jump to last post 1-11 of 11 discussions (46 posts)

Something to argue about.

  1. Fenixfan profile image90
    Fenixfanposted 6 years ago

    Our Nation was founded on the principles and beliefs of the Bible. That's right, the King James Bible. At what point did we get lost? How could our nation go from all Christian to seemingly divided in half in a mere 235 years? If we look back at all the presidents, there has only been one who did not believe in the scripture. So many past presidents said things like, We must always make decisions based on the Bible. Why do you think we have strayed so far?

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I seriously wish you "christian" people would get your story straight.

      AMERICA was NOT founded on "christian" beliefs. So please.
      There were plenty of people who had religious views and platforms for their views. However, the "King James Bible" was certainly not a principle for the foundation of America.
      Actually, the problem resides in the number of so-called "christians" and other religious(mystic) folk who are ruining things. They are the "majority"? And, the "majority" has done nothing but screw things up.
      Because NOT EVERYONE WAS CHRISTIAN! Duh!

      What about those who claim to be Christian, but don't follow Christian teachings?

      Do you count them as being Christian? What about yourself? Are you claiming to be "Christian"? Yet, you demeanor says that you don't follow "Christian" teachings either.
      This statement would be incorrect, simply because from the fact that TWO Presidents were actually "atheist".
      Never make decisions based on out dated writings. It isn't productive.

      1. tony0724 profile image60
        tony0724posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You are wrong on every point !

        1. Cagsil profile image59
          Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          And how so Tony? Please spread some of your enlightening news?

          There was nothing wrong in my statement. How you understand things is not my fault. I cannot be helped if you have a skewed view. I can only help correct it, when it is expressed.

      2. kids-toy-box profile image73
        kids-toy-boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I agree Casgil...definitely not created on  literal interpretations of the Bible but the U.S was founed on principles-one of the most significant priciples unique to 'Christianity' being  'Man is created in the Image of God' hence the U.S constitution states 'Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' .

        1. kids-toy-box profile image73
          kids-toy-boxposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          ..hapiness not property:)

    2. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nope, our nation was founded on money!  Even the pilgrims were expected to turn a profit as they were backed by financiers who intended to get more than their money back on the venture.

      Other settlements were for the purpose of staking a land claim or as a buffer zone against Spain and France!  Religious groups were just easily manipulated by the governments of these nations to settle the new lands.

      1. Jim Hunter profile image62
        Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        "Nope, our nation was founded on money!  Even the pilgrims were expected to turn a profit as they were backed by financiers who intended to get more than their money back on the venture."

        That was true then and its true today.

        You're ok with turning a profit aren't you Randy?

        "Other settlements were for the purpose of staking a land claim or as a buffer zone against Spain and France!  Religious groups were just easily manipulated by the governments of these nations to settle the new lands."

        Again true, its always easy to manipulate those who want freedom.

        And because they were manipulated we have freedom.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image94
          Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Nope, nothing against making a profit, Jim!  Just disproving the "America was founded on God bit which seems to get thrown around casually from time to time on these forums.

          I don't think the Native Americans looked at the colonists as being "heaven sent," especially with the diseases knocking off 3/4ths of them after coming into contact with god's chosen.

          1. Druid Dude profile image61
            Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Thomas Jefferson has been called the most secular of the founding fathers. A vist to the Jefferson Memorial in D.C. clarifies that. He was the most secular because the others were obviously SAINTS. Yes, the U.S. was founded on a faith in God and providence. The native americans were assimilated, mostly against their will, yes, but that does not change the fact of the founding of the U.S. The natives also were not adherents to the same god concept as the europeans. That too, was foisted upon them by "God Fearin' Christians" Evidently the christian god had it in for the great spirit.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image94
              Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I get it!  The Christian god approved of the murder and land theft, as well as, the spreading of diseases which decimated the men, women, and children of the New World! 

              I don't know, I think I would have liked the Great Spirit much better than the christian god also.  He doesn't seem as evil!

      2. kephrira profile image61
        kephriraposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I thought America was founded on the principle of not wanting to pay taxes. Isn't that why you kicked the British out in the first place?

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You refer to what was actually Taxation w/o representation. The colonies had taxes levied against them, while at the same time being denied representation in Parliament. We, of course, have representation in Congress. We, then, must vote change in.

        2. IntimatEvolution profile image82
          IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Golly!  A smart person who gets it. 

          I also just want to add that I think a blinded, American Evangelist in action; is just about the scariest disease known to man.

        3. Jim Hunter profile image62
          Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          It was a little more than taxation.

          They could tax but we couldn't have a say in what they did.

          We helped support the Crown and and fought their enemies, but just like everywhere else they went they ruled the roost.

          We took them down a few pegs and we used their traditional enemies to do it.

    3. Pcunix profile image88
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Sure. That's why religious belief was made compulsory to hold Federal office. That's why religious mottos were stampeed all our original coinage. That's why 'under God'  was right there in the Pledge.

      Oops.  None of those things are true.

      1. Haunty profile image85
        Hauntyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        America's motto is "In God We Trust." A fairly tame motto, if you ask me. Take Austria for example, "Austriae est imperare orbi universo" or "It is Austria's destiny to rule the world." Ahem

        1. Druid Dude profile image61
          Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Heil Schicklegruber!

        2. Pcunix profile image88
          Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          That motto didn't appear on our coinage until 1864.

          The original motto was "Liberty" - because that was what was important to the Founders.

          1. Haunty profile image85
            Hauntyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Good to know. Thank you.

          2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
            Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            No, there were originally three mottoes.

            "E Pluribus Unum," (Out of Many, One) "Annuit Coeptis," (He Approves [our] Undertakings) and "Novus Ordro Seclorum" ([a] New Order for the Ages).

            "Liberty" appeared on our coins, but it was never the official motto of the USA.

    4. IntimatEvolution profile image82
      IntimatEvolutionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The next New York Times headline should read:

      "Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin are Busted!"

      Tell me Fenixfan, what church did Thomas Jefferson pay alms too?  Adams?  Ben Franklin? May I suggest you read some of the many "factual" and great hubs that can help correct your apparent, yet, unfortunate educational mishap.

      Are you American?  You cannot be American.  No way can you be an American.  You should really try reading some real history.
      http://hubpages.com/search/include:hubs … ng+fathers
      http://hubpages.com/search/include:hubs … dependence

    5. dutchman1951 profile image59
      dutchman1951posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Our nation was not founded on the Bible. It was Founded on a belief that Mankind at Birth was already given alienable rights by God, and No King, Parliament, Religion, Pastor, or any other person could Grant rights that were already given to us, by God.

      They were proposing God before King, and that's why it was Considered revolutionary. In England they were persecuted by Religionists using their Interpretation of the Bible for control. They wanted different.

      The founding fathers did not Believe in a Government based on the Bible at all, but on Mans God given right to freedom's given him at Birth.

      They based the "Law" on the Bible, no stealing, no murder etc.. etc...

      But not the Government structure. Go back and look at the Federalist Papers, and the Biographies of some of the Founding fathers and you will see it.

      where we went wrong was on moral issues of Slavery, Money, Business and Commerce. Men wanting power and control over others.

      1. Pcunix profile image88
        Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Isn't that where we always go wrong?  That is a one sentence history of  mankind.

  2. Jim Hunter profile image62
    Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago

    "Never make decisions based on out dated writings. It isn't productive."

    Guess we have to quit relying on the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

    1. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How you came to that conclusion, I will never figure out.

      In no way, shape or form, what I said, can be related to the two documents you made reference. It sounds like you're mouthing off, before comprehending what was written. Knee-jerk reaction? hmm

      The U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence are NOT out-dated. And, for you to put them in a sentence that claims that was my intention is absurd. Not to mention, it shows what you represent. A distortionists view? Why? Who knows, but in the end, you're just a twister of words.

      1. Jim Hunter profile image62
        Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I apologize sincerely.

        I wasn't aware that once again you were being philosophical.

        Or whatever you call it.

    2. Pcunix profile image88
      Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Was the Bible designed to allow amendments?  Can we vote away parts of it if we get sufficient agreement?

      1. Haunty profile image85
        Hauntyposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        No, cos God wrote it and has veto on your amendments.

      2. Jim Hunter profile image62
        Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Don't know I never read it.

        1. Pcunix profile image88
          Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Wow. Never read the Bible and never watched Fox News.

          Have you read our Constitution?

          1. Jim Hunter profile image62
            Jim Hunterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I sure have.

            And I did watch FOX news to see what all the Hubbub was about.

            Nothing but reporting the news was going on.

            If you're asking if I watched the opinion shows then the answer is no.

            Opinion is not news.

            You understand that...Right?

            1. Pcunix profile image88
              Pcunixposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, I understand that. It is Fox that seems to have the difficulty in that area.

  3. frogdropping profile image86
    frogdroppingposted 6 years ago

    @ cags: Judging on the title of this thread - I'm wondering who's next up for a ban. Someone is bound to get across with something or other and cry 'mom!'.

    Don't go there. You know some folks won't listen. This kind of thread can become less about a conflict of opinion as it is about conflict.

  4. Haunty profile image85
    Hauntyposted 6 years ago

    Semi-Christians? Pseudo-Christians?

    I don't know.

  5. couturepopcafe profile image60
    couturepopcafeposted 6 years ago

    I always thought this country was founded because of a need to be free from imposed religion, to have freedom to believe as one chooses, to be free from the reign of kings and religious imposition.

    Constitution - broad pen, open to interpretation on a case by case basis, as current today as yesterday.

    Codified Law - not open to interpretation.  That's why we have appelate and supreme courts.  In case the lower courts get it wrong.

    The founders/signers of the D.of I. may have had a religion, but they were not founding a nation based on that religion.

    Regarding OP, we've strayed along with the rest of the world.  It's impossible to stay untouched.

  6. mega1 profile image80
    mega1posted 6 years ago

    Isn't this just another rigid religion thread masquerading as politics?  And hasn't this subject been breaded and fried numerous times already right here in HubPages?  It seems rather silly not to realize that a nation that welcomes people of all religions, races, creeds etc. will be a nation that embraces all religions and not just Christianity - if you want to live somewhere there are only Christians you will have to go live in another nation on another planet because you aren't gonna find it on Earth.  Earth evolved past superstitious god-based ideas, many have still to catch up.  If you need to have a god, have one, just don't try to inflict it on everyone else.

    1. mega1 profile image80
      mega1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      also - many people believe in a god - not everybody believes the way Christians do - and hey, what was Christianity before Christ?  what was it called then?  I believe, but I may be wrong, it was Judaism - the foundation for Christianity and the old testament that you Christians quote as if it were the only sliced bread on the table.  Hey, get over yourselves, there's a lot of good philosophy in your religion, but it is basically a philosophy with some superstitious mumble jumble about thoushall and thoushaltnots which may or may not be relevant to life these days.  If you've forgotten where your own god theories come from why should I let you try to run my political system?  Nope.  not gonna do it.

  7. tony0724 profile image60
    tony0724posted 6 years ago

    Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't our Declaration of Independence talk about inalienable rights being endowed on us by our creator ? Sounds like a pretty Christian concept to me !

    1. Druid Dude profile image61
      Druid Dudeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, and a good argument against atheism. No creator, no inalienable rights.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image94
      Randy Godwinposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I'm sure it does to you, like it would to anyone who believes in any other god or gods which have been invented by man for the last 10,000 years, or perhaps much longer.

      And because someone believed there was a creator a few hundred years ago, it doesn't mean there was!

  8. Mighty Mom profile image90
    Mighty Momposted 6 years ago

    I'm sorry. What are we supposed to be arguing about here?
    And what's happened to the OP?

    1. profile image0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      U DA BEST MUM

      lol  lol  lol

  9. BobbiRant profile image60
    BobbiRantposted 6 years ago

    Actually, in American history, America was put together using the Puritanical laws and views of religion (by the way, those Puritans weren't so 'pure') anyway, so most of our laws are based on those archaic Puritanical beliefs.  The Puritans thought they'd come to this New World and show King George 'how a religion should be run' and then return to England.  The Puritans did not bank on the idea that England would tell them to 'never return' so they were stuck here and WE are stuck with those outdated laws of Theirs.  Thanks a lot King George. It's in the history books.

  10. Kangaroo_Jase profile image82
    Kangaroo_Jaseposted 6 years ago

    OP Quote 'How could our nation go from all Christian to seemingly divided in half in a mere 235 years?' end quote.

    Huh? The USA divided into half of what, exactly? I am lost on this statement.

  11. Jeff Berndt profile image91
    Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago

    I haven't time to discuss in detail all of the things that are wrong with the original post, but it's been a long time since I've seen something that is so wrong on so many levels at once.

    Wow.

 
working