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It's here, a riot in LA.

  1. Flightkeeper profile image80
    Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago

    Demonstrators attacked the LAPD Rampart Station to protest the shooting of Manuel Jamines, who came at three police officers with a switchblade.  Manuel Jamines died. The police chief defends the shooting as defensive.  The area where this incident happened is an immigrant neighborhood.  Are we beginning to see the same problems with immigrants that the French are having with theirs?

    1. Pcunix profile image90
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why don't we round them up and shoot them?

      To be safe, maybe we should go back a few generations.   Where were your great grandparents born?

      1. Flightkeeper profile image80
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        That's a bit of a hysterical reaction isn't it Pcunix?  Careful, the dye in your hair might be sinking into your brain cells and causing that reaction.

        1. Pcunix profile image90
          Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, I think you can't be too careful with these dirty, Democrat voting immigrants.  That's why I want to know when your family got here.

          I "belong" here.  All of my ancestors came on the Mayflower or soon after, long before the formation of the United States.   I think the country has definitely gone down hill since we let in all the riff-raff after that and I think we should retroactively correct that situation.

          So again:  when did your ancestors get here?

          1. Flightkeeper profile image80
            Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            You're a foreigner and part of the riff raff. My ancestors were here before yours were and they killed my family so go home.

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              smile

              Good answer smile

          2. lady_love158 profile image60
            lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think your ancestors got lost, they were looking for Cuba. You should try immigrating there. They have lots of room with all the people risking their lives on inner tubes fleeing that socialist paradise you should have no problem finding an unoccupied home.

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              It is really ironic that you TP people keep thinking that liberal policies lead to communism.

              The facts are that your free wheeling, low taxes,  capitalism is our god society is what will create massive poverty and misery.

              Liberals don't want communism.  We just want to keep the rich from exploiting the helpless and to create a fair and just society where the playing field is as even as it can be.  We can't ever reach perfection on that and sometimes, yes, things swing too far to the left and sometimes they swing to far to the right. 

              The Tea Party is far too much to the right.

              1. lady_love158 profile image60
                lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                The playing field is already level. Equal opportuinty does not mean equal results. You think everyone should get a trophy just for being on the team even if they never played the game! That's the kind of society you want to create!

                1. 0
                  Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Yup. That's what socialism is like; make everyone the "same" no matter what their skills, desires, or abilities;  drones basically!   Well, I don't wanna be a drone.  I enjoy diversity, that thing that liberals claim to want, but really just want everyone to be just as non-specifically liberal as they are.

                  1. bgamall profile image86
                    bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    10 percent of the USA population control 93 percent of the assets. A society cannot last long if the ratios get worse. And a large portion of the wealth was transferred through the massive ponzi scam known as the housing bubble.

                  2. Pcunix profile image90
                    Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Stop lying, Brenda.

                    None of us are advocating wage equality.  We all believe in capitalism and opportunity.  We simply understand that it needs controls and that progressive taxation helps government do the necessary tasks we have given to it.

                    Fools of the Tea Party want to destroy the fabric of our society and turn us into a nation of a few wealthy people who watch from their walled cities while the poor crawl through garbage dumps.

                2. Pcunix profile image90
                  Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  You are incorrectly portraying liberal positions.

                  But that's typical of the right wing:  lying is acceptable.

                  1. lady_love158 profile image60
                    lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Really? How so? You only want to take some (more) wealth away from the productive and successful risk taking rich and give it to the poor, for no other reason than you like Obama think "at some point you made enough money".

                    That's the liberal position stated by your (let me be clear)head progressive Obama. So where is the lie?

              2. Jim Hunter profile image61
                Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                "Liberals don't want communism.  We just want to keep the rich from exploiting the helpless and to create a fair and just society where the playing field is as even as it can be."

                "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

                I think we know what you want.

                1. Pcunix profile image90
                  Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Jim, you don't know anything about what I want or about what any liberal wants.

                  You are the type of person I steadfastly ignore in real life.  I don't bother to try to engage you in conversation because your mind is made up on everything ahead of time.  You never see shades of gray, do not understand nuance and are not worth my wasting my time on.

                  1. Jim Hunter profile image61
                    Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    "You never see shades of gray, do not understand nuance and are not worth my wasting my time on."

                    But you did anyway. lol

                    Chasing your tail.

                2. bgamall profile image86
                  bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Are you one of the top 10 percent that controls 93 percent of the assets Jim or are you just one of the millions that are brainwashed by them? I think the latter. Why do people always oppose their own self interest? Especially if they can't afford to do so????

            2. Joe Badtoe profile image60
              Joe Badtoeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I think you have a problem with Cuba but then I can imagine where that inbuilt ignorance of a country comes from.

              Quite sad really.

              1. Jim Hunter profile image61
                Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Cubans have a problem with Cuba, I guess they don't think its such a paradise even with the free health care.

              2. lady_love158 profile image60
                lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I have no problem at all with Cuba, it's a socialist paradise! I think all the democrats should go live there. I'm sure they'll be welcome with open arms being that they have a free and open border that welcomes immigrants.

                1. Joe Badtoe profile image60
                  Joe Badtoeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I know, so many millions of Cubans leaving everyday too! It must really get up your noses knowing a tiny country has withstood right wing amercan imperialism (has it escaped you that Batista, a military dictator was backed by the US durng the Cuban revolution?) and over 70 assassination attempts on its president for the last 50 years. A tiny country that has a better health system and a more succeful literacy rate than any other caribbean country, and one that puts the US to shame.

                  Maybe you two are confusing your own capitalist ideals and assuming everyone wants the same as you which appears to be a desire to gather up material goods and build your own fortress to keep lesser beings away from you?

          3. I am DB Cooper profile image68
            I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I think you've summed up the anti-immigration position well and exposed its hypocrisy.

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, but Flightkeeper really did have a good answer smile

          4. habee profile image91
            habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I had an ancestor on the Mayflower, too - John Cooke. Some of my other ancestors were already here when the Mayflower landed - they were Cheyenne.

            I'm all for LEGAL immigration - but not ILLEGAL immigration.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
              Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              The Mayflower was full of illegal immigrants.

              1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
                Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                another example of why "illegal immigrants" is a nonsense term.

                1- how can it be illegal to move 20 feet north, or 20 feet south.

                2- what the heck is an immigrant anyway? Just some guy trying to find a better life elsewhere, and that place just HAPPENS to be called by a different name.

                It's nonsense

      2. 0
        Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        If someone was coming at you with a knife and you had a gun, please don't say you wouldn't shoot them.

        1. Pcunix profile image90
          Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Don't look now, but something just flew right over your head.

          1. 0
            Deborah Sextonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, you don't know how to respond truthfully so you write nothing.

        2. Sylvie Strong profile image61
          Sylvie Strongposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          What he would do is rather irrelevant to what standards we apply to our police officers.

    2. lady_love158 profile image60
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Does it matter? As long as they vote democrat after they get amnesty.

      Under Obama you have to prove you have health insurance, but you don't have to prove you're a citizen! Only in the democrats America!

      1. pisean282311 profile image57
        pisean282311posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        lol blame everything on obama?

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          He directly instigates this type of stuff.

      2. Flightkeeper profile image80
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hopefully their reign will be quite short, it certainly wasn't sweet.

      3. bgamall profile image86
        bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You must be one of the top 10 percent that controls 93 percent of the US assets. If you aren't your support of the Tea Party views is against your own personal interest.

        But there are a lot of brainwashed people in the world.

      4. I am DB Cooper profile image68
        I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Under Obama you have to prove you have health insurance, but you don't have to prove you're a citizen! Only in the democrats America!"

        The solution that Canada, France, the UK, and many other countries have found for this is to offer universal health care. You don't have to prove you have health insurance, and you don't have to prove you're a citizen. Believe it or not, but these countries have survived for a long time and have not been bankrupted by the cost of paying for health care for foreigners. This is the system Obama would favor if he could get it passed. The "everyone has to have health insurance" is a concession he made to Republicans in an attempt to get their support because they couldn't get behind a plan that didn't include kickbacks to their buddies in the health insurance industry.

        1. lady_love158 profile image60
          lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Everyone of those countries is in economic jepordy except perhaps Germany. France is now on strike because they want to raise the retirement age from 60 to 62. Greece has already had riots in the streets over their government's inability to deliver on their promises.

          One thing is certain, America isn't Europe, the federal government has no business dictating how the health of the states' citizens is addressed.

          1. Joe Badtoe profile image60
            Joe Badtoeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And has it escaped you that the crooked Ponzi schemes perpertrated by Madoff and his ilk or the Sub Prime con of selling mortgages to people that could never afford them contributed to debt mountain that spread across the west? Greed is endemic and banks have free reign to chase profit and leave people scattered in their wake. Greek, French and UK govts are no different to the US in that debt was kept hidden from view until it was obvious that managing this debt (brought on by this insatiable greed) was going to be very difficult without harming the people.

            You mention France and Greece but you completel fail to mention the reasons why their citizens are up in arms. It's not raising the reiirement age or failure to deliver promises but it is the gross mismanagement of the economy thanks to hapless politicians, financiers and business people plunging their country into debt. And to redress this governments punish the people who played no part in the crisis by making them work longer, cutting pensions(how many bankers/corporate leaders/senior politicians end their career with a small pension?), forcing people to work for longer, cutting services, slashing health budgets and removing help from the most vulnerable.

            As for your last statement I guess that just about sums up what you think of your fellow citizen.  A govt that has no business looking after the welfare of its people? Breathtaking.  Are you seriously happy to wash your hands of people who may die for no toher reason than because they're poor?

            The US has so many good things I admire but as long as I live I will never understand a country where so many citizens do not want a unviversal helathcare for all of its people. This defies all logic for me.

    3. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Are the French having those problems?  Wow.
      Well, what we're having is apparently (and I say apparently because I don't know all the facts yet) similar to the Rodney King incident, when civil rights activists meted out "justice" without considering all the details (Rodney King had resisted law enforcement officials several times and exhibited really erratic aggressive behavior, but the person who filmed the incident only caught the tail-end of it, and we didn't hear the audio of THAT, even, if I remember correctly; and THEN the people who rioted killed OTHER people in the name of "justice".)
      So....do these people even CARE to know the details, or are they just "jumping the gun" again because the guy's an immigrant?

      1. Flightkeeper profile image80
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I don't know if I'm allowed to post the story.  The link is below although it might be snipped sooner or later.

        http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me … ory?page=1

    4. Ralph Deeds profile image68
      Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Who attacked whom?

      Fox News--LAPD attacks media and demonstrators.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOeurc84Z8Y

      1. Flightkeeper profile image80
        Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ralph, this is a different matter, I know that it's all mixed up in your head but do try to stay up to date.

      2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
        Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "the marches were peaceful until this evening when the LAPD used force to break up the crowd"

        This sentence infuriates me. ... I suppose that marching to reform your government is illegal now? AND the police are allowed to break up the marches with force?

        That's disgusting.

        Reminds me of a "the offspring" song: "Beat all the n***ers!!! Beat whoever you see!! Don't need a reason!! WE'RE LAPD!!"

        Anyways, this is the reason why I'm against government: people voicing their opinions peacefully and get shot with rubber bullets.

    5. dutchman1951 profile image61
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think you are right, it seems in the cards for us. ; thanks for the link, was interesting.

    6. mythbuster profile image85
      mythbusterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I think that reacting to the problem NOW is part of the problem... as we're already seeing in the forum, the arguments about this event, already past, are developing into "camps" classification of race (from the OP "immigrant neighborhood"), statements of bigotry, snowballing our dislike or disdain for each other, the alleged "groups" and classes involved...

      I am somewhat disturbed by the use of the knife vs gun analogy because I know the person who posted has written material about peace and such on hubpages and is likely only be "responding" to information from an event that she might see as "wrong" or that never should have gone so far in the first place.

      I think that after bad events, especially violent ones, to argue in certain "reactive" ways or to respond with only the outcome in our vision often leads to "sustained" violence. That is, the violence never leaves our heads...so it will come about once more, soon, in another outlet or event - we perpetrate this stuff by our insistence in arguing about the right and wrong of maily WRONG events.

  2. 0
    Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago

    Thanks!

  3. Daniel Carter profile image90
    Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago

    Anyone drunk and flashing a knife in front of a policeman is first and foremost, an idiot. Being drunk is no excuse for carrying a weapon and flashing it around.

    Has nothing to do with race. It's about a pathetically stupid behavior.

    In regard to linking this to the race/immigration issue, any excuse will do, I guess.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image80
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It has to do with a large immigrant population who thinks they can cause a riot and attack a police station because they think Jamenes was killed unnecessarily without thinking about the cops who were being threatened.  The weird thing about it is that someone called the cops because the guy was threatening people with the switchblade and yet they turn on the cops who were trying to help.  That doesn't sound unreasonable to you?

      1. Daniel Carter profile image90
        Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Although the two may be related in perception of some people's minds, the incidents themselves are not. Otherwise the police would have used a far different tactic in protecting themselves and the public.

        Stupidity is as stupidity does. I'm sorry that Jimenez lost his life, but it was his own irresponsibility in his pathetic choices. It wasn't that he was latino, it was because he chose to get drunk and flash a knife, threatening the public and police.

        1. Flightkeeper profile image80
          Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Daniel, I agree with you but that community doesn't which is why they attacked the police station.

          1. Daniel Carter profile image90
            Daniel Carterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            And I agree with your observation, which is why the media and everyone else needs to reinforce how bad their perception is of this very sad situation. It may not change their minds now, but it could influence for the better other possible scenarios as they may arise.

            1. bgamall profile image86
              bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              The community doesn't trust the police. If they did there wouldn't be a riot. No doubt, LA police are understaffed and overworked. Of course the Tea Party wants less law inforcement and complains about their pay. The Tea Party hates teachers too.

              Sharron Angle thinks social security is welfare. The Tea Party people are fruitcakes.

    2. Pcunix profile image90
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yes.

      And, unfortunately, police are often ill-trained and badly supervised.   Put a young kid in a difficult situation for the first time and it is all too easy for him or her to overreact.  I am not saying that happened here, but it easily could be part of the story.

      Of course if that young officer is also one whose mind has been filled with anti-immigrant "opinions"  by Tea Party folks and others, it just makes it worse.

      1. Jim Hunter profile image61
        Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "And, unfortunately, police are often ill-trained and badly supervised.   Put a young kid in a difficult situation for the first time and it is all too easy for him or her to overreact.  I am not saying that happened here, but it easily could be part of the story."

        You're not saying it happened here but you want us to be aware that its a possibility that it could have?

        It could also be a possibility that the officer is well trained and supervised and did exactly what he was trained to do.

        Right?

  4. mikelong profile image81
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Brenda....have you seen what happened to Rodney King?

    I've seen the whole video countless times.....and in each case officers are blatanly abusing their power....  They could have killed King....and being under the influence or driving irratically does not justify this type of behavior...

    To then use "immigrant" as a synonym for "undocumented immigrant", as Lady Love did, is both reckless and ridiculous.....

    Until the facts come out in this specific case, I will refrain from commenting further....

    I have had too many experiences with law enforcement who simply make things up, and who lie blatanlty on police reports.....

    Did he come after the officers with a knife, or is that just what they wanted you to see?

    We shall find out....

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I remember seeing on tv what happened to Rodney King, yes, but it was of course just the last few minutes or seconds of the video that was shown, and like I said, I don't think there was audio with it, so I dunno what kind of verbal debate was going on.

      But no matter what, it didn't sanction the riots that happened after the unwanted verdict was brought.   This was, from what I can tell, a situation where the rioters not only killed and maimed innocent people, but it was used to push for black power politically, and forced the courts to render a different verdict, did it not?


      This case here, yes, we'll see.
      Maybe the police couldn't get close enough to the perp to taser him; maybe he was threatening the lives of others besides the police......

  5. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    The rampart polce station is in the heart of a heavily Hispanic neighborhood. Please read "Hispanic" here. That does not necessarily mean immigrant. Community relations with the police have been strained for years and about ten years ago there was a big scandal involving Rampart and bad policing. Since that time there has been an effort to place Hispanic officers in the station. You may notice that the three officers involved are themselves Hispanic.
    There is always an issue over what level of force is appropriate. It may be argued that the use of deadly force against a knife is inappropriate, they should have maimed, not killed. I hesitate to judge because as yet I don't know enough but I'm close enough to the streets here in L.A. that I will find out and may even post on it.
    All I can say at this time is that the community has not had a good relationship with this station and, rightly or wrongly, this was the spark that started a flame.

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Why would there be an effort to place specifically Hispanic officers there?  That sounds like they're "racially-profiling" a group of people who aren't Hispanic.

  6. mikelong profile image81
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Brenda...

    The Riots in L.A. were triggered by the beating of Rodney King....

    But that was not the cause....

    Mike Davis, the author of City of Quartz, wrote a great article about the stresses and strains in L.A. that busted through the surface for those three days....

    There are reasons....you may not like them...but there are valid reasons for why these riots broke out....  And until we cut to the root of these issues, we will continue to have problems...

    Remember....it wasn't the beating that triggered the riots....it was the fact that the officers responsible moved their trials to Simi Valley (which is mostly white, and has a large police population) and they were acquitted......

    The lack of equal justice can cause great pain.....do you not agree?

    1. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No matter what, the riots cannot be justified!  EVERY criminal trial has an option for an appeal process, correct?   Sometimes we all have to wait for justice to be done.  Instead, those rioters used vengeance, and set the stage for vengeance to be a common tactic these days!

      People were killed or maimed in those riots.  Yes, there might've be REASONS, but not EXCUSES.     Those who committed the crimes were, from what I read, also brought to justice, but that didn't make it right in the first place, it didn't bring back those innocent people who were killed etc..

      1. bgamall profile image86
        bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Each person has an idea of what is just in their own minds. The community doesn't trust the police and the police are understaffed and the Tea Party wants even fewer of them.

  7. wildorangeflower profile image57
    wildorangeflowerposted 6 years ago

    We all need to survive decently and we gotta share, what happened to justice of caring and we are all becoming selfish.

    1. Pcunix profile image90
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Conservatives are selfish - or the rich ones are.  The poor ones are just led by the nose and believe every lie the rich tell them.  They don't have enough to be selfish - but they don't have enough knowledge to see how they are being duped.

      Like Jim.  Not rich, he says.   But he wants to be, I bet, and he worships those who are and listens to every lie that falls from their lips.

      1. wildorangeflower profile image57
        wildorangeflowerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Socialized taxation will work best, tax the rich, that is the way to go.

      2. lady_love158 profile image60
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah? How much do you make? How about you putting your money where your mouth is? How about Obama giving up the bulk of his 5 million and living on only 250,000? How about Al Gore giving up his houses and cutting his carbon footprint "for the good of society"?

        Progressive liberals are the biggest hypocrites on the planet! They simply want to manage everybody elses' wealth while keeping their own!

        1. bgamall profile image86
          bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          No, 10 percent control 93 percent of the assets. They can afford it and society has an absolute right to tax the wealthy. Even Reagan left the rate for the wealthy at a much higher level than for others. Even Reagan realized that the rich had a bigger responsibility. Tell us, Lady Love, are you in the top 10 percent? If you aren't you are brainwashed. And you are campaigning against your own self interest, the interest of mainstreet, and the interest of society as a whole.

          1. Anna Marie Bowman profile image92
            Anna Marie Bowmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I love this argument.  If you are conservative, but not wealthy, you must be brainwashed.  If you are conservative and a female, you must be brainwashed, etc, etc, etc.  I am not wealthy, I am not brainwashed and I am a conservative female!  I support the rights of hard working Americans, small businesses, and smaller government, lower government spending, lower taxes for everyone.  We would all have much lower taxes if so much money wasn't being shelled out due to illegal immigration.

            1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
              Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              There are many such myths about illegal immigration.

              http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2010/ … _west.aspx

            2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
              Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              illegal immigration, once again, is a nonsense term. Just because someone moves 20 miles north to live a better life does NOT in anyway change living conditions for people (at least, not in a sense that could truly ruin people's lives).

              Think about it - if I move from Ohio to California, and get a job as (whatever), then i put someone else out of work, supposedly. But for whatever reason, no one gets mad at me.  If, instead, I were to just go on welfare, people would probably be mad at me, but not nearly as much as if some other person, who happened to be born on some chunk of land called "Mexico".

              We're all immigrants from the great beyond. Every time a baby is born, someone will eventually be competing with that child for a job.

              The term "illegal alien" is nonsense.

              1. Sylvie Strong profile image61
                Sylvie Strongposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                But there are so many would-be latrine cleaners and dish washers that are  out of jobs as a result of illegal immigration.  Perhaps you are just better situated than them.

                1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
                  Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  it's not a matter of "me being better situated than someone else". That's a complete cop-out response.

                  I said "we're all immigrants from the great beyond"... then you said, basically, "you're just saying that cuz you're rich".

                  I think that's all i have to say.

                  1. Sylvie Strong profile image61
                    Sylvie Strongposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    I think you misunderstood my post.  I was making fun of people that think that illegal immigrants are going to take away their jobs.

            3. Sylvie Strong profile image61
              Sylvie Strongposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Perhaps you are just looking for a scapegoat.  If illegal immigration provided us with economic benefits, would you be in favor of it?

              1. Mark Knowles profile image59
                Mark Knowlesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                LOL - These guys are soo funny. America was built on slave labor. From the first colony onwards. Illegal immigrants are the latest incarnation. Without them, the economy would collapse completely. Imagine if a fruit picker was paid $40 per hour. McDonald's junkburgers at $20 each lol

                You could get rid of them all in a week and "deal with the issue that is causing taxed to increase." I can tell you exactly where all the illegal immigrants are on a given day. Look for the lowest paid jobs in the state - there they are. 500 acre farms that have 6 people on the books? lol

                Dear me.

                1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
                  Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  slave labor was only economical because of federal subsidies: the fugitive slave act and other horrendously abusive government laws made slave ownership feasible.

                  When a slave runs away, hunting him down and recapturing him, AND then proving that he's not a freedman -- all of this is part of the "cost" of owning a slave.

                  The slave acts all made it cheaper to own slaves than it normally would have been.

  8. TMMason profile image74
    TMMasonposted 6 years ago

    Round'em up... ship'em out.

    I would sweep the entire city for illegals and toss 'em back over the border. Mexico is a failed state, narcos will run it soon, no sense in wasting our money good after bad in supporting their currution.

    Militarize the borders, cease the flow of all crime and illegals, then chuk'em quick as we can find em nation-wide.

    1. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Where was everyone BEFORE they were born? Were they in the US?

      ... no?

      Then we're all immigrants from some sort of "the great beyond".  And each one of us has pushed someone else out of a job -- that's how economics works.

      It's nonsense to think that "because I came out of my mother on this chunk of land, I'm free to move about the world looking for better opportunities than people who were born over on that chunk of land".

      Nonsense on stilts, I might demand.

  9. wildorangeflower profile image57
    wildorangeflowerposted 6 years ago

    This overall concept of choice in health will not work, there are lots of downside, but universal health is better, yet so far. We have more choices yes here in the US, but then look at AUS, UK etc., health care is almost universal.

  10. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    Must not have been much of a riot…  Didn’t even make the headlines (yet).

  11. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago

    Point a lethal weapon at a police officer - you will die.  This man must have been suicidal.  It's a sad incident and it should be investigated, but it seems pretty clear the cop did what he was supposed to do.

    1. Kidgas profile image78
      Kidgasposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Although I wasn't there, I wonder if a Taser might have been a viable option.  Of course just second guessing now.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
        Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        It may have been had one been available.  These were bicycle cops who generally do not carry non-lethal weapons.  I'm not sure whether a TASER would have been used anyway.  I've seen video footage of attackers continuing after being tased.

        1. Kidgas profile image78
          Kidgasposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks, Ron.

  12. mythbuster profile image85
    mythbusterposted 6 years ago

    "The area where this incident happened is an immigrant neighborhood."

    Bigotry in this sentence.

    1. Jim Hunter profile image61
      Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Or accuracy.

      1. mythbuster profile image85
        mythbusterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        How about misinterpretation?

    2. TMMason profile image74
      TMMasonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It is the reason it isn't the headlines.

      God forbid the public see this in the middle of illegal immigration debates.

  13. Pcunix profile image90
    Pcunixposted 6 years ago

    As fun as it is parrying the lies of the boot licking wage slaves, I have a book I have to go read.  That's part of the life style of the "wealthy" middle class - we read books when we aren't jet setting off to foreign lands smile

    See you all later.

    1. Flightkeeper profile image80
      Flightkeeperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Fly, fly to the land of make believe Pcunix.

  14. RFox profile image81
    RFoxposted 6 years ago

    Okay....maybe it's just me...but in this situation you have:

    Three trained police officers with guns drawn and a drunk guy waving a knife.

    Now if the drunk guy had a gun I can understand the officers shooting to kill...but he didn't. He had a knife and was drunk.

    Why did they not shoot him in the leg or the arm or one of the other many non lethal parts of someone's body?

    I mean, we do train police officers in how to handle and shoot a weapon effectively...do not we not?

    We do train officers in how to disarm an assailant don't we?

    The officer who fired was a 13 year veteran not some frightened rookie. So why the deadly force?

    Again, this was a situation with THREE armed officers and ONE drunk, knife wielding assailant.

    Now, the drunk guy was obviously breaking the law, threatening people's safety and a danger to himself and others. He needed to be subdued and arrested but why such immediate use of deadly force?

    After all the police credo is supposed to be "To serve and protect". They are not military, they are police. Deadly force is supposed to be a last resort not a first line of defense.

    Just sayin....

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
      Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Have YOU ever tried to shoot a knife-wielding, moving attacker in the leg?  A knife is a deadly weapon.

      We ask police officers to risk their lives daily, we should not require that they do so recklessly.

      1. Anna Marie Bowman profile image92
        Anna Marie Bowmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ron is right.  In fact, police are trained to aim for the trunk (abdomen area) of a person.  It is the largest, and easiest target, and often times, the assailant will survive the shooting.  Attempting to shoot a moving target in the leg is difficult.  They don't aim for the head, and shooting someone in the hand may seem easy in the movies, but it just isn't.

      2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
        Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        if someone is coming at me with a knife, and i have a gun...

        ... then that idiot is most likely going to die. No qualms there.

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image61
          Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          If the officers had a way to disarm him without shooting him or recklessly endangering their own safety, I  believe they would have done so.

  15. Anna Marie Bowman profile image92
    Anna Marie Bowmanposted 6 years ago

    This is all ridiculous!  First off, if someone is drunk, charging at me with a bloody knife, and after telling them to drop it, they don't...I am well within my rights to defend myself, no matter what race they are.  It's called self defense.  The police were doing their jobs.  It isn't a matter of race.  The officer who fired the shots was Hispanic!!!  As far as the immigration issue goes, my family came over here around the turn of the century.  They came through legally.  Got documented, got their citizenship LEGALLY, learned English, didn't demand special treatment, worked hard every day, and were proud to call themselves American.

    1. Pcunix profile image90
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, it depends on the state.  In some places, if you coud get away from the person, you are required to take that action, not defend yourself.

      Obviously it's a bit different for a police officer.

      1. Anna Marie Bowman profile image92
        Anna Marie Bowmanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I am short, I do not run fast, I really don't want to be stabbed in the back by a drunken, knife-wielding person.  I would stand and defend myself.  I wouldn't imagine a court anywhere in the US convicting me of anything, except for maybe California, where all the nutjobs seem to end up.

        1. Pcunix profile image90
          Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I think those arguments would convince me that you had no choice.

  16. 0
    cosetteposted 6 years ago

    oh, i'm not advocating riots or violence. just answering the OP's question.

  17. iantoPF profile image86
    iantoPFposted 6 years ago

    This post has gone on some weird tangents. perhaps a little background may help.
    The part of L.A. referred to is familiar to those of you who saw the movie "Volcano" You may recall a park, Mcarthur Park, with a large lake in the middle that in the movie started boiling. That is part of the Westlake area where the riots took place. It is a *Hispanic* area. not an immigrant area.
    I am an immigrant. I came here from Wales 20 years ago. I am a Welsh/American. My children are born and raised here, they are Americans. This issue is not about immigration though there are plenty of interests who would like to make it one. This is about the poor relations the police have had with this community for many years. The LAPD have made efforts to address the problem but 3 years ago there was a cinqo de mayo parade in this neighborhood that erupted in violence and even TV cameramen got beaten by police.
    I'm not putting blame here, I know people on both sides of the fence but just as the Black community of South Central L.A. was ready to blow up over Rodney King, The Hispanic communities are ready to blow up over real or perceived injustice.

    1. bgamall profile image86
      bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I saw that film of the beatings. The LA police chief had to apologize. The police were acting like bozos. But it wasn't funny.

  18. reed3915 profile image59
    reed3915posted 6 years ago

    Perhaps you don't understand the definition of "Legal or Illegal".  It is the reason for the term when applied to someone from another country who did not walk in through the front door but instead chose to sneak in like a criminal does when he trespasses.  Every country has borders and every country has laws, it does not matter the reasons you came through the back door, you cannot break our laws, period!  If you break our laws your title is Illegal Alien because you are not an American citizen.  This is not nonsense it makes perfect sense.  Not all who sneak in were criminals before they crossed illegally, however, it does not make you any less an illegal because you were law abiding before, you broke our countries laws and that is the issue.  Were our countries history different on the flip side they prospered and had jobs, they would be just as harsh if not more so to keep us out, so don't kid yourself, the impact on all our lives with undocumented, some violent criminals, most hard working is no less a threat on all our resources and all our lives.  My ancestors went through the proper immigration procedure to become an American, loyal to America they gave up allegiance to former country, ask any legal immigrant Mexican if he is loyal to USA only or if he has a dual citizenship!
    Most are dual and equal number do not want citizenship, just the visa to work.  THis is main reason they sneak across because they don't plan on staying so they do not want to spend time and money to come legally.  Sorry this is so long, but check it for yourself, ask both legal & illegals they will tell you.

    1. Sylvie Strong profile image61
      Sylvie Strongposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Please get a good vocational education so that illegal immigrants don't take away the only jobs you are qualified for.  God bless.

    2. Evan G Rogers profile image81
      Evan G Rogersposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      just because "every country has laws" doesn't make it right.

      Why am I allowed to move around looking for a better life, but that guy can't?

      It's nonsense.

    3. bgamall profile image86
      bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      What is your point?

      1. bgamall profile image86
        bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry that was directed toward Reed.

  19. mikelong profile image81
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    The issue is that undocumented immigration does provide benefits...in many different ways.

    While there are private corporations, like the L.A. company recently caught, and individuals who make a fortune from smuggling people into the country..  In the case I mention, this refers to 400 or so people brought from Thailand to work on Hawaiian fields...promised good jobs and wages by Americans recruiting them from abroad...  But when the new migrants arrived, their papers were taken, and they (as often is the case) were forced to live in a veritable sweatshop-prison, that otherwise looked like an ordinary middle-class town in an overall "Americana" street...

    These people were not collecting welfare, or public funds...and therefore not contributing to local, statewide, or national debt.

    I can cite other cases of this type of abuse going on here in Los Angeles, the largest sweatshop city in the nation...

  20. 0
    cosetteposted 6 years ago



    i don't think race in this case was a factor, since the officers appeared to all be hispanic. what happened to Rodney King was definitely racist though.




    i agree!


    Evan, what is nonsensical about the term "illegal immigrant"?

    Immigrant: a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to permanently settle there.

    Illegal: Prohibited by law. Prohibited by official rules.

    http://politicalcircus.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/mexican-border-illegal.jpg
    Illegal Immingrant

    nonsense? helloooo...what is so wrong about asking outsiders to respect our laws and come in through proper channels, hm?

    and whoever said our borders are secure needs to have their head examined.

    so, where does it stop? how many illegal immigrants do we let in? all of them? seriously, MILLIONS and MILLIONS? so we can have cheap hamburgers?

    oh boy... roll

    1. bgamall profile image86
      bgamallposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Arizona has a very low crime rate. It is safer to live in Phoenix than in NYC.

  21. mikelong profile image81
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Arizona is the loser ultimately...  Many apartment owners, store operators, and others have lost business. Businesses have closed.

    For the amount of tax dollars that undocumented and those who were afraid/upset at being potentially targeted, I think Arizona is going to fall on hard times...

    Yet, I will argue here that I believe that "undocumented' will still exist in Arizona....  But they will be of the type who are confined to their locations....working in sweatshops and the like....those who did not simply "jump a fence"....but those found confined to a house in Alhambra California, and those working on plantations in Hawaii...brought in by American recruiters.....lied to...  But they won't be on the street to be seen or "profiled"........

    What of prostitution?  Undocumented women smuggled into the country from Russia, Mexico and elsewhere won't be walking the streets.........what about the brothels?

    Hard to profile and report what isn't seen openly...

 
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