didn't mean to cause a ruckus. We'll build elsewhere?" Yeah, that would be a great POLITICAL move on his part. Or it would have been several weeks ago. He's obviously not a good politician.
So now we are left with the Constitution and humans who have angry hearts and intelligent brains. I guess the question is, which organ will prevail? For intelligence and reason and the higher ideals of America to prevail, someone has to turn the other cheek.
the first amendment, and the 10th amendment, when taken together, clearly make this a state issue.
The new york state constitution makes it illegal to outlaw this sort of thing.
And the document that the Declaration of Independence is based upon (written by John Locke. I can't think of the title, sorry), states that people have a right to their property.
What's the problem again? People hate muslims? well too bad. they have rights, too.
Not really sure what this question is. You refer to an "slamic monument at ground zero." Are you referring to Park51? The community center and mosque two blocks away from ground zero?
The point is to not be prejudiced against Muslims. The point is not telling people what they can and cannot do with their own land. That isn't being PC, it's being fair.
PC has NOTHING to do with this. We either have freedom of religion in the U.S. or we don't. Period. If they follow the same ordinances and laws etc. that anyone else would have to follow to operate in that location, preventing them from building is counter to a basic tenet of this country. It would be religious intolerance, probably count as racism, and would be a gigantic step backwards for the cause of freedom. Not to mention it would be like handing hearts and minds over to the REAL enemies who are using Islam as the vehicle to perpetrate acts of hate. Evil men hide behind Islam in the same way they hide behind women and children to avoid being shot.
As for the two blocks thing... if we're going to do that, then how many blocks is acceptable? 4? 8? Do those damn Muslims need to find theirselfs another city all tergether... yeee hawww! ???
On the lighter side of the news, I read (this isn't a joke, though it make sound like one) some gay guy and his jewish pal were setting-up (or planning to) a titty-bar next door.
If that came to pass, they could hardly complain.
Have you been to that neighborhood? It already has churches, gay bars and adult stores. That is what makes objection to a community centre blatantly bigoted.
And no, they wouldn't complain. It is just your stereotyping that makes you think they would.
That's what I get for trying to be a little light-hearted. Forgive my quip!
Oh and for the record, you are wrong, they have already complained:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/10/g … ibilities/
"Have you been to that neighborhood? It already has churches, gay bars and adult stores. That is what makes objection to a community centre blatantly bigoted."
So citizens of the US who have the right to their own opinions and every right to express them are bigoted because they do so?
That there is some thinking.
Political correctness is a misconception. It's a joke to begin with. It only teaches people to lie and be dishonest. I wrote a hub on it.
The simple crux of the issue is right here:
"A needless controversy has been created."
And Jeff Berendt hit it right on the head:
"You got that right: created by right-wing pundits looking for a nice wedge issue for the 2010 elections."
Hell-OOO??? Do you people who are working yourselves up into a lather about this even GET the fact you're being used as pawns to perpetuate the paranoia and intolerance???
Do you even get the fact that you are arguing against what you claim to be your bedrock document (besides the Bible -- that's another story): The Constitution?
Oh yes, and one other thing before I move on to a topic that isn't an endless loop. Those of you who are suddenly so "sensitve" to the plight of the 9/11 victims' families, are you aware that there is a growing movement among them to SUPPORT this mosque?
And if you're so outraged by 9/11, why then do you support elected officials who vote against financials support for the first responders who bravely risked their own lives on that day only to become sickened and weak later?
I usually try to avoid labels, but in this case the label fits: HYPOCRITE.
As a Christian, I say if is OK for a Church to be built there based on city zoning laws, then a Mosque should be allowed to be built there too.
Let people pray to whomever they want.. Jesus, Allah, Krishna, the Spaghetti Monster.. or let them not pray at all if that is there choosing.
Keep the State and political correctness out of people's religious lives, and keep people's religious view out of the State and government.
Only then will those that attacked on 9/11 truly lose, and only then will the values that they attacked emerge triumphantly.
Debate? What debate?
This is actually reminiscent of the Bush years. Anyone who criticized attacking Iraq was labeled disloyal. Not disloyal to the government, but to our TROOPS.
In this case, anyone who dares suggest the land owners have a Constitutional right to build whatever they want on their land is labeled insensitve. How DARE WE be so insensitve to the victims of 9/11???!!!
The methodology is strikingly similar.
Same pupeteers masterminding the campaign, too.
"This is actually reminiscent of the Bush years. Anyone who criticized attacking Iraq was labeled disloyal."
And anyone who criticizes this is a bigot.
Congratulations, you see the hypocrisy.
This is a hoot. You have wingnuts who ridicule 'politicaly correct ' are now complaining that when they are acting like bigots - we shouldn't call them bigots, but find a term which saves their feelings. Couch our criticism in terms which makes repugnant behavour acceptable.
It's not acceptable. It's un-American. (Read the 2nd Amendmant.) It's a bumper crop of bigotry being cultivated for election harvest.
"You have wingnuts who ridicule 'politicaly correct ' are now complaining that when they are acting like bigots - we shouldn't call them bigots, but find a term which saves their feelings. Couch our criticism in terms which makes repugnant behavour acceptable."
The wing-nuts have their own version of political correctness. They just don't like to call it that.
Too many people living in the past, instead of living in the present. It's getting ridiculous.
I do see your point, Jim.
But the whole issue is being controlled by the right.
The messaging is being controlled by the right.
The framing of this issue is "Forget religious freedom, this proposed mosque is an insult, assault, slap in the face, whatever else you want to call it, to America as a whole because of the memory of 9/11."
It is people who are at least willing to listen to the facts who are being labeled. Not the other way around.
Another way to look at it:
When in doubt, just say NO. Obstructionism is the way to go!
I am posting this email I received without comment.
> A brilliant idea
> Is it true that the idea of a mosque near Ground Zero is to promote
> Well it has been suggested that a gay nightclub be opened next door to the
> mosque. Two names proposed for the club are;"The Turban Cowboy" & "You
> Mecca Me Hot". A life size statue of Mohammed will be prominently
> displayed in front of the bar. On the other side should be a butcher shop
> specializing in pork. Across the street, a store that
> sells and displays ladies lingerie and bikinis on live models, adding a
> sex shop would be a possibility as well as a pornographic book store.
> This would all be legal according to zoning. And for all of you real
> Marine, Army, Navy, Air Force types- how about a recruiting headquarters
> across the street?
> Now go forth and promote tolerance.
As others have pointed out, there are already gay nightclubs in the area. Probably also restaurants serving pork, though maybe not *specializing* in it. Strip clubs, too.
It's downtown New York, for heaven's sake, one of the most densely built up parts of the whole world. There's probably something that will offend somebody within two blocks of EVERYTHING.
Actually, US bombed too many mosques in Iraq , many don't even have insurgents in them, those attacks just based on faulty intelligence.
Dozens of new churches is being built each month in many muslim countries like in Indonesia.
Those who reject the islamic centre in NY is abit ignorant in my opinion
I also prefers me eggs plain. I does not like gweeen eggs and hammm shoved down me thwoat.
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